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  • Lamanite

    How effective is this though? No atheist worth his salt can fall for such a religion. Those boys and girls should be taught more about the dark side of the cult they are a part of- plagiarised B of M, racist history, the printing press incident, lack of evidence regarding B of M events/places/animals, etc, etc. Any Italian reading these comments, get the CES letter and /or Journal of Discourses to share with the young men and women. Don’t be cruel to them please. It’s a lot of hard work being salesmen/women for this cult.

  • Brian

    I think you are misrepresenting the Bible and Mormonism. Mormons do not believe Jesus was created, but is eternal, was the great I AM, and the creator of all things “in the beginning”. But, this is where it gets confusing. You claim Mormons are polytheists, but then you say that Jesus is part of the Godhead/trinity. Is this not polytheism? Three persons in one God, or three Gods. I see this a nitpicking personally, but I know most non-Christians see the Godhead as a polytheistic concept. As to salvation, Jesus already paid the price for sin. The question is, what must one do to accept that gift? You say works are not important, but James says faith without works is dead, and the Bible teaches that not all who cry Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of God, but he that DOITH the work of the lord. Works, do not save you (Jesus did) but being disobedient to the commandments of God will damn you. And lastly, the Bible says not to just repent, but to repent and be baptized (a work?) to be saved.

  • Karla

    Brian- The Trinity is one God not three. It’s God with the three parts but
    are one so when you say that Jesus is not part of the Godhead that is
    when you seperate yourself from Biblical Christianity. No true prophet
    can be revered if they are a liar and Joseph Smith was/is a proven liar.
    Luke 13 says we must bear good fruit so if people do charity works yet
    are still sleeping around/sexually immoral/getting drunk/a drunkard they
    are not saved. Works don’t save only Repenting/trusting Jesus saves!

  • Karla

    Brian-Two guys were next to Jesus on the Cross and only one of the guys
    went to heaven because only one of the guys Repented/had a change of
    heart about their/his sin. Only Repenting and then trusting in Christ saves.
    Bible says Repent and believe the Gospel to be saved. We must Repent!

  • Jonny

    Non so tutto, pero’ io so che il messaggio che questi missionari portano alla gente e’ un vero messaggio. Se vedete questi missionari mormoni per strada o sull’autobus, dovresti chiedere cosa fanno e come mai sono venuti da lontano per condividere il loro messaggio. Anche se non ci si crede, e’ ovviamente importante per loro. Sentire i loro sentimenti al riguardo chiarirà molte domande riguardo alle loro credenze ed alla loro religione.

  • Karla

    Bob-God/Jesus are very real! Read Romans 1:18-32. I’m sorry if
    someone hurt you. You are loved by Christ. Psalm 118:8 says it’s
    better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man so people/man
    will always let you down if you only look at them. Look to God/Jesus.

  • Bob

    And Krazy Karla, while you are still referencing your vile holy book AKA the bible, let’s take a look at some of the nasty guidance purportedly from your sky fairy that’s in it. From both foul testaments, and note the text about context and interpretation issues:

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
    18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    1 Timothy 2:11
    “Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.”

    Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    Leviticus 25
    44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
    45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
    46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

    Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don’t get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

    Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it’s in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god’s mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

    And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your “god” couldn’t come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken “out of context”, and has so many mistakes in it.

    So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish superstitions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

  • Bot

    A literal reading of the New Testament points to God and Jesus Christ , His Son , being separate , divine beings , united in purpose. . To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane, and Who was speaking to Him and his apostles on the Mount of Transfiguration? The Nicene Creed”s definition of the Trinity was influenced by scribes translating the Greek manuscripts into Latin. The scribes embellished on a passage explaining the Trinity , which is the Catholic and Protestant belief that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The oldest versions of the epistle of 1 John, read: “There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water and the blood and these three are one.” Scribes later added “the Father, the Word and the Spirit,” and it remained in the epistle when it was translated into English for the King James Version, according to Dr. Bart Ehrman, Chairman of the Religion Department at UNC- Chapel Hill. He no longer believes in the Nicene Trinity. . Scholars agree that Early Christians believed in an embodied God; it was neo-Platonist influences that later turned Him into a disembodied Spirit. For example, it was an emperor (Constantine) . who introduced a term, homoousiou s, which defined the Son as “consubstantial” (one being) with the Father. Neither term or anything like it is in the New Testament. Harper’s Bible Dictionary entry on the Trinity says “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament.” The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views the Trinity as three separate divine beings , in accord with the earliest Greek New Testament manuscripts.

  • UberBot

    Uh huh. So which of Joey Smith’s 45 wives are you descended from?

