Student who married same-sex partner expelled from Southwestern Christian University

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Christian Minard, right, married Kadyn Parks on March 17, 2014.

Photo courtesy Christian Minard

Christian Minard, right, married Kadyn Parks on March 17, 2014.

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(RNS) Christian Minard said she is aware that her relationship violates the covenant, but she is troubled at the inconsistent application of the rules, saying she believes she was singled out for being a married lesbian.

  • Rob B.

    The picture looks like a woman and a man to me. They shouldn’t have expelled her.

  • Lles Nats

    Private university.
    She went there knowing their policy.
    She violated the code of conduct she previously agreed to.

    Oh, and its a PRIVATE UNIVERSITY.

    I know you all are bleeding hearts for such a special and unique person, but you will get over it. And you cannot impose your views on a privately funded institution. As much as you hate their freedom to be religious.

  • Larry

    I blame the parents for wasting their tuition money by sending their gay children to private Christian colleges. I also blame the kids for not “coming out” to their parents when the time came to pick out schools. It could have saved a lot of headache for everyone involved. Its not like “staying in the closet” is a particularly sane course of action.

    Despite the desire of many to believe Christian institutions are capable of making rational unbiased decisions, that is simply not going to happen any time soon. People should know right from the start that Christian schools are going to be blatantly bigoted and hostile to gays. They are going to treat gays as the ultimate special case when it comes to their own rules of conduct. No need for pretense here. It is akin to trying to pretend you are white at a KKK convention.

    -A christian college is not going to turn your kids straight.
    -Private Christian universities are generally more expensive and less reputable than secular and most public universities.

  • Anne

    Ask yourself this – Is it more important in the eyes of God that she is a Christian or that she is a lesbian?
    It is my hope that every one who despises homosexuals and/or homosexuality comes to know one in their lives, especially if it is a family member.
    I know Christian personally. I hope she fights like hell and wins.

  • Joshua S Barry

    Sir did you read the story. No where does it say that she was in the closet to her family. No where did it say that she was attending this university to be converted to a straight woman. I know Christian personally as well, and she, along with myself, were one of the few out and proud gay people in our small country town of cashion. That being said the crime is not that she violated the covenant she signed it is the fact she is being singled out over her marriage to her partner. If they feel they need to enforce action on her then fine. But they also must enforce it on every student who breaks the agreement. Not pick and chose who to throw the book at.

  • life

    She was out to her parents. If you don’t know the facts probably shouldn’t talk!

  • Lles Nats

    Amazingly, I knew a guy from college who later had got married, had kids, and then later went public that he was gay. It was surprising, yes. The family split up but he does make a lot of effort to spend time with the kids.

    I only bring it up here because I have actually known one now for almost 15 years, and it confuses me even more when I weight it against the claims of “born this way”. I don’t understandhow he can be when I know and have observed many years of his life as hetero. Seems like he could choose that again if he wanted, since he previously did. No he and I don’t talk about my confusion. Its still very touchy and he has sorta drawn in to a new click now.

  • Atheist Max

    @Lles Nats,

    Yeah. The KKK is a private University, too.
    Congratulations for calling out morality wherever you see it 😛

  • Atheist Max

    @Lles Nats,

    How about “it is nobody else’s business”?

    Why doesn’t that ever work for Christians. Why can religious people just leave other people alone?

  • Larry

    I stand corrected. I was wrong. I made a poor assumption. I apologize.

    IMO, enrolling in the Christian school was an invitation for trouble. Christian universities are not noted for being remotely accepting of gay students. It is almost an absolute certainty that they will go out of their way to harm gay students and look for excuses for such conduct as being a private institution.

    “If they feel they need to enforce action on her then fine. But they also must enforce it on every student who breaks the agreement. Not pick and chose who to throw the book at”

    I agree with you.

    But I also acknowledge the kind of hypocritical contortions Christian institutions will perform to morals, ethics and rational thought when they want to engage in discriminatory behavior like this. It is almost an absolute certainty they would act this way.

    Although it would be nice if Christian institutions acted in a humane, fair, honest and ethical manner, I do not hold out the hope that they will do so.

  • Larry

    “I only bring it up here because I have actually known one now for almost 15 years, and it confuses me even more when I weight it against the claims of “born this way”.”

    Not at all. That person didn’t chose to be gay. That person just admitted to it after years of denial.

    Just evidence of the existence of “the closet” and the level of ostracism and pressure gay people put up with in order to gain acceptance with peers, family, religious groups. If that person was a baby boomer, there was even more reason to do so given legalized discrimination against them in the past.

  • Lles Nats

    I did not personally pry or interrogate him. He had a planned coming out event of sorts after a lenghty private discussion with his wife at the time. The rest of us found out through social media he posted.

  • Lles Nats

    That’s interesting because to me, the fact that he was married to a woman and previouslt fathered children makes the whole switch look like a choice. I imagine he could choose to remarry another woman and father more children if he so desired.

    Perhaps he is bi…as a unchangable condition of his life?

  • Lles Nats

    Who’s version of morality is the issue. The groups doing the calling out will differ depending on who’s version of morality is violated.

  • larry

    Not really when you figure out the kind of pressures people go under. Especially if they are of a “traditional” religious group, have bigoted family, friends, or if they are old enough likely to lose their job, home or school to be gay.

    The closet has social benefits in many circles. Especially among your crowd.

    Seen it before, know people like that. Nowadays its seen more with Baby Boomers than subsequent generations.

  • larry

    The one that finds fault with doing deliberate harm to people on the basis of prejudices. The one based on rational and sane criteria.

    All you are doing is telling me is that Christians look for excuses to act badly to others.

  • Lles Nats

    Oops. You pegged us. Commence the stoning now. I know u are eager.

  • K

    I sometimes think humans do to much thinking for The Lord. Yes it states in the bible that homosexuality is wrong….it also states a million other things that are wrong such as murder, lies, adultery, porn, eating certain animals or even so much as looking at another person and thinking sexual thoughts if u are married. But Jesus died for our sins and we are all sinners. A few of the main things I have got from the bible is to worship no other God, to honor your mother and father, to love thy neighbor and to not judge others! I see a lot of judging from this school. We are humans, we have no right to judge others in any circumstance no matter how wrong we think they are. It’s all in the hands of The Lord.
    “For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” -Romans 3:23
    “Judge not, that you not be judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it, it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brothers eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is a log in your own eye? You hypocrites, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brothers eye.” – Matthew 7:1-5
    “There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?” James 4:12

    Congrats to the beautiful couple!

  • larry

    Unfortunately you are being a compassionate, sane, and decent human being in a situation where such people are almost never seen.

    What Christians should do and what they usually do are two very different things. 🙂

  • Michael Glass

    Obviously there is a clash between the student’s right to an education and the policy of the institution. A more worldly wise student would have delayed her marriage until she had graduated. Even if she had courted a confrontation, the college has reacted in a way that brings no credit to them. You would hope that the College would at least help the young woman to find another place of learning where her courses would be recognised. After all, she says she is only one semester away from graduation.

    However, this situation also raises another question. The Christian college may be a private university, but I am sure that it would receive many concessions as an educational institution. If the university is so blatantly discriminatory, then it should forfeit all rights to any Government concessions, such as tax breaks.

  • Peter1:17

    How come always one is the man and one is the woman?

  • Peter1:17

    Atheists always get their facts wrong. The KKK is not a university.

  • Alex

    A Christian is someone who turns away from their sin and follows the commandments and teachings of Jesus Christ. In the bible Matthew 7:16 states: “You shall know them by their fruits”.
    Homosexuality is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22) Your friend is living in unrepented sin. That is not acceptable in the eyes of God. I pray that God lends you understanding on this matter and rescues your friend from her wicked lifestyle.

  • Peter1:17

    Yes, leave other people alone, like why would an atheist come on a religion web site and constantly fake quotes from the bible to slam religion? Let other people alone, I say.

  • Peter1:17

    I think you mean “Congrats to the beautiful couple!”
    “For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error” Romans 1:26-27

  • Peter1:17

    Why do you assume the government should punish a college for believing that homosexuality is wrong? Does government now get to tell us which religions are bad and which are acceptable? Just wait until the next hard core republican gets in and see if you like it when they start harassing the left wing churches.

  • Frank

    “Minard said she is aware that her relationship violates the covenant….”

    So she has no integrity and should be expelled.

  • Atheist Max

    @Peter 1:17

    “…leave us alone”
    Excuse me? I need to LEAVE YOU alone?

    The quotes are not fake.
    And no, I won’t leave you alone – believe what you want – but Your churches have prompted me to speak more loudly and bluntly.

    Religious News Service is an important News Site not your personal Christian salvation site. Find Pat Robertson for your salvation, don’t cry to me about having your feelings hurt here.

