ANALYSIS: Hobby Lobby beat the contraception mandate. Here’s why the nuns may not

Print More
The Little Sisters of the Poor organization was founded in the 1840s by Jeanne Jugan. Its members take four vows, those of chastity, poverty, obedience and hospitality.

Public domain image

The Little Sisters of the Poor organization was founded in the 1840s by Jeanne Jugan. Its members take four vows, those of chastity, poverty, obedience and hospitality.

Active RNS subscribers and members can view this content by logging-in here.

(RNS) The Health and Human Services Department has already offered an accommodation to faith-based nonprofits that allows them to sign a waiver giving a third-party administrator permission to take care of the birth control coverage.

  • Lles Nats

    It’s telling, how we all discuss and read about thinkers who obsess over what a gov will allow the to do, and won’t allow them to do to other “free” people.

    Such a mentality of total entrapment. Nevermind that we could all opt to just let people live, and not force them to accomodate to my choices. No, no. Republicans and dems alike need and cannot imagine a giant gov that they are not in control ofm. A giant overpowering gov is a given in the mind of both groups.

  • Daniel

    More BS from the fake “pro-life” crowd and another ruling by the numb-nut conservatives on the SCOTUS. Proof positive that Conservatives of today are terrible people. The people’s right to be free from religion is eroding. Now if you are an employee of a company you are subject to the mythological based ideologies of the owners of that company.

    So what if your employer was Christian Scientist and was against blood transfusions or the use of any medications?

    Supposedly this is about protecting life but Christian Republicans don’t care about life. I never heard a peep out of you hacks when we went and killed 200,000 innocent Iraqi civilians and 4500 US service men and women in a war based on lies. If Christians were consistent I’d be cool with them, but they are not.

    How are Republican Christians any different from crazy lunatic Islam? They both think everyone else should have to live under some old world made up rules about some god that someone made up a thousand years ago.

    I’m tired of the morons who vote for Republicans. This is no longer about the GOP leadership, it’s about the moronic and angry folks who pull the lever for Republicans every election. They are who is responsible for getting these terrible hacks on the most powerful court in our country.

    Republicans are great at telling women what they can do with their bodies and stirring up some angry racists, but that’s about it. Stop voting for Republicans America. Please!

  • Lles Nats

    “The people’s right to be free from religion is eroding”.

    Oh, you must have missed it. This last weekend all the major cities in america had dancing, naked gay people in thr streets. Most major civic leaders were in attendance. Not a single police officer was called to enforce any traditional rule or law regarding public obscenity or lewdness. So….yeah, I don’t think you were accurate enough in your statement to have a point.

  • The Great God Pan

    “Not a single police officer was called to enforce any traditional rule or law regarding public obscenity or lewdness.”

    Shouldn’t that make you happy? I thought you were against “giant, overpowering governments.”

  • Larry

    Lles must be in a much more fun city. Over in New York, there were no naked people anywhere to be found in the streets.

    The nuns are even more whiny than Hobby Lobby. They also have the disadvantage of appealing a negative decision that frankly had better arguments than the ones in the Hobby Lobby case.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    The Supreme Court has the habit of not only reading the U.S. Constitution to make its decisions (although sometimes it is hard to figure out their reasoning and that they really did consult that document).
    But they also don’t usually want to look foolish or appear bizarre.
    Now nothing appears more bizarre than whacking a bunch of old celibate nuns on reproductive issues while ignoring the First Amendment and giving more religious protection to business entities.
    I don’t think they want to look bizarre so I think they will find a way to extricate the nuns from Obama tyranny.

  • Jamesthe

    You don’t seem to understand anything at all about the decision.

    Congress passed a law called RFRA. It said that when the governemnt tries to force people to abandon their religious beliefs and force them to do something their religion says not to do, then the government must show that it has a compellling interest in doing so.

    Bill Clinton signed the law. Joe Biden sponsored the law.

    It passed with overwhelming support in both houses.

