Franklin Graham’s Facebook prayers target Supreme Court justices on gay marriage

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Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, addresses the crowd at the Festival of Hope, an evangelistic rally held at the national stadium in Port-au-Prince, on January 9, 2011. Photo courtesy of REUTERS/Allison Shelley
*Editors: This photo may only be used with RNS-FRANKLIN-GRAHAM, originally transmitted on May 20, 2015 or with RNS-CRUZ-COLUMN, originally transmitted on June 9, 2015, or with RNS-GRAHAM-REPUBLICAN, originally transmitted on Dec. 22, 2015.

Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, addresses the crowd at the Festival of Hope, an evangelistic rally held at the national stadium in Port-au-Prince, on January 9, 2011. Photo courtesy of REUTERS/Allison Shelley *Editors: This photo may only be used with RNS-FRANKLIN-GRAHAM, originally transmitted on May 20, 2015 or with RNS-CRUZ-COLUMN, originally transmitted on June 9, 2015, or with RNS-GRAHAM-REPUBLICAN, originally transmitted on Dec. 22, 2015.

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(RNS) Franklin Graham is using social media to prompt prayers for a gay marriage ruling that follows "God's law."

  • Cranmer

    Why, in the words of Franklin Graham,”as a society we cannot survive if we turn our back on God’s standards and His definition of marriage,” but we can solidly turn our backs on God’s standards for justice and peace? Our society is unjust and oppresses the poor. In fact, the very heart of Jesus’s message in the Gospels is put aside for a fanatical obsession with abortion and gay marriage. Do these ‘bible-believing’ Christians actually read the bible? How is gay marriage going to bring down a country that already makes war on the weak, imprisions the innocent and oppresses the poor?

  • mgbeheler

    If he, or anybody else, prays for God’s will to be done, no doubt the ruling will be the correct one, whatever it is.

  • Doc Anthony

    Franklin Graham is doing the right thing. Granted, it’s a last-ditch, last-minute thing, and it may already be too late for America.

    This backslidden nation seriously wants to find out, up close and personal, exactly what happened to Sodom. And it is absolutely on the brink of succeeding.

    But prayer is always in order no matter what the situation is or may become, and therefore Franklin Graham has got it right. Kudos to him for making this emergency prayer effort.

  • Greg1

    For the SCOTUS to even be deadlocked on this exhibits the radical nature of the Justices. As a nation we will suffer the consequences of gay marriage should it be decided as such. As for me, I will engage in civil disobedience. God’s laws are all I care about, not flippant, novel, man. 1 Timothy 1: “We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing gay sex, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.”

  • Barry the Baptist

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

    Oh, Christ…you’re serious. And you KNOW what happened at Sodom.So that it can be brought out of myth and into fact and not list when you die, would you please commit that knowledge to a repository somewhere?

    Also, would you be willing to make a very specific prediction as to what will happen to America if it continues down this path you wring your hands over? Specific details and dates would be ideal.

  • Fran

    Mr. Graham mentions that “the only hope we have is prayer.” However, the real and true only hope we have is God’s kingdom or heavenly government (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 4:17), which will soon rule over man on earth with perfect justice based on love.

    Man’s governments and judicial systems are imperfect and make many mistakes in judgments and laws based on their own thoughts and principles; but God’s government and justice is perfect, righteous, fair and necessary for the best results. It will prevail over all the problems man now faces (Isaiah 11:1-9), including man’s judicial systems.

  • Greg1

    This is good. Prayer is exercise for the soul; it’s how we build our spiritual muscles, and develop our relationship with the Trinity. And of course when man is ready to put the proverbial icing on the cake of immorality, we should ask Our Lord to either stop this, or withhold his hand of Justice upon this nation. Abortion, divorce, gay marriage, and now man meddling with designer genes and synthetic babies made from harvested eggs and chromosomes, well, we are nearing the edge of the cliff. Billy Graham, I’m with you on this.

  • Random Sample

    Let’s see, a bunch of right-wing religious wackos engaging in silent, contemplative activity which, they believe, will have a magical effect on the Justices of the SCOTUS?

    Yeah, I’m good with that.

  • Vicar Dave

    Well said! I wonder if Pastor Graham would have written the same thing about slavery 150 years ago. Similar statements were made then as scripture was blindly invoked by well meaning but regressive people in support of the status quo and slavery. Jesus is for Justice, not Just Us!!
    You wonder why the “nones” are a growing force in America? Here is an example as to why.
    Pastor Graham, wake up! God speaks to us in many ways, not just in ancient Biblical texts.

  • If prayer worked The Bible Belt would not be known as ‘Tornado Alley’.

    I have absolutely no doubt that Graham’s prayers to God
    are a laugh riot:

    “Dear God, please don’t let those Supreme Court Justices have their free will. Please intercede in this one instance and force their decision – rob them of their judgement – make sure they decide it the way I propose instead because I only want what is best for you, dear Lord.
    “And clearly, Lord, you needed me to tell you to do this because you are apparently not paying attention otherwise. Praise Jesus.”

    From a grown up man. Ugh.

  • If prayer worked The Supreme Court would never have to make any decisions. They wouldn’t have to.

    We would all be on our hands and knees praying for every single thing we could think of – each prayer working perfectly – and the result would be a world of infinite fulfilled desires so insanely chaotic and unworkable we would have to pray for death!

    Prayers don’t work. And I wouldn’t trust a person who said they did.

  • The Great God Pan

    Reminds me of the nationwide “megaprayer” for Mitt Romney on 11/6/2012.

    How’d that work out, Christians? I don’t think your God cares about you.

  • Think about it:

    If prayers worked nobody would need God.
    If God was real, nobody would need to pray.

    Few ideas are so broadly insulting and so sneakily subversive
    to the human intellect as ‘prayer’.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    Then you’ve been closing your eyes to the violent anti-gay Hate Crimes that ministers who call for “death to [LGBT Americans] have caused, but the FBI is not hiding those crimes:

    http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/december/latest-hate-crime-statistics-report-released/latest-hate-crime-statistics-report-released

  • CarrotCakeMan
  • CarrotCakeMan
  • CarrotCakeMan

    Doc, if you Hate America that much, remember, Russia seems perfectly willing to allow anti-gays from the US to live there. Vladimir Putin welcomed anti-gays from the US and hosted them in Moscow last fall. Putin shares your desire to hurt LGBT people and the United States Constitution.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    Another disloyal anti-gay tells us he wants America to be attacked!

  • CarrotCakeMan

    Don’t forget, “Please, God, DESTROY your LGBT children” is no doubt part of his depraved “prayer.”

  • Fran

    God’s kingdom or government will prevail over man’s governments (Daniel 2:44); unfortunately, many religions put their faith and trust in human governments instead, even praying for them, which governments only fail.

    God will prove his love for mankind through the rule of his just and righteous kingdom (Isaiah 11:1-9) in the near future.

  • Stop showing your ignorance,”Atheist Max”; it’s the Midwest that’s known as”Tornado Alley”.Now as for prayer,normally your comments are mildly amusing,until you stray into areas outside your pay grade; then you just sound ignorant and silly.At one time I was a 2-pack-a-day smoker,2 and a half if I wdrinking.When the Lord God began to deal with me inre my moving into the ministry He was preparing me for,The Holy Spirit impressed upon my heart that these habits would not be conducive to effectively proclaiming His Word.So I got on my knees and ask The Holy Spirit to free me from nicotine addiction,and when I arose I was a non-smoker,just like that…No lingering cravings,no withdrawal symptoms,nothing.That was 2 days before Thanksgiving, 1984,and I NEVER SMOKED again,from that day to this.Doctors claim that nicotine addiction is as strong as cocaine;perhaps that’s true,I don’t know.But I know Almighty God delivered me from smoking,so while prayer might not work for YOU,it did…

  • for me.I would have much more respect for someone who admitted that prayer has never shown them any tangible results,but don’t presume to speak for everyone else,that’s just silly and asinine.As someone who has known Our Saviour for almost 40 years,to this day the time He freed me from smoking still leaves me in awe,and no doctor or psycho babbler can explain it.Until He spoke to my heart I didn’t even want to stop smoking;smokers will tell you that it’s a very enjoyable habit,and those who quit”cold turkey” have a very high recedevism rate.So…despite what you think,Atheist Max,prayer does indeed work. Of course you’ll dispute this and cast about for some desperate explanation for how Almighty God broke the grip of nicotine from me so effortlessly,but to no avail: You’ll be left with only two choices–either believe my testimony on this,or call me a rank liar,which I sure judging by your posts you undoubtedly will have no problem doing.Either way Atheist Max: PRAYER WORKS…

  • Susan

    Actually, people who pray tend to be happier and live longer. So prayer works. That is not my personal opinion. It is the result of objective research studies. It does not mean that there is or is not a God, however. Prayer works for the person praying even if there is no God or there is a God who does not answer personal prayers.

    Doc Anthony you have to read the story of Sodom more carefully. You have misunderstood it.

  • JR

    Graham is invigorating the public by offering these prayers to God. The general public needs someone unafraid to speak the truth about gay marriage. It is both a religious sacrilege and a secular wrong. It opens a door for other immoral practices to be legalized, which will then basically criminalize religious thought.
    For what is taught from the pulpits of Churches that will never compromise on what is sinful? A humanist country will begin to chip away at their right to teach as they always have. Books and Bibles could be attacked as discriminatory, just as Huckleberry Finn has been.
    So, Graham speaks for the majority, and God hears him. If the Court approves of gay marriage, then they have turned their back on Him, since God can only nurture our Free Will….not control it.

  • JR

    Did you ever speak to your parents about anything? Did their advice ever relieve you, or change your attitude about something?
    This is what prayer is. God is real, and the proof to that is overwhelming.

  • John McGrath

    The Graahams also preach that any government assistance to teh poor, the sick or the middle class is idolatry. Never heard of them criticizing subsidies to corporations and tax breaks and tax evasion for the very wealthy.

  • Susan

    Graham has a right to think and say whatever he wants. What he doesn’t have the right to do is to force his views on everyone else. That will not change. I don’t see how the Supreme Court allowing Gay marriage will criminalize religious thought.

  • Karen

    Laurence, so your god granted your wishes to cure your smoking addiction, which you should have fixed yourself, but he won’t cure the terrible cancers and other illnesses that he gave children, whose parents cared deeply for them and prayed sincerely for them to no effect.

    Uh huh. I’d say your god is just a jerk and doesn’t do a darn thing whether you pray or not. Actually, your god doesn’t even exist.

  • Karen

    Fran since your god is so cruel to innocent children with all the diseases he created to make them suffer terribly from, I’d say your god of your bible isn’t loving at all. He’d be an awful, mean being, if he actually was there at all. He also apparently repeatedly blames whole groups of people for the actions of a few, according again to your bible that you seem to love to quote pick from.

    Think about that. Actually, try to do some other critical thinking too; might help you leave your religious addiction behind at last.

  • Karen

    Nonsense JR. Nothing you posted is any proof of god whatsoever.

    Asking and getting advice from physical parents (advice, by the way, which is actually not always right), is in no way evidence for god.

    Think more critically about your religion. The world will be better off for it.

  • Karen

    Susan, those studies such as I’ve seen are weak because they don’t compare against test groups that regularly use other forms of relaxing meditation or other relaxation. If you have a citation of a study that does do a comparison like that, I’d like to see it. I agree with you that the commonly cited studies aren’t evidence for god, though.

  • Karen

    Given how unfairly punitive your bible presents your god as being, doing things such as killing large groups of people for the actions of a few, we SHOULD turn our backs on your god. Actually, if your god existed, he should be incarcerated.

  • Karen

    Awesome post, Mr. Max. Right on.

  • Susan

    Karen, I prayed for healing when my mother was dying of cancer. I didn’t think that my mother was going to be miraculously cured, but praying offered me comfort and consolation anyway. Part of what is beneficial about prayer comes from praying in a community of caring people. I meditate as well and meditation offers different benefits from praying, but even meditating in a group is helpful.

  