Hillsong’s Brian Houston says church won’t take public position on LGBT issues

Let’s take a practical look for a moment at this problem of gays and the Church: Back in biblical days, people lived in caves and ate rats for dinner. They didn’t know the earth was round. How much do we think they knew about human sexuality?

The scriptures were written by heterosexual men – not Jesus, not women, not gay men – but mere mortal heterosexual males who probably had the same fears as anyone else in this modern age who doesn’t like people who are different than they are. Nature puts gay people on this planet. There will always be gay babies – maybe to cut down on over-population, maybe to cut down on the aggression of heterosexual males that lead us into wars every twenty years, etc. Edit out or ignore the anti-gay prejudice in the bible and Christianity’s problem with the issue will disappear.

Which brings me to my own personal theory: people who don’t ignore the anti-gay prejudice in the bible, don’t like gay people. I’m a Christian and I have never paid attention to it.

When asked about gays, gay marriage and the Baptist Church, Rev. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary recently said that “we would indeed have to overturn two thousand years of the church’s teaching on sex and marriage and apologize for the horrible embarrassment of being wrong for so long.”

The smart move would be to admit to that mistake. Modern science is coming closer and closer to proving that homosexuality has a genetic component. Wouldn’t it be wiser for the Church to admit it’s mistake now, with dignity, rather than later…when it is forced to?

Respectfully,
Tim Fardella
Beverly Hills, California

1 Corinthians 6:9-12 lists swindlers,drunkards,thieves,coveters/the greedy,
idolaters,the sexually immoral,slanderers/liars/gossip,homosexuality as who
will not inherit the kingdom of heaven unless they Repent! We must Repent!
All sin is bad not just gay marriage and/or abortion which so many seem to
only talk about so they don’t have to face their own sin. We all must Repent!
Being mean/sharp tongues,gambling,pride,jealousy,taking the Lords name
in vain are all sin/wrong as well. All sin is bad and all of us need to Repent!
Ephesians 5:18 says don’t get drunk and 1 Corinthians 6:10 says that all
drunkards go to hell including people who get drunk with strong wine cause
the wine Jesus made was diluted/was made for symbolic reasons plus the
Bible says don’t get drunk with wine for it’s debauchery! We must Repent!

I’m not entirely sure where I land on this issue, but arguing from Jesus’ silence is not the way to go. Jesus was silent on the issue because the overwhelming majority of his ministry happened in Jewish contexts, particularly among Jews who revered the OT Law, which is entirely clear on its position regarding homosexuality. It was a settled issue, not one that was up for discussion. Now Paul operated in a very different context, and as such was compelled to address the issue. Jesus’ silence doesn’t tell us much of anything in regards to how we should proceed with this question.

Eric-Amen/very well said! We need to stick to what the Bible/Word of God says!

Lentz is an ignoramus about the life and times of Jesus. The reason Jesus didn’t talk about homosexuality was not that homosexuality was common, but because it was uncommon in the time and place in which he lived — ie first-century Israel. It wasn’t an issue, so there was nothing to say about it.

In contrast, the apostle Paul lived in the Greco-Roman world, where homosexuality was more common. Therefore it was an issue and so Paul spoke of it.

The problem is that Hillsong is trying to have it both ways and it can’t. It calls itself evangelical, which means, among other things, that it takes Scripture to be its faithful guide to lifestyle issues. But Scripture is quite clear, both in the Old and New Testaments, in its claim that homosexual practice is sinful.

Now you either agree or you disagree with that claim. If you disagree, that doesn’t make you wrong…..it simply makes you not an evangelical….in the same way that if I believed it was okay for me to eat filet mignon, I couldn’t turn around and say I was a vegan. Words have meaning….otherwise, all conversations become gibberish and communication ceases.

Hillsong wants it both ways. It wants to back away from Scripture while still saying it is evangelical or biblical.

If it believes as the Bible does that homosexual practice is wrong, it needs to have the courage of its convictions and say so and be done with it.

But if it believes that homosexual practice is not wrong, it needs to admit that it does not believe the Bible is correct on that issue and that it is no longer evangelical.

The issue is, in the end, one of honesty and integrity…..and honesty in advertising…..if you disagree with the Bible, just admit it, rather than pretending otherwise.

The problem is that professional journalists expect a straight honest answer from people (especially professing Christians), once they have asked those Christian people a straight honest question.

When Christians openly duck the straight honest questions, (especially when their own Bibles clearly do NOT duck such questions), it simply makes the Christians look like standard fake mangy-hide politicians.

