BREAKING: Supreme Court will decide fate of state bans on gay marriage

Print More
A man holds a gay pride flag in front of the Supreme Court on Wednesday (June 26, 2013) after the court decided to strike down the Defense of Marriage Act.  RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks

A man holds a gay pride flag in front of the Supreme Court on Wednesday (June 26, 2013) after the court decided to strike down the Defense of Marriage Act. RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks

Active RNS subscribers and members can view this content by logging-in here.

WASHINGTON (RNS) The high court will hear arguments in four cases in April, and its ruling is expected to clarify whether gay marriage becomes legal coast to coast.

  • Greg

    This is probably a good time to get this decided before Obama has an opportunity to put another leftist Justice in place, tilting the court more Socialist. May God have mercy on this country should these justices decide this thing against normalcy.

  • Larry

    Sorry Greg, but there are already 5 justices lined up against those discriminatory bans on marriage equality.

    The irony was, had the anti-gay crowd not done anything, marriage equality would not have spread so fast. Their malice, zeal and lack of trust in the American voter compelled them to enact laws which were judicially suspect. Striking down those gay marriage bans are what allowed the court system to rapidly make marriage equality legal in ways that the passage of legislature would never have done.

    Had they done nothing and simply waited for gay marriage bills to pass in the state legislatures they could have bought themselves 5-15 years more time before public opinion worked against them.

  • Jeff

    I urge you to use the term “passed” unconstitutional constitutional amendments. It is pretty clear the MOB has gotten this issue wrong and our best judicial scholars are having to point this out to the voters.

  • ben in oakland

    Heterosexuality isn’t normal, it’s just common. And exclusive heterosexuality is far less common than so many people seem to need to believe.

    No one has decided a thing against heterosexuality, let alone normalcy, unless you are one of those people who believe that only the strongest legal sanctions will prevent the whole world from going gay.

  • Greg

    Last time I checked the male & female organs are clearly designed for one another, and the complementarity of which enables the human race to continue on. That is how nature is established; that is the natural law. I would ask you if you’d drive a car put together with only screws, and no complementing nuts? That would be an oddity. What does the Bible say, woe to those who call evil good, and good evil? Indeed.

    And yes Larry, I would agree that the states which established laws forbidding gay marriage, were easy pickins for the Obama appointed Circuit Court Judges to flip, and that probably sped up the process. But Obama has led by example in terms of following only the laws you believe in, so we all need to do the same, including the states.

  • Larry

    “were easy pickins for the Obama appointed Circuit Court Judges to flip”
    Greg you are so uninformed its beyond ridiculous.

    Actually many of those judges were Bush II appointees or earlier. Especially the man who should be the next in line for SCOTUS when Scalia finally has his fatal coronary, Judge John E. Jones III.

    “But Obama has led by example in terms of following only the laws you believe in”

    You mean when he exercised his constitutionally and statutorily granted powers concerning immigration that you ignorantly believed he had no right to do.

    Yet conservative christians are the ones oppose compliance with things like anti-discrimination laws, election laws, 1st Amendment religious freedoms, and tax laws.

    Fact of the matter is, there is no rational and secular argument for gay marriage bans. There are a lot of nonsense arguments, question begging, bad analogies and warmed over prejudice, but nothing which can hold up to the scrutiny of a legal argument.

  • Pingback: BREAKING: Supreme Court will decide fate of state bans on gay marriage | Jews & Muslims()

  • Greg

    Judge Arenda Wright Allen, Virginia (appointed by Obama),
    Judge Robert J. Shelby, Utah (appointed by Obama),
    Judge Michael McShane, Oregon; this man is gay (appointed by Obama), and on the list goes. Marriage is a sacrament that was given by God to propagate the human race. Gay marriage is no marriage at all, but a pact between two people. It defiles marriage, and is beginning to chip away at our freedom of religion, granted by the constitution. Gay marriage & abortion, are two pillars that are slowly destroying our country, its government, and our rights.

  • Frank

    It’s not relevant what SCOTUS does. Homosexual behavior will always be sinful and marriage will always be man plus woman. No changing that.