  • Bot

    • The Need for a Restoration of the Christian Church:

    The founder of the Baptist Church in America, Roger Williams, just prior to leaving the church he established, said this: “There is no regularly constituted church of Christ on earth, nor any person qualified to administer any church ordinances; nor can there be until new apostles are sent by the Great Head of the Church for whose coming I am seeking.” (Picturesque America, p. 502.) Martin Luther had similar thoughts: “Nor can a Christian believer be forced beyond sacred Scriptures,…unless some new and proved revelation should be added; for we are forbidden by divine law to believe except what is proved either through the divine Scriptures or through Manifest revelation.” He also wrote: “I have sought nothing beyond reforming the Church in conformity with the Holy Scriptures. The spiritual powers have been not only corrupted by sin, but absolutely destroyed; so that there is now nothing in them but a depraved reason and a will that is the enemy and opponent of God. I simply say that Christianity has ceased to exist among those who should have preserved it.” The Lutheran, Baptist and Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) churches recognize an apostasy from early Christianity. The Lutheran and Baptist churches have attempted reform, but Mormonism (and Roger Williams, and perhaps Martin Luther) require inspired restoration, so as to re-establish an unbroken line of authority and apostolic succession.

  • Karla

    Bot-Jesus said before Abraham I AM! God told Moses I AM so for Jesus
    to use I AM shows He was there from the beginning as it says in the book
    of Revelation. In Colossians it says the fullness of God was upon Him.
    He was on earth to do the will of the Godhead/Trinity so while on earth
    He was subjected to go to the Cross but now He is back with Father
    and is part of the Godhead/Trinity. Godhead/Trinity is the same thing.
    The Trinity can be a bit confusing but the main thing to know is that He
    was not created/there from the start/beginning as the Holy Bible says.
    The Trinity is three in one. One God with three different parts but one!

  • “As missionaries and servants of God, we joyfully testify to them that God has always been and will always be there.”

    Religion is so cruel.
    Person is told to tell lies and other people are told to believe the lies.

    Wake up, world. Reality is so much better.

  • RTJ

    Brian, you should look into what Mormons believe before presuming to speak on their behalf or in their defence. Mormons do, in fact, believe that God the Father (who had once been human and had himself worshipped a different god in a different ‘universe’), working with his god-wives, created us as spirit beings (with an uncreated little sparkle at the core called an ‘intelligence’). Jesus was the first one they created. Lucifer was the second. You and I were pretty far down the line. After many adventures in the Pre-Existence, God had Jesus create our physical world, which Jesus would then become the god of. But he had to get a body first. Jesus was limited because, unlike his father, he hadn’t lived a human life yet, didn’t have a body, so was limited as a spirit. Really powerful gods are made of flesh and bone (not blood according to the LDS), so one reason Jesus had to come on down was to advance his career. Also, of course, Dad required the blood sacrifice of a god-man, otherwise his hands were tied and he couldn’t save anyone at all. The symbolism of the sacrificial lamb was too powerful for an omnipotent being to circumvent. Point being, you don’t seem to know what Mormons believe. You don’t seem to realise that Jesus and Elohim (LDS terminology) are two different guys with glorified, ‘translated’ bodies of flesh and bone. There’s also the Holy Spirit, since Joseph Smith was still working his way through inherited Christian beliefs and tripped a bit early on as he wove together his syncretic mishmash. The H.G. hasn’t had a body yet – that would make him less effective at his job. But he’ll get one too. Has to. Just like you, me, Jesus, Elohim and all our wives. There has been speculation that Joseph Smith might have been the incarnation of the Holy Spirit, or maybe Michael the Archangel or some other first line angel too marvelous to comprehend. In fact, though, he was just another charlatan making money (and making hay) on the gullibility of his marks. He was a genius.

  • Kimberly

    And that’s the problem with religion, instead of fostering unity and understanding as it claims to, it incited anger and breeds conflict, as is evident from the comments above. Silly and sad at the same time. Especially since there is no god. Quote science and facts, scripture proves nothing other than ignorance of what is true and real.

  • Laurie

    Amazing how so many people can have so much hate for people they know nothing about. It seems to me that there would be a better use for time than to criticize others who are only trying to do good in the world.

  • Karla

    Kimberly-Creation is proof of God. Read Romans 1:18-32. How did the world
    get here? For you to say that the world formed out of nothing and then turned
    into this great big universe with design takes more faith to believe that this is
    all just by random chance than to believe in God. A former atheist has a book
    called the Case for Christ. Lee Strobel is the author/a former atheist. If the sun
    was any closer we’d burn/any further we’d freeze. Just chance? God bless.

  • Larry

    @ Bob, stop “poking the bear”. Its a given that Christianity and the Bible itself have some rather ripe parts and makes no rational sense. Religion isn’t meant to be rational and thought out. All it does is put Karla into a “scripture dump” cut and paste.

