Was Obama right about the Crusades and Islamic extremism? (ANALYSIS)

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(RNS1-JULY26) An undated illustration shows the taking of the Greek city of Edessa in 1097 
during the First Crusade. Accused Norwegian murderer Anders Behring Breivik considers himself a modern-day crusader. See RNS-CHRISTIAN-TERRORIST, transmitted July 26, 2011. Religion News Service photo, courtesy of The History Channel/Bettmann/Corbis.

(RNS1-JULY26) An undated illustration shows the taking of the Greek city of Edessa in 1097 during the First Crusade. Accused Norwegian murderer Anders Behring Breivik considers himself a modern-day crusader. See RNS-CHRISTIAN-TERRORIST, transmitted July 26, 2011. Religion News Service photo, courtesy of The History Channel/Bettmann/Corbis.

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NEW YORK (RNS) No one is suggesting that Christians are just like the Islamic State. But Obama did suggest that Christianity is like Islam; both faiths have the capacity to be exploited by extremists.

  • Larry

    Yes, ISIS Burned a Man Alive: White Americans Did the Same Thing to Black People by the Many Thousands


    “For almost a century, the United States practiced a unique cultural ritual that was as least as gruesome as the “Medieval” punishments meted out by ISIS against its foes.

    What is now known as “spectacular lynching” involved the ceremonial torture, murder–and yes, burning alive–of black Americans by whites. Like ISIS’s use of digital media to circulate images of the torturous death of Muadh al Kasasbeh by fire, the spectacular lynchings of the black body were shared via postcards and other media.

    In fact, the burned to death images of the black body were one of the most popular types of mass culture in 19th and 20th century America.”

  • Frank

    Obama embarrassing himself again with faulty information and idiotic comparisons. We will be far better off when he is gone.

  • samuel Johnston

    Hi Jay,
    Excellent presentation. Church history is even more discouraging than general history. “Good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but to get good people to do bad things, you need religion”

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    Religion is the cause of all extremism??? How about politics and politicians??? The Terror In France, the Gulags in the Soviet Union, the Great Starvation in Ukraine, The Killing Fields in Cambodia were all the work of politicians.

  • Janet Malcolm

    Samuel Johnston, Excellent comment. I attended Catholic school in the mid and late 1950’s, and while our Sisters of Charity were not the fire-breathing monsters some kids endured, history class always referred to the Crusades as “the Holy Wars.” If there’s another oxymoron more oxymoronic (made that up), I certainly haven’t encountered it. Even as a 7 or 8 year old, I questioned killing people for their faith, and in fairness to our relatively liberal Sisters of Charity I was answered (as opposed to smacked) that it was to prevent the infidels from killing all the good Christians. It was years later that I learned about Pius XII’s anti-Semitic, Nazi-loving record. As you can probably tell, I’m past being a recovering Catholic and have moved on to outright atheism. At time I envy people who have faith; I’ve long since given up trying.

  • Larry

    Religious believers were the pioneers of extremism.

    Religion being one of the first big ideas that people thought were worth killing over besides, “I want to take your stuff”.

    Politics came much later. One had to have governments beyond mere decree before one could have political systems. We had religion long before we had notions of governments more complicated than despotism.

    Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao they all used religion as a model for their extremism. Fervent irrational belief, deliberate tribalism, creating climates amenable to paranoia. All pioneered by religious extremism.

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  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    And as usual –when the Crusades are brought up amnesiac writers never explain how huge swaths of the Middle East became Moslem—by fire and sword and hundreds of years of oppression. Yet that likewise gets glossed over in this incompetent article as if the author believes that somehow Islam has a divine right to conquer and not be called out on it. Sadly ,many believe the crusaders were the invaders. because many writers just skip over the first 400 years or so of Islamic history. (Making the article false by omission).
    But the Crusades were a very belated war of liberation finally setting out to deliver brother and sister Middle Eastern Christians from the Islamic yoke.
    Unfortunately, the Crusaders were from parts of Europe that were still partially barbarian so at times they acted like barbarians.

  • Larry

    “And as usual –when the Crusades are brought up amnesiac writers never explain how huge swaths of the Middle East became Moslem—by fire and sword and hundreds of years of oppression.”

    Much like how Europe and those sections of the Middle East had been Christian. Imperial conquest.

    Avenging slights from 400 years ago are far from reasonable or well justified. As for a “war of liberation”, maybe you could explain how Christian Constantinople was “liberated” by Crusaders in 1204 and various other acts of wanton destruction and atrocity committed along the way. Maybe also you can tell me how various European and Middle Eastern Jewish populations were so liberated by Crusaders (in the first pogroms)

    My suggestion is that you read more of the subject beyond Catholic Church apologia.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    What a laugh—take a list of the world’s recent political despots (atheists to boot) and forget things like the Communist Manifesto and Hitler’s autobiography, etc. and then say all these despots were inspired by religion is looking at history through a circus fun mirror.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    And Larry I suggest you read some real history books that include relevant information

  • Glenn Barker

    And how did “large swaths of the Middle East” become Christian in the first place? Was there an election thousands of years ago in which the people living there were giving a choice? Or is this some sort of “Divine Right” that some religious leader determined?

  • Lynn C

    Jesus was definitely extremist. Yet you say, “Recognize the dangers of extremism — wherever they lie.”

  • Susan

    And on their way to fight the Muslims, they attacked Jews all over Europe during the Crusades, especially in Germany. During the Inquisition Jews who were forcibly converted to Christianity were burned at the stake for “backsliding.”

    In the early 1900s a group of Ukrainian Orthodox Seminary students murdered Jews in the city Kishniev on Easter Day to punish Jews for supposedly murdering Jesus. The persecution of Jews was part of Christian Europe for centuries and not just the Middle Ages.

  • Larry

    Reading the stated beliefs of despots is a pointless endeavor. All despotic governments from Theocrats to Communists only answer to one concept. “The leader commands, we obey”

    More telling is when one takes a look at how those despots organized their systems. Look at how people followed them. They used the model of religious extremism. Methods honed by religious figures over centuries to promote fanaticism. Creating enemies to hate, horrific arbitrary punishments to fear, giving opt outs to moral thinking by appealing greater powers. All part of religious fanaticism and a blueprint to autocratic power.

    Christians talk about a “Kingdom of God”. Absolute despotism of the divine sort. Religious leaders are expected to have unquestioned authority to their congregations. Adherents being “sheep” of the clergy “shepherds”. Talk of “holy war” as if killing and atrocity are justified because God says so.

    Its telling that the most democratic minded of religious sects are also generally both outliers and pacifist in nature.

  • Larry

    Your willful ignorance is duly noted.

  • Brian

    You… didn’t read this, did you?

  • Paul K. Sholar

    To the author: You struggle throughout this piece with what you’re trying to say, but you completely fall down by the time you discuss the Inquisition:

    “Contrary to Moore’s statement, the Inquisition was not “outside the moral parameters of Christianity itself and … met with overwhelming moral opposition from Christians.” Though Moore may distinguish between ‘Christianity’ and the Roman Catholic Church, for all intents and purposes the Roman Catholic Church WAS Christianity at the time, or at least claimed to be.”

    What do you mean by “Christianity itself”? The faith’s first three centuries, the Nicene Creed, the period after Christianity becomes the state religion of the Roman Empire?

    Regarding the “moral opposition” of Christians to the Inquisition, you seem to think that the moral (and theological) points of view of its victims (Anabaptists, Marians, Jews, etc.) have/had no standing in your discussion?

    As for identifying “Christianity” with the Roman Catholic Church, your comments are nonfactual. Are you not aware of the history of Orthodox Christianity, centered in Byzantium? Are you aware of the many branches (more than the count of all your fingers and toes) of historical Christianity that existed, and still exist today, east, northeast, and south of today’s Istanbul?

    I think that there is no excuse for the ignorance of the diversity of historical Christianity that you display here.

  • Matt Westbrook

    We’re all trying to name the same thing. Here’s how I describe it: extreme loyalty to anything–ideology, charismatic personas, religion–COMBINED WITH a recourse to violence to defend the honor or program of said ideology, persona or religion, leads to the great atrocities of history. Religion doesn’t need to be isolated as the root source–this is to misunderstand how the human mind works. What I am suggesting allows us to look across cultures and movements and understand the human drive to be right.

    I should also note that being an extremist in your views, i.e. to hold extreme loyalty–does not necessarily lead to atrocities. Think of the Amish, who respond to violence against them in ways that inspire people of all faiths. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14900930) Nor does holding a view that violence is sometimes necessary in human existence lead one to commit atrocities.

    It is, rather, the combining of this loyalty with a recourse to violence that does the trick.

  • traci

    Frank, I don’t understand how someone could read the article and then write what you just wrote. The point is: PEOPLE. HAVE. DONE. VIOLENCE. IN. THE. NAME. OF. CHRIST.

  • Frank

    I read it quite carefully. The author makes the same mistake Obama made. Kinda pitiful really.

  • Frank

    Of course they have just like everyone on this planet has done violence in the name of something. If that all he said he would be right however not sure what point that would make.

    The idiocy comes when you try and compare the current Islamic lunacy with Christianity. I guess if you are ignorant you might make that comparison but not if you are dealing in reality.

  • Frank


  • Paul K. Sholar

    I believe that you have misdefined ‘extremism’ by linking it with ‘loyalty’ (to a what or to a whom, or …?) Consider the notion of ‘monism’ as the philosophical starting point of the extremist.

  • Susan Russell

    Religion isn’t the problem. Power crazy people hijacking religion and using it as a weapon of mass destruction is the problem. And ISIS is to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity — a perversion of the religion of millions of faithful people turned into a scourge that should be an anathema to people of all faiths and people of no faith. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-susan-russell/an-amen-for-the-president_b_6626902.html

  • Jack

    Janet, there is one and only one reason a person should believe in Christianity — because they believe the story is true. A person should believe only if they are convinced that there was a man named Jesus who was who the Gospel writings claimed he was, that after he died, his tomb was empty, and that the explanation was that he literally did rise from the dead, since all alternative natural explanations for the empty tomb, put forth for the past 20 centuries, have been refuted after being closely examined.

    Even if all people, past and present, who call themselves Christians are utter hypocrites, we are still called to respond to the story if we honestly believe it’s true — and even to be the only Christian on earth who is not a hypocrite, if that indeed is the situation.

    I have seen more than my share of professing Christians as well as non-Christians who are indeed hypocrites, but what it comes down to for me is that I can’t get away from the evidence that the story is true.

    Put another way, I’m not going to let the existence of hypocrites cause me to walk away from my conviction that the Gospel writers are telling me the truth in their assertions about Christ — because one thing has zero to do with the other.

    I’m pretty good at detecting phonies and liars, and have saved other people from being taken in by such people as well. I know truth-tellers when I see or read them.

    The Gospel writers have never come across to me as anything other than truth-tellers. If I were a judge, and the Gospel writers came before me in court, I would conclude that they were giving accurate and truthful testimony. I would find the evidence for their veracity just too strong to decide otherwise.

  • Jack

    While the facts of this article are largely correct, context is everything, and when it comes to context, the writer badly missed the boat.

    He did so in at least two ways.

    First, while the Crusades were fought in part to wrest Jerusalem away from the Muslims, the broader historical context was an aggressive Islam which from the 7th century until long after the Reformation, nearly a thousand years later, sought to conquer Europe. From the Battle of Tours, all the way to the defeat of the Muslims at the gates of Vienna in the 17th century, European Christendom was fighting a long war, mostly of defense against literal Muslim armies.

    The Crusades were truly awful and in many ways barbaric, but to remove the Crusades from this broader context is to ignore a thousand years of complicated history in the battle for Europe.

    Second, besides ignoring this millennium’s worth of history, the writer fails to note that today, we’re not just fighting a war of armaments, but a war of ideas, against radical Islamism. As part of this war, al Qaeda, ISIS, and others constantly call us “crusaders”, and make that word a rallying cry to increase recruitment among Muslims. In such an environment, it is stupendously foolish for us to flagellate ourselves publicly, in front of the whole Muslim world, regarding the Crusades. None of us has a thing to do with the Crusades…..none of us has a thing to apologize about regarding them. We weren’t there…..and most of us, had we been there, would have been in big trouble because most of us would have rejected medieval Catholicism. And if we were around during the Inquisition, we’d all have been in even bigger trouble. Evangelicals like myself would’ve been as dead as a door nail. And we would all — theists and atheists alike — be frying together.

    Whether we like it or not, we are at war. And when you’re at war, you don’t give the enemy a thing to hang his hat on. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

  • Jack

    Glenn, that’s like asking how the Roman Empire as a whole became Christianized by the fourth or fifth century.

    There are two answers, both of which are true.

    First, from the time the Gospel was first preached by a tiny sect of Jews in first century Israel and then in Rome by mid-century, it spread like wildfire. On its own, from the ground up, without an ounce of help from any government, but on the contrary, despite multiple waves of severe, bloody persecution from governments, including the imperial government in Rome and governors across the Empire, it swept through.

    By the 4th century, either through genuine conversion or cynical political calculation, even the Roman emperor himself, Constantine, saw fit to declare himself a Christian.

    So, a big part of the story of how Christianity spread through Europe and North Africa was simply through conversion, without an ounce of help from governments.

    Unfortunately, Constantine began the terrible process of the state co-opting Christianity for its own benefit and then coercing its subjects to accept Christianity as a political means of unifying what became a crumbling empire. Subsequent leaders of the Church fell right in line and even aided in solidifying this terrible church/state combine.

    And the more that unity of church and state was solidified, the more corrupt the institutional church became. It did manage to preserve the basic creeds of the faith, but barely, and not without a mixture of error and foolishness.

    And unfortunately, in the many centuries after the church/state combine was completed, Christianity began to be spread by the sword — very unlike the first four truly remarkable centuries of its existence.

    Today, the situation is very much like those first few centuries. Christianity is spreading rapidly, mostly in the developing world, not by conquest, but by choice and by faith. That’s because the old church/state combine is largely dead.

  • Jack

    The persecution of Jews in the name of Christ began way before the Middle Ages, with the totally unbiblical doctrine that God had cast away the Jews and replaced them with the Church, which was deemed the new people of God.

    The acceptance of this doctrine was astonishing, because it flatly contradicted not just God’s promises in the Hebrew Bible to the Jewish people, but the unmistakable words of the New Testament. In the 11th chapter of Paul’s letter to the Roman church (ironically), Paul asked and answered the question in the very first version:

    “Has God rejected His people? May it never be!”

    For the rest of the chapter, Paul demolished replacement theology, taking its best arguments and destroying them point by point.

    Every person who ever called himself or herself a Christian and has hated the Jews and called them rejected will have Paul’s words, written at the dawn of Christianity, nearly 20 centuries ago, to contend with when they face their Maker one day.

    The words are as clear as a bell. There was no excuse, and there is no excuse, for doctrines that teach that God has cast off the Jews.

    Thankfully, the United States is not Old Europe. Christians here believe today what they believed centuries ago — that the Jews remain God’s people, and that anti-Semitism is a heinous crime against both God and humanity. Christians here as elsewhere are filled with frailty, as are other human beings. But the one thing American Christianity has largely gotten right through time is its view of the Jews. Many Christians have honored it in the breach, and America has been far from free of anti-Semitism, but still closer to being free of that curse than any other land.

  • samuel Johnston

    Hi Janet,
    Yes, he went to the airport and blessed the airplanes going to bomb Ethiopia.
    Your instincts do you credit. Cutting through all the b.s. I like Mark Twain:
    “Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.”
    I do not envy those who have faith. They simply admit that they lack the insight that, what one does, affects who one is.

  • samuel Johnston

    Sad, Sad. Raise you one sad. Who made you judge Frank?

  • samuel Johnston

    “there is one and only one reason a person should believe in Christianity — because they believe the story is true.”
    Fine, I do not believe the story is true. Now what? I go to hell because I do not credit some ancient, improbable story? If so, God must be a nut case!
    All he has to do to clear this whole mess up is appear on T.V. and explain.
    We are all waiting.

  • Gerard

    The absolute ignorance is stunning to read on the article and peppered within the comments. The Inquisition was and is a wonderful thing. The term “grace period” comes from it. It had a judicial protocol that has yet to be matched when it comes to fair treatment of the accused. Moses by the way was the first Inquisitor and he ordered capital punishment on far more people than Torquemada ever did. The “torture chambers” were an early Protestant propaganda tool. I recommend people look for the BBC video “The myth of the Spanish Inquisition” Edward Peters book “Inquisition” William Thomas Walsh “Characters of the Inquisition.” On the Crusades, I find it hypocritical of anyone defending today’s war on militant Islam and condemning The Crusaders for responding to the plea for help from the Christians of the East. Obama and Fox News should be applauding the efforts and the victories and sacrifices of the Church and the loyal men who laid down their lives at Lepanto and held the Islam threat at bay during the Siege of Malta. Jean Parisot de Valette and the Knights of St. John saved all of Europe from the overwhelming attack of the Ottomans. Obama, all the liberals and all of the conservatives owe their very existence to what Iman-ad-Din, the Moslem Chronicler called “..Wicked Hospitallers, each full of zeal and without weakness.” And I wonder how a Crusader who fought his enemy right up close would think about the courage of a strafing run or drone bomber or an atom bomb’s indiscriminate destruction, or a suicide bomber or human shields or IEDs. The Crusades were nothing compared to the barbarity of today and our age has nothing on the conviction, sacrifice and bravery of those men who fought not because they hated what was in front of them, but because they loved what was behind them.

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    Perhaps your faith was misplaced to begin with, Janet Malcolm.

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    I for one am extremely thankful for the demise of the adulterous marriage of church/state originally perpretrated by Constantine, and thank YOU Jack for pointing out that it actually happened as you stated; to let some of these posters tell it, roman catholicism has a practically pristine reputation!

  • Jack

    You’re acknowledging that there are two questions here:

    First, is the Gospel story true or false? (Did it happen or not?)

    Second, if it is true, what are the consequences for not believing it?

    There is no sense in exploring the second question without first dealing seriously with the first question.

    But here’s the problem with getting the first question correct:

    If you believe the story is true, that means you believe that we’re all sinners who need to own up to our Maker and admit it. But the core of being a sinner is not to own up to much of anything. That’s the dilemma.

    We don’t want to eat humble pie and the proof is that few of us as beings are even close to being good at admitting when we’re wrong. And so our natural bias as human beings is not to investigate the Gospel claims honestly and objectively. We have a vested interest in saying “no” and not even going there.

    And the more we have going for us in our lives — money, security, health — the more likely we are not to want to go there.

    That’s why it often takes calamitous events in people’s lives — where they are knocked flat on their backs by life’s circumstances — for them even to consider the Gospel claims. When people are stripped of all they have — or if people never have much to begin with — that’s when they start considering its claims.

    And that is why there aren’t many atheists in poor societies, and plenty of full-throated or functional atheists in wealthy societies.

  • samuel Johnston

    I am acknowledging nothing. You do not even understand ridicule.
    “I know truth-tellers when I see or read them.” What an arrogant statement!
    You are really into simple minded rhetorical games like true and false tests. Life is much more complex. How one makes judgments and the consequences of same cannot be reduced to mythological stories for children. The whole sin theory is nonsense. Good and evil are just judgments – generally made after the fact. Motives are important, but so are results.
    If you think religious people make better judgments and live better lives, fine,
    but I do not. And even if they did, that is them, and I am still responsible for my own life. Pretending to know the ultimate reality is the arrogance of a fool. Most likely we are all just the great grandchildren of apes, so a bit of modesty would be more appropriate.