Sure, by ducking the gay marriage issue, the Hillsong CD sales will stay up. Membership numbers will stay up. None of us wants any controversy. Especially not in hostile New York.

But meanwhile, the New York Times has just succeeded in killing Hillsong’s witness to perhaps a million readers. And Brian Houston HELPED them do it !!

Jack, I agree with your words “The issue is, in the end, one of honesty and integrity”. As you pointed out “Words have meaning….otherwise, all conversations become gibberish and communication ceases”.

Honesty and integrity go hand in hand. You can’t have integrity without honesty and that is where those that believe anything based entirely on faith, faith being believing in something not only without evidence, but when opposing evidence exists.

Once the bible is looked at with a critical eye, which is the only way to honestly ascertain if it is in fact the “infallible word of god”, which is what those who believe by faith think it is, it is easily discovered it is not.

Instead of basing your opinions of others on a compilation of books written by man 40-60 years after the alleged events, many of which were not written by those they were named for, in more sharp terms “forged”, or otherwise altered afterward by those seeking to push their own agendas or just simply made mistakes in translation, then collected together 300+ years later into what you now accept as divine guidance, try to employ a little honesty, and integrity and learn the history of the creation of the document you use to base how you interact with other humans.

Honesty and integrity do have meaning.

This is disconcerting. The three points he mentions as parameters for decision making are nonsensical and culturally driven. This is the defining issue of our time and I can respect taking time to come to a position, but not based on such subjective criteria. And the whole deal about not telling people how to live and that their life is a journey is a cop-out and misleading. It places them over the biblical concepts of helping your brothers and sisters see the sin in their life and speaking into it, while seeming more compassionate and understanding. There is too much preference to be liked and approved by the world than approved by God. The only way that this is their journey is to believe that people can choose their own destiny rather that placing their life in submission and obedience to Jesus Christ. Our identity is in God, what he say about us and the life he calls us to live because of his character and his purposes in history. Softness, cheap grace, compromise and acquiescence all in the name of being liked by the culture and not offending anyone. We all lament that LGBT persons have been and are often rejected by the church, and I hope that is changing. But the best thing we can do is to tell them of their true identity and great worth in Jesus, their acceptance in his eyes, and their empowering to live the kingdom life right now under the power of the Holy Spirit. And yes, that includes understanding sin and its role in our life, along with finding victory and forgiveness along the way.

Well thought-out comment on a very difficult issue! Except that scientists HAVE discovered a so-called “gay” gene that makes individuals attracted to the same sex much like they are either right or left-handed. But just like cures for cancer or the device that gets you 200 miles per gallon of gas, the scientists have either been bought off or killed off or fear being killed off. We’ve had cures for cancer for over 60 years (mostly homeopathic going back that far, but all sorts of drug therapies in current times), but the patents are all bought up by the big drug companies…and then they just sleep on them, just like the oil companies do with inventions that will get you more gas. Now tell about evil.
But beyond that, have you ever wondered why ZERO gays have ever been “switched” to hetero, why even the “reformed” founders or leaders of the conferences, workshops, seminars on going straight have all reverted back to their gay lifestyles? It’s just not a choice for them, just as being straight was not a choice for me, and going gay has never occurred to me as an option. If you don’t believe everything was created in 6 days, then you don’t take the Bible literally; so how about cutting these fellow human beings some slack and stop reading the Old Testament on gays literally. It’s homophobia, just as the story of Adam and Eve was pure misogyny. These dudes who wrote the Bible were susceptible to societal pressures as we are now; all they did was reflect the backward thinking of their time. Don’t we know better now?

Talk about doing everything possible to protect a media empire…At least Mark Driscoll took a position. Hillsong is based on it’s music – I don’t see people queuing up to buy Lentz’s or Houston’s sermons. And as for – importance of the local church — you should have asked them about their questionable treatment of a local church when Hillsong needed a location in NYC

Well said, Scott…..but next time, please distinguish between the two Jacks on this board. You disagree with the other Jack (ie Mathys), not with me.

Earold, your views on the Bible are based on notions current among skeptics before the advance of biblical archeology and modern biblical studies which have done more to prove than disprove the veracity of the text.

Today’s writers of popular works of skepticism are recycling these old notions and circulating them among the general population which has no idea about their problematic aspect and dubious history.

I definitely favor looking at the Bible with a critical eye. I want historians and other scholars to subject it to the same scrutiny as they do other old texts.

The problem is when so-called scholars subject it to the kind of scrutiny that violates the basic rules of historical inquiry and what constitutes historical evidence — taking burden of proof and turning it on its head.

