November 26, 2014

Is Benedict XVI the REAL pope? 4 factors fueling Vatican conspiracy theories

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benedict xvi

Pope Benedict XVI waves to the crowd during one of his weekly general audiences in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican in 2007. RNS photo by Gregory A. Shemitz

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When Benedict XVI stunned Catholics by announcing that he would resign, it immediately sparked concerns – which were dismissed just as quickly – that having an ex-pope around could undermine the legitimacy of his successor. Now those fears are emerging again as conservative Catholics continue to express doubts about the agenda of Pope Francis while Benedict remains a player in intrachurch debates.

  • Patrick

    The whole notion is absurd. For those on the left, they could also say that since the death of Paul VI, there has been no legitimate pope, since JPII and BXVII were not living in the Spirit of Vatican II; the See has finally been filled.

    People want things their way instead of letting God be in control.

  • Fran

    He’s an imperfect man, just as the apostles in the Bible were. The big difference between him and the apostles is that the apostles taught the truth about God and his son, Jesus, and about God’s kingdom or heavenly government, who composes it and what that government will soon accomplish for mankind.

    God’s kingdom will put an end to all wicked ones so only the meek ones will live forever on earth (Psalm 37:10,11; Matthew 5:5).

    It will rule with love, righteousness and justice (Isaiah 11:1-9).

    It will put an end to sin and imperfection, old age, sickness and disease, even death (Revelation 21.3-4).

    Yet this pope never shares such great truths with the masses, as the apostles in the Bible did, even when faced with persecution and imprisonment! (Acts 5:27-32).

    He appeals to worldly rulers for peace, when Jesus provided the model prayer for us, asking that God’s kingdom come and that his will be done in heaven as well as on earth, or God’s kingdom officially exercising its rule over mankind on earth (Matthew 6:9-13).

    He lacks greatly as a worshiper of God or as a follower of his son, Jesus.

  • “A ‘pope emeritus’ cannot exist,” said Manuel Jesus Arroba

    That is irresistibly rich.

    If a cracker can become Jesus, why can’t a pope become ’emeritus’?
    All you need to do is invent a fancy incantation and make it doctrine. Pope Benedict has already done so – it is what the church always has done for 2000 years.

    Whenever something is not possible, the Pope just claims that it is possible ANYWAY.

    It is insufferably silly.
    And even sillier with the silly hats.

    ___
    AM
    For Peace, Humanity and The Separation of Church and State

  • The true anxiety is that Francis will attempt to exploit Benedict as a prop and extort from him a public blessing for whatever schemes the Bergoglio / Kaspar crew are hatching. Benedict’s family needs to extract him from the Vatican and take him back to Bavaria.

  • Karen L

    They’re just shuffling the deck chairs on the sinking ship known as the Catholic church. It will either fade into history or be so changed as to be unrecognizable, as the religion changes yet again to try to catch up to human morals and norms.

  • as the religion changes yet again to try to catch up to human morals and norms.

    I’m always amused by people who fancy that morals and ethics are like technologies.

  • Dear Mr. Gibson,

    Uh, Pope Benedict XVI made his statements regarding the “simply absurd” about 9 months before Ivereigh’s book went on sale. My report

    https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/11/25/if-ivereigh-is-to-be-believed/

    on the consequences of his allegations, after that. So the chronological order is obscured in your article.

    It would be good to note also, that Ivereigh is the ex-secretary to Cardinal Cormac, and is not a conservative or traditionalist conspiracy theorist. He merely reported, ostensibly, what his sources among the clergy told him.

    Neither is my blog article a conspiracy theory. I just spell out the significance of what he alleges to be the narrative of events.

  • Frank

    I don’t think that is what Karen meant really.
    .

  • Sue

    Karen, I think your expectations are right on the mark. It has been interesting over my long lifetime to watch the major Christian sects change with the times, or rather always at least slightly behind the times, pretty much like you say. It’s clear that mankind creates religions, and then modifies them when they don’t suit.

