February 16, 2015

Gay Catholics find a new tone under Pope Francis, and from their own bishops

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San Francisco's Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone speaks at the 2013 March for Marriage event in Washington, D.C.

Creative Commons image by The American Life League

San Francisco's Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone speaks at the 2013 March for Marriage event in Washington, D.C.

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ROME (RNS) New Ways Ministry and a similar Catholic LGBT organization in Britain are finding support from the Catholic hierarchy in their efforts to meet the pontiff.

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  • There are, of course, not ‘gay’ Catholics. There are Catholics for whom sexual perversion is an issue, individuals with Catholic baptisms who have confounded the Catholic faith with contemporary psychobabble, and sinister characters who understand that if you want to undermine an institutions, you burrow around within it. Clergymen who are serious about their vocation concern themselves with the first group (who are likely to be the least exhibitionistic of the lot) in their ministry and are careful to keep the last at bay.

  • Larry

    Gay Catholics should not be deceived by such rhetoric.

    It is obvious Pope Francis talks a great game about changes in Church policy but doesn’t actually do anything on the subject. They should expect the same level of ostracism, prejudice and discrimination from Catholic Church officials they have always dealt with,.

  • Doc Anthony

    That’s not true, Larry. Granted, it DOES look, at least superficially, like Francis “doesn’t actually do anything” (as you say), to aid the gay marriage activists. The Catholic Catechism isn’t being publicly re-written to approve homosexual marriage.

    But that’s not what Catholic pro-gay activists really want anyway. They don’t care what Francis says or writes. They don’t care about Popes, they don’t care about Cardinals, they don’t even care about Catholicism for that matter.

    (Catholicism isn’t even their primary religion, because **LGBT** is what they worship. No joke!!)

    Oh no no, Larry. All THEY want from Francis, is for Francis to do what he has already done. Simple as that. They just want him to use his giant media pulpit to speed-up the process of GOVERMENT legalizing gay marriage. They know that they can “win it from there”, no matter what any Catholic official says or does.

    That’s all they want from Pope Francis, and he is happily, totally, givin’ it up for them. The world’s first Gay-Marriage Pope, that’s for sure. The Catholic Church (and Protestant churches too!) are facing a time of disaster.

  • Ken

    @Larry,

    One thing is always on the agenda of LGBT’s, and that is to seduce and debauch as many other people as they can. This issue of sexual predators has been in and at the Church since Jude and Peter confronted it.

    LGBT’s do not want just a place at the table, they want to own the table, the house it’s in and all the pretty young new converts they can get their hands on. History has a way of being altered by the loudest voices. And no one screams the loudest than the gay rights movement. And now it has finally come for the Church.

  • Ken

    @Doc,

    As predicted. This great falling away, lead by gay activists is the natural progression of this licentious world (the world and its ways) in which we find ourselves surrounded by.

    The catholic Church knows well how to sell indulgences. And the LGBT demand looks to bring a massive amount of money and power into the coffers.

    This is certainly the second most dangerous movement directed at Christians. Jihad warriors on one side and Rainbow Warriors on the other, What used to be labeled as paranoia is now total reality.

    It is time for The Church to move back to homes and to the catacombs and leave the Church buildings to become the new bath houses of the 21st century.

    The attack on the Church from satanic forces . . . thiis is really happening.

  • John

    Ask Pope Francis to uphold and reaffirm Church teaching on marriage and family at the upcoming Synod in Rome. Join 16,000 on this prayerful petition.
    http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/sign-petition-to-pope-francis.html

  • Larry

    Give me a break Ken. Their “agenda” is to not be attacked under the color of law and to be treated like human beings.

    Christians like yourself always look for excuses in the Bible to opt out of treating others in a “Christian” manner. To attack, demean, discriminate and in some cases kill or imprison people under the excuse of divine command. This kind of bad behavior only makes it easier for people to ignore the unnecessary deference society gives to people of professed faith. Keep it up, you make new atheists every day with such attitudes.

    We both know the Church has no intention on reversing its policy of open discrimination against gays where they can get away with it. So my issue is with making pretenses otherwise for the general public.

  • Larry

    Like you know what gay activists want? Seriously your only communication with anyone who “bats for that team” is hurling epithets and invective at them. Its not like you ever talk to such people like they were human beings.