  • Fran


    We will be sooooo far better off when God’s kingdom or heavenly government (Daniel 2:44) put an end to ALL human governments and rules with righteousness, justice and love; besides putting an end to all wicked ones on our planet (Isaiah 11:1-9).

    God’s government is the best choice for us presently imperfect humans in the entire universe!! (Revelation 21:1-4)

  • Fran


    False religion has certainly and presently is that way!! After the death of the last apostle, John, in the Bible, it was foretold that false prophets would appear and that apostasy would be rampant! That has certainly proved to be true, even down to our day!

    Fortunately, false religion won’t always be around, and truth about God, his marvelous personality, and his stupendous purposes for man will be known worldwide and endure (despite the efforts of false religion!!).

    Man will finally live the “real life” on earth that he was meant to live since our first parents sinned against God and put us all in the present mess we are in (growing old and dying)!! I’m 60 years young, and I’m already tired of this “getting old” stuff!!

    God and his heavenly government will soon put an end to “all that ails us” based on his love for mankind as well as love from his son, Jesus (Revelation 21:1-4)

  • Eric

    Frankie No-Facts, offering opinions on things he doesn’t understand yet again. I’m beginning to think that Frankie is a bot, actually. Almost hard to believe that a real person could be that much of an empty-headed mouthpiece.

  • Eric

    More thoughtfully, Russell Moore : “The evil actions that he mentioned were clearly outside the moral parameters of Christianity itself and were met with overwhelming moral opposition from Christians.”

    Thoughtfully? C’mon. Moore–I assume knowingly–uses the No True Scotsman fallacy, and the article’s author credits him with being thoughtful? How about disingenuous and self-serving instead?

  • Jack

    Oh I understand ridicule, Samuel, but that doesn’t change a thing, unless you’re just throwing words around that don’t mean anything to you, in which case, you’re not really saying anything.

    Simple man that I am, I assume, as most people do, that when people use words, the words contain meaning and aren’t just lying there like a dead school of fish.

    Simple man that I am, I believe words have meaning and are a medium for intellectual exchange — hence my attempt at rational dialogue.

  • Jack

    The answer is somewhere in between. I admittedly grew up in schools that I now see taught a fair bit of politically correct nonsense about the history of Muslims and Christians in Europe. But you’re on the opposite extreme. The Crusades had some rational purpose that did involve defense against Muslim armies, but somehow they ended up slaughtering defenseless Jewish civilians while getting their butts kicked by real armies of Muslims.

    Let’s face it….while a Muslim conquest of Europe would have been a catastrophe for western civilization, Europe was largely one big mental institution before the Reformation. There were monks and scholars who helped preserve what was good and holy and sacred, but pre-Reformation Catholicism was an ignominious failure in inculcating the Gospel and getting it into people’s hearts and minds. Maybe Europe was better than its ancient pagan past, but it was still a pretty pathetic place, and pagan civilizations to the East were actually more advanced in some ways.

  • david

    It’s sad how the fundamentalists here think they know more than people with advanced degrees in church history.

  • Matsushima

    Responding to the comment at the end of your post: The myth of the ‘peaceful Buddhist’ again; strangely it keeps cropping up.
    Buddhism is about mood creation and image projection. Despite the peaceful pose the very ground Japanese and Asians stand on is blood-soaked and cries out for justice for the enslaved Asian workers, starved, experimented on, and/or beaten to death with a sadism and brutality unmached by anyone in living memory; the Buddhist/Shinto unrepentant denial being the most callous atrocity of all, and shared by almost all.
    So much for the peaceful Buddhist myth. Military dictatorships thrive in pre-democratic Buddhist nations, e.g. Cambodia. Japan has been a military dictatorship for all its history, with the exception of the last 70 years, whence it has been bound, like an extremely violent criminal, under its American constitution. Being so bound is not the same as being pacifist, though the prapaganda turns it that way.
    The devil parades as an angel of light.

  • PH

    Right, but don’t forget the infamous Albigensian Crusade, by Christians agaiinst other Christians, deemed ‘heretics’, killiing thousands! And the invention of the Inquiition itself for the occasion, confided to the Dominicn Order by Pope Innocent IV in 1233! The most gruesome of all!

  • Susan

    The Russian programs which murdered around 100,000 Jews were committed by Orthodox Christians. There were attacks on Jews in all the Eastern European countries with Orthodox churches. No Orthodox church has undergone the equivalent of Vatical II when it come to its views on Jews and Judaism.

  • Raven

    I’m surprised this hasn’t been brought up:

    Christianity’s founder taught against violence and founded the religion by suffering torture without offering resistance. The earliest Christians followed the same model. whether or not you take church tradition as history, we can see that the early Christians believed all but one of the disciples were willingly tortured to death. That’s the start of Christianity.

    Islam, by comparison, does not teach followers to turn the other cheek. Both the Koran and its commentaries (Hadiths) offer quotes encouraging violent defense of Islam and its interests. And if (as some argue) the Koran is not clearly demanding violence, its founder started the religion by waging war.

  • Ashby

    Obama, leading from a podium by giving historical lessons based on academic exploration. Let’s keep one thing in mind, some things just can’t be learned in school.

    It’s unfortunate our POTUS is playing a historical blame game. His words unfortunately will be used for propaganda not peace.

    Yet another shining example of a President who is under qualified.

    For all those academic elites whom exceedingly are taking the high road of (self justifying) logic and reason to shield themselves from an ever bumbling “Harvard Professor”….. You guys are right, we are all just not as academically sharp as the Prez.

    Unfortunately, the Prez never had or will have to validated his academic success man to man, no rules, just War.

    Enjoy your utopia of misled enlightened reason and academic logic.


  • Let’s get a few things straight:

    The Crusades were not fought by Christians. A real Christian never takes up arms to fight in wars – a Christian uses the Sword of Truth – His Word, not a sword of blood.

    Re Obama: Of course Obama is anti-Christian, he’s half Jewish and from a Jewish perspective, with his mother being the Jew, not his father, that makes him a full Jew in the sight of Jews.

    Any pro Islamic huff and puff he may come out with is all Hoo Ha BS.

  • Ashby

    how entitled you must have been to have a choice. How wise you must be to state a matter of Christian fact in regards to historical justification for wars ?

    True identity is only found in dire circumstances, War happens to be a part of our (humans) natural process of evolution….

    Good Day

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  • Shawnie5

    It’s those “civil” atheists again.

    And this is only a little message board. Wouldn’t a whole world full of this be great? …not.

  • samuel Johnston

    I imagine that you attended a evangelical sales meeting, where you were introduced to the true/false test. This rhetorical device only impresses those who have never had to think for a living. As in most widely known ancient accounts, the story will be founded on real events and then embellished and modified by the retelling, therefore, the account will be partially true and partially false.
    This problem was addressed early on by claims of prophesies in the Old Testament, and magical devices, such as the Holy Spirit. Evangelicals are especially fond of “inspiration” by God as a form of verification. But who is to say who was inspired by God and was inspired by the devil? For that you need an Inquisition, so the whole line of verification rests on belief in the first place. Verily I say unto you, that completes the circular argument.

  • Frank

    And right on cue the pitiful respond. Well done. Pitiful but well done!

  • Frank


  • samuel Johnston

    Hi Charles,
    “The Crusades were not fought by Christians.”
    On that basis, I can maintain that you “(or anyone) is not a Christian.
    Why, because you do not meet my personal subjective test of “true”.
    As for your Obama comment. I must be a pro-Christian because I come from a long line of Protestants. Imagine my surprise!

  • Cod


  • Frank

    Can’t stop it.

  • BöserKobold

    dude, you’re way too biased for anyone (besides other christians) to ever take your opinion seriously

  • Edward

    I’m confused are you saying “tit for tat”? Are you comparing a post card that costs money and travels via snail mail to Facebook?

    You have me really confused as to if slavery and burning is still going on here in America, so therefore we can’t really argue what they are doing?

    So if your analogy is correct and ISIS creates a nuclear bomb and drops it on New York City, your headline would read “hello America it’s not like we didn’t do this already too!”?

  • Larry

    LMAO! That was the best response to the “They aren’t True Christians” bullcrap I have read in a long time. Mr. Johnson, if I was wearing a hat it would be tipped to you.

  • Larry

    “Second, if it is true, what are the consequences for not believing it?”

    So your God is venal, vain and prefers to inspire fear than loyalty. Pascal’s wager is a terrible argument to be made for belief. It undermines the proponent’s professed faith by calling up the notion that they may be guided simply due to paranoid fear and makes a mockery of belief in general. “Fake it for God” is what the argument calls for.

  • Edward

    I love the facts of how many Christians, Muslims would have to kill today to make up for what the crusades did! But I’m confused, the Muslims never killed during those times?

    So from history we are to understand that the crusades were the only killing going on and in the defense of the Muslims religion the muslims laid down their lives and turned the other cheek?

    Seems weird that you found history to be one sided and that you compare the past to today’s media capabilities.

    I can just see it now, Muslims in 1099ad sending emails to the pope about the atrocities.

  • Larry

    I am saying religious extremism comes in all flavors.

    As we condemn religious fanatics for burning people alive and making images of them for media consumption, we should not be surprised given our own history of religious fanatics murdering people and making images of them for media consumption. What ISIS does to prisoners now, Christian Americans did in the zeal to enforce white supremacy.

    We should recognize that religious extremist violence is not limited to any given faith.

  • john Richter

    Why no outrage from the religious right when Palin compared the Blessed Sacrament of Baptism to water boarding? Why no outrage when Rush defended Kony and his Lords Resistance Army, saying they were Christians doing Gods work? That is a huge insult to Christians… But they get outraged when Obama tries to tie religions together in a clumsy way, saying Christians have killed in the name of religion also, which is 100 percent true. Smells of more political feigned outrage.

  • Willy

    I’m just a simple guy, so I hesitate to get involved in this debate with people who are likely much more intelligent than I. Having said that, as a Christian I look back on what was done by those who called themselves Christian in the crusades, inquisition, etc. and judge that to be totally wrong and perhaps even evil. And should have been stopped by whatever force necessary. As a Christian I look at what is being done by those who call themselves Muslims (beheadings, crucifixions, burning people to death, etc) and judge that to be totally wrong and perhaps even evil. And it should be stopped by whatever force necessary. I told you I’m just a simple guy.

  • I am not religious, because God has no religion, whereas the Crusaders were religious as are you being a Protestant.

    Either you are a Protestant or you are a Christian, for you cannot be both.

  • @ Ashby

    What a good job the Godhead is not into evolution then.

  • Veronica

    Hey, Jackie5 is back! Welcome back, you big lovable XXL she-man 🙂

  • Karl

    Hey, whatever his beliefs are, yon Admiral is pretty funny. Shake yourself up a bit Shawney!

  • Karl

    Cue the bad disco music…

  • Yashua Messiah loves the simple guys and gals. It’s the ‘clever’ intelligent ones that He’s got no time for i.e. know-nothing Bible intellectuals, theologians and philosophers = Hellenisers.

    Be encouraged.

  • “Janet, there is one and only one reason a person should believe in Christianity — because they believe the story is true. A person should believe only if they are convinced that there was a man named Jesus who was who the Gospel writings claimed he was, that after he died, his tomb was empty, and that the explanation was that he literally did rise from the dead, since all alternative natural explanations for the empty tomb, put forth for the past 20 centuries, have been refuted after being closely examined.”

    This isn’t Christianity. This is paper and ink idol worship. These are not “Christian” believers but believers in little black idols set in rows on papyrus, parchment and paper who think God lives in these little black idols. God is a Spirit, not a man, not a Book, not a Story.

    I teach Celestial Torah Christianity which is a modern Jewish Gnostic form of Christianity that records Christianity as the world’s oldest recognizable religious symbol system, something you can learn about by actually researching the roots of Christian beliefs in ancient Egypt and the Near Eastern religions before the later Hebrews were in existence who used these older religious formats to create “Judaism”.

    It’s sad but true that no Bible scholars have found out about the Celestial Torah that is the spiritual root of Judeo-Christianity while the earthly written Torah/Tanakh of the ancient scribes and priests of Judah is a political enterprise–i.e. a man-made priesthood that relied on people’s gullibility and susceptibility to mesmerization by authority figures offering Scripts to think with for lazy believers who are unfortunately the vast percentage of religious people.

    Bible believers are in for a shock, again! as now archeological evidence clearly shows the writers of the Bible stories, the Torah/Tanakh stories, were fabricators of a history they never had. And doubly sad is the fact that their, my people’s Jewish myths of origin were and are still taken as real history and causing needless warring between Abrahamic believers using Bible fables to go out and kill people with while stealing their land away. Now Muhammadan paper and ink idol worshipers are doing the same thing. We need to get rid of Abrahamic religions in order for true Christianity to be able to be even seen apart from Paul’s theology.

  • Strange then that I see no mention of The Gospel (Good News) of the coming Kingdom of God on this earth, for a thousand years, nor any mention of Yashua Messiah’s Glorious Grace by which a man or woman can be saved.

  • “Slay them” – Allah (Surah)
    “Execute them” – Jesus (Luke 19:27)
    “Kill unbelievers” – Yahweh (Leviticus)

    “Just Believe” – Mohammed Atta (9/11)

    Atheism – “None of the above”

    Three cheers for Atheism.

  • Charles:

    “God has no religion”

    So God is an Atheist?
    Isn’t that like Ice Cream not believing in a freezer?

  • Charles,

    “A real Christian never takes up arms….”

    Excuse me?
    You do know your Bible don’t you?

    “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” – JESUS (Luke 22:36)
    “Bring to me those enemies of mine and EXECUTE THEM IN FRONT OF ME.” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    Don’t tell me these are only parables1 These are lessons which Jesus is teaching is disciples. Besides – all the witches have already been killed.

    True Christians are just doing
    what Jesus told them to do !

    “The master will cut him to pieces” – JESUS

  • Joseph

    The Lord’s Resistance Army is a terrorist cult, about as Christian as the Nazis. Check out the Wikipedia Article. There you can see a picture of two women whose lips have been cut off by the LRA.

  • James Who

    Members of the mob castrated (him), cut off his fingers, and hung him over a bonfire. He was repeatedly lowered and raised over the fire for about two hours. After the fire was extinguished, his charred torso was dragged through the town and parts of his body were sold as souvenirs. Christians or Muslims?

  • Shawnie5

    “On that basis, I can maintain that you “(or anyone) is not a Christian.
    Why, because you do not meet my personal subjective test of “true”.”

    Same thing goes on in reverse around here, all the time.

    Weigh in sometime when the discussion turns to “true” or “not true” atheists, OK?

  • Ben

    Shawnie5, Christians arguably have a worse record than atheists, a criminal one. And just look at our jail populations today: spilling over with Christians way beyond their fraction of the general population.

    I don’t buy the hackneyed argument that fear of a god, whether or not a fictitious one, is a way to better people. The opposite seems to be the case, especially for Christians who can just pass off responsibility for their sins via some old sacrifice ritual. Creepy stuff!

  • larry

    Exvept Atheism isn’t a religion or belief system. It has no tenets, scripture or dogma. Of is simply defined in the negative. A lack of religion or adherence to a belief system.

    Do Christians think that people buy the ,”they weren’t real Christians” excuse? I mean really. Can one be more in denial?

  • Charles, I have a mantra I post re prophesies. Prophesies, if they come true at all, always come true in ways believers least expect. Excellent example is us Jews expecting another David type Messiah and getting Jesus Christ instead. Some parts of Gospel and Revelation prophesies are coming true. Revelation’s Sword of Christ has been revealed as the Pentecostal Sword of Peace that “speaks” God’s will to smite the nations and rule them with a rod of iron. That iron rod was honored by over 500 Nazarean Christians at Easter in the year 2003 and is the Holy Land’s most spiritually powerful religious icon after the cross of Jesus. It is the Sign of the Messiah and it has gone to Bethlehem years before the Pope did to be pressed against the apartheid Separation Wall there, the Zionists legacy of splitting the twin cities apart, Jerusalem and Bethlehem, and forbidding the true descendants of the ancient Hebrew, Palestinians as verified by genetic analysis, from going back and forth as they have done for thousands of years. And this is being fulfilled in Revelation: “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to to him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his wife has made herself ready.”

    The very first Christian community vision of the return of Christ was of a woman – – “in feminine form came She.” Now She has been seen in spiritual vision arriving to meld East and West, Old World and New World together in spiritual harmony which demands new revelation for our new Age. The words of the New Testament’s authority ended with the ending of the last Aeon or Age as Jesus himself tells us at the end of Matthew’s Gospel: Celestial Torah Christianity decodes the astro-theological coding embedded within the whole Bible and especially so in the New Testament Gospels. Which is why Jesus told us not one wit of Scriptures will be lost. Without the matrix the embedded Celestial Torah would have been lost to history and was lost as priests of Judah and Paulists following them forbade astrological connecting to Scripture meanings– which effectively hamstrung them from delivering the true heavenly instructions or Celestial Torah that confirmed why the Messiah must be a “Son of Man” type of Humanitarian Sage King Archetype like Jesus Christ and not a Warrior King type like another David. Christianity has been thoroughly Revived now by new Jewish revelation and prophesy. Hallelujah! Good News is here at last!

    But here’s the rub: nobody wants to hear it, especially those who make their livings off of religion one way or another. I’ve been posting my radical Celestial Torah Christian comments for weeks now on RNS and given them website addresses to check out these new spiritual events that have been happening around my prophesy work and zero interest. That’s the case wherever I go in traditional church or synagogue places which I don’t usually go as I’m not welcome, us Gnostics never were and Celestial Torah Christianity is a Gnostic theology that rests upon seeking and finding Knowledge of God on your own merits instead of allowing yourself to be hoodwinked by man-made religious doctrines, doctrines that are failing now as the writers of the Bible have been caught out by archeological research as fabricators of Jewish myths of origin. You cannot get spiritual authority from tall tales and fables no matter how old and hoary their traditions or how many gullible people believe these myths taken as real history. God knows this while people look to Authority on earth for their Scripts so they don’t have to think for themselves–just follow the crowd, as does religious news which isn’t interested in Native American religion events unless the President or Pope is involved or some other recognized Authority figure. Meanwhile history is being made with the Josephine Vision. Two great visions are in spiritual motion and sooner or later you all will hear about it since you can’t receive it coming directly from the prophesy bearer– a familiar situation for us types and I’m darn lucky I live in America where my head won’t end up on a platter in our times here in the New World.

  • Jonathan Karl Kuykendall

    Interesting how you mention those statistics comparing white male christian support of the KKK in the 1920s and current Muslim support of terrorism worldwide… I’m curious, are white males the only ones who can be Christian? I think it is clear that the use of statistics in this article are misleading because they do not represent an accurate comparison of the population of each side. All in all the author of this article either is intentionally being misleading or has a elementary understanding of how to use statistics. Either way, this article is offensive because instead of fostering intelligent thought and discussion, it promotes ignorance by spreading ignorance (by wildly misusing statistics). And now instead of strengthening those who wish to do away with radical extremism, the author has wasted their (and my own) time, time that could have been spent reading an intelligent take on the president’s comments.

  • Fran


    There is no rapture…so I doubt you’ll see me in a “rapture capsule.”

    However, there will be a great crowd of people from all nations and people’s and tribes who will survive the upcoming great tribulation as well as God’s war against all his enemies at Armageddon. God’s people will be protected by him as a group on earth; so there will be no such need of a rapture.