  • Fran

    Karen L,

    Yes, the Catholic Church has already struck the symbolic iceberg; it’s only a matter of time before she sinks completely, and at the hands of God himself (Revelation 17:1-18), whom she “claims” to represent, along with the rest of false religion.

  • Sue

    So what. Like Karen said above, it doesn’t matter who shuffles which deck chairs, nor when. Down you go, Bugnolo.

  • Josh

    If that god is the one god, how can it not be in control? The notions of so many Christians generally are absurd. It’s quite sad.

  • Josh

    My “truth” is better than your “truth”…

  • Fran

    Josh,

    So are the notions absurd that the hellfire and trinity doctrines are true, since they have no basis in the Bible whatsoever! Yet, many “Christian” faiths promote and teach them.

    We have an abundance of “false Christianity” in the world today; but its existence is short-lived.

  • David Gibson

    Br. Alexis, I’ve read Ivereigh’s book and he doesn’t suggest that Francis’ election was invalid because of any procedural issue. That seems to be a leap others are making, or suggesting.

    Also, your post wasn’t the first to suggest procedural problems — others, for example, raised the issue of how many ballots (there was one extra because there were too many ballots at one point).

    Yours was just the latest among many suggesting validity or legitimacy questions.

    Happy Thanksgiving! David

  • Oh yes it is.

  • Fran

    Karla,

    We shall have to see, with our own eyes, who all the false religions are when they go down at the hands of God, whose name is Jehovah (Psalm 83:18), through the political systems that have been her paramour for centuries!! (Revelation 17:1-18). The world empire of false religion (Babylon the Great) is even referred to as a harlot!

    Revelation 18:24 brings out that in her was found the blood of prophets and holy ones and those who have been slaughtered on earth.

    False religion has been involved in politics and warfare for ages, when Jesus, his disciples, apostles and first-century Christians had not been involved at all, even if it meant their lives!

    True Christianity is involved in preaching the “good news of God’s kingdom” instead on a worldwide basis before the end comes of this wicked era (Matthew 24:14).

    No one in my faith gets involved in politics and/or war; some have even been arrested and are serving long sentences for refusing to kill their fellowman in war (conscientious objectors) by their respective governments (Korea and Russia) or for preaching the good news of God’s kingdom.

    I will continue to maintain my neutrality concerning politics and war; and instead promote, support and preach about God’s kingdom as the ONLY hope for mankind until the end!

    Who or what will you stand for?

  • Steve Lyles

    The resignation was not acknowledged in Heaven. The seat of Peter was never vacant.
    http://Www.thewarningsecondcoming.com

  • Frank

    Oh no it is not.

  • Pete Ackerman

    Funny how nothing ever gets acknowledged in heaven. Peter’s seat usually gets vacated shortly after the flushing sounds get underway, though.

    No thanks for the conspiracy spam site, Steve. Here’s a site named for you
    http://www.yousuck.com

  • Is anyone insisting that Francis produce a long form birth certificate? Just askin.

  • Actually John began changing the rules for political reasons around a half century after the death of Christ. Jesus was probably an observant Jew who kept kosher. John was in Turkey at the time and decided that the best way to recruit gentiles was to make it easier. First off, he eliminated the major ouch of an adult circumcision. Then he permitted Christians to eat what they like.

  • Fran

    Actually you do not know that with John. You have the scripture to read at your own will risk.

  • Fran

    Karla,

    In what ways has my faith waged warfare against Jesus?

    Again, as to the hellfire doctrine, after Adam and Eve sinned against Jehovah God, he had to pronounce judgment against them and told them they would die. But where would they go after death?

    Genesis 3-19 provides the answer:

    “… For dust you are, and to dust you will return.” So, were Adam and Eve subjected to fiery torment forever, by a loving and just God, their Creator, because of their disobedience?

