Interview with head of UCC Part II

Here’ s Part II of my interview with the Rev. John Thomas, who heads the United Church of Christ, a denomination that’s been deeply involved (willingly or not, for good or ill) in the presidential campaign of Sen. Barack Obama. Q: I read that UCC Trinity (Obama’s and Wright’s congregation) had sent something like 50 […]

Here’ s Part II of my interview with the Rev. John Thomas, who heads the United Church of Christ, a denomination that’s been deeply involved (willingly or not, for good or ill) in the presidential campaign of Sen. Barack Obama.

Q: I read that UCC Trinity (Obama’s and Wright’s congregation) had sent something like 50 or 60 members to seminary on scholarship. Is Trinity known for producing ministers?

A: Yes, that’s one of our congregations that takes most seriously the development of potential leaders and recruiting towards leadership in the church.


Q: How did Trinity come to be a UCC church? Is it a plant?

A: It’s always been a UCC church. It was started about 45 years ago. It had kinda a modest size membership for a number of years. Then when Rev. Wright arrived he shaped it around evangelical outreach and a vibrant worship life and it grew more and more rapidly.

Q: I read where the United Church of Christ is 91 percent white. How many predominantly black churches like Trinity are in the UCC?

A: I don’t know the exact number but it’s certainly well over a hundred, and even that is probably low.

Q: One of the things this controversy has exposed, it seems, is a lack of understanding on behalf of white Americans about what happens in black churches. Does that lack exist within your church as well?

A: I think this did reveal the fact that even in our denomination there is continued segregation at the worship hour. Many of our congregations have never had the experience of being in an African American congregation and so this would all kind of be foreign to them. The tone and style of worship would be sort of alien. It reminds us that we need to redouble our efforts in that area. The interesting thing is, that’s what Trinity does, it’s been a leader in hosting other, predominantly white, UCC churches. I don’t think there’s been a Sunday at Trinity where they don’t have guests from predominantly white churches.

Q: Did you talk to Sen. Obama before his speech last summer to ensure it wouldn’t get the UCC in hot water?


A: We had numerous conversations about that. The invitation was very clear that he was to talk about how his personal faith informs his public life. Obviously that means hearing about important issues of the day, such as poverty, health care, the war in Iraq. He really only referenced his campaign once in the entire speech. That may or may not have been appropriate but it was certainly not the dominant theme. As far as I’m concerned, he honored our invitation very well.

Q: What was your immediate reaction when he did reference his campaign?

A: My first reaction was: I hope he doesn’t go further with this. And he didn’t. There was a moment of anxiety, that this is not really what we wanted. But he quickly moved on and focused on other things.

Q: The church meeting at which Obama spoke was called “Synod in the City,” and there seemed to be a political tone to the entire meeting, not in the sense of Republican or Democrat, but definitely in the sense that people should get involved in politics. Did you and the other organizers find it hard to draw a sharp line between appropriate and inappropriate political activity?

A: Obviously politics deals with negotiations and national conversations about important public issues, and it’s probably impossible to draw a sharp line between politics and public advocacy. It’s easy to draw a sharp line between partisan politics and public advocacy on issues, and that’s what we did. That’s why I don’t feel like we’re in any jeopardy with the IRS investigation.

Q: I read where UCC pastor said excitement over the Obama campaign had drawn people to his pews. Has there been a discernible uptick in interest or membership nationally with the success of Obama electorally?

A: No, I don’t think so. There is sort of the natural excitement about having one of your members in such a prominent place, and the fact that there is media attention and the opportunity to tell your story is a very positive thing. People view Senator Obama as a good representative of the UCC legacy of being engaged in the great issues of the day and there’s a sense of pride in seeing someone carry that out. But I don’t think having a member run for president has been a motivating factor for anyone joining the church.


Q: The UCC has draw a lot of heat over the years for its progressive stance on slavery, women’s rights, and gay rights, to name a few issues. Do you think that will hurt Sen. Obama’s campaign?

A: I think there will be people who will try to hurt him with that, who will try to use the UCC stance on gay marriage or rights in that way. We’re probably not the safest church to belong to if you want to run a political campaign.

Q: I read where the UCC, at least the Congregationalist branch, used to be the church of the established class in America. Now the church seems to enjoy provoking the establishment.

A: We were the established church, that’s right. But we were also a strong dissenting church within English Protestantism. We’ve been a strong counter voice, a critical voice on abolition, women’s wrights, peace advocacy. That voice has always been a part of our life, and has become more dominant as the church increasingly becomes distant from the cultural establishment.

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