Conservatives insist Vatican isn’t changing teaching on gays or divorced Catholics

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For the first time in his papacy, Pope Francis met with clerical sex abuse victims at the Vatican on July 7, 2014.

Creative Commons image by Catholic Church England and Wales

For the first time in his papacy, Pope Francis met with clerical sex abuse victims at the Vatican on July 7, 2014.

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VATICAN CITY (RNS) In what looked like strenuous damage control, the Vatican’s chief spokesman told a packed media conference Tuesday that this was a “working document, not a final document.”

  • Doc Anthony

    Sorry, Cardinal Dolan. Mr. Francis is in charge now. It’s too late.

    The Gay Marriage Cult now owns the clergy and the laity of the U.S. Catholic Church. It’s over. Do you want Mr. Francis to publicly take YOU down like he did to Cardinal Burke?

    Your job, from now on, is to do NOTHING to publicly oppose legalized gay marriage in the U.S. Your job is to do NOTHING, never again, to inspire Catholic bishops, clergy and laity to form a brave and united public front against legalized gay marriage, (such as the historic example of California’s Proposition 8.)

    You will talk as if, and ACT as if, the only existing Catholic teaching on gay marriage is “Who am I to judge?” Just like Mr. Francis has de facto commanded. That’s all.

    Otherwise YOU will pay the price too !!!!!!!!

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  • Larry

    2 weeks ago you were calling Cardinal Dolan a traitor to the faith for letting gays march in the St. Patricks Day Parade. Now suddenly you become his biggest fan.

    My, you are so fickle. Haters got to hate.

  • The Great God Pan

    Actually, the Pope said “Who am I to judge?” regarding Catholics who are gay but celibate.

    His response to same-sex marriage was that he is here to wage a “war of God” against it.

  • The Great God Pan

    Don’t believe the hype about “progressive” Pope Francis.

    This debate is about whether to welcome gay Catholics in order to butter them up and “convert” them to celibacy, or simply turn them away at the gates. For instance, they have been talking about whether Catholics should ban gay relatives from attending family dinners.

    The Church is not going to accept gay marriage or teach that homosexuality isn’t a sin. Don’t fall for the theatrics.

  • Doc Anthony

    I haven’t retracted anything Larry, and the above post is clearly NOT a 5-star endorsement of Cardinal Dolan.

    You use the word “fickle”, but that’s a totally apt word to describe Dolan. As you alluded to, Dolan ENDORSED (not merely allowed under pressure, not merely tolerated under durees, but actually **endorsed**) the Gay Marriage Cult’s marching in a parade that’s supposed to honor the great Christian evangelist St. Patrick. Very fickle behavior by Dolan.

    But he’s absolutely not fickle enough for Mr. Francis and his Vatican henchmen, heh! Oh no no Larry, it’s more than clear that they want MORE kow-tows from Dolan. MORE concessions from Dolan. MORE acts of slavish obedience to the Gay Marriage Cult.

    That’s why I wrote what I wrote. What I wrote is exactly what Mr. Francis, and the Gay Marrige Cult, is demanding from Dolan and all the other leaders. Everybody knows it.

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  • gilhcan

    Anyone in the world who has kept pace with religion and the Catholic Church will not be surprised that Cardinal Burke or Cardinal Mueller continue to consider homosexuality “an intrinsic disorder.” Their problem is that they speak too much. Hamlet had something to say about that.

    Another problem is that Francis has not yet had the moral courage to replace Mueller at CDF as he dumped Burke as chief justice. Francis’ big mistake was a wrongly placed respect for Benedict by allowing Mueller and many other cardinals to remain as prefects of their Vatican congregations. If Mueller had any self-respect, he would resign on his own, not just pro-forma, but actually.

    Another example of Mueller’s Ratzinger/Levada brazenness is his continuation and even his strengthening of the investigation of nuns in the U.S. A quick solution for those nuns would be to separate from the Vatican, declare themselves independent lay communities, and cut the Vatican off from all intrusion into their affairs. They could show the Vatican and the world that they are totally capable of being Catholic on their own and govern themselves.