    NO, they went into the ground or grave, never to live again. Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 says that both animals and human have the same outcome, that both came out of the dust and both will return to the dust.

    The psalmist shows how just and loving God is:

    “As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those who fear him. For he well knows how we are formed, knowing that we are dust.”
    (Psalms 103:14)

    Thus, in spite of our daily sins and shortcomings, he is still merciful towards us, if we are repentant. It also confirms that it would go against God’s perfect love and justice to forever torment his creation, whether wicked or not, who are dead.

    Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 says that the dead know nothing at all, and all go to the grave as well.

    Psalm 130:3, 4 says: “If errors were what you watch, oh Jah, O Jehovah, who could stand? For there is true forgiveness with you in order that you may be feared.” We can definitely see how loving, merciful and just God really is!

  • Theresa

    I think the Latin Rite of the church should consider breaking into branches like the Jewish faith: Orthodox, Conservative and Reform. The church allowed the Eastern Rite communities (uniate churches) to keep their own canonical discipline, bishops, churches and retain their own liturgy in order to prevent Eastern Catholics from joining the Orthodox Churches. Why not have an Orthodox and Reform branch in the Latin Rite church? The Holy See is trying hard to rehabilitate members of the Society of St. Pius X and has allowed traditionalist priests such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter to have their own seminaries and churches. I think it makes sense to create a large Traditionalist/Orthodox umbrella group within the Latin Rite. That way the progressive side of the church (myself included) could move foreword with much needed reforms such as women deacons, married priests and new liturgical translations.

  • Karla

    Fran should stop your false religion and learn the true religion and so do the correct reply way.

    Satan is guiding your fingers away from the True Christian path. Take heed for burning hellfire awaits you where you going.

  • The church allowed the Eastern Rite communities (uniate churches) to keep their own canonical discipline, bishops, churches and retain their own liturgy in order to prevent Eastern Catholics from joining the Orthodox Churches.

    No, the Church re-incorporated schismatic bodies. And there is not any distinction in doctrinal and moral teachings between the Latin-rite and the Eastern-rites.

  • The Holy See is trying hard to rehabilitate members of the Society of St. Pius X

    No, that is not something in which Francis takes an interest

    and has allowed traditionalist priests such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter to have their own seminaries and churches.

    There are masses of religious orders, sister, who have their own houses of formation. The particular mission of that one is the preservation of the traditional rite as manifested in the 1962 missal. A multiplicity of rites in the western Church is not a novelty. The Ambrosian, Mozarabic, and Dominican rites have never been suppressed. They are just not widely used.

  • Morals and ethics are technologies which emerge and help us to survive and thrive within a social and physical environment. Ancient peoples worshiped the sun and physical environment b/c they were so dependent on agricultural cycles. Christianity worships mass consensus and collective emotional experience, which can help maintain complex societies and foster economic growth. The morality of a nomadic people is different from the morality of an agrarian people which is different from a capitalist, urban people. We adopt beliefs which help us survive in a wider world which we have little control over.

  • Frank, cannot help it if you’re week on logic.

  • Fran

    Some of those rites are well used. We should not try to suppress human rites for all who want them in Christ’s name.

  • Barry the Baptist

    The exchange above testifies to the truth of a phrase I’ve heard bandied about, lately: “you can’t all be right, but you can all be wrong.”

  • Doc Anthony

    Here’s the true Catholic test: If any Pope becomes the world’s first Gay-Marriage-On-The-Installment-Plan Pope, THEN THAT’S THE WRONG POPE, BABY !!!

  • Kathy

    “the former pope has not only taken part in some public events but also made his views known in letters and other communications”

    He has only taken part in public events he was invited to by Pope Francis. What views has he made in letters and other communications? I did not see any source cited. He has stayed hidden in prayer and writing as he said he would. Although that is unfortunate to some of us, he certainly has done as he stated. Trying to use the media and internet to cause conflict in the Church is not only disgusting, it’s sinful. This is supposed to be a religious site, isn’t it?