When subjected to the normal methodology employed by historians and others toward other texts, the Bible comes out very well. Put another way, I believe its contents not in spite of the supposed evidence against it, but because of the actual evidence favoring it. I spent a good deal of time on this, so I’m speaking from experience.

Honesty and integrity favor embracing, not rejecting Scripture. That at least is my conclusion, because at one point, I was looking at it with a very skeptical eye.

I really get annoyed when people say that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Don’t Christians believe that Jesus is God? This means that Jesus and God the Father will never contradict one another. This means that when in the Old Testament God prohibited sexual relation between people of the same sex, Jesus was also saying it. God word = Jesus’s word! And Jesus said he had not come to destroy the law and the prophets. He also upheld the principle of marriage between one man and one woman by referring back to Genesis. It’s absurd when Christians who support gay marriage claim that Jesus would support this compromise. The Church must not allow the world to change its view. The Church should be changing the world!

“Lentz’s wife, Laura, chimed in: “It’s not our place to tell anyone how they should live. That’s their journey.”

If by “our” she means her and her husband and their church, then I emphatically agree. I hope they do not tell anyone how to live.

If by “our” she means “everyone,” then how did it become her place to tell everyone how they should live by telling us it’s not our place.

Either way, their mouths must be stopped. Titus 1:10-11

No one is claiming those other sins aren’t sinful.

At this point any statement on LGBT issues is just a way to divert media attention from Brian Houston’s (and his church’s) morally repugnant behavior in failing to report his father’s sexual abuse of children that went on for many years.
http://boz.religionnews.com/2014/10/17/hillsong-church-abuse-unreported-perpetrator-rewarded/

Any attempt he has to claim moral authority for himself or his church is utter nonsense. Pretty much the same goes for

Frank-Good point. I just don’t think all the focus should be on just
abortion and/or homosexuality because these other sins are just
as rampid/many don’t consider getting drunk a sin when it is. So
many today are mean,gossip,get drunk,covet,have premarital sex
smoke dope,gamble and don’t think it’s sin so all sin needs confronted. Thanks for the feedback. God bless.

What Hillsong reflects is a failure to understand marriage, not just as the foundational institution of all civilizations, ancient and modern, pagan and biblical, secular and religious, but in terms of its depth and breadth from its Author’s perspective.

To treat the definition and nature of this institution as excess baggage that is secondary to the Gospel shows a profound intellectual and experiential ignorance of both marriage and Gospel.

If the leaders are married, I really can’t imagine their staying that way.

It is very hard not to conclude that these people have never experienced the depth and breadth of the faith they claim to embrace.

This subject is not as crystal clear as Christians paint. The religious leaders of Jesus’ time were so overconfident in their education, customs, and ‘interpretation of Scripture’ that they didn’t recognize God in the flesh and accused him of being demon possessed, a friend of sinners, and blasphemous. People read Pauls letters like black & white law. However, they are epistles. Paul was writing to a specific church, at a very specific time in history, and addressing very specific situations that were going on in that church. After reading about Roman/cor culture when Paul was writing his letters, I saw the way they worshiped gods of sex, completely gave into orgies, prostitution, master/slave sex, drugs, the mutalating of their flesh. When comparing that to a Gay person who is desiring someone to grow old with, a family, serving God with other believers without being looked down on, Im actually shocked people can so easily treat the 2 situations as the exact same thing and call it being “Biblical”. Romans 1 mentions gossips and slanders too but despite seeing a lot of hurtful malicious gossip in some church circles, I’ve never seen anyone removed from church or accused of not being saved. Some christians who identify as part of the LGBT community make the choice to remain celibate, and I completely respect and support that. However, it has to be their decision. It is between them and God and it cannot be forced on them. I am not gay so I truly have no idea what it must be like. Pretending like I know why people are (what i keep hearing christians do) is not what God calls us to. We are also not called to use government power in an effort to control people we personally see as “sinning” or going against God. The early church never did anything like that and Paul even made a point for us not to judge anyone in the world (1 Cor 5:12). I am not God, I do not know the hearts of everyone in LGBT community and I do not know all the science behind it. Who am I to tell someone whose heart’s desires may be exactly the same as mine (wanting to serve God with your husband/wife, raising children, being accepted by a fellowship of believers while growing in faith, desiring to love God & others) that due to something as external and temporary as their gender or marriage (Mark 12:25, Gal 3:28), they are in sin and I am not. God sees the heart. The word for “natural” Paul uses in Roman1 is the same word he uses to describe a man with long hair( we now accept that as being cultural to that time). He also describes women without head covering as a disgrace. Why not accuse all women without head coverings as putting cultural relavance over Gods word? It was Pauls letters that many unjustly used to support slavery all because of people pulling verses from the middle of his texts and out of historical context. When people pluck a very small handful of verses out, it can seem hard to wrap our heads around it. However, when you view the Bible as a whole, its incredibly clear God repeatedly uses the marginalized, imperfect people, with hearts who want to know him more in amazing ways! Even Abraham who the Bible states was saved through faith(Rom 4:3, Gal 3:6), forced a slave girl to carry his child, lived with both his wife and concubine for years, and lied twice about his relationship with his wife Sarah; putting them in a position to be guilty of adultery….BUT God =). Im curious what part of Abes marital history sounds like “Gods def of marriage”? It is God who works through us, in-spite of who we are. I do not believe God is happy with the way we have handled this and the fruit of it has been shame, depression, suicide, self-righteousness, division. People are more likely to suffer depression and suicide in evangelical homes. With actions like the “chikfila day” and so on, we have only managed to create a self righteous “us vs them” mentality….and then we wonder why people, in time of need, don’t run to us. Why don’t we trust in Gods spirit to work? Haven’t you seen His power work in your life? His power has been in my life and there are things I would not want to do today that I use to see as just fine. This is not because an army of christians personally attacked what they saw as flaws in me (that would have sent me running…esp when their flaws are so easy to see as well). It was Christ love for me and his supernatural power changing my desires. If being gay is wrong, let God reveal that to his children personally, while we come together as brothers & sisters in Christ doing our best to love God with all our hearts and love others. If it is not a sin, we will see fruit. We are not the experts, we need to stop acting like it. Let God work.

