October 14, 2014

Houston subpoenas pastors’ sermons in gay rights ordinance case

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(RNS) The ordinance bans discrimination among businesses that serve the public, private employers, in housing and in city employment and city contracting.

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  • Eric

    Ugh. Of course the likes of Piper and Moore are in a troll-feeding frenzy over this. Anything to change the subject and cast anti-gay evangelicals as the real “victims” of discrimination and harassment. Unfortunately, neither this story nor any of the links explains *why* the Mayor’s attorneys issued the subpoena, which, I have to admit, seems intrusive and unnecessary even at second glance. Is there any precedent or justification for such a request?

  • It is certainly alarming, especially considering the pastors are not even a party to the lawsuit.

  • Mark

    Moore and Piper got involved in this because they see the tide of popular culture sweeping over The Church and they can see how quickly things are changing. They know that if we don’t draw clear, dark lines between the church and the world, the church will quickly become irrelevant. This battle is very real and acting like it isn’t won’t do anything but speed up the downward slide.

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  • N Waff

    It’s the continuing Liberal Jihad against Christians

    Instead of burkas, is Annise Parker going to have court-ordered muzzles issued to all pastors.

    The Land of the Free!

  • Sarah Pulliam Bailey

    Eric, the city hasn’t been responding to interview requests, but we’re working on figuring out why they issued the subpoenas. Thanks!

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  • Janet

    Have any Mosques been given subpoenas on ‘sermons’ concerning this subject?

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  • Paula

    And then we get snark from Piper.

    I have no idea whether Houston overstepped its boundaries, but my mother used to tell me the story of the boy who cried wolf. The trouble with evangelicals constantly claiming victim status is that the rest of us are too worn out and cynical to pay attention, even if they might finally have cause. Call it the “Sarah Palin effect.”

  • Cassandra Hale

    I believe this will be an issue with all the monotheist religions that take a stance against homosexuality–orthodox Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

  • Cassandra Hale

    I have often felt the same way, but I think we have to start paying very close attention. What better place to find orthodox believers than in a place of indifference in which these laws can slide by without us blinking an eye due to the disenchantment we feel toward that boy always calling wolf. The rest of that story goes that the wolf really does come and no one pays attention. I need to pay attention now.

  • Eric

    Thanks, Sarah! Hopefully you all will be able to figure out or learn why soon, as it would help everyone understand even if not agree with the action. Best of luck!

  • Eric

    Well, you are still free to whine, so yes–The Land of the Free.

  • Ron

    Somehow I doubt that this would be enforced in the Mosque of Houston…

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  • Larry

    Too bad the city is the DEFENDANT in these suits. The only jihad here is by the whiny Christians. Why do Christians have to lie so often to get their point across?

  • Larry

    Can you be more misinformed?

    Are any mosques party to the suit? No.

    The churches are the plaintiffs here. THEY initiated the legal action. The city as defendant simply is engaging in legal wrangling in the matter.

  • Larry

    Cassandra, Ron, neither of you read the article closely or have a clue what you are talking about.

    The Houston churches are the people who initiated the lawsuit. The city as DEFENDANT is acting well within their rights in using legal procedure to demand information necessary for their case.

  • Eric

    I think I missed that part too, but it does change the dynamic–a little. The city is just going to the mattresses with the plaintiffs, making them work harder and, more importantly, put their views (or the views of their supporters) in public. Thinking about it a bit more, and in the absence of more details, I doubt this is a first-amendment issue. That said, if the subpoenaed pastors are not themselves plaintiffs–then the court order does smack a bit of harassment. None of that excuses the hypocrisy of evangelicals outraged by “having their rights trampled” or whatever; it just seems like an unnecessary step, again the absence of more info.

  • Dee

    How on earth is demanding what the pastors will preach about necessary for their case? I will admit that the right wing people are playing up the victim more than they should, but the government shouldn’t bother with requesting something from the church. The people that issued this are the same people that are always wanting separation of church and state, demanding to see sermons to scrutinize them is a breach of that and of the first amendment.
    The right wing community has also gotten on my nerves however; because the first few articles I read about this when it mentions the bathroom thing in the ordinance, they only say that they would allow men to use women’s restrooms and vice versa. Not that having coed bathrooms is necessarily a problem, but I can understand being more comfortable using a restroom that you know only women will be in, so I kinda got why they were suing for that. BUT what the ordinance ACTUALLY said, was that transgendered individuals cannot be denied access to the restrooms and that they can file complaints. THAT I don’t see any issue with at all. So honestly, both sides are getting on my nerves. They need to drop the lawsuit and the government needs to stop this ridiculous attack on churches. They have the right to preach their beliefs, whether that conflicts with the governments beliefs or not.

  • Jane Dunn

    No, the churches are NOT the plaintiffs. Please read article again. They helped organize petition drive but they are not the ones who initiated the lawsuit.

  • Jane Dunn

    Larry – No, the churches are not the plaintiffs. Please read the article again.

  • ronald

    This from someone who’s party is solely based on being a victim of something… Thanks for making me laugh!

  • Kim Schroeder

    I don’t think there is a justifiable reason for this no matter what. All people have the right of free speech. However, I just wish Christian and other religious groups would stop lying about us. I was a Christian in ministry and attended divinity school intent on going back to the mission field. I can’t be a Christian now according to the Pastor i led to The Lord in 1979. I know what is said and preached. Ninety percent of it is just not true. We are tired, I am tired, of being called a pervert, child molester, or being told i was molested when i was not. Yes, I’m a transgender female who considers her self just an ordinary woman married to her first wife for 20 years now.

    A transgender female is not a man. We are women in all the ways that matter most. I am accepted as a woman everywhere except by Christians. Christians say they love us yet they propagate lies about us. I wish all of you would take the time to get to know a living breathing person and then make up your mind on how evil we are. We don’t hate you. We do not want to hate anyone, but how can you expect us to show tolerance when you actively work to prevent us from having the same rights you do.

    Please don’t comment hatefully to this. I will only prove me right when i desperately want you to prove me wrong.

  • Vince Warde

    Larry, you are incorrect – read the article, the problem is with churches that are NOT PARTIES INVOLVED IN THE LAWSUIT. Therefore this is an unprecedented intrusion into protected religious institution.

  • Eric

    “A group of Christians sued the city. In response, city attorneys issued subpoenas to five local pastors during the case’s discovery phase, though the five pastors were not involved in the lawsuit.”

    Did you mean this part, or some other part?

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  • Larry

    “It is part of the discovery process in a lawsuit brought by opponents of the ordinance, a group that is tied to the pastors who have received the subpoenas.””

    These are not criminal subpoenas, but civil discovery. Those pastors are potential parties to the suit or directly involved with the activities of the plaintiffs here. If the pastors do not respond to the subpoenas, it is merely grounds for the plaintiff’s case to be dismissed on technical grounds.