  • Kathy

    Never mind what Christ wants, huh? There are plenty of protestant churches that accept what is against God’s Word. Have you checked one that will suit you? There are many of us that take the Word seriously and don’t want the Church splintered in further.

  • Kathy

    LOL

  • Karla

    Karen do not dare to take the word of Christ in your false ways. The day is coming and you shall pay.False Religion followers all shall face eternal hellfire who’s time has come.

  • Karla

    Such False Religions will pay in burning hellfire. The Pope speaks not from above but from below.

  • Ben in Oakland

    My faith is the One True Faith (TM). You’re a false prophet. You’re going to burn in hell for ever and ever.

    NOOOOOO! MINE is the One True Faith (super-duper TM). YOU’RE THE FALSE ONE!!!! You and call of your fellow travelers will burn in hell forever and ever.

    “Such False Religions will pay in burning hellfire. The Pope speaks not from above but from below.” Revenge fantasies abound. And who, WHO is God’s BFFF?

    And thus has christianity been for nearly the whole of its existence, write form the Book of Acts down to the present day. Meanwhile, those of us who ascribe to no faith other than “Be the best, kindest person you can!” look on with disbelief. We don’t need this kind of god in our lives.

    Those who actually cannot believe that a loving god can watch people burn in hell for eternity for HIS mistakes still go on defending the rest, pleading for sanity, or at least sanctity, of a sort.

    thank GOD! I’m an atheist.

  • Ben in Oakland

    And we know this….how? Did you receive the press release form heaven, or did you decide this had to be true all by yourself.

  • Karla

    There must be eternal hellfire to fuel heavens comfort in eternity. God is smarter than we are or a devil’s pope. Those of the False Religions will know for short who they are.

  • Karla

    and so the price is paid.

  • ben in oakland

    I can read that only with a profoundly bottomless amazement. And I’ve been listening to Christians for some 45 years say the most amazing things.

    I will have to put that in my top 100.

  • ben in oakland

    what a small, revengeful, irresponsible, immature god you must worship.

  • Karla

    You speak reply to yourself of your own false god.

  • Larry

    I am always amused by people who think are too thick to realize that “Biblical standards of morality” are things actually considered atrocious and repugnant to modern people. You want a modern example of them in action, just follow the news about Islamic State.

  • Larry

    LOL, best response so far!

  • Larry

    Karla, Fran, both of you represent the most unpleasant, brain-dead, useless, ridiculous examples of Christian sectarianism out there. I can think of no better people to illustrate why people should avoid Christianity in general than the fact that if creates opportunities to associate with the likes of either of you.

    Frankly if heaven is reserved for people like either of you two, it would be a horrifically unpleasant place to spend an eternity. I could think of no better endorsement for eternal damnation than to say it would be without the presence of such shrill boosters for the Lawd.

  • pedro

    Benedict XVI is the real pope, the only pope of the catholic church. Francis Bergoglio is a false pope of the false church.

  • MIKE.O

    ROMAN CATHOLIC AS IT IS NOW IS ONE BIG HOUSE OF HORROR,THE APOSTATE CHURCH THAT’LL SOON PLAY A PROMINENT ROLE IN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE ANTICHRIST THOSE AT THE TOP KNOW EXACTLY THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING I ONLY PITY THE BLIND AND GULLIBLE FOLLOWERS WHO’LL SHARE IN THE SAME FATE AS WELL.

  • Gomer

    All caps posting is a tool of Satan and a sign of mental illness. Repent of your evil ways or burn in final embrace with Fran in Karla’s eternal hellfire.

  • Art

    The truth is for anyone to see, only One has said it… Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me. Listen and worship the only true God and Creator!

