Mormon critic John Dehlin will have to wait to learn his fate

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John Dehlin, creator of, is facing possible excommunication for his stance on LGBT Mormons.

Creative Commons image by Tom Caswell

John Dehlin, creator of, is facing possible excommunication for his stance on LGBT Mormons.

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NORTH LOGAN, Utah (RNS) John Dehlin said he knew church discipline might be a “possible, even likely outcome” of his efforts. “I am not a victim. I don’t fault the church.”

  • Karla

    1 Corinthians 6:9-12 and Romans 1:18-32 both make it clear that being a
    homosexual is wrong but all of the sins are wrong! The Bible is clear that
    Jesus was not created so the mormons need to swallow all of their egos
    and their pride/admit they are wrong! Jesus said before Abraham I Am so
    the birth of Jesus was not a creation but a mircale. Emmanuel means God
    with us plus John 14:7-11 makes it very clear that Jesus is in the Father and
    the Father is in Him! Jesus said that I and the Father are one so while on the
    earth Jesus had to submit to the Father/ the will of the Godhead/ the Trinity
    yet had the fullness of God upon Him to perform miracles/fulfill all prophecy.

    In Revelation 1:17-18…Jesus says that I Am the First and the Last so that
    again shows He was not a created being/is co-eternal with God the Father
    and the Holy Spirit plus also no true prophet can be revered if they’re a liar.
    Joseph Smith was/is a proven liar. Mormons need to return to the God of the Bible. Bible is clear that if anyone brings to you/ teaches a different Gospel
    don’t listen. Luke 13 says we must bear good fruit and that fruit is the fruit
    of Repentance not good works because many non-believers do good works
    so good works don’t save any of us. Only Repenting/trusting in Jesus saves!
    Bible says Repent and believe the Gospel to be saved! We all must Repent!

  • Hales Swift

    John Dehlin has made a profitable business of being a church critic. See for example, this discussion:

  • alice

    What an ironic comment, Hales Swift. If one were to follow the profit no doubt it would lead directly to a top floor at the Church Office Building.

  • Karla,
    I find it difficult to follow your logic (?). Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do believe that Christ is eternal, and he has always existed. If we talk of Him as obtaining a body as His creation in the flesh that should not be hard to follow. I suppose one could refer to is birth as a miracle but I don’t recall any place in the Bible that declares his birth as a “miracle”. Now as to your understanding that of John 14:7-11- I am guessing because John says Christ is in God and God is in Christ that you interpret that to mean the Son and the Father are one and the same individual. But let’s also refer to John 17 starting with verse 11. You will notice that he prays that the Father and the Son and his apostles may be one. He further prays that all that believe on their words may also be one with the Son and the Father.(vs. 21). These verses in John 17 are the only place in the Bible that defines what the “oneness” of the Godhead is means or is explained. In John 20:17 Christ further explains that as Mary’s God is God the Father, The Father is the God of Christ. The Trinity we speak of is one of love, affection, the same plan to save mankind, they work together, etc. Not one in the sense they are only different manifestation of the same person or Godhead or of the same substance if you like. Neither Christ, nor his Apostles taught the doctrine of the Nicean Creed. It was a council convened by a murderous emperor, by men affected with pagan philosophy, and concocted 300 years after the death of Jesus. Therefore Joseph Smith was not a liar. Your understanding of Luke 13 seems to be rather narrow, that is Christ taught if you love me keep my commandments. He also said except one is born of the water and the spirit he cannot enter heaven (John 3:5). Furthermore Rev.20:12 states: when the books of judgment are open we will be judged according to our works.
    And if you had known LDS doctrine you would know we do believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are co-eternal.
    You speak of the egos of Mormons, but look at the way and manner you have address us and see if maybe you also have an ego problem. If you would like to see what LDS beliefs are check us out at Thank you Karla I feel you have a love of the scriptures and God.

  • Karla

    Stephen- Thank you for your feeback. One God with the three parts but are
    one in their unity is what we Christians believe. The mormons belief system
    goes wrong when you say polytheism is true but I do appreciate the feedback.
    Jesus was not created and first born over all creation refers to His rank not a
    creation. The main thing is He/Jesus was not created plus with all/everything
    that Joseph Smith said that wasn’t true/him sealing the so called “spirit brides”
    when there is no sex in heaven has to make you question the mormon beliefs.
    Emmanuel means God with us so Jesus is God as part of the Trinity/Godhead.

