Obama condemns ‘distorted’ faith at National Prayer Breakfast

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U.S. President Barack Obama speaks at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington on Thursday (February 5, 2015). Photo courtesy of REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque *Editors: This photo may only be republished with RNS-PRAYER-BREAKFAST, originally transmitted on Feb. 5, 2015 or with RNS-EHRICH-COLUMN, originally published on Feb. 10, 2015.
*Editors: This photo may only be republished with RNS-PRAYER-BREAKFAST, originally transmitted on Feb. 5, 2015.

U.S. President Barack Obama speaks at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington on Thursday (February 5, 2015). Photo courtesy of REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque *Editors: This photo may only be republished with RNS-PRAYER-BREAKFAST, originally transmitted on Feb. 5, 2015 or with RNS-EHRICH-COLUMN, originally published on Feb. 10, 2015. *Editors: This photo may only be republished with RNS-PRAYER-BREAKFAST, originally transmitted on Feb. 5, 2015.

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WASHINGTON (RNS) “As people of faith we are summoned to push back against those who try to distort our religion -- any religion -- for their own nihilistic ends,” Obama said.

  • “We see faith driving us to do right,” said Obama.

    This is why religion is so terrible.

    Instead of doing the right thing based on our own innate humanitarianism – appreciation for decency is a trait most of us all share – the religious look instead to the demands of a manmade God according to a manmade Holy Book where ‘DOING RIGHT’ means killing people!

    We must abandon this Hellish engine called religion.
    Religion is a mirage which promotes the very thing it claims to eliminate!

    “Bring to me those enemies of mine…execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)
    “Slay the infidel wherever you find them” – Allah (Surah 9:2)
    “Kill the unbelievers in the daylight” – Yahweh (Deuteronomy)

    More Religion is not the cure for Religion.

    Mr. Obama, Please invoke Humanitarianism.
    Invoke Separation of Church and State.
    Invoke anti blasphemy laws!

    But for Goodness sake, don’t invoke Religion !!!

  • Read the Whole Story, Atheist

    Jesus didn’t ask anyone to murder. This was a parable told by Jesus about a king.

  • Jesus absolutely commanded murder. He’s God, remember? And he speaks for God, remember?
    Read your Bible.

    If Hitler’s son said, “Hey, I command you to follow the rules my dad made” what do you think that would imply?

    “The master shall cut him to pieces” – Jesus (Luke 12)

    JESUS describes what he intends to do to his own enemies.

    “..bring to me those enemies of mine who would not have me as their King, and execute them in front of me.” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    “Drown him with a millstone” (Matt 18:6)

    “And why do you break the command of God
    for the sake of your tradition? …. ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ ” (Matthew 15:3)

    “…judge them unworthy…REMOVE your blessing of peace.” – JESUS (Matt 10:13)

    “I have come to bring FIRE…What constraints! I am impatient to bring NOT PEACE BUT DIVISION.” – Jesus (Luke 12:49-51)

    “Hate your parents…hate your life” – Jesus (Luke 14:26)

    “Eat of my body” and “Be baptized and believe” or “Be condemned to Hell” – Jesus (John 6:53-54) (Mark 16:16).

    “I shall kill her children with Death” – Jesus (REV. 2:23)

    “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death…for ME.” – JESUS (Matthew 10:21)

    “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his daughter, and a daughter against her mother, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.” – JESUS (Matthew 10:35)

    “And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet AS A TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM.” – JESUS (Luke 9:3-5)

    JESUS ENDORSED the stoning laws – He rejected any change to the stoning laws of Moses.

    “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commands and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” – JESUS (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

    “not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law” – JESUS (Matthew 5:18-19)

    Inhabitants of conquered cities
    Victims of rape
    People who work on Sunday
    Uncircumcised men
    Men who have sex with women who are menstruating
    Ignorers of Priests
    Ignorers of Sacraments
    people who drink blood
    People who eat peace offerings
    People who let food go bad
    People who do magic tricks
    People who go to temple while filthy
    fortune tellers
    False prophets
    People who approach the Tabernacle
    Pretenders of witchcraft
    Pretenders of other religions
    Stubborn children
    Rebellious children
    Children who disagree with their parents
    Women who marry their daughters
    People who are irresponsible with their bulls
    People who pretend to worship idols
    People who actually worship idols
    Unruly children
    Slaves who run away
    Slaves who disobey
    Wives who disobey
    Men who steal
    Women who steal
    Children who steal
    Children who pretend to be witches

    There would be nobody left.

    Wretched, hate-filled, tribalistic Jesus
    has no business in our laws or our civilization. He’s as bad, and as untrue as all the other man-made gods.

    Religion should be abandoned before we blow up the world over this nonsense. Obama should know better than to go to a ‘prayer’ breakfast.

  • The president was never catechized as a youngster and spent 20 years sitting in the pews of Jeremiah Wright’s entrepreneurial uber-political Africanisant congregation. How would he know ‘undistorted’ faith from tiddlywinks?

  • Doc Anthony

    Jesus just wanna kill everybody these days, yes?

  • Shawnie5

    Tribalism is innate. There is no such thing as “innate humanitarianism.”

  • Karla

    Shawnie5- There is no such thing as annihilation either. Revelation 14:1
    says hell is forever just as heaven is forever. Hell is the holding place for
    the Lake of Fire where people go. Bible is clear we are created as eternal
    beings so where we go when we die is eternal cause our souls are created
    as eternal. Don’t you think if God could’ve destroyed satan He would have?
    The Bible is the Word of God/it does not change! In the beginning was the
    Word and the Word was with God and the Word/Jesus Christ was God then
    the Word/Jesus Christ became flesh and then dwealt among us. God bless.

  • Karla

    Correction above. It’s Revelation 14:11

  • RWANDA 1993-94
    The most Catholic Country in Africa – Slaughtered 800,000 people at the command of God.

    Father Anatole Serromba, Rwanda 1993: “Jesus demands death”
    He slaughtered 2000 by himself.

    “Army of Jesus” boasts about 7,000 Christian fighters and is the largest of the militias in eastern Congo. Killing for Jesus.

    Meanwhile, at any given moment in America:

    “Jesus and Mary told me to kill him because he is Satan’s spawn!”
    – Tammi Estep

    Happens all the time.
    Why do you think I’m afraid of people who say they have ‘a relationship’ with Jesus?

    If Jesus’ command to love was workable we would see it as such.
    Instead it leads to hell on earth. Every single time.

  • Shawnie:

    “There is no such thing as “innate humanitarianism.”

    Yes there is. Don’t be ridiculous.

    Why do you think people are naturally revolted by ISIS’ burning of a pilot? Humans wouldn’t be worth saving otherwise.

  • Apr 8-1994 Jun 20, In 2007
    Prosecution indictment at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) in Tanzania said that during this period:
    “… at the Holy Family parish, Father Wenceslas Munyeshyaka drew up a plan to rape Tutsi women,” and “designated several Tutsi civilians who were kidnapped and murdered.”
    (AFP, 6/21/07)

    These are the sorts of strategies all religions construct to eliminate the ‘devil’.
    Objectify the enemy as evil and then any evil is permissible.

    “If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed!” – (1 Corinthians 16:22)

    How many innocents must die for this?
    Religion must be abandoned. The world can’t afford this nonsense anymore.

  • Larry

    Religion turns tribalism into a fine art form. All one has to do is look at the first 4 commandments: monotheism, no idolatry, keep the sabbath, obey ones elders. There is nothing moral about them. It is simply enforcement of sectarian codes. Religion and tribe are frequently entangled.