  • Fran


    Jesus will be the judge of me, and not you! And for that, I am very grateful!

  • Ken

    Atheism is nothing times nothing making everything happen.

    Ice Cream is proof of a designer.

  • Ken

    Atheism drove the Communists to slaughter multitudes times more people (MILLIONS and MILLIONS) than all religions combined. And secularism is still driving murders and slavery of human beings in unimaginable numbers right now.

  • Ken

    Like it or not, Obama is as Christian as Muslims. His actions speak to an opposition to Christ and the Gospel every bit as perverted as that of Islam and the Muslims that have used it non-stop since Mohammad started its violence on non-Muslims to murder and enslave so many.

    Obama knows what he is doing. He is slick and reprobate and enjoys his power to rule over others as much as any Caliph before him.

  • Ken

    Atheist Communists. Or any abortion doctor.

    That’s my answers.

  • Jonathan Karl Kuykendall

    Your argument is invalid. Without hard evidence showing that all of these leaders admitted to using religious extremist tactics, you cannot accurately make that statement. Also I do not believe you have a real grasp on how the “kingdom of God” is supposed to work. “The kingdom of God” works through the strong serving the weak, the meek over the proud, etc. While I am not the final judge, I would wager that if one does not act like Jesus, then that person is most likely does not belong in the “kingdom of God”. Also where in the Bible is hate and persecution taught, and not by individual interpretations, but explicit passages that tell people to go kill others (please give specific verses)? Also under 7 percent of all major conflicts in recorded history are classified as of a religious nature. Correlation does not equal causation in your argument.

  • Limbo the Cheese

    Plase explain. How so?

  • Eddie

    This an excellent article about The Crusades in Context

  • This is an excellent articles about The Crusades in Context


  • Shawnie5

    No matter. It is still ridiculous in the extreme when you guys try to disclaim unappealing atheists, who clearly professed lack of any kind of belief in God, with “that is not atheism.”. Of course it is atheism. With no universally agreed-upon exemplar of atheism, you’re stuck with everyone who claims the title.

    “Do Christians think that people buy the ,”they weren’t real Christians” excuse? ”

    Buy it or not, as you please. Of course Christian people know that there are phonies among us, since Jesus specifically warned us, numerous times, to watch out for them. In fact, when asked by His disciples for instructions for the future, this was the very first warning He gave.

  • Eric

    Frankie No-Facts explain something? Hahaha, now that’s funny!

  • Ken,

    You are talking about religion. Not Atheism.

  • Who designed the designer?
    Your stuck in your own nonsense.

  • Shawnie:
    “Christian people know that there are phonies among us…”

    there is no safe way to interpret the bible:
    “Execute them” – JESUS (luke 19:27)

    don’t tell me it is just a parable. too late!
    The witches have already been burned alive.

  • shawnie5

    Hey Samuel, here’s your chance to tell us about the “no true atheist” fallacy.

  • @ Atheist Max

    Atheism is a religion and is yet another good reason why God has no religion. LOL

    Yashua Messiah never came to this earth in order to start a religion.

    All religions, including yours, are the works of hu-man kind on behalf of the Devil.

  • Prepare for war????? LOL. It doesn’t say that – you’re reading that in to it to make a strawman argument. Plus you’re playing the “out of context game” just as mainstream (fake) Christians do. You would make a good one of those. LOL Interesting, too, that as an atheist you have that characteristic in common with them, which proves that you have a devious religious mind like them.

    Luk 22:35 And He said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
    Luk 22:36 Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    No need for a parable in this instance. All He was doing was making the direct comparison of living totally in faith and trusting COMPLETELY in God for EVERYTHING i.e. no purse (wallet), no money and no shoes. Otherwise, the only alternative was the opposite i.e. trusting in the purse, trusting in money and with some shoes on their feet and go buy a sword because under their system (Satan’s ststem) you will need it.

    The Truth is a two egded sword and it cuts which ever way it is wielded and it cuts deep, right down into the inner parts of a man (into his heart) and draws metaphorical blood everytime. Ha ha no need for real swords.

  • @ Atheist Max

    Bolshevik Marxists are atheists – period. Check out Stalin’s record.

    You might want to look into what Mao Tse Tung got up to and Pol Pot.

  • The prophecy(s) you should focus on are those that are written in The Holy Scriptures and no others, especially those made up by false prophets.

    Luke 1:32 (KJV) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of The Highest: and The Lord God shall give unto Him The Throne of His father David:

    All you have to do now is work out where that Throne is today, because when He comes He will take it.

  • @ Larry Wrong!!

    Atheism is a belief system – the belief that there is no God. No one can prove that there is no God, so they BELIEVE that there is no God.

    On the other hand a real Christian KNOWS that there is a God, otherwise faith is blind.

  • Susan

    Stephen, I don’t see how you’re beliefs are any better from the Medieval Christians you so despise when it come to attitudes towards Jews. It is filled with anti-Judaism and antisemitism.

  • Susan

    A Protestant theologian, whose name escapes me, wrote that “Christianity had a theology of contempt” toward Judaism. I think that applies to you too, Stephen.

    I want to add that since the Babylonian exile Judaism has become a Rabbinic religion rather than a Tanach, Hebrew Bible, religion. You ignore thousands of years of Jewish thought and religion.

  • jack

    Accept your history white man. Accept what you have done to everyone you invaded. You’re just like ISIS. Which is the only reason you’re using ISIS. OBAMA finally said something worth listening to when he the your history in your face.

  • Bob

    Fran, that’s simply ridiculous. If your god is the supreme, omnipotent being that your myths claim it is, then it would have no need to fight a war such as you are claiming it is going to. It could just make what it wants happen with less than a snap of its fingers, and with no such battle required. So apparently you have one of those less-than-omnipotent “gods”. Pathetic. Think about it and get over your silly myths already.

    But Herr Admiral is right; you do belong in a capsule, in a sense.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

  • Karla


    Jesus will be the judge of both you and me, not just you. You know so happens if you are not repent of your False Religion for so much you will suffer in eternal hellfire.

  • Oscar

    As has been said many times, even if atheists or some other group could be shown to be the worst human beings ever (atheists are not, and even if they were, they still couldn’t be as murderous as the god of the Christian stories), that would not prove any veracity to the crazy Christian myths.

  • Bob

    So Charles, why can’t your omnipotent jerk in the sky just do away with Satan who keeps bothering us like you are claiming? Or is your “god” one of those less-than-omnipotent ones?

    Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

  • Bob

    Your faith is definitely blind (and wrongly placed), Charles. You got only that part right.

    Furthermore, “Atheism is no more a religion than not collecting stamps is a hobby.” It is merely a lack of belief in any god story.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

  • Tim

    Thank you Mr. President for putting all those self-righteous Christians in their place! Now please go on a tour to all of the Arab nations and apologize for our anger at their unspeakable acts which are occurring int the PRESENT. It took ACLF years just to get to the point of the Ft. Hood massacre to be described as jihad instead of “workplace violence.” Total inaction or aggresive action against
    Christians in Sudan and a myriad other places. I’ll have more respect for our
    President when he can say radical and muslim in the same breath!

  • Tim

    Please be reasonable! We have a clear and present real danger which our President ignores at every opportunity, and yes defends vigorously when he can. Do us all a favor and come up with a Christian or a Jew doing anything remotely related to these atrocitites TODAY! I won’t hold my breath.

  • Pingback: Was Obama right about the Crusades and Islamic extremism? | The Beacon()

  • @ Bob

    You sound just like those who would have said exactly the same things to Noah as he was building the ark.

    Satan’s time is nearly over – all the signs are there IF you can read the

  • Oscar,

    I am not here to defend the satanic Cainite-Judeo-Christian Religion which has done all manner of wicked things in Christ’s name.

    Having said that it has not killed anywhere near as many as Stalin and his henchmen or the other two genocidal maniacs I mentioned. You need a history reality check and to drop your biased propagandised agenda.

  • I accept my history and with no guilt whatsoever.

    I suggest you research black Professor Tony Martin and come back when you have learnt something.

  • TD

    You’re somewhat limited in comparing historical instances. Past deeds, regardless of depravity or even gravity, have little to do with what’s happening today. Past (archaic) moments in history do not necessarily pose mass ideologies that remain today…except for those we see in fact. That said, the Muslim history (barbarisms) DO remain today. Christian acts in war, acts against the blacks, anti-Semitism, bigotry, and the like are no longer organized in great mass as they were in distant history. These are all very narrow, in comparison to what Muslims are perpetrating in extremisms, proliferation of Sharia Law, acts against humanity are nothing to be compared to what else is going on. Granted, history should always be remembered and referenced, but in a manner to improve upon humanity–do better in loving one another. Muslims carry no such attribute…it is truly a religion of Satan.

  • TD

    Incorrect… Passing historical events as act of today is a false comparison. Recent history (within the past 40 years) is only relevant when making any comparison to current events; unless, current events are a continuation of distant history. Humanity, in mass and general, evolves to improve upon humaneness. Islam has not improved since Mohammed had his self-acclamations of “Allah,” based only his experiences and hallucinations derived from excess heat to the brain. Anyone that can convolute humanity in ways that destroy the human race is feeble-minded at best.

  • Larry

    @Charles Crosby
    No it isn’t. You have no idea what you are talking about, Instead of demonizing atheists, try talking to them once in a while. Even Max will tell you he doesn’t believe “there is no God”. He will say there is no proof God exists. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lacking.

    Atheists don’t generally say there is no God. They say there is no evidence or reason to believe God exists. Believers are absolutely certain in their belief of God. Atheists choose to say given the uncertainty and lack of evidence, there is no necessity to believe.

    Religious belief is not a default value. Its something acquired. It is as much a religious belief as “off” is a channel or bald is a hair color.

  • Larry

    It is interesting how you are avoiding the issue I presented to set up a bunch of strawman points. Are you denying the KKK and ilk wrapped their acts around Christian belief? It looks like you are trying to avoid or minimize them in order to make nonsense points about the frequency of atrocity.

    The point which you are so desperate to avoid, the one which seems to draw the most fire from apologists and religious extremists is that atrocity and bad behavior can’t just be lumped in as “those crazy Muslims”. That every religion has its share of violent extremists. Christianity is no more exempt from this than any other religion.

  • Larry

    I guess the expression, “the more things change, the more they stay the same” and “history repeats itself” are utterly lost on you.

    Anyone who thinks Islamic State’s acts are unique to Islam are ignorant of history. Religion breeds extremism by its nature. All religions do this. They continue to do this. Is Lord’s Resistance Army any different than Islamic State? Only in funding and media presence. Both use religion as an excuse to act like bandits of yore. There are versions of these barbarians in all faiths all through the world.

  • Larry

    “Without hard evidence showing that all of these leaders admitted to using religious extremist tactics, you cannot accurately make that statement”

    CULTS of personalities have nothing to do with religious trappings and tropes? They even use religious language in their title. Hard evidence is all around, your ignorance is not my concern. I described tactics used by both religious and political fanatics
    “Creating enemies to hate, horrific arbitrary punishments to fear, giving opt outs to moral thinking by appealing greater powers. All part of religious fanaticism and a blueprint to autocratic power.”
    You can pretend religious fanaticism doesn’t use such tactics but the evidence throughout history is all too apparent to anyone willing to look.

    “Kingdom” of God is still describes a despotic situation. Your use of “strong serving weak” denotes both inequality and indentured servitude among people even in the afterlife. Even in your excuses, you use language of dictatorship and slavery. It is not a Republic of God or a Democracy of God. It is a system of enforced inequality under divine absolute authority.

    “Also where in the Bible is hate and persecution taught,”

    I dunno, what has Bryan Fisher said lately? So who was Fred Phelps quoting all the time? 🙂

    If you checked upthread, Max listed a number of passages to that effect. Your laziness and feigned ignorance is duly noted. I am not going to pretend that you are unfamiliar with any of this.

    Denying atrocity and persecution has been done, is done and continues to exist by those who use the Bible as excuses is too ridiculous to address. You have 2000 years of bad behavior to choose from. You are ignorance trolling. I can’t take it seriously.

    So what percentage of those major conflicts in existence NOW are religious in nature. How many aggressive wars between nations are being fought as we speak? Certainly not as many as the sectarian conflicts being fought right now. Political terrorism is almost extinct religious extremist terrorism has overshadowed it.

  • Larry

    “Of course Christian people know that there are phonies among us”

    Which as you have made abundantly clear is anyone considers themselves Christian who is embarrassing to your belief (because cheap denial is much easier than informed reflection) or believes differently than you do (because you have always considered yourself the ultimate arbiter as to who is a “True Christian”)

  • Charles Crosby, please stop posting hate speech against indigenous people. If you are European and part of the Pauline Christian movement, you really do need to be thoroughly ashamed and drop the phony Pauline Bible thumper proselytizing. I am Jewish and Christian and I don’t need Gentiles telling me about my Jewish prophet line and what scriptures to believe. You don’t know what your god is or religion is, no Pauline Gentile Christian does who believes the Bible records true history. You need to go back to the beginning and start over because the Pauline interpretation of the Messiah spiritual movement is half-assed at best and needs the Celestial Torah correction that does away with man-made political agendas overlaid onto basic Christian theology. When you want to learn about Celestial Torah Christianity let me know, I am only too glad to oblige in sharing what God has lead me to find and recover.

    And Susan, you too, need to know that Pauline Christianity is facing its End Times now as Israeli archeology exposed the writers of the Bible stories which Paul took as historical truth as fabricators of Jewish myths of origin stocked with legendary people and events that never existed except in earlier pagan versions matching astrological lore that is embedded in most every ancient religion including Judaism and Christianity. God saw to this keeping of God’s Sign Language because the earthly writers of spiritual news could not be trusted to tell the truth that sets you free to be a moral person and not a hypocrite as so many Pauline “Christians” are. Especially Evangelicals who will vote in killers into highest office in direct disobedience to Jesus’ teachings.

  • Larry

    Chucky, Stalin learned how to be an effective dictator from his years in the Seminary. He learned it living in a country where the state sponsored church frequently whipped up crowds to murder outsider groups en masse. In his native Georgia, church sponsored hatred of Jews and Muslims was frequently invoked in order to reinforce Czarist control, in what was a rough frontier province.

    Stalin simply appropriated what he learned from religious belief and used it to serve his own ends. Stalin even continued the same pogroms against Jews and Central Asian Muslims that the Orthodox Church began. He developed his cult of personality on the same lines as the Czar’s divine right rule.

    But you are simply throwing out a canned argument and displaying ignorance of history.

  • Charles,

    “under their system (Satan’s ststem) you will need it.”

    Complete nonsense. Good grief what a ridiculous dichotomy.

    And your defense of Jesus is thousands of years too late.
    The innocent people accused of witchcraft have already been slaughtered for Jesus. 400,000 innocent people have been accused of witchcraft and killed because of this ridiculous, evil Jesus cult.

    This Jesus nonsense has caused more needless misery
    in the world than any other human invention.


    JESUS argues against decent behavior, fairness and civilization.


    (1 Corinthians 5:11)

    “Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.” (1 Corinthians 15:33)

    “But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.” (1 Corinthians 5:11)

    “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting” (2 John 1:10)

    “Avoid Them” (Romans 16:17)

    “For whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.” (2 John 1:11)

    “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault.” (Matthew 18:15)

    “have nothing more to do with him….he is condemned.” (Titus 3:9-11)

    “Let him who has done this be removed from among you.” (1 Corinthians 1:13)

    “have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.” (2 Thessalonian 3:14)

    “Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is…not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

    “If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed!” (1 Corinthians 16:22)


    “deem them unworthy…remove your blessings of peace.” – JESUS (Matthew 10:13)

    “Don’t waste….on the people who are unholy. Don’t throw your pearls to pigs!” – JESUS (Matthew 7:6)

    “shake the dust off…FOR A TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM.” – JESUS (MARK 6:11)

    Wretched, miserable, horrible nonsense.
    It makes sense that he would be crucified by the authorities – he was a wicked, disgraceful worm.

  • @Charles Crosby,

    “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of The Highest:”

    How convenient for your Ego that your God gets to be the Highest one – nobody higher than YOUR god?

    Sorry but only your preening ego is doing the talking. If you read a few more books and look around you’d notice “The Most High” god is ALLAH.

    “Infidels are those who declare: “God is the Christ, the son of Mary.” (Sura 5:17)

    It is only your word against someone else’s.
    Go ahead and strut your ego again – let’s see if we can find an equally egotistical, strutting Muslim to argue with you! Between the two of you there will be no success – only egotistical strutting and big claims.

    Over nothing! – since the existence of either of these gods
    makes no sense at all.

    Religion is poison.

  • Susan

    Whether the stories in the Tanach, the Hebrew Bible are literally true or not, there still was a Jewish people. I cannot argue with you when you make no sense.

  • @Charles Crosby,

    Nobody has to look to the Crusades or the Inquisition!! Just look at recent history:

    The most Catholic country in all of Africa!
    It exploded in TYPICAL MURDEROUS RELIGIOUS RAGE (that is what religion is really for, genocide) and in 1994 thousands of Catholic priests and nuns led an assault on their neighbors which wiped out 800,000 people in a matter of weeks!

    Father Anatole Seromba single handedly killed more than 2000 people!
    His nuns assisted him on other murders.

    Years later the international tribunal found him in hiding! Where?
    Protected by the Catholic Church and working in a parish in Italy!!!

    Religion is despicable, revolting, unthinking, racist, egotistical garbage.

  • Larry


    There is nothing inherent in any religion which precludes fanatical violence. Christians are simply reaping the benefits of those who have stripped religious authority of its political power. Those who said that God and government are not one in the same.

    There is nothing democratic or that calls for religious freedom within the tenets of Christianity. For most of its history the religion was used to support despotism and intolerance.

    We only have to look not too long ago when genocide by Christians was going in in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Honduras. We have the Lord’s Resistance Army running amok right now. White supremacist violence has not disappeared.

    Where there is no separation of church and state, atrocity is inevitable. Yet many Christians in this nation demand such things.

  • Lew

    You religionists (all of whom seem to be Christians) and all of the words and ideas you have garnered from the Christian Bible, are all the evidence I need to conclude that orthodox/extremist Christians are not much different than their Muslim counterparts. True, you are not running around killing people as much as you have in the past. However, you ARE telling me and everyone else who doesn’t buy into your B.S. should live our lives the way YOU think YOUR god requires you to live. Even in doing so, so many of you are hypocrites when you totally disregard the teachings of Jesus Christ, whom you claim to be the Messiah mentioned by various prophets in the Jewish “Bible.” You are doing worse than just killing us, you are forcing your religion down our throats against our will, making making a mockery out of YOUR claim that we all have free will. Women don’t have “free will” when it comes to their own bodies according to most of you. You would take away from us the very free will you claim god has given us. We don’t need theocracy in this country. We need more people to think and act like your Jesus. I suggest you all read your New Testament and begin acting accordingly!

  • Barry the Baptist

    If that is what Jesus meant, then he should write into a philosophical journal or newspaper so that he can clear that up and people can stop taking him “out of context.” His supporters can, then, dedicate their time spent defending him to something else.

    Really, it would be nice if he and his dad would stop being impenetrable mystics and just write a couple more books to clear up the first one. I’m sure they would sell well.

    The distant mountain-top wiseman schtick is as dead as disco. Book-signing tours and appearances on Oprah is where it’s at!