    Religion is the central CAUSE of violence in the world which is what you would learn if you read the stories here instead of just commenting against atheism.

    Religious aggression by your church is destroying American freedom.
    The Christian effort to overthrow American Laws must cease:

    #1. Creationism: Teach this to only your own children. you have the right to do that. But I don’t want it in my public school. Don’t teach it to my kids. It is nonsense and your churches have stepped over the line to not only support this crap but advocate a rebellion against science.
    Tennessee, Texas and Louisiana children are the most ignorant on science in the USA.

    #2. Intelligent Design: An unsupportable philosophy – dangerous and ignorant of scientific method. Keep it at home and in your church. This is yet another attempt to destroy science.

    #3. Prayer in schools: Absolutely outrageous. Not useful, not helpful and making kids as stupid as the bricks that hold up the buildings. Our public schools are not madrases!

    #4. ALL family planning services: I am personally against abortion on humanitarian grounds – But my daughters must have the right to OWN their own bodies and choose such things for themselves. These are constitutional matters.
    Additionally, your Churches reject contraception as a way to prevent abortions and they are working against progress all across the world.

    Religion is no friend of healthy sex or emotional well being. It is the cause of intellectual, sexual and emotional repression and as such a huge contributor to mental illness.

    #5. Gay Rights: Laws outlawing the ability for gay people to get married or to even stay together in civil law is an ongoing outrage.
    YOU Christians apparently think the persecution is personal only to them.
The russian orthodox church is attempting to round up gays in many cities and push them out of the communities. RELIGION is to blame.

    And much more could be added to this disgusting litany.

    IF Christians would stop trying to push the public (people like me) around with these horrible intrusions into our laws and agree to stop this Christian Sharia we could all get along.

    One would think Christians would be happy – they have a savior and they are going to live after they die and eat perfect ice cream forever – wonderful!

    But why do they need to blunder
    across the division of church and state?
    Atheists, nonbelievers, agnostics, secular people are rising up to protect our Constitutional rights.

    Large swaths of the country are beginning to look like a theocratic oligarchy. Money and power are merging with religion to control people.

    Religious people carrying guns,
    running to prayer meetings and worship services
    and banning family planning and forcing religion
    onto educational programs sounds a lot like Afghanistan or Pakistan – not America.

    Religion is just dangerous and stupid.

Meanwhile – I shall thoroughly reject it and call it
    whatever I want to call it.

  • Atheist Max

    Fascist alert.

    “Do what I say and love the Lord, or else”
    This despicable nonsense has no place in civilization.

  • larry

    Discrimination is harmful to civil society. The government has no interests which cannot be justified with rational and secular purposes.

    Your dislike of gays is neither rational nor secular in nature. So it is not worthy of government support.

    BTW conservatives always like abusing power and attack liberal churches. They even deny them the right to perform religious ceremonies. So it is already obvious they hate freedom of religion.

  • Atheist Max

    “What Christians should do and what they usually do are two very different things.”

    I disagree with this.
    Christians do awful because they are taught to do awful things.
    Please don’t over-sell the ‘love thy neighbor’ part of the philosophy.

    My grandmother was a beloved Catholic.
    She was what people would call a wonderful, compassionate Christian all her life. She was loved by Christians, Jews and Atheists. When she died 420 people came to her funeral (Catholics count at these things).

    But…Guess what? She hated Jews.
    Why? Because they killed Christ.
    And she was taught this evil nonsense by “loving” Priests.

    Good people will do good and be loved far and wide. Bad people will do bad and be hated.
    But If you want good people to do bad things you need religion.

    Please don’t try to elevate Christianity
    to anything more than a garbage heap.

  • A. Smythe

    So if I get this right, what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home can be ridiculed, condemned and discriminated against.

    Yet Pastors, Priests and any other religious person who sexually abuse an underage child, is highly likely to have their criminal actions covered up by the bastions of religion that so swiftly condemn others.

    Makes no sense to me.

  • kyn

    You have absolutely no idea about a lesbian relationship.
    They are both females.
    There isn’t a man. Whatsoever. Ignorance. Pure and utter ignorance.

  • I was kicked out of a grocery store because they violated my right to shop during closed hours.

  • Christina Tilley

    Christians are supposed to be accepting. I you don’t remember Jesus was closest with all the sinners thieves, prostitutes etc. No one should be kicked out a semester away from graduating. They had no problem taking a gay persons money or letting gay girls represent their school through the SCU basketball team. People have been caught having heterosexual sex before marriage in the woods behind the school and only got community service. No sin is greater than another if your going to kick one out for being homosexual then might as well kick the whole school out because every one is a sinner. Since when is it ok to shun someone out because of who they are just wondering when did all of you strait people decide to be strait? #NotAChoice

  • larry

    Did you break in?

  • Seriously….Leviticus? Well, don’t turn it into a salad bar….make sure ALL the admonitions are observed: Stone your daughter if she is not a virgin; don’t wear any clothing with fabric of cotton and wool, or rayon, or polyester. Don’t eat any meat with cream based gravy. And does it not say somewhere that you’re obliged to copulate with your widowed sister in law, in order to raise children to your dead brother’s honour? And WHERE did Christ Jesus EVER say Anything about homosexuality? Gospel, chapter and verse, dude…..WHERE? Don’t hand me a disclaimer of your own amateur hermeneutics or prejudiced interpretation.

  • gilhcan

    What else is to be expected from people who don’t understand you? What is to be expected from people who use a book of religious mythology to govern all they know, think, and do?

    The question is, why would anyone who knows the chasm of difference between their knowledge and beliefs, much less gender-orientation and sexual practices, want to be a part of a group like Southwestern Christian University?

    It speaks volumes for the religion and Christianity of some people, doesn’t it? Mind you, that is the ancient history of religion!

  • gilhcan

    Do you have a right “to shop during closed hours?”

  • gilhcan

    If the learning institution is private, it can set its own rules, and there is no clash.

  • gilhcan

    Peter: Your questioning relates precisely to the historic problem of mixing religion and government. And that is precisely why our Framers added to our Constitution the very first “right” of the people to be free of those problems by maintaining a separation between church and state. Our own sad history shows that the stricter that separation is, the better for churches and government.

  • Lles Nats

    Isn’t leviticus a torah portion of thr torah?

  • Lles Nats

    Ah yes. A feel good doctrine. So modern.

  • gilhcan

    By the way, “the people” are the government, in spite of all the corruption of politician peddling (whoring) and oligarchic (johns) buying of government.

  • gilhcan

    Lies Nats: But people attach to religion for the same “feel-good” purposes. It’s as old as the human race, hardly modern. Remember, Eden and Adam and Eve and that awful apple preceded Charles Darwin. So much for the “evolution” of thinking!

  • Lles Nats

    The moral relativists here absolutely can notwait for gov to dictate morality via law. That is thr only reason they are here…as blogger “activists”. Their greatest desire for society the restriction of american religous freedom with mandates to make only secular choices.

    Not only is a human just plain sick to want a state powerful enough to do that, they are a net drag on society in general as they actively promote and loss of human freedom….as more freeing. Ah yes, only in the vacuum logic of a liberal wall banger.

  • Lles Nats

    Try being smart. That might help.

  • Lles Nats

    Bullcrap. Completely a choice. I know one personally.

  • Larry

    Christians are the biggest relativists of all.

    Judge not…except if the person is gay or atheist

    Thou shalt not kill…unless god commanded it or they were dirty heathens

    Do not lie..unless your religious faith is furthered by doing it

    Lead by example…unless it is too difficult then just force people into it.

    Love thy neighbor..unless it is easier to attack them and and blame it on your “strong religious conviction”.

    Do not pray in public like the hypocrites…unless it makes you feel good.

    Lles you have never shown an inkling of moral conviction, appreciation for liberties or even rule of law. You look for excuses to be nasty, malicious and rude.

    Religious freedom demands secularism because anything else is discriminatory. Our government is not owned by your religion or that of anybody else. You don’t care about freedom. You just want a license to act like a judgmental jerk. Sorry if that is an interest nobody else has to care about.

  • gilhcan

    K: So you pick and choose from the bible what you like. “Thinking sexual thoughts” about others is wrong for everyone unless the person you’re thinking about happens to be your spouse or agreeable friend at the time.

    Jesus died for our sins is ancient mythology. How or why should, would, or could another person compensate for your sins?

    Yes, caring and justice are valuable conditions for a civil society, but selfish greed makes them very rare. Hence we need a lot more laws than the last seven of the Ten Commandments.

    Quoting the bible piecemeal is not the same as solid study, learning, thinking, decision-making and acting in justice for the good of others.

    Not judging the behavior of others would be the end of society. We have rules and laws because people don’t behave fairly on their own. We must protect ourselves with a justice system that considers those who violate the rights of others by violating the rules, the laws we make.