    So no, the supreme court is not doing this, Congress did this.

  • Jamesthe

    Go to youtube. Search for gay pride nude. You will be treated to a multitude of raunchy gay pride parades. It makes sense. Since sex is the only distinguishing feature of homosexuality,what else would their parade be about? You will be treated to nude people, almost nude people, people simulating sex acts or engaging in things that strongly suggest sex acts. People flashing other people, people in sado masochistic gear etc etc. IN some of the videos that don’t show nudity, you can tell they had to edit them so that they could show them on youtube.

  • “The key difference is that the Health and Human Services Department (HHS) has already offered an accommodation to faith-based nonprofits that allows them to sign a waiver giving a third-party administrator permission to take care of the birth control coverage, with no further involvement by the religious group”

    Requiring the signature of a waver giving a third-party permission to take care of birth control coverage, is forcing tacit agreement. not much different than requiring Christians to burn a speck of incense to a pagan image.

    “Viva Cristo Rey!!”

  • Larry

    Youtube is hardly a reliable source. You don’t necessarily know where or when the vids were taken or whether they are what they claim to depict.

    Its bullcrap stereotype slinging on his part since he was saying he saw it last weekend. Probably not.

    Considering NYC has one of the largest “out” populations and Gay Pride Week attracts tourists to the city from all parts, it would have been noticed by someone.

    Of course ignorant bigots fail to note that recently such events now have a host of events for children, since gay couples marrying and raising children is fast becoming more visible. I couldn’t pick up a local paper without seeing the announcements for the. Gay Pride events have taken a turn towards the conservative. Almost stately.

  • Larry

    RFRA should never have been applied to a corporation. It defies the very concept of incorporation. That was the mistake of the decision. A corporation logically cannot have religious beliefs. Certainly nothing imputed by its owner(s), even if closely held or family run.

    You talk of forcing people. You mean speak as if you mean actual live people, not legal fictional people like a corporation. RFRA was abused in this instance. A law which really meant to protect employees is being used to justify bullying by employers.

  • Larry

    They read it, but at least 4 justices find new and interesting ways to contort it in order to reach a desired conservative partisan result. The intellectual dishonesty which comes from Scalia, Alito, Roberts and Thomas is of a kind previously unseen since the late 19th Century.

  • Jimmy Chonga

    So, SCOTUS is basically asking non-profits like the Little Sisters to provide their own “prescription” for abortion, sterilization and BC, by REFERRING those services for their employ to a third party. Hmm, US Gov’t . . . don’t pick a fight you can’t possibly win. It’s been tried by the evil one from the beginning of time and, each time, without no cost to life and limb, he loses. Now, his legion of democrat party drones are poised to lose all, again. Pop the corn and watch as the Rightful King to the throne takes control and shoves this evil into oblivion.

  • Larry

    The nuns are given the opportunity not to make a decision for coverage, to not pay for contraception and let their employees make that choice for themselves.

    But being Christian nosybodies, the nuns want to have the right to dictate to their employees whether such options should even exist. Being a Christian means never respecting the choices other people make or understanding what privacy means.

  • Karen Rosa

    So where do your rules come from? They come from someone. Which philosophers, social scientists, or other thinkers contributed to your understanding of what is good, and true, and beautiful? Name them please. Certainly you know.

  • Don

    Your concept of freedom is pretty screwed up.
    1. You are free to work elsewhere if you don’t care for your employer.
    2. How do you equate coercing a private citizen into providing you a product against his will with “freedom”?
    3. Where did you get the idea that you have a “right to be free from religion” in your interactions with private citizens who have religious beliefs. Certainly not from the Constitution or from any aspect of American history.
    And as to your last statement, how is it that “Republicans” are “telling women what they can do with their bodies” in this instance?
    Your “arguments” are completely devoid of any intellectual coherence.

  • Martin Gran

    I personally agree with the HL judgement. But here is another solution…stop offering insurance across the board or have everyone work part time the way Walmart does and restaurants do. Push people to leave their religious believes and you will have only trouble.

