Evangelicals add one more guest to the wedding party: Jesus

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When Brianna and Chris Lindsay married in June, the evangelical couple added foot washing to the ceremony to demonstrate their mutual submission. Photo courtesy of Perfectly Paired Photography

When Brianna and Chris Lindsay married in June, the evangelical couple added foot washing to the ceremony to demonstrate their mutual submission. Photo courtesy of Perfectly Paired Photography

When Brianna and Chris Lindsay married in June, the evangelical couple added foot washing to the ceremony to demonstrate their mutual submission. Photo courtesy of Brianna Lindsay

When Brianna and Chris Lindsay married in June, the evangelical couple added foot washing to the ceremony to demonstrate their mutual submission. Photo courtesy of Perfectly Paired Photography

(RNS) When Brianna and Chris Lindsay married in June, they had the church, the minister, the bridesmaids … and a foot-washing ceremony for the bride and groom.

It was, they said, a sign of their mutual submission.

“First he took off both of my shoes and we had a water basin and pitcher,” said the bride, recalling the five-minute ceremony during which a friend read a poem about the couple. “In return, I got down in my dress, took off his socks. … It probably was a little awkward for us — maybe a little — but we felt like it was an important message to show people.”

In an age of big-ticket destination weddings and reality show “bridezillas,” some evangelical Christians are opting for what writer Catherine Strode Parks calls “A Christ-Centered Wedding.”

Her new book details ways brides and grooms can fill their wedding with biblical touches to reinforce for friends and family the centrality of their faith.

“If we really believe that marriage is important, that it matters and that God infused it with so much meaning, then we want to share that joy with those who are present and invite them into that celebration and that worship,” said Parks, who co-wrote the book with her mother, Linda Strode.

Erik and Catherine Parks on their wedding day. Photo courtesy of Joe Parker Photography

Erik and Catherine Parks on their wedding day. Photo courtesy of Joe Parker Photography

At her own 2005 wedding to her husband Erik, their fathers — both evangelical pastors — co-officiated and she and her husband were encircled by their family in prayer while some friends sang the hymn “Take My Life, and Let It Be.”

Looking back, she wishes she’d done more to shift attention away from them as a couple and focused more on God — like stepping back and joining the congregation in praise and worship, as a relative did at a wedding last year.

“One of my husband’s least favorite things about our wedding was just being the center of attention,” she said. “Something like that would have reminded us both that we’re up there but this is not about us. It’s about what Christ has done.”

The notion of making the wedding a demonstration of faith is so popular in some circles that business writer Jon Acuff created a parody in July on his “Stuff Christians Like” website: “The Ultimate Christian Wedding Scorecard.” Scorekeepers get one point each for the reading of a Bible verse, two points for including 1 Corinthians 13 (“Love is patient, love is kind …”) and three points if “you hold a bachelor party but call it a ‘guys who love Jesus golfing together party.’’’

Acuff, a Christian, said he drew up the list based in part on the experience in his own wedding 13 years ago and others he’s attended since.

“We certainly had Bible passages read at our wedding but we did not do the unity candle or a lot of the other things I mentioned on my list,” which he noted, “could have been a lot longer.”

Jennifer Perron with her wedding party wearing red, as a symbolism of being drenched in the rich blood of Jesus. Photo courtesy of Jessica McIntosh Photography

Jennifer Perron with her wedding party wearing red, as a symbolism of being drenched in the rich blood of Jesus. Photo courtesy of Jessica McIntosh Photography

Here’s one that didn’t make that list: Jennifer and Sean Perron decided their 2012 wedding would represent the sacrifice of Jesus — with 10 bridesmaids wearing blood red dresses and the bride wearing white, which symbolized the “pure, spotless righteousness” of Jesus.

“We wanted to exalt the picture of marriage being a reflection of Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection, and return — the Messiah leading His people into the romance of eternal salvation,” Jennifer Perron, a Southern Baptist who lives in Louisville, Ky., explained in an email. “’Nothing But the Blood of Jesus’ was sung and is a huge reality in our life, wedding, and marriage.“

In another wedding that same year, Mia and Antonio Bailey included a liturgical dancer in their Baltimore wedding and walked down the aisle to praise and worship music as a message to their African-American friends and family about the importance of marriage.