    The chosen, private sex life of two people doesn’t violate anyone else’s rights, so what would all these ancient bible verses have to do with that?

  • Doc Anthony

    And now it’s time for you to apologize to the Christian university as well, for the slimy atheistic slanders you wrote. Your apology should be given in person, directly to the university president, preferably on your KNEES, with the RNS photographers present for live video !!!!

  • Doc Anthony

    Leviticus also prohibits incest and bestiality. But since you ignore Leviticus and approve of gay marriage, that means you also approve of incest and bestiality!!

  • Doc Anthony

    The Bible also says “Judge righteous judgment.” In fact, Jesus said it.

    So that girl and her new wifey are welcome to leave that Christian university, and go find a secular university where that mess is A-Okay!!

  • CarrotCakeMan

    The revocation of the Texas anti-gay Hate Vote by a federal district court is currently under review by the Sith US Circuit Court of Appeals. This university’s sharply punitive action toward this student, so that a significant portion of the education for which she has paid will be rendered useless, further demonstrates the animus of Texans toward LGBT Americans, and weakens the State of Texas’ case in Circuit Court. Animus is never a valid reason for a law that puts a minority at a disadvantage.

  • Anti-theist Tom

    Let’s go along with the fact that it is a private university and how *its* civil rights seem to operate only on their religious purview. Now let’s look at revisiting the tax exemptions this school gets by playing the religious liberty card.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    Anti-gays always claim they “have gay friends.”

  • CarrotCakeMan

    Sexual orientation, whether gay, bisexual or non-gay, has been shown by science to be inborn and unchangeable, and psychologists have shown being gay or lesbian is just as healthy and “normal” as being non-gay. Here are just 15 of tens of thousands of respected websites (and a citation from Fox News for the doubters) that document this:,2933,155990,00.html


  • CarrotCakeMan
  • CarrotCakeMan
  • CarrotCakeMan

    Here’s a video that discusses the question:

    A quick search on on the phrase Physiological Basis of Homosexuality turns up over 26,000 articles, the vast majority supporting the biological basis of same sex attraction.

  • Doc Anthony

    Gay marriage is totally opposed to civilization.

  • larry

    Up yours Doc and the horse you rode in on.

    Obviously Christian universities are run by bigoted pepole like yourself. You even admitted that a gay person should expect to be treated badly by one. No slander. You didn’t even disagree with my assesment.

    You despise gays but want to see a man on his knees. I could not make up somthing so ironically closeted like that.

  • Anti-theist Tom

    Since when do religious belief operate under the premise of “Facts”

    It’s odd really, if not even anachronistic in your belief system. It was just over four hundred years ago that Christianity finally caved into the fact that the earth is actually round and that it is not the center of the universe. Yet the prejudice these schools and the religious hold over homosexuals are based on a book written by bronze age goat herders some 2000 years ago.

  • Doc Anthony

    Sounds like you’re A-Okay with discrimination, as long as it’s against Bible-believing Christians!

    (and your atheist slimy President Obama SURELY is !!!!)

  • larry

    No Lles. You just have crappy “gaydar”.

  • Anti-theist Tom

    When did you choose to be straight?

  • Doc Anthony

    Really, a little JAIL TIME wouldn’t hurt those no-good girls!!!!

  • larry

    You don’t have a right to force others to abide by your religious belief.

    You may believe you do, but that is just delusional thinking. Religious freedom is not license to lie it harm others. Even though you think it is.

    Bible believing Christians like yourself hate freedom, rule of law and democracy. What is not to dislike?

  • larry

    Too late, I am already stoned. 🙂

  • larry

    Doc, you don’t keep kosher, therefore you approve and probably engage in carnal relations with donkeys

  • Doc Anthony

    Yes, it’s a choice, despite your lies.

    You chose to mess up and be an atheist, those girls messed up and chose to be lesbians. Humans have choice. We all have choice.

  • larry


    From out of the blue you demanded that I get on my knees and service a university president while you watched on.

    I never knew you swung that way!

    Doc, have you always been in such denial? 🙂

  • Doc Anthony

    We live in a democracy, Larry. Constitutional freedoms of religion and speech for all people.

    So the Gay Gestapo and their Atheist Accomplices are NOT welcome!!! Time for deportation!!!!

  • John Paul

    Didn’t take the time to read all comments, but I believe that this is rather amusing…. Hear me out before replying, as I am gay!

    They just kicked her out of school for a marriage that is NOT recognized by the state in which the school is in! That’s my issue with this! Sorry but once they enter Oklahoma, they are no longer married… This state is kinda messed up, just sayin…

  • John Paul

    The degree she is seeking isn’t offered anywhere else locally, that may be the reason she is there.

  • Scotty

    School rules cannot be in violation of state or federal laws.

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  • SouthwesternStudentDebby

    As a student from this university I knowingly signed a lifestyle covenant. I have obeyed the rules and don’t think that just because some have gone unpunished should mean that no one should be.

  • Atheist Max

    “Do as I say!!”

  • SouthwesternStudentDebby

    As a student from this university I think that the fact that it’s a PRIVATE university and that there they knowingly went to a Christian private university that made them sign a lifestyle covenant that should obey it. I agree that they should punish everyone who breaks rules but our lifestyle covenant states that they can deem how someone is published. But, no one else has gotten married to a same-sex partner. The other infractions have always to do with partying or clubbing and drinking.

  • Atheist Max


    Jesus commanded that you follow all of the Mosaic laws, Numbers, Deut., Leviticus.

    So why do you break all the laws?

    Don’t let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle. (Leviticus 19:19)
    Don’t have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
    Don’t wear clothes made of more than one fabric. (Leviticus 19:19)
    Don’t cut your hair nor shave. (Levit icus 19:27)
    Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)
    Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5)
    If anyone, even someone from your own family, suggests worshiping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)
    If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of its inhabitants … even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12–15)
    Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2–7)

    etc, etc. etc…

    You have a busy life!

  • Atheist Max


    Jesus “Follow God’s commands” (1 John 5:3)

    Kill your mother (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)

    Kill your father (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)

    Kill your brother (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)

    Kill your sister (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)

    Kill your cousins (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)

    Kill your grandchildren (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)

    Kill your aunts (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)

    Kill your uncles (Deuteronomy 13:6–10)

    What could go wrong?

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  • Eric

    It appears to be after reading the comments on this blog that the Christian college committed an sin against god that is listed as an abomination in the bible. Examine Proverb 6:19

    Proverbs 6:16-19New King James Version (NKJV)

    16 These six things the Lord hates,
    Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
    17 A proud look,
    A lying tongue,
    Hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
    Feet that are swift in running to evil,
    19 A false witness who speaks lies,
    And one who sows discord among brethren.

  • The Great God Pan


  • The Great God Pan

    People like Lles think of “homosexuality” and “heterosexuality” as behaviors, not sexual orientations. To them, a man is choosing to be straight every time he has sex with a woman. He has actually said in this very thread that he knows a gay man who had a wife and children and that therefore the man “used to be straight.”

  • Sarah Eulis

    This is why religion needs to be abolished. It causes too much grief and pain, while doing nothing positively, outside of giving people false hope.

    I wonder if they allow divorced students, isn’t that against the bible? Or fat people since gluttony is a sin. Hopefully they deny any and all students who are not virgins if they’re not married. I wonder if they ban mixed fibers in clothing? So many questions, so little time…

    Hypocracy, but what else is ex

  • Sarah Eulis

    Facts? But you believe a book that’s been proven incorrect time in and time out? Lol. You people kill me!

  • mickey30981

    blah, blah blah….same old ignorant atheist mantra. “bronze age goat herders, Galileo” Learn some real history and actual argumentation!

    The bronze age goat herder remark is just the lazy ignorant way to denigrate a belief system without having to even put together a single worthy argument! These bronze age goat herders, revealed the most powerful system of religious philosophy man has ever experienced. And these “simple” goat herders’ intellectual and moral powers have far exceeded the likes of your remarks.

    Furthermore, Christianity ALONG with the rest of the world only realized the truth of heliocentricity! Virtually one else was aware of this earlier than 400 or 500 years ago! So your sentence doesnt even makes sense! AND it was the Church that actually supported Galileos work until he insisted that his findings were fact when he hadnt yet met the criteria for evidence required even at that time! In fact most early areas of scientific inquiry were begun by Catholic religious! Seismology is called the Jesuit Science because so many of the earliest discoveries were made by Jesuits!

    The only thing anachronistic is your lack of real knowledge about science and religion. You simply parrot the ignorance that the anti religious have been yammering for hundreds of years now! Its time to find some real arguments instead of just stringing together some tired erroneous cliches!

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  • Billysees

    @ Anne July 11, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    Good intelligent comment.