  • Larry

    They are interested parties to the suit and material fact witnesses for the plaintiffs.

  • Larry

    Kim its a civil suit where the city is a DEFENDANT. The pastors are being subpoenaed for their political involvement with opposing the ordinance.

    If members of the clergy want to act like political activists, they can be held accountable for acting like them. If you think this has anything to do with religious freedom, you are not getting the full story.

  • Larry

    This has nothing to do with what they preach, it has to do with the political activity they supported. The political activity which lies at the heart of the lawsuit INITIATED by people they campaigned for.

  • Larry

    ““The subpoenas were issued to pastors who have been involved in the political campaign to organize a repeal of Houston’s new equal rights ordinance”

    This part. It makes them an interested party, or material fact witness to the lawsuit.

  • Kim Schroeder

    Are all pastors subject to the subpoena or just those filing suit?

  • Greg deGiere

    I am a member of an open and affirming congregation of the United Church Of Christ, Our pastor and about a third of our members are LGBT. We have actively supporter marriage equality bills in our state legislature as part of our social justice public policy advocacy, We carefully avoid supportinging or opposing candidates or parties, unlike the churches who openly support rightwing candidates and dare the IRS to do somrting sbout it

    I am bothred by the the these subpoenas that, as far as I can tell from this story, are based on nothing but the pastors probably taking stands on a public policy issue despite their not being partiies to the litigation. If there is some justifcation to the subpoenas beyond that the pastors or churches were exercising their First Amendnent rights, the city should state it publicly and let everyone debate it.

    In the unending struggle for LGBT equality and overall social justice, our First Amendment rights are the strongest weapon we have. We shouldn’t risk weakening the First Amendment protections for the sake of some temporary advantage, imaginary or real.

    Conservatives, too, should think twice before they try to weaken the First Amendment with use of the government to impose their religious views on issues like birth control on others, with government-funded preaching, with government-dictated prayers, and with government punishment of freedom of speech and religion such as the South Carolina law banning churches from conducting same-gender weddings or partnership ceremonies.

  • Kathy & Woodie Sikes

    Everyone of the gays lesbian lifestyle needs to listen to Jimmy Swaggart ministries. Go to SBN and listen to him and Donnie preach it could save your life from going to hell GOD WILL FORGIVE YOU

  • Kim Schroeder

    I’m really not sure if this will matter to you, but for 40 years i went through counseling even while at TEDS (divinity). Some of that was corrective. The truth is i was never angry with God or Christians. In fact i took some comfort knowing God would condemn me and that i agreed He should because i could not stop ‘sinning.’ In spite of committing 1&2 Cor and Romans to memory I just would not change and deserved God’s wrath. At least i was being honest to God in this regard and not lying as so many others in ministry were. I decided i was not eligible for ministry and so left ministry.

    While in ministry I evangelized often and made it a life style so i’m disappointed to read “that if you continue living the way you are you are going to HELL.” According to the bible living correctly does not get you to heaven, only the blood of Christ does. Here is the real problem with the modern Christian message. You pay lip service to the real message, but communicate only a social agenda. In other words you have become liberals and don’t even realize it.

    The Bible just might say I’m going to hell, but do you communicate that to all others equally or in the same way you did to me? Does making a point of saying I’m a man really communicate the love of Christ let alone my need of salvation? Is it necessary for me to hear the message? Your message is one of condemnation not hope. All we hear from Christians is vindictive spite.

  • Kim Schroeder

    Fair enough. Almost all of the commentary circling the web on this is of the Todd Starnes variety and i guess i fell for it thinking it was a real issue.
    Thanks
    Kim @>—>—–>———–

  • Larry

    Its a little deeper than taking stands on public policy issues. Sermons are not confidential speech because of their public nature. These pastors are material witnesses for issues of fact concerning the plaintiff’s case (or at least that is what the City lawyers are arguing).

    The plaintiffs can always challenge them as not having probative information concerning the case or their testimony being potentially prejudicial to the litigation of the matter. We know the plaintiffs have at least adequate legal representation as they initiated the lawsuit on their own accord.

  • Greg deGiere

    You’re right about a lot of Christians, Kim, I’m sorry about what they did to you and so many others

    One bright side of this picture is that, if the polls are right, most mainline Protestants, and a lot of Catholics and evangelicals, have swung to more loving and affirming views in just a few years, and the tend is continuing, I haven’t seen any polls about attitudes toward trans people, and I suspect the swing hasn’t been nearly as dramatic, so weve stilll have a llot of Work to do. As some old preacher told the Pilgrams as they were about to get on the Mayflower, there is yet more light to shine forth from God’s holy eord

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  • Kim Schroeder

    I was one of them and understand the mindset all too well. Most really do not want to hate anyone, but remain silent giving the 10% who are vocal free reign. As evidenced by the comment above (the one saying i’m going to HELL) some Christians tends to believe poor manors is a spiritual obligation.

    The trans community is very small as compared to the LGB’s, but acceptance is growing even in evangelical circles.

  • Sadie

    “A group of Christians sued the city. In response, city attorneys issued subpoenas to five local pastors during the case’s discovery phase, though the five pastors were not involved in the lawsuit.”

    The pastors were NOT involved in the lawsuit. How hard is that to read?? They are NOT the plaintiffs in the lawsuit!!

  • Why do you think you are free to push your life style on others and be accepted because its “politically” correct. If your parents had been gay you would not be here neither would anise parker. Yes freedom to express my thoughts not to force them on you. She needs to just be what she is and stop looking for everyone’s approval.

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  • Theresa

    Jimmy Swaggart? You have GOT to be kidding.

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  • Mark Van Kekerix

    What is sad is that you can’t see past your condemnation of LGBT people to realize that this issue is about the politicization of the church. If the pastors used their pulpit to advocate for political purposes, then it is no longer protected by “separation of church and state” principles. Your biases are not relevant to this discussion; I would suggest you refrain from posting them.

  • Sadie

    The pastors, per se, are not being subpoenaed…their sermons are. Ridiculous! What’s the reasoning now?

  • GALT

    The lawsuit, according to the article, is in response to the City unjustly denying the petition to repeal the ordinance. What do the church sermons have to do with the cities decision to deny the petition? If we can put all our personal attacks aside I think we can all agree that there is a legislative process worth protecting here.

  • Mark Van Kekerix

    It sounds to me like this lawsuit and the city’s response to it is about a much narrower issue that most people seem to think. The opponents of the ordinance failed to comply with rules about gathering petition signatures – for example their signature gatherers weren’t registered voters, or they failed to sign the petition pages properly. When thousands of signatures were disqualified this way, the opponents of the ordinance sued, claiming that they should be allowed to break the signature-gathering rules because, well, they wanted to.