  • Doc Anthony

    Sorry all you gay activists out there, but this pro-gay Supreme Court who openly disenfranchise tens of millions of voters from voting their own conscience (whether pro or con) regarding gay marriage…is NOT the end of the story. NOT the end of the war. NOT at all.

    If you think the war will end when Obama’s Supreme Court turns America into the United States of Sodom, you are wrong. The war isn’t ending at all. It’s only heating up, and making its way to your doorstep.

    At best, the misguided USSC can only overturn the constitutionally-justified, voter-approved laws that correctly define marriage as exclusively between a man and a woman. Nothing more.

    Bible-believing Christians, however, can deal with minds and hearts, and the courts cannot stop us. We can reach same-sex-attracted people and opposite-sex-attracted people alike, with the power and promises and possibilities of Christ and the Bible.

    “But I’m not a Christian,” you reply. That’s fine, you don’t have to be. Millions of Americans, even a few gays, already oppose gay marriage WITHOUT being Christians or even religious. Even if gay mess is legalized, that fact won’t change.

    Further, there are countless tens of thousands of ex-gay and ex-lesbian people now in America, in all walks of life and all colors and belief-systems. Their number and visibility is only increasing, all the way to New York City (see “mayor’s wife”). It’s all about minds and hearts, one person at a time.

    So don’t bother thinking that the Obama Supreme Court is going to settle ANYTHING on this issue. Don’t bother thinking that the Gay Marriage Cult has won the game. Nope. They ain’t won Jack Squat.

    By the way, the voters of my state just kicked some no-good, pro-gay-marriage political candidates to the curb last November, and the voters of YOUR state can still do the same as well. Fight on, baby!!

  • Larry

    “and on the list goes.”

    Not really. Obama did not have as many opportunities to appoint people to the bench as his 2 predecessors. But don’t let facts get in the way of wingutty excuses. Lets be brutally honest, there are no rational and secular arguments for gay marriage bans.

    The 2 decisions upholding the bans depended on citing law they knew to be obsolete, ignoring the 14th Amendment, and invoking special pleadings which were largely irrational nonsense (the “procreation argument” is especially brain dead yet overrused).

    Your freedom of religion does not entitle you to have any say in the affairs of others. That means nobody has to care what you think God says about marriage or the personal decisions women make about their bodies.

    The only people defiling marriage are the ones who are saying such stupid things as “Marriage is for procreation only”. I could not think of an expression more insulting and reductive to the entire institution.

  • Larry

    Doc, if majority rule was the sole consideration for civil liberties you would still be forced to go to “colored only” public facilities. ALL discriminatory laws were passed by a majority vote. Even ones that used to relegate people like you to second class citizenry for almost a century.

    There is no constitutionally justified, rational, secular argument which can be made to justify gay marriage bans.

    “Further, there are countless tens of thousands of ex-gay and ex-lesbian people now in America”

    Try less than 20. Virtually all of your “ex-gays” claimed to have lied about being changed and repudiated the quackery treatments and religious counseling involved with such things.

    I guess if someone wants to see what its like to be on the wrong side of history and of a civil liberties issue, all they have to do is read your posts.

  • Ben in oakland

    Just amazes me, doc. Again, a black man is making up stuff to justify his prejudices, completely unaware of the irony of it.

    I’ve asked you this before. Where are these thousands of exgays? If they actually existed, why aren’t we seeing a parade of them? The anti-ex-gay industry would be certain to promote it. Why do we see the same under-50-count of paid professional activists?

    you keep believing that you are going to win on this, that the millions of decent, kind, and compassionate people who can see this 180 proof hatred for what it is, are suddenly going to see your darkness in a brand new light.

    You have far less faith in human nature than I do.

  • Doc Anthony

    “Doc, if majority rule was the sole consideration for civil liberties you would still be forced to go to “colored only” public facilities.”

    Then you are clearly unaware that the majority of black Americans do not accept your false suggestion that gay marriage is a “civil liberty” or “civil right.” It’s time for you to catch up, dude.