Mia and Antonio Bailey included liturgical dancer Mari Travis in their Baltimore wedding. Photo by Madison, courtesy of Mia Bailey

Mia and Antonio Bailey included liturgical dancer Mari Travis in their Baltimore wedding. Photo by Madison, courtesy of Mia Bailey

“I didn’t come down the aisle with the traditional ‘Here Comes the Bride,’” said Mia Bailey, a Baptist who opted for a rendition of “Breathe Into Me” by the band Israel and New Breed.

“Living in a ‘Love & Hip Hop’ culture where marriage doesn’t hold the same sanctity as it once did among our ancestors, we felt an obligation to make Christ the center of our ceremony.”

Larissa and Ian Murphy, who married in 2010 after he experienced a traumatic brain injury in a car accident, chose to focus on heaven in their outdoor ceremony in northeastern Pennsylvania. Their minister read from evangelical author John Piper’s book “This Momentary Marriage.” Wedding guests sang the Matt Redman worship song whose chorus quotes the psalm “Better is one day in your courts than thousands elsewhere.”

“That constant pointing to this isn’t it,” said Larissa Murphy, who recently co-authored “Eight Twenty Eight: When Love Didn’t Give Up,” about their marriage, which was the subject of a viral video. “This is just a reflection of what we’ll experience in heaven.”

Ian and Larissa Murphy, with their wedding party. Photo courtesy of Lydia Jane Photography

Ian and Larissa Murphy, with their wedding party. Photo courtesy of Lydia Jane Photography

Although ministers have long included messages of faith within their sermons, some are encouraging couples to make sure their vows reflect a strong stance on maintaining their commitment to each other.

“I will have them actually say as part of their vows, ‘I will never divorce you,’” said J.D. Greear, a North Carolina megachurch pastor. “It’s demonstrating God’s love, and God does not divorce us when we disappoint him.”


  • Karla

    The part in the vow about not gettting a divorce is really great! So many
    people today are still having premarital sex/sleep around before marriage
    and that’s why many get divorced because if they don’t take the sin of
    premarital sex/sleeping around before marriage seriously the more likely
    they are to have an affair/sleep around during the marriage. All sin is bad
    and the sexually immoral in any form go to hell so it’s good that people
    say in the vow they won’t get a divorce so hopefully they take the marriage
    vow serious. Ephesians 5:18 says don’t get drunk and 1 Corinthians 6:10
    says all drunkards go to hell so I hope no alcohol is at these weddings from
    now on. The wine that Jesus made was new wine/diluted/from the fruit of
    the vine plus Bible says don’t get drunk with strong wine so people who get
    drunk on wine are also wrong! Bible says Repent or perish! We must Repent!

  • Larry

    Such vows are great if you are an abusive, irresponsible or adulterous spouse. You can get away with anything without narry a consequence from your significant other. No fear of the other spouse ending the marriage and taking you for half of your net worth.

    “that’s why many get divorced because if they don’t take the sin of
    premarital sex/sleeping around before marriage seriously the more likely
    they are to have an affair/sleep around during the marriage.”

    Completely untrue. It means marriages are usually later in life, with far fewer unintended children, and more economically stable. Divorces happen because some marriages just don’t work. Back in the era before No-Fault divorce, “cruelty” was the leading cause cited for ending marriages. Statistically abstinence before marriage does not lead to stronger marriages. Just earlier ones and earlier divorces.

  • Karla

    Larry-What are you talking about? If people take the Bible/Word of God
    serious then the marriage will last…Period! The reason most people get
    divorced is because they don’t take the Bible/their marriage vows serious
    and because most people that claim to be Christian aren’t really Christian!
    That’s why so many people in the church still get drunk,are mean,gossip,
    gamble,have premarital sex,have sharp tongues,covet,are greedy/jealous,
    have pride,lie because they don’t want to follow the Bible/Jesus/the Truth.
    Jesus said you are one of Mine only if you follow Me and many will say to
    Me Lord,Lord and not enter heaven! Bible says we must Repent/follow!