    Although the pastors being subpoenaed were not themselves the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, they most certainly were opponents of the ordinance and were highly involved in the petition gathering process. That makes them fair game as material witnesses in the suit.

    The narrow issue involved here is whether the opponents of the ordinance broke the rules for petition gathering; and if so, can the city enforce the rules on them. If the subpoenaed pastors used the pulpit as a part of the rule-breaking, then what they said in the pulpit is most certainly relevant.

  • GALT

    This story is about unlawfully denying a petition and a scumbag politician changing the narrative and discussion to something far more controversial. Wake up to these tactics people. Divide and conquer.

  • GALT

    So since the government has designated the itself the arbiter of morality any discussion of it in the Church is political? Nonsence!

  • Eric

    Why do gays and lesbians need their rights recognized and protected by law, like the equality ordinance discussed here? Because of the assumptions behind comments like yours, that’s why.

    1) I’m not gay. I don’t have to “push” my straight identity on anyone. It is *already* the norm, the “correct” way to be, and as such has been forced on others for a long, long time.

    2) Sexual identity and orientation are not “lifestyles” to be chosen or rejected at will. You are thinking of being a vegan. Or a NASCAR fan.

    3) Gays and lesbians are parents, too. Babies happen and will continue to happen even when same-sex marriage is legalized.

    4) When the views you write are prejudiced and bigoted or reflect the “normal” status quo, you are not simply “expressing” your opinions. You are taking sides in an argument, trying to silence disagreement, and supporting unfair social policies and practices.

    5) Mayor Parker is not looking for anyone’s approval. She is looking for equality before the law.

  • GirlsWithSwords

    Kim, I am disappointed that you as a person who once served in ministry for all those years, would throw the entire body of Christ into one pool of vindictive spite. I know you have heard the saying, love the sinner and hate the sin. God calls what you do an abomination. He also said that a slew of sinners, including adulterers would not enter heaven. Sin is sin according to the Word of God. Homosexuality and sewers of discord are both bad to God. However, His blood covers a multitude of sin, including all of yours and mine. Those who accept Christ as their Savior are saved by grace, not works. Respect the Word of God and fear the Lord.

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  • Clark

    OK, I’ll ask, what lie? If I was a Houston Pastor I would gladly send them my sermons. But it is out of line for them to petition all of this. Besides, they could probably get many of these sermons without a subpoena. Thats just an intimidation move plain and simple. And if I was a Houston pastor, I would have spoken out about this ridiculous ordinance. I am not saying every bit of it is ridiculous, just some aspects. Everyone who is not breaking a law deserves basic human rights in this country.

  • Clark

    Larry, can you be more ignorant? The question wasn’t are mosques being sued, the question was are they being subpoenaed. The pastors subpoenaed were not even party to the suit.

  • Rhonda b

    Your last sentence is not accurate, Sarah. “Under IRS regulations, tax-exempt churches are not allowed to engage in partisan politics”. The only thing pastors are not allowed to engage in from the pulpit, per IRS rules, is to directly endorse a candidate. Even that should be done away with in favor of their First Amendment right.

  • Has anyone thought about what the Muslims are preaching about the Gays? If one is to check the Christian pastors on what they say, they must also check what others are saying. This is a slippery slope.

  • D. Dhaenens

    Please don’t lump all Christians together. I am a female clergy person who is called to accept & love ALL people with the love of God. Good advice: If you’re ashamed or afraid of something you said being heard in a courtroom, then you have no business preaching it from the pulpit!

  • Free speach was given to Obama’s pastor when he said, “God damn America.” What is the problem now? Politicions should not try to cut out of the sermon the things that offend. If that happened, the sins of the people would be next to be “cut.” .

  • Jeff

    this has to be one of the most foolish comments I’ve ever seen. You think jimmy swaggart is a spokesmen for truth and morality. Way to give our opponents another reason to ridicule

  • Kim Schroeder

    Actually it is the other way around. My home church did not want me to attend Sunday service. I don’t think you saw my other comments concerning Christians. The response above was to only one person who was purposely insulting and calling himself a good representation of Christ like behavior i’d guess. In my experience only 10% (if that) of the Evangelical community is vocally anti LGBT. The rest are silent because they really do not feel as you do because they have befriended real people. It’s much harder to make blanket anti LGBT statements when you have a friend in the community. It is harder still when you have a child or parent who comes out as gay.

    However, i think you missed my point. My ‘sin’ is treated differently than other sin’s by Christians. I’m not just a sinner, i’m a blight on society. Christians do not condemn a divorced person or an adulterer in the way they do me. Name calling and insults seem to be perfectly acceptable as the proper way to witness to me. The point of the discourse is not about salvation it is opposition to me as a person. Christians, the vocal ones anyway, do not really treat me as a sinner, they treat me as the incarnation of sin itself by their deeds.The many Christians i knew will not even sit down for coffee with me.

    Indecently, I am a transsexual. I converted from physically male to female after 40 years of trying to get ‘cured’. The bible is dead silent on this. You can find verses that are anti gay, but the bible nowhere addresses transition. I have had this confirmed by evangelical Scholars. It simply was not possible to do this in biblical times.

  • rob

    JUST do what the government does when it does not want judges or courts to red something just black out that part..
    before you hand over the sermon

  • Sue Morelli

    that’s a great question, Janet

  • rob

    Hi Kim

    sin does not keep a person out of heaven no faith in the forgiveness that Jesus needed to die for that sin is what keeps a person out of heaven ..

    KEPT AND WANTON SIN HAS THE DEADLY potential of ship wreaking a persons FAITH that Jesus needed to die for that sin..

    http://www.whataboutjesus.com

  • Sue Morelli

    I’m a Christian and I KNOW Jesus didn’t teach us to hate. He told us to LOVE one another. You can love a person, while not liking or agreeing with their behavior. Jesus did it and Christians are called to do it as well. I will pray you stay well and realize not all people are hateful be they Christians, Jews, Muslims and others.

  • rob

    Larry your not for separation of church and state YOUR just for any one or any thing including THE state HAVING it say over the church.

    so we have to stop your sort of thinking you’ve shown by Christian votes
    and presidents that agree with us Christians and who will appoint appropriate supreme court Judges

  • rob

    yup they will love you all the way to hell Kim with out telling you Gods truths.

  • rob

    I SUGGEST Houston should

    VOTE FOR A person WHO BELEIVES in religious freedom next time !instead of this mayor who believes Christians SHOULD Be persecuted..