  • alice B

    I just read this list of comments. Is this some article by “The Onion”? Anti-christ? Predicting eternal hellfire for each other? A cracker is pope? Can’t spell = stupid? Irresponsible, immature, brain dead, useless, house of horror, gullible….. Listen to yourselves! Let’s just quietly put our computers down and take a deep breath. And I’ll stop reading comments.

  • iyke

    people should be careful the way they refer to God; mind you, God is an ever present Spirit that is not limited by anything, rather all the forces of nature, at His command; unite themselves for His will to be done. God is to be loved, for He first loved us by pouring on us the gift of breathe. please, let us reverence His Holy Name; than the other-way-round

  • Fran

    Yes, Iyke, and his name is Jehovah, which many people don’t know about (Psalm 83:18; Dictionary).

  • Fran

    Art, the Father is the only true God, whose name is Jehovah (John 17:3; Psalm 83:18).

    Jesus is the mediator or go-between concerning imperfect mankind and perfect God (1 Timothy 2:5).

  • Fran

    There is no place of burning torment forever, Gomer; just the common grave where mankind has gone to since Adam and Eve died and went to the grave (Genesis. 3:19).

    Some man-made traditions and doctrines (such as hellfire) are so much more judgmental than the only true God is, who is very merciful, compassionate and just concerning his creation, humans, even after they die (they are sleeping in death; Ecclesiastes 9:5,10).

    I will always defend the only true God against such defamation of his personality (eternal torment) and loving purposes for mankind.

  • Fran

    If I ever die, I will be going to the grave (aka Sheol, Hades, Hell).

  • Karla

    Jesus will to be more than some small moderator. Stop your False Religion path to eternal hellfire.

  • Karla

    Fran our Jehovah is not the real Jesus of the real God. Do not take his name vainly.

  • Karla

    Fran stop your path of False Religion. You have seen clear in Bible of sure eternal hellfire that threatens you until you Repent of false religion ways. It is not for you to be Judge or false witness.

  • Karla

    your not our

  • Karla

    Ben Gary- Read the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel and Psalm 22:16-18 also
    Isaiah 53:3-7 which are very specific about Jesus Christ. Bible can be trusted
    cause of prophecy accuracy. Jesus among other gods by Ravi Zacharias is
    a good book to read as well. Jesus/God are very,very real! God bless.

  • PeterVN

    To add to what Ben says, here’s a great response to Ravi Zacharias’ silly claptrap:
    http://atheistexperience.blogspot.ca/2010/05/response-to-ravi-zacharias-six.html

    Here’s a great excerpt:
    —-
    The implication in this question is that if there is no transcendent, ultimate, externally imposed meaning that there can be no meaning. That’s a bit of an equivocation fallacy – conflating “meaning” and “transcendent meaning” and then spinning it into “atheistic meaninglessness”.

    I have no crisis of meaning. A secular worldview doesn’t result in meaninglessness. My life has whatever meaning I attribute to it, and this would be true whether a god existed or not. Value is the result of desire and while he’d like to dismiss our “selfish interests, pleasures, or tastes” as negatives, that’s not the case. Our selfish interests can result in benefit or harm, all with respect to the things we value. He dismisses the very foundations of meaning in order to claim there is no meaning… that doesn’t sound like the “honest conversation” I’m looking for.

    The broader, implied argument is that one should believe in a god because it’ll prevent you from feeling as though your life has no meaning. This is not an argument for the existence of a god; it’s an argument for belief which has no dependency on the object of that belief being true. It’s like arguing that one should believe that they’re holding a winning lottery ticket if it makes them happy.

    The problem, of course, is that our beliefs inform our actions and our actions have consequences for ourselves and others. The person who sincerely believes that they hold a winning lottery ticket may well take actions that prove devastating when they discover they actually don’t have a winning ticket.
    —-

  • Karla

    Ben Gary-Read Romans 1:18-32. Bible prophecy is not vague but specific
    and for you to say that this world formed out of nothing then became a
    whole universe of design is absurd and it takes more faith to believe in
    that the universe is by chance than to believe in God. Many people don’t
    want Jesus/God to be real because they don’t want to be told how to live.