    As for innate humanitarianism, it’s called empathy. It is what sane people feel towards others. Those who are not barely restrained sociopaths. We are hard wired for empathy out of the same reason we are innately tribal. We are social by nature. The golden rule/reciprocity is the most basic form of social interaction between people one is not related to.

  • Shawnie5

    There is no evidence to be observed anywhere in history that “empathy” toward those outside of one’s tribal group is hard-wired into humanity. Otherwise human rights would always have been considered inherent rather than acquired.

  • Shawnie5

    They weren’t revolted by it a few thousand years ago in pagan Europe, where it was quite in order to sacrifice both humans and animals by fire.

    Nor were they revolted by it even a few hundred years ago in pre-columbian America. The art of torturing a captive to death, by fire or otherwise, was one of the skills that moms taught their kids.

    I suppose you and Larry would have been the only two in those cultures to protest…not.

    So much for innate empathy. What else have you got?

  • Shawnie5

    You may be right, Karla. Although the context of Rev. 14 is the judgment being poured out upon the EARTH during the great tribulation, not hell. Smoke rising up forever and ever is a recurring biblical image of ultimate destruction.

    You could be right, though. Who knows? I certainly don’t.

    All the best.

  • Kid_Koala

    Max, You make it sound as if only religion’s can be the harbingers of atrocity. Many have been killed in the name of atheism, Stalin being one of the most prolific.
    The state was committed to the destruction of religion, and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic teachings, and generally promoted atheism as the truth that society should accept.The total number of Christian victims of Soviet state atheist policies, has been estimated to range between 12-20 million.

  • Karla

    Shawnie5-All the best to you as well. God bless.

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    Wow,Atheist Max…You still around, dude? Has’nt your head exploded yet? Poor baby.Your knowledge and understanding of Scripture is just. so.bad; have you thought about taking a good systematic theology course? I would recommend the works of Wayne Grudem or Dr.Norman Geisler. Better yet, William Lane Craig, because seriously, Max, what you actually know about the Christian faith would fill up the proverbial thimble!–PEACE IN CHRIST.

  • Shawnie,

    Your ignorance of science is the problem here – not my ignorance of history.

    Without extraordinary empathy human beings would never have survived over the last 200,000 years. That qualifies as innate humanity.
    We lived by the golden rule before and we shall continue to do so forever.

    Your examples of inhumanity are fearful examples of religion – shockingly tied to religious practices – all of which you endorse blindly.

    You are the queen who invokes the Lord of the Flies out of fear and mortal terror. You cannot live without religion because you cannot imagine the wisdom of a hippie. I won’t be parading down the beach behind your pig on a stick.

  • @Kid_Koala

    “Many have been killed in the name of atheism, Stalin being one of the most prolific.”

    Here we freakin’ go again!

    Stalin was a religious maniac. He is not an example of Atheism.

    This is an example of Atheistic government:

    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion..”
    – The US Constitution

    THAT is proper Atheism. Freedom of religion depends on an Atheistic Charter.

    Atheism only means “I don’t believe in God”.
    It is not a rule book on how to massacre people – (good grief!)

  • I recommend:
    “ANIMAL FARM” by George Orwell
    and “The Diary of Anne Frank”

    Read more books. Religion stinks.

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    Two things, Karla (and don’t make me sorry I replied to you!): (1), we were not created eternal; that phraseology is problematic because that which is eternal has ALWAYS existed; in that sense, only Almighty God is eternal. Humans have what it called derived immortality; that is to say, now that God has created us, we will not go out of existence.(2), The idea that Almighty God somehow cannot destroy Satan is erroneous; Satan hasn’t been destroyed yet, but he certainly will be. Better read Revelations a little more carefully, my sister. —PEACE IN CHRIST.

  • Shawnie5

    Assertions with nothing behind them serve no purpose. If generalized empathy were hard-wired into us, we would see quite a bit more of it in history. Instead we see almost none–up until a certain very specific point.

  • Shawnie5

    Here we go again…because nobody buys this smokescreen. Face it.

  • Karla

    Laurence Charles Ringo-Thank you for the feedback! You are right
    that God is the only one who was never created/is eternal from the
    beginning but when we are created we have eternal souls so I think
    you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Read Matthew 25:26.

  • Henry

    Love how the godless people are the first to comment on religious topics. LOL…A leopard doesn’t change its spots.

  • Karla

    Revelation 20:10 also says that the devil is not destroyed but will
    be tormented forever. Bible says it is better to lose your eye and
    your hand than to go to hell. Hell is real and eternal/Matthew 25:26.

  • Kid_Koala

    Max have you ever read a Russian history book? As a Bolshevik, Stalin followed Lenin’s beliefs where religion was concerned. Lenin believed that religion was addictive and if a communist society had to be built, then it was necessary to do away with religion. Hence, when Stalin took over the reins of USSR after the demise of Lenin, he promoted atheism and spread anti-religion propaganda. And those who believed in religion were targeted and persecuted. Hence, by the time the 1930s came along, people were too afraid to show their religious beliefs in public.

    Stalin kept targeting the Russian Orthodox Church. And, in the 1930s, the church nearly became extinct with hardly any parishes or followers. Churches were razed to ground and nuns, monks and priests were executed or sent to gulags.

    A few days prior to Stalin’s demise, certain religious organizations and sects were outlawed and its members targeted. However, it was not just the Russian Orthodox Church that was persecuted during Stalin’s reign. All religions were, and their places of worship were destroyed.

    Max, this is what the Russians say about their own history.

  • @kid koala,

    “Churches were razed to ground and nuns, monks and priests were executed or sent to gulags.”

    Stalin was enforcing a religious claim: “God does not exist”

    Atheists do not believe in a God but there is no reason to fear that Athesis are any more interest in ENFORCING this claim than a Christian would!

    Atheism is like being an advocate for healthy food – but letting people eat whatever they want.

    Stalinism is like ENFORCING HEALTHY FOOD under penalty of DEATH.

    Please drop it!
    Your problem is not with Atheism – it is with enforcement!

    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion…” – US CONSTITUTION

    This means there shall be no way to enforce ANY religious claim including the claim that ‘god does not exist’.

    That is all the protection you need. Support separation of church and state. And support Atheism while you are at it because Atheism is good for you.

  • Karla

    Matthew 25:46 is the verse. It says that hell is a very real place and that hell is eternal punishment. Matthew 25:46 says hell is eternal.

  • Shawnie:

    Atheism is the lack of belief in god.
    Stalinism is PROHIBITION of belief in god under pain of death.

    The US Constitution does not allow pain of death for any religious claims.
    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion…”

    After so many attempts, You should be embarrassed about your lack of understanding regarding the difference!
    Try to slander Atheism – but you can’t do it because your slander won’t stick.

    I didn’t see Paul Newman prohibiting anything – just because he was an Atheist. He raised $370 Million for poor sick children with ‘Newman’s Own.’

    If Atheism is so rotten, why is Paul Newman so awesome?

    Where is this god of yours by the way? Where is your evidence for it?

  • Henry,

    YOU are unaware apparently that
    The Good Samaritan was very likely an ATHEIST?

    You would be ENSLAVED, IN JAIL, SICK or DEAD without the power of Atheism to protect you.


    FIRST – Why are Atheists so good?

    Less than HALF of each Religious dollar goes to anything useful. Talk about waste!

    What do Atheists contribute?
    While Religion wastes billions of dollars building houses of superstition and holy books full of hatreds against other religions and loathing of humanity ….