  • Barry the Baptist

    Jesus, may his name be whispered huskily until May, may have confided in you the contents of his naughty-nice list, but the rest of us would like some context for your claim, please.

  • Barry the Baptist

    What country are you in that they use fire and digit-lopping to terminate unwanted pregnancies? Or to claim that your evidence for people in the sky watching and judging us all is, eh, unconvincing?

  • Susan, you can’t argue when you allow your religious propaganda to overrule historical facts. Fact: The Torah/Tanakh stories are Jewish myths of origin and not true history of Jews. We began to be identified as a separate from Canaanite groups beginning in 700 B.C., not 1800 B.C. with the mythical Abraham and Sarah. Or Moses and David or Solomon. All mythical people. You need to start reading why Schlomo Sand who teaches history at the University of Tel Aviv says there was no Diaspora as Jewish religious history teaches. Genetic analysis of Palestinian Semitic population has more or less stayed put after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. to become later converted to Islam vs. converting to Christianity, the Roman Empires new religion after 325 A.D. Modern Palestinians are the genetic inheritors of the ancient Hebrews and European Jewish converts are killing them and stealing their land. My Ashkenazim ancestry proves I am basically European/Central Asian descended, with virtually no genetic ties to Palestine even with my small Sephardic ancestry that came through my Spanish Jewish ancestors and traced back to Tunisia and Libya which once converted to Judaism. None of us who are not Palestinian Jews have any “Right of Return” at all to Palestine. This is the horrible crime against humanity that Zionist European Jewish convert descendants have foisted on the world to create the odious takeover of Palestine by Israeli European imperialist colonizers copying and repeating all the racist genocidal wrongs of European colonization in Palestine.

    Please get morality, Susan, as you are letting Zionist and Bible propaganda instead of historical truth and ethical consideration guide your beliefs about us Jews and our supposed right to create Israel by thievery and destruction of Palestine.

  • @Ken,

    “Atheism drove the Communists to slaughter”


    You got that exactly backwards.
    The Communists drove the atheists to slaughter people.

    ENFORCEMENT OF A CLAIM ABOUT A GOD is called RELIGION whether it is Islam, Hard Atheism, Christianity, Judaism or any other claims.

    Simple Non-belief in a God is not an enforcement policy!
    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion” – US Constitution (That is Atheism)

    Unlike non-belief,
    Christianity, Judaism and Islam ARE enforcement policies.


    Religion is a connect-the-dots mass murder program.
    Just look at how Catholics, Jews, Muslims and Hindus have acted in history.

    No Agnostic ever caused murder based on their Agnosticism!

  • @ Larry

    I demonise no one, they demonise themselves and need no help from me.

    There’s plenty of proof that God exists by just looking at the creation, so those who say He doesn’t exist are living in denial and by default and left only with beliefs.

    As Paul accurately describes:

    Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of Him from The Creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

    Here are some golden rules for you Larry.

    1) Christianity i.e. following Yashua Messiah is not a religion.
    2) The Trinity is a lie – a conjuring trick.
    3) No man or woman can ‘make a decision’ for Christ.
    4) Many are called FEW are chosen.

  • samuel Johnston

    Jack, Jack,
    Everbody had savages for ancestors. Everybody made war on their neighbors.
    Everybody had slaves. The Romans were the most successful pirates of all time.
    What does that prove? To me only proves that some savages are more successful than others. Had the Aztecs (or Incas) invaded Spain, instead of the other way around, they would certainly have murdered and enslaved them, taken their beautiful children, sacrificed some and brought the nobel children to the capitol to be brainwashed.

  • Hello Max

    Yes The Truth is hard to understand, I know, having been ignorant like you myself in the past.

    Dichotomies???? Nah not into those.

    It’s no good your quoting to me what the satanic Cainite-Judeo-Christian Religion has done. They were never Christians and I attack them all the time.

    Defending Jesus???? LOL He doesn’t need me to defend Him, HE defends me. Defending Jesus? Now that is a wierd dichotomy.

    You said:

    “This Jesus nonsense has caused more needless misery in the world than any other human invention.”

    A hollow empty emotional opinionated claim. Atheist Bolshevik Marxism is far worse than fake Christianity. You need to do your research instead of making ignorant claims.

    I would shun you if we met – would that be a crime? It would certainly be unwise for me to spend any prolonged amount of time in your company. About two minutes and I would have to remove the dust from my shoes.

    Execute??? Yes they were executed when The Romans sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD. No doubt all those Jews who crucified Him died in that three year siege, either through starvation or the sword.

    I have skim read the rest of your post and it looks like more puerile emotional nonsense and not worth replying to. E.g. avoiding people with bad morals sounds like good sense to me.

    Re not receiving bad teaching I never let JW’s across my threshold – DO YOU?????

    Time to stop scraping the barrel for an argument.

  • If you click on my handle it will take you to my blog where you will find all the proof for what I say. Please let me know if you need any help.

  • No you’re ignorant but with a smug know-it-all attitude.

    Stalin was half Jewish and Jesuit educated and as I have already said The Cainite-Judeo-Christian Religion which includes Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Protestantism with all it’s Judaised divisions is not Christian – they are religious money making organisations or corporations.

    Stalin did not turn on the Jews until his paranoia took over towards the end of his life and he went more or less insane.

    Bolshevik Marxism is Jewish.

  • I am not talking religion and all your whingeing will not change anything.

    He is coming to take King David’s Throne and Stephen Lewis doesn’t seem to know the answer to my question perhaps you do.

    I boast only in Yashua Messiah not in myself. Perhaps that’s why you can’t handle it.

  • justme

    ironically commenting without falling to the hypocrisy found all over this page, I have to say that I will render an opinion which could be construed as judging the president, his beliefs as a human being, and his observation of Christianity and the state of affairs with regard to other movements, which by the way are none of my business as they are human beings doing what they choose. First, the president’s making statements in his observation is his prerogative and it is then our choice to listen, understand it is his mere judgement as a human being, either agree or not, and let that be. I however and unfortunately am choosing to join you in judging the president and say that I believe the president misspoke. Not misspoke on knowledge or perhaps even not misspoke in his very own judging, but misspoke on the fact that a belief is something each and every one of us have within us and that belief can manifest itself in and from different forms. and those individual beliefs are unique in that they are only known to each person himself, and dependent on how privvy one is to another’s soul, we cannot know the extent of what another person feels or believes or thinks or knows. We do know that we do not truly know. In fact it is impossible and only in the eyes of God to know.

    Therefore I will say that unless anyone, including the President, has a clear understanding of another’s thoughts, actions, and even words, he should not venture to presume the relationship a person may have with God, Jesus Christ, or anyone else for that matter, a god or not. and whether a person associates with a group or not is at best insigificant.. cause, unless I missed the boat, last I heard we all die alone. The fact of the matter is, generally speaking, you just don’t know a person’s soul. and the way it looks, most people just want goodness.

    I hesitate speaking of slavery for it is nothing less than ignorance to reference it in the context in which it is referenced here, more specifically, color of skin or national origin. That makes me sick quite frankly that I have to thrive amongst foolishness. But, thriving as I am, here’s my two cents and that goes for all sides of this convoluted and antagonistic and would be exhaustive conversation on one person’s approach or attempt thereof anyway.. the word “slavery” in the Gospel, referenced in the original comment and all over this forum is in fact synonymous with “service.” And wherever you see the word “slavery” in the Gospel it means precisely, “service” and it absolutely means service to one of two, and that is either God our Creator (goodness) or the devil. And it is up to each one of us to, yes, be a slave, to either one or the other and that’s that.

  • What hate speech? Are you a PC Bolshevik Marxist liberal?

    Which indigenous people are you refering to?

    I am not European, I am a British Judahite/Levite and a True Israelite of the Tribes of Judah and Levi. Nor am I a Pauline anything. I am a follower of Yashua Messiah – period and I have no religion.

    Gentiles? Do you even know what a Gentile is?

    Ah a Judaising anti-Paul blasphemer – new we’re getting to it.

    Philp 3:2 (KJV) Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

  • For your information the name Lewis is a Levitical name so you’re a Levite not a Jew. Jews are Canaanites from Judah and the Adullamite’s daughter Bathshuah in Genesis 38. Adullamites were Canaanites.

  • How many times do I have to tell you I have no religion and I am not a part of the Christian Religion so why do you keep posting comments to me about what they have done?

  • You speak for yourself, my ancestors were always civilised.

  • Susan

    You believe Shlomo Sand, because he says what you want to hear. You accept what he say completely and uncritically.

    I don’t believe the Bible is literally true so how could I be letting Bible propaganda affect me?

    How can Zionists be committing genocide when the population of both Gaza and the West Bank grows continuously? I never said that Zionists were perfect, but you don’t see that they were desperate people trying to save European Jewry, especially the Jews in Russia and Eastern Europe in the early 1900s. Alternatives to Zionism have been tried and failed.

    Don’t say “us Jews”. You have called Judaism a “dead packhorse”. You have nothing but contempt for Judaism and Jews. You can’t prove that your so-called “Celestial Torah” even exists. You talk about Celestial Torah Christianity. You cannot believe in Jesus and be Jewish.

  • DeaconJohnM.Bresnahan

    Why do Christians get all the blame for anything to do with slavery??? According to most accounts Africans were rounded up and sold into slavery by fellow Africans making the whole slavery enterprise possible. And many of those rounding up Africans to sell into slavery were Moslem.
    And it was Christianity that finally banned slavery almost 200 years ago. BUT in places like the Sudan Moslems are TODAY still running various forms of slave businesses.

  • Well no wonder your beliefs are mixed up nonsense when you go around labeling people by surface details. Fyi, I am not Jewish because of my Lewis name which is my Gentile father’s name although many Jews do use it as it is the Greek form of “LevI” but I’ve had my dna checked and it is through my mother and her mother’s Ashkenazim and Sephardic heredity that I am entitled to be called a Jew. “Lewis” is also derived from the ancient tree associations that were in place in pagan times in England. I do hope you’re not one of the Gentiles claiming to be descendants of Jesus’ family or ones claiming to be Jews as one of the Lost Tribes which were not lost but fabricated stories of being lost tribes in order to transfer political tribal power to Judah priests.

    And please, like I’ve explained before you cannot use the Bible as spiritual authority now like you did for Genesis. I too use the Bible for reference but that’s all. Just reference, not for absolute religious doctrine which cannot be derived from believing in stories about people and events that never happened. E.g. “Noah” and the world Flood, “Abraham” being given a Deed to Canaan from God , “Moses” and the Exodus, “David”s fabulously rich and powerful Israel kingdom or “Solomon’s Temple”..

  • Robin Smith

    I HAVE heard of them – they (or rather their leader) may call themselves “The Lord’s Resistance Army,” but they have nothing to do with the Lord I serve. Lead by a criminal named Joseph Kony, the LRA invades villages, often during church services, slaughtering and or mutiiating adult worshippers and kidnapping the children and turning them into child soldiers who to preserve their own lives are required to kill friends and relatives, and sex slaves. Kony and his chief officers have been charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity. When some of his officers attempted to participate in peace talks with the Ugandan government, Kony had them murdered. If you think Kony is a Christian, then you support Christianist extremism that looks a lot like the Islamist extremist ISIL with a different label – kidnapping, murder, terrorism…. both groups have no respect for the rule of law. They are thugs masquerading under a religious label

  • Jack


    The Lord’s Resistance Army is one of the sickest groups of marauders on the planet. They are not Christians despite the name. They were an enemy of the southern Sudanese Christians in their brave struggle against the Islamist extremist in the north. There is no atrocity that they have not committed during their reign of terror along borders.

    If Rush really said that, he should be ashamed of himself. I didn’t read the posts that have followed, but I had to respond to this…..

  • Jack

    All true, but there is a time and a place to say or not say things. The time and place for chest-beating and self-criticism as a nation and culture is not in public before the entire world while in the middle of a serious war against radical Islamists who will use everything that’s said as a propaganda and recruitment tool, especially when we dredge up Middle Ages history concerning the Crusaders. Al Qaeda must be in sheer ecstasy over the president focusing on the Crusaders, which is exactly what it calls us.

    The counter-extremist experts in the federal government — especially the ones advising us on how to fight the battle for hearts and minds in the Muslim world — must not have been happy campers over this.

  • Jack

    Samuel looks up from his push cart and assumes everybody else earns their living the same way.

    Samuel, I couldn’t be a sales person if my life depended on it. That’s one reason I’ve never tried. The other reason is that I have zero interest in it. You couldn’t be more mistaken…..and that fits with your response to my earlier post when you showed contempt for anyone who tries to discern what other people are about. As I said, if you’re fully in the adult world, you had darned well better be a student of other people or you will likely make a mess of your life. Reading people well is an indispensable skill that you seemingly lack. Unless you’re an idiot savant who is a genius at one and only one thing and insulate yourself from such things by the money you consequently make, lacking discernment has probably hurt you plenty.

    Meanwhile, what I have tried to do is untangle the webs of incoherence you sometimes spin in your posts. It hasn’t been easy but someone’s got to do it or you’ll just be babbling in a corner, with others avoiding you.

  • Susan

    I am not labeling you by surface details. If you believe in Jesus then you have stopped being Jewish even if your mother was Jewish. I don’t care about your last name. Normally, one is Jewish if one’s mother is Jewish, but if you believe in Jesus then you have given up your Jewishness and you are no longer Jewish. You are the one who said that you wanted to free Christianity from the dead packhorse of Judaism.

    I don’t use the Bible for alone for spiritual authority and of course Jews don’t take the Bible literally, but read the Bible along with centuries of commentaries and Midrash. However, that does not mean that there was not an ancient kingdom of Israel. That is proved by archeology.

  • Jack

    You’re correct, Raven.

  • Jack

    There is no evidence that Obama is a Jew. But for people who hate the Jews, anyone else they hate must, in their mind, be a Jew.

    Obama is Obama. There’s nothing mysterious about the man. There are no hidden things to explain. He’s simply a radical lefty who campaigned that way and has governed accordingly whenever he has been able to do so. Those who say he deceived people weren’t paying much attention to his words or his road record.

  • Jack

    What are you talking about…..I just expressed outrage a moment ago at the praising of the grotesquely misnamed Lord’s Resistance Army and their psychotic leader Kony. And if Rush really said that, shame on him for being ignorant of the character of this vicious band of cult murderers.

  • Jack

    Barry “the Baptist” probably works for Samuel the salesman.

  • Jack

    Stephen, Gnosticism is at its core both anti-Jewish and anti-Christian. It asserts that the God of the Hebrew Bible is a monstrous demon who created matter which it calls evil. From Marcion to the Nazis, it has brought nothing but trouble both to church and synagogue and ultimately to millions of innocent human beings.

    The so-called Gnostic gospels were written up to a century or more after the four canonical Gospels and unlike the Gospels, bear no conceivable relation to the actual world of Jesus — ie to first-century Israel.

    And whatever the source of what you’re preaching, it leads in your case to hatred of the Jews and Israel. It bears no relation either to historical Christianity at any time in its history or to Judaism of any kind.

  • Jack

    Atheist Max apparently wants more than his 15 minutes of fame.

  • Jack

    Obama is Obama…..he’s a radical lefty who campaigned as such, was elected as such, and whenever possible, has governed as such.

    Again…..nothing deceitful or mysterious here. It’s just that the American people either don’t know or don’t care.

    As for his religion — again, no mystery at all. He attended Rev. Wright’s church, which combined Marxist liberation theology with racial politics.

    It’s basically a heretical form of Christianity driven more by politics than religion.

    Again…..no mystery whatsoever.

  • Ancient Israelite kingdom is unknown to archeology although ancient Israelites did exist in settlements. In Egypt as part of the Hyksos invaders they worshiped the Egyptian god Set and probably Shamash too as Shamash sun god worship is embedded in the Sampson story as well as in the Hannakah celebration where Shamash is the name of the “Helper” central candle on the special Menorah. The later Hebrews were descendants of these pagan religionists and seemed to have adopted the Canaanite top God EL except they submerged EL into his son, Yahweh in the Sinai Covenant that created “I AM” or YHWH, the gussied up name of Yahweh.

    I am legally of the Jewish peoples but I don’t make claim to the Jewish people as being a separate group from all believers in God and the Messiah/Christ. But I do honor what seems clear to me judging the historical record that God for whatever reasons has channeled the God Most High and Messiah spiritual relationship knowledge into Jewish hands. Whenever Gentiles get their hands on our Jewish religious ideas they get them all screwed up. My people’s priests deliberately screwed them up at the beginning in order create a priesthood in opposition to enemy priesthoods. But to me, as a Jewish Christian Celestial Torah believer and not an earthly torah believer, the priesthoods cannot be trusted at all for delivery of God’s Messages in their pure forms I think only us prophesy bearers experience. Our words are then redacted by priesthoods to fit political aims.

    You’re lucky you get the original rant from the source in me, your friendly neighborhood Jewish Christian Celestial Torah teaching prophet-at-large..

  • Jack

    Correct, Susan. Stephen is apparently in some cult which is neither Christian nor Jewish.

    No, I don’t mean Jews for Jesus, which combines actual Christianity with Jewish ethnic identity….that’s certainly controversial, but Stephen is in a completely different world in this regard.

    Stephen has embraced Gnosticism, which is an old belief, rejected by Christians and Jews alike, that matter is an evil creation or illusion brought about by a demigod or evil being. Thus the God of the Jews, who in Genesis looked at the universe and hence matter and said it was “good,” is maligned by Gnostics as a devil. The Jews, by extension, are called people of matter and hence are demonized as well.

    Apparently, this cult also seeks to delegitimize Israel — note how Stephen cites the neo-Nazi-popularized Khazar theory, which says Jews aren’t really Jews but imposters and oppressors of the Palestinians.

    On the Christian side, second-century Christianity successfully combated Marcion, who tried to corrupt it through Gnosticism, which involved removing the Old Testament completely from Christendom. Seventeen centuries later, the Nazis tried to do likewise, but even the otherwise cowardly German churches stood up and opposed this.

    Stephen may be a perfectly nice guy in daily life, but his beliefs are a case study of how Gnosticism breeds both anti-Semitism and anti-Christian sentiments.

  • Jack

    What Obama said was mostly factual, but very inappropriate for the time and place we are in, and the place he was in that day.

    And as for you, “jack,” you sound like you are racist against white people. Racism of all kinds is always wrong. We’re all just people and race means nothing and should mean nothing.

  • Jack

    Wow….two cultists at once — one a self-hating Jewish Gnostic, the other a believer in the old British Israelite cult who wishes he were Jewish or Israelite or whatever.

    We need Dr. Walter Martin’s old classic, “Kingdom of the Cults” to keep track….

  • Jack

    Stephen, that’s demonstrably false nonsense based on faulty methodology. The evidence within the Old Testament books alone is sufficient, based on the rules of historical evidence, to prove the existence of the Jewish people long before 700 BC.

    Susan, if you want to read a classic commentary that touches on these issues, one which has stood the test of time, read Rabbi Hertz’s commentary on the Pentateuch and Haftorah readings. He was the chief rabbi of the British Empire before WW II and his scholarship on the very issues we’re talking about was and remains impeccable.

    To this day, evangelicals as well as Jews of nearly all stripes consult the Hertz commentary.

  • Jack

    Susan, Stephen doesn’t even believe in a real Jesus…..but a Gnostic one…..which both Jews and Christians reject as fictitious.

