Synod: “All good!” * Bible Quiz! * Sermon Subpoenas: Wednesday’s Roundup

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(1953) Television stars Lucille Ball and husband, Desi Arnaz, hold 10-week-old Desiderio Alberto Arnaz, after he was baptized by Father John Hurley of Our Lady of the Valley Catholic Church near Hollywood, Calif. The infant attracted nation-wide interest when he was born on the same day that "I Love Lucy" depicted the birth of a son to Ball. Religion News Service file photo

(1953) Television stars Lucille Ball and husband, Desi Arnaz, hold 10-week-old Desiderio Alberto Arnaz, after he was baptized by Father John Hurley of Our Lady of the Valley Catholic Church near Hollywood, Calif. The infant attracted nation-wide interest when he was born on the same day that "I Love Lucy" depicted the birth of a son to Ball. Religion News Service file photo

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Houston wants homilies, and that's not a good thing. The latest from that wild and crazy Vatican summit. Did Archbishop Chaput really tell a Catholic pol he could support the death penalty? Mental illness and houses of worship.

  • Archbishop Chaput really tell a Catholic pol he could support the death penalty?

    Why wouldn’t he? The Church has not manufactured and bound its communicants to any particular view of capital sentences. The statements of bishops on most social questions are advisory only, including this one.

  • Karla

    It’s good that Perkins/others want to stick to church teachings! We are to
    welcome people but at the same time stick to what the Bible says. All sin is
    bad not just gay marriage and abortion. 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 lists drunkards,
    slanderers/gossips/liars,theives,swindlers,coveters/the greedy,idolaters,the
    sexually immoral as people who will not inherit the kingdom heaven unless
    they Repent! Ephesians 5:18 says don’t get drunk! 1 Corinthians 6:10 says
    that all drunkards go to hell. The wine that Jesus made was diluted and the
    Bible says don’t get drunk on strong wine/don’t get drunk with wine for it’s
    debauchery! Being mean/sharp tongues,gambling,jealousy,pride,taking the
    Lords name in vain all need to be confronted as well. The new thing is the
    person says something mean and then laughs after like that makes it okay
    or says “I was just joking” to try to cover it up. It’s the same with having sex
    before marriage. People sleep around get married thinking they covered it
    up but never Repent/agree that premarital sex is wrong! We must Repent!

  • Doc Anthony

    You don’t have to be Catholic or a member of Gallagher’s NOM, to understand that Catholicism has been seriously BETRAYED this week. It’s really happening, and it cannot be ignored.

    Thanks, Mr. Francis. Mission accomplished. Obama says, “Good job dude.”

  • Ugh, those *&^%$ subpoenas. The city of Houston is the DEFENDANT in a lawsuit

  • Larry

    “The AP’s Rachel Zoll has the story here, and she says it’s an uphill battle for religious groups.”

    Because for the past 50 years, there is no legal right to engage in business discrimination. Plus many people have a problem with turning 14th Amendment equal protection under the law and 1st Amendment free exercise of religion into a joke. Sorry bible thumpers, refusing business to gays makes you more like the KKK than Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

  • Larry

    If Todd Starnes is giving the story, you know its bovine scatology.

  • Pingback: Synod: "All good!" * Bible Quiz! * Se...()

  • Jack

    No, Larry, the 1960s civil rights laws did not deal either way with the matter of homosexuality. The gay rights movement came after that era.

  • Larry

    Wrong Jack.

    Business discrimination is business discrimination. The act itself is wrong. It doesn’t matter who you do it towards. Its the reason all of those whiny business owners are receiving judicial penalties for their actions.

    In fact the same exact tactics and arguments used by those supporting segregation and racial discrimination are used by the anti-gay crowd. Yes, even the religious arguments.

  • The Great God Pan

    “But on the other hand … Uh, wait, is there another hand here?”

    Yes, there is. Let me provide it for you:

    On the other hand, church sermons are not protected by any kind of confidentiality laws and there is really nothing audacious about subpoenaing them. Private communications (such as e-mails) are subpoenaed all the time, and sermons aren’t even private. They’re speeches delivered in a forum that is open to the public.

    Evangelicals are engaging in rather blatant special pleading here.

  • The Great God Pan

    “[h]e claims that the former archbishop of Denver, Charles Chaput …once told him it’s OK for a Catholic to support capital punishment.”

    He probably meant only for homosexuality, not murder.

  • Doc Anthony

    Larry essentially insists that Jewish bakers bake those Swastika Cakes (or else suffer serious government penalties for “business discrimination”), when the local Aryan Day Celebration customers walk in and request the bakers to bake such cakes for them.

    Yes, that IS what you are insisting on Larry.