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  • Jane Dunn

    Larry – You don’t understand what you are talking about. “Party” has a technical legal meaning. In civil cases the parties are either plaintiffs or defendants. In this case, the activists are the plaintiffs and the city and perhaps others are defendants. The churches are not parties to the lawsuit at all. In most jurisdictions, when a party to a lawsuit wants documents from another party they serve a Request for Production of Documents, NOT a subpoena. But, when a party wants documents from a NON-PARTY they must issue a subpoena to the non-party. That’s what was done here. “Interested party” is not a real thing and “material witness” is a criminal law thing. Neither apply here.

  • Eric

    Even some staunch conservative sites are making this point, thankfully:http://americanvision.org/11407/houston-demanding-oversight-pastors-sermons/

  • Eric

    Meaning: making *Larry’s* point.

  • Lori

    It is funny. I see Democratic candidates take to church pulpits in some communities to make political speeches all the time. Why is it when Republican or conservative causes are supported by other churches, there is such a ruckus?

  • Kim Schroeder

    Then it comes down to this. Is being transgender actually a sin? The bible is totally silent concerning transition from male to female.

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  • Brad Preston

    Of course ‘our opponents’ WILL ridicule. They always oppose the Truth of God preached from His Word, the Bible! Jimmy Swaggart preaches the Truth, with love! So unlike the p.c. and the liberal teachers who teach Lies, with hatred-intending to repress those who don’t agree with their satanic lies!

  • Brad Preston

    But, obviously, you weren’t born homosexual! You had to CHOOSE to have opposite-sex intercourse to procreate those 5 children! Just be glad your parents had heterosexual relations, or YOU WOULDN’T BE HERE!!

  • Patrick

    Kim,

    Thank you for your genuine questions and open honesty. I am an elder in my church, straight, happily married. But, like everyone, I am a sinner. It is in our nature.

    But, luckily, God does not play favorites. You are loved as much as anyone else. I hope you and everyone else can appreciate that.

    I totally agree that Jesus spoke directly about divorce, but LGBT issues were very indirect (e.g. man and woman leave their parents and become one). It may have made things easier. But while I believe there are some absolutes with God, it is not up to me to point out your sins anymore than it is up to you to point out mine. That is up to God. But I personally believe the Bible is a great place to start.

    God loves an open and contrite heart and you seem to have one. The past is the past. Whether you are questioning whether your change was sinful or not, it is done. You are physically a woman, emotionally a woman, etc.

    See if you can move forward from where you are. It may not be easy, but know that you are loved for who you are. Us Christians mean well. We truly want what is best for people and many of our battles are not against people. If we are honest, there is no greater love than to lay down your life for your friends (or even your enemies).

    Since you used to be in the ministry, I encourage you to take heart. Romans 8:28-39. Nothing can separate you from God’s love that is in Jesus. Also, in Christ there is no Jew/Greek, male/female, slave/free. So, when we love others and worship God together, these things that divide people are no longer meaningful distinctions. We are all just people and we should appreciate each other.

    I agree that our society is trading reason for insanity and becoming depraved. We will get to the point where we may not even recognize good and evil and many will deceive others. But, Paul said these are signs. They may or may not be sins, but they are signs. Another sign is how some people will use religion to cause wars. Others will use politics to squash religious freedoms. (Reference to this article .

    But, if we have no love, we are no more than clanging cymbols.

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  • Chad

    Jim your disgusting!

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  • Kim Schroeder

    @brad Peterson i was never molested and how do you know what my DNA is? The other myth you propagate is that this is some form of sexual experience or that eroticism is our modivations. Transition from male to female carries the high risk of never being able to be sexually functional again. We do it because sex is not our priority. Our priority is identification and the core self that says we are a specific gender. Sex and controling it is a dominant theme in much of Christian culture so it does make sense that you would expect eroticism to be my modivations. It is not.

    The other idea you illustrate quite well is obligatory guilt. Christians and many others seem willing to accept us if we are ashamed of ourselves for their sake. I’d be brought up to the front of the church if you could us me as some form of cautionary tale. The Christian apatite for the Todd Starnes like sensational of half truths seems to dominate ideals.

    A lot of Christians are very good at telling me what i “should” do, but are definingly silent on what they should be doing other then condem, insult, and tell me I’m going to hell.

  • Brian

    Separation of church and state principles EXACTLY protect churches speaking to political issues of the day. That is literally the entire point of a “great wall of separation”. #Danbury

  • Dustin

    Jimmy Swaggart is a bit of a hypocrite.

  • Dustin

    I am a conservative Christian and I think they ought to just turn the sermons over. It would do them some good to hear some biblical preaching on homosexuality. Why should we hide our light?

  • Kim Schroeder

    @Patrick Your words and sentiment are warmly received. I would have no problem being a friend of yours. The scripture you note is often used in arguments saying LGBT’s should be accepted as they are without the need to change SSA or gender identification.

    Most of us in the LGBT community do not want to oppose religion of any for except when it is a direct attack on our civil rights or the practice does harm to others. A very large percentage of the LGBT community still considers themselves Evangelical, but they do not go to church nor do they associate wit other Christians. They pray, read scripture, but there are only so many times they can hear how they are perverts and sexual predators. In my case i would get panic attacks and get splitting head aches every time anything related to LGBT would come up even in light conversation. I felt the full force of my need to repent and i did countless times. No one who knew me would ever suggest i was not fully dedicated to the lord. That may be the reason i make them so uncomfortable. In their minds i should not exist because knew me so well for many years.

    Patrick, you are someone i feel is reasonable. You will not compromise your beliefs as you should not unless you yourself question what you believe to be true. I agree with you that most Christians mean well and are not at all unkind. As dedicated believers they like i did would how to this philosophy; When the bible and i disagree i’m wrong and i do what the bible tells me to. The problem is when we say the bible says it really means what someone taught from the bible. Now i beielve the bible does carry passages saying being gay is wrong, but it also clearly teaches that slavery is acceptable. We do not do that today nor would any Christian endorse slavery, but there was a time that Christians because of bible teaching. We need to look to our history t odevelop theology to help with pour present.

  • Mike

    All I can say is a real sickness has creeped into our country, you see it everywhere now in the last 5 to 6 years with the sick Liberal minded people, it has gone ten fold. If you don’t think the way they do, feel the way they do and do what they think is right they will attack you and try to distroy your life and or credibility and force their beliefs on you.

    I recently was working on a job and I am a contractor, I am a white guy, a black guy that was working with me started a conversation about all the garbage that is going on in our country, which he didn’t like and neither do I. We were having a friendly discussion with no bad language, no threats etc, not loud and some one over heard what we were talking about and actually called the owner of the company i work for and tried to get me fired just because they didn’t agree with what we were talking about and it went against their liberal thinking, it wasn’t even their conversation.

    They believe they all know what is best for all of us and they believe we all need to except that and live our life’s the way they chose. They think they have the right to run our lifes and tell us what we can and can’t do.