  • Larry

    You are delusional.

    I guess there is always an excuse for why these things don’t turn out the way you think they would. “They were not real Christians”…

    Plenty of spousal abusers, irresponsible people and adulterers take the Bible/Word of God seriously. Some even use it to justify the harm they do to their families. Being religiously devout is hardly a way to prevent people from acting monstrously. In fact it usually justifies such behavior more often than not.

    Marriage in of itself is not a goal worth preserving. Many marriages deserve to end for one reason or another. Staying together being the worst of all possible choices. This is why domestic violence is so widely underreported among devout religious communities.

    “because most people that claim to be Christian aren’t really Christian!”

    Your opinion on the matter means nothing to those people or anyone else. You are not the arbiter of such things. They are Christians whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Just not your kind. 🙂

    Btw premarital sex may be a “sin” in your eyes but it is hardly immoral. In may ways it ensures a healthier marriage. Couples are more likely to marry later in life, when they are at their strongest financially, and more likely to use mature criteria about their choices. Plus marrying later usually means fewer children and more resources to devote to them.

    Marriage early in life with a litter of children to the first person one has had relations with as expected from “Christians” is a recipe for marital strife in most cases.

  • Karla

    Larry-What are you talking about? The Bible/Word of God says the
    sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom of heaven nor will any
    drunkards,gossips,mean people,idolaters in any form unless they Repent so people need to read all of the Bible not just part of it.
    Bible is clear that we must Repent so you need to read the whole
    Bible. Bible says people who still practice sin are not a child of God!
    That’s why the Bible/Word of God says we must Repent because if
    people don’t Repent and turn from their wicked ways they go to hell.
    The Bible says the gate/road is narrow so if people think they can live
    however/sin away then go to heaven they are sorely mistaken cause
    Jesus said that many will say to Me Lord,Lord and not enter heaven!

  • Larry

    You can quote the Bible until you are blue in the face. It doesn’t change the reality of marriages or what goes on in divorce courts. What you want the world to be like and how it is are obviously at odds here. Blanket arbitrary bans on divorce and premarital relations are never a good and moral thing, no matter what your religion says on the subject.

    The Bible and ridiculously unrealistic religious views of marriage are a great enabler for domestic violence and spousal abuse. Religious views of pre-marital relations are practically incubators for troubled marriages.

    “so people need to read all of the Bible not just part of it.”

    Every Christian sect accuses every other Christian of doing so yet they all do it. Even you do. But you will never admit to it Nobody can credibly claim to have the full and correct interpretation of scripture. Everyone does anyway.

  • Doc Anthony

    Honestly, I prefer to keep things simple. Just do the vows (traditional, please, not that modern feminist mess), and let the preacher preach a brief sawdust-trail to the crowd (for those family/friends who only visit churches for weddings and funerals).

    Get done with the “I do’s” quickly, and be sure to add, “If there is anyone present who objects to this marriage, speak now or …” just in case the groom has got some baby mamas that he forgot to tell the bride about. Baby mamas have rights too, oh yeah!

    Then end the ceremony already and get on with the punch, cake, and cookies, and they better NOT be cheap bargain Brand X !!!

    That’s how you do a proper Christian wedding.

  • Larry

    LOL! Yes!!!

    You gotta love keeping it simple and quick so everyone can get to the reception forthwith.

  • “’Nothing But the Blood of Jesus’ was sung and is a huge reality in our life, wedding, and marriage.“

    Terrifying, horrible abject nonsense.

    Why not just crucify each other and make it complete?
    Disgusting. America is pathetic.

  • Oscar

    Don’t worry Max, the rest of the world has it’s fair share of patheticness too 🙂
    Well we certainly do down here at the bottom of the globe.

    As Mark Twain said, “Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool”.