    ” ABOVE ALL, LOVE EACH OTHER DEEPLY, because love covers over a multitude of sins………1 Peter 4:8 ”

    That should apply to an institution also.

    ” Don’t lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example……..1 Peter 5:3

    That should eliminate any need for students to sign a pledge or covenant.

    Why is religious fundamentalism so distrusting and mean spirited?

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  • Michael Glass

    No. The college should not be punished for its beliefs, but for its discriminatory action in expelling a student six months before graduation for contracting a marriage. The college punished a female student for contracting a civil marriage with another woman. As the civil authority determined that it was legal for two women to marry then a state supported institution should not discriminate against her for marrying another woman. As I said in my original post, there is a conflict between the rights of the student for an education and the right of the private college to regulate its student body.

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  • Billysees

    Atheist Max July 11, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    You are the best atheist I’ve ever read.

    Your points are mostly well presented.

    I must agree that the Bible can and too often does encourage bad attitudes among those who say they follow it.

    But Paul’s describes the ‘real reality’ of the scriptures as follows —

    1. …our knowledge is partial and incomplete…
    2. …we see things imperfectly…
    3. All that I know now is partial and incomplete…

    (1 Corinthians 13:9,12)

    The Bible therefore in many instances should not be trusted and relied upon.

    What can we trust in then?

    Here’s what I think stands out as trustworthy —

    Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
    In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths……..Proverbs 3:5-6

  • Tom Martin

    I know a lot about homosexuality and I have always wondered the same think. It seems that some lesbians think they need the appearance of a man in a committed relationship. Sorry, I just do not understand why two strong women in a relationship need one to give the appearance of being the dominant one.

  • Tom Martin

    I am all for same sex contracts giving the same rights as marriage, but I agree with you. She went there knowing the conditions of her enrollment and she violated those conditions. It makes no difference how many times the school has ignored others who broke their rules, unless it is for the same reason, all that matters is they have a legal and moral ground to dismiss her. Would she feel better if everyone else that violated any of the rules were dismissed and found themselves in the same situation she is in. That sounds a bit selfish. She felt strong enough about her convictions to marry now she should be willing to pay the price of her conviction.

  • Tom Martin

    The university does not need to do anything. In this case they only need to enforce this particular rule on everyone and if they do not then she may have a cause to say she was discriminated against. If she went there knowing from the beginning she was breaking the rule she should have waited one more semester. It sounds like to me she was daring the university to take action.

  • Tom Martin

    If she knew and her parents knew then it sounds to me like they bet on the wrong horse and lost.

  • Tom Martin

    There are other colleges and universities offering the course and as I said before they were willing to gamble and lost. Stop crying they were in the wrong not the university. Who told the lie not the university.

  • Tom Martin

    This has nothing to do with God loving or not loving it only has to do with the fact she lied and broke the contract SHE signed.

  • Tom Martin

    I would never go to a university that made me sign something I did not believe in she did and now she wants the university to fix her problem. She created the problem now she can fix it. Perhaps this is an opportunity for her to mature and not go through life expecting others to fix her mistakes.

  • Tom Martin

    It does not make sense to me either, but two wrongs do not make a right.

  • Tom Martin

    I agree with you!!!

  • Larry

    As I said before, as you have confirmed, no gay person should ever expect to be treated fairly, humanely and with decency by a private Christian college.

    It was foolish to knowingly put one’s self into that situation. Christians have a long history of discriminating against gays. Why shoud one expect them to act like good hearted compassionate people?

  • funkyfeminst

    I stand in full support of Christian, although it does elude me why any gay person would choose to attend a Christian university that was so vehemently anti LGBT to the point of requiring a contract. Comes a point where we need to stand up and refuse to allow our dollars to fund bigotry disguised as ‘religious freedom’. As a staunch Jewish, pro-choice, pro-marriage equality feminist, Catholic/Christian schools were not even on my radar when searching for colleges, nor would I consider them when the time came to send my kids to college. Lastly, while I celebrate Christian’s beautiful union with Karyn, with one semester to go until graduation, why didn’t they wait to get married? Should they have to wait? Hell no! Would it have made sense considering the attitude of the school and the inherent ramifications? I would venture yes. I hope that Christian is able to complete her course of study, whether at SCU or elsewhere, and moves forward to a long, joyful life with Karyn and success in her chose profession.

  • Larry Boutz

    These are two very close friends of mine…. It is [expletive deleted] she got expelled for finding TRUE love. So what it was with the same sex, Mackelmore’s song “Same Love” has a point!!!! It doesn’t matter the sex, color, religion, size, or lifestyle. Love is Love!!!

    I want to start a petition to end inequality in America… This is supposed to be a “FREE” country. People should be able to marry their true love.. No matter the circumstances..

  • Atheist Max


    “The Lord hates….one who sows discord among brethren.” (Proverb 6:19)

    Yet that is Jesus.

    “I come not to bring peace, But Division” – Jesus (Luke 12:49-51)
    “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But….what constraint I am under until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on Earth? No, I tell you, but division.”

    – Jesus (Luke 12:49-51)

    Religion is nonsense.
    It is incoherent, fascist and nothing but trouble.

  • Atheist Max


    Thanks for bearing with me.

    “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
    In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths”

    I have many problems with this:

    1. This passage gives the believer the idea that they are fundamentally on a mission from God.

    2. To “trust the Lord” is really just trusting your own thoughts even if your thoughts happen to be evil or selfish. Even if God exists the decision about what to do is still indistinguishable from what you would have decided without a god.

    3. There are no checks and balances in religion to determine whether the mission you are considering will result in someone’s suffering or not.

    4. The passage grants permission to do evil in the name of good if that is what you determined your mission to be.

    This is why the people who run Southwestern Christian University felt they were ‘doing the right thing’ by saving the soul of the Gay Student – by expelling her and teaching her to change her ways. It was also a warning to other Gay students that they also should ‘change their ways’.

    Witches were not burned at the stake
    in order to punish them – witches were burned at the stake
    because of the Christian belief that fire would save their souls.

    Just to be clear, No real witch has ever existed. Yet more than 200,000 were sorted out and burned alive over the centuries.

    Profound evil is done ‘to save sinners’.
    Italian Catholics came up with a word for it; “Fascist”

  • Michael Glass

    The fact that a private university has a “covenant” doesn’t make their reaction any less heavy-handed. That is why there has been such criticism of their expulsion of a student only a semester from graduation. A more measured response would have been to take the student’s welfare into account and try to help her to transfer to another institution where her marriage to another woman would not have been such an issue. As it was, the institution acted in total disregard of the welfare of the student in simply cutting her loose in the way they apparently did.

    If the College had taken steps to help the student to transfer to another institution there would have been such a backlash. It is to be hoped that other conservative Christian colleges would take this criticism into account.

  • Atheist Max


    And further, if you will bear with me – since you brought it up:

    because love covers over a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8)
    ”Don’t lord it over the people assigned to your care,
    but lead them by your own good example” (1 Peter 5:3)

    These are fine verses for a good philosophy
    and a healthy approach to humanity – so long as it is a GUIDE and not a law.
    I cannot disagree with, ‘love and be a good example’.
    Even Atheists are happy to do that – and guess what? WE DO!

    Problems stem from what is connected to these verses and the context.
    Everything in the Bible is enjoined with:
    “This is a command of God”
    and “Do it, or else”
    and “you should feel bad if you can’t always do it”
    and “you are a sinner who is worthless”
    and “repress your sexual feelings”
    and “don’t forget you cannot have sexual feelings”
    and “don’t doubt God’s existence…
    and so on.

    When we find pearls of wisdom in the bible (there are a few)
    which seem decent and civilized
    we should question why the majority of the bible
    isn’t just as decent. It is shockingly Indecent.

    Rather than let the few good pearls in the Bible validate the whole miserable book, we should question the validity of the Bible which hides them so well.

  • Doc Anthony

    That Christian university didn’t do anything wrong. They didn’t “lord anything over anybody” and they didn’t disrespect that girl. They posted their Christian standards upfront, standards that honored Christ (which is first prioriity) and didn’t hate on anybody. AND this girl freely signed on to abide by those standards, just like all the other students.

    Love covers a multitude of sins, but repentence of those sins is still called for, Turning a blind eye to those sins, as you would have that Christian university to do, only makes the situation worse, far worse.

  • Doc Anthony

    Jesus was a friend to sinners, but he was NOT a friend to their sins!!

  • Brad In tx

    The university has every right to do it. It’s terrible and immoral and awful that they would kick a young woman out for falling in love. But they are a private, religious institution. They had their rules very obviously posted and she violated them, no matter how archaic and stupid those rules may be, and they are.

  • Doc Anthony

    What animus? You break ANY university’s official and publicly written house rules — secular or religious — after you have personally signed your name to those rules, the university has the right to expel you. YOU chose to sign your name on the dotted line, so YOU incurred the responsibility to live by those rules or else bear the penalty for breaking those rules. Sorry CCM, but you and these other commies have got no case AT ALL this time!