    Wrong it is our life and it is our God given right as a human to make our own desissions, we don’t need your help thank you. All Americans really want is for them to stay out of our life’s and go far far away.

    So this is what it has come down too now, lets start to attack peoples religious beliefs in American and tell them what they can and can’t believe believe and teach, isn’t there a separation of church and state? Don’t we all still have freedom of speech in this country?

    I would say this is gone to far with this liberal agenda in this country and this Houston Mayor Annise Parker is way out of line and needs to resign and get her head screwed on straight, and stop trying to force your sexual preferences down the throats of the people of Houston and or the people of America with a subpoena.

    And if people appose gay marriage or just don’t except gay people in general because it goes against their religious or person beliefs then so be it, get over it Mayor Annise Parker and move on, we all feel different and think different and there is nothing you can do to change that, not even a subpoena, which is lawless.

    I will state that I am a libertarian, I believe in God, also one who believes that people should be able to live their life the way they want here in America or anywhere for that matter. And if your gay well go be gay i don’t care about your sexual preferences, I don’t need you doing things to make it appear that being gay is OK by passing laws, there should never be laws passed based on one’s sexual preferences and then forced on others.

    Jesus said that a marriage is between a Man and a Woman, God Said Man should not lay with Man and if the church want to teach the WORD OF GOD no one in this country should have a problem with that. And if it hurts your feelings that people are teaching the WORD OF GOD because your gay and you some how feel violated then maybe you should reconsider your possession.

    God gave us all one thing in common, the right to make the right decisions in our life’s and you have clearly not done so, and if these local pastors wish to teach and preach the WORD OF GOD then more power to them.

    You should be fired from office for even thinking about subpoenaing these pastors, your way out of line. This is part of a new liberal movement to try to break down the religious community and religion in general, it has been at work for a long time.

    I strongly oppose gays in the church and if you believe in God and you read the bible you can’t support gays in the church, it goes against God’s will. And we don’t need elected officials using political power to dictate what we can and can’t teach and believe in our churchs, this needs to be stopped dead in it’s track, the sickness is now in your face.

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  • Charla Sisk

    Who are the Pastors of which churches who have been given a subpoena?

  • Mike

    Kim I remember watching a 2 hour special on Discovery Channel back in like 2002 or 2004, can’t remember. it was about the brain and they did a long term like 3 year study on gay people’s brains and straight people’s brains and what they found was amazing.

    What they discovered was that the gay people had an enlarged part of the brain in the frontal cortex where your pleasure zone is located and that because of that a chemical imbalance was created from this part of the brain, no lie not being a wise guy.

    So from what I see and understand is that people are gay simply because of a chemical imbalance created in their brain. Millions of people suffer from all kinds of different chemical imbalance of all types, it’s pretty common like depression or anxiety.

    So I believe that no one is working on a pill to help with this chemical imbalance, which i find strange for the exception that lots of gay people take offense to being called not normal and if a pill was offered they might be offended, not sure but the study looked pretty concrete and it make a lot of sense.

  • Mike

    God Bless You Sarah, stay on them and keep up the good work 🙂

  • Kim Schroeder

    “All Americans really want is for them to stay out of our life’s and go far far away.”
    You came after us and and tried to control our lives. You tried to prevent us from having equality. Now that this has failed you want us to leave you alone when for many years we just wanted to be left alone, but you just came on stronger. We did not go after you. You do have the right to call us perverts and abominations, but the door swings both ways. We have the equal right to tell you to shut up.

    You should follow your heart and oppose gays all you want, but don’t expect to be protected from others who do not want to listen you anmore. People are tired of hating and they are even more tired of some telling them thay have to hate.

  • Mike

    I would say just being Transsexual in it’s self is not a sin, it is based on what activities you are engaged in. We all understand gay people in general didn’t ask to be like that, you were put into that situation.

    And i mean transsexual or transgendered people are just people that feel they are the opposite sex a little different then just being a guy women or a gay man.

    So put all that aside what it really come down to is if your a transexual and you are really a man, you will never really be a women and your sleeping with a man then that is a sin.

  • Mike

    So what this all really amounts to is Houston Mayor Annise Parker has a chemical imbalance in her brain and is now going to start to attack the local pastors for them exercising their freedom of speech and not excepting her alternative life style, who ever thought it would come too this in America right.

  • Mike

    That’s because brad has a perverted twisted mind Kim, in his life everything just might be sexually motivated and he generalizes you as being a perverted individual that got a sex change so you could have sex with men. He must have a very low IQ or he is just trolling message boards looking to stir things up.

  • Mike

    there we go, you just tripped over your feet and are doing just what the Mayor is doing, because i am not a gay hater and if you read my posting fully and not just singled out a part of it you would have noticed that i stated:

    “I will state that I am a libertarian, I believe in God, also one who believes that people should be able to live their life the way they want here in America or anywhere for that matter. And if your gay well go be gay i don’t care about your sexual preferences,”

    And I also stated:

    “I strongly oppose gays in the church and if you believe in God and you read the bible you can’t support gays in the church, it goes against God’s will.”

    i never stated I hated gay people so don’t assume some is a gay hater just because you didn’t like everything they wrote, I said i opposed them being part of the church because being gay goes against the will of God.

    Hummm your reply leans a lot torwards what the Mayor of Houston is doing, not liking what the pastor’s are saying, kind of the same don’t you think. Attack, attack

  • Kim Schroeder

    @Mike I actually went though that at divinity school (Trinity Evangelical Divinity EFCA) as part of corrective therapy with the school of counseling chair and he was obviously a Christian psychiatrist. He was attempting to correct the imbalance in my brain that made me think (since 3 yo) i was a girl. I lost a good part of my depression, but my conviction that i am female doubled. Medication has been used for many years to correct brain chemistry issues. It can help depression even sexual addiction to a limited extent, but no evidence exists that i ever changes gender identity or sexual orientation.

    Technically speaking i am now gay because i have been married to my wife for 20 years and counting.

  • Mike

    I stated people should be able to live their life’s the way they want, YES that would be you Kim also. I didn’t say all gay people should be tossed in jail.

    And I stated I oppose gays in the church, now i didn’t mean they can’t come to church because maybe that would help them see the light. I ment I oppose gay people being part of the church such as being a pastor. i believe if your of the cloth, teaching the word of God you can’t be gay, it just doesn’t work. I mean God tells us it is a sin to have sex with the same sex and if your doing so how could you expect to be a priest or pastor, it’s blasphemy.

    plus i was being nice to you and supportive in other postings didn’t you read them? god says to love all and that same sex is wrong but he didn’t say to attack or hurt those who may be sinners

  • Dominique

    I know Pastor Steve Riggle is one of them (of Grace Community Church) and was on Hannity last night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLie2D5og7I

  • Kim Schroeder

    @mike “What they discovered was that the gay people had an enlarged part of the brain in the frontal cortex where your pleasure zone is located” Gay people likewise tend to be more intelligent than most and they tend to be successful when given the chance. Turing was the man responsible for breaking the German code during WWII. He was gay and was later institutionalized for that “crime.”