    These ATHEIST organizations – NON BELIEVERS – are saving the world:

    Doctors Without Borders,
    The Foundation Beyond Belief
    Newman’s Own
    Goodwill Industries,
    Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation,
    Warren Buffet Foundation,
    Oxfam International,
    Rotary International,
    American Red Cross,
    SEED foundation, United Children’s Fund,
    Sierra Fund, National Campaign to prevent Teen Pregnancy,
    Treatment Action Campaign, Women’s Defense League
    US Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers,
    Plan USA, Tanzanian Children’s Fund
    National Academy of Science,
    The ACLU….etc.

    Atheists spend BILLIONS on saving lives EVERY YEAR!

    SECOND – We Atheists go further to promote education and culture to enhance quality of life.

    Atheists have done MORE for humanity than any other group:

    While religious people pray for cures – Atheists create medicine.
    While religious people pray for food – Atheists improve agriculture
    While religious people burn witches – Atheists promote reason.
    While religious people ban condoms – Atheists distribute millions saving countless lives from AIDS.
    While religious people burn books – Atheists develop the internet and social media
    While religion oppresses women and creates poverty – Atheists have emancipated women and lessened poverty.

    While religious people kill over imaginary Gods…
    Atheists create Church/State separation!

    ONLY THE THOROUGH SUMMARY REJECTION OF RELIGION such as that from Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin was the religious freedom you enjoy under the Constitution of the United States ever possible. It still remains the ONLY ATHEISTIC constitution in the world and IT PROTECTS YOUR FREEDOM TO WORSHIP.

    THE US Constitution is an Atheist Document!
    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion…”

    The Scientists working to understand climate change are almost entirely Atheist.

    While Christians and Muslims fill the prisons,
    the Atheist population in prison is statistically ZERO.

    What does Religion do?
    It feeds a few thousand poor people while spending billions of dollars apologizing for an invisible God who never shows up to save the 17 MILLION CHILDREN who will starve THIS YEAR ALONE !

    While ATHEISTIC Science
    does the heavy lifting of saving lives and making this world better….

    Monks, Priests and Imams live in the dark pits of caves and argue against science and work to PREVENT THE TRUTH FROM REACHING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE!


    Ted Williams
    Paul Newman (his charity, ‘Newman’s Own’ has raised $370 Million)
    Oskar Schindler (Shindler’s List)
    Henri Matisse
    The Beatles: John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr
    Warren Buffet – Billionaire philanthropist
    Jonas Salk (discoverer of the Polio vaccine)
    Congressman Barney Frank
    Max Von Sydow (played Jesus in Greatest Story Ever Told)
    Dr. Thomas Young (American Revolutionary War Hero and leader of the Boston Tea Party)
    James Randi
    Langston Hughs
    Steven Hawking
    Anton Chekhov
    Jules Feiffer
    Claude Monet
    Dick Cavett
    Alfred Nobel
    Richard Dreyfuss
    Mikhail Gorbachev
    David Niven
    Ted Turner
    Arthur Miller
    Berk Breathed
    Francis Crick
    James Watson
    Alan Alda
    Charlie Parker
    Oliver Sacks
    Camille Paglia
    Dave Barry
    Andy Rooney (60 Minutes)
    Tom Lehrer
    Bradley Manning
    Pat Tillman (Atheist in a foxhole)
    Thomas Edison
    Steven Wozniak
    James Lipton
    David Lynch
    Studs Terkel
    Guillermo del Toro
    Moshe Dyan
    MaMarcel Duchamp
    Clarence Darrow
    Andrew Carnegie
    Francis Crick
    Charles Schultz (creator of Peanuts, Charlie Brown Christmas)
    Jacques Yves Cousteau
    Harlan Ellison
    Bertrand Russell
    Gore Vidal
    Rob Reiner
    Mike Nochols
    Seth MacFalane
    Ani DiFranco
    Mickey Dolenz
    Ingmar Bergman
    Richard Leakey
    Kevin Bacon
    Richard Stauss
    Bill Blass
    Roger Ebert
    Albert Einstein
    Richard Feynman
    Barbara Forrest
    Linus Carl Pauling
    Maurice Sendak
    Helen Keller
    Noam Chomsky
    Mark Shasha
    Paul Kurtz
    David Hume
    Steven Weinberg
    Peter Higgs
    James D. Watson
    Ray Romano
    Scott Joplin
    Marlene Deitrich
    Butterfly McQueen
    Billy Joel
    Steven Pinker
    Sigmund Freud
    Bruce Lee
    Bill Nye
    Susan B. Anthony
    E.O. Wilson
    Alan Turing
    William Shatner
    Marlon Brando
    Noam Chomsky
    Katherine Hepburn
    Helen Mirren
    Andrew Carnegie
    Richard Branson
    Kurt Vonnegut
    Kai Nielson
    Gene Wilder
    Virginia Wolf
    Charlie Chaplin
    Richard Rodgers
    Arthur Schleshinger Jr.
    Frida Kahlo
    Ernest Hemingway
    Carl Sagan
    Robert Wright
    Michael Martin
    Peter Singer
    Jerry Coyne
    Jennifer Michael Hecht
    Golda Meir
    Betty Friedan
    Hannah Ahrendt
    Lisa Randall
    Julia Sweeney
    Paula Poundstone
    Diane Keaton
    Phyllis Diller
    Margot Kidder
    Susan Jacoby
    Sarah Bernhardt
    Cloris Leachmen
    Sarah Silverman
    Emma Thompson
    Lalla Ward
    Amy Alkon
    Victor Stenger
    Martin Amis
    Lauren Bacall
    Philip Roth
    Ian McEwan
    Michael Shermer
    Oscar Wilde
    Frank Zappa
    Mark Zuckerberg
    Jamie Hyneman
    George C Scott
    Andy Rooney
    Ayaan Hirsi Ali
    Daniel Radcliffe
    Penn and Teller
    Arthur Miller
    Barry Manilow
    Kevin Bacon
    Burt Lancaster
    George Orwell
    Steve Jobs
    Mark Twain
    George Carlin
    Rodney Dangerfield
    Adam Savage – Mythbusters
    George Bernard Shaw
    Simon de Beauvoir
    Isaac Asimov
    Thomas Paine
    Gene Roddenberry – creator of Star Trek
    Rod Serling – creator of The Twilight Zone
    John Stossel
    Brian Eno
    Leonard Susskind
    Stephen Jay Gould
    Dan Dennett
    Thomas Mann
    Noel Coward
    Philip Pullman
    Richard Leakey
    A.C. Grayling
    Lawrence Krauss
    Jodie Foster
    Stephen Fry
    Mick Jagger
    Margot Kidder
    Larry King
    Keira Knightley
    Brad Pitt
    Sam Harris
    David Jon Gilmour
    Robin Williams
    Stanley Kubrick
    Neil DeGrasse Tyson
    Richard Feynman
    Buckminster Fuller
    Gene Kelly
    Paul Robeson


    Abraham Lincoln – “The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion.”
    Thomas Paine
    Thomas Jefferson
    Vincent Van Gogh
    Theo Van Gogh

    Religion is so overrated it is disgusting.

    Atheism is wonderful.

  • Hi Shawnie,

    Have I told you how much I love being an Atheist?

    I love, love, love, love, love being an ATHEIST.
    I love everything about it. I love science, poetry, history, language, music, sex, food, sleeping late on Sunday.

    I love, love, love, love, love being without Hell. It is a wonderful joyous life.

    All of you Theists keep harping on which of the gods is the real one and I end up spending so much time swatting at your nonsense that i never get the chance to tell you how happy I am – how amazingly joyously happy I am to not have any religion.

    I have no worries about Hell.
    I have no worries about sex.
    I have no worries about sexual thoughts.
    I have no worries for my children’s sexuality.
    I have no worries about gay people.
    I have no worries about people who abandon other religions.
    I have no desire for the god of the heavens.

