• David

    Hi Professor Safi, thank you for your reply, and again, I appreciate the space to engage with your ideas.

    You asked: “Are the Druze Muslims?”

    This question cannot be answered justly without acknowledging what Druze today actually think about it. You don’t do this at all. (Noting that Druze prefer to identify themselves as “People of Divine Unity” doesn’t really address this question; c.f. Catholic vs. Orthodox vs. Christian) Your comparison to Mormons more specifically focused on what other Christians think of Mormons, without mentioning that Mormons themselves identify as Christians. The clear implication is that whether or not the Druze are Muslims depends at least in part on the judgments of non-Druze.

    It is not polemical to object to this way of thinking.

    My position is simply that no one has the right to decide for others what the “basic minimum” of a faith is. Saying otherwise is the argument that is used to persecute the Ahmadiyya, and other minority sects around the world. Look at the Druze in Syria right now (where they are apparently legally defined as Muslims), suffering because they don’t fit in with some radicals’ idea of the “basic minimum.” They don’t deserve that, do they?

    It’s one thing to acknowledge a people’s basic identity claims (whatever they may be – as I said, many Druze do not identify as Muslim) and another thing to situate them in their historical and social contexts. Doing the first does not prevent one from doing the latter.

  • Larry

    So obviously George Clooney has mentioned how his life is in imminent danger because he is betrothed to Hot Lebanese Druze Lawyer Woman.

  • David

    He said he supported removing everyone’s nuclear weapons, and shifting away from the US-as-superpower model.

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  • Larry

    My in-laws have threatened worse and they are Buddhists. 🙂

  • I’m sure their threats are sanctioned by the Tripitaka.

  • John

    In Muslim majority countries its irrelevant if others can convert to your religion, since almost all the time the only folks who can convert are Muslim…And well, yea, thats literally a death sentence to leave Islam. So you wont gain Muslim converts anyway, since Islam will kill you for leaving. So Christians are basically a closed religion in the Middle East just like the Druze are [ofc a Druze can convert to Christianity but thats not alot of people to pick from].

  • badtooth

    i thought it was haram for muslim women to marry non-muslim men?

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  • Karen

    I believe you are correct. Not wanting to marry outside your culture and religion is wise. These differences are so huge and deep, it puts a gigantic additional strain on the marriage, along with the usual hardships of marriage. They rarely work out. Even though, I do not agree that if someone falls in love with someone outside their own culture and faith, they should be able to marry, without having to fear severe retribution.

    This is also not racist. The meaning of racist has been so altered that under the new understood definitions, everyone is racist. The reason for this in America is to hurt and vilify those who oppose liberal points of view. Liberals are pushing the view that all conservatives are racist, which is a racist view itself. This had made it so that racism doesn’t mean anything, since it is altered to mean anything the person using it wants. For instance, if one disagrees with the President’s policies, they are labeled as racist, because he is black. Thus trying to oppress political descent.

    As a young girl I was racially attacked for being too white with red hair. I was called names, spit on and made fun of. I was very hurt, but it helped me to learn to love myself and not pay attention to other cruel people. I realized that they were the ones with problems and I wasn’t going to let their problems become mine. So, I know that people don’t have to become bitter and angry about it. How people react to it is their own choice and responsibility.

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  • Nighthawk

    Hi Sleepless

    To be honest, your post makes non sense in regards to the criticism/view of David. You seem biased. Anyways I have to agree with David. The point is, while recapping historical contexts is all fine, it is not fine to on one hand say that people can identify them as they please but then saying, “as long as they fit the the basic minimum”. As defined by who? You? Me? Safi? Religion even basics can be interpreted in many ways. Muslims are not one big homogenous group. So such judgement is objectionable for obvious reasons. Because as David points out and as is well known throughout the world, minorities are persecuted for alling short of these narrow/subjective definitions/basic minimums. Nobody has the right to define what Islam is or is not as a minimum. Otherwise there wouldn’t be that many sects. At the end of the day, Druze or not, we all answer for ourselves. So how about we leave the identifying and speaking for the worlds second largest faith to its’ believers. That does not stand in the way of wikipedian articles, which do not rely on “truths” but on reliable sources – even if what these sources say is an outright lie or fabrication. Wikipedia is not the holy grail of the truth. So pointing out someones thinly veiled judgement of Druze as not being Muslims, is not polemical, but rather nessecary. Islam does not judge but Allah does. Not you, I, David or Dr Safi.