  • Mike

    So basically what it come down to with me and being a true libertarian is:

    I think we should all have the right to live our life’s the way we wish regardless of our religious beliefs, our sexual preferences, our life style. It’s all good this is America correct. And no one should be discriminated based on any of these items i listed and no one should be complaining about being violated if it’s something that falls into the category of the Constitution such as freedom of speech or freedom to assemble which is basically happen with the Mayor.

    She is claiming there is a problem now because people are exercising their constitutional rights to assemble and speech, I have a big problem with that.

    So as above all the items, if you like it go do it I don’t care, you live your life your way, I will live mine my way and you know what if there are dire consequences based upon mine or your action then so be it, I own mine, you own yours and we will have to answer for those actions and we are responsible for our actions but, I should never judge others on their actions, not my business and like i stated i don’t care, if i meet you I would not be mean to you in any way what so ever because I am not responsible for who you are and what you do.

    But I am questioning the Mayor’s action only because based all on feeling now, that is all this is about and all Liberals and Democrats base and make most all decisions on emotion, and you can’t charge people with emotion. And the reason I am questioning the Mayor is not only she is acting on emotion she is intruding on these Pastor’s right to assemble and their right to freedom of speech.

  • Mike

    No Kim your confused, this was a study done recently by a medical research group out of California not a creepy doctor from Germany in WWII. You didn’t see it trust me base on what you just posted.

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  • kim schroeder

    @Sarah Pulliam Bailey Did you ever get an answer from the city?

  • Larry

    First lie: Pretending the pastors religious liberties are at issue here.

    Second lie: The pastors are immaterial parties to the lawsuit.

    Third lie: The subpoenas require any form of compulsory action by the pastors.

    The plaintiffs of the matter can easily challenge these subpoenas and force the city to explain why they would be necessary.
    http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/responding-subpoenas

    You can stop pretending these pastors are being persecuted by the big bad city government. The government is the defendant here. They are well within their rights to seek discovery of important fact witnesses whose actions relate to the plaintiff’s suit.

  • Larry

    Your question was ignorant. Since the city is the defendant, they would subpoena witnesses and information relevant to the plaintiffs. Churches and people who are using a lawsuit to try and repeal a city law.

    The pastors are relevant fact witnesses related to the plaintiff’s actions. They may not be parties to the suit but they are an integral part of the actions of people who are.

    Mosques have zero to do with it because they aren’t parties to the suit nor related as possible witnesses for them. You were attempting to pretend the city was specifically targeting Christians and conveniently ignoring Muslims. Pure martyrbaition.

  • Larry

    A group of Christians who were allegedly aided by the pastors in political activities to repeal the current law. They are vital fact witnesses who would not be able to be compelled to provide evidence in a civil suit any other way.

  • Larry

    Rob, you really don’t have a clue. Churches are not being subpoenaed here. We have individuals acting as political activists who happen to use a church as a forum. The pastors are not being penalized for their sermons.

    This is a CIVIL SUIT initiated by these “Christians” opposing the city ordinances. Since the pastors may be material fact witnesses and are not part of the suit, subpoenas are the only method to obtain their testimony. The Courts cannot compel them to appear any other way.

    Anyone who is a material fact witnesses to a lawsuit can be subpoenaed. It has nothing to do with personal liberties. Its just the procedures of civil actions.

  • Larry

    You don’t read too well galt. The church acted in a specifically political manner in the petition process. That makes them fact witnesses for the defendants.

    If you think this has to do with morality or religious freedom, you were either lied to or have no clue what is going on.

  • tolu

    The article and the comments I’ve read seems to suggest that American Christians might need a new home soon. Seems they no longer wanted in the land of the free.

  • Kim Schroeder

    If you say you do not hate me then i’ll take you at your word. Using the word hate in the context of your reply was therefore too strong and I apologize. However, you did at least suggest something is wrong with me. As i noted else where so did I. That is the reason i left the church i could not stop ‘sinning’ so to speak because i felt myself female. I did not engage in sexual activity nor did i join gay/trans culture. I still associated with Christians. To rephrase more appropriately, most people are tired of feeling obligated to opposing. LGBT rights. They are also tied of feeling the need to treat LGBT’s as any different than they are. I practice away from the church most don’t at least in my experience. Some, usually at the market when Sunday service get’s out, decide to fulfill their Christian duty and take a stand for Jesus by being rude.

  • Larry

    The problem lays mostly at the doorstep of professional liars like Todd Starnes. A man who has never let facts get in the way of screeds pretending conservative Christians are somehow the target of persecution.
    http://www.slowlyboiledfrog.com/2014/10/about-those-subpoenas-todd-starnes.html

    “The document production is large but not unduly burdensome. It seems to be intended to produce third party evidence of the plaintiff’s actions. In any event, the scope of these subpoenas is likely to be limited by the judge hearing this case. That’s what judges do.”

  • Larry

    The Conservative Christians were never looking for the land of the free. They are looking for the land of just them. Everyone else is just a major inconvenience. 🙂

  • Larry

    Raising money for candidates from the pulpit is also a big no-no.

  • Larry

    Jane, you are getting in a tizzy over the layman use of the term party. But you are correct that the subpoena is the only way to get discovery from a non-party witness who would be considered material to either the plaintiffs or defendants. Therefore it is entirely proper to issue the subpoena to them as a form of discovery.

    Most of the comments here are completely off the mark as to what is going on. The fault lays entirely with conservative spin doctoring and conservative christian martyrbaiting.

  • Kim Schroeder

    @Mike I noted Mr Turing who was a genius mathematician who although gay was allowed to help break the German enigma code. He was anything but creepy and was recently exonerated for his ‘crime’ of homosexuality. He did no study concerning homosexuality, he was sent to psychiatric prison for it.

    I on the other had was in a study that involved chemical imbalances and a treatment using medication with counseling. I did this while in graduate school. It failed to ‘cure’ my gender issues and actually doubled my resolve i was female.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    The whole purpose of going after the sermons of these pastors is clearly to intimidate.
    Our Founding Fathers in drawing up and supporting the First Amendment clearly realized that government is far more likely to be tyrannical and threatening than any church.

  • Frank

    Wake up Christians. Your freedom of faith is disappearing. Stand up and speak boldly.

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  • Jack

    One more bit of evidence of how we’re becoming two nations within a nation…..

    Not good……not good at all, at least not for those of us who believe the United States is worth preserving.

  • Jack

    Frank, it’s a lot simpler than that.