    Even as 93 to 95 percent of black Americans favored Barack Obama in November of 2012, a majority of us — 51 percent — still OPPOSED gay marriage in that same month, according to a Washington Post — ABC poll.

    You see, WE know that my black skin and your white skin are genetic, but homosexual behavior is not genetic, nor “born that way.” WE know from science (and tens of thousands of human examples), that my black skin and your white skin are immutable, but the so-called “sexual orientation” IS mutable, is fluid, and is changable. Change is possible; choice is possible.

    So WE know that being gay is NOT similar to, nor analogous to, being black or white or etc. All people are created equal, but all lifestyles are NOT. Gay marriage is a huge societal evil, not a civil liberty.

    Did you know that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, wrote that homosexuality was “a problem…with a solution”? MLK was no gay-marriage supporter, not at all. He publicly advised a same-sex-attracted black youth:

    “I would suggest that you see a good psychiatrist who can assist you in bringing to the forefront of conscience all of those experiences and circumstances that led to the habit. You are already on the right road toward a solution, since you honestly recognize the problem and have a desire to solve it.” — Ebony Magazine, 1958.

    So now you see the real deal, Larry. (And Ben, I know you see it as well). It’s time to oppose a huge, damaging evil. It’s time to fight gay marriage.

  • Larry

    I don’t care if they accept it or not. People like yourself can accept the notion the moon is made of green cheese. It doesn’t make it true.

    The 14th Amendment’s equal protection and due process clauses were written specifically to keep local and state legislatures from using local majorities from running roughshod over the civil liberties of political minorities.

    Your sole argument is “might makes right”. That the rights of others can be ignored or attacked if the majority votes for it. Of course you would be the first person to repudiate such ideas when it comes to your rights. Then again nobody said being a bigot means being consistent or intellectually honest.

    I don’t care how you manage to maintain the delusion of supporting discrimination against others despite being the object of discrimination yourself. That is strictly your own self-imposed nonsense to help sleep at nights. To anyone else with a modicum of honesty and perspective, it drips of irony.

    It doesn’t matter if being gay is different from being black. What matters is what people do to specifically single others out for negative treatment and their discriminatory conduct. Whether you discriminate against someone for being black, Jewish, or Libyan, it is still conduct which runs afoul of equal protection arguments. It is still maliciously harming others for bigoted reasons.

    MLK died long before the notions of gay rights was even a coherent thing. He didn’t have the patience to deal with the issue when ones closer to his own interests were still ongoing. So invoking his name does nothing here.

    “Ebony Magazine 1958”
    So what you are saying is your way thinking is 57 years behind the curve here. We get that. 🙂

  • Doc Anthony

    “Why aren’t we seeing a parade of (ex-gays)?” Ben asks.

    Well Ben, I think you saw that recent RNS thread (I think it was one of Eliel Cruz’s), in which Alan Chambers himself responded. In fact, I’m sure you saw that thread.

    Which means you saw all the pointed criticism — and the intense ANGER and stuff from one or two sources — that was thrown in his direction.

    Now Alan’s the guy that did all that public apologizing to you gay activists, and even killed and destroyed the Exodus International ministry, just to make you folks happy. And ohhh baby, did you guys celebrate.

    But yet there’s still all that seething, intense anger and hatred just beneath the surface towards Alan, because the fact is that Alan is still living in freedom and power as an EX-GAY who is clearly satisfied in Jesus Christ and clearly satisfied with his FEMALE wife. Exodus may be gone, but Alan’s own example still remains. So you hate his guts.

    Well Ben, there’s tens of thousands MORE where Alan came from. Sorry to break it to you, but for many men and women over the years, Exodus actually worked. They didn’t all drop dead when Exodus folded, imagine that.

    But the ones I have met, they ain’t looking for TV time. Not looking for parades. Not looking to become spokesmen or targets. They’ve had enough ups and downs in life; they want to live their own lives in peace, they’re not in the mood to take on endless anger, angst, attacks and criticisms and suspicions from the homosexual army (and their straight allies).