  • Shining Genji

    We get to use our own judgment regarding how others categorize themselves.

    I don’t much about the Druize religion, but as an atheist who was Mormon from age 11 to 15, i can say that there’s very good reason to doubt that Mormons really are Christians.

    not only am I well informed on this particular subject, i also, unlike many former Mormons, admire Mormons very much. however, I think that it’s a shame that they have to believe nonsense to lead such upright and admirable lives.

    As well, we have an absolute right to decide for ourselves if we accept the claim of some transgender people that they really are the opposite sex as their bodies. and we even have the right to believe that someone stays their birth sex after they undergo cosmetic surgery to make their bodies appear a different sex.

    we have no duty to simply take them at their word, even we believe that they are sincere.

    heck, think about this. what if you were gay and male and had a long-term male lover who suddenly told you that he was really straight?

    shouldn’t your own sexual experiences with him be enough to at a minimum give you quite reasonable doubts?

    but shouldn’t that cut the other way, regarding woman who has her husband tell her that he’s really gay?

    my only point is that we should be able to decide for ourselves.

    as well, Islam itself has rules about one can and can’t believe, and violating those rules, not believing in angels, the Koran or the Day of Judgment, for example, make one, according to Islam’s own rules, an apostate and therefore not a Muslim, even if one sincerely believes that one is still a Muslim.

    believing that Jesus was not really a human being, or that he was not also a god, also makes one not be a real Christian. you have to believe both of those things, among many other things, that Christ was both a human being and God.

    not accepting people as they see themselves is not an act of intolerance. treating them differently may be intolerant, but not accepting their concept of who they are not intolerance.

    but insisting that we have to accept others as they see themselves can easily slide into intolerance, intolerance toward people who don’t do it.

  • Shining Genji

    as well, David, you misread what he says about Mormons. he doesn’t express a judgment about whether they really are Christians. he only adduces the debate among Christians about there status as analogous to that of the debate about the status of the Druze among some Muslims.

  • AJ

    ‘racial fetishizing’ what planet are you living on? I have never read such an awful racist diatribe against ‘white men’. Colonialism and imperialism has existing since the dawn of ‘civilisation’. The white Europeans were just good at it, as incidentally were the first Arab Muslims who aggressively invaded what remained of the Roman Empire, North Africa and the Middle East, invading and imposing sharia law on Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Jains, Buddhists and Hindu’s. At least the Jews and Christians got to keep their religions albeit as second class citizens with few legal rights and having to pay a large tax. The Zoroastrians, Jains, Buddhists and Hindus had one option, convert or die.

  • AJ

    I’m a Christian who is legally married to a Muslim. It is 2014 not 1014.

  • AJ

    What you mean if the Sunni take Syria and commit genocide? Do you think this is a good thing?

  • AJ

    Maybe if the Sunni’s had stayed in Arabia when Muhammad died these problems wouldn’t exist at all.

  • Steven Hackbarth

    Thanks so much for that clarification concerning the Druze community’s objection to marrying outside the faith. I presume that is what the fuss is about with the Druze mom.
    Still not clear what Amal’s views are, and not clear that marrying outside the faith constitutes a “conversion,” when she remains a faithful Druze.

  • Hasan

    According to Islam, a Muslim man/woman can marry any non-Muslim man/woman without converting him/her to Islam. When a Muslim person marrying a non-Muslim person who is a Christian/Jew, the marriage is considered as regular marriage. In Islam, Christians and Jews are considered as the ‘people of books’ means followers of divine scriptures. If a Muslim person marry a non-Muslim person who is other then a Christian or Jew, the marriage will be considered as an irregular marriage. In irregular marriage the wife does not inherit properties of her diseased husband, but the offspring of that marriage will inherit their father’s property. Yasser Arafat, the PLO leader, who was a Muslim married Suha who is a Christian.

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  • hkt


  • beautydoll

    so what was the religion before Christianity invaded the land?