  • Jack

    Susan evidently thinks Stephen is a Jewish Christian and is trotting out the standard lines of argument against claiming to be both. She doesn’t realize that Stephen is neither. He is not a Jewish Christian, a Jew for Jesus, a messianic Jew, or anything like it. The dynamics of his beliefs fall far out of the orbit of anything that is either Christian or Jewish.

    His Gnostic beliefs contradict both religions completely.

  • Charles:

    “Dichotomies???? Nah not into those.”
    Yes, you are. You said it is either “Christ’s way or Satan’s way” – that is called a dichotomy. And a completely phony one. Because there are other options – as in, ‘Christ’ is nonsense and Satan is nonsense.

    “Defending Jesus???? LOL He doesn’t need me to defend Him, HE defends me. Defending Jesus? Now that is a wierd dichotomy.”

    No. That is not a dichotomy.
    And yes, you are defending and arguing in the favor of a despicable, horrible God you call Jesus.

    “Atheist Bolshevik Marxism is far worse…”

    Marxism was enforced as a religion and it was just as stupid as all other religions, like Christianity.

    “Execute??? Yes they were executed when The Romans sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD.”

    Finally you agree that Jesus is a sick, sadistic, murdering jerk.
    Thanks for agreeing with me.

    “avoiding people with bad morals sounds like good sense to me.”

    Indeed. Just don’t pretend you are not being a typical, egotistical, judgmental hypocrite when you do.

    Your Jesus is profoundly despicable and I’m glad you agree with me.

  • Larry

    So you think any self-professed Christian is incapable of violence and oppressing others because of the nature of the faith?

    That is funny because Christians couldn’t even get along with different sects of their own faith for much of their history.

    Even if violence is allegedly disavowed by Christian teaching, it has never been adopted by its followers by and large. Pacifism and preaching of non-violent actions are the outliers of the religion and very small minorities of Christianity. All others have preached how violence, war, slavery, genocide or any atrocity can be justified in God’s name.

    Its this kind of bad excuse making which destroys any credibility people have in devout Christians. Any lie, distortion omission to protect the faith is given.

  • “you’re ignorant but with a smug know-it-all attitude.”

    If you believe Jesus is not disgraceful you are the ignorant and smug one.

    The evidence claimed against Jesus shows a person who was very guilty and deserved crucifixion.
    That is, if he even existed.

  • Larry

    Not into evolution? So you are an ignorant fool on top of being a fanatic. Gotcha.

  • Larry


    Obviously you are uninterested in learning anything about atheists or what they believe. You have your sectarian belief and no interest in learning anything else.

  • CC,

    “I am not talking religion”
    If you said Jesus Christ, you are talking about religion.
    Jesus Christ without religion is like Ice cream without a freezer.

    “He is coming to take King David’s Throne”
    Prove it.

    “I boast only in Yashua Messiah not in myself.”
    Just Keep your magical Flushua out of my government and out of my laws.

    “Perhaps that’s why you can’t handle it.”
    I can handle you believing whatever you want to believe.
    But you be sure to keep your absolutely insane Jesus religion out of our laws!

  • “I have no religion”

    Great, well the IRS will be glad to know they can send you a tax bill then.

  • Jack

    Since his mother’s name is Veronica, momma’s boy uses her name.

    It’s his tribute to her for letting him live rent-free in the basement, where he can throw parties for his fellow middle-aged misfits from the group home.

  • Larry

    “Stalin was half Jewish and Jesuit educated …”

    OK, you are either ignorant as crap and getting your nonsense from some nutball preacher, or the most balls out purveyor of bullcrap outside of a fertilizer factory.

    There is no point in addressing you. That response was too stupid for words. I am not going to respond to a word you say with any degree of seriousness again.

  • “I am a follower of Yashua Messiah – period and I have no religion.”

    ‘follower’ of a ‘messiah’ is a religion.
    Believe ridiculous things if you want, just be sure to keep your religion out of the government.

  • Larry

    “The Lord’s Resistance Army is a terrorist cult, about as Christian as the Nazis.”

    Which means very much Christian. As the Nazis relied on Christian rhetoric for its anti-semitic rants and policies. They relied on collaboration and cooperation of churches for volunteers. Only one church in Germany/Occupied Europe opposed them.

  • Larry

    At this point I just skip Stephen’s posts and now I am doing it to Chucky as well. No point in engaging either of them.

  • philip

    Kaching! Ad Hominem Jack is back, firing off more insults with each and every post!

    Caught ya again, Ad Hominem Jackie.

  • philip

    you’ll just be babbling in a corner, with others avoiding you.

    Kaching! Ad Hominem Jack is back, firing off more insults with each and every post!

    Caught ya again, Ad Hominem Jack./b>

  • philip

    Barry “the Baptist” probably works for Samuel the salesman.

    Kaching! Ad Hominem Jack is back, firing off more insults with each and every post! Two in one this time.

    Caught ya again, Ad Hominem Jack.

  • Susan

    There is no Christian Jewish Celestial Torah except in your own mind. The priesthood is no longer needed because the sacrifices have been replaced with prayer, good deeds and Torah study. You’re certainly not a real prophet. I can’t imagine why you think I am lucky to be exposed to something that makes no sense and doesn’t exist. You should examine your own beliefs before you tell other people they are the dupes of propaganda.

  • Jack

    “Philip/”Veronica” et al…..How many names does momma’s little 50-year-old need to make him feel safe from an intellectually superior lass named Shawnie?

  • Jack

    He’s right, Larry. While obviously Christendom has its share of hypocrites, it is the wildest of stretches to call the Lord’s Resistance Army Christian just because it implies that this is so. Even based on sheer objective doctrinal beliefs, it’s not even close. They’re a rape-and-death cult that treats Kony like an infallible god for whom they will do literally anything. On principle, they worship him and war itself. Christians worship Jesus of Nazareth, not some demented homicidal warlord from sub-Sahara Africa.

    As for the Nazis, there is no question that, as evangelical writer David Rausch noted in his book, “Legacy of Hatred,” nearly 20 centuries of European Christendom’s anti-Semitism created fertile ground for the Holocaust. The continent’s replacement theology, in which it contradicted the New Testament’s crystal clear words by saying that God had disowned the Jews, partly explains why so little was done to save the Jews up to and during the Holocaust. The dark truth is that for tens of millions of Europeans, the will just wasn’t there.

    However, it would be flatly wrong to connect Nazi ideology itself to Christianity. Nazi ideology was a bizarre blend of Eastern mysticism, modern eugenics, Social Darwinism, pseudo-scientific racism, ancient Nordic mythology (misinterpreted), and hatred of Christianity as a religion of weaklings. On that last point, Hitler’s propaganda machine wasn’t dumb enough to shout it from the housetops, but instead tried to pass itself off as pro-Christian. Since by then, most of Germany’s churches had been deadened by higher criticism and other influences, few were robust or courageous enough to stand up. Even when the Nazis established “Reich” churches which ripped the Old Testament out of the canon, reinvented Jesus as a fierce Gentile Nordic superman, and preached salvation by race, not grace, it took awhile for Germany’s sleeping clergy to wake up and even defend the Apostles Creed, let alone the finer points of the faith.

  • You really are a know-nothing aren’t you Larry? Yet you come on this thread making out you’re so well informed. A most wretched condition. All is vanity – all is meaningless. ROTFL

    Let me know when you have found the words evolve – evolved or evolution in The Holy Scriptures and I’ll give you a peanut.

  • @ Larry You have nothing to offer in the way of learning, if you had I would listen. Until you have learnt that The Holy Scriptures are the foundation of all knowledge you will flounder in secular non-foundation nonsense.

  • Jack

    Larry, only a historical ignoramus isn’t aware of all of that. My sole point is that we are in a war, and when you’re in a war, you don’t have the president of your country equating the sins of your civilization’s past with the current crimes of the enemy. It’s up to our schools to teach our kids the unvarnished truth about our history, the bad as well as the good. But it is up to the president to measure his public utterances and to steel the nation’s resolve by stressing the rightness of our cause, not the wrongness of our past. Again, that’s what schools are supposed to be about……

  • It is not a dichotomy because YOU have no choice – you can only follow Satan which your comments are living proof of.

    They did have a choice and yet and the same time didn’t have a choice because He was offering them eternal life – so it was a no brainer.

    The rest of your comment is just meaningless 5 sense secular opinion – totally irrelevant.

  • Obama’a mother was Jewish – period.

  • Jack

    Charles, Jews are not and were not “Canaanites.”

  • @ Larry, No, all I am doing is revealing your ignorance on the subject and of course your closed mind with its narrow agenda.

  • Yashua Messiah (Jesus Christ) was not religious – period. So what are you going to do now or say now?

  • There is no LAW that says we must pay tax. If you’re paying tax then you’re volunteering to do so or giving your consent to them to thieve your money from you. I bet you didn’t know that did you?

  • Jack

    “Celestial Torah Christianity” is similar to what Voltaire once said of the grandiose term, Holy Roman Empire — neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.

    Likewise, Celestial Torah Christianity is neither celestial, nor Torah, nor Christianity.

    It’s Gnostic nonsense……or…..just spaced-out nonsense.

  • Jack

    Charles, you’re just another Anglo-Saxon or Celtic guy….which is more than fine. I think it was Abraham Lincoln who once said, ,”I don’t want to know who your grandfather was….I want to know who his grandson is.”

  • Jack

    Wrong Jack, Samuel. A second Jack posted that one, and his real name is probably Al Sharpton.

  • This thread has a 100% rating on know-nothing ignorance and at the moment Jack and Larry are carrying the torch. LOL

    @ Jack British Israel is not a cult. It asks no money from me and for a cult to be cult, money is ALWAYS the prime motivation so you really know nothing about British Israel.

    FYI The British Gaelic and Old English tongues are Hebrew in origin.

    Ireland was originally called Ebernia named after Eber, Abraham’s forefather.

    In the ancient Irish histories Tuatha De Danaan (The Tribe of Dan) first settled Ireland circa 1,500 BC.

    All the above are provable facts, if you do your research.

  • @ Max. If you keep repeating error you will eventually believe it to be true. LOL You should work for government as a propagandist – they would love to have you.

    Following Yashua Messiah is a not a religion – it’s just serving a King and being loyal to Him as King of kings – where is the religion in that?

    If you were to say I am a monarchist then I would agree, but definitely not a religionist.

  • The Holy Scriptures say otherwise – Genesis 38.

  • Ken

    Finally, after all the subterfuge and play acting, we get an atheist to admit that atheists have killed more human beings than any other group in history:

    Atheist Max February 8, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    “Atheism drove the Communists to slaughter”


    You got that exactly backwards.

    The Communists drove the atheists to slaughter people.

    – Atheist Max

    And those Atheists slaughtered, raped and mutilated tens of millions of other human beings. And those former communist strongholds in eastern Europe are still bastions of rape and slaughter today committed still, by atheists. But no one driving the atheists to do what they are doing now. iT just seems to be part and parcel of the worldview.

    Or as Dr. King once said: The content of their character.

  • Ken

    0 x 0 = atheism

    And of course the godless secular world is the place now of sex slavery, porn, abortion as birth control, overflowing with the mentally ill, drive-by shootings that go unsolved, selfishness as a plague, yada, yada, yada.

    Of course, when your self worth literally comes from, and scientifically means nothing, you get what you value.

    Nothing from nothing means nothing . . .

  • There is no Christian Jewish Celestial Torah except in your own mind. The priesthood is no longer needed because the sacrifices have been replaced with prayer, good deeds and Torah study. You’re certainly not a real prophet. I can’t imagine why you think I am lucky to be exposed to something that makes no sense and doesn’t exist. You should examine your own beliefs before you tell other people they are the dupes of propaganda.

    Sorry Susan, but there most certainly is a Celestial Torah and even the Jewish earthly torah says it is derived from the Celestial Torah. You can find out if you ever read about Jewish religion. I will ask you one question that proves my case which is that the earthly torah is a counterfeit and All Abrahamic religions including your Pauline Christian one, are basing their tenets on a false torah. Tell me where the word “Torah” comes from. Even rabbis don’t know this any more as they too, like you, have swallowed a line of baloney from priests of Judah about the derivation of the foundational religious concept of the Torah.

    I await yours or any rabbis answer to this question: Where does the word “Torah” originate?

    And what makes you think you’re qualified to judge whether or not I’m a prophet? Are you more qualified to judge than 500 Nazarean Christians who honored me at the Church of St. John for bringing them Christ’s Sword, the Sword of Peace and Sign of the Messiah as a Gift from God to the Holy Land at Easter in Nazareth, Israel in 2003? Are you more qualified than leaders of the Oglala Lakota Nation, Northern Cheyenne and Bear River tribal nations to judge me who have accepted my spiritual vision of Josephine into the White Buffalo Calf Woman prophesy tradition, something no other European-American Christian spiritual visionary has ever done before and that includes Joseph Smith? In short, you don’t know what your talking about and are just acting out of ignorance and blind faith in words of ancient men you haven’t the slightest idea who they were or what they were teaching. I mean why do you think Jews do not accept Jesus Christ of the Gospels as their Savior and yet you use their scriptures to back up your Savior beliefs written down for you by men you haven’t the slightest idea who they were or what they were really teaching. If you believe the Gospels have no esoteric meanings within them then I can’t help you, you’re lost in surface blind faith and that’s irrational belief. You might as well be worshiping Tinkerbell when Peter Pan tells the Lost Children to “believe” with all their hearts and minds that Tink will live and behold! She does! But it’s a Story, not real history and that’s why God’s going back to basic Sign Language in the heavens to make straight the path to God again that’s all twisted and warped with man-made agendas riding on Word of God mesmerization of blind faith believers who never research what they take on “faith” and thus fall victim to bamboozling priesthoods.

  • Susan

    Torah means teaching or instruction in Hebrew. All Hebrew words come from 3 or 2 letter roots. I don’t know the root of Torah because I don’t know enough Hebrew. I would have to ask, but you haven’t proved anything.

  • Billysees

    samuel johnston writes,

    “All he has to do to clear this whole mess up is appear on T.V. and explain.
    We are all waiting.”

    There’s a certain merit in that statement simply because the scriptures lack clarity.

  • I didn’t say you were Jewish – you’re the one claiming to be Jewish and if you are then you’re a Canaanite, not an Israelite. This would also mean that your mother would have to be Jewish, because Lewis is not a Jewish name it’s Welsh and the Welsh are The Tribe of Levi. Lewis is from Levis.

    The Welsh Druids were the descendants of The Levitical Priesthood. Liverpool, real name Levite-pool, is the real capital of Wales or the Vallis as the German’s (Assyrians) called them in their migrations across Europe from the lands of The Medes and Parthians north and south of the Caspian Sea where The Assyrians deposited the Ten Tribes after taking the Northern Kingdom of Israel captive circa 725 BC.

    You cannot be a Christian and invoke The Law (The Torah) of Moses. Christians live under Yashua Messiah’s Grace, not under The Law (The Torah) of Moses.

  • @ Stephen Lewis

    Archaeology???? LOL If you’re relying on that then your faith can only be in vain.

    Tell me, what does your mickey mouse Torah religion achieve for you?

  • Why would he need Jesus Christ – he’s saving himself by and through his vain and pathetic attempts at OBEDIENCE to The Law.

    He needs to meditate on this:

    James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep The Whole Law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

  • Jack

    Charles, get Walter Martin’s “The Kingdom of the Cults.” I think he has a chapter on British Israelitism……It’s just another form of replacement theology — another way of stealing the covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob away from the Jews…..or doing a “me, too, me, too!” dance.

    No need for such dances…..

  • Jack

    Atheist Max, your cockamamie criticisms of religion go far beyond your claiming you want to keep “religion out of government,” but nice try anyway.

  • You don’t have any schools. School’s are Bolshevik Marxist conditioning centres for brainwashing Orwellian style lies, perversions and distortions into young people’s minds. “Ignorance is strength.”

    Schools probably died out over 100 years ago.

  • Your comment addresses nothing.

    The Truth cannot be replaced. The so called ‘church fathers’ tried that in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries AD culminating in a real Cult – the money making Roman Cult.

    You need to do some REAL research.

  • It doesn’t matter, because there is no salvation in it.

  • Frank

    How so what?

  • Jack

    Judah became a father through Tamar, a Canaanite, but that simply means that the children were half Israelite and half Canaanite. So what? Boaz later married Ruth, a Moabite. Based on your logic, Jesus was a Moabite and a Canaanite as are all Jews today.

    And based on your logic, any time a Jew marries a Gentile of any nation, all of his or her subsequent descendants aren’t Jews anymore.


  • Frank

    I don’t have to be the judge. God already judges sexual immorality including homosexual behavior.

  • Jack

    But even more than that, Charles, he doesn’t believe in a real Law or Torah, either. It’s all mumbo-jumbo. It’s not celestial, it’s not Torah, and it’s not Christianity.

  • Jack

    Charles, he doesn’t believe in the actual Torah — he believes in a “celestial” Torah, which could mean just about anything — and hence nothing.

    And his views on archeology leapfrog over a century’s worth of archeological evidence favoring the veracity of the Hebrew Bible (and New Testament as well). He is relying on crackpots who smuggle into their archeological findings long-discredited old speculations of a century ago. These are not objective professionals, but biased quacks who refuse to let archeology speak for itself.

  • Jack

    Stephen, Jesus is Lord, but you are a Gnostic quack, not a prophet.

  • Garson Abuita

    No, she wasn’t — “period.” One of Obama’s father’s other wives was, in fact, Jewish. Ann Dunham was not Jewish.

  • Jack

    Charles, who is really saying in the end that Torah is about “salvation?” It’s really about an already-delivered people (from Egypt) being given God’s Law and blueprint for life. God saves and delivers, and then He teaches and commands through His Law.

  • Ken,

    “The content of their character….”

    Oh, really?

    And what about Christian Character?
    Or the “character” of the religious person?


    War on Aids – 20 Million Dead, Catholics obstructed condoms over a 20-year period through their clinics as women begged to be saved from their husbands (“Aids is bad but condoms are worse” – VATICAN)

    Spanish Inquisition – 200,000 dead – Catholic

    The Crusades – (1095 c.e. -1291 c.e.) 2,000,000 dead – (Catholic Fascists)
    Anti-Semitism – 5 millions dead over 2000 years excluding the Holocaust
(Christian fascists)
    Witch Hunts – 500,000 dead (Christian Fascists)
    Ireland – 600,000 dead (Catholic vs. Protestant)

    Rwanda 1994 (Catholic Fascists killed 1,000,000 with machetes)

    Taipeng Rebellion in China (1850 – 1864) 45 million dead (Christian Fascists)
    Boznia-Herzegovina (Catholic Fascists)

    The Ivory Coast civil wars (Catholic Fascists)

    Franco, the Spanish Civil War (Catholic Fascists)

    Cypriat War (Catholics)

    East Timor civil war

    Sri Lankan civil war

    Syria vs. Israel

    Kashmir civil war (Muslim fascists)
    Chechnya civil war


    Thirty Years War (Protestants VS. Catholics)

    WW1 – War of Christendom (37 Million dead)

    WW2 Nazi Anti-Semitism, “Gott Mit Uns” Axis powers – 50 Million dead

    Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
    Algeria, 1992-
    Baha’is, 1848-54
    Bosnia, 1992-95
    Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901

    Constantinian Empire & Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
    Croatia, 1991-92
    English Civil War, 1642-46
    Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
    India, 1992-2002
    India: Suttee & Thugs
    Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947

    Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-

    Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92

    Jews, 1348

    Jonestown, 1978

    Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
    Molucca Is., 1999-
    Mongolia, 1937-39

    Northern Ireland, 1974-98

    Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22

    St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572

    Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE

    Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38

    Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91

    Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834
    Tudor England

    Vietnam, 1800s

    Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
    Xhosa, 1857

    Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE

    Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-

    Al Qaeda, 1993-

    Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609

    Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s

    700,000,000 people dead because of religion.