  • Jack

    Larry’s managed to pack in quite a list of arbitrary assumptions in his post, among them the view that divorce is not much worse than a hang nail in its nature or implications or that it always suggests a couple never should have married in the first place.

    In the real world, divorce is a serious thing, especially when children are involved, and it is far too sweeping and simplistic to say or imply that in each and every divorce, the family is better off.

    The naivete of prior decades, ie the idea that divorce is a sure ticket to happiness or to a better life, is mostly gone, except in the minds of people like Larry who prefer the theoretical to the real.

  • Jack

    Whatever people want for their wedding, let them do it. Like everything else in life, marriage is no sure ticket to happiness, nor is divorce.

  • Jack

    Atheist Max either lives in a cultural bubble and thus never had a conversation with a Christian in his life, or he is just being juvenile.

  • Jack

    As even Mark Twain would admit were he here today, the premise that all religion was “invented” is simply his opinion, not some irrefutable fact.

  • Jack

    Anyone can call themselves a Christian, but there are common-sense tests that anyone can employ to weed out at least some people.

    If someone professes to be a Christian and agrees that the core of Christian behavior is to love one’s neighbor as one’s self, but beats the daylights out of his wife daily without a hint of remorse, a reasonable person of any faith or no faith at all would question the sincerity of that man’s profession.

    Put another way, there is nothing to stop someone from saying one thing and believing something entirely different. It happens all the time.

    Hitler, for example, called himself a Christian yet not only behaved like a monster, but even more basic than that, couldn’t even articulate the basic doctrines of Christianity in a convincing way. In other words, he couldn’t even fake it in a convincing way. It was a tribute to the monumental ignorance of Germans about the basics of their faith, or perhaps to willful blindness of a nation of apostates, or to virulent anti-Semitism, or to all three factors, that people went along with him at all.

  • Jack

    Statistically, the study results are probably all over the map on whether abstinence leads to fewer or more divorces…..and probably the Larrys of life and the Pat Robertsons will each cite stats in their favor. Certainly abstinence leads to younger marriages, and below a certain median age, divorces will be higher. On the other hand, the liberal assumption that abstinence is impossible and even psychologically harmful is rubbish. That’s way too sweeping a statement.

  • Larry

    The only arbitrary assumption here is that keeping a marriage together because “God hates divorce” can ever produce a good result.

    Divorce is worse than a hangnail but not nearly as bad as domestic violence, adultery, and staying together for arbitrary reasons other than the relationship itself.

    Some couples ARE doomed from the start, some set themselves up for doom, some just fall apart. Divorce is a serious thing, but the blanket avoidance of it makes no sense whatsoever. If the conditions of a marriage are bad enough to consider divorce, staying together for its own sake only compounds existing problems.

  • Larry

    Way to ad hominem Jack. Younger marriages mean younger divorces with more children per family.

    As for abstinence, it never worked as a form of birth control, doesn’t keep priests in line and it serves no function except to encourage young marriage with tons of kids. These are not assumptions, this is just facts on the ground. No form of abstinence works beyond a small group of extremely dedicated individuals. As a norm, it is universally a failure.

  • Larry

    An opinion strongly supported by the evidence out there.

    As opposed to belief, which is entirely based on faith, the lack of evidence.

  • Larry

    Jack, you don’t get to define who is a “true Christian” and who isn’t. Nobody died and made you Jesus incarnate.

    People who call themselves Christian are Christians. It is not for you to decide. Your opinion doesn’t change the nature of their belief or its validity as Christian. Just own up to the fact that many who call themselves Christians do very stupid things in service of their faith.

  • Michael Glass

    Sometimes marriages simply don’t work. Often people divorce and marry again, this time successfully. Others divorce and never marry again, and are happy to be free. Many people simply would not have found happiness or at least freedom and peace of mind if it had not been for divorce.

    It is all very well to say that divorce is a bad thing and should not happen, but people are not perfect and they make mistakes. Divorce might not be the best, but at least it means that people don’t have to stay for the rest of their life in a damaging, dysfunctional and abusive relationships. This is so important these days, because people live so much longer.