“But he declines to address the matter in public because, in part, Jesus never did.”

That lame argument should disqualify them from ministry. The argument that Jesus never said anything about homosexual behavior (or abortion, etc.) fails on several levels. If a church leader uses it you can be confident that he or she is ignorant and/or malicious.

Short version: Yes, He did say something about it, but the theological Left ignores or distorts it as they do with many things about Jesus and his teachings.

Medium version: Arguing from silence is a logical fallacy, Jesus is God and part of the Trinity that inspired all scripture, He supported the Old Testament law to the last letter, the “red letters” weren’t silent on these topics in the sense that they reiterated what marriage and murder were, He emphasized many other important issues that these Leftist theologians completely ignore (Hell, his divinity, his exclusivity, etc.), He was equally “silent” on issues that these folks treat as having the utmost importance (capital punishment, war, welfare, universal health care, taxpayer-funded abortions, etc.), He didn’t specifically mention child abuse and other obvious sins though that wouldn’t justify them, and abortion and homosexual behavior simply weren’t hot topics for 1st century Jews. And the Gospels never claimed to include everything He said. John specifically notes that the whole world couldn’t hold it all! (John 21:25) And Jesus never said anything about the “sin” of criticizing homosexual behavior, so it must be OK!

Long version: http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/what-jesus-didnt-say-3/

Tim,
Where is your evidence that people in biblical days ate rats for dinner and lived in caves? You destroyed your own argument with your first sentence because it was clearly drawn from your own vivid imagination rather than from facts. People of the Bible neither ate rats nor lived in caves. Instead they lived in houses and ate wheat, grapes, figs and olives among other things.

Great contribution, Kelly! Well said!

This is not and never has been an argument about the right of a man to have sex with another man. It is an argument about whether God exists.

Without God – a moral overseer – man is worry-free to do whatever he wants.

Nothing in life would be prohibited – everything would be man-sanctified.

The reason humanity has progressed and survived is not because it has held to human deity but because it has looked to a Supreme being for unseen spiritual power and revelation.

An example would be the concept of America – a revolutionary first in all of human history which conveys upon individuals the glorious freedom of thought and expression, which was denied for millennia but which nonetheless was conceived through incessant communal prayer and belief in an Almighty God.

Now, that very individual thought and expression graced upon humans by God is being expressed without God, in the form of human ego – in personal “rights” and preference – in condemnation of those who believe in an overseeing Creator.

Ego is a zero-sum game which states, “My way or the highway.”.

Ego knows no bounds, has no rules, excuses all for the sake of emotion, fabricates morality, and attacks the very source that allows ego its freedom.

Ego believes man is God – that God is ego.

The “Hillsong Retreat” is ego not God.