    If Exodus had survived, THEY would have maybe gotten a big “We Are Here” public event, but that giant downfall nixed any chance of “big parades.”

    That’s the answer to your question, Ben.

  • Fred

    Dear Greg ,
    Imagine if God had put Heterosexuality among Animals. Would you think Humanity would have survived !?
    Absolutely not .. As our food source would have become extinct.
    Animals do not live this awful way of life , while we “mankind” have no problem with it. Moreover, we made it legal and lawful in some Churches by the name of the Creator.
    Some european communities are facing evanescence in the very near future , and one of the major reasons for that is Heterosexuality.
    The Univers Founder says in Verse 11:78 of Noble Quran:
    “And his people (Lut) came hastening to him, and before [this] they had been doing evil deeds. He said, “O my people, these are my daughters ( Female Citizens ); they are purer for your (Marriage). So fear Allah and do not disgrace me concerning my guests. Is there not among you a man of reason?”

    So my question to our brothers and sisters in humanity is what Lut has asked his people before : “Is there not among you a man of reason?” .

    I do really like your “screw and nuts” example . I hope people will think about it .
    and I also ask all mankind through you to revert to Noble Quran , The Univers Manual., to get to know the Truth.

    Thank you for your time.


  • Larry

    Of course there is anger, many people were harmed both physically and psychologically by ex-gay quacks and the religious bigots who supported them financially and politically.

    The tortured usually resent the torturers. Even when they repent their past deeds.

    “But the ones I have met, they ain’t looking for TV time. ”

    Yet. But they are looking for attention through conservative christian channels. If they weren’t looking to be spokespeople or targets you would not have associated with them in the first place.

  • The Great God Pan

    “…a majority of us — 51 percent — still OPPOSED gay marriage…”

    If the statistics regarding marriage and out-of-wedlock births among black Americans are any indication, the majority of you are opposed to straight marriage as well.

  • Ben in Oakland

    Whenever I need to see the serene face of homobigotry, I know I can always count on you to lie, to distort, to defame, and to denigrate. It still amazes me that such an obviously intelligent man can believe the crap he tells himself. And in service to what? The same mentality that was used to keep black people down for 100 years post-slavery.

    Nevertheless, I am happy to make one of my occasional responses to you. Because when– not if, but when you lose, which you ultimately will– I will rejoice in your weeping, your wailing, and your gnashing of teeth.

    black Americans opposed same sex marriage back in 2008 70-30. Now it’s 51-49. Do you perhaps see a trend here?

    I’m certain you will continue the war. It’s what the money hungry, the dominion demanding, and the power mad do, as long as they can. Unfortunately for you, fewer and fewer people are showing up.

    Obama’s supreme court: Let’s see: Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Breyer, Ginsburg– all not appointed by Obama. Don’t let the truth get in your way, not that it ever has.

    you have failed to reach most of the people you claim. But keep trying.

    your countless thousands of people who have changed simply don’t exist. The anti-ex-gay industry would be the ones to put them in a parade, they would pay for that parade and the airfares to get there, but they haven’t and they can’t. They don’t exist. You can keep claiming they do, and that they have been bullied, coerced, paid off, into not participating– whatever nonsense you tell yourself to explain your failures– but that will never make it true.

    you “know” that being gay isn’t immutable, citing Mayor de blasio’s wife. She’s bisexual, dude. All comments from her indicate that this is the case, and that she doesn’t hold your animus towards gay people.

    Some people do hate Alan chambers. I’m not one of them. Anger? Absolutely. If that anger were ever made manifest as a force in the world, that anger would blow the anti-gay industry into cosmic dust. But we’re better than that.

    Alan has said many times he’s just as gay as he ever was. He hasn’t changed. The seething anger is for the damage he did, the lies he told, the causes he supported. Neither jesus nor freud nor ex-gay Fraud has ever turned one person from gay to straight.

    Exodus survived for 40 years, making every possible claim of success until the weight of the evidence caused them to collapse, until they saw the damage they had done, the obvious lies, and the EVIL– I will use that word here and now– they had abetted in support of their agenda. You can spin it any way you want, but those are the facts.