    @Karla, there is nothing more pathetic than sectarian sniping. Saying your version of Jesus is better than Brian’s means nothing. Both of you insist on things which are only really credible for as far as you are willing to make it so.

    @Brian, its nice you want to clear misconceptions about your faith and describe its beliefs. But you also must be aware that many Christians here feel a pathological need to knock it down a peg or two without sane reflection on their own versions of it.

  • Larry

    So what makes your version of Christianity any less ridiculous than Brian’s? I am sure every Mormon of a certain age will be able to claim that scripture refutes what you said with the same level of earnestness. I am sure you can rebut with your own version.

    The truth is nobody has to take either seriously beyond what they want to believe.

  • West NorthWest

    Karla, look up “argument from ignorance fallacy”. You just committed it in your post.

    Strobel’s book has been pretty thoroughly debunked too. Look that up. The Christ story is neither credible, nor required by our circumstances, nor consistent with claimed divine capabilities.

    Not only that, but your last line is basically what is known as a tautology: Basically, if things were different, they would be different. That is certainly not evidence that supports your particular god fable; quite the opposite, in fact.

  • Larry

    The LDS is as far from the teachings of Roger Williams as you can get, short of declaring yourself the modern incarnation of the Puritans.

    Roger Williams pioneered the concept of the separation of church and state. His writings along with the works of William Penn form the philosophical basis of our 1st Amendment religious freedoms.

    The LDS actively entangles itself with politics, even in an unstated way aligning itself with a political party in an obvious fashion. The church frequently uses its resources to further political ends and to impose its will on civil society. They frequently blur the lines between religious devotion and personal aggrandizement of its leadership. Where being loyal to a given leader is considered an act of devotion to the faith.

    Roger Williams would find nothing in common with such a church. He worked his entire life opposing such things.

  • West NorthWest

    Yeah, good, Laurie. that has been true of religious people for centuries. Look at the Inquisitions by the Christians, the current acts of terror by Islamists, and so on, all acts of hate done under the dictates of their religious beliefs. Aggressive recruiting by these Mormons is less violent but does attempt to bring new recruits into their female-subservient, sexist clans, so it needs to be pushed back against too. Good for you, for speaking up.

  • Karla

    WestNorthWest-Read Romans 1:18-32. How did the world get here?
    God/Jesus are very real. All Bible prophecy like Psalm 22: 6-18 and
    Isaiah 53:3-5 came true with 100% accuracy so that is why the Bible
    can be revered/trusted because of prophecy accuracy. If Jesus was
    still in the grave why would people that didn’t even believe in Him
    lie and say the body was stolen? They lied because they didn’t want
    the Bible to be true. The same thing is happening today. The Bible
    is the Truth whether people want to believe it or not. God bless.

  • Karla

    Karla-Many people don’t want the Bible to be the Truth because they
    don’t want to be told how to live so they lie just like the the devil lied
    and was in rebellion/sin. God/Jesus are very real/Bible is the Truth.

  • Karla,

    I searched for the truth for 14 years. Everyone I spoke to tried to convince me they were right & everyone else was wrong UNTIL I met two Mormon Missionaries in Milan, Italy in 1995. I was introduced to them by a non-practicing Mormon. I was curious, read the book of mormon and found it very interesting. I wanted to know more, I was searching for the truth. The Missionaries sat down with me and told me not to believe them But to go home and pray and ask Heavenly Father if these things were true. This made sense to me, as I knew God knows everything. I got baptised a few weeks later and have never looked back.
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a very active religion. I have been put to work in a number of roles over the years and the focus has and is that of helping people with their lives. I have seen many people rescued and put back on track. The big focus is on families. I recommend you keep an open mind and visit your local chapel next Sunday: http://www.mormon.org.uk/meetinghouse
    Experiencing how a Ward works and how it helps people and families be more Christ-like is fantastic.
    If you are TRULY looking for the TRUTH you need to look into everything until you find it, believe me I looked at some really weird stuff before I found my path…
    Enjoy the journey!

  • Brea

    Mormons do read the Bible and believe it is the word of God. Please feel free to look into the truth about them at http://www.mormon.org or ww.lds.org – those are the only sites to get the facts.

  • Camille

    I’m LDS and have been my whole life and we do read the bible. We even take classes on just the bible and learn of its teachings. We do teach repentance and to become like Christ, but what better way of being like Christ than to serve others just like Christ did over 2,000 years ago. I love the scripture Joshua 24:15. Each and everyday I sin and life happens but when I serve those around me I am putting Christ first in my life and learn to love him as a brother. For me having that love helps me to make good choices in my life and when I do mess up I repent and use the Atonement in my life. I hope this might have answered some of your questions and I want you to know that I respect your beliefs as well.