  • Doc Anthony

    What would YOU know about being “good hearted compassionate” at all, Larry? Your atheism is just your way of hating on Christians. You can’t even rationally defend your own atheism, and you haven’t got half a “good heart” to work with anyway. Your belief system is just a platform for hating on Christians and Christian universities that still believe the Bible..

  • Doc Anthony

    This IS a free country. Your friend was free to break the Christian commitment and contract that she freely and personally signed her name in agreement with, and the university is free to expel her because the betrayed and broke her written promise to abide by the rules she originally agreed to. No Christian university should ever be forced to accept gay marriage MESS.

    It’s a free country — on all sides.

  • Doc Anthony

    One chooses to be straight, or chooses to be gay, every single day. A series of choices — a process — is required to either ENTER or EXIT the homosexual lifestyle. Thousands are making their choices both ways, even as you read this.

    This poor girl Minard has made a BIG wrong choice — marrying another girl — that will further lock her deeper into the evil slavery of homosexuality.

    In contrast, Chirlane McCray, the wife of New York City’s current mayor (Bill DeBlasio), who was a lesbian activist for over a decade, made a BIG right choice. She met DeBlasio and fell in love with him. She doesn’t even credit God or religion for her change, she says she just fell in love with him and decided to “put away” the past. She says she’s not even bisexual, she doesn’t have any spare tires — she just loves and wants Bill DeBlasio only. McCray simply made a choice, the right choice, and now she’s NO LONGER gay. No longer lesbian.

    Explain that one, Tom. You too, Larry!

  • Doc Anthony

    Too bad for you that there are tens of thousands of Americans who FORGOT to read all those fake pro-gay studies before they abandoned the gay lifestyle!!!!

    Masters, Johnson, and Kolodny said it best ten years ago in their human sexuality textbook. There’s a constellation of causes, but it IS possible for highly motivated individuals to change and to get out of homosexuality.

    If you don’t WANT to be gay, you don’t HAVE to be gay. You don’t have to be gay or lesbian, you can escape that evil slavery. Resources and resource people are available.

  • Shawnie5

    Thank you, MIckey. Quite true. The phrase “bronze-age goat herders” anywhere in a discussion thread = speaker is a parrot — likely with an IQ to match. Even the phrase itself is factually inaccurate.

  • tanya

    Max, your grandmother was poorly catechized, and so were you.

  • customartist

    It would be interesting to know how many students have been expelled for violating OTHER forbidden behaviors in the school’s lifestyle contract which include not only homosexual behavior but “harassment, sexual misconduct, pornography, alcohol, and tobacco.”

  • tanya

    Good for the school for upholding their values. The 2 lesbians could have waited with their scandalous behavior, but better to try and cause a bit of chaos with the school and make then look intolerant, hateful, and bigoted, right?

  • tanya

    You keep racking it up Max. How come you hate Christians, what is the reason?

  • undercover

    Then you should no how many gays and lesbians go to that school. I guess you guys should get rid of the ENTIRE girls basketball team and softball and half the volleyball team. Lol ignorant. And no where in the bible does it say a woman shall not lay in another woman’s bed so “rock on lesbians!!!!!”

  • Kevin O’Keeffe

    The university took the correct action here. The very notion that two people of the same sex can ever be “married,” is a revolting absurdity, and it is frankly incompatible with the mission of a Christian institution of higher learning to continue to have a person, engaged in such a ludicrous masquerade, as a part of their student body.

  • Frank

    It just goes to show that. God knew what He was doing when he created them male and female. Even in sin they inadvertently mimic the created order.

  • Frank

    This time? They never have a case. All they do is spout nonsense.

  • larry

    If shawnie agrees then it surely must be utter bullcrap.

    So before the scientific method was a real thing, the church was at its most intellectually rigorous. Definitely has gone downhill from there. Pretty much from Newton onward.

  • Frank

    If you are supporting sinful behavior you are not loving them.

  • larry

    Not at all. She was probably catechized before 1964. When official antisemitism became too embarrassing (and would lead to an end to Holy Land tourism if continued)

  • Cal

    When it is all said and done, she didn’t have to go to that school. Neither did she have to marry one semester before graduating. This is more a political stunt than anything else. The school has every right to enforce the policy she willingly agreed to. Time for her to stop whining and grow up

  • Country Crock

    Seriously?? Native Americans were performing gay marriages on this continent thousands of years before the white man arrived. They considered the “two spirit” people sacred and unique.

    Then there are the multiple variations of marriages God endorsed in the scriptures.

  • Country Crock

    Why would you as a believer want to disgrace anyone? It is so unlike Jesus, and causes me to question your claim to be a Christian.

  • Hunter

    Romans 1:26-27
    Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. EVEN THEIR WOMEN EXCHANGED NATURAL SEXUAL RELATIONS FOR UNNATURAL ONES. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.

    The Bible clearly shows that any form of homosexuality is shameful and sinful.

  • kast meka

    Good for them. Glad that someone is standing for principle, against the corrupt influence of the culture. Natural marriage is, and ever will be, one woman and one man, for life.

  • cletus

    It is astonishing how ignorant of the bible that atheists are.

    They pretend to be experts, but are totally blind to all forms of truth that don’t allow for sexual deviancy.

    The theology put forth by atheists is utterly beyond nonsense. It hasn’t a single solitary thing to do with the bible. Absolutely nothing.
    Unless you consider the exact opposite of what the bible teaches to be relevant to the bible. LOL

  • Shawnie5

    Here’s some scientific method for you: let’s measure the probability that a comment from me will result the Larry-in-the-box popping out with a characteristically ignorant remark.

    Whaddayaknow? Close to 100 percent.

    BTW, Newton and all other modern scientists owe the “scientific method,” the empirical search for the rational laws of a rational God, to Francis Bacon, who famously said: “A little philosophy inclineth a man’s mind to atheism, but depth of philosophy bringeth a man’s mind about to religion.”

    Truer words were never spoken. Back in the box, m’dear.

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  • larry

    And Christianity owes its existence to Judaism and Zoroastrianism. But you never see any acknowledgment of that.

    Assigning rationalism to religion brought vastly diminished returns once people realized God was superfluous to scientific study.

    As it stands now, religion is the greatest impediment to rational scientific study. Modern Christianity,especially fundamentalism like yours has only appeal to cretins and the emphatically ignorant.

    Lying for the lord is now standard fare.

  • larry

    Doc, you are the perfect example of a Christian who deserves no respect whatsoever. You are ignorant, hateful and detest freedom and other beliefs.

    You want to turn our nation into a theocratic banana republic. What is there to like?

  • larry

    Tanya, what good are Christians like yourself?

    You guys hate freedom, are malicious as heck and there is not a whit of honesty among you.

    Atheists aren’t posing a threat to the liberties of others. That is all you guys.

  • larry

    Like you give a flying crap about the liberties of others?

    Heck no. You call for jail, physical assault and attacks on any belief but your own. Religious freedom to you means Christians can harm anyone else with impunity.

    Don’t ever talk about freedom. You have no clue what the word means.

  • larry

    Right. Nobody should ever expect a Christian university to act towards gays with anything other than crass malicious bigotry.

    Nobody should be fooled into believing Christians are good people who care for others. Obviously being spiteful and bigoted is far more important to the faith. As you and others have demonstrated

  • larry

    But Tanya, they ARE hateful and bigoted. In all fairness anyone expecting Christians and a Christian university to act sanely towards gays are fooling themselves.

    Its not like Christians hold themselves to a real standard if moral conduct. They just use their religion as an excuse to act badly to others.

  • Elise

    1 John 4:18 whoever does not love does not know God because God is love. Just let those women love each other. And even if you do not agree with their behavior show them God’s love and mercy too because we are all sinners and no sin is greater than another.

  • Frank

    There is no love in supporting sinful behavior.

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  • Shawnie5

    I doubt that you have any clear notion of what fundamentalism is, since you throw it around so much in reference to many here who are clearly NOT fundamentalists.

    And we know of course that Christianity was born of Judaism, and the scientific method was in turn born of Christianity. Hence, “Judeo-Christian.” Get it yet? Nah, didn’t think so. You’ll probably be back in a minute saying Christianity has nothing in common with Judaism. Poor Larry — which way to turn?

    The biggest impediment to rational scientific study is the generalized ignorance and intellectual laziness of our population, to which you are Exhibit B (Max is A). Back in the box, I said!

  • Michael Glass

    Nothing in the idea that marriage is for one man and one woman for life negates the need for Christians to deal with others with justice and mercy. Read John 7:53 to 8:11.