The spiritual tragedy in America today which could be our nation’s ultimate demise is allowing individual ego and personal desire to usurp the obvious nature and design of man and the unquestionable intent of our Creator.

Ego and cultural norms rebuke Godliness, so the goalposts of morality shift.

For centuries Christians have been tolerant and quiet regarding homosexuality even as the Bible condemns it. Christians have been extremely fair and unquestionably forgiving.

That forgiveness is being answered today with condemnation, intimidation, and lawsuits from less than 2% of the population who are intimidating 70% of the population who quietly stand by their venerated Christian values.

George Washington called his men his “Christian soldiers.

Ephesians reminds us this is a war.

Gird yourself. The powers and principalities are kicking into overdrive. The roaring lion is now deep in our midst.

Unsheath the Sword of the Spirit and praise God.

I love it when issues like these come to fulfillment. Where right shall be wrong and the wrong shall be right. Where iniquity and immorality shall abound. This only mean one thing, OUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH!!! The redemption to those who hold true and remain faithful to His divine words!!! Glory to God! Glory to His one and only name, JESUS CHRIST!!! Maranatha!

How about “I didn’t come to cancel he LAW and the prophets..”!!??

Jesus was a Jewish man and is the Jewish God, and He is also the Word that was revealed to the Fathers and to Moses in Sinai!!!

Moses declared by the Spirit of God that Homosexuality was an abomination to God! And Jesus didn’t come to change that!!! I fact it was so obvious that He didn’t need to speak about it! Such like eating blood, sacrificing children, incest etc.

It is just foolishness to say what these guys are saying and it’s an abominable man pleasing spirit!!

I hope they repent and change their minds!! I know God didn’t!!!

Well said, Eric. Soon we will be saying that persons who want to marry as a group (several men and women marrying and being sexually intimate with each other) have rights and are “on their journeys”. Polyamory is the next big battle. Canada and Brazil have seen several court cases. Look it up and see how influential it is becoming. Showtime has a series for it called Polyamory: Married & Dating. Sweden allows half siblings to marry. Soon our enlightened and loving Christian brethren will be saying Jesus never spoke against group marriage nor incest.

The problem is that if we do not recognise a certain act is a sin, we r unlikely to do anything about it.
I admire that you had changed certain things in ur life today what u thought was just fine in the past. But why did you see the need to change? You must have realised that what you did in the past was not right.
But if your pastor tells me that homosexuality is not a sin because Jesus did not condemn it, I would see it as totally normal n thus no need to change at all.

Hillsong? Is that even a real church?

Jesus, when Pharisees demanded He deal ‘scripturally’ with a prostitute, did not respond to them in words, but stooped down and began to write in the sand. Not only were their voices stopped, their mouths closed, but they left one by one dropping the stones in their hands as they went. Then Jesus was alone to love the girl to Himself and encourage her to go ‘and sin no more.’ Unwittingly they had brought the girl to be stoned to death but instead Jesus saved her. God in Christ Jesus alone can love a heart enough to save it. But we can bring those hearts to Him for Him to do so. That is our great commission. “Go, therefore…”

loveneverfails-Amen/well said! He loved her in Truth because He told
her to go sin no more/change her/the behavior. We are all called to
love people yes but in Truth. Bible says we all must Repent/change
our behavior. It doesn’t mean we will be perfect but Luke 13 is clear
we must bear good fruit and that fruit is fruit of Repentance not good
works because many non-believers do good works. We all must Repent!

To hose who say Jesus said nothing about homosexuality: He didn’t say anything about many subjects including bestiality, incest, and smoking marijuana – but is there any doubt what His position is? Jesus condemns homosexuality:
1 – Jesus said that He came not to abolish the law (Matthew 5:17), but to fulfill it. In other words, the Old Testament law, even in Jesus’ day, was still in force and Jesus accepted it. That is the same law that condemns homosexuality in the Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22)
2 – Jesus said that marriage, as God intended it, is the union of one man and one woman for life. (Matthew 19:4-6 )
3 – Jesus states that all sexual acts committed outside of marriage defile a human being (Matthew 15:19). Obviously this applies to premarital sex as well.