  • Ben Gary

    Karla, present what you think is a specific prophecy from the bible. Specific. With modern dates and major events, and I mean specific. Not a chapter reference, but the words quoted here plus a statement of what you think the prophecy says and when it was to happen.

    For it to be a specific prophecy that I would accept, it would need to have recent, verifiable dates and well known events. Anything else should be rejected (and laughed at).

    I think your claims are BS, frankly, so good luck with that.

  • Karla

    Ben Gary-I gave specific prophecy that came true in Psalm 22:16-18
    and also Isaiah 53:3-7. There are also many things to come like the
    Rapture,the rebuilding of the Temple,rise of the antichrist and the
    false prophet,new world order/one world government/7 year peace
    treaty that will be broken by the antichrist and the false prophet after
    3 and 1/2 years go by…also Ezekiel 38/39 predicts the coming war
    of Gog and Magog. Revelation says there will be two witnesses that
    will preach also there will be 144,000 Jewish male virgins that are
    sealed to preach the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ during the
    great tribulation where no man can buy or sell without the mark of
    the beast. Those are coming in the future so be ready. God bless.

  • Karla

    Ben Gary-After the Rapture happens and the 7 year peace treaty is signed
    and then the antichrist rises to power along with the false prophet then the
    Ezekiel 38/39 prophecy of Gog/Magog happens along with other prophecy
    coming true the people will know they were wrong and the Bible was right!
    The prophecy I gave you in Psalm 22:16-18 and also Isaiah 53:3-7 both
    are very specific about Jesus/came true with 100% accuracy as will all of
    the prophecy that will happen in the future. Do some more research about
    the Bible prophecy coming true because the Bible is the Truth. God bless.

  • Fran

    Karla you should cease and resist spreading the false word of your False God.

  • Fran

    Karla,

    There is no hellfire, there has never been any hellfire, and there will never be any hellfire.

    Ecclesiastes 9:10: “Whatever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might, for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.” (King James version)

    My dad died 19 years ago from illness; he is still asleep in death in the grave, but he is always in my thoughts and heart.

  • Fran

    Karla, Jesus is our mediator now while we are still sinful and imperfect humans. Along with that, however, he is the King of God’s kingdom or heavenly government.

    Jesus has higher authority over humans and angels, but he is still subject to his Father, Almighty God, whose name is Jehovah (1 Corinthians 11:3; Psalm 83:18; 1 Corinthians 15:28).

  • Fran

    Karla,

    Jehovah is Jehovah God, Jesus is the son of Jehovah God, and the holy spirit is God’s active force, not a person.

    I will never take Jehovah God’s name vainly, since it is the most important name in the universe.

    I will still try to be Jesus’ ufollower as set forth in the Bible as well.

  • Fran

    Karla ,

    It is also not up to you or me to do the judging, since Jesus will have the authority to do so. He will be able to read people’s hearts and know what kind of persons they are.

    John 5:27: “And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the SON of God.”

    I never tell people where they should end up or will end up. That is not my job; but preaching the good news of God’s kingdom as the only hope for mankind (Matthew 24:14) is my job.

  • Ben Gary

    All your posts are hereby rejected, Karla. I asked you for predictions with SPECIFIC DATES. You presented none.

    Do try again. And then we’ll get into the hundreds of prophecies in the bible that are just plain WRONG! Do pay a visit to Tyre some time…

  • Ben Gary

    All your posts are hereby rejected, Karla.Note that I asked you for predictions with SPECIFIC DATES. You presented none.

    Do try again. And then we’ll get into the hundreds of prophecies in the bible that are just plain WRONG! Do pay a visit to Tyre some time…

  • lember

    just get lost!

  • lember

    Like compost all over.