  • To Karla,
    I have shown the Godhead is a social Godhead, as some titled it, by referencing John 17. You on the hand have failed to submit Biblical verse that explains your point of view, i.e. Christ and God are of the same substance as the Nicene Creed claims. In your previous comment you wrote that Christ was in God and God was in Christ to show the oneness of the Godhead; again I refer to John 17:21: “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” Here the main subject of the John 17 is that the Father, Son and all that believe are one. Which make nonsense of you position if you reference John 14.
    You also failed to explain how God is the God of Christ as in John 20:17. Likewise if we follow your explanation of John 17 we would indeed have poly theism. That is, Beside the Godhead being God so would the Apostles and all that believe are gods. Basically what you are trying to do is protect the Nicene Creed which also teaches the schizophrenic idea that at one moment or instance or at the same time the Godhead is all one but conversely, at the same time they are three. Hence believers in the NC are at one moment monotheist and at the same time poly theist. I see no relief in your position trying to defend such nonsense.
    As far as the definition of Emmanuel goes; If you knew LDS doctrine better you would know we do believe that Christ was/is God with us, but we do not draw the same conclusion as you do as to a definition of the Godhead.
    Karla, you have failed to tell me what religion or teachings you generally follow; Which is a bit unfair. But know this you may also be a spirit child of God. The soul is of two parts – the spirit and the physical body. Tell me where did your spirit come from? Book and verse if you please.

  • Karla

    Stephen- I’m a Christian/no denomination just a follower of Christ/the Bible.
    We can just agree to disagree and I appreciate your feedback but I will say
    that the mormon teachings of polytheism/you get your own planet/become a
    god/your own god and sex in heaven/spirit wives are all false teachings and
    Joseph Smith was/is a proven liar. No true prophect can be revered if they’re
    a liar so Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Bible says that if anyone doesn’t
    continue in all the teachings of Christ/brings to you a/teaches another or a
    different Gospel don’t listen and that person will be eteranlly condemned so
    the mormon gospel is different because you believe in works plus the Bible
    also says even if an angel appears to you/says something other than what
    the Bible teaches don’t listen cause the devil poses as an angel of light so
    this angel that appeared to Joseph Smith was not from God/Jesus! We can
    now just agree to disagree. Your belief system is not all Biblical! Jesus was
    not created because He said before Abraham I Am and what did God say to
    Moses? He said I Am! The Trinity can get confusing but the main thing you
    need to know is that Jesus was not created so read the Bible. God bless.

  • To Karla,
    First of all we do not believe that each LDS will be rewarded with their own his/her planet. We do believe God will reward us only if faithful but his rewards will be beyond our expectations. At one time B. Young said something similar but it was never doctrine of the Church, merely his surmising. I must say you are easy to judge JS as a liar. Because you don’t agree with him does not make him a teller of untruths. For instance would you please show me where the official LDS doctrine teaches that Christ is/was created and is not an eternal being? As I said we believe Christ was created in the flesh. Any read on the birth of Christ teaches This basic point. John 1:14 says “and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us”. Remember the bible story of his birth. You may not be a member of a church but your belief systems say that you endorse the Nicene Creed. In my previous comment I challenged you to defend the creed but you fail to do so. The trinity is a difficult doctrine to defend biblically. If you wish to discuss it in more detail I will oblige. As far as becoming our own god you are also inaccurate. Jesus Christ and God the Father will always be our supreme and we will serve them though out eternity. I think your confusion comes because we believe and teach, in what some have termed Theosis. Which by the way over 100 million Orthodox Christians endorse the doctrine also. Theosis is supported by various Bible verses and says basically in the judgment righteous individuals will be rewarded with heir ship. You may wish to review these verses:
    Ps.82:6;Jn.10:34;Acts 17:19;Rom.8:17;2Cor.3:18;Gal.4:7;Eph.4:13;Heb.12:9;1Jn.3:2;and Rev.3:21.
    So Karla just because you do not see the bible as others do does not make them lairs. You have not answered some question posed in my last list of question please do so if you get a chance. Mostly you just bring up more complaints against the LDS Church. That is a game that is hard to play. Please reply to my questions or comments and then we can go on to others I am taking up a bit to much space here so I will post more comment in the morning regarding your post of Feb 12 Good evening Karla

  • Karla

    Stephen-The reason Jospeh Smith is a false prophet is because he made
    predictions that were not true/false. At this point now we can just agree to
    disagree so you don’t need to post anymore verses because I believe the
    mormon doctrine to be false and for someone to be revered as a prophet
    they have to be 100% accurate and mr.Joseph Smith wasn’t. Bible is very
    clear that Jesus is God as part of the Trinity/Godhead so when you try to
    tell people that the Trinity/Godhead is not true/teach polytheism you are
    not being Biblical. The Bible is the Truth/we must be Biblical. God bless.

  • You are not very convincing, make a few unsupported statements and then run away from the conversation. Have a good day