Amen Tim

MORE OF WHY THE CHURCH IS LOOSING IT’S “SALT”
At a press conference for the Hillsong Conference in New York City, Michael Paulson of The New York Times asked Brian Houston, the pastor, to clarify their church’s position on same sex marriage. But Houston would not offer a definitive answer, instead saying that it was “an ongoing conversation” among church leaders and they were “on the journey with it.”
***[A journey? What’s not clear about
“If a man also lie with another man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Le 20:13)
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. (De 23:17)”?]
Houston says that he considers three things when evaluating the topic: “There’s the world we live in, there’s the weight we live with, and there’s the word we live by.”
***[What’s to evaluate? Hasn’t God made clear what He says about this sin (and ALL sin)? Why let culture dictate what the church teaches? Doesn’t “the word we live by” say:
“Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was appropriate. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not becoming. (Ro 1:22, 24, 26-28)”]?
He notes that the Western world is shifting its thinking on this issue, and churches are struggling to stay relevant. “Whether we like it or not, the world we live in is changing.”
***[The “church” has no obligation whatsoever to stay “relevant” to the world – sin is sin – exactly the same as when Jesus was here, and when Moses was here. And what the Bible declares about it is exactly the same.
My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change.
(Pr 24:21)
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Mr 13:31)”
So what if the world is changing? God’s Word is a Rock, and it never changes to accommodate the world. Jesus IS the Word, and “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Heb 13:8)”]
The weight we live in, he added, refers to a context where LGBT young people may feel rejected or shunned by churches, often leading to depression and suicide.
***[What a cop-out! So we should let them remain ignorant of what God says and allow them to go to hell? That’s the better alternative?
When the gospel is preached appropriately in love, could it be that people “feel rejected or shunned” because they don’t want to hear what the Bible says? Could it be that they don’t want to obey what it dictates? Could it be that it will cause them to change things and habits in their lives that they don’t want to change?]
But when Houston began speaking about the word we live by or “what the Bible says,” he refused to offer a concrete position.
***[That’s what all false teachers do. This is just wavering on what God says in His word:
“Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, YE DOUBLEMINDED. (Jas 4:8)
And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, HOW LONG VACILLATE YE BETWEEN TWO OPINIONS? If the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him . . . (1Ki 18:21)”]
One problem for Houston was that the reporter’s question was literally a “yes” or “no” one – asking Houston if the Hillsong churches in New York and California, where gay “marriage” is legal, can preside over homosexual ceremonies. Houston said, “The real issues in people’s lives are too important for us to just reduce it down to a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer in a media outlet.”
***[Another cop-out. The Bible reduces it to a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer:
“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (Jos 24:15).
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (Joh 14:15)”
So it’s just, “Yes, I will obey.”, or “No, I won’t.” Yep, it’s just that simple.]
Carl Lentz, pastor of Hillsong’s New York City location, made similar statements on CNN in June, saying Hillsong in New York City has “a lot of gay men and women” and he hopes it stays that way. But he declines to address the matter in public because, in part, Jesus never did. “Jesus was in the thick of an era where homosexuality, just like it is today, was widely prevalent,” Lentz told CNN. “And I’m still waiting for someone to show me the quote where Jesus addressed it on the record in front of people. You won’t find it because he never did.”
***[What a ridiculous evasion by this charlatan! He has no idea if Jesus ever addressed this publicly:
“And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. (Joh 21:25)”,
And as though that even makes a difference. What a lame and ludicrous excuse!
He won’t even admit privately to his church members if homosexuality is sin!
I would challenge Lentz to show me a quote where Jesus said to not have sex with animals, as the Old Testament states:
“Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is abomination. (Le 18:23)”,
But I know, (or at least I would hope so), Lentz would admit this is perversion.
And it’s great how this “pastor” conveniently ignores this scripture:
“ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for CORRECTION, for instruction in righteousness: (2Ti 3:16)”
and how he dismisses a plethora of many others like it.]
Lentz’s wife, Laura, chimed in: “It’s not our place to tell anyone how they should live. That’s their journey.”
***[More excuse. Leaders are commanded by God to tell the sheep how they should live:
“All therefore WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. (Mt 23:3)
And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. (Eze 44:23)”]
The church, and I use this term very, very loosely concerning these three “leaders”, needs to stop watering down the gospel for acceptance and political correctness. Jesus said:
“If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, THE WORLD WOULD LOVE ITS OWN: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. (Joh 15:18-19)”] There’s a waiting line to get in this “church”, and many have said they just come for the entertainment.
If the leaders of Hillsong, one of the most influential evangelical ministry conglomerates in the world, refuse to draw lines on these issues, it could influence other churches and pastors to reconsider their own positions. And that is why this issue has become a litmus test for many on the left and right. Because in a moment when so much is at stake a non-statement statement is, well, quite a statement.
***[Stop trying to be the world’s friend!
“Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? WHOSOEVER THEREFORE WILL BE A FRIEND OF THE WORLD IS THE ENEMY OF GOD. (Jas 4:4)
But THE FEARFUL, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Re 21:8)”
Don’t kowtow to the wiles of the enemy! Do what the Bible says and take a stand for righteousness! If the Bible says something is sin, then sin it is. Stand up and call it that!
***[“A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a foul fountain, and a spoiled spring. (Pr 25:26)” In other words, good for nothing.
“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto falsehoods. (2Ti 4:2-4)”
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? (Lu 6:39)]

I live in South Africa. A small town named George.