  • Oscar

    Yes, you are probably right. Atheist Max probably has not had a conversation with a Christian.
    Haven’t had many myself, despite being brought up in the epitome of “Christian” environments. Had lots of lectures and monologues delivered to my ears, but few conversations.
    In the end I got tired with the sanctimonious, self righteous diatribes and moved on, finding wisdom in conversations of good people of simple diverse faiths or lack of faiths instead.

    Guess I grew up, stopped being juvenile and explored outside my cultural bubble 😉

  • Oscar

    Good point.
    Have been down the divorce road myself. It’s not pleasant and no honor having to admit that one has a failed marriage.
    But on the flip side, we have both been able to move on from a relationship that had gone in two different directions and both live more useful settled lives, with partners who are more compatible.

  • Shawnie5

    Jesus got to decide who were His followers and who were not, and He left us some pretty direct instructions about telling them apart so we don’t get fooled by phonies. YOU, on the other hand, don’t get to either supplement or delete those instructions.

    But while we’re on the subject, you might want to pass your thoughts on to your friend Max, who seems quite confident about pronouncing professed atheists to be theists, and professed theists to be atheist. Come to think of it, so do you– must be more of that telepathy of yours st work. 🙂

  • Shawnie5

    “It was a tribute to the monumental ignorance of Germans about the basics of their faith”

    This has been epidemic in Europe since time immemorial. The clergy always did a poor job of evangelizing the common people– since they were essentially bureaucrats with the diligence of bureaucrats.

  • Frank

    Larry wrong again.

    Results The participants’ mean age was 12.2 years; 53.5% were girls; and 84.4% were still enrolled at 24 months. Abstinence-only intervention reduced sexual initiation (risk ratio [RR], 0.67; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.48-0.96). The model-estimated probability of ever having sexual intercourse by the 24-month follow-up was 33.5% in the abstinence-only intervention and 48.5% in the control group. Fewer abstinence-only intervention participants (20.6%) than control participants (29.0%) reported having coitus in the previous 3 months during the follow-up period (RR, 0.94; 95% CI, 0.90-0.99). Abstinence-only intervention did not affect condom use. The 8-hour (RR, 0.96; 95% CI, 0.92-1.00) and 12-hour comprehensive (RR, 0.95; 95% CI, 0.91-0.99) interventions reduced reports of having multiple partners compared with the control group. No other differences between interventions and controls were significant.

    Conclusion Theory-based abstinence-only interventions may have an important role in preventing adolescent sexual involvement.

  • @Jack,

    “Atheist Max either lives in a cultural bubble and thus never had a conversation with a Christian in his life, or he is just being juvenile.”

    I was a Catholic for 44 years. I taught sunday school for 3 summers to more than 50 kids. I had my kids baptized and raised my kids in the church. I prayed every night at dinner and had priests to my house on Monday nights for supper and prayers.


    It disgusts me now.
    Stop thinking that Atheists are ignorant!
    We are all former Christians who learned the truth! Religion is nonsense. All of it – Allah, Yahweh, jesus, Vishu…it is all garbage.

    you are exactly the sort of Christian i used to be and it disgusts me.

  • Larry

    Jesus left instructions so clear that there are literally hundreds of groups claiming to be his one true sect, who all interpret them in very different ways. Everyone claims their sect is the one true one. None of them bring any compelling reasons or evidence to take such statements seriously. So disavowing people who profess to be Christian as not being real ones is just so much apologetic nonsense.

    As a matter of historical record only one church in occupied Europe during WWII openly opposed the Nazis, the Danish Lutheran Church. All others either collaborated openly or turned a blind eye to them. Most Christian sects were antisemitic until it became embarrassing to be so, after the war.

  • Larry

    Since you did not provide a link to your stats, my guess is you are taking it from an abstinence only advocacy group. In other words, total bullcrap from self-interested sources without a connection to reality. .