  • Karla

    Fabrizio-Thank you for sharing. I believe the mormons are very sincere
    but wrong. Bible is the Truth. Read the Bible cause it says that many will
    say to Me Lord,Lord and not enter heaven! There are plenty of people
    in the Christian church that will sit down with you to talk. God bless.

  • The Maine Elaine

    Karla, you are avoiding what West said to you. You were shown to be posting fallacies, and now you just try to insert bible references. That’s a really sleazy thing to do. Also, as far as “prophecy” goes, the bible has a much poorer record at prediction than science does.

    The bible gets a lot wrong, and not just with predictions. Maybe it’s time that you stopped being a “woman of one book” and opened your eyes a lot to better sources of information, of which there are many. The National Academy of Sciences or even the National Geographic would be great starts for you. It’s ludicrous to claim accuracy for the bible when it, actually doesn’t even agree with itself frequently.

  • Calagal

    RTJ, I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints since 1976. Your explanation of what “mormons” believe is not correct. My concern is that others who do not understand the teaching of the church may believe that you know what you are talking about. So, I just want to clear the air, and say that if anyone really wants to know what we believe, they can find out by visiting lds.org or mormon.org/blog. There is plenty of answers and information there for anyone seeking the truth.

  • Calagal

    Sorry, one correction: I meant “mormon.org” as the site offering information.

  • Sam

    Hi there. I was just wondering if we all can accept the fact that we all have different views. This is a website for religious news so there will be many many things we all don’t agree on. Lighten up. We are all searching for our own happiness and if we are happy being Mormon, or Catholic, or Baptist, or anything then I don’t see a reason to be upset with anyone else here. And. Correct me if I’m wrong. But we should not be judging what others do. Especially accusing them like this. Now it is okay to talk about religious differences and to be informed. But if you are creating an argument out of it, please keep it to yourself. Thank you.

  • Steve

    So explain this if there are not Gods… Hard to be a God of Gods if there are no other gods.

    22 The Lord God of gods, the Lord God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the Lord, (save us not this day,)

  • Karla

    Steve-Bible says have no other gods before Me because the devil is real
    and tries to get man to worship false gods as he did with Joseph Smith.
    Bible says devil poses as an angel of light like he did with Joseph Smith.
    Many create a god/idol to suit themselves. Look what happened to all
    the Israelites. God spoke to Moses to lead them out/away from the idol
    they followed/were put in bondage by. The Garden of Eden man was led
    astray/followed a false god/the devil then followed their sinful desires
    after that/created a god/idol to suit themselves which is called idolatry
    and no idolater will inherit the kingdom of heaven unless the Repent!
    The God of the Bible is the only God but he knew man would make
    and create false gods/idols because of sin/the devil so that’s why the
    Bible says have no other gods before Me! There is only one true God!
    That is the God of Abraham,Issac and Jacob……the God of the Bible!

  • CMR

    @Karla, Jesus WAS created. That is why the Bible calls him “the only begotten Son” of God because God created him first. Colossians 1:15 states, “He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation”. You don’t use the term “firstborn” for someone who has no beginning and was never “born”. Revelation 3:14 (Jesus says)  “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God…” Now, GOD has no beginning, you agree, but Jesus himself here says he was created by God…. (read also Proverbs 8:22-30) The trinity doctrine came into favor, after much debate, a few hundred years after Christ and the Apostles died. This apostasy was foretold (see 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12) and it happened and has become fully established and wide spread down to our day.
    You need to do more research on your own “beliefs” before trying to straighten anyone else out…

  • Karla

    CMR-I have done the resarch and first born refers to rank over creation
    not that He was created. Revelation says He was there from the beginning
    so you need to do some more research. Jesus was not created…Period!
    Read Revelation 21 the whole chapter. The Godhead/Trinity is three in
    one! One God with the three different parts but one! Colossians says the
    fullness of God was upon Him. While on earth Jesus was subjected to the
    Cross but now He is back with the Father/part of the Trinity/Godhead.

  • Ben

    This Is the only comment, and intelligent one at that, that I have read. Thanks for restoring some faith in humanity, Larry.

    Some people just have to hear themselves talk and always assert their dominance or validate themselves.

  • vickie

    actually….you can believe all you want…but doing nothing about it..isnt going to save you either…because you kept it to yourself which means thinking only of yourself which isnt what Christ did …NO he preached the gospel far and wide…..so to spread the gospel is the idea here….we are all God’s children…and God is the head …the Father and his Son Jesus ….only begotten between HIm and mortal woman…Mary…that is what is special about the Savior …and yes he was with the Father in the begining as we all were….however the Savior is the oldest Son …or the oldest period of all of us….He accepted Heavenly Fathers plan of salvation which was to come to earth…teach the gospel and die for our sins and leave behind the Holy Spirit to guide and direct and protect us….we all have to repent and that doenst mean just say your sorry but to change your ways of living and believing…God loves us all….why? because we are His children..otherwise why waste the oldest Son Jesus life and having to come down here to save us…think about it…..I have and prayed…I know…..FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD…WORKS WITHOUT FAITH IS DEAD….