And I have witnessed a gay person that was saved by grace, turned pastor, and testified his past life as sinful.

In numerous passages in the bible it declares that homosexuality is wrong.

Leviticus 18:22 ESV /

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV / 818 helpful votes

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 1:26-28 ESV

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV / 587 helpful votes

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Now I understand your comment about taking the Bible literally, but here is an idea I wish you share with you.

New International Version John1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

If you doubt in the integrity of the word, you doubt in the integrity of God. Thus in Jesus,

God who stated that He is evermore the same, non-changing. A God that has the same heart now as in the old Testament.

Where is the roots of your salvation lie then.

How then by disregarding the word of God who is God do you glorify his name – which is the only purpose of a saved born again Christian.

If you have any further questions about the Bible and its integrity, I erge you to listen to Lee Strobles, “Case for Christ” – a former atheist lawyer who investigates the integrity of the word.

I am a mere Christian, sharing my thoughts, hoping my actions will bring some light.

Good day

And God speed

Well if your read my comment again you will see that I explicitly said that he testified that his past life – thus being gay – was sinful. He is not gay any more and certainly not a pedophile. The question regarding this whole argument is not whether gay is wrong or not, but if you are at all willing to listen what the opinions are of all the other people who posted here.

Where they have left valid arguments, you have responded with cherry picking comments that resolve or testify of nothing.

So I ask you. Are you actually blogging here to resolve a dispute and further enhance your faith?

A question I think you should not answer quickly but take a while to investigate. I do not require a answer. As I receive no glory regardless of your answer. But pray that you will dispute it with God so that he who knows your heart may give you the right answer.

God Speed.

To say: ‘if being gay is wrong, let God reveal that to His children personally’ is presumptuous and a cop-out. Firstly, It presumes that those who remain in their sin are His children, something that St.John takes pains to reject.

Secondly, for those entrusted with the word of God to abdicate rebuke when there’s a clear pattern set by Jesus, John the Baptist and the apostles about how Christians should ‘have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them’.

Why not say the same of idolatry, or incest? It may surprise you that instead of leaving God to find another way to reveal the guilt of idolatry to the Athenians, we read in Acts 17 about St.Paul being incensed enough by the idolatry to dispute the practice in the marketplace.

Again, Lot didn’t simply let the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah get on with their live. We are told: ‘for that righteous man in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul day and night with their unlawful deeds’.

You invoke the Old Testament example of Abraham to make the point that God ‘repeatedly uses marginalised, imperfect people’. Abraham was before the giving of the Law and the gospel. What you’ve not said is that God demands that we respond to the insight of the written word, that Jesus described as the word of God.

In particular, St. Paul finished his speech to the Athenian city council: ‘for the times of this ignorance God overlooked, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent’.

He didn’t just wait silently for idolatry to reveal its fruit, nor for God to reveal its sinfulness personally.

I’m still in the middle of this thing but I’ve got a tiny question….where are the “thousands” of fellow christians who have changed?? Ever time I hear that number bandied about, I want to stand up and say ” where, where, where???” Until they…..and ONLY they speak about their experiences….the dialog will go nowhere. They are the ONLY ones who can share that specific experience of change. Sorry but second hand accounts are a waste of time. This is way way too serious an issue for those “allegedly, supposedly, reputedly” stories. Real scripture “truth bullets” are being fired. I wanna hear the REAL DEAL. Not just from a ton of straight conservative men and women( of which I’m one) speaking from that which we know not of. So Ladies and Gents…if we cannot present at least several hundred brothers and sisters in Christ who have changed (and yes they’d need to be strongly strongly encouraged to come out as truly changed) this discussion is a waste of what could be fruitful energy.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Homosexuality/

From a Christian poster. How do you know that homosexuality being evil is fact? Let me detour into an off ramp to get to my point that homosexuality as well as all sexual immorality is evil practice! There is proof that a God created(no matter what your belief is) all that there is; you may not want to admit it, but it exists. Atheism and agnosticism hold absolutely no water! Things are too complex for things to originate from nothing! What about things that happen continually as if sustained and maintained? What about nothing major happening from an earthwide destruction standpoint for thousands of years? That’s a long time of indescribable spectacular moments, etc. for nothing really catastrophic to happen or fall out of place when the percentages are against it. Most things concerning Earth have to maintain their proper order or change into a correct balance with everything else around it. Evolution and philosophies like it may or may not be instruments of God in part, but they are no gods nor does it explain how everything is, was, and will be. Sorry.