  • caddie blue

    Daniel,,,get some mouthwash; you’re not going to influence anyone with your incoherent blustering.

  • Pamela

    “How are Republican Christians any different from crazy lunatic Islam?”

    Well, for one thing, they aren’t hacking people’s heads off or crucifying them. They aren’t raping wives and daughters in front of husbands/fathers when husbands and fathers can’t pay the jizya. They aren’t videotaping hacking off people’s hands. They aren’t flying planes into buildings. They aren’t imprisoning women for being married to non-Christians and forcing them to give birth while shackled to the floor as the woman awaits execution following lashings. They aren’t kidnapping hundreds of young girls to sell into slavery/forced marriages? Shall I go on? Moron….

  • Ron Goodman

    And it’s time to repeal it.

  • Terry Solie

    Solution: single-payer system eliminating employer involvement.

  • larry

    1. At will employment doesn’t mean a company can violate laws and regulations which affect it.

    2. A corporation is not a private citizen. (This is why the arguments for Hobby Lobby are so mind numbingly stupid)

    3. The first amendment and anti discrimination laws. Your religious beliefs are not an excuse to force others to act. You have no clue what religious freedom is. To Christians it is considered license to attack others and ignore laws.

  • larry

    That is only because nobody is giving them unfettered political power. Their beliefs are no different.

  • Maureen

    Well, than Catholic institutions will have to circle the wagons and only serve and employ faithful Catholics. I believe then they would be considered immune from this ‘mark of the beast.’ I see it as a win.

  • Maureen

    And an even easier way to deny coverage to people who oppose the liberal ideology, not to mention even swifter decisions from the death panels.
    It’s all about euthanasia, IMHO.

  • Maureen

    Perfect response, sir.

  • Pamela

    Who is forcing whom to do something? Wake up. It is the leftist thugs forcing religious people to do something, violate their consciences. People should not be forced to buy anything for other people, much less immoral drugs. Christians aren’t forcing anyone to do anything. We just want to be left alone to live our Faith. Buy your own contraceptives! No one is stopping anyone from using them. I don’t see the government forcing you to pay for my actual medications, you know, those things that people take for actual health reasons, not just stuff so they can sleaze around like animals.

    You leftists are immoral and irrational.

  • Pamela

    Like I said above; you leftists are immoral and irrational. Or in your case, maybe ignorant should be included. Pathetic…

  • Guest

    The goverment shouldn’t be in the business of telling people how to practiced their religion. HHS mandate has self-appointed and ordained itself a priest, penance, and absolution…a “papacy” of politics and intellectual atheism: “oh, poor nuns and religious organization you’re not sinning!”
    to advise, assist, fund, provide
    means of referral for the procurement of abortion and contraception (killing conceive embryos)…just sign a waiver and provide the funds allowing your employees to use your religious resources and vocations to hire a hit
    man…to implement the HHS
    mandate for you. That is so stupid…that like mandating the employers must offer and serve pork dinners to its employee(s). what’s wrong with lean white meat? Nothing unless your are jewish, muslim, or vegetarian organization. Religion freedom and the employee’s religious conscience need to be protected. Politics and political systems cannot be permitted to upsurp the theological foundations of
    faith. To do so would make our founding fathers and their constitution looney, leaving England was a waste of time because hundreds of years later america will have a self-appointed goverment as head of every church mandating discretions defining
    religion…to accept the flaws of HHS we would also have send the Queen Mother and fallen british brethern an apology…we americans was a wrong, rebellious colony and it just took us hundreds of years to realize it. So, how would we make amends by returning to commonwealth
    and becoming british
    anglicans with royal quartering any opposition and dictating the its interests as the conscience and beliefs of the
    people…being that said…I can’t see how any justice could sensibly ruled against the nuns…it would be balantly foolish…

  • Pingback: Interpreting Hobby Lobby |()

  • Larry

    That’s all well and good, but corporations are only people in the most tenuous legal sense. The overwhelming majority of arguments in favor of Hobby Lobby stupidly mistake the company for the individual owners. The distinction is real and material to the issues here.