    The Southern Baptist Church, FUNDED BY and founded by Southern Plantation Owners in 1837 argued for the HOLY SANCTITY OF SLAVERY based solely on the Bible. The Southern Baptist Church in its religious argument in favor of Slavery was a strong influence in turning the Southern argument for Secession into a religious matter.
    Once the ‘Divine’ is on your side, you will do any amount of evil.
    Yet God doesn’t appear to take a side in these battles.



    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion” – US CONSTITUTION

    You don’t know religion when you see it.

    And you don’t understand how lucky you are
    to live in a country which outlaws its ENFORCEMENT!

    Show me where non-believers like Voltaire, Carl Sagan, Mark Twain or Isaac Asimov ever burned a witch!

    For Peace, Culture and The Separation of Church and State

  • Matt Westbrook

    I’m sorry. You are suggesting that the Rwandan genocide was a war of religion? Is this a joke? “Despicable, revolting, unthinking, egotistical garbage,” are the words that come to mind for me as well right now.

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    Thanks, Jack!! Finally,somebody who knows what they’re talking about!!!

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    Stephen Lewis,are you:(1)-On drugs, (2)-drunk, (3)-insane,(4)-ALL OF THE ABOVE???

  • Ken,




    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion….” – US CONSTITUTION

    You don’t know religion when you see it.

    And you don’t appreciate how lucky you are
    to live in a country which outlaws

    Religion must be voluntarily abandoned over time
    and replaced with democracy, science and culture

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    Wow,Jack–You took the words right out of my mouth!! You are ON FIRE today,my friend -Just what this site needs!!!

  • @Charles:

    Live with whatever fantasy you like – I cannot care less.

    Religion is “Following the orders of a god”
    That is what you claim you are doing. That is also what Al Queda is doing – so that is what sort of logic you are using.

    You have chosen to follow the orders of a god who committed suicide. I have every right to call that as disgusting, horrific, revolting and despicable as any other religion.

    You claim a god exists and that you must follow what that god commands you to do. RIDICULOUS AND SAD!

    Good luck with your RELIGION!

  • samuel Johnston

    Yes, “God saves and delivers”, but is he never to be blamed for the mess he created? Had he done a proper job in the first place, he would not need to intervene.
    Mythology is interesting and informative, but only if it is understood as art.

  • CC,

    “Yashua Messiah (Jesus Christ) was not religious..”

    Now you have gone off the deep end.
    1. Jesus commanded that you ‘Love God’
    2. He commanded that you show this by following his orders.
    3. He had many commands of his own which you must follow or go to Hell.

    Now that you have commented that Taxes are ‘optional’ and not an important obligation of every US citizen,
    I can dismiss your comments and put you in the same category of
    Stephen Lewis, Frank, Jack, Ken, Fran and Karla.

    Thanks for saving me from needless debates.

  • Laurence Charles Ringo

    Dude,there is something seriously, SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH YOU . SERIOUSLY.

  • “Nothing from nothing means nothing”

    Then where did your gods come from?

  • Garson Abuita

    Stephen, I and certainly any rabbi can tell you that the word Torah comes from the Hebrew word for teaching. But I’m sure you’ll tell us that’s not true and give some bizarre explanation like Israel is a combination of Isis, Ra and El. The Torah gives a great method of determining a prophet’s credibility. Just examine his claims. The Hebrew word is Yisrael, not Israel. FAIL. You claim, like a garden variety Nazi, that Ashkenazim aren’t really Jewish, then tell us that you’re Jewish through your Ashkenazi mother. FAIL.
    I’ve held off on dealing with you because of your sheer ridiculousness, the same way I deal with crazy people on the subway. Maybe that’s why there’s “zero interest” in your “prophecy.” Bottom line: we’ve seen throughout history people and institutions like you, Charles Crosby and everyone else in history who has wanted to deny the Jewish people their beliefs, peoplehood and homeland. We were here before you, we are here now, and we will be here after you.


    Because if one does not know if God exists
    one should admit they do not believe it.


    We do not need to fear Christians or Muslims or Atheists.
    We need to fear those who would ENFORCE their religious claims on others.

    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion” – US Constitution

    America is still the only country on earth
    with a law FORBIDDING ENFORCEMENT of religious claims.

    Stop dissing the US Constitution. You owe your freedom to it!

    For Peace, Culture and The Separation of Church and State

  • @Charles:

    You don’t know what you are talking about. Like Larry said.

    Atheism means “I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD”
    That is all it means.

    Show me your evidence for a God and I’ll consider it.
    You have shown nothing.

    For instance:
    why is YOUR god the right one? Why not Allah?
    Where is your god? Why not Zues?
    Why not Aphrodite?
    Why don’t you believe in 20 gods?
    Or 50 gods?
    Or the Hindu Gods?

    Meanwhile you show no evidenced of your God at all.
    You have no more evidence than any of the other claims about gods!

    The default position is NO BELIEF.
    If you have nothing, you are just pretending.

  • Bhanks

    Robin and Jack, I think you completely missed the point of John Richter’s comments about the LRA. Despite what the LRA says about their beliefs/doctorines, YOU disagree that what they represent is true Christianity, and is instead a warped, evil version of a faith system that you believe is holy and good. That’s how a majority of Muslims (approximately 85%, based on above mentioned statistics), feel about Islamist terrorism — that it is NOT their true religion.

  • Mainstream Christians (fakes) who invoke The Ten Commandments (The Torah) say it’s about salvation. So you’re wrong!

    The Law brings us to Yashua Messiah.

    The Law condemns.

    The Law is the school master with a bat.

    The Law is exacting with a penalty that MUST be paid.

    The Law is the bit and bridle in our mouths.

    No man is free under The Law – a man is only free under His Grace.

  • Re: “Religion is the cause of all extremism???”

    Neither Michaelson nor Obama said anything even remotely like that, but please, by all means, if it makes you feel better to think they did, go right ahead and say so. You’d be wrong, of course, but that can hardly be helped, I guess.

    Re: “How about politics and politicians???”

    How about them? I wasn’t aware that the misdeeds of politicians, in the names of their own causes, made it acceptable for Christians to commit atrocities in the name of their Jesus. Maybe that’s somewhere in scripture; if so, you’ll have to point it out to me, because I don’t know where it is. Until then, this sounds like a “two wrongs make a right” objection, which is fallacious. Here, again, you can stand on a fallacy if it makes you feel better to do so, but you’re still relying on a fallacy.

  • @Shawnie:

    “Of course it is atheism.”

    You know what your freakin’ problem is?
    You keep pretending you don’t know the difference between
    ENFORCEMENT OF A RELIGIOUS CLAIM BY THE STATE (Stalinist Atheism, Maoism, Islamism).

    And the
    LACK OF A RELIGIOUS CLAIM! (Agnostic Atheism)

    I absolutely reject the idea that you are too stupid for this!
    So why the hell are you acting this way every freakin’ day?

    And you keep implying that Agnostic Atheism automatically leads to Enforcement of Atheism! Ridiculous. On what grounds?

    There is no AGNOSTIC Dogma which says “the absence of belief must lead to enforcement of non-belief”!

    Stalin was about promoting Stalin so he killed off other gods by claiming “GOD DOES NOT EXIST”. There is nothing Agnostic about that! It was ENFORCEMENT OF A CLAIM!

    NOW Get off this nonsense or provide evidence for you claim that Agnostic Atheism leads to murder – I mean seriously – what a crock!!

  • Re: “But the Crusades were a very belated war of liberation finally setting out to deliver brother and sister Middle Eastern Christians from the Islamic yoke.”

    The Crusaders didn’t really do much to deliver anyone from “the Islamic yoke.” They didn’t really try to shore up the Byzantine Empire (which, at the time, was the chief defender of eastern Christendom). The First Crusaders won back some of Byzantium’s western Anatolian territory, it’s true, but then they made a beeline for the Holy Land and left Byzantium behind. Once in the Levant, they refused to restore lost Byzantine territory, and they failed to help the Byzantines refortify.

    Oh, and once there, they ousted the local Orthodox hierarchs in favor of their own Latin hierarchy. They seized the very-Christian state of Edessa. A century after the First Crusade, the Fourth attempted to destroy Byzantium outright … and they very nearly succeeded, leaving it a shell of its former self.

    The historical record is clear: The Crusaders were NOT champions, protectors, defenders, or liberators of eastern Christians. They were (largely) Frenchmen, far from home, embedding themselves in a place they had no rational reason to be. Had they actually wished to help eastern Christendom, they’d have signed on with the Byzantines and participated in their wars with Muslims, which by then had been going on for centuries, and which continued in spite of the presence of the Crusaders.

  • CC:

    “It is not a dichotomy because YOU have no choice – you can only follow Satan which your comments are living proof of.”

    There is no other choice to the religious brain.

    But there are infinite choices to those of us who know better and who read lots of books.

  • Re: “First, while the Crusades were fought in part to wrest Jerusalem away from the Muslims, the broader historical context was an aggressive Islam which from the 7th century until long after the Reformation, nearly a thousand years later, sought to conquer Europe. From the Battle of Tours, all the way to the defeat of the Muslims at the gates of Vienna in the 17th century, European Christendom was fighting a long war, mostly of defense against literal Muslim armies.”

    I’m sure you’re aware the Battle of Tours took place in the 730s … well over 3 centuries before the Crusades began? I’m sure you’re aware that, after Tours, the Muslims were hemmed in within Spain, their territory had been eroded by the Reconquista, and they were never a threat to the French (who made up the majority of Crusaders)?

    I’m likewise sure you’re aware that the Muslims who besieged Vienna had come from the east, the Ottoman Empire specifically, a state which had been built upon the conquest and ruin of the (Christian) Byzantine Empire? I’m sure you’re aware the Ottomans had been able to conquer Byzantium at least partly because the Fourth Crusade had chopped the Empire up, rendering it less able to defend itself from the Muslim menace (which continued to plague Byzantium in spite of the Crusaders’ presence)?

    Or, perhaps, you don’t actually know those things? Sure looks that way to me.

  • @Matt,

    “You are suggesting that the Rwandan genocide was a war of religion?”

    No. I’m insisting.
    Look it up yourself.

    Father Anatole Serromba: “We must kill them all, Christ be praised.”

  • samuel Johnston

    re: Wrong Jack, Samuel.
    My apologies Jack. I missed the small case j.

  • Father Athanase Seromba
    And countless other Catholics drew up machetes and found no problem in slaughtering almost a million of their fellow countrymen
    in 1993-94.

    “Execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)


    Religious claims are the world’s needless nightmare.

    For Peace, Science, Culture and The Separation of Church and State

  • “cockamamie criticisms of religion”


    “Execute them in front of me” – Jesus (Luke 19:27)

    “Zombies walked to show support for Jesus” – (Matthew 27:52)

    Nothing ridiculous or harmful in any of that.

  • @ Max

    Oh yes I know what I am talking about and it’s obvious you don’t. LOL

    You said: “Atheism means “I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD”
    That is all it means.”

    To not believe in God must mean you believe that there is no God for if God were to show Himself in a any way it then could not be denied He exists, so you would then have to acknowledge and then believe.

  • Jack

    Samuel, you atheists are far too prosaic. I was speaking in terms of textual or literary analysis, not doctrinal affirmation or rejection, of the religious system of Torah.

    Yes, I happen to affirm the Bible and hence the Torah, as coming from God, but that was not my intended tone or point here.

  • Jack

    No they don’t, Charles. Every person I have ever met who claimed to be Christian affirmed that salvation is by the grace and mercy of God and not obedience to the law. Obedience to the law is the fruit of salvation. A person is grateful to God and hence does His revealed will out of gratitude and with a renewed heart and mind. In reality, of course, we still struggle plenty, but that is the basic principle behind the life of a believer.

    Grace and the law are not opposed.

  • Jack

    Max, how can atheistic Communists (Pol Pot, Mao) etc. be deemed religious when their entire ideology is anti-religious? You are redefining words so broadly, you’re draining them of meaning.

    You might as well be speaking gibberish.

  • Jack

    Take bits and pieces of radical-left politically correct sentiments, received as gospel truth from Marxist-like forebears, sprinkle in lots of self-hatred, and add a heaping dose of life-denying Gnosticism, and you get Stephen Lewis and his posts.

  • You have no choices, you are lost and fallen residing beneath the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil.

    You can therefore ‘decide’ to do good or you can ‘decide’ to do evil but you’re still lost and fallen and doomed to die whether you do good or evil.

  • Wrong! Dunham’s father was an Irish Jew.

    Obama lives like a Jew.

  • Jack

    Right about Stephen and Charles, but the survival of the Jewish people is no accident of fate. It is through the hand of God. That very survival is living, breathing proof that the God of the Jews is real, as is the divine origin of the words of Torah and the rest of the Bible. It is consistent with the whole story being true…..a story that the Jews did not make up, but one that actually happened as recorded. Even if every Jew on the planet rejected the story wholesale, and fled into the arms of atheism, thereby deeming their founding ancestors either liars or lunatics, that would not make the story any less true.

    He who keeps Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps.

  • Jack

    That’s standard stuff, but I fail to see your point. Perhaps you’d wish to spell it out for us, since I am not a mind-reader. If it’s to deny the continued threat posed by Muslim forces from the seventh through at least the 17th century, you might as well deny that two and two make four.

  • You have a very strange way of thinking – almost perverted.

    You said: – “If you said Jesus Christ, you are talking about religion.”

    How do you make this connection? Have you actually read the gospels – show me the name of the religion He started or that Peter or Paul started – come on – you have a lot to say for yourself name me the religion in The New Testament.

    You said to prove that He is coming to take King David’s throne. How can I prove something that has not yet occured? It is prophesied, so it will happen, just as many other prophecies have already been fulfilled i.e. The Persian Empire – The Greek Empire and The Roman Empire and not forgetting The British Empire.

    God promised King David that his throne would never want for a man or woman to sit upon his throne until Yashua Messiah come and that prophecy too has been fulfilled.

    The Common Law is based upon the Commandments so God is already in your Law. LOL As I said, you can’t handle it.

  • samuel Johnston

    I admit that I sort of doze off when folks get so involved discussing the fine points of their imaginary world. William of Occam, presumably using his famous razor, opined that God could do anything but contradict himself.
    I choose him as my prosaic knight to do battle with Thomas, Luther, and Calvin.

  • I don’t follow orders, I live under His Grace – a free man with free will and I follow willingly and voluntarily – no Law and no obedience.

  • It is not wise to call people silly who know more than you do.

    Tamar was NOT a Canaanite, she came from Abraham’s family (see the Book of Jasher) – The Adullamite’s (Canaanite’s) daughter Bathshuah was the Canaanite who bore Judah three sons Er, Onan (both killed by the Lord) and Shelah and it’s from Shelah that The Canaanite Jews are descended.

    Ruth only came from Moab, she was not a Moabitess racially.

    Yahsua Messiah was a Royal Judahite via Pharez through Tamar not a Jew.

  • OK what we call a whack job on Before It’s News. LOL

  • Yes they do – they all invoke the Ten Commandments as still binding. Very few live totally under His Grace – I know I have rubbed shoulders with ’em for too long in the past.

    You then confirm it by saying “Grace and the law are not opposed.”
    when they are totally opposed. When Grace came in the Law was out of a job – Period.

  • I have His Grace not Moses Law

  • There are no commands under His Grace. Those under His Grace follow willingly and voluntarily.

  • CC,

    Which of the 10 Commandments have you decided no longer apply?

    How did you decide that god gave you his fancy Grace?
    What an ego!

    Just don’t call it humility or piety and I’m fine with it.

  • Jack

    This is a bit complex.

    I accept the view of most Muslims that radical Islamism is a serious warping of Islam. But I also accept the view of Islamic reformers that we’re not helping their cause by saying that radical Islamism has no relationship whatsoever to mainstream Islam.

    In other words, radical Islamism is a warping of Islam, but is not wholly foreign to Islam. And in order to defeat radical Islamism, Islamic reformers tell us that we need to embrace both tracks — calling it a warping of Islam while also calling for reform within Islam.

    But as for the Lord’s Resistance Army, it is not like the Crusades or the Inquisition or some of the other horrors that happened deep within Christendom. These horrors are much like radical Islamism, in that on the one hand they were a warping of true Christianity yet on the other hand were the responsibility of Christianity and were an indicator of how badly Christianity needed reform. In the case of the LRA, it is not like the Crusades or Inquisition. Unlike those fiascos, the LRA has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity or even Christendom. The Church bore responsibility for the Crusades and Inquisition, but the Church bears no conceivable responsibility of any kind for the LRA…anymore than it would bear responsibility if I woke up tomorrow and formed an organization dedicated to worshipping me as a god and all the rest.

  • You’re the man with the ego, a carnal ego – the worst kind.

    Re the Ten Commandments all of ’em and you’re out of your depth Max.

    Time you returned to your blue pill Matrix secular fiction world. LOL

  • Jack

    Charles, I’m afraid to ask, but what do you mean that “Obama lives like a Jew?”

    Before answering, you ought to bandage your knuckles — the skin is practically off from dragging them along the ground for so long.

  • @Charles Crosby,

    “There are no commands….Those under His Grace follow willingly and voluntarily.”

    So instead of being commanded – you are ONE WITH GOD?
    Whatever comes into your mind is blessed as God’s desire?
    Whatever you do is blessed as God’s action?

    What a self-centered, self-beknighted, dangerous philosophy.

    “I know God and God knows me” – Osama Bin Laden

    What frightening, egotistical BS you got there!

  • Jack


    The proof that Christianity is true is not that atheists are a bunch of Caligulan monsters (obviously they are not), but that when you look at the surrounding historical facts on the ground, the world has spent 20 centuries trying to come up with a better explanation for them and has failed utterly.

    Maybe in another 20 centuries, it will, but don’t bet on it. (for one thing, the world as we know it may not have 20 more centuries, but that’s another matter….)

  • @CC,

    “I have His Grace not Moses Law”
    “The 10 Commandments – all of em!”

    What the hell???




  • Jack

    Charles, how can “Bolshevik Marxism” be “Jewish” if it rejects by its very definition both nationhood and religion in every form? In so doing, it knocks out both Zionism (nationhood) and Judaism (religion).

    You are making zero sense.

  • Jack

    The literal crux of the matter is that no God means no soul, which means no objective difference in kind between humanity and other forms of life, which means it is no more wrong to enslave a person than an ox or a horse…..and down we go from there.

    The philosophical basis for humanism itself collapses. That’s not to say that the psychology collapses with it. That can take a few generations. But if there are no cogent philosophical arguments for a thing, eventually it runs on fumes before collapsing.

    Such is the testimony of millions who came out of decades of Soviet communism. They said the atheist materialism eroded and deadened nearly everything after a while.

  • Jack

    Thanks Laurence.

  • Jack

    Atheist Max, I have yet to see you refute anyone or anything convincingly, partly because you’re a propagandist and propagandists don’t know how to engage in anything besides monotonous repetition, and partly because you’re wrong on virtually everything and hence are saddled with the impossible task of defending the indefensible.