If you are a person who did not believe in a God before this post, now you should–as there’s no way that you can sit there[examining all around you] and “growl” against a God without it being rebellious and you doing what you want do; in fact, instead of calling it atheism or agnosticism from now on–just say, I know there is a God and I just want to do what I want to do–hoping I’m not too late. If you believe that, then you have to believe that God is good. Otherwise, what is the point? What’s the point of placing your hope in an evil god that you cannot trust? If God was bad(as the devil is–illuminati/witches/satanists/etc. worship him and are stingy; believe in sacrificing kids/killing off large populations; believe in unspeakable cruelty for kicks; delving into amoral sexual/taboo practices that your body testify are evil; and/or cursing people that offend them or even for a price; etc.), then why bother? Plus, with all that we have access to that we never take notice of, how can God be bad? At this point you may not know who God is, but you know there is One and He needs to be good natured for me to worship at all. From there, you need to go on a fact-finding mission to determine who God is! Give Christianity a sincere try as to the validity of It. Are things happening today that could possibly usher in the end time scenario spoken of in Daniel and Revelations? There are nuclear weapons galore; all kinds of biological weaponry(including Ebola); chips(mark of the beast technology possibly) can be put into you now[documentary showed that some dude allowed people to put a chip into him so that he could party for free]; and what about the uneasiness and evil alliances being formed? What about super gangs? MS-13 could probably defeat a small armed country by itself and they have been getting military training(documentary about gangs in the military). Is America supporting sin[according to the bible] enough for God to make it a pile of rubble? Sodom and Gomorrah were–to my understanding–places of sexual immorality, including homosexuality! Above is a website that tells you what the bible says about sexual immorality(sex outside of 1 marital bond of a single man and woman in which the marriage, virginity, or celibacy is broken by sex before marriage or without the original spouse[unless dead]; cheating; divorce; homosexuality; bestiality; lusting[heart for or consumed as an alcoholic] for others; etc.)

Still, If God wanted us to be homosexuals, then why does childbirth[the primary reason for having sex–society has to have children to survive] only happen with heterosexuals? If homosexuals are the way it is supposed be, then why is the female sex organ designed to be penetrated by a male sex organ and why can’t same sexes naturally do that? Why is it that heterosexuals can have sex naturally in any way that homosexuals can, but homosexuals are very, very limited in the ways that they can naturally have sex with one another? After all, a male sex organ can penetrate a bottle if it is wide enough, but only men and women can do everything sexual! Do you see what I’m saying here? That’s another way to limit your search about who God is: God whomever He is has to be against homosexuality, because He created mankind and the body is a “witness” against it! Please take special heed to what I’m saying.

What I’ve said should give you pause even if you currently don’t like Christians or don’t like being told what to do? All I’m saying is that mankind needs to find out who God is; find out that God is good; that He has a design for things and sin[homosexuality is because your body was not made for it in any shape, form, or fashion] is not it; and–once you come to these realizations–live right by the KJV bible and stand against homosexuality, sexual immorality, and sin no matter who’s doing them, as you don’t want One who controls and masters everything that is–including the universe as well as the present and future–to unwind His wrath upon America! It’s poison for a country and the world!

Don’t be one of those people that ignores danger coming and idly sits by passively or in support of something because someone you respect does it; because of short term promotion; fear; or because you are one of those who jumps on the bandwagon of almost every new and popular thing! If God curses something, it is cursed indeed! Don’t like evil policies destroy us and you, too! God is watching!

I’m now sad because of Hillsong. In God’s eyes homosexuality is a sin, because He created the marriage for a man and a woman. Just read Romans 1. Jesus is the way, there’s noone beside Him, as Hillsong says. But Jesus didn’t let the people live as they want, to live their own lives, He helped them to become the people the Father dreamed them. And homosexuality is not the Father’s dream. It is someone else’s work. And we are free of sin.

Blessings for all of you,
Balázs from Hungary

So they must stop preaching Gods word period. What topics are they preaching about if they are not teaching from Gods word. If we are not to instruct others as to how God intends for us to live there is no point in having a church. Its each individuals journey, right? Cowards, God called sin out throughout his word.