    I sometimes cannot contain my joy it is so awesome – no gods, no hell and no such thing as blasphemy! It is awesome, awesome awesome!

    I wish there were a word which explained how great it is to be an ATHEIST.

    I love life as an Atheist. It is so much better than the sad life I had before.

  • Shawnie:

    “We’d see more of it in history”

    Are you nuts? I’m talking about 200,000 years!
    We humans would never have made it this far if we did not reach out as a matter of course and help our kin!

    Good grief, woman! You cannot be this daft!

  • Greg

    In Christianity there is no recompense meted out here on this earth; it is a religion of peace. All punishments are given by God after a person has come to the end of his/her life, has been judged, and then sent to Hell. All mentions of vengeance in the New Testament are allusions of what will happen to a person for all eternity should that person not enter into the Plan of Salvation given to us by God, through his Son Jesus. The Crusades were merely the Christian defense to the Moors who were attacking them, saying “accept Islam or die.” Doesn’t this president even read history before speaking?

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    Wow, Atheist Max…does being an atheist correspond with being interminably long-winded? Here’s the sad secret about atheism: since it’s such a truncated worldview, doomed to exist no further than the atheist’s intellect and what he/she assumes is their physical existence, it has a very tiny life span.In short, atheists come and go, but Almighty God is FOREVER!!! And what makes you think Theists don’t love the things you love, Max? How many Theists do you actually KNOW, dude?

  • Greg


    I sense somewhere within the context of your personality a curious wonderment the Eternal One. What would you do if God enfolded you with His Love for a brief moment, and you experienced a firsthand sampling of the eternal ecstasy promised, just being totally engulfed in God’s permeating Love? I have a feeling if he did that to you (which He has done to others), that you’d turn back. I don’t know, but you seem to still have one foot sort of in the “maybe” category.

    As far as in this present life that we live, if I were presented with two rooms: one full of low life trash yelling at each other endlessly, suffering horrible pains, and being ripped to pieces by some beast who walked in every five minutes, with continual cries of agony echoing out, and blood everywhere, or a second room where the people are constantly riveted with excitement and enjoyment, never seeming to have any walls between them, living in a great state of life, with fine food, excellent drink, living in beautiful peace, all provided by a very rich and sharing person, and then asked which room I wanted to stay in forever (at no expense for either choice), well I can’t imagine anyone choosing the first room. But that is what many are doing in this life.

  • Shawnie5

    “We humans would never have made it this far if we did not reach out as a matter of course and help our kin!”

    Our KIN, of course. Which is exactly what I said. Tribalistic empathy is innate, as Jesus recognzed. To go beyond that, we needed Christian influence.

  • Shawnie5

    “I love everything about it. I love science, poetry, history, language, music, sex, food, sleeping late on Sunday.”

    LOL! Those things are not about “atheism.” I love all those things too, and I’m not atheist (our church doesn’t start till 11).

    Except I dispute that you love history — if you did, you’d know more about it.

  • Shawnie5

    Of course there is a difference. There is a difference between religion (the belief in a god) and Stalinism too. The point is that while religion led to western civilization as we know it today, atheism has never led to anything but the gulag.

    “If Atheism is so rotten, why is Paul Newman so awesome?”

    Paul Newman didn’t think he was awesome. He spent his life trying to make up for having left his three children behind to follow their babysitter off into the sunset, for which he himself said he would never be rid of the guilt. Although there is no reason why that should have bothered him, being an atheist — it’s quite in order in a totally material and Darwinistic world to leave behind the “hamburger” for the “steak,” to quote one of his famous quips. Why bother with annoying holdovers from Christian ethics like mutual marital fidelity and responsibility?

    “Where is this god of yours by the way? Where is your evidence for it?”

    Well for starters, the fact that you constantly trumpet a concept that grew directly out of the belief in Him.

  • Fourth Valley

    The Samaritans were highly unorthodox Jews that had their own different version of the Pentateuch.

    The Good Samaritan story appears in a PARABLE. He’s (even in the Christian context) a CHARACTER IN A STORY not an ACTUAL PERSON.

    Do you REALLY believe that a FICTIONAL PERSON in a story told by Jesus (who you believe was another FICTIONAL person) was an Atheist?? And would it even matter being the fiction of fiction?? 😛

    Really, Max. You need to think “does this make any logical sense?” before posting and not “does this sound provocative?”.

    You’re highly amusing though. Part of me hopes you’ll continue this nonsense. Though most of me is saddened by the shame you bring to atheists by association.

  • I have a problem with all organized religion. Even Atheism shows an ugly “organized” belief system.

  • 4th,

    “Though most of me is saddened by the shame you bring to atheists by association.”

    Why are you picking on me? I am making no claims.

    I thought you weren’t interested in converts? Why are you trying to convert me into your ‘let me be your doormat’ approach to religion?

    I think it is important to challenge religious claims. If the claims can’t survive being challenged perhaps they shouldn’t be made.
    Feel free to sit it out.

  • Shawnie,

    “evidence for god….Well for starters, the fact that you constantly trumpet a concept that grew directly out of the belief in Him.”

    I talk about Leprechauns a lot too. Are you ready to claim that as proof of leprechauns?

    Belief in God stops civilization. It never advances it.
    Blasphemy is the only way to advance civilization.

    “atheism has never led to anything but the gulag.”

    NO. Religion is what led to the gulag.
    And the fruit of Atheism is all around you.

    While religious people stick themselves in caves and pray to demons, Atheists invent stuff
    and make medicine and vaccines
    and solve problems and put landing crafts on the comets!

    Atheism is amazing.
    You can’t say that about your invisible fairy ghost friend.

  • “Almighty God is FOREVER!!!”

    Of course he is. Because you say so.
    He just can’t bring himself to actually exist.

    Leprechauns are forever, too. You know that. Right?

  • Shawnie,

    “Those things are not about “atheism.”

    Oh, You poor dear.

    Of course they are not “about atheism.”
    But unless you are an Atheist you are restricted by your god regarding all of those things.

    If you are a Muslim
    you cannot drink the Shiraz Wine which comes from Iran!
    You are forbidden from playing Chess!
    You cannot dance.
    You cannot listen to or make music.

    The restrictions within many sects of Christianity are just as insane and dictatorial.

    You defend the indefensible. Religion is an assault on humanity.

  • Shawnie:

    “we needed Christian influence.”

    A roomful of Atheists is full of ex-Christians, ex-muslims, ex-catholics, ex-hindus.

    We are all one people, one race, one species and we emerged from Africa thousands of years ago.

    Your God didn’t appear on the scene until this yesterday if you look at the long timeline of history – and your god is just a gnat.

    In fact, a gnat is much bigger and more important than your god – if we look strictly at the evidence. At least a gnat actually exists.

  • Karla

    Atheist Max-You say you want evidence. Creation is evidence.
    Read Romans 1:18-32. God gave all of us our conscience to
    know what is right and what is wrong so that man has no excuse
    on the day of judgment. Conscience/con-science which means
    with knowledge. God gave us our conscience to know what is
    right and what is wrong plus we have Bible prophecy accuracy
    like in Psalm 22:16-18 and also Isaiah 53:3-7 are about Jesus.
    Many people deny God because they don’t want to told how to
    live so they deny the Truth/God/Jesus cause they love their sin.

    For you to say that this whole universe just came from nothing
    where the sun is set where we don’t burn or freeze is bein blind.
    Look at the design of the whole universe. That is not a random
    accident/chance event. Creation is evidence and God is real!