    Abstinence only forms of birth control have a 0% effectiveness everywhere they are used. Unlike yourself I am willing to divulge the source of my assertions
    “Even though teens have been shielded from what might be deemed “inappropriate” sex ed content, SIECUS found that kids in the Magnolia State are actually having sex earlier and more frequently than the national average. Predictably, they’re also much less likely to know how to avoid unintended pregnancies:”

    “Other conservative communities that emphasize abstinence aren’t seeing much success, either. A full 80 percent of evangelical Christians report having sex at least once before marriage — leading the evangelical community to slowly shift toward greater support for access to contraception. ”


    “no evidence that abstinence-only-until-marriage programs increased rates of sexual abstinence—the entire supposed purpose of the programs.”

  • Shawnie5

    That’s the lazy way out…”There are a lot of different opinions so they must all be wrong.”. Nonsense. There are a lot of opinions and also a lot of ignorance. It takes some diligent study.of scripture, as well as some working knowledge of history, to achieve understanding and discernment. People “perish for lack of knowledge” as much today as they did when the prophet Hosea first wrote those words.

    If you want to tell someone that their interpretation of scripture is wrong, then do your homework and support your position. Simply pointing out the existence of disagreement accomplishes zip.

  • Jack

    Larry, as usual, you are leaping to extremes. Of course there are Christians who “do very stupid things.” Of course a person who claims to be Christian is assumed to be even when that person makes mistakes.

    But at some point, when there is no correspondence of any discernible kind between a person’s outward profession of faith and their behavior, it is not only legitimate but imperative that the person’s profession of faith be questioned. Every organized body of Christians in history has drawn such lines at some point. And they have done so precisely because the New Testament instructs them to do so.

  • Jack

    So in other words, Larry refuses to discuss the results of any study that yields a conclusion that contradicts his primitive biases against abstinence.

  • Jack

    According to Larry, abstinence “never” works as birth control and “doesn’t keep priests in line….”



    Note the absolutist statements that are Larry’s trademark.

  • Jack

    You’re blithely assuming that faith is opposed to facts or logic. Read the writings of CS Lewis and myriads of other Christian apologetics writers across time and place and watch your premise crumble to dust.

  • Jack

    I’ve probably heard at least as many such things as you have, Oscar, which suggests that environment alone does not determine one’s choices in life.

    I determined for myself that whether a given religion was true or not and how many people who profess it are bozos are two mutually exclusive questions.

    That, too, is part of growing up.

  • Jack

    So in other words, Max, your continued displays of profound ignorance on these boards about Christianity either were feigned or somehow you forgot the content of your catechisms. A third possibility is that you are a habitual storyteller.

  • Shawnie5

    Unfortunately, it’s not all that uncommon. I once had a Catholic teacher, a former nun actually, who told us that we call Jesus the Lamb of God because He was so sweet and cuddly. I kid you not.

  • Your comment did not make god exist.

  • Loren Haas

    Larry, you took the words out of my mouth. Abusers, Christian or otherwise would love marriage vows with no divorce clauses in them. The “no divorce” idea is dangerous. Even Moses set up a plan for divorce to protect women against the hardness of men’s heart. My wife and I have taught sixteen divorce recovery groups through our church and we have seen the damage done.

  • A. Smythe

    What happens when one doesn’t engage in premarital sex and finds out after the vows are exchanged and the honeymoon is underway that you are sexually incompatible with your partner?
    It’s a long time to be stuck with someone until death does one part.

  • A. Smythe

    Common sense at last, thank you.
    Life doesn’t turn out perfectly and sometimes it is not safe to remain in an abusive marriage.
    Good people who help pick up the pieces of a divorce are much appreciated.

  • A. Smythe

    Jack, I’m not feeling the Christian Love here. How can we possibly gain any credibility as Christians when we name call those who do not share our faith?
    By all means debate vigorously, but play the ball not the player!