  • Laura Anne Brown

    A Muslim man may marry a Christian woman. A Muslim woman however can only marry another Muslim and is forbidden to marry anyone outside of Islam.

  • Laura Anne Brown

    It is haram; forbidden; you are right

  • Laura Anne Brown

    you are right it is haram, forbidden

  • EgyptianMuslim

    since when catholics and jews share the same culture and the same thought on 99% of issues ? looool , in fact jews and muslims share the culture and the same thought on 99% of issues but anyway this is not the case , the case is you just sound like a christian ZioNazi with ultra low IQ who just love to generalize and promote hatred > there are some christian terrorists base their action on their understanding of the bible they bomb hospitals kill doctors and police men and bomb buildings and attacking african americans and jews (hello oklahoma 95 , hello KKK , hello phineas priesthood hello british israelism hello aryan churches the list goes on ), so are we have the right to generalize all christians as terrorists ?! also there are some jewish terrorists base their actions on their understaning of the torah and the jewish bible and even they killed the prime minister of israel yitzhak rabin ( hello yigal amir hello kach hello JDL ) so are we have the right to generalize all the jews as terrorists ?! the same with hindus they have their terrorists too ( hello pujarat massacre ) also buddhists too ( hello mayanmar ) so are we have the right to generalize ?! ofcourse not , because we are not some low IQ bigoted idiots . get a life and squirt somewhere else max . lol .

  • EgyptianMuslim

    lol , so marrying a muslim is like marrying the devil ! , but marrying a christian terrorist like scott roeder ( the killer of doctor george tiller ) is like marrying an angel right ? lol also marrying the christian terrorist serial killer and bomber eric rudolph ( the homophobe olympic park bomber who belonged to a christofacist church) is like marrying an arch angel right ? lol oh but marrying a muslim any muslim like let us say the muslim doctor mehmet mustapha oz ( known as DR .OZ in his TV show ) is like marrying a devil , right ? lol , generalization is the weapon of the sick minded and weak personality disorder , get a life jimi , hope you can improve a confident character like james dean anyway lol low IQ bigot loser lol

  • EgyptianMuslim

    muslims were trying to save the persecuted minorities in Europe ( yes we were george bush of the past and the protectors of the human rights ) so we invaded your countries to save the jews , christian gnostics , pagans , atheists . back in the time the islamic empire was very liberal and religious diverse and sexually free too , atheists were free to make any critique toward islam and make debates with imams , the same fro jews and even satanists too , in Egypt rabbi moshe ben maimon wrote a book and make a critique of prophet muhammad called him ” mentally sick and angel gabriel was a hallucination ” and no one persecuted him in Egypt , and even if i submit to your theory about the response of the crusades was directed toward “imperialist muslims ” , so why the crusades killed gnostic christians ? pagans ? jews ? unitarians ? atheists ? in fact when we invaded eastern europe and balkan areas we saved the cathar gnostics of bosnia and the bogomil gnostics of bulgaria from your repeated massacres against them and when they saw how we protected them from your hands , many of them decided to convert to islam due to the flexibility of both islam and gnosticism and also to gain more power of the muslim empire , and now bosnian muslims are the great grandsons of the gnostic cathars also about 10% of bulgarians are muslims and they are the great grandsons of the bogomil gnostics … so any way even if we were violent imperialists and you launched your crusades against us so the jews were violent imperialists too ? the gnostics ? the pagans ? the cathars ? the bogomils ? the ablegensians ? the waldensians ? the atheists were violent imperialists too ?!!!! sorry your argument isn’t logical to me .
    and regarding your objection of the word submit to allah , ofcourse you are free to understand it the way you like and also free to accept or reject it , however yes the islamic mystical philosophy is based on submission for example if you are facing a hard situation with no solution , you only will have to solutions simply challenge it and charge your ego with much power and try to change the changeless or simply believe that it’s the will of allah and allah always doing good things for all people then we have to submit for allah and accept our destiny without any fear or regret and pass this situation with a peace in mind and a peace of heart , this is the meaning of submission this is the meaning of islam . and ofcourse you are free to accept it or reject it . cause you will go to heaven anyway . heaven and hell has nothing to do with what you shove in your mind or profess in dogma , heaven and hell is about doing good deeds and bad deeds toward others thats all . thanks bye .