    Its pretty easy to tell what such people want. Its to not be discriminated against by the church at every available opportunity and to be treated like any other member of the flock. But I doubt any such action will be taken by the Catholic church.

    One thing we both agree on, surprisingly, is that people should not waste their time remaining in faiths and sects which openly declare them as less than people Faiths and sects which actively work to discriminate against them.

  • Like you know what gay activists want?

    We kinda figured that out from reading newspapers the last 40-odd years and observing their behavior in public and organizational settings.

  • Ben in oakland

    “What used to be labeled as paranoia is now total reality.”

    Naaaaah. It’s still paranoia, with a healthy dose of self-serving imaginary morality.

    If a certain class of so-called Christian didn’t try to define being a Christian as being anti-gay, they would be incredibly surprised to find 1) that the world doesn’;t revolve around them, and 2) that we couldn’t possibly care any less about them than we already don’t.

  • Ben in oakland

    “One thing is always on the agenda of LGBT’s, and that is to seduce and debauch as many other people as they can. This issue of sexual predators has been in and at the Church since Jude and Peter confronted it. ”

    I’m glad to hear you’re not an ignorant bigot and never heard of Corinthians 6. .

  • Greg

    Yes, you are correct, Larry. Pope Francis has reached out to gay groups, but his intent is not what is being proclaimed by CNN. It is merely to extend a welcoming hand, so that a true conversion back to Christ can begin. If you read the full text of Francis it is in the context of confessing sins, and being part of a gay lobby. Francis: “But if a person, lay or priest or Sister, has committed a sin and then has converted, the Lord forgives, and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets … If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge him?” He then goes on to reference the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs, 2357 – 2359. Our news media gets pretty carried away with the gay stuff, and try to push the envelope. However, they cannot seem to grasp that the Catholic Church does not have the authority to authorize gay marriage, or the gay lifestyle. It is outside of the Plan of Salvation, so the Church is bound by our Lord’s teaching, and must abide by it.

  • Cranmer

    @Ken That is the most hateful thing I’ve just about read here before. Are you serious?

  • Doc Anthony

    “Like you know what gay activists want?”

    Yes Larry, I do know what the gay activists of my hometown and state want, because (unlike you, hmm?) I have spent a few years listening to them, attending their public forums, and sometimes talking with them face-to-face.

    I know what their positions and talking points are, because I have asked them in person, not merely by reading books and magazines.

    I could ask how much face time YOU have put in, but I don’t really care. The real issue here is that the gay marriage Cultists have found a powerful friend in Pope Francis. This has never happened with any other Pope in world history.

    Because of Francis, the gay marriage crusade has ALREADY been speeded up, not just politically and legally, but also within Christianity itself, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Things are visibly changing, Larry. You and I are watching history — BAD history — unfold before our very eyes. Nevertheless, win or lose, Christians must take a real stand on this issue, Christians must start agreeing with their own Bibles.

  • Doc Anthony

    But you gotta admit Ben, Ken is calling it right. Thats for sure.

    The “pretty & young” “new-convert” thing IS a very real aspect of the gay community, especially on the gay guys’ side. It’s no joke. At all.

    It may not be talked about much — at least not in religious forums like this one — but I think you would agree that this aspect is very real.

  • Larry

    Somehow I don’t see you involved in any kind of polite civil discussion with such people. Especially given your open hostility and frequent employment of slurs and demeaning language. Your credibility is next to nil.

    “I could ask how much face time YOU have put in”

    You mean actually talking to people as civil human beings on the subject? Plenty. I even dare to know gay couples who are married personally. Including members of my family.

    It is a somewhat different tone in my neck of the woods. Bible thumping bigots are a very small minority. Lapsed Catholicism being the most common Christian sect. Marriage equality is already the law in both the state I live in (by judgment) and the one I work in (by legislative means). Its already a done deal here.

    I sincerely doubt any such “face time” you have done is more than simply insulting people and acting in a belligerent manner. You simply do not paint the portrait of someone who can actually

  • Larry

    Given your previous “fact trolling”, I sincerely doubt you get your news from reliable sources.

  • Ben in oakland

    Why would I agree with something that is blatantly untrue at worst, and at best no more true for gay men than it is for heterosexual men?