    You really WANT those KKK klavern regional delegates to ask Black American bakers to bake those burning cross cakes for their convention, isn’t that true?

  • Doc Anthony

    Pan was never into the First Amendment anyway.

  • Larry

    No Doc.

    As usual bad analogy is the tool of someone without a legitimate point to make. Why bother arguing something on its own facts when you can make up ridiculous analogies and debate them instead.

    Its not their religious conviction which prevents them from providing the business, it is good taste. Plus nazis have never been a group of people subject to organized efforts of discrimination. But given your rhetoric, I can see why you sympathize with them so much. 🙂

    Besides, many Jewish bakers WOULD make the nazi cake if the money is right and they have the proper molds for it. Just like many Jewish attorneys defend the right of neo-nazis to engage in free speech. Its the principle of the matter. 🙂

    What you are saying is a restaurant saying “whites only” is perfectly OK with you. So much for the legacy of the civil rights movement.

    Doc, its amazing how you don’t find it the least ironic that the actions you advocate used to be used to keep you from patronizing businesses back in the day.

    The problem these alleged christian businesses have is they are so deranged by bigotry that they act maliciously towards the gay customers and use religious belief as some form of excuse. If these morons would have just acted in a civil manner and politely refused the business for some lame plausible excuse, they would not have been sued or the cases would have been harder to litigate.

  • Larry

    Its a civil lawsuit initiated by political groups these pastors supported. The 1st Amendment does not apply here. Rules of evidence and civil procedure do.

  • Doc Anthony

    Hey folks! Halloween is coming. You remember that Satanist group that made waves in Oklahoma recently? Suppose they want to celebrate the upcoming holiday with a 4-foot pentagram-shaped Satan Cake, featuring a likeness of Old Scratch himself.

    And suppose they want a local Christian-owned Ma-and-Pa bakery to make their cake to help them celebrate Satan, precisely because they heard that the local bakery was owned by practicing Bible-believing Christians.

    (And also precisely because one of the devilers read this thread and suddenly realized that Larry NEVER DID DENY that he actually supported the government penalizing non-subservient Jewish and Black bakers for “business discrimination” if the Nazi’s and the KKK’s didn’t get their requested Swastika Cakes and Burning-Cross Cakes.)

    So, inspired by Larry’s support for a soon-coming gay-fascist government that would openly repeal the Jewish baker’s and Black baker’s constitutional religious freedoms, the Satanists now decide they want a piece of the pie — err, cake — as well.

    Hence their visit to the Christian-owned Ma-and-Pa bakery on Halloween, and their blackmail demand against Ma and Pa to either do their Pentagram Cake with Satan’s picture on it, or else they will run to the official Diversity Bullies and shut down Ma and Pa just like the gay cultists did elsewhere.

    Which leads to a question for all of us: Do you support this kind of FIVE-STAR GESTAPO MESS happening to the innocent people YOUR hometown???????

    You have Larry’s answer. You have mine as well. So tell us yours baby!!

  • The Great God Pan

    Christians think that every time they don’t like something, it’s a First Amendment issue. Sadly for them, such is not the case. The First Amendment simply does not guarantee churches immunity from any and all subpoenas. Them’s the breaks.

  • Larry

    So Doc, you are saying members of the Church of Satan are not entitled to 1st Amendment protections and may be legally discriminated against on the basis of sectarianism. Because the bakers don’t like the religion of the customer, they should be entitled to deny them services available to the public? Nope.

    I guess you have no problem if the customers were Hindu and wanted a cake for a Diwali celebration. Being good Christian bakers, they could not abide to accept work from people who are both polytheists and idolators.

    To all alleged Christians who think their religious views entitle them to violate various non-discrimination laws, go —- yourselves and the horses you rode in on. You are not taking a principled stand nor acting in a way that has ever been protected as religious freedom. Its just bigotry hiding behind religion as to give an appearance of social sanction. It is no different from the racist business owners hanging signs saying “whites only”. Plenty of them believed God forbade the mixing of races and of white people serving blacks. Evidently the lessons of history are lost on you Doc.

    Obviously we cannot have commerce disrupted by the constant intrusion of personal bigotries. Your right to religious expression ends where you do deliberate harm to others. Discrimination in open commerce is deliberate harm. Hence its a cause of action in lawsuits and government administrative law. Doc, you have no more right to discriminate in business based on religious belief as I do to use your family for human sacrifice to Cthulhu.

    “[assorted bullcrap precedes]….Larry NEVER DID DENY..[bullcrap follows]

    Because I called your analogy stupid and didn’t feel like pretending gays or members of minority religions are on the same footing under the law as the Klan or Nazis who you sympathize with so much.

    Plus I denied there was a right to refuse the service based on religious views but plenty on account of unavailability of resources for special requests.