    So, that’s enough from me for right now. The evil of anti-gay bigotry, which you so perfectly personify, is boring, wearying, nasty, dishonest, and, well, EVIL. God alone knows what your motivations are for it. You, certainly, will never tell us, but will continue to hide behind your bible, as the segregationists of another era hid behind theirs.

    I will rejoice in your weeping, your wailing, and your gnashing of teeth.

  • Greg

    Hi Fred,

    I assume you mean homosexuality. And indeed, it is one of the tools of destruction being utilized in our day to melt away the glue of society. The laws of the land were designed for the “common good,” not the enjoyment of individuals. Once the family as we know it is destroyed, society will find itself wondering where it all went wrong. Today, people are shacking up and having kids without being married, much of that is driven by our government’s rules for medicaid and other freebies. It gives men an excuse not to be responsible, leading to women having children with more than one man, and the children growing up without a proper childhood. The other monstrosity is gay marriage, it is not just that people live together, but that they are afforded many rights given to those who are “rightly” married, including adoption rights. Children growing up in those homes develop psychological problems, as they do not understand what a true family really is, becoming confused, and improperly developed. The other destructive force tearing down the family is abortion. How many children have been destroyed by such barbaric physicians? Many of the women who’ve received abortions are truly victims of these so called physicians who sold their souls to the devil for a few bucks, and these women become scarred by the experience. Ah! the leftists have reared their heads in such a way that they no longer hide their hideous agenda anymore. Man has become numb.

  • Neon Genesis

    Who are you kidding? In spite of the extremist conservatism of Scalia and Thomas, this has been the most gay friendly Supreme Court in the history of America and everyone is predicting that they’re going to rule in favor of gay marriage. I pity how your grandchildren will be ashamed of your bigotry.

  • Ben in oakland


    Yet another case of the pot calling the kettle a Negro.

  • Ben in oakland

    “It doesn’t matter if being gay is different from being black. What matters is what people do to specifically single others out for negative treatment and their discriminatory conduct. Whether you discriminate against someone for being black, Jewish, or Libyan, it is still conduct which runs afoul of equal protection arguments. It is still maliciously harming others for bigoted reasons.”

    And that sums up the problem exactly– the failure, or more accurately, the desire– to recognize the common threads of bigotry and oppression that both groups have enjoyed.

  • Ben in oakland

    Greg– so many sins of slander and reviling and bearing false witness. I don’t know how you can live with yourself. Oh, wait. You’re a conservative, bible believing Christian. No problem.

    Just ONE response. I don’t have the patience for more. hanging around iggerunce and bigotry wears me out.

    ” Children growing up in those homes develop psychological problems, as they do not understand what a true family really is, becoming confused, and improperly developed.” Funny how 99.9% of gay people come form heterosexual homes. Virtually every single scientific, social, medical, and psychological organization in the entire world disagrees with you. Regnerus was laughed out of court: “These are not the arguments of serious people.” Google gay and lesbian parenting and educate yourself.

    Your ignorance, and your willingness to accept it under the guise of your “faith”, does not speak well for you.

  • Monica Sylvester

    What is the purpose of your comments on this website? Clearly you are not a Christian, clearly you are part of the intolerant, pc crowd. If you are here to create trouble and anti-religion sentiment and show everyone that your liberal life beliefs are the only correct beliefs, you have accomplished your purpose.

  • Independent in NYC

    Dear Doc Anthony,

    Over 100 years ago these arguments were made to deprive African Americans of their rights and to keep them second class citizens.

    Can’t have kids:

    “State v. Jackson. Missouri (1883): “They cannot possibly have any progeny, and such a fact sufficiently justifies those laws which forbid the intermarriage of blacks and whites.”

    It’s “unnatural”:

    “The moral and physical development of both races … require that they should be kept distinct and separate … that connections and alliance so unnatural that God and nature seem to forbid them, should be prohibited by positive law, and subject to no evasion”. Source: Kinney v. Commonwealth, (Va. 1878).