    Why would I agree with something founded in anti-gay theology and anti-gay ideology, spouted by a man who has demonstrated both repeatedly?

    Why would I agree with something spouted by a person just educated enough to argue persuasively, but with no real regard for facts, logic, and experience?

    Why would I agree with something vomited out by a black man, who ought to recognize bigotry and hate when he sees it, but prefers to believe in his own superiority as a Christian, a moral person, and a human being?

    When your 3/5 of an opinion starts resembling those of a kind, caring, compassionate human being, unpoisoned by bigotry, hate, conservative religious belief, and ideology…

    I’ll be sure to consider it.

  • Doc Anthony

    Well Larry, you’re not the model of “civil discussion” yourself. You are all hostile and “talk-down” to Bible-believing Christianity and Christians (of any denomination), and you know it.

    So make no misake: Me attaining some “credibility” with you, is seriously not my goal. Instead, it’s YOU who needs to establish some “credibility” with ME, if you don’t mind. Yeah!

    I’ve noticed that Christians who try to meet you halfway still get your negative criticism if they say the slightest opposition to the Gay Marriage Crusade.

    But me? Well you know me. I’m NOT even trying to meet you halfway on this topic. I’m not looking for your “seal of civility” (nor do I consider you qualified to give it!) on this topic. I bring the BBQ sauce and dare you to turn up the heat.

    Now hear this: I DO respect both straights and gays as God-created people who both carry the image of God within them, and that’s how I have been able to do real dialogue with both straights and gays for years. By the way, I also respect YOU on that same basis.

    (But “respect a person” don’t mean “sugarcoat the mess.” H*** no!!).

    Look, the “Legalize Gay Marriage Cult” cult is going to win the national game soon, we both agree. But I view that event as a huge tragic EVIL, while you see it as A-Okay-&-Twice-On-Sunday.

    So our conversations will always be a bit intense, Larry. (Unless one of us converts to the other side, of course. And me, I AIN’T doing it !!!)

  • Larry

    I don’t misrepresent your POV as badly either.

    You can’t even criticize someone for talking down to others without doing the same!

    “Bible-believing Christianity” as opposed to Christian sects you don’t agree with. Then, they are phonies to you.

    The attempt at meeting half-way is merely saying the same nonsense but in a different tone. There is no such thing as half-way on a civil liberties issue. Either you have an opinion or you are staying out of the way of it.

    “Now hear this: I DO respect both straights and gays as God-created people who both carry the image of God within them”

    But obviously some are more in the image than others. You use your religious belief to justify treating others as less than people. No alleged declaration of faith changes that. You deliberately insult and attack others under the pretense of support of your faith. You can’t even pretend to abide by such a statement in the same paragraph.

    The only thing we agree on is your version of Christianity is hostile to gays.

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  • Amalgamate Godd

    Actually, the Pope has nothing to do with govt approving gay equality. The Pope and the church are powerless when it comes to that. The Pope’s so called “acceptance” is a response that the western world is not approving of anti-gay bigotry any longer. The seats are emptying fast and Francis is trying to stop it

  • Amalgamate Godd

    No, if he does that, the church is doomed. He must embrace equality for all!

  • Greg

    The pope has his own peculiar style, but in the end, Church Teachings will remain intact. They have to, because they are from God, who promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church (Matthew 16:18).

  • Larry

    No Greg. It isn’t.
    Quite the opposite. It helps that they don’t get accidentally pregnant and can throw resources towards fewer, planned children.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/07/children-of-same-sex-couples-are-happier-and-healthier-than-peers-research-shows/

    Doesn’t your religion have some kind of prohibition against bearing false witness?

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  • J Mitchell

    You’re right, there are no gay Catholics or straight Catholics, there are only children of God, all of whom are loved by Jesus and God and, apparently, the pope. And, frankly, that’s good enough for me. That’s the group I try and be with.

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  • daniel

    Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven……..do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.1 Corinthians 6:9-11………I believe its the power of God that a being becomes a new creation in Christ…not power from a pope ,president,or pastor straight gay or in between, although they might help lead you away from the truth …Do not judge lest you be judged , Daniel = God is my Judge if this is true we should think of Homosexuality as The ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which BRINGS NOTHING BUT Shame and Contempt 2 each his own

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