    People need to vote on election day. The right to vote is precious for any one, and those who don’t vote ought to be ashamed of themselves.

  • Jack

    Not going to happen, Cassandra. Jews are liberal, Muslims vote more on economics and foreign policy than on social issues, and “orthodox” Christians don’t bother to show up on election day in big enough numbers.

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  • john r.

    Wake up. It’s 2014 already.

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  • Janet Ambrose

    According to God, all of us have sinned and we all come short of the His Glory.That is where His Grace comes in. Without His Grace, we would all go to hell. Thanks be to the shed blood of Christ, we have Hope. Yet, we will not all be saved. According to God, few will enter in through the Gate–narrow is the gate and few there be that finds it.. Even the demons believe, but tremor. Belief is not enough. We must obey God. Throughout the Old and New Testaments we learn that God requires obedience. We can not pick and choose which scriptures we want to believe. We should all be ashamed of each and every sin we have committed. I have cancer and may not have long to live. If I continue in my sins and refuse to repent of my sins and if I do not turn away from my sin, God’s Grace will not cover my sins. God knows the heart of men. If my heart is not in the right place, no amount of works or grace will be sufficient. If I do not obey God in all things, then I have not fully surrendered my heart to Him. As it is said in scripture, it is better to be hot or cold than to be lukewarm in our faith. Yes, God is love, but scripture tell us He is God who takes vengence on those who do not obey Him. God tells us that if we our guilty one sin, we are guilty of all sins. No sin is so little that it does not matter to God. However, God teaches us that certain sins are against nature and that he abhors such sins. We know from scripture that the wage of any sin is death. We need to take our sins as seriously as God does and not try to justify any. God teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman. So it puzzles me how any homosexuals could claim to love God and yet not obey Him. After all, He says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” It really does not matter what any of us thinks, only Truth matters, and God teaches us that He is truth.

  • Sarah Pulliam Bailey

    Hi Kim,
    I posted any statements in the story, but I haven’t heard much, no. I suspect this will continue to evolve.

  • Greta Hoostal

    The actual truth is a LOT more unpopular today than that. ANY sexual act done not with the intention of procreation was once called in Russia ‘the destruction of a soul’! Even John Calvin said on the subject (about Onan specifically), ‘For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring. The impiety is especially condemned, now by the Spirit through Moses’ mouth, that Onan, as it were, by a violent abortion, no less cruelly than filthily cast upon the ground the offspring of his brother, torn from the maternal womb. Besides, in this way he tried, as far as he was able, to wipe out a part of the human race.’ Martin Luther called such wasting of seed ‘a sin far greater than adultery or incest’.

    The Church Fathers preached it like this:

    ‘God gave us eyes not to see and desire pleasure, but to see acts to be performed for the needs of life; so too, the genital [’generating’ …from ‘genete’, Greek for ‘birth’] part of the body, as the name itself teaches, has been received by us for no other purpose than the generation of offspring.’ —Lactantius Firmianus

    ‘To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature.’ —St. Clement of Alexandria

    ‘But I wonder why he set Judah and Tamar before us for an example, unless perchance even harlots give him pleasure; or Onan, who was slain because he grudged his brother seed. Does he imagine that we approve of any sexual intercourse except for the procreation of children?’ —St. Jerome, Against Jovinian

    ‘For thus the eternal law, that is, the will of God creator of all creatures, taking counsel for the conservation of natural order, not to serve lust, but to see to the preservation of the race, permits the delight of mortal flesh to be released from the control of reason in copulation only to propagate progeny.’ —St. Augustine, Against Faustus

    ‘For necessary sexual intercourse for begetting is alone worthy of marriage. But that which goes beyond this necessity no longer follows reason but lust…[T]hey [must] not turn away from them the mercy of God by changing the natural [i.e. regarding natura, or birth] use into that which is against nature, which is more damnable when it is done in the case of husband or wife.’ —St. Augustine, The Good of Marriage

  • Greta Hoostal

    I’ve been wondering whatever happened to all that ‘anti-bullying’ instruction the government is supposed to be promoting… (–_^)

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  • John

    Well this is easy to take care of : LOSE the 501 C3 ( Tax exempt) chains of government abuse, manipulation and falsehood and speak the truth!

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  • John

    BUT living INCORRECTLY DOES ! Unrepentant sinning leads to damnation as Romans Chapter 1 clearly says. You now have two counts against you including lying about the doctrines of Christ. 1Ti 1:9-10 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
    Your utterly over simplified and INCORRECTLY misused the biblical principle of salvation by GRACE and NOT by earning it through GOOD WORKS, does NOT allow you to JUSTIFY your sinning as OK ! LOVE without TRUTH is neither LOVE nor truth.
    Yes Christians DO communicate the penalty of sin to others ( i assume you meant: others than practicing homosexuals) equally, you simply carry it on your sleeve. OUR GOD is both a God of LOVE and in righteousness a CONSUMING FIRE. You appear to be as reprobate as Romans chapter 1 says people become when they seek to deny the God of the bible and his righteous judgements.
    Rom 1:21-32 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, (23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; (29) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, (30) Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, (31) Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: (32) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

  • Roselind Berry

    Anti-bullying only counts when the bully is straight and the victim is gay. It doesn’t matter if the straight KNEW the vic was gay, so long as the gay can convince the POWERS THAT BE of the alleged motivation.
    When I was a child, I learned something important about not being a vicitm of a bully: is you whine and cry and run for help, you are making it fun and you will be bullied again. If you don’t want more of the same, don’t reward the bully. You don’t have to fight back, just stand your ground. If anyone seriously wanted to stop the bullying of gay kids, they would tell the gay kids to stand up, just passively resist, save the tears for later, and thus take the reward away. It is evident the plan is to provoke more trouble by teling the gay kids to whine, cry, holler for help, run to adults, and generally mke it rewarding to the kind of kids who enjoy making other kids cry.
    There is another good strategy for dealing with bullies. Pray for them! I figure there is something broken in a person who is so disgusted with themself they have to try to drag others down to their level, someone is so much pain they feel compelled to inflict pain. We can all do this about bullies in and out of schools, domestic abusers, rapists, murderers, etc. Why not pray for this benighted Mayor who is acting the bully now?