  • Kid_Koala


    You choose to deny historical facts because they undermine your narrative.
    Stalin did evil things. While he might not be an atheist like your are today. To quote you … “Atheism only means “I don’t believe in God”. Stalin declared himself to be an atheist. So it IS possible for an Atheist to do evil.

    Next let us test some of your narritive.

    The Good Samaritan was very likely an ATHEIST?
    You are quoting a story from a religious text in which a Jew is speaking in a didactic fashion. Samaritanism, is a religion based on the Torah, a Jewish sect, not a atheistic one.

    These ATHEIST organizations – NON BELIEVERS – are saving the world.
    You have not done any homework; you are merely utilizing BIG names to further your declaration without reference.

    Doctors Without Borders-A) Atheists/ Buddhist/Christian/ Hindu/ Islamic and Jewish doctors and medical professionals are part of this organization. Therefor all sects are saving the world(not just non-believers.)

    Goodwill Industries- Goodwill was founded in 1902 in Boston by Rev. Edgar J. Helms, a Methodist minister and early social innovator.

    Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation- Quote from Bill Gates: There’s a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very, very positive impact.

    Warren Buffet Foundation (Warren Buffet declared devout Agnostic not devout atheist)

    Oxfam International-While not specifically a religious group, it was founded by believers. The original Oxford Committee for Famine Relief was a group of concerned citizens including Doctor Henry Gillett (a prominent local Quaker), Canon Theodore Richard Milford, Professor Gilbert Murray and his wife Lady Mary, Cecil Jackson-Cole and Sir Alan Pim. The Committee met in the Old Library of University Church of St Mary the Virgin, Oxford, for the first time in 1942, and its aim was to relieve famine in Greece caused by Nazi Germany military occupation and Allied naval blockades.

    Rotary International,- It is an organization open to all persons regardless of race, color, creed, religion, gender, or political preference. Therefor all sects are saving the world again. (not just non-believers.)

    American Red Cross-Created by Clara Barton-Belief system: Universalist-A Christianity sub-sect. AGAIN It is a organization open to all persons regardless of race, color, creed, religion, gender, or political preference. Therefor all sects are saving the world (not just Atheists and non-believers.)

    SEED foundation- I have seen to evidence that its founders Eric Adler and are declared atheists.

    United Children’s Fund-Started as ChildFund was founded on October 6, 1938 as China’s Children Fund by Presbyterian minister Dr. J. Calvitt Clarke to aid Chinese children displaced by the Second Sino-Japanese War. As the mission expanded to other countries, the name was changed on February 6, 1951 to Christian Children’s Fund.In June 2002, Christian Children’s Fund and 11 other international child sponsorship organizations founded a worldwide network, ChildFund Alliance. On July 1, 2009, Christian Children’s Fund changed its name to ChildFund International The name change took into consideration donor confusion and followed reports that CCF was no longer functioning as a JUST a Christian organization. Started by Christians. Not atheists and non-believers. Again open to all beliefs.

    Sierra Fund,-Please tell me where they declare in their mission statement that only atheists and non-believers can join?

    National Campaign to prevent Teen Pregnancy-
    Treatment Action Campaign-
    Women’s Defense League-
    US Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers-
    Plan USA-
    Tanzanian Children’s Fund
    There are similar Associations of believers so atheists and non-beleivers are NOT the only ones making a difference in the world in each of these specific avenues.

    National Academy of Science-Only 93% atheists and agnostics, which means the rest of the academy DOES have some sort of belief system. A smaller percentage. But that means that NAS is not specifically an atheistic/non believer group.

    The ACLU-Fights for the rights of Believers, and has believers as part of many of its legal teams.
    (It is not exclusively a Atheist, non-believer group, nor is it anti-religion or anti-Christian)

  • Larry

    In Christianity there is no recompense meted out here on this earth
    Yet many Christians expect their beliefs and failure to abide by them to be punishable under civil laws in the here and now.

    Christianity and military conquest have gone hand in hand since inception as a religion. Imperialism and colonialism were justified in terms of Christianity. The Crusades occurred several centuries after the Moorish conquest was turned back at Tours. The Europeans were the aggressors. Maybe you should spend more time reading history and less time making apologia.

  • Larry

    Calling atheism a belief system is like calling bald a hair color or “off” a channel on your TV. Atheism is simply the lack of a belief system.

  • Koala,

    Wow, did you ever miss the point!

    I listed non-religious charities. NONE of them spends a penny on religion.

    Money spent on religion is a waste; bibles, chapels, sermons and priests don’t save human lives.

    Doctors and medicines do. Go back and do your homework.
    Religion ruins everything. Including charities.

  • Koala,

    AGNOSTIC = “I do not KNOW if there is a god”
    ATHEIST = “I do not BELIEVE there is a god”

    Every Agnostic is an Atheist.
    If one admits he does not ‘KNOW’ neither can he ‘BELIEVE’.

    Nobody believes something while simultaneously saying ‘they do not know if it is real’.

    I do not claim god to be impossible.
    Only that I cannot believe in the gods which have been claimed to exist.

  • “Creation is evidence.”

    If that is your evidence for Yahweh
    then it is also the evidence
    for Zeus, Allah, Aphrodite or Thor and Ganesha and Odin.

    If that is the best you have, it is an awful argument. Because last I checked, you don’t believe in those other Gods despite the fact that their existence is confirmed by your own argument!

    Either admit you have no evidence – which means my Atheism is completely valid
    Or admit you have not yet supplied me with adequate evidence – which means my Atheism is completely valid.

  • Karla

    Atheist Max-Read Romans 1:18-32. Creation is evidence but the Bible
    prophecy all coming true with 100% accuracy is why the Bible can be
    trusted. Read Psalm 22:16-18 and also Isaiah 53:3-7. God bless.

  • Kid_Koala

    Max, it was you that declared these organizations to be only atheist and only filled with nonbelievers. Your statements drive a focus that only atheists can do good in the world and that no religion or religious organization has ever done anything good in the world. I showed that the organizations you listed have a conglomeration of both believers and nonbelievers. Therefore both atheists and believers have the ability to do good in this world. That is my point.

  • Shawnie5

    “Your God didn’t appear on the scene until this yesterday if you look at the long timeline of history”

    Neither did the idea of inherent human rights. About the same time frame, coincidentally.

  • Shawnie5

    Max has been schooled on all of these things many times before, but continues to repeat his misrepresentations as if nothing ever happened.

    He’s evidently aiming for ignorant converts. What with the increasingly disgraceful state of education today he’s probably mining the right demographic– from a purely numerical standpoint.

  • Kid_Koala

    I am curious. If you could, answer a few questions.

    Besides any donations to charities. And any time when you were formerly a believer. Have you personally ever helped to aliveate the sufferings of your fellow human being?

    Do you believe that ONLY atheists can do good?

    Do you believe that ONLY religious people can do bad?

    Do you believe that religion has never done anything to make the world better place?

    Do you believe that atheists have never made the world worse?

    Why is it so important to you to expound on atheism specifically here on this site? Are you seeking conversions to your way of belief about the world?

  • Shawnie5

    “Belief in God stops civilization. It never advances it.”

    Belief in the God of Judeo-Christianity is the ONLY thing that ever brought us fundamental human rights, of which religious freedom and separation of church and state is only one outgrowth.

    If belief in God “stops civilization” then civilization would never have happened. Civilization has NEVER been without religion–except in a few unfortunate places that people could not get away from fast enough if afforded the opportunity.

  • Koala,

    “Besides any donations to charities. And any time when you were formerly a believer. Have you personally ever helped to aliveate the sufferings of your fellow human being?”