    The idea of imputing religious belief to a corporation is beyond ridiculous. Even the Court could barely swallow what they were saying in this regard. So they made an arbitrary limitation that it only has to do with “closely held, family run corporations” as if such distinctions ever had real meaning when it comes to rules of incorporation and treatment under the law.

    What it comes down to is the choice to use birth control or even an abortion (which ACA does not mandate, way to continue an outright lie) lies solely in the hands of the person who wants the procedure. It is not up to an employer to make such decisions. Healthcare coverage is compensation for work rendered. It is not a gift, the care available has no business being subject to the arbitrary whims of an employer. It is a private manner.

    Christians obviously do not believe people should make their own decisions and always seem to use coercion to get their way. Since obviously they have little chance of influencing behavior by setting a good example to others.

    Religious freedom does not mean you get to dictate to other people nor does it consider faith to be so inviolate that any laws can be ignored if you say “God tells me to”.

  • Larry

    I am not the one who thinks God has invested them with the power to make decisions for everyone else. That is a delusion strictly among people like yourself.

  • Larry

    Your whole argument is based on omitting important points to make ignorant statements that really do not apply.

    Violate their conscience to coerce others into your religious views?
    Somehow that doesn’t fall under the free exercise of religion.

    As I said in my second point, a corporation is only a person in a limited sense. Ignoring that point is what makes your argument so stupid. The idea of imputing religious beliefs to a company flies in the face of what incorporation is for and means. It also reduces religious belief to an arbitrary stamp to something which exists purely as a pile of papers filed with a Department of State in the state of incorporation.

    An employer has no business delving into the private matters of how employees chose to utilize the health care compensation they earned working for the company. It is not an employer just paying it as a gift. It is not entirely subject to an employer’s whim. Insurance is government regulated and tightly controlled. If an employer does not want their workers to use birth control, tough luck. It is not their decision. An employer must respect the private decisions once the compensation is paid out.

    “Christians aren’t forcing anyone to do anything. We just want to be left alone to live our Faith”

    Liar. You want the ability to force people under your direct control to live according to your faith. Whether they want to or not. People like yourself only think they are moral. There is nothing moral about willful ignorance, dishonesty and extolling coercion. But that is what your God wants. Jeez.

  • karen

    Larry, have you never met a kind and loving Christian? None that have let you make your own decisions? All using only coercion to get their way? Your antipathy is so broad that it undermines your own idealogy.

    Insurance is called a benefit, not compensation. While tightly regulated, you do not get to call it compensation. It has no cash value to the employee.

  • Pingback: FFRF gets constitutional freedoms and the Founding Fathers wrong … again | Uncommon Descent()

  • Larry

    Not among those who feel they have a god given duty to make decisions for the lives of others.

    Certainly not among those who ignore arguments in favor of trying to paint an opposing view as some kind of personal affliction.

    The whole “atheists must be angry cranks” nonsense trotted out by flustered Christians is offensive, tiresome passive aggressive nonsense. Certainly not the words of a loving Christian. Merely those of a smug hostile person lost for a sensible response.

    Benefits are compensation for work. You only earn them as employees and as a condition of employment. It is not a gift. Calling it a benefit does not change its nature. Something an employee has to work to use. It’s not cash, but it is compensation. You really are ignorant of important facts.

    The entire pro HL argument is dependent on dishonest representations of facts, glaring omissions and not thinking very hard about a situation. If you work for a company and support this kind of action, you are fool undermining your own rights.

  • Pingback: Hobby Lobby beat the contraception mandate()

  • Pingback: Wheaton College gets a pass from Supreme Court on contraception mandate |()

  • Pingback: ANALYSIS: Hobby Lobby beat the contraception mandate. Here’s why the nuns may not | Broward County, Florida, USA()