    The young woman was one semester from her graduation. Despite this, her “Christian” college cut her loose without even a hearing. One would expect a Christian College to make some effort to transfer the student’s enrolment to another institution where a same sex marriage would not be an issue. Apparently they did not.

    It’s easy to cast aspersions at the young woman. However, Jesus’ teaching was that only he who is guiltless should cast the first stone. So instead of attacking the woman, Christian colleges across the country should be working out how they would handle similar situations without trashing people’s education.

  • Hunter

    There is a difference between judging and trying to point out where someone is wrong. There’s a verse in one of my favorite songs, “I am not a judge, I communicate what THE JUDGE meant.” As a Christian you are not to judge, or therefore attempt to bring condemnation by your own opinion on someone. That is NOT anyone’s place; however, it is a Christian’s moral responsibility to let an individual or group know when they see them participating in something that they see in the Bible leads to condemnation from The Judge. Atheists have made the point that as a Christian, how much would I have to truly hate someone to believe that they will be condemned forever, and just let them continue acting how they are without pointing out their wrongdoing? You have to understand that as much as Atheists do everything that they can to condemn Christianity, Christians are held to a much higher code of ethics and moral responsibility to our neighbors than they believe, and sadly most Christians do not do everything that they can to abide by these ethics and responsibilities. I’m assuming from your comment that you are most likely a Christian, and I really need you to try and understand that while I do not hate homosexuals, your friends or any others, I can not support them in their blatent misinterpretation of the Bible. I’m sure that they are both awesome, hardworking, completely decent people, but there are actions clearly stated in the Bible that are sinful. I’m sure that I would love them as people. They are just going against what God has commanded us to abide by, and repentance is necessary in order to truly experience God’s saving grace.

  • Kenny Williams


  • Kenny Williams

    Do you think our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would have turned his back on her? Do you think her sins against God are greater than your sins against God?

  • Kenny Williams

    Have you ever kept secrets from your parents? Did you masturbate as a child? If so did you tell your parents about it?

  • Billysees

    @ Doc Anthony + July 11, 2014 at 9:59 pm

    “Gay marriage is totally opposed to civilization.”

    But gay marriage is happening right before our very eyes.

    Why is this happening?……how can this be?……’s a good answer —

    1. Man’s ways are of the Lord, how can we really understand our own ways………….Proverbs 20:24

    Could this also be at work here somehow?

    1. God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,……….1 Cor 1:27

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  • DB

    The woman signed a covenant. She knew the rules. She could not wait until she had her degree? Maybe she should grow up and take some responsibility for her actions.. This a big problem in America today.

  • Atheist max

    “execute them” – Jesus (Luke 19:27)

  • Michael Glass

    The same argument applies to the college that tossed her out without a hearing. The college has received a barrage of bad publicity that may well have been avoided by a more sensitive and less confrontational approach to this situation. The fact that several states have legislated for same sex marriage means that this very situation could have been anticipated and strategies thought through on suitable approaches to same sex marriages by students and/or staff.

  • Magnus Elric-William

    Peter 1:17, as to why they post to a religious web site can best be summed up in the phrase “The Great Counter Commission” — you see to Christians the term Great Commission refers to the charge from Christ to go out into the world and preach the Gospel, the counter commission originates with Satan, the anti Christ who leads these people to spread the opposite of Christ’s teachings. And that my friend is root cause of those that hate all religion, particularly Christianity.

  • Ben B

    That’s dreadfully out of context, Max. That’s what someone in a parable said. As for whoever it was who made the comment about religion, they’re totally correct. Jesus didn’t come to teach religion, though. He wasn’t even an advocate for religion. He told the religious leaders they were whitewashed tombs, and reiterated to them, almost every time he came in contact with them, that they were hypocrites. What would Jesus do? He might say “let (s)he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Or he might say “if your right eye offends you, pluck it out.” He also said “Let your yes be yes, and your no be no.” Fact is: she signed that “covenant,” and then violated it a semester before graduation. If you disagree with the terms, don’t sign the form, go to another school. I think we might have a similar program here at TU. So tell her to settle down, less publicity, more action. Quit whining, and finish your darn degree.

  • Ben B

    Hear hear!

  • Ben B

    You, sir, ma’am, whatever… Are being immature and childish. If you don’t like the rules, don’t go to the school. “Everyone is doing it” has never been an acceptable response to reproof. But perhaps you weren’t told that (speaking of ignorant). Take your seat. You’ve been served.

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  • Jeff

    Yes, not smart to agree to such rules. However, maybe the school should reexamine those rules. I can’t see Jesus turning anyone away. Look at who He hung out withand why. We Christians have to stop pushing people away. People came to Him because they felt his love and acceptance. How can we read “he who is without sin cast the first stone” and then ever consider picking those stones back up. If I were gay I don’t think I’d want anything to do with Christianity and that’s definitely not who Jesus was. It’s our job as His voices to say, “Come as you are we won’t judge”. This will allow God to work and bring people along in their own personal walk. Romans 12: 17-19

  • Ben B

    Kenny… “Let your yes be yes.” Those are the words of our lord and savior. Did he say not to pay taxes just because the Romans shouldn’t have been in place over the Jews? Did Paul not die as a martyr? Did Ananias and Saphira not DIE where they stood, struck down by GOD… Because they went back on their word – by making a commitment and not following through? A) Our God is an awesome God, and his ways are higher than ours: so is he just or full of grace? Is he not both? B) This is more a side-note… 11 years ago, I attended a small Christian school in MO. The chapel drummer was the star basketball player. His summer gf drove out one weekend, and they got a hotel room. He felt guilty about it, so went and talked to someone in private. He was expelled. Why? Because he violated the contract he had signed, which barred extra-marital sexual activity. The school wouldn’t have even known. There weren’t Facebook pictures, status updates, or anything. Only his admission. That wasn’t in the news, though. No one has turned their backs in this story. The student signed a contract, violated it, and was expelled. It’s pretty cut and dry. Military members have their free speech rights infringed… But they signed on the dotted line. Stop whining. Everyone. The fact that this is a thing is really dumb.

  • Atheist Max


    “Execute them” – Jesus (Luke 19:27)

  • Atheist Max

    @Doc & Frank,

    “Bring them to me…Execute them” – Jesus (Luke 19:27)

  • Morisson

    Once again America shows it’s a medieval country with narrowminded, scared, little people. There’s nothing great about a country that is unable to create a society where everybody is truly free.

  • Bradley Greenwood

    Instead of expulsion, she should have been required to get counseling to ferret-out the reason she became tangled in a deviant lifestyle. Lesbianism is just one of many psychological disorders.

  • Elle

    I encourage you to hear the testimony of Ty Wyss of Walls Down ministry. He lived the homosexual lifestyle until encountering God. God has a plan for humanity and wants only the best for each of us. Go to God bless you all!

  • Elle

    I think it’s interesting that you take “Jesus ate with sinners” and don’t consider what that means. We are ALL sinners and Jesus came down to eat with all of us. Until we come to Him with sincere humility and say “I’m a sinner” we are all in the same boat and it is sinking.

  • larry

    And no gay person in their right mind should expect to be treated like a human being by a Christian school or Christians in general.

  • So religion gives nothing but grief? How about all those Catholic Hospitals; Universities and Catholic Charities? How about Lutheran and other Protestant hospitals, colleges and charities?

  • Atheist Max

    @Ben B,

    “Execute them” – Jesus (Luke 19:27)

    It is an absolutely salient and appropriate excerpt.
    Jesus scolds his followers about not obeying the edicts of their nobleman king (Jesus).

    I’ve had enough of this ‘out of context’ nonsense!
    If Jesus was so foolish to be unclear even to those who bother to read him, his failure is only more spectacular.

  • larry

    In other words he was pressured by bible thumpers to repress himself for the sake of giving in to arbitrary bigoted religious doctrine.

    You know ex-gay therapy is considered a crock even by its own practitioners, right?

  • Atheist Max

    Exactly! Speak up, sir!
    Religion is a parlor trick. Dangerous, primitive nonsense.

  • Doc Anthony

    The girl is free to live by HER standards. The Christian University is free to live by BIBLICAL standards.

    So both sides are equally free. No problem for anybody. The girl just needs to find a secular university that goes by HER rules, HER mess, and there are plenty of such secular universities to choose from.

  • Doc Anthony

    She CHOSE to be gay. Humans are not slaves or robots to their DNA, and there’s NO scientific proof of DNA “born that way”, period. You have freewill moral choice 24/7 whether you choose “straight” or choose “gay” tomorrow.

  • Shawnie5

    Thank YOU! Exactly so. Jesus’entire problem with the Pharisees was that they were unwilling to admit that they were sinners like everyone else. You have to reach out your hand to receive the mercy offered — and that necessitates understanding that you actually need it.