  • kyle

    I love these threads, because it turns into this Bible bashing “I know more than you” free for all and everyone is so convinced that they are right and evidently no one else is capable of understanding. It makes me uncomfortable reading all these, kinda like that feeling when you watch the office and Michael Scott does something that just makes you cringe.

  • vickie

    I was raised a catholic and then studied with southern baptists and became one and then with other religions I studied…then I became a mormon and lived it for over 35yrs and raised 5 wonderful children in this religion and two sons were on missions…I can believe what the elders are saying about the area they are in …one of my sons went to england and that place is an almost godless place as well…..they depend on the government socialism…its why we dont want it here in America…about the trinity ..well, lets see from all my study and teachings esp in the catholic church…..I understood in the begining…that there is God…..then there is his only begotten Son Jesus Christ…notice it says only Begotten Son….so how can an only begotten Son be part of Gods body…He cant…then there is the Holy Spirit….totally different then God the father and God the Son…its God the Holy Spirit….all 3 distinct persons but with the SAME PURPOSE…there you go….that is the correct definition….otherwise when Jesus was being baptized and God said …this is my Son in whom I am well pleased…..also…God is not a God of disorder ..He is a God of order….think and pray about it….God’s spirit is different then the Holy Spirit….

  • vickie

    karla Mormons know that as well….repent…change your life…but because we are not perfect….we have the SAvior Jesus Christ who by the Grace of God we can repent and be saved….I read the bible and my book of Mormon and other works….we each have a gift from God its called DISCERNMENT…so as you read pray about what you read….

  • vickie

    also karla to make you feel better…Jesus is part of God…He is His Son…just like Im part of my mom and dad….I have their dna…

  • vickie

    once again…karla…..MORMONS READ THE BIBLE..I AM READING THE OLD TESTAMENT NOW…I READ A CHAPTER A NIGHT EVERY NIGHT AND I GO THROUGH ALL MY SCRIPTURES AND NONE OF IT REFUTES THE OTHER…NO PROBLEMS…what facinates me is …why in the world are there so many people on here who arent mormon…hmmm maybe that is a good thing…MEANING YOU ARE SEARCHING..because you havent found it yet….I did years ago…in 1977 at the age of 26yrs old…and never looked back…always moving forward….smart talk wont get you anywhere..but living a life as Christ wanted you to…will….I found this in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and so did my 5 Kids….I consider myself blessed because my kids are very strong in it and NO im not a UTAH mormon..my family was catholic and still is…my inlaws are southern baptist and still are…ONE MORE THING AND THEN IM OFF THIS SITE….NOTICE YOU DONT SEE ANY MORMONS ON HERE KNOCKING ANY OTHER RELIGION….EVER WONDERED ABOUT THAT….ITS BECAUSE THAT ISNT WHAT CHRIST WANTED….HE WANTS US TO LIFT EACH OTHER UP….SO JUST THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING WHEN YOU COME INTO A SITE AND BEGIN DEGRADING OTHER PEOPLES BELIEFS…OR TRYING TO….TO ME ..THAT ISNT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST…..NITEY NITE…

  • vickie

    hey fella ….just know this….ever read the history of the lives of the prophets in the bible…..do that …and see how perfect everything was…really..man is not perfect..hense the Savior…nite

  • vickie

    Oh Oh..what bribe you gonna use to get into the gate….or will you be crying at the end…I do believe …pray see for yourself if its not true…that God does exist…

  • vickie

    dang I was going to bed….God created science…think…our world is floating…and turning….and everything is moving ….how did all that happen….imagine no gravity…scarrrrrryyyyyy…..

  • vickie

    oh oh…got me again..Im female and have no problems…none…sexist ..wow I feel cherished and so do all the sisters in our church…I love my husband…he loves me…we are very lucky…not all people are the same..so why try to make up things that you believe on a site you have or shouldnt have any interest in since you dont believe in God.as I said before….YOUR ON HERE SO YOU MUST BE LOOKING….YOU ARE NOT SURE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE THINKING…SO PRAY ..IF YOU NEVER HAVE TRY IT….ASK GOD WHAT YOU SHOULD DO..OR IF HE EXISTS AND BELIEVE ME ..HE WILL SHOW YOU..