  • EgyptianMuslim

    it’s just forbidden in some islamic schools of thought but that doesn’t means it’s forbidden in all islamic schools of thought , there are some muslim imams consider it halal for muslim women to marry non muslim men , even the daughters of prophet muhammad pbuh were engaged to abulahab’s sons and they were non muslims and prophet muhammad agreed on this marriage however their mother ( abulahab’s wife ) forced their sons to break up with the girls and prophet muhammad went sad . so from this story we know that it’s ok for muslim women to marry non muslim men if they are good , loving , caring men . thanks .

  • EgyptianMuslim

    it’s just forbidden in some islamic schools of thought but that doesn’t means it’s forbidden in all islamic schools of thought , there are some muslim imams consider it halal for muslim women to marry non muslim men ( like imam hasan al turabi of sudan and imam gamal al bana of Egypt and imam ludovic zahid of algeria/france and many others ) , even the daughters of prophet muhammad pbuh were engaged to abulahab’s sons and they were non muslims and prophet muhammad agreed on this marriage however their mother ( abulahab’s wife ) forced their sons to break up with the girls and prophet muhammad went sad . so from this story we know that it’s ok for muslim women to marry non muslim men if they are good , loving , caring men . thanks .

  • EgyptianMuslim

    lol christianity spread in north africa peacefully lol oh really ?! christians were a very minority in Egypt , most of us were neo platonists and pagan gnostics and we were persecuted by the church when the christian romans invaded Egypt . our wise men and women were massacred by priests and deacons , they even strangled one of our great neo platonist female philosopher hypatia by the orders of the Egyptian bishops and archbishop , and due to our very flexible gnostic and neo platonist beliefs we decided to calm the mad christians and join their childish faith and keep our mysteries at home , but when the arabs smashed the roman empire and invaded Egypt , we joined islam little by little because it’s more flexible than christianity then we mixed our mysteries into islam and give arise to the mystical islamic movements . while true christians remained christians and became a minority as they were originally a minority among us .

  • Isam

    The only way to screen muslim from none muslim is:
    to bear witness that there is NO GOD BUT ONE GOD AND PROPHET MOHAMED IS HIS MESSENGER.
    so, accordingly Druze are not muslims.

  • wajdy

    Good evening my brother, God keeps us Druze

  • wajdy

    hi I am a DRUZE ‘ what u wana know about us ???
    we not muslim’s

  • wajdy

    u right Ashley , I am a Druze , we r 2014 and can choose her partner 4 life

  • Jez

    Yes, because if she is a Muslim, he would *have* had to have become one to have married her.

    (I know, it happened to me marrying a Muslim woman).

    So, my guess is she isn’t a Muslim because he didn’t convert.

  • EgyptianMuslim

    hi wajdy , usually mystical philosophies aren’t dogmatic ones , so yes you can consider yourself not muslim , but i have druze muslim friends from lebanon nd they consider themselves muslims , also i’m NOT takfiri , so if someone consider himself/herself a muslim so who am i to call him not muslim ?! but ofcourse if you don’t consider yourself a muslim then the same goes for you ie ” who am i to call you a muslim ?! ” . anyway mystical philosophies vary in the grades of knowledge . by the way you don’t need to have a mosque to be a muslim ! my druze muslim friends believe in the five pillars of islam but with mystical interpretation , for example they told me that they believe in hajj but as an inner journey within and they believe in salat but through the spirit not the body and they believe in fasting but from evilness of heart not food and they told me that they believe in allah , quran and prophet muhammad and reincarnation , one of them told me that prophet muhammad was the reincarnation of david . so they consider themselves mystical muslims and i see nothing wrong in that , maybe there are some druze like you don’t consider themselves muslims and some not and thats fine but it means that not all druze agree on the matter , thank you bro wajdy .

  • Islamophobe

    I would like to add………………..Hitler was a Mudslim, too:)-. So were the Mylai US soldiers……so were the Israelis gunning down Ghazans………………Well, shit happens, blame a Muslim!

  • this is the problem with organised religion, all man made. lets celebrate the divinity within freely with no forced idealogues

  • joan smithers

    the point everyone is missing is that she’s transgender; George is obviously gay, so they make a perfect couple.