  • Doc Anthony

    There is NO evidence, zero evidence, no nothing of any kind of evidence, that shows any violation of Prov. 6:16-19 on the part of the university.

    Since gay and lesbian marriage is ABSOLUTELY an abomination, (Lev. 18:22; Ezekiel 16:50) it is that girl Minard, NOT the university, that messed up. She has done the abomination (and she even looks like an abomination, if she’s the girl on the right!).

    But MInard is free to go to a nice secular university where she can get a degree in “Anything Goes,”

  • Doc Anthony

    Nobody called for physical assault on anybody. That’s just somebody’s paranoid mind losing its atheistic marbles again.

    Nobody’s gonna put Minard in jail, but there was a time in American history when the original 13 states all had anti-sodomy laws. A little jail time can go a long way to stop a lot of mess (and hence protect institutions of higher learning).

    Atheists could use a little jail time too, (to help their atrophied brain cells to start thinking again!), but since atheism IS a religion, one has to give place to constitutional freedoms of religion and therefore not put atheists in jail. I support your American right to say rotten things based upon your rotten belief system.

  • Doc Anthony

    Stated simply, that’s what your atheism is…a rationally unsupportable bigotry and hatred towards Christians.

  • Jenn

    If she considers herself to be a Christian, she is most likely a false convert. Homosexuality is sin, and she has not turned from it, but rather has embraced it. You cannot be in a relationship with Jesus and continue sinning.

  • Jenn

    It is sin, and she will face judgment. So will you, unless you repent and turn from your own sin. She has no business attending a school where she does not intend to follow the rules.

  • Jenn

    It just violates God’s laws, that’s all. The Bible is just as relevant today as it was when it was written. One day, you too will bow before Jesus and proclaim Him Lord, but if you have not repented of your sin, He will tell you that He never knew you and you will end up in hell by your own choice.

  • Jenn

    Homosexuality is harmful to society.

  • Jenn

    You are confusing Christians with Catholicism. Catholics are not Christians. Catholicism is a works-based faith, while Christians are saved by the blood of the Lamb; not by works, than none should boast.

    Not only that, but how would anyone know that gays were gay if they kept their sexuality to their bedroom? No, they flaunt their sin and parade it for all to see.

  • Jenn

    Kicked out for breaking a covenant she made with the school.

    Christians are NOT to be accepting of unabashed, continued, unrepented sin.

  • Jenn

    Please capitalize God.

  • Jenn

    yeah we should be able to do anything and everything we want, no matter the consequences!!!!

  • Jenn

    They didn’t kick her out for falling in love.

  • Jenn

    She got justice. God would give her mercy if she repents.

  • Jenn

    She’s not married. What a charade.

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  • Random guy

    It’s a not for profit, tax breaks are there regardless

  • Random guy

    That awkward moment when it’s an Oklahoma school… You can bash the school, the student, religious views of others, but let’s please not drag Texas into this

  • Aisling O’Brien

    The KKK is an university??? I know of a university who seeks to name a dorm after a KKK clansman, but a university?

    More to the point of this issue, Southwestern Christian U is a private school. I don’t know if it accepts any federal funding, but if that comes into conflict, then they shouldn’t accept the federal $$. Meanwhile, the student in question ought to find another institution more compatible with her choices.

  • Aisling O’Brien

    The guidelines are applicable to all and should be enforced equitably with all. That said, she got married in March, but nothing was said, probably because the administration did not know, not until someone pointed out the Facebook picture. There it is, plain as day, can’t be argued away. But, one does not find pictures of persons having pre-marital sex, and seldom are they caught in the act; it’s so much harder to prove, unless there is an admission of guilt when confronted. Not all obese persons are obese due to gluttony; some have thyroid conditions; some have other medical conditions &/or meds which pack on the weight. Point being it was a plain case of wrong-doing by contract.

  • Jeff

    Elle you’re right. I never meant to imply that. Just wanted to shine a light on what has happened to us. Like Shawnie5 says. Jesus never had a problem with anyone except the Pharisees who placed so many rules on how everyone else should be. Instead of drawing people in with the same love He still offers, we seem to think that we need to impose rules and keep as many out of the club that are not like us. We must be careful that we don’t become the modern day Pharisees.

  • Rich

    well said.

  • Rich

    you do not know what you are talking about. all people including Christians do bad or evil things because of sin. ” all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” …thus our desperate need of a savior! the Lord Jesus Christ! the problem with being an atheist is that if your right and I am wrong and there is no God…neither of us loose anything….however if I am right and your wrong…you loose EVERYTHING!

  • Rich

    YEAH…..ok dude!

  • Mr Ackerman

    @ Max…it’s trouble for you, that’s for sure.
    I pray that the one true living God reveals Himself to you on your road to Damascus.
    I don’t judge you Max, I pray for you, although you disown your creator, He is still you’re God. He created you and knows every hair on your head, and because He stitched you together in your mothers womb, He loves you, and because He loves you, I love you.
    You’re persecution of me only adds validity to the faith I profess:
    “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you”
    Also Max, reflect on the greatest commandments, of which ALL the law of the prophets depend: Matthew 22 34-40
    Christians, love as Christ loves you.
    Blessings to all.

  • Rich

    larry…I take it your gay?

  • Rich

    larry, you are a left wing extremist

  • Rich

    you watch to much of the view show!

  • Rich

    26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
    romans 1: 26-32

  • Shawnie5

    Well, that’s not EXACTLY what I said. It wasn’t “rules” per se that Jesus had a problem with–part of His mission was to keep the Law perfectly on man’s behalf–but that the rules were not being followed by all in thought, word and deed and with absolutely pure motives . Jesus had a problem with the entire human race — sin — which is why He came to die. And before He did He showed them the necessity of it by demonstrating for them the true nature of God’s holiness expressed through the law, which was beyond anything they had imagined up until then and which was clearly beyond fallen man’s ability to achieve (this is what the sermon on the mount was all about). Some acknowledged their hopeless sinfulness and turned to Jesus for mercy. Others (including many Pharisees) turned away in an insulted huff, certain that they were fine the way they were, thank you.

    I just don’t want anything I say to be misconstrued. Too many people misunderstand the problem between Jesus and the Pharisees and thereby tend to fall into the exact same trap as the Pharisees did — underestimating our own sinfulness. “Otherwise they might see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.” Matt. 13:15.

  • Larry

    Not at all.

    I read the news.

    Even its own practitioners admitted it was a crock.

  • Larry

    Unsupportable? Every time you post it is proof of my position.

    You can’t post something that isn’t malicious, bigoted or simply mean spirited. I have no hatred towards Christians at all.

    I just have no respect for the ones who demand that the whole world must revolve around them. The ones who give offense to others as a matter of course because they feel God excuses their bad behavior.

  • Larry

    Rich, if you think I am an extremist, you are a fool. Doc proved everything I said with his little outburst. He has no respect for others. If they are not his brand of Christian, they deserve discrimination, violence or imprisonment in his eyes. His own words there.

    An extremist is someone who demands that a nation follow the dictates of their specific sect under compulsion of law. Whenever someone like yourself talks about “religious freedom” it always is about a mythical right to use religion as a pretext to harm others. To attack the beliefs and lives of those they want to feel superior to. Freedom simply meaning to Christians like Doc and you, a license to act badly, without consequences.

    Religious freedom means you are entitled to your own beliefs and to express them openly, but I don’t have to care what they are or live according to them.

    I don’t give a crap what you believe in. I don’t care what your church does in the privacy of its walls and among its flock. Worship any way you want. But don’t be demanding that I have to follow it. Don’t demand to be above the law. Don’t pretend that your belief absolves you of an obligation to be civil towards others.

  • Larry

    Rich, you missed the first paragraph, the one that explains the sin involved was IDOLATRY.

    “25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen.”

    Rich, Have you always been a liar?

  • Doc Anthony

    Idolatry is a matter of personal choice. When you choose gay marriage (as Ms. Minard did) instead of choosing God and God’s Word, you are into idolatry. When you say “Gay is Lord” instead of “God is Lord”, then you are into idolatry.

    Homosexual behavior is ALWAYS idolatry. There is no upside to gay marriage.

  • Doc Anthony

    You have “no hatred” towards Christians? Oh please, dude. I read your posts, not just the ones addressed to me, but to the other Christian posters as well. You got hate to spare. So stop falsehooding already!

    You can’t help but broad-brush and attack Christians because of that atheism of yours. You suggest we’re all haters and bigots merely for publicly agreeing with our own Bibles. You don’t even see your own bigotry and hate towards Christians.

    You attack Christians merely for insisting that students who specifically sign code-of-conduct contracts with Christian universities honor those contracts. That’s just Ethics 101 dude, that’s just taking adult responsibility, secular or religious. Does your atheism prohibit such ethics?