  • Karla

    A. Smythe-That’s why you need to talk about that before you marry the
    person and be honest with each other about your fears but I think if you
    are dating the person for awhile and then there is no spark and you know
    that there is no chemistry/you are more compatible just as friends you
    obviously shouldn’t marry the person. You don’t need to have sex to
    know if there is a mutual attraction but that’s why people need to talk
    and date/get to know each other. Thanks for the feedback. God bless.

  • @Jack,
    “you forgot the content of your catechisms.”

    No, Jack. I read them more carefully.
    Jesus is a monster. One of the meanest, cruelest most horrifying gods who ever existed.

    Christian history is full of blood because of it – yet the illusion of Jesus as ‘love’ persists because of the willful disregard of the evidence by generations of preachers and duplicitous priests who were told the same lie.
    “The master shall cut him to pieces” – Jesus (Luke 12)
    JESUS describes what he intends to do to his own enemies.

    “..bring to me those enemies of mine who would not have me as their King, and execute them in front of me.” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    “Drown him with a millstone” (Matt 18:6)

    “And why do you break the command of God
    for the sake of your tradition? …. ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ ” (Matthew 15:3)

    “…if they are unworthy..REMOVE your blessing of peace.” – JESUS (Matt 10:13)

    “I have come to bring FIRE…What constraints! I am impatient to bring NOT PEACE BUT DIVISION.” – Jesus (Luke 12:49-51)

    “Hate your parents…hate your life” – Jesus (Luke 14:26)

    “Eat of my body” and “Be baptized and believe” or “Be condemned to Hell” – Jesus (John 6:53-54) (Mark 16:16).

    “I shall kill her children with Death” – Jesus (REV. 1:22-23)

    “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death…for ME.” – JESUS (Matthew 10:21)

    “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his daughter, and a daughter against her mother, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.” – JESUS (Matthew 10:35)

    “And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet AS A TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM.” – JESUS (Luke 9:3-5)

    JESUS ENDORSED the stoning laws – He rejected any change to the stoning laws of Moses.

    “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commands and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” – JESUS (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

    “not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law” – JESUS (Matthew 5:18-19)

    Inhabitants of conquered cities
    Victims of rape
    People who work on Sunday
    Uncircumcised men
    Men who have sex with women who are menstruating
    Ignorers of Priests
    Ignorers of Sacraments
    people who drink blood
    People who eat peace offerings
    People who let food go bad
    People who do magic tricks
    People who go to temple while filthy
    fortune tellers
    False prophets
    People who approach the Tabernacle
    Pretenders of witchcraft
    Pretenders of other religions
    Stubborn children
    Rebellious children
    Children who disagree with their parents
    Women who marry their daughters
    People who are irresponsible with their bulls
    People who pretend to worship idols
    People who actually worship idols
    Unruly children
    Slaves who run away
    Slaves who disobey
    Wives who disobey
    Men who steal
    Women who steal
    Children who steal
    Children who pretend to be witches

    There would be nobody left.

  • @Jack,

    “blithely assuming that faith is opposed to facts or logic.”

    Blithely assuming?
    Faith is the rejection of evidence. That is why it is a cancer to civilization. We will never progress with fairy tales!

  • @Oscar,

    “Guess I grew up, stopped being juvenile and explored outside my cultural bubble”

    Nonsense. If so, how would you ‘explore’ religion?
    There is nothing to explore. And no evidence for a god to consider.

  • Example #233 of the miseries caused by purely by religion:


    “Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery” – JESUS (Luke 16:18)

    It is inhuman and insufferable to follow Jesus.
    Nothing has caused more misery on earth than faith-based nonsense.

  • rob

    the Christian idea is to marry the opposite sex , so you will be sexually compatible as God planed.

    not to have pre marital sex. ,, so you wont judge your marriage partner by
    what others were like. .that I would think would be a real downer in marriage.

  • rob

    marriage is a biblical concept defined by the bible Larry.. So all you would be familiar with would be the version of marriages that countries and states
    miss use.. only a Christian would know the other that shows there sins and why they need their savior from sin ——- their Jesus..
    we would not expect a self righteous person like you Larry to know squat about the biblical concept of marriage.. So allow me to fill you inn..