    It is Burke-Mueller madness to demonstrate their archaic mentalities in today’s church world.

  • gilhcan

    One step at a time, but those first steps must be taken without any input from ancient thinkers like Burke or Mueller. Dolan in only safe because he is a rank politician. When Benedict was in charge, Dolan was a mirror image of Benedict. Now that Francis is seemingly in charge, it has been obvious that Dolan has been moderating his political tune. At least he has been replaced as the numero uno archbishop in the United States.

  • gilhcan

    This controversy, like the divisions after Vatican Council II and those going all the way back through Christian history to the non-Christian Emperor Constantine’s council at Nicaea in 325, demonstrates that the problem is the erroneous presumption that identical beliefs can be required of people. In the Catholic Church today, estimated to have billions of members, that is still a contradiction of human nature. It is unrealistic.

    The problem has its source in the management style of the church, the appointment of bishops from a central headquarters even after they have been presumably vetted by nuncios to national branches of the church like the United States. They have been recommended and selected in a process that leaves out the masses, the people in the pews, on the basis that they will be totally submissive to headquarters, the Vatican, the pope.

    You don’t hear any challenge from the people in the pews about the selection process because they are ignored throughout that process even though they are the ones the managers are supposed to manage, even though they are the ones who recite the creeds and pay all the bills.

    Even after the system would be corrected, even after the people in the pews and the clergy in every local diocese would select their own bishop, you still would not have a faith that is “one” and “catholic,” so-called “holy and apostolic,” because of the impossibility of having large numbers of people thinking and believing alike. It is a contradiction of human nature.

    To top off all this problem is the practice of popes, out of tradition or with advice from a close group of advisors, appointing the top managers, the cardinals, who continue the faulty, impossible system by forming the yet smaller group who select successive popes. As you move along the system of management, the people who really count, the bill-paying people in the pews, have less and less to say about who is going to form their cadre of bosses.

    History has proven this does not work. The Reformation should have been a convincing experience. The Counter-Reformation another. Vatican Councils I and II the latest. And now we have Cardinals Burke and Mueller and those like them, the trio of bishops appointed by Cardinal William Levada, former prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, investigating the faith and practices of U.S. nuns to determine how well they conform to the wishes of headquarters.

    It is unrealistic. It is a contradiction of human nature. It is ignorant and cruel. It is downright unchristian to even presume that councils or synods or creeds can result in common beliefs or common practices. What this current synod should do is abolish the practice of all common creeds because they have never meant what they have been presumed to mean.

    After that, let the people in the pews and their clergy select from among themselves, their own bishop. Democracy can also be holy. It was in the early church.

  • gilhcan

    Magic that you could understand that Francis had celibacy in mind when he said, “Who am I to judge,” about gay Catholics. Besides, though celibacy in official Catholic doctrine and presumed to include chastity, the two practices are very different as we have witnessed for many centuries since celibacy was mandated for priestly ordination in the Western rite. The continuing sex scandal of pedophilia and ephebophilia is only the latest display of the problem of attempting to enforce a contradiction of nature. God created human nature, also.

  • Larry

    I am no fan of Dolan. I always thought he was self-promoting scum.

    I just find it funny that as long as people act like raging d-bags towards gays, you are sympathetic. Haters got to hate. 🙂

  • rob

    Posted on ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2013‎ ‎9‎:‎41‎:‎47‎ ‎PM by Conservaliberty

    For those who have never heard of it, Lutheran Satire is a YouTube channel of informative and funny videos by a Lutheran pastor Hans Fiene.

    This video is his reaction to Pope Francis’ antics. Just remember it is satire–and Fiene has a rather cutting sense of humor.

    Frank the Hippie Pope

    by Rob for those who want to view the video the person told about. do a simple search
    using words———— Lutheran satire you tube video Frank the Hippie pope..