  • vickie

    Kyle you make me laugh…haha….does it feel like home maybe….hahah…yep notice pretty much the mormons on here arent bashing…just being accused or being bashed….as I said again….why are other people on here unless they have a reason….they want to VENT…ANGER BUILT UP …or they want to know by arguing…because they are empty and want something….as stated….LIFTING UP IS WHAT CHRIST WANTED….to lift each other up…..almost sounds like our government in DC in here….and the privacy stuff you have to type in gets more complicated …

  • vickie

    whoa larry….hmmm lets go back in time…we have a prophet…yep we love him..ever listen to him speak….now go back to the apostles or prophets as they were called….they had a following….and finally politically speaking…when Christ comes again…..He will be our political leader…we will have one government and one governor…Christ…otherwise….we the people in the mormon church…have no paid clergy…we speak and take care of our church…we do it…not a layman wanting more money….we believe in working and living in the world but not succumbing to it….and a man doing things according to his own concious…spelling on that….ask a mormon….you can read all the glup you want but meet and speak to people who lived the lives of a mormon …who had families ….we support those who believe in and have our convictions…why……because we do believe in CHOICE…..

  • vickie

    karla this is for you…yes the bible is true…it has been tampered with..I took british lit and in it I couldnt believe how much it was tampered with..the catholics have other info as I was catholic I know and then when it was translated ..the people doing it tried their best and it was made to sound poetic ..pleasing to the ear….so some important things maybe have been taken out or changed..but for the most part..I find the king james version to be the best..and the book of mormon has some of the bibles teachings in it as well..isaiah…etc….so its best not to argue over religion because God didnt like religion as a whole because of the problems you see here….but to have faith and all the virtures that will draw you closer to Him …so Im getting off now for sure because we as mormons do not believe in arguing over religion or beliefs…God bless you …God does exist and so does the Savior….and the Holy Spirit….stay close to God and He will let you know all things….

  • Karla

    Vickie-Thank you for the feedback. We can agree to disagree. I believe you
    are very sincere in your beliefs but the Mormon doctrine is wrong as well
    as Joseph Smith. Jesus was not created and there is no such thing as
    preexistence! You don’t need the book of Mormon/Joseph Smith..just Christ!

  • Karla

    We have our conscience which means with knowledge and also the
    Word of God/Bible. God gave us our conscience to know between right and wrong. God wrote it on all our hearts to know what is right and wrong plus we have the Holy Bible so good works are all like
    filthy rags to God cause obedience is better than sacrifice. If you
    say you love Jesus then don’t follow the Bible/religion no Truth is
    in you! It’s not enough to just believe in Jesus. We must follow Him!

    The Bible is the Word of God .The Tritnity has the three different
    parts but are one in the same! Read Revelation 21/whole chapter
    which says Jesus is the first and last/the beginning and the end so
    if Jesus was there from the beginning that means He wasn’t created.
    Jesus said before Abraham I AM! God told Moses I Am so for Jesus
    to use I AM shows He is co-eternal with God/Holy Spirit/Godhead.
    First born over creation refers to rank not that Jesus was created.
    Colossians says the fullness of God was upon Him yet Jesus was
    subjected to go to the Cross for our sins/fulfill Bible prophecy so
    while on earth He did all what He was called to do as part of the
    Trinity/Godhead/now He is back is heaven/knows when He returns.
    The Trinity/Godhead can be/get confusing but it is three in one.

    Christ came to fulfill the law not to abolish it so yes we are under
    Grace but that does not nullify the law of that we need to follow it.
    Jesus said many will say to Me Lord,Lord and not enter heaven so
    we need to Repent/read the Bible/follow the Truth/Jesus Christ!
    Bible says Repent/believe the Gospel to be saved. We must Repent!

  • Tony

    Reading the Bible would be good…very good. When you read, what do you think about the part where Jesus is praying in the Garden just before his crucifixion, do you actually think he was praying to himself? And when God spoke from heaven at the baptism of Jesus, was Jesus just trying to fool everyone by being a ventriloquist? And when Stephen was being stoned to death, did he see Jesus standing on the right hand side of himself, or did he see TWO individual beings…while at the same time being filled with the Holy Ghost? And when the Apostle Paul talks about baptism for the dead, what wo many as he talking about? Do you even have a clue? There are just so many things in the Bible that non-LDS people never seem to see or understand.

  • Karla

    Tony-You need to read the whole Bible not just part. If you were to read
    the Bible it says Jesus is part of the Godhead/Trinity which is three parts
    but are one. Again…three different parts but are one. While Jesus was
    on earth He was subjected to the will of the Godhead/Trinity to go to
    the Cross/fulfill Bible prophecy. Your mormon doctrine is false and so
    is your so called “prophet” Joseph Smith so you really need to take a
    long look in the mirror/do some more research/do some Bible studying!