    It will upset the social order & ruin families:

    “It is through the marriage relation that the homes of a people are created … These homes, in which the virtues are most cultivated and happiness most abounds, are the true officinæ gentium—the nurseries of States. Who can estimate the evil of introducing into their most intimate relations, elements so heterogeneous that they must naturally cause discord, shame, disruption of family circles and estrangement of kindred?” Source: Green v. State, 58 Ala. (1877)”

    Sound familiar? It’s exactly what you’re spewing. SCOTUS made interracial marriage legal in 1967. It was banned in 30 states and up over 70% of the American public were against it.

    Future generations now understand those “arguments” were very very wrong. Future generations will judge your views in the same light. Sad.

  • Atheism Smells Bad

    “. . . to resolve the national debate over same-sex marriage once and for all.”

    Like they did abortion?

    There’s no doubt they’ll hand over our families and children to the lowest form of human life ever experienced. Is there anyone that really thinks the nine justices will not further deliver this nation into the hands of reprobates and degenerates? They gave our well-being to pitiless corporations, so giving our future to the licentious and lascivious takes no thought at all.

    Unless Christians are stripped of their citizenship in the United States of America (a dream come true for progressives, liberals, atheists et al) all of the demonic powers unleashed by the secular little court in Washington DC will have as much influence over The Church as did the two famous LGBT activists Nero and Hadrian “back in the day.”

    Sin behavior is a choice. Even if you were born that way. When the USA rests in the ash heap of history, The Church we still be alive and well.

    Can you say Sodom and Gomerica?

  • Frank

    No,they won’t. Race and chosen behavior are two very different things. Only the ignorant and desperate would compare the two.

  • Larry

    ” Is there anyone that really thinks the nine justices will not further deliver this nation into the hands of reprobates and degenerates?”

    Heaven knows Scalia, Alito, Roberts and Thomas have been trying their hardest to deliver the nation in the hands of reprobates and degenerates. Largely successful in many instances.

    Legally the abortion issue is settled. But that didn’t stop people from subverting the law through nonsense de facto abortion bans under the guise of “public safety”.

    As it stands the anti-choice crowd doesn’t have a leg to stand on other than bellyaching and demonizing women. It has been a great way to get poor people to vote against their economic interest in exchange for promises that would never be kept.

    The anti-gay crowd is no different. There are no rational and secular arguments made for their POV. If not for the intellectual dishonesty of the conservative wing of SCOTUS, one would expect a 9-0 decision. The arguments for gay marriage bans are mind numbingly ridiculous.

    Even once the anti-gay crowd loses this case, they will try to introduce other forms of discriminatory laws against gays. Bigots are very sore losers. We are already seeing it with these phony “religious freedom” bills which have nothing to do with religious freedom.

    Sorry buddy, but American Conservative Christians are not a persecuted group. Just whiny. Poor little babies can’t get to tell others what to do. Oh the horror!

  • Greg

    Anti-Life Choice is settled in the eyes of the Supreme Court, but not before God Almighty. Gay Marriage will be the same, should five of those Fools choose to “legalize” it. There is no constitutional case for either making it legal, or not making it legal. The Framers probably just felt that “normal” people didn’t need to be told the obvious, that gay marriage would never even cross the minds of legislators, or for that matter, of people of good reason. In fact many States had sodomy laws on the books to address those situations. That said, I believe there is a constitutional right of religious freedom that is being violated at present as a result of these gay marriage laws, and that should be the basis for knocking it down. Catholic Adoption Centers have closed their doors because they were being told by the State that they had to violate their religious consciences and grant gay couples babies, in violation of the First Amendment. As well small businesses such as bakeries, and reception halls are being told by the States that they need to bake cakes, and grant permissions to homosexual couples. Now the Bill of Rights doesn’t say that freedom of religion is only for your private life, it simply says it, “prohibits the making of any law law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion.” That should be the basis for striking down these State laws. As the spillover effect has been wounding the consciences of people attempting to exercise freedom of religion (much like the Hobby Lobby case).