  • Larry

    No, but I live in place with one of the largest “out” populations in the country (NYC Metro Area). I have several friends, co-workers, and relatives who are gay. Its called talking to people as human beings.

    I take it Rich that you have no personal contact with anyone who is gay, nor seek civil interactions with those who are.

  • Larry

    “You suggest we’re all haters and bigots merely for publicly agreeing with our own Bibles.”

    No, I suggest you are a hater and bigot for actively trying to harm others and claiming your Bible should give you license to do it.

    If “Christians” like yourself didn’t go on a rampage and try to use the color of law to attack others, I wouldn’t give a damn what you thought or said. But that isn’t what you want. You want to force everyone else to live according to your religion. You attack education, personal liberties and even refuse to acknowledge other sects OF YOUR OWN CHRISTIAN FAITH who believe differently from you.

    Its not Christianity I dislike, its people acting like raging jerks attacking civil liberties. People like yourself.

  • Larry

    No idolatry, is worship of images of one’s deity and usually part in parcel with polytheism. Dishonest Christians always try to claim anything as idolatry when it isn’t because otherwise they look like a bunch of people prejudiced against some very visible polytheistic religions. [Which they are btw]

    Bigotry is always a matter of personal choice, even when you claim the Bible gives you license to engage in it.

    She was stupid enough to expect Christians to act like compassionate sane human beings. It was naive. If she had met someone like you early on before enrolling in the school, it would have disabused her of the notion. She would have known right off the bat that bigotry against gays at a Christian college is a given. Its not like you deny it is a major part of your faith nor disagree it was part of the school’s policy.

  • Larry

    Way to weasel out of that one Shawnie.

    You almost sounded like a humane compassionate person for a moment. Then you negated it all at the end with a big judgmental disavowal. Smooth. 🙂

  • Shawnie5

    I don’t “weasel.” And you saw nothing commendable in my original comment. It was not materiallly different from my second. Had I not followed up on it, you would have attacked it instead.

    And the “big judgmental disavowal at the end” was Christ’s, not mine. Back in the box, Jack.

  • Doc Anthony

    You might as well calm down Larry. Nobody’s calling for any violence against anybody. ( Of course, that one gay guy tried to do a mass shooting at the Family Research Council office not too long ago, but let’s set that aside for now.)

    I do not support jailing anybody merely because they have joined the Atheist cult or the Gay cult. However, I DO support riling up atheists and gay activists when they start getting overzealous with THEIR bigotry, broadbrushing and hatred against Christians.

    Sorry, but Christians are not the villains here Larry. All stupid and silly talk on my part aside, YOU are the atheist who is most demanding and insisting that Christians must surrender to the Gay Gestapo’s jackbooted demands. Therefore YOUR atheism is the far greater threat to America’s freedoms, not my rough-and-tumble Christianity.

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  • Atheist Max

    Yes. Religion is nonsense.

    What could be more ridiculous than a “repentant sinner”?
    What is the point of repentance if you are still a sinner anyway?

    What is more immoral than deciding for oneself that one has been forgiven for a real crime by a ‘beyond real’ judge?

    Fantasies and delusions. It is no different than slapping someone and imagining that Mickey Mouse granted you permission.

    If religion makes you feel good, you should consider going to a psychiatrist.

  • Atheist Max

    A Christian wants evidence?

    Why start now?

  • Atheist Max

    Capitalize ‘god’?

    Do you have evidence that it makes a difference to the creator of the lower case letters?

  • Atheist Max

    Atheism = I do not believe gods are real.

    How can this possibly be called a religion?
    Is “off” a TV channel?

  • Atheist Max

    We already live as if there were no god.
    It harms nobody. Get over yourself!

    You stop at red lights and stop signs. You know that god will not protect you if you break the law.
    The laws exist because god DOESNT!

  • Atheist Max


    Her mistake is to believe in this gibberish.
    Same mistake you are making.

  • Atheist Max


    ‘Execute them’ ~ Jesus (Luke 19:27)

    Yes Jesus ate with sinners because he was fattening them up for execution.
    Never forget what Jesus did to ‘sinners’ in the end – eternal fingernail pulling without mercy and without end.

    Or perhaps it is all bs?

  • Atheist Max


    That is revolting nonsense. Shame on you!

  • DB

    Where in the world do you get your facts from. Proven time and time again to be incorrect. What?

  • DB

    You know something. you are right about nobody’s business. So stop wanting to be treated differently just because they are gay. Stop throwing it in someone’s face that they are gay. And most of all why are Christians wrong and hateful for believing in something you don’t. Makes you just as wrong as you are saying Christians are. Seems like you spend an awful amount of time trying to prove Christians are wrong In their belief, just to make an argument. how about shutting up about what you think of Christians and enjoy the right of freedom of religion that you stand by and know that Christians have the same right also.

  • Atheist Max


    Your fear gives you away.
    Religion is nonsense and you know it.

  • Atheist Max


    Homosexuality is harmful to society??
    Prove it! There is no evidence whatsoever!

    Jesus, Allah, Yahweh and Mohammed have been the enemies of humanity since the day they were invented.
    And my evidence is mountainous!

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    Taking Bible verses out of context is just a poor reflection on your lack of knowledge.

  • Larry

    I agree, the fault was hers.

    She was naive and silly enough to expect Christians like yourself and those who run a Christian university were going to treat her like a human being. That was foolish. It is obvious that you would never do such a thing nor many Christians like you. 🙂

  • Larry

    Actually I would have ignored it.

    I generally try not to follow you down the rabbit hole of what people think Jesus actually meant on a given subject.

    “And the “big judgmental disavowal at the end” was Christ’s, not mine. ”

    Riiiight and it happens to coincide with your own predispositions as well. Everyone else is just not reading it right, just you and you alone. 🙂

  • Shawnie5

    “Actually I would have ignored it.”

    Based on your previous behavior, I doubt it.

    How exactly would you know whether my reading of the gospel is unique to me or not? And how would you know what my “predispositions” are so as to know what does or doesn’t coincide with them? The gospel goes against my predispositions in more ways than I can count because most of my natural predispositions are as evil as everyone else’s.

    Larry, why do you even bother? This is not your pot of soup, obviously.

  • Tom Martin, if you think that just because one appears in what you apparently judge to be male clothing, why on earth would you then make the logical leap that this is the “dominant one.” Have you met any actual women, or couples, in the past 30 years? I invite you to get your thinking out of the early 20th century.

  • Ian

    Thank God for people and institutions that still demonstrate their faith in God and their obedience to His Word!. Hat’s off to you IPHC, Okla! May I encourage you to continue standing for God in this apostate world. You are a true testimony and witness to Christ!

  • Josh

    Really? Or rather, Protestants are false Christians, since they are not in communion with the one, holy, apostolic and CATHOLIC church.

  • Josh

    I don’t think its wise to inappropriately use the word, “persecution.” What you meant to say was “disagreement.”

  • Liz Levesque

    If you sign a doctrinal statement and break it then the school should enforce it. And they did. Well done school. All she needed to do was wait until she was out of that school to do the dirty deed. As it is she snubbed her nose at the school. And flouted or flaunted her “rights” in their face. Good for them for bringing much needed discipline. Canon Jeremy Pemberton in London, England defied his bishop. There were consequences and repercussions. As there should be. We need to teach people about cause and effect. And keeping their word. She signed the statement. Broke her word. This onus is on her. Shows her lack of honesty and integrity. Perhaps in future she won’t sign statements she has no intention of keeping. She is deceitful. That is unChristian. Not worthy of that name of being at that school. There are plenty of Gender Studies degrees she can obtain. Glad they booted her.

  • Billysees

    @ Larry – July 16, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    You and Atheist Max are good ‘reasoners’ of the issues discussed in these columns.

    It is refreshing to me to think of scripture as Paul describes his own writings —

    1. …our knowledge is partial and incomplete…
    2. …we see things imperfectly…
    3. All that I know now is partial and incomplete…

    This is probably why we argue and debate.

    It is refreshing to me because I can now interpret scripture as ‘I see fit’ or as ‘I’m compelled to’. This is called ‘working out my own salvation’ as Paul would recommend.

    There IS a simple approach to ‘believing’ and it does take some effort for there to be any benefits.

  • Xxian

    Is Southwestern Christian University accepting any state or federal dollars because we have a separation of church and state. They shouldn’t be allowed to accept Pell Grants or any other government funds while they are discriminating. Somebody needs to get the ACLU involved.

  • Xxian


  • Xxian

    How about not worrying about it?

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  • Ryan

    The photo doesn’t help any ?

  • Christian Gay Supporter

    Coming from the guy who’s username says “Atheist Max”. I don’t understand how you can use a bible verse since you don’t believe in God. Instead of using something you don’t believe in to fight your battle, you should realize that this doesn’t affect you in any way possible. Have a good day and God Bless.

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