  • samuel Johnston

    Mormon missionaries draw cartoon depictions of their cartoon religion. How appropriate! Now they can have a cartoon holy book to go with it. The only thing serious about their religion is their desire to control others.
    Seeking the truth is laudable, but claiming to have found it, is self delusion.

  • Larry

    Vickie, your church is as far from the teachings of Roger Williams as you can get. It was inappropriate of Bot to make a connection between the two.

    Williams was one of the pioneers of the notions of the separation of church and state. That to have one’s religion entangled with the political system undermines and destroys the credibility of both. The “wall of separation” came from him a century before the American Revolution and was the basis for the foundation of the first American colony set up specifically as a refuge from those fleeing religious persecution of any type.

    The LDS Church as an organization insists on seeking political power and emeshing its faith with the machinations of partisan politics. It makes the church look petty, venal and unspiritual in nature. More importantly it creates situations which attack the credibility of political power by encouraging sectarian discrimination either intentional or unintentionally.

    By doing so it also undermines credibility of its defenders. It gives the appearance of being henchmen rather than the faithful. I am not saying you are, but it gives such accusations a level of credence which is probably undeserved.

    That being said, the Mormon faith obviously works for you as a belief and you find joy in it. Good for you! When it comes to a religious belief, that is the only criteria that really counts.

    Your faith and belief is no more or less ridiculous than the Christians who are trying to denigrate it. It is silly to make sectarian appeals. Why one sect is the one to take seriously and the other isn’t.

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  • Chel

    As I read the posts, for those who are atheist, I cannot comment to you, for those who are Christian, as you bash someones beliefs think about what Jesus Christ would do. In the Bible he never condemned someone, he never belittled them, nor did he make them defensive about their beliefs. He loved them, he served them, and then commanded those who followed him to follow his example. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. In Article of Faith 11 it says “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.” We believe we have the truth and want to share it. We share by example, by love and by service. Not by name calling, anger and hatred. As for those saying look to the different church histories and the violence and bad that has happened, that is mans doing. Man is not perfect, only God and His Son, Jesus Christ. Our job is to learn to be like our Savior Jesus Christ and love and serve our fellow men. As I am sure many will tell me I am wrong and put hateful comments to me, but that is ok. We have been given our agency to do good or bad, I pray that I can use mine for good.

  • Karla

    Chel-Read the whole Bible. Jesus rebuked people all the time and
    the harshest words that He had were for the pharisees/the religious
    so called “leaders” who were such hypocrites. We are to love people
    yes but in Truth. We have to read all of the Bible. We can’t just skip
    and gloss over the tough parts. Love people yes but in the Truth.

  • Papà Dilbert

    And the Jews considered Christ to be a leader of a cult. He still is, alive and well. That is the message of these missionaries around the world. When you get it, you get it. If you don’t, you will. Be patient. Until then, be respectful…a simple request.

  • Wendy

    Larry, don’t wimp out like that. It’s great for people to speak out openly and oppose wingnuts like crazy Karla, who sure won’t get poked any other way.

    Hiding under a blanket of silence is a sure way to get your views trampled on.

  • Bob

    vickie, your whole Jesus-sacrifice-saving story, the apparent foundation of your beliefs, is a steaming pile of nonsense. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

  • hoffbegone

    Reality is NOT so much better. I used to be atheist/agnostic. Please tell me the purpose of life and why we are here. You have no answers for those kinds of questions. Even traditional Christians don’t have answers to such basic questions. Hence, this is THE difference between Mormonism and other religions.

  • larry

    Karla is far too much of a cut and paste junkie to consider giving much thought to a response. Its like trying to scold a cat. They either won’t understand or just don’t care.

    Prudence and sanity dictate that you walk away from crazy, not indulge them. Any sane person can see her posts for what they are.

  • hoffbegone

    The trinitarian god is a split personality god and does not make sense. It ain’t in the Bible. All or most of the founding fathers of the United States rejected it.

    Jesus knew who his Heavenly Father was and said we needed to know His Father, also. Mormons do. Trinitarian religions don’t.

    There is only one way to understand the whole Bible and that is to read and comprehend the whole of it under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

    Trinitarianism was the only way apostate Christians could make their religion monotheistic. It was their way to mitigate persecution in this regard because up until that time they had no way to explain God and Jesus as a god.

  • hoffbegone

    Vickie: me, too. I was catholic, all my family was and most still are. I left the Catholic Church and rejected the whole notion of a God and religion. I then was taught by the missionaries. What they taught made so much sense. That is what you hear from most converts: what the LDS Church teaches makes sense. The LDS Church is more universal than the “universal” Catholic church because the Catholic, and all other religions, don’t have answers about a lot of things they should have answers for. They don’t have answers for what happens to children that are never baptized and there are, have been, and will be a lot of those. And then they don’t have answers such as when does a child become a non-child. In other words, what happens to the billions of God’s children, old and young, that never heard the Gospel? In other words, the Mormons are the only ones that have all (or most) of the answers. That’s why I am a Member. (BTW, for the atheist: science does not have all the answers either and there is not a scientist that says they ever will).