  • Surprised

    You make some interesting points. it’s no different than saying ‘ I’m christian but don’t believe in Jesus’.
    The moment you start making changes in a religion, then it’s your philosophy, don’t refer it back to Islam. Any sect/group claiming to be muslims but their belief contradict or differs to what’s in the Qur’an and the teachings of the prophet isn’t one regardless if you belief in the rest or not.
    Scholars might have opinions about a verdict/ruling as long as they have legitimate evidence, but this was never the case for the belief system.

  • joan smithers

    u r all missing one point; she is obviously transgendered and everyone knows clooney is gay.

  • Globo

    “she is intelligent and therefore on team reason. Thus an atheist.” – What an appallingly shallow series of fallacies. You clearly demonstrate that you are, indeed, not on team reason yourself.

  • trix

    And yeah. Druze are NOT muslims.

  • sam

    Legally married to a muslim woman while hating muslims and spewing lies…interesting.

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  • urt

    Druze is NOT MUSLIM nor a muslim branch. Another meaning for druze= to believe in god(one) and to respect all profits, which is monotheism. I am a Druze and we respect all religions and profits but we say that we are not muslims because we do not pray in Mohammad. WE do that to god. Amal is not a Druze because first of all her mom is muslim and her dad broke the pledged oath( to marry a Druze woman), which he is kicked out of the religious circle and cannot come in. So you can go ahead and say that she is Druze, but can’t say that Druze people are muslims. Druze practices are different than muslims way in all respect. No offense to all. By the way, muslims didnt make Druze …. Please research pple….

  • urt

    i think what your friends meant that they are muslim/Druze is that maybe one parent of theirs were muslims and one was druze. BUT there is not way that a 100% druze would say they are muslims. thats a misconception. being 1/2 druze doesn’t count as being a full one. it is complicated

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    we believe in QURAN which not a man made and we have Unwavering Faith in Allah

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  • Tom

    That the rest of the world is racist against Arabs.

  • Faruq

    When I first read this article, I was wondering if Mr. Clooney had to convert to Islam in order to marry her.
    I married a Malay Muslim woman and was told she couldn’t marry outside of Islam, and so I had to convert. So apparently what I was told isn’t exactly true?

  • Bartman

    What are you spewing? Members of the Church or Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are more Christian than any other church. Pick up the Book of Mormon and read it and see how it is centered around the coming of Christ to His other sheep. Go to the LDS Church for a couple of weeks and see what kind of real Christian life those people really lead. Look at their families and take note that they center their family teachings around the teachings of Christ. Learn that Mormons believe completely in the resurrection of Christ and the He has a body of flesh and bones today, not just a spirit. Quit being so ignorant of another religion when you know so little about it. Look at the LDS humanitarian efforts going on all over the world. I could go on and on with other Christian efforts but unless you search for yourself in the right places, you are only going to find garbage. Try gonig to mormon.org and search out some truths from there.

  • Reeshiez

    My thoughts exactly. The question “Are the Druze Muslim?” should be answered by trying to figure out whether the Druze think of themselves as Muslims. I’m trying to figure that out myself and still haven’t found an answer (different druze that I meet give me different answers.. not sure if they are worried that I will discriminate against them or something or if there are a variety of opinions within the druze community).

  • Druze religion founded at the Ismaeile time, but it has nothing to do with Islam.

    Druze don’t believe in the fundamental Islamic principle “fasting and prayer or fasting or Hajj or even faith in Muhammad as a messenger.”

    and even we don’t believe that Muhammad was a good man ! actually we believe that many philosopher like Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Akhenaten,are much more spiritual and have respectful position then all Islamic icons

    Saying Druze are Muslims is like saying Christian are Jews

    if you want to know more about Druze watch my FB page i will post many secrete things which few people know

  • angelique

    Clooney Is traitor to his family, to his fans and to all white people. He’s married to a muslim women.
    It’s embarrassing. He lost our respect!

  • Lori g

    Rami..that’s very interesting and makes sense. You broke down the distinction well so people that don’t know that history can understand it.

  • Warren Raymond

    My man Omid! What a tosser.

    If you want to know what kind of a Mustard Omid Safi is, google ‘Robert Spencer & Omid Safi”, and educate yourself.