  • lember

    Bergoglio is got plenty of bloody dirty tricks

  • Karla

    Ben Gary-I did some research on Tyre and verse 12 says they which refers
    to the nations so the prophecy was fulfilled/came true. Many people today
    want to twist things/change words/take out parts of Bible verses. God bless.

  • Ben Gary

    No, Tyre still exists. And read below instead of dodging what I’ve really asked you. You’ve been caught dodging, and you know what that means. Answer with the specific dates in the predictions or I will consider your (baseless) claims to have been withdrawn.

    Again, all your posts are hereby rejected, Karla.Note that I asked you for predictions with SPECIFIC DATES. You presented none.

    Do try again.

    And then we’ll get into the hundreds of prophecies in the bible that are just plain WRONG!

  • Ben Gary

    No, Tyre still exists. Stop hedging. And read below instead of dodging what I’ve really asked you. You’ve been caught dodging, and you know what that means.

    Answer with the specific dates in the predictions or I will consider your (baseless) claims to have been withdrawn.

    Again, all your posts are hereby rejected, Karla.Note that I asked you for predictions with SPECIFIC DATES. You presented none.

    Do try again. And then we’ll get into the hundreds of prophecies in the bible that are just plain WRONG!

  • Bev

    Thank you Alice for saving me from further reading. You are so right. It’s good to get off one’s computer every now and then in the service of the common good.

  • Pete C.

    Satan is still working in the highest levels of the Church (“by their fruits ye shall know them”), but the Holy Ghost assures us that the Church will remain triumphant. The devil must despise even the use of the Latin language since it is the language of God’s Holy Roman Catholic Church and can be viewed as a sacred language proclaiming the truth.

    I fully expect that within about one generation of time, the Tridentine Latin Mass, the true Mass. will be the main way to celebrate this Holy Sacrifice.

  • John Hobson

    Of course, no one on “the left” has actually said such a thing. We may not have liked JPII and BXVI, but not for one second did any of us pretend that either one was not the legitimate pope.

  • Joel

    Pope Francis was validly, but illicitly elected.

  • Anrico

    What a fantastic assessment!!!

  • Anrico

    This is totally false. This is the attitude of most Christians. No bible to say the Apostles changed any of the laws instituted by the Jews.

  • Alan

    Ok. Sufficient (at least psychological) reference to the public that Benedict is still a (ex) pope. Forgotten is there are also so many references that Francis is NOT behaving like a Pontiff..

    – Not wearing the vestments upon presentation after election
    – Not living in the papal palace, but regarding St. Peter as a Bischopric Palace, where he doesn’t want to live.
    – Not presenting the pallium himself to Archbishops
    – Being visited by the Queen of England not in black
    – Never referring to the title Pontiff but solely Bishop of Rome.
    I am sure many more can be thought of.

    Why is the question never asked that Benedict en JPII were Opus Dei popes, having created the majority of cardinals from that back ground. Already JPII talked about disbanding the Jesuits. Why would these Opus Dei cardinals elect as (proxy?) Pope a Jesuit? There is either two possibilities. Either because they were desperate or because it functions in some sort of plan to have the Jesuits take the blows when they come.

    It seems to me obvious that all this is done with the general public in mind. They just make too much effort to keep Benedict at the forefront of consciousness. There has been another Benedict take the Papal office three times in a row… If things get really tough and something happens to Francis and there is no opportunity (war?) to elect another one? Then there still will be something of a pope in the back ground.. For Gods sake. Even the papal secretary still serves both… And why should Pontiff and Succession of St. Peter be the same office? It isn’t. It took hundreds of years before the bishop of Rome became Pontifex Maximus… Which titles DID Benedict resign? All of them? or only Bishop of Rome?

    Can you imagine, Obama resigning, but keeping the presidential ring, keep living in the attic of the white house, keep using the Presidential vehicles and airplanes and keeping the Secretary of State as his personal secretary also and on special formal occasions is explicitly invited to attend preferably in the same matching suit as the new president. Everybody would think that’s daft.
    .

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