  • JACK,,

    “Max, how can atheistic Communists (Pol Pot, Mao) etc. be deemed religious when their entire ideology is anti-religious?”

    Religion is the act of enforcing a dogma. THAT IS WHAT IT IS.
    It is the command to enforce absolutist claims at the direction of an Authority.

    Enforced Islam massacres Christians under the dogmatic absolutist claim that Allah is the only God and all other gods are false AND death to those who disagree.
    That is religion.

    Religion always destroys OTHER RELIGIONS and replaces them with a new, absolutist dogma.

    “Communism is perfect and the state shall be the Authority” – Stalin
    “Agrarianism is perfect and the State shall be the authority” – Pol Pot

    It does no good to deny these are religions. They contain all the elements of religion:

    1. Dogmatic Certitude of something which is said to be absolutely true.
    2. Authority with absolute control to enforce its Dogma.
    3. Questioning the authority results in execution.

    Simple, agnostic Atheism has NO dogma.
    It is the safest approach to religion and as long as one questions authority, it leads to the safest societies.

    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion…” – US Constitution

    Is one of the most brilliant things ever written
    by a government to keep its people free!

    “RELIGION” is much more than just a belief in a god! It is the claim of something being absolutely true – so true that it must be enforced!

    “All Dictatorships are fundamentally Theocracies” – George Orwell

  • Jack

    Laurence, he’s a Gnostic….that explains most of the Dali-like surrealism coming from his posts.

  • Jack

    That’s okay, Samuel…..no problem.

  • Jack

    Charles, I have done my homework, lad. Count on it.

  • Jack

    Don’t mind Atheist Max — he’s distracted, singing the Red anthem….

    “All you prisoners of starvation…..”

    ….while denying the 150 million dead people, thanks to the 20th century triumph of the one and only political ideology in history that holds atheism at the center of its definition and identity.

  • Jack,

    Think about it this way:

    “Enforced Islam massacres Christians under the claim that Allah is the only true God.”

    Does it make you feel better that this is supposedly a ‘religious’ dictatorship instead of a secular one?

    If Allah isn’t real at all – but just an illusion of Muslims – what does that make the Caliphate? Is the Caliphate religious if the God is nonexistent?

    Would you NOT AGREE that an Islamic Caliphate is just a secular state since there is no Allah?

    Why do you call Stalinism secular when the EXACT SAME thing is true of the Islamic Caliphate?

    Stalin had no God.
    Neither does ISLAM!

    Religion always destroys OTHER RELIGIONS and replaces them with a new, absolutist dogma.

    THAT is why Religion and Stalin and Pol Pot and Islam are all the same thing.

    Empty claims, unsupported by evidence and completely dictatorial.

    The world is in grave danger if we don’t come to our senses and back away from religion by waking up from all of this nonsense.

  • Jack

    Than quit lying by saying that all you’re concerned about is the union of religion and state, which in America is like worrying about the next dinosaur attack.

  • “I don’t follow orders, I live under His Grace – a free man with free will and I follow willingly and voluntarily – no Law and no obedience.”

    What?!!? Bwahahahahaha!
    Such a joke!

    I’m the one who doesn’t follow orders, who lives as a free man with free will – no Law and no obedience.

    “Grace”makes you a puppet! LOL!!

  • Jack

    I was writing in a hurry and neglected to mention that the initial children Judah fathered with his wife died before producing the next generation, which left things up to his union with Tamar…..

    The point still stands. You can’t argue that Jews aren’t Jews just because some of them have mated with Gentiles across the centuries and millennia. That’s true of any group.

  • Jack

    Well, here we go again…..every now and then, I actually read a Max post to see what new lies and inaccuracies come forth.

    Here’s a new one — or should I say, one I didn’t notice until now:

    “Spanish Inquisition — 200,000 dead.”

    Nice try, liar, but you’re off by a mere 194,000 to 197,000.

    I’d rely on the promises of used-car salesmen in junk yards with pit bulls before relying on the accuracy of anything that Atheist Max posts.

  • Jack

    Max, cut the flim flam. We’ve been through this a thousand times before….Religion means belief in some force or thing or person that is more than just the perception of the material world itself. It isn’t just any belief at all. Some beliefs are religious, others are not.

    A belief whose core is atheistic is by definition a non-religious belief.

    Grow up.

  • Jack

    Funny you should mention Occam’s Razor, Samuel. One of the many reasons I believe the Gospel is true is Occam’s Razor. The simplest and most straightforward explanation for what I read in them was that a bunch of Galilean fishermen and friends saw and experienced something positively extraordinary, wrote about it or told it to others who did likewise, and calmly submitted to their own deaths rather than renounce their testimony and live.

    I’ve tried every other possible explanation on for size, and not one of them fits. Every one of them requires me to believe in nonsensical Da Vinci Code-like conspiracy theories fit for a 9/11 truther or Holocaust denier….This one lied to this one who deceived that one who said this to that one and that to this one a hundred years later, while making it seem that he was this when he was that…..

    I don’t believe in conspiracy theories and thus I believe the Gospel….

  • Jack,

    “Religion means belief in some force or thing or person that is more than just the perception of the material world itself.”


    RELIGION – The belief in OR worship of a superhuman controlling Authority; MAY or may not include a God.

    Stalin fits the description perfectly. Stalin publicly seized the position of ‘Czar’ which is a well-known historically SUPERHUMAN title in Russian history. Just as Ceasar was historically a religious title in the Roman Empire.

    “It isn’t just any belief at all. Some beliefs are religious, others are not.”


    “A belief whose core is atheistic is by definition a non-religious belief.”
    Endless nonsense from you!
    An ATHEIST CLAIM of religious certainty such as “There is no god” is a religious CLAIM – A RELIGIOUS BELIEF!

    1. You are implying that Atheism automatically leads to Stalinism.
    2. You are implying that the statement “There is no god” is not a religious claim!

    Both of your ridiculous statements of yours been proven completely false.

  • Jack:

    Bowling is not genocide.
    But insisting that everyone else go bowling or be shot
    is Genocide!

    Insisting the Bowling is an absolute necessity for life according to unaccountable authority – is a religion.

    You and Shawnie fail to understand the words “I don’t know”
    is not a Dogma! Just as bowling is not a dogma.

    “Everyone must go bowling or they will be shot”
    Is a Dogma.

    Enforcement of a dogmatic claim is what you keep endorsing every time you say JESUS.
    Yet you claim to fear Dogmatic claims.

    Your position is incoherent nonsense.

  • Jack,

    “the next dinosaur attack.”

    Is that what you call the Hobby Lobby Christian Sharia Law which forbids women employees to do what they want with their own earnings !?

    You Evangelicals say parents have the right to forbid vaccines to their children – but no rights for women OVER THEIR OWN BODIES!

    I’ll celebrate the day I see Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee get laughed out of the Republican Party instead of worshipped for their public Jesus lust! Disgusting.

    Damnable mix of Politics and Religion is a cancer to our country!

  • Jack

    If you mean that our schools are politically correct on the extreme, you’re right, but that makes my point rather well. The country doesn’t need its president giving us a history lesson about all the evils of western civilization. Public schools have done the job only too well and then some.

  • Alex

    Obama is a Sunni Muslim who deeply hates the US. He hates and hates. Deeply. “Those white protestant Americans””. Is not his fault….!? Grew up attending Islamic school, indoctrinated by the Quran. Then Hawaii. Surrounded by radicals, communists and racists. His mom? Promiscuous and lost in life. The guy had no American roots or values not even when 12,14 years old. His racist view was already in full growth. Put decades attending a church of a wacko racist, hateful “pastor” …Sunday after Sunday …what can we expect this wacko president say?? Later when he gets in Harvard (who knows how – nobody ever lay eyes on his records. Strange) and who are his buds? Socialists, Marxists people who deeply hates the united stares and Christianity. No a surprise the man show a such twisted view of the world and complete ignorance of history. I’m glad we KIcked Jose Muslim tales out of Christian kingdoms!!! Muslims as typical of them invaded and enslave Christians and Jews . The so called “muslim tolerance ” during the caliphate is laughable!! Second citiZens, slaves etc he inquisiton kill less people than 9/11 attacks. Of course was awful but it was mere politics of Catholicism and kings. no biblical doctrine ever supported anything like that. Differently than the Quran which commands u to kill infidels ! In several verses. To obey our masters is a suggestion for personal conduct once there is no other option. That is what the New Testament say. Only Christian haters throw out here ithe verse is “supporting slavery” get a grip! Islam is evil and obama ? We know who he is! An indoctrinated Muslim Marxist . A wacko who hates this country. The Bible stands alone as inerrant and perfect. No matter how any times people take verses out of context cut and paste for their own wicked satisfaction. 2 more years of this poor obama and his darkness. What will be his master plan to bring down the US?

  • Jack

    Wrong, Larry. You don’t know what you’re talking about regarding the history of religious freedom. While most professing Christians and non-Christians throughout history cared not a whit about religious freedom, when it did arise, religious freedom as we know it today sprung from unmistakably Christian, and specifically evangelical Christian, roots.

    And yes, there’s plenty within the teachings of Christianity that leads to religious freedom if followed logically. For one thing, the doctrine of salvation through faith absolutely requires religious freedom, for without it, faith is coerced, and coerced faith is no faith at all and hence ineffectual for salvific purposes. In other words, the Gospel itself requires an atmosphere of religious freedom to produce genuine faith conviction needed for salvation to take place.

    You hard lefties have a curiously French rather than American view of the relation between religion and society, and especially religion and democracy. And speaking of the French, you should read Tocqueville’s Democracy in America, where he notes the difference between his native France and America on such issues. Whereas religion and freedom were at odds in France with the religious people anti-freedom and the pro-freedom people anti-religion, Tocqueville marveled how in America, religion was the firm friend of democracy and vice versa.

    So welcome to America, Larry. You’ve probably been here for awhile. You’d probably be happier if you became more acculturated and adjusted your thinking accordingly.

  • Jack

    Both Christians and non-Christians have practiced slavery, but the difference is that those who stopped slavery were largely Christians.

    As for atheists, I suppose they sternly lectured the newly freed slaves not to adopt the religion of their liberators. I’m picturing Max’s ancestors wagging their gnarled fingers at the freed men and women.

  • Jack

    To Traci,

    Well, duh…..

    Tell us something new….

  • Jack

    Larry, I think you’re confusing “religion” with human nature.

    The idea that religion is the cause of all bad things, from hangings to hang nails, is an old atheist superstition, similar to a belief in werewolves, tooth fairies, and beneficent government.

    Human nature works its less-than-wondrous ways through theism, atheism, and everything in between.

    Welcome to the real world.

  • Jack

    How was Jesus “extremist?” I suppose it would help for you to tell us what that word means to you before using it.

  • Jack

    Thanks Laurence. My “favorite” comment was when one poster said the Inquisition was just “wonderful.”

    Granted, atheists like Max wildly exaggerate (surprise, surprise) the deaths — saying it was a quarter million rather than a few thousand — but it still was no garden party, unless by garden party, we mean Nero-style.

  • Jack

    Ashby, evolution or no evolution, there is nothing “natural” about war.

  • Jack

    No he isn’t, Max. It is perfectly acceptable to say that there is a conscious Being without beginning or end.

    The alternative is to believe that the entire universe just came into being all by its lonesome.

    Just like my watch or this computer or space shuttles or MRIs….

    It happens all the time! (NOT)

  • Jack

    Larry, it is a belief system….one that says that matter and energy comprise the whole of reality. It’s also known as naturalism.

    And….it is self-refuting.

  • Jack

    Not content with littering his myriads of posts with myriads of factual errors, Atheist Max thinks he can graffiti the character of Jesus, turning him from an altogether peaceful soul into a wild-eyed, frothing, foaming-at-the-mouth caricature of an atheist taking over a country and making it communist.

  • Jack,

    I don’t lie!
    You should look into sources before
    You declare such things.

    And, Todd, you are not kidding me.

    150,000 -250,000 people were slaughtered depending on who you include as a direct or indirect victim.

    Why would Christianity have a body count anyway?
    And why is the number of dead so much more important to you than the fact that slaughter is a necessary component of your sick religion?

    Why on earth would I lie about PUBLICLY AVAILABLE INFORMATION???


  • samuel Johnston

    I was a Deist long before I heard the term. It made no sense to me that a perfect, all powerful creator God, would repent of his creation (which is just another way of saying he contradicts himself). So, the Christ myth of a redeemer is not credible. Ditto all other acts of interference with the original order of creation.

  • Jack,

    “no God means no soul..and down we go from there.”

    There probably is no God. And it is wonderful thing:

    “I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy.” – Yahweh (JER 13:14)

    “Now go and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.” – Yahweh (1 Samuel 15:3)

  • Jack,

    “which means it is no more wrong to enslave a person than an ox or a horse”



    “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or any of these things which belong to your neighbor.” – YAHWEH (Deuteronomy 5:21)

    What a revolting theory! This garbage must be abandoned.

  • Jack,

    “The philosophical basis for humanism itself collapses..”

    It sure does. Under the weight of your primitive cave man god:


    “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Yahweh, (Exodus 21:7)

    Humanism sure can’t hold a candle to that lovely behavior.

    Why do you favor selling little girls for rape, Jack?

  • Jack,

    “no objective difference in kind between humanity and other forms of life”


    “My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out.” – Yaweh, (Exodus 23:23)

    Jack, someone needs to teach you that Genocide is NOT a good idea.
    I know you have rejected humanism but perhaps you might consider your invisible friend may be full of crap on this issue?

  • Jack,

    “no God means no soul…”

    Not sure about that. Especially when you consider what your God commands of you:

    “Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.” (Jeremiah 48:10)

    Jack, how much hate must you carry with you every day that you defend this sort of indiscriminate murder???

  • Jack,

    “humanism itself collapses..”



    “You shall purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you…also the children..You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this…” – Yahweh (Leviticus 25:44-46)

    Jack, do you own slaves? Where are they, in your basement?

  • Shawnie:

    “Civil Atheists”

    Let’s talk about the civility of your very close and dearest friend:


    “Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.” (1 Peter 2:18)

    Ridiculous garbage so primitive that the people who wrote this drivel didn’t know where the sun went at night!

    Religion is a poison which needs to be abandoned – FAST!


    Your dear friend called – he has some instructions for how to treat women:

    “the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in self-disgust.” (Ezekiel 23:17)

    Shouldn’t the men be blamed FOR RAPE?

    If I were you, I would NOT hang out with this friend of yours!

  • Charles,

    The world is a mess. And you think this is the solution?


    “When you go out to war…and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand… if you see a comely woman among the enslaved and become so enamored of her….you may take her home….you may have relations with her.” – YAHWEH (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

    I’m talking about your very best friend – GOD!
    This is the way he wants you to behave.

  • It’s no good Max, you’re not equipped to read and understand what is written The Holy Scriptures – you’re of the five senses only – a carnal minded man devoid of the Spiritual dimension – like a walking corpse.

    Yes you will interpret it as ego but all you are doing is identifying His authority through me. I am His messenger and speak with His authority and the only way you can avoid that authority is to cease responding to my comments.

  • There is definitely something wrong with your thinking processes:

    You asked: Which of the 10 Commandments have you decided no longer apply?

    I said all of them.

    Then you said: What the hell??? THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE MOSES’ LAW!

    What has this got to do with what I said? I said I am under Yashua Messiah’s Grace and not under The Law.

    Here again we see your inability to understand – you really should give up and go play tiddly winks.

  • I am not an institution, I am a messenger of Yashua Messiah here to tell you that The Jews are Canaanites – The Devil’s Seed from The Garden – The Tares – The Synagogue of Satan and will be burnt at the soon coming harvest when Yashua Messiah separates you from His wheat – True Israelites.

  • I am not arguing I am telling you, and you have no point – the population of the world at that time was very small being only a few hundred years after The Flood and each of Jacob’s/Israel’s twelve sons were Patriarchs who sired twelve clans/tribes of people which grew to become twelve individual nations of people and these people were NOT Jews.

    Judah sired two clans – Judahites through Tamar and Canaanite Jews through Bathshuah.

    Here are The Twelve Tribes of Israel today:

    Ephraim = England and Her Commonwealth – Australia, Canada, NZ and S Africa (Now stolen as with India).

    Manasseh = Anglo-Saxon USA

    Simeon = Scotland and Scottish descendants everywhere.

    Levi = Wales, Cornwall and The Walloons of Belgium and Welsh descendants everywhere.

    Judah (Royalty) = Northern Ireland, Scotland and some still dispersed in Western Europe with some in Germany.

    Dan = Southern Ireland and Irish descendants everywhere

    Reuben = Northern Gallic France

    Zebulon = Holland

    Gad = Belgium

    Issachar = Switzerland

    Naphtali = Finland

    Benjamin = Norway, Iceland and Denmark

    Asher = Sweden

    13 tribes listed in all due to Joseph’s two sons Ephraim & Manasseh both inheriting see Genesis 48 and 49.

  • @ Max

    Now you’re trolling – the classic sign of a man with no argument.

  • Pingback: Right? Wrong?()

  • Obamma has been consistently criticized for having a leftist view of history and drawing inappropriate moral equivalencies. His State of the Union did nothing to change that view. Yes, Yes Yes we all know that the crusades were a bloody failure and the inquisition was a nightmare and slavery in the US was a national disgrace. But what the left fails to recognize is that each of these events contradicts the plain meaning of scripture. While scripture may presuppose that slavery existed in its time, it in no way said it was a good or beneficial institution. In fact it was Christianity that for the first time said each slave had innate worth. How many people could read during the crusades? One Person in a thousand? How many had access to a bible during the Inquisition, let alone an accurate translation? Answer almost no one. No one on the left has even heard of William Wilberforce, yet is was his movement and others like him that defeated slavery. What the left consistently does is cherry pick those who are clearly not following the bible and conflates all of Christianity with them. Then the left says Christianity is no better than the killers in other religions as well. It comforts the left to think everyone is in the same place and every religion is just as flawed and bad as the next. In that way the left absolves itself of having to grapple with the larger truth questions that religion brings.

  • philip

    You’d probably be happier if you became more acculturated and adjusted your thinking accordingly.

    Kaching! Just a snippet from another insult-laden post from nasty Ad Hominem Jack. Caught ya again, Jackie!

  • philip

    I’m picturing Max’s ancestors wagging their gnarled fingers at the freed men and women.

    Kaching! More viciousness from nasty, typically Christian Ad Hominem Jack. Caught ya yet again!

  • philip

    Welcome to the real world.

    Kaching! More viciousness from nasty Ad Hominem Jack. Caught ya again!

  • Frank

    Completely false Jack. Atheism is not equivalent to naturalism, and generally the more scientific atheists will allow that there might be more than matter and energy, that we don’t know.

    What you lack is the courage to admit “we don’t know”. Instead, you take the lazy, gutless way out – the Argument from Ignorance assumption of a creator – when the real truth is that you just don’t know.

  • philip

    Not content with littering…

    Kaching! Another demeaning post by our nastiest poster, the typically vicious Christian Ad Hominem Jack. Caught ya again, li’l nasty Jackie.

  • Ben,
    Let me suggest that many “Christians” in jail are Christians in name only and not in any way seeking to follow the teachings of Christ. The other possibility is that a Christian sitting in jail is a deeply flawed adherent of a religion that would tell them not to do things that would put them in jail in the first place. Any Christian in jail plainly broke some very basic precepts of Christianity. Let me suggest that most people in jail are not actively following any religion at all, more akin to an atheist………

    Let me suggest that vicarious atonement is the most sublime concept on the face of the earth. There is only one alternative to vicarious atonement and that is self righteousness. Vicarious atonement is s open to all, rich or poor, male, female, anywhere, anytime, anyplace, any station of life, any tribe, any language, and any age. Let me suggest that the only alternative, self righteousness is truly ugly and all about me me me.