  • Larry

    “Anti-Life Choice is settled in the eyes of the Supreme Court, but not before God Almighty. Gay Marriage will be the same”

    I am glad you admit that much. That there is no rational, secular or legal reason to oppose such things. Your capitulation is duly noted.

    The great thing about religious freedom is that it means I never have to give a flying crap what you think God says on any given subject. It means your religious beliefs can never carry the weight of the law. “God says so” will NEVER be a valid reason for any given laws in our country.

    Catholic Adoption services thought that keeping children in foster families and group homes was more favorable than 2 loving parents capable of caring for them. As recent news has noted, their regard for children is non-existent. If small businesses would rather close doors than treat customers with a measure of civility, their closing is a favor to us all. Anyone so deranged by their bigotry that they can’t conduct business should seek some other profession.

    Religious freedom never gave you a right to make others conform to your religious beliefs. There is no religious freedom to discriminate against others. Your right to free exercise of religion always stopped when it causes harm to others or breaks laws of general application. You have no more of a right to discriminate in business based on religious beliefs than I do to sacrifice your family to Cthulhu.

    These proposed “religious freedom” bills are nothing more than an attempt to introduce legal segregation for the sake of whiny Christians. To create “separate but equal” businesses and restrict open trade in service of bigotry.

  • Ben in oakland

    You talk about religious freedom as if you actually knew something about it.

    sodomy laws? they used to have this wording, more or less: “the abominable and detestable crime against nature, not to be named among christians.” So freedom of religion was defined as criminalizing behavior that christians disapprove of.

    Public accommodation laws? we have laws at EVERY level of government which forbid discrimination on the basis of religious belief. You seem to think there must be an exception for so-called Christians, an exception about which you would be outraged if it were applied to you. But hey! We’re just fags, and really don’t matter.

    Catholic adoption centers voluntarily closed down, rather than comply with the idea that they should not discriminate against tax paying citizens and using state money to do it. In Boston, for example, there is a Mormon adoption agency which takes no state money, and is thus free to discriminate. Catholic Social Services in Illinois claimed they should be able to receive state money And be able to discriminate. they even sued the state, and we’re told they had NO LEGAL CASE.

    If you want to claim that you have the right to discriminate on the basis of your conservative Christian belief against the people you think are sinners, then either claim that right to discriminate against ALL people whom you disapprove of, or work to get the laws repealed. Trying to find the proper exceptions to those laws just underlines why we have them on the first place.

    But you won’t do either of those things, becuase picking on gays, not other religions and their complete denial of your faith, isn’t what this is about. And of course, losing those discrimination laws will actually impact you.

    This is where your hypocrisy is obvious.

  • Pingback: -SCOTUS to Rule on Same-Sex Marriage | ANSWERS For The Faith()

  • Josh M

    Larry –

    “There is no constitutionally justified, rational, secular argument which can be made to justify gay marriage bans.”

    Actually there is. You either just haven’t seen or heard it, or you have heard it and choose to just say “That’s wrong” without giving any reason for the claim.

  • Josh M

    Every time I hear this “argument” is always amazing me. If you’re comparison between interracial marriage and same-sex marriage is correct why is this never brought up as an argument for SSM in a court room setting by the lawyers and supporters of SSM?

    It because the Supreme Court decision actually affirmed in that case that marriage is defined as a legal union between a MAN and a WOMEN. Therefore, race plays no part in the institution of marriage. Gender clearly does; which is again why no SSM lawyer has ever argued their case from the 1967 SCOTUS decision.

  • Larry

    What amazes me is the irrationality, slippery excuses and total lack of irony people employ to avoid either obvious parallels or outright imitation.

    What people don’t get is that the causes for someone to discriminate are completely irrelevant. It is not the job of the law to figure out what is in a bigot’s head.

    The only relevant issues are: whether discrimination against a specific and identifiable group of people is common and the extent of harm that discrimination causes.

    It can’t be helped that the anti-gay crowd are using THE EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS used to support legalized racial discrimination.