  • Roselind Berry

    I have a busy life, which doesn’t leave much time to go around condemning others. However, this is how I see the ordnance. Some people feel at odds with their bodies and don’t want to use the restrooms designated for people of those kind of bodies. Will using the restroom for the opposite sex solve this inner conflict? I doubt it. I think it must be deeper than something to superficial as that. However, I know for certain that as a woman comfortable with my own body, I do not want to encounter men in the ladies, no matter how they might feel about being male. I just don’t see enough benefit to the gender-confused person to justify changing something that has worked for most people for a long time.
    I don’t care if he/she is staring at me because he/she wants to have a big bounteous bosom like mine, adn wonders how I got it, or because he wants to fondle me, I am not going to be comfortable with someone who looks male, or stands to urinate, or has five-o-clock shadow, using the stall next to mine. Frankly, I never liked changing in the girls’ locker room, either, when I could see that the rest of the girls were girls. So, if I lived or shopped in Houston, I would oppose this new setup, as unfairly discriminating against heteros, without any demonstrable benefit to anyone else.
    Kim, now that you look female, would you welcome being ogled by a man? Would you want to be measured, to be compared, to be made naked in a man’s mind? Do you want to be reduced to a piece of meat? That would seem to defeat the purpose of of the sex change. Ok, you might like to get a brief appraisal as a signal that you’d arrived at looking as girly as you feel, but I’m talking about a quick glance of approval, but the equivalent of comparing penis sizes. Somehow, I doubt you ever enjoyed being compared to other boys or men, and found lacking. So, please, understand that women who have always been women do not want to start being mentally undressed, measured, and catagorized by men who just discovered the opportunity to use the ladies and get a free show.

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  • ruby douglass

    Sarah Puliam Bailey, do you have any idea why these 5 churches were singled out?

  • ruby douglass

    Sarah Puliam Bailey, do you have any idea why these 5 churches were singled out?

  • Alvin Longshaw

    Every child of God need to preach the Words of God, Homosexual is abomination before God, I use to be a homosexual myself and I knew it was wrong in God eye sight, so I cried out unto The Lord to help me with this stronghold that is over my life and when I tell you That God step in and change my life, Jesus did that thing for me, yes He did.

  • The fact that no Muslim Mosque’s were served with a subpoena makes it a witch hunt.

  • Syd

    While I don’t agree with the issuing of the subpoenas, the Bible clearly commands Christians to submit to their governoring authorities. I am really surprised John Piper doesn’t get this.

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  • Paul

    Kim, I weep at the thought of the course the Church has taken against those who live or believe differently. I am constantly reminded by Scripture of the love that Jesus showed everyone. The churches that appeal to me are the ones that preach love, not sin. My gosh, the world already knows what the Church is against. Let’s start showing them what we are for. As Jesus illustrated, we should show love and true concern for our fellow man/woman.
    Kim, as a fellow evangelical, I embrace you, I love you, and I have compassion for the mayor of Houston, who just wants equal rights for all people, including homosexuals. I personally know pastors who repeatedly turn their backs on members of the homosexual community, and that is a sin- pure and simple.
    Like my wife said at the breakfast table this morning, “I would gladly turn over my notes and CDs of my sermons. Maybe there’s something there they need to hear.”
    Separation of church and state? The church needs to be grounded in love and transparent. Jimmy Swaggart? He and his son Donny are damaged goods. They have no room to speak, judge or pastor a church.
    The mayor of Houston is fighting for what she believes is right, and for the rights of all citizens of her community. Is anyone being threated by the hangman?

  • It seems a couple things are in play. The refusal by the Mayor’s office to approve signatures to bring the “bathroom bill” to a city wide, possibly a state wide vote for approval, which may still be illegal- verses the potential for the Mayors office to call in the IRS per the possible abuses from non-profits leaders under the 501 3c exemption related to lobby/campaigning against any type of legislation. They are allowed to teach, inform the public, but not be partisan per the IRS rules…

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  • Jake

    Dallas has the ebola virus while Houston has the eGAYla virus – and both can mess up Texas! The heat-obsessed Mare (!) of Houston needs to Google “USA – from Puritans to Impure-itans!”

  • TWBDB

    Thank you Larry. It took a long time to actually uncover the true reason behind these subpoenas. The lawyers defending the City of Houston, right or wrong, sought the subpoenas as part of a discovery of evidence process in a pending law suit against the city.

  • TWBDB

    Wow ! Thank you Dee. Someone rational….quite rare.

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  • Dave Vierra

    The LGBTQ and whatever letters they include . . . are purely intolerant of any dissent or dissenters. They are the true bullies here. The Rainbow Idol community could simply start and run their own denominations and have at it to their haerts delight. But, they choose to harass and bully Christians that dare not show worship of the Neo-Roman order.

  • Dave Vierra

    Christians face a horrid environment now. The mindless hatred of the Humanist/Atheist/Secularist hordes, that are connected completely with the LGBTQ and whatever other letters they include now mobs. . . have no conscience to their desires to crush the freedoms of Christians. This is an amazing occurrence, watching Christians being returned to the days of persecution. History repeating itself. But of course denied as scuh by the academic elites. (Of course) Remember, Nero WAS AN LGBTQ activist. And no matter the fresh face of Matthew Vines or the drooling mug of a 21st century pederast (Sappho included), the “LGBTQ Community” is the same old Sodomites rising as one to punish any dissent of their sexual demands.

  • Dave Vierra

    The Gaystapo will enforce the “National Socialism” (eh-hem) of its Democratic leadership. When is ChristianNact going to happen? We know it’s coming.

  • Dave Vierra

    You can form your own denomination and see if gay behavior will take its place next to real Christian orthodoxy. You have the freedom to invent any new religion that you want to. There is no reason to attack decent Christians that will not subvert the Gospel for their sexual pleasures to be showcased and forced to be “affirmed.” Though I will never support such a religious departure from truth, tolerance is not the same as hate.

  • Dave Vierra

    Truth is seen as a hate crime when dealing with the rabid demands of the gay pride movement. And as can be seen by the threatening behavior of Houston’s Sapphic ruler, Christians will suffer at the hands and lawyers of the gay pride movement.

  • Dave Vierra

    But when you live as a Christian should, Act like a Christian should. Preach like a Christian should.

    You are called a homophobe and hateful bigot.

    The bad guys here are the gay activists that hide their drooling hatred of Christians behind agenda-invented anti-Christian and pro homosexuality laws

    That’s just reality.

  • Dave Vierra

    @Kim,

    Whatever YOUR condition is, Christians have the right to reject LGBT domination and infiltration of power over them and to seek Christ and holiness as did the authentic Christians that followed and follow the faith delivered only once to the Saints.

    davevierra2@gmail.com

  • Dave Vierra

    Then invent Trans bathrooms.

    So simple. So honest. So effective.

    But that doesn’t bully Christians huh?

  • Dave Vierra

    Jesus RE-DEFINED and RE-ASSERTED that “MARRIAGE” (for THIS reason) is man and woman husband and wife. FROM God at the beginning! It is dishonest to sat that Jesus affirms or affirmed homosexuality in any guise out of silence of it. Didn’t California just pass a law about YES MEANS YES? That man made law is about silence NOT being affirmation.

    A very large sign of the times.

    Read it please.

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