  • Karla

    hoffbegone-The term Godhead is in the Bible which is the Trinity and
    I know that the Trinity/Godhead can be confusing but Jesus was not
    created! Read Revelation 21. The virgin birth was a miracle not a
    creation. Emmanuel means God with us so Jesus is God as His part
    of the Trinity. God with us means God with us in the flesh yet He
    was subjected to the Cross to fulfill Bible prophecy! Trinity/Godhead
    is one God with the three different/parts personalities in one that all
    manifest themselves as part of the Trinity/Godhead that are one yet
    have the three different functions. Jesus was not created…Period!

  • Andrew

    Why is claiming to have found the truth self delusion?

  • samuel Johnston

    Hi Andrew,
    Good question. What can we mean when we say we know? What can we know? The subject is called epistemology. We can start with Xenophanes (c. 570—c. 478 B.C.E.) “…and of course the clear and certain truth no man has seen nor will there be anyone who knows about the gods and what I say about all things.
    For even if, in the best case, one happened to speak just of what has been brought to pass, still he himself would not know. But opinion is allotted to all.” (frag. 34)
    Another translation says “even if a man were to speak the truth, he himself would not now it.”
    And another illustration:
    “But mortals suppose that gods are born,
    wear their own clothes and have a voice and body. (frag. 14)
    Ethiopians say that their gods are snub-nosed and black;
    Thracians that theirs are blue-eyed and red-haired. (frag. 16)
    But if horses or oxen or lions had hands
    or could draw with their hands and accomplish such works as men,
    horses would draw the figures of the gods as similar to horses, and the oxen as similar to oxen,
    and they would make the bodies
    of the sort which each of them had.” (frag. 15)
    So Andrew, you have only 2400 years of Epistemology to catch up on. It is fun, however,
    to deflate the pompous along the way.

  • rob

    Brian James is only human he as the text says has to justify people by what he see’s them do .

    big big difference what the bible says how God Justifies .. when it comes to God ,God justifies the ungodly.. Romans 4:5
    see also 1 Peter 3:18


  • rob


    a literal reading of the new testament says Mormons have to be perfect right now
    or go into eternal darkness for ever.Are you perfect ALWAYS IN THOUGHT WORD OR DEED with out any sin? ARE YOU REALLY AS PERFECT AS YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS PERFECT?

  • samuel Johnston

    Hi Sam,
    You wrote: “Correct me if I’m wrong. But we should not be judging what others do.”
    As much as I hate to agree with scripture, I agree with the sentiment in
    Revelation 3:15-16King James Version (KJV)
    “I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.”
    We should not require of others what we are not willing to do ourselves, nor be intolerant, nor needlessly unkind, but to refrain from judging ourselves and others against some worthwhile standards, is to slip through life without effort or empathy or concern. It is to be shallow and waste one’s irreplaceable life. That said, people must be free to choose- not driven like cattle. Easy to say-difficult to accomplish.

  • Karla

    John 1:1-3 says Jesus was there in the beginning. In the beginning was
    the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God then the
    Word became flesh/dwealt among us! Who is the Word? Jesus Christ is
    so Jesus is God as part of the Godhead/Trinity not created. God bless.

  • Larry

    Speaking of cartoon books about religion. For a little fun, here is a coloring book put out by the Satanic Temple


  • Danny S

    For those arguing doctrines based on biblical writings, I just don’t know. The Gospel of John was written nearly 100 years after Christ’s crucifixion. It is based on stories recounted by people who were not witnesses to the events they purport to tell. It was not named after John until around 100 years after it was written. It was not written by one of Jesus’ apostles. The book we have is not the original manuscript. It is not a copy of the original. It is not a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy-which is true of all of the books of the New Testament. I wouldn’t get too attached to specific words and phrases as authoritative. But really I don’t mean to focus just on John. Somebody referred to Colossians. That book is pretty much accepted to be a forgery and not one of Paul’s epistles as are several other books attributed to Paul (2 Thessalonians, Hebrews, 1&2 Timothy for instance). There is so much in the New Testament that is highly suspect that these debates of scripture have an aspect of unreality to me.

  • Karla

    Danny S.-The Bible can be trusted because of prophecy accuracy.
    There are many false things being taught/misinformation today to
    try to deceive people. Jesus is alive and well. Read the Case for
    Christ by Lee Strobel a former atheist. Jesus is real. God bless.

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