    “why is this never brought up as an argument for SSM in a court room setting by the lawyers and supporters of SSM?”

    IT IS BROUGHT UP!! But it is not an argument per se. At best its dicta. A commentary on the opposition. In a court one has to make arguments which are relevant to the issue at hand.

    In these cases, the bans are so bereft of any kind of rational and secular purpose that there is no need to argue positively for marriage equality. One simply has to show why such bans are legally unacceptable.

    “It because the Supreme Court decision actually affirmed in that case that marriage is defined as a legal union between a MAN and a WOMEN.”

    No it didn’t. That was done through legislation.

    The case you are trying to refer said something far less concrete. That gay marriage is not something they were willing to consider. Of course it came from more than 30 years ago. Back then gay rights could be kept in check legally. Being gay could be considered criminal in some states, was grounds for losing child custody, and grounds for discrimination in business and housing. Typical reactionary wants to claim decades of change do not exist.

    If you were correct, there would not be over 30 states whose gay marriage bans were reversed as violating the 14th Amendment. Facts speak for themselves. You are nowhere near one.

    ” race plays no part in the institution of marriage. ”

    You missed the point. 50 years ago it did.

  • Larry

    Yet you have never given one, nor give one now in response. Your reaction speaks for itself.

    Claiming there are some is nowhere close to actually demonstrating it. It takes no effort to type out a sentence or two. At best you have religious nonsense and a ton of irrational gish gallop arguments.

  • Greg

    Ben, my statement on sodomy laws meant that those laws were in place at the time of the crafting of the 14th Amendment, and nothing was included in that amendment stating–in any way–that it meant to strike down the sodomy laws. So the 14 Amendment cannot be used as a basis for making Homosexual Marriage legal in states that have banned it. As far as Catholic Adoption centers opting out of the adoption business, they did so because they were being coerced by the State to violate their religion. And that would be in clear violation of the First Amendment’s “free exercise” of religion clause. Like it or not, there is a free exercise of religion statement in our constitution, but there is not a free exercise of sexuality clause. So that argument has no basis. And it has very little to do with accepting money from the state, but rather the supposed “equality” implied by the legalization of Homosexual Marriage. In other words, if I were a Catholic mother who was in a bad situation, and had to give up my baby, I’d be horrified at the thought of it going to two men, or two women. The whole adoption issue boils down to freedom of Religion, that is supposedly granted by our Constitution. And lastly, I am not picking on gays. Homosexual people are free to do as they choose, but Marriage is between a man and a woman for the propagation of the human race. Gay marriage doesn’t have the potential to do such a thing. And if you believe I am discriminating against homosexuals, I am sorry if it came out that way, but this country has been clear that the Natural Law is the basis for most of our laws, and nature is the basis for the Natural Law. In nature, there might be an oddity or two, but there is no widespread homosexual groupings of animals. Just because someone believes they love another person, doesn’t give them the right to marry that person. What if two twin sisters decided to get married? Would the State allow that? Or a brother and sister? Think about how out of whack this whole idea really is? Would the State allow a person to marry their household pet? And with tax deductions to boot? Hey, if you want to fall in love with someone, then fall in Love with Jesus. That is the best way to focus your love, as He will be Judging each and every one of us the moment we breathe our last, and let me tell you, there are not many options … and one of them is very very bad, in fact it is eternal horror.

  • Herb

    Having been raised on a dairy farm and having been sexually attacked by a Holstein cow at the tender age of 19 (to the glee of my uncle who broadcast the incident to the entire town) I can testify that “bestiality” and “homosexuality” is rampant among the animal kingdom.

  • Tina Rich

    Well…this is a rather nasty, hate-filled thread. I guess everyone will still be at each others throats when the water is sloshing around ankles and half the planet has become unliveable. I don’t think we really need to worry about popping out any more babies…we’re doing pretty well on that score at the detriment to every other species on the planet. There are much bigger issues out there gentlemen!!! How about we fix those…..

  • LetTheTruthBeKnown

    Gay marriage has Destroyed our country.