    JESUS ONLY IS truly righteous and faithful bridegroom—— yet he who had no sin gave his life up for his wife who countless times showed her unfaithfulness to him .. his wife is his church Larry

  • Larry

    Riiiight, because talking frankly about sexual matters is so much a part of the culture of those who engage in abstinence before marriage. It takes a great deal of faith to believe what you said because there is certainly no evidence of any of that happening in the real world.

  • Larry

    No, extremes are the idea that divorce is something which must be avoided due to religious commandment. As for lines being drawn, there are so many different ones made by so many different sects. There is no consistency, no commonalities beyond the most basic idea that they consider Jesus to be the center of their religious belief.

    How they choose to interpret the New Testament is so wildly divergent, that nobody can claim authority on the subject outside of their own sect’s beliefs. Therefore someone declaring another to “not be a real Christian” is such an empty statement that it can only be considered a dodge. A way to disassociate one’s self from the reality of those of the same faith.

  • Larry

    Of course. Lying for the Lord is such a common practice among Christians in so many different fields, that without some corroboration, such support can’t be taken at face value. No link, no discussion.

  • Larry

    See the article and study I linked to.

    Not one abstinence-only program has led to an increase in abstinence behavior. Abstinence obviously doesn’t keep priests from engaging in relations either with consenting adults or predatory ones. [You might want to see the article here about priestly mistresses 🙂 ].

  • rob

    A max your atheist so by nature you would have a self righteous understanding ,,, when YOU quotes THE bible passages ..

    A Christian would absolutely hate those passages you quote if they did not have Jesus .. in fact it would kill them just like its doing you in ..


  • Larry

    No it isn’t rob. It is a civil concept that religion acquired at a time when religion and civil society were one in the same. You can chose to have your marriage recognized under your religion but that is only of concern within the walls of your church. Christianity’s definition of marriage is not my concern or anyone else unless you call yourself a Christian.

    Civil society need not take it seriously. In fact it really doesn’t. All marriages must be recognized by the state in order to be legally valid.The biblical definition of marriage is not a can of worms you want to be opening. Obviously you never read the whole thing, or you would know it includes:
    Marrying one’s rapist (after a fee is paid to her father)
    Taking women hostage as concubines in war
    Relations with women kept in sexual servitude along with one’s wife.
    Being compelled to marrying one’s widowed sister in law

    Jesus even affirmed a gay couple (Matthew 19:10-12)

  • rob

    .. a Christian wedding is all about Jesus WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR YOU .. Even the Christian vows you take .. You will not be able to keep perfectly EVEN THEY WILL SHOW YOUR SINS AT TIMES ..
    THE SERMON will center on your sins and your Jesus in a Christian wedding .. when your new husband or wife shows you there sins
    And they will many times over..
    You need to remind them of Jesus there only savior from their sins,,, to..

    want to learn about Christians weddings the vows what hymns center on Jesus. what being a wife and husband in a Christian house hold is about..
    why not ask

  • rob

    the bible calls it foolishness to those who are perishing but to those of us being saved it WONDEROUS LOVE .


  • rob

    not forgiving and spouses sins are sure marriage wreakers ..

    BOTH spouses that want there marriages to last need to keep their eyes on Jesus

  • rob

    TTHE REASON Marriages do not work is called S I N ..


    it always do to sin

  • Larry

    Spoken like someone who is not married or not old enough to have close friends who are.

    Marriage is not a state of bliss, divorce is not immoral. People are imperfect. Two of them together don’t make them any more perfect.

  • Jim

    What do the bible, God and Jesus have to do with marriage? Marriage is a legal contract and an agreement between two people and occurs all the time among those who are not Christians, not religious, as well as among atheists. Many marriages are done before justices of the peace and judges.

  • Frank

    Larrys greatest enemy are facts.

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  • cken

    What if I have nothing to repent for? I have followed all the commandments faithfully, including the great commandments.

  • cken

    Even the Bible allows for divorce.