    By the way Christianity also teaches not to just pass off your sins because you know you are forgiven.

  • @Arbut,

    “Vicarious atonement is open to all”

    Shameful nonsense.
    Vicarious redemption (better put) is the most immoral, horrible concept ever invented.

    The most terrifying person on earth is someone who assumes he will be forgiven for his horrible behavior. Damnable, evil horse crap.

  • @Arbut,

    “what the left fails to recognize is that each of these events contradicts the plain meaning of scripture.”

    I get tired of teaching the Bible to Christians.

    You would think after all the witch hunts and pogroms somebody would pay attention to the root of Christian evil!
    But that is too much to ask, I guess.

    “bring to me those enemies of mine and execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

  • Garson Abuita

    Do you even know how to read? I said “people and institutions.” Although I suppose someone who thinks “Yashua” is an accurate transliteration shouldn’t be trusted with reading comprehension. If you consider me a member of the “synagogue of Satan,” I wear that label proudly.

  • CC,

    What is the Devil’s Seed? THE GARDEN OF EDEN?

    You keep repeating that you don’t follow any Moses Laws yet you keep referring to the Laws of Moses!
    GENESIS is the Law of Moses!

    “And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws”- Yahweh (Genesis 26:5-4)

  • Amy

    Americans have heard of the LRA…Joseph Kony is pure evil….they are not fighting Muslims…they are creating child soldiers, raping and murdering,,,they are against the government…Its founder and leader Joseph Kony believes that he is a prophet sent from God to purify the people of Uganda and to create a bastion of peace. Kony originally called his terrorist group Uganda Christian Democratic Army. – See more at: http://terrorisminafrica.com/the-lords-resistance-army/#sthash.T0VLCBaf.dpuf

  • samuel Johnston

    .”..no God means no soul, which means no objective difference in kind between humanity and other forms of life.
    Behold the “Man is a special case argument”. Well, so are cats and bats, special cases, in the sense that they are unique, yet they also form part of the unbroken web of life that started 31/2 Billion years ago as anaerobic bacteria deep in the hot rocks of earth.
    Since we are all descended from the lower forms of life, we cannot be a special
    case. For that, the creationists would have to correct, and they have been losing that argument since the great debate between William Paley and Thomas Huxley in the Nineteenth Century.
    For all the wonderful discoveries of medical science, not a trace of the “soul” has been found.
    Now it is O.K. to not like the facts, but to dismiss them in favor of mere speculation is irrational. When men die, they die exactly like the cats and bats- once dead they do not arise.

  • @ Garson Abuita

    I use Yashua Messiah to separate myself from fake Christians who use Jesus Christ’s name in vain, but either name is OK.

    You said:

    “I suppose someone who thinks “Yashua” is an accurate transliteration shouldn’t be trusted with reading comprehension.”

    Ah spoken like a true gnat straining 21st century Pharisee. LOL

    “If you consider me a member of the “synagogue of Satan,” I wear that label proudly.”

    I don’t just consider you a member, I know you’re a member, and your end is burning in the fire as a Tare.

  • @ Jack

    98% of the The ‘Russian’ Revolutionary Committee were Jews. Even Lenin had a Jewish grandparent.

    The Cheka that butchered millions of Russians and Ukrainians were Jews.

    Talmudic Judaism contains the precepts of Bolshevik Marxism.

    The Jew is not a nationalist – he hates nationalism hence they declared war on Germany in 1933. The Jew is internationalist as is Bolshevik Marxism.

    “The Jew is an inborn Communist” – Otto Weninger

  • Garson Abuita

    Charles Crosby,
    You’d think someone who has taken on the mission of attacking the Jewish people would make an effort to understand the Hebrew language. There is no such word as “Yashua.” You and your theological predecessors made it up. You are adding a letter where it doesn’t belong. If you consider a commitment to linguistic accuracy “straining at a gnat” then again, I wear that “Pharisee” label proudly. Your threat that I will burn in hell or something is meaningless to me, but keep trying.

  • No, I mean they are Bolshevik Marxist conditioning centres for brainwashing Orwellian style lies, perversions and distortions into young people’s minds.

    PC is just a tool of Bolshevik Marxists as is the ‘hate speech’ label.

  • Meditate on these words from a heathen:

    “I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” – Mahatma Gandhi

  • I didn’t say burning in hell, I leave all that BS to Papists.

    I said you will burn when Yashua Messiah returns and you sons of Cain & Canaan – The Devil’s Seed – The Tares will be gathered up and burned.

    And yes you’re a 24crt gnat strainer – A Pharisee.

    Philp 3:2 (KJV) Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

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  • Garson Abuita

    We can lob insults at each other all day. When you can explain how “Yashua” is an accurate transliteration of any Hebrew word, let me know.

  • Garson Abuita

    btw, I take it your quote from Philippians is an attempt to label me a “Judaizer.” I have no interest in Judaizing Christianity. I am not a Christian and have no interest in becoming one. I do have an interest in countering attempts by you, Stephen Lewis, and anyone else who tries to distort and abuse Jewish texts and history to promote scientifically verifiable falsehoods.

  • CC,

    “Christians are so unlike your Christ.” – Mahatma Gandhi


    Gandhi didn’t know Christ’s teachings so he didn’t realize that Christ taught cruelty and hate.

    “Hate yourself, hate your family” – JESUS

  • Stephen Lewis

    Artbuth, let me suggest to you that you read the Gospels some day to see what Jesus Christ thought about people in prison before going off your on your own religious beliefs in opposition to Jesus Christ’s. Also, vicarious sin atonement is one of the stupidest ideas ever created by human beings. There is NO WAY in hell that another person can morally take the rap for your transgressions. I mean, you thoughtless believers in Pauline tripe ideas never stop to think rationally about your Bible beliefs handed to you by tradition. Stop and think for once what would happen if you’re in a group of people who have lynched an innocent black man and get arrested for your crimes. Now one man comes forward who did not participate at all to say “I did it. And I did it all by myself, no one else helped me” which is a downright lie of course. Well, do you let this person take the fall for all of you and if you do this, what does your conscience tell you about yourself? That you’re a slimey weasel ducking moral responsiblity by foisting your crimes onto someone else. This is your “vicarious atonement” belief in its ugly truthfulness.

    Vicarious sin atonement never did make a lick of rational sense and was coined and adopted by ancient people believing it was somehow a good thing when a king was willing to sacrifice his firstborn son in order to save his city from being razed by an invading army. Time to get rid of the notion and accept moral responsibility for your acts and not put them onto a literary creation in a story book about Jesus.

  • Jack

    Charles, the fact that a number of the Jews were Bolsheviks logically means that a number of them were traitors to their own people, because, as you certainly know, Marxism rejects both nationalism and religion — and thus the only two things that define the identity of Jews, ie their nationality and their religion.

  • Jack

    Cowering behind billboards again, Max?

  • Jack

    O…..kay, Samuel…..Moving right along….I’ll leave you with your…..ahem…..cats and bats…..

  • Jack

    Charles, British Israelitism is a laughable cult that has been refuted over and over and over again by scholars of every kind, including both in and out of Christendom.

    All you’ve done so far is make assertions.

  • Jack

    Charles thinks that because the patriarch Judah mated with a Canaanite, that makes all descendants of Judah Canaanites and not Jews. This is silliness beyond measure. All it would mean is the immediate offspring were half-Jewish and half-Canaanite. That’s it. But if they then married Jews and then their children did likewise, generation after generation….the conclusion is obvious.

    As for the Synagogue of Satan nonsense, that was lifted from the New Testament Book of Revelation….and refers to some arcane dispute, probably among Jews, in the first century. For anti-Semites like Charles to wield it as a weapon against the Jews is ridiculous. A number of modern scholars, both Jewish and Christian, are concluding that it refers to the dispute over whether Gentiles needed to convert to Judaism in order to become right with God.

    Yet another view states that the “synagogue of Satan” reference is the first-century equivalent of Gentiles like Charles, who began calling themselves Jews or Israelites and claiming to have replaced the Jews as God’s people. This is supported by the writer’s adding that they are not Jews, even while claiming to be.

  • Jack

    Wrong, Max. Look it up…….Not even close!

    Let your fingers do the walking, Max, and take walk across the Internet.

    The Inquisition was horrible enough for the many, many people caught in its evil web…..but as for actual deaths, you’re not even close……the figure was in the thousands, not the hundreds of thousands.

    Facts matter, Max. And they don’t bite. One of these days, try embracing them.

  • Jack

    In other words, Samuel, the Gospel story contradicts your own philosophy.


    But what if it really happened?

    Then…..you may have to adjust your philosophy a bit.

    Or….you could hang on to it anyway…..

    But that doesn’t make much sense….why hang onto something if it turns out not to be true?

  • Jack

    Charles, the one thing you’re right about is that there is indeed something wrong with Max’s thinking process.

    He can’t seem to follow a train of thought or argument.

    It’s as if there are voices in his head that compete with the posts he’s reading.

    Also, he clings to his billboard-like posts as if they were security blankets, and darts behind them when challenged factually.

  • Jack

    Charles, Stephen, and Max: What a trio!

    Charles the wannabe Jew and Holocaust-denying cultist, Stephen the self-hating Jewish Gnostic, and Max the human billboard and carnival barker for the New Atheism.

  • Jack

    Shawnie, the voice of sanity….and respite from the Three Musketeers of Insanity — Charles the Nazi, Stephen the self-hating Jewish Gnostic, and Mad Max, the tub-thumping propagandist and human billboard for the New Atheism.

  • samuel Johnston

    “But what if it really happened?”
    That’s bafflegab. What if the moon were made of green cheese?
    Likewise, the probability of magical beings who come from nowhere and control everything, approaches zero. Almost any alternative is more probable. Aliens, are more probable, but then why should they care about us? I doubt that they would, but that is speculation on my part.

  • Jack

    So Max thinks he’s wiser than Mahatma Gandhi.

    That’s like comparing Daffy Duck to Albert Einstein.

  • Jack

    “Philip” the nanny scold…..funny!


    “I have come to bring FIRE…What constraints! I am impatient to bring NOT PEACE BUT DIVISION.” – Jesus (Luke 12:49-51)
    “Hate your parents…hate your life, or you are not worthy” – Jesus (Luke 14:26)
    “Eat of my body” and “Be baptized and believe” or “Be condemned to Hell” – Jesus (John 6:53-54) (Mark 16:16).
    “I shall kill her children with Death” – Jesus (REV. 2:23)
    “…if they are unworthy..REMOVE your blessing of peace.” – JESUS (Matt 10:13)
    “And why do you break the command of God
    for the sake of your tradition? …. ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ ” (Matthew 15:3)
    “..bring to me those enemies of mine who would not have me as their King, and execute them in front of me.” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    Nobody could love such a monster.
    Nobody could follow these instructions and end up being a decent person.

  • Jack,

    You are not providing your sources.
    This link provides dozens if you look at the bibliography.

    150,000 – 250,000 killed in the Inquisition.


  • samuel Johnston

    So that’s it for your point of view? Man is not just part of nature, but is a special case? And for evidence you have what -vanity? Oh I forgot, man has another special quality- the soul. Please be so kind as to explain where to find this attribute? Not in the material world is it? So, we have your point of view based on a magical quality, with a magical cause, with man being a special case. It certainly strains credibility. The simple explanation (Re: Ockham’s Razor) is that we are simply part of nature, however it came to pass, and we obey the same rules.

  • Why do you liken stating The Truth as knuckle dragging?

    Have you sought help yet for your cognitive dissonance?

  • No Jack, you have not done any home work. You just parrot the official line and false Orwellian style non-history.

  • Ruby

    Oh, but it does Jack.

    The LRA are like ISIS formed by a splinter group of extremists with political motives, hiding under a theological banner. Like the Crusades, and a bit like the inquisition. What this article and many other articles do not take into account is the political/financial motives behind terrorism. Which is a bit weird because almost every terrorist group, be it Crusaders, Inquisition, ISIS, Al Queda, LRA, the first slavers, IRA, DKBA, Aum Shinrikyo, Zionists, you name it… All of them had political or financial motives originally, but they develop a faith in their cause and tie that faith into something bigger than themselves. This is terrorism 101, yet inexplicably hard for their enemies to see through.

    The LRA, or ISIS: Their problem is not their religion never has been, never will be, because they are not in any way, form, or shape, representing any religion. They represent an idea formed from political and/or financial objectives, and it is this idea you have to reform/remove/reconsider, when you want to remove their influence.

  • Lund


    Yes that would be apt. Because it’s not like you haven’t done it before.

  • I am not a fundie and people with advanced degrees usually know diddly squat about anything.

    I always love the true story about the young man who when came home from university was amazed at how much his father had learned whilst he had been away.

    Paul I am glad to say didn’t rate ‘clever’ people either:

    Col 2:8 (KJV) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

  • Jack, your comments are becoming more troll like and more ignorant with each pathetic attempt – time to get the zimmer frame and retire gracefully, before you become a laughing stock – not that you aren’t that already LOL

  • Insults are only insults if they are not true.

    You don’t have to have any interest in Christianity and you probably don’t even know what a Christian is but being a 21st century Pharisee makes you an enemy of Yashua Messiah just like your first century forebears and fathers.

  • I’m done with this crap web site, the bastards keep deleting my comments.

  • Garson Abuita

    Charles, me being an “enemy” of “Yashua messiah”- a term whose linguistic inaccuracy you have to explain – doesn’t prevent me from understanding your reference to Philippians 3. Paul was warning that community about those who wanted to “Judaize” the emerging church there. You were either accusing me of trying to Judaize Christianity, or you were using New Testament examples of disputes within the Jesus movement to do what your ilk have done with those examples for millennia- attack the Jews.

  • Atheists cannot tell us anything about spiritual beliefs as they, like OCD Atheist Max does every day compulsively, just spew out their mantras of not understanding what they read because of zero spiritual awareness. Like Muslims do, A.M. looks for contradictions in the words of Jesus. And like the Muslims do, A.M. too tries to make Jesus into a killer by their stupid, and it is utterly dumb, attempt to say a story-teller is the same thing as the people in the story he tells. So any of you reading Jack ‘n the Beanstalk could be Jack or the Giant, it’s all there in the story so what’s stopping you from being the people you read about or tell the story to others. See what I mean about how idiotic it is to think story tellers, parable tellers are the same as the people in their stories or parables. Get real and think logically instead of emotionally as fundamentalists are all prone to do, and atheism can only be held as a fundamentalist belief system as there is zero proof of no God. Or else who created the Vision of Christ’s Sword or Josephine’s family, real events and real people who are not me?

  • See my posts above responding to your rather crazy mixed up thinking about the stories you read in the Bible. Without spiritual consciousness, Max, you’re not able to understand what you read in scriptures and make rather silly remarks on how awful Christianity is as you totally ignore how very awful Atheism has been whenever it becomes state religion.

  • Ruby,

    “Their problem is not their religion never has been, never will be, because they are not in any way, form, or shape, representing any religion.”

    In a way that is exactly right. Since the claims about Allah are empty – as in, He appears to not exist at all – all ‘islamic’ efforts are just secular politics with extra claims attached.

  • Fallacy Spotting 101

    Post by ‘Stephen Lewis’ presents an instance of the Secret Decoder Ring fallacy.


  • philip

    … your cockamamie criticisms…

    Foul Ad Hominem Jack, the most vicious poster on RNS, strikes again.

  • Stephen Lewis

    Hey, spotted fallacy, you didn’t receive your Celestial Torah Decoder Ring yet? Did you send in your Krishna Kritters and Yogi Granola box tops along with all your worldly assets yet? Well, don’t complain when you don’t get what you ordered when you don’t follow directions.

    For others not waiting around for mechanical devices other than telescopes, the starry sky is available to all who are lucky enough to be able to see it, see where God’s Sign Language is there to be read by all who are willing to look.


  • Stephen Lewis


  • Stephen Lewis

    RNS is deleting my posts again. Atheists can post all day long here but a Gnostic Christian sees his posts censored on RNS.

  • Valerya

    It’s not just RNS Stephen. Everyone is out to get you.

    Now put that tin foil hat back on.

  • philip

    don’t know how to engage in anything besides monotonous repetition, and partly because you’re wrong on virtually everything

    And there yet again we have more spiteful put-downs from our local typically Christian nasty poster Ad Hominem Jack.

  • Fallacy Spotting 101

    Post by ‘Charles Crosby’ presents an instance of the Secret Decoder Ring fallacy.


  • No longer Athiest

    North Korea’s dictator is athiest….. Since we’re reaching 1000 yrs ago to soften the “heat” currently on the muslims, we might as well go far back as the dinosaurs or even Noah….. WTH, why not Adam and Even or your monkey converting to humans era (for you science lie lovers)…..

  • philip

    Kaching! Ad Hominem Jack is back again, firing off more insults with each and every post!

    Caught ya again, nasty Christian Ad Hominem Jackie.

  • Nathan Bollong

    You, sir, are rather ignorant of historical facts. The Christian West suffered nearly 400 years of constant Islamic aggression, without any provocation from Europe. Beginning in 711, the Islamic Moors flooded across the Straits of Gibraltar and conquered Christian Spain (after slaughtering the Berbers and Christians in North Africa). In 732, the Moors attempted to conquer western Europe, but were defeated at the Battle of Tours by Charles Martel. Constant attempts to invade Europe followed, and were repelled but between 750,000-1,000,000 European slaves were taken from vilages and towns (which were burned and looted) along the Mediterranean coast. By the time of the first Crusade, the Euros had a score to settle.

    Further, you failed to mention the 100 million Hindus murdered during the Islamic invasions (American historian Charles Beard estimated 60-70 million). So, please present undistorted facts of history.

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  • Tim

    Islam is about 1,000 years younger than Christianity. The Christian religion began committing their atrocities against mankind long before Islam exsisted. Christianity has evolved into a more peaceful religion through the years. The same can be said for every religion ever known. So we all need to get off our high horses.
    The point of this article, and the point the president made, is don’t generalize.
    That’s where Christians went wrong before. It’s a battle against extremists, not Islam. Don’t forget that for every Islamic extremists, there are 5 peacefull Islam followers.
    Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Just get rid of the dirty water (extremists) and let the baby (religion) mature.
    There is no denying that Christianity did horrible, unthinkable acts against mankind, but the religion itself matured through knowledge and wisdom that came with time

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  • rafe husain

    Christians are #1

    In terms of violence and killing Christians are way ahead of Islam in every century. Ignoring the millions killed by Christians taking slaves from Africa and the millions of native Americans killed by christians. I will just do the numbers for the 20th century.
    A famous Christian (US) country starts off the 20th century by invading the phillipines and killing millions. Another famous Christian country takes over the Congo and kills millions there ( Belgian congo used to cut hands of african children if their parents did not bring enough rubber).
    Then we have ww1 started by christian nations who managed to kill some 35 million fellow christians.
    Christian leaders unsatisfied with the results of WW1 started WW2. In this round they managed to kill some 60 million primarily Christians. During WW2 Christians leaders killed millions of ethnically different people (may i remind your readers the Holocaust was run by Christians not Muslims). . lack of space to…