    How dare you?
    I reject your condescending implication that my medicine is inferior to your magic sorcery. You have no evidence for your god or any help coming from that god! Why not work on that problem before condescending to those who doubt your magic incantations?

    “Why is it so important to you to expound on atheism specifically here on this site?”

    RNS is where these outrageous religious claims about God are being made.
    I study religion as a doctor studies a disease. I am looking for safe ways to treat it.

    You complain about horrors in the world while you promote a genocidal God. And you don’t even catch the irony.

    GOD Commands Genocide:
    “I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy.” (JER 13:14)
    “Now go and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.” (1 Samuel 15:3)

    The wholesale slaughter of every living thing.
    Who are you to argue for morality while you defend this?
    What do you think you are defending?

  • Karla

    Atheist Max- Bible prophecy accuracy is why the Bible can be trusted and
    Romans 1:18-32 says people deny God/ the Truth cause they love their
    sin/don’t want to be told how to live. The Romans soliders lied and said His
    body was stolen. They said the body of Jesus was stolen/they denied the
    Truth after Jesus was raised from the dead because they didn’t want all the
    Bible prophecy to be true. Saul who wanted to stop Christianity converted to
    Christianity/became Paul because Jesus appeared to him after He was killed.
    Those are just a few examples plus Psalm 22:16-18/Isaiah 53:3-7 are both
    very specific about Jesus. The Bible prophecy accurary is why the Bible can
    be trusted. God/Jesus are very,very real. The Bible is the Truth. God bless.

  • “Neither did the idea of inherent human rights.”

    Human rights existed at the dawn of the stone age when some man decided to share his Mammoth Steaks with his tribe!

    It is a ridiculous notion to think that it took the particular invention of a particular God Yawheh – all the thousands of previous gods on which he each was based were somehow insufficient – to come up with the idea that sharing those Mammoth steaks thousands of years before was a good idea !!! As if it had ever been doubted!?

    Humans would have gone extinct 300,000 years ago if we had not established the protection of kin – the broadening of the meaning of ‘kin’ is exactly what we call ‘human rights’.
    The broadening of ‘kin’ toward human solidarity was only possible when we disposed of religion enough to widen the notion of tribe.

    Blasphemy against tribal leaders and their religions is exactly how human rights developed and became broader. But don’t kid yourself that the tribalism is gone – because religion is still working hard to divide humanity.

    It is impossible to have human rights if God is your master!
    Humanity cannot survive it.

  • “Why is it so important to you to expound on atheism?”

    I have a problem
    with Suicide bombers, ISIS, Al Queda, Genital Cutting,
    Pat Robertson, Pedophile Priests, Pilots burning up in cages,
    innocent people being beheaded, women’s rights being smashed,
    women’s bodies disrespected at the command of god, Creationism replacing science, and Evangelists who are spending millions to overthrow the US Government and force a Theocracy upon everyone else.

    All caused by religion.

    I figure if some people gave it any thought they might realize their imaginary friend isn’t really doing a damn bit of good.

  • “Belief in the God of Judeo-Christianity is the ONLY thing that ever brought us fundamental human rights…”

    Endless nonsense from you!

    Then why is ISIS – Allah God of Abraham – against human rights?
    Why is the Catholic Church bent against women’s rights?
    Why are Evangelical Christians like GEORGE BUSH, DONALD RUMSFELD, DICK CHENEY, PAT ROBERTSON, BILLY GRAHAM, RICHARD NIXON the most warmongering tribalists ever invented – shoving us into 3 TRILLION DOLLARS OF endless wars killing 300,000 people from the perch of the White House since 2000?


    All of these cultures built themselves on the Human Rights laws of

    Saudi Arabia


    Hitler’s Germany
    North Korea
    Stalinist Russia
    Communist China
    Hirohito’s Japan
    Pol Pot’s Cambodia
    Saudi Arabia

    Need I go on?
    Tell me all about the human rights in any religious country – you can’t.

    Only this Atheist Law ensures Human Rights:
    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion…”

    It is still the only ATHEIST HUMAN RIGHTS LAW in the world.
    No other country on earth ensures the Separation of Church and State – hence real human rights under the law.

  • Shawnie5

    “The broadening of ‘kin’ toward human solidarity was only possible when we disposed of religion enough to widen the notion of tribe.”

    The “broadening of kin” would never have happened but for religion. It dates from one very specific point in history.

    This is a good place to revisit Jefferson’s thoughts on this matter:

    “His [Jesus’] moral doctrines, relating to kindred & friends, were more pure & perfect than those of the most correct of the philosophers, and greatly more so than those of the Jews; and they went far beyond both in inculcating universal philanthropy, not only to kindred and friends, to neighbors and countrymen, but to all mankind, gathering all into one family, under the bonds of love, charity, peace, common wants and common aids. A development of this head will evince the peculiar superiority of the system of Jesus over all others.”

    Tribalism is innate. Humanitarianism is not. We actually have to overcome our “hard-wiring” in order to respect the fundamental human rights of the “other.”

    Nietzsche understood this quite well. For all his unattractiveness, he was at least educated and honest enough to openly repudiate the sniveling “Christian” obsession with the welfare of the poor, weak and unfit which sapped the vitality of the pagan world which was, naturally and properly, oriented toward power and greatness. This is where your atheism, combined with the facts of history, takes you. Why are you ashamed to own it?

  • Stephen Lewis

    Karla, Bible thumpers like you can’t answer atheists like Max with your blind faith dogmas that are completely irrationally held because of zero verifiable historical evidence behind the Gospel Stories. Only faith in men’s words holds you to God and Christ and that kind of faith is bogus because it requires you never looking seriously at why intelligent people cannot “believe” in man-made stories without any historical vetting. And please, don’t hand me the Josephus quote which is so patently Christianized propaganda as to be totally unreliable witness. All the information we have about early Christian documents that formed the New Testament were held in Church Father hands and then the Vatican for centuries and who knows how much editing went into the Gospels and letters in those early centuries. We know for sure editing was done as the whole Gospel of Thomas was left out and the Gospel of Mark has been found edited which came to light in Morton Smith’s The Secret Gospel.

    Now that the Bible has been debunked as historical documentation because the writers lied about their origins and have been caught out by Israeli archeology, the New Testament writers relying on Old Testament stories as being true make Pauline Christianity just another false religion, like Judaism before it, and Muhammadism after it, all three Abrahamic religions relying on Bible myths like the story of Abraham. If you want to match your Christian beliefs with real history you have to follow Jesus’ teaching to “know the truth that sets you free” of man-made religious mythologies taken as reality. I teach Celestial Torah Christianity which won’t suffer the End Times fate of Pauline Christianity and all Abrahamic religions based on believing in ancient religious fables. We can get back to God’s original Sign Language now to straighten things up Messiah worship wise.

  • Fourth Valley

    “Why are you picking on me? I am making no claims.”

    Pet peeve of mind. When someone makes a comment so STUPID or DISHONEST (I don’t pretend to know which it is in your case) I must bring up logic in the matter.

    You made the CLAIM that the Good Samaritan was an Atheist. The FICTIONAL Good Samaritan. Either you made this CLAIM out of ignorance or dishonesty, and that bothers me. This CLAIM of yours is blithering stupid. Defend or retract it please.

    “Why are you trying to convert me into your ‘let me be your doormat’ approach to religion?”

    I’m not. Your making a false claim, and asserting a REALLY stupid axiom. So I’m pointing out how stupid your CLAIM is. Really, how is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER an Atheist, and why would that even matter??

    You call out religious people when they do stupid things, and RIGHTLY SO. I, likewise, am fine with calling you out when you do stupid things.

    This definitely does take the cake on the most hilariously wrong thing you’ve ever said, though. You’re an amusing fellow.

  • Fourth Valley

    “I think it is important to challenge religious claims. If the claims can’t survive being challenged perhaps they shouldn’t be made”

    Indeed!! How true!! Though I’d extend that to ALL claims, religious or otherwise.

    A claim like “The Fictional Character of the Good Samaritan was an Atheist”. I challenge this. If you’re stupid claim CAN’T SURVIVE ME CHALLENGING IT, as YOU stated, you SHOULDN’T have made it in the first place!! :PPPPPP

  • Karla

    Stephen Lewis- The Bible is the Word of God/Truth. Bible that says if you have a sharp tongue your religion is worthless so you need take a look in the mirror and bridle your sharp tongue/let go our pride/try to contain your ego and all of your jealousy because you have no clue what you are talking about. Read the Bible.

  • Shawnie5

    “No other country on earth ensures the Separation of Church and State – hence real human rights under the law.”

    Brought to you by (as the founders put it) the natural law of Almighty God. Enjoy.

  • Karla,

    “prophecy accuracy is why the bible can be trusted”

    Then why not trust science?

  • @Koala,

    “Max, it was you that declared these organizations to be only atheist and only filled with nonbelievers.”

    No. I did not say that they were ‘only filled’ with nonbelievers.
    I said they are ATHEIST – meaning they are non-belief, non-religion, run by Non Godly charters.
    Wherever religion is completely irrelevant it is completely legitimate to call it A-Theist. Most hospitals are similarly A-Theist. And I don’t need to point out that many of the doctors happen to be ATHEISTS too.

    “Your statements drive a focus that only atheists can do good in the world and that no religion or religious organization has ever done anything good in the world.”

    No. I said religion poisons what it touches.
    Think of St. Jude Children’s Hospital. It was started by Danny Thomas and it has saved countless children’s lives and helped countless families. I give all the credit to Danny Thomas, his humanism and his effort to make it happen. A true humanitarian.
    But If Saint Jude was real there would be no need for a children’s hospital in his name!
    How many parents were given false hope by praying to that phantom? How cruel and inhuman.
    The Atheist Paul Newman started “Newman’s Own” and raised $370 Million for poor sick children. No false hopes, no ‘saintly’ names attached. Just humanitarian help pure and simple.
    Religion is not needed to do good and it diminishes whatever good it does with falseness and lies.

    “I showed that the organizations you listed have a conglomeration of both believers and nonbelievers. Therefore both atheists and believers have the ability to do good in this world. That is my point.”

    Of course Atheists and Theists can do good.
    Dr. Seuss’s books are some of the best moral tales around – yet he was an Atheist.
    There very clearly seems to be no God helping anyone so any good that people do is purely their own effort.
    Jonas Salk discovered the Polio Vaccine and rather than make money off it, he gave it away to millions of children worldwide and forfeited millions and millions of dollars – JONAS SALK was an Atheist. He didn’t believe in God.
    When people don’t believe in Gods they tend to value this life more.

  • Greg

    I understand your point, but the Church could only take so much, and felt it proper to take back from the Mohammedans the holy sites of Christianity. They went on multiple missions to take back the Holy Land, Antioch, & Constantinople. This however was a response to death and destruction levied by the Mohammedans. The Muslims were the aggressors. They went as far as Spain, and then hit a wall there. But the Church has always supported what she considered to be “just” wars. If the Church were to just lie down and surrender, then she would cease to exist. But it has through the ages worked out situation after situation by and large in a peaceful manner. You can be the most peaceful, tolerant person there is, but if someone hits you in the face six or seven times, then you have to fight back. And once that is over, you have to go back and reclaim what is yours. To conclude that the Church used Christianity to inflict violence is a stretch beyond limits. There might have been bad Christians who got carried away, but the mission of the Church can never be equated to the mission of Islam throughout the ages. And yes, societies have used the death penalty to put criminals to death who could not be kept out of the public due to the poor prisons there were centuries ago. But the state would do those things for the greater good of society.

  • Fourth,

    Samaritans were generally pagans as they are today.

    When Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan, what religion did he say the Samaritan was?

    Did he say Christian? No. Because it is Jesus telling the story. The Samaritan was not Christian.

    Did he say Jewish? No. And Jesus makes a point of saying the Jews walked right by the sick neighbor.

    Did he say Pagan? No. Because apparently religion is completely irrelevant to the story.

    The religion of the Samaritan was not the point of the story.
    As Jesus tells it, the Samaritan MAY AS WELL HAVE BEEN NON-RELIGIOUS … AS IN ATHEIST!

    If Jesus does not ascribe a religion to the good samaritan it must not matter. Jesus says “Do as the Samaritan”.

    Religion does not matter. Even according to Jesus.

  • “Brought to you by (as the founders put it) the natural law of Almighty God. Enjoy.”

    Oh really?

    Is that what the 10 Commandments say?
    Funny how you construct your own religion – then claim it was theirs!!!

    “Thou Shalt put no other Gods Before me”

    Doesn’t sound like the establishment clause to me, Shawnie.

  • Fourth,

    “Pet peeve of mind”

    Yeah. who cares? If you can’t answer a question you are wasting everyone’s time.

  • Shawnie5

    We DON’T put any other gods above the one who said “If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.”

    IOW, the God who allows us to choose even as we allow each other to choose.

  • Shawnie:

    “Jesus said, ‘For judgment I have come into this world..” – (John 9:39)

    Incoherent, inconclusive gobbledygook.

  • Shawnie5

    “He who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.” John 3:18-19.

    Jesus had no need to do any judging; people’s responses to Him, in and of themselves, accomplished that. His work was to bear witness to the truth, and to make a way for restoring “as many as received Him” to fellowship with God.

  • 2 Cor. 5:10 –“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”

    2 Tim. 4:1 – “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom.”

    Heb. 9:27 – “And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment…”

    Jesus is the judge.
    He came to judge the world.

    Except that it is BS.

  • shawnie5

    He came to the world to save it–no force required. And this is the work which His church is still commissioned to carry on. The event events you describe are for the end of the age.

  • “no force required.”

    That is a Joke, right?

    Jesus was a trouble-making, rabble rouser of hatred and misery and scorn.

    And for what? So everyone could go to heaven and live forever with the master of this evil argument?? For WHAT!?


    (1 Corinthians 5:11)

    “Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.” (1 Corinthians 15:33)

    “But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.” (1 Corinthians 5:11)

    “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting” (2 John 1:10)

    “Avoid Them” (Romans 16:17)

    “For whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.” (2 John 1:11)

    “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault.” (Matthew 18:15)

    “As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.” (Titus 3:9-11)

    “Let him who has done this be removed from among you.” (1 Corinthians 1:13)

    “have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.” (2 Thessalonian 3:14)

    “Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

    “If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed! Come, Lord!” (1 Corinthians 16:22)


    “deem them unworthy…remove your blessings of peace.” – JESUS (Matthew 10:13)

    “Don’t waste….on the people who are unholy. Don’t throw your pearls to pigs!” – JESUS (Matthew 7:6)

    “shake the dust off…FOR A TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM.” – JESUS (MARK 6:11)
    “I have come to bring FIRE…What constraints! I am impatient to bring NOT PEACE BUT DIVISION.” – Jesus (Luke 12:49-51)
    “Hate your parents…hate your life, or you are not worthy” – Jesus (Luke 14:26)
    “Eat of my body” and “Be baptized and believe” or “Be condemned to Hell” – Jesus (John 6:53-54) (Mark 16:16).
    “I shall kill her children with Death” – Jesus (REV. 2:23)
    “…if they are unworthy..REMOVE your blessing of peace.” – JESUS (Matt 10:13)
    “And why do you break the command of God
    for the sake of your tradition? …. ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ ” (Matthew 15:3)
    “..bring to me those enemies of mine who would not have me as their King, and execute them in front of me.” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    Jesus is a whirlwind of misery and horror – even former believers are astonished looking back at this crap what we thought was good is actually pure evil.

    For shame!

  • Greg

    Most secular as well as Church history has been recorded and kept in existence by the monastics of the Church because there was a thing called the Dark Ages, when most people couldn’t read or write. But there is also plenty of early writings that were kept by the Egyptians, Northern Africa, Greece, etc. Your sheer dismissal of history is unbelievable, especially when we have the same writings showing up literally thousands of miles apart. No, most logical historians accept the lion’s share of the life of Jesus, and Christian history as we know it. Of course there are disputable points, but those are easily resolved through fragment findings, and translated papyrus and parchment secondaries.

  • Billysees

    “He urged believers of all faiths to practice humility, support church-state separation and adhere to the golden rule as ways to keep religion in its proper context.”

    A good and intelligent comment by the president.

  • Billysees

    Max writes,

    “Instead of doing the right thing based on our own innate humanitarianism – appreciation for decency is a trait most of us all share….”

    It’s a good reminder to mention ‘innate humanitarianism’ and the ‘appreciation for decency’ when most all of us here recognize their value because we were lucky to experience those things and the benefits they provide.

    But what about the ‘lost souls’ in the world who never had the good parenting or social experiences and yes, even good church teachings to help direct our ways in life?

    Religiosity, namely ‘mature’ Christianity, never hurt a flea.

    Where would most of us be without good teachings.

    Christianity deserves some credit here.

  • Billysees,

    “Religiosity, namely ‘mature’ Christianity, never hurt a flea.”
    Vicarious Redemption hurts the believer terribly. And I think prayer, the belief that wishes can be granted if you only believe strongly enough, is terribly damaging to people who are in desperate need. So simple, routine Christianity routinely hurts people in those ways, yes.

    “Where would most of us be without good teachings.”
    Which teachings are good in christianity? Love thy neighbor – all by itself sounds good but in Christianity it is connected to “burn your daughter” to death also.
    It seems far wiser to simply teach your children “Be Kind”. No god is needed for that and it works better if you don’t connect a god to it.

    “Christianity deserves some credit here.”
    Good people, good parents and loving families behave lovingly. They conduct each other with respect if they are wise.
    If someone behaves well and says it is because of ‘Christianity’ who am I to disagree?
    Just as when a Muslim credits his own goodness to Islam.
    Or a Hindu to his Hinduism.

    When we reach for something because we think it will ‘improve well-being’ – we have already behaved morally! Even before we decided on Jesus.

    Think about that.

  • Jack

    Max, don’t you have a family to attend to?

    Or…maybe a job?

  • Jack

    Then why do you spend days and nights on these boards rather than enjoying life? For most of us, when we’re here a lot, it’s usually because we have a bad cold or flu, or a temporary injury or something like that.

    If you were truly happy, Max, you’d be spreading the happiness, rather than raging against religion and the Bible all of the time.

    It sounds to me that life gutted you like a fish and you’re still howling about it.

  • Jack

    Not really, Larry. Atheism is just a negative way of expressing a belief that the material world or nature is all there is. That is certainly a belief — it’s called naturalism.

  • Jack

    So according to Max, because some people hate in the name of Jesus, He shouldn’t have commanded all to love in His name?

    Max, you are incoherent.

  • Jack

    But your life here is not forever, Max. Nobody gets out of here alive.

    If you’re right, you’ll never know it, but if you’re wrong, you will.

    Flip that equation for theists who believe in an afterlife.

    You may despise that calculus — as any other atheist would — but it is what it is.

    Reality thus is tough on atheism…..which is what you’d expect if atheism is at odds with reality.

  • Jack

    Note that when Shawnie5’s refutations of Max became harder and harder for him to refute, he began darting this way and that, desperate for an escape, until he finally dove behind his massive billboards of gibberish which he hastily threw up for that very purpose.

    Note as well how he bristled at being bested by a woman — so much for all the secular-left prattle about women being equal.

  • Jack

    Max, you called every one of those charities “atheist,” so quit lying.

  • Jack

    Stephen, you’re not even close to being right in your response to Karla. You’re clinging to century-old hyper-skepticism of the Bible, based on crackpot methodologies that have been refuted by (ironically) modern biblical scholarship and biblical studies tools, not to mention a century’s worth of archeological findings.

    A single prayer by Karla uttered to God in faith is more efficacious than paragraphs of your Gnostic gobbledygook and “Celestial Torah Christianity” gibberish that a precocious Sunday school student can see through.

    To recommend the Gospel of Thomas, a spaced-out Gnostic attempt to respond to the earlier four gospels written many decades earlier, over those gospels is like choosing a mad man in a psychiatric ward over a wise man in a lecture hall.

  • Jack

    It would be more accurate to say that Max is haunted by God and can’t get away, so he tries to drive Him away with mountains of insults and other desperate ploys.

    Yet Max knows that nobody gets out of here alive and that each day is one day closer to dealing with his no-win position vis a vis the question of God.

    It’s like being on the Titanic and refusing all help.

  • Jack

    The rest of us have a problem with famous atheist leaders of the past century:




    Those three atheists alone were directly responsible for the deaths of over 100 million innocent human beings whose only crime was getting in the way of these horrible monsters.

    But the carnage continued with:

    The Kim family

    Ho Chi Minh



    Burma’s old communist militarists

    Pol Pot

    The old communist tyrants of central and eastern Europe

    The most grisly, mass murdering cast of characters in history — every one of them avowedly atheist

  • Jack

    Consider biblical prophecies:

    Isaiah the prophet calling out Cyrus of Persia by name…..two centuries before Cyrus was born…..

    Prophecies about Israel being exiled, then a return, and then a second exile, predicted to be a very long one, and then another return

    Prophecies foretold with pinpoint accuracy about the arrival of Christ — when, where, how…..to the year……centuries before.

    But according to Max, these were psychotic Jews who invented a psychotic and mythical god. He won’t say that, but it’s an unmistakable implication that follows from what he believes.

  • The one doing all the distorting is Obama himself. Islam through the Koran tells Muslims to do exactly what the so called “extremists” are doing. From the beginning this man has misrepresented himself, this country, our constitution, his positions, Christianity, Judaism ..etc..etc. Those who were defrauded into voting for him thought they were electing the first black Christian, not the first black Muslim to the office of president. The man is clearly an antichrist as the Bible predicted their would be many (1 John), culminating in the final antichrist who will really be the devil himself. If you are searching for the truth I suggest you look to Jesus who is The Way, the Truth, and the Life. Receive Him as Savior and Lord, turn away from evil and follow Him as He leads you by His Holy Spirit. Then you will be able to discern truth from lies, good from evil, honest men from deceivers. God Bless

  • thereverend

    Here’s what I thought was a worthwhile response from a Lutheran pastor.

  • Curiouscat

    Have you always been an atheist? I ask because I don’t know what it would be like to not believe. I wasn’t raised in church and knew nothing of it but wondered what the world was for. What’s your story?

  • Jon

    Bill Clinton vs. Barack Obama

    When comparing Bill Clinton with Barack Obama, remember that Clinton is what is is, and Obama is what Islam is and what ISIS is! (PS – For more facts, Google “The Background Obama Can’t Cover Up.”)

    / I recently ran into the preceding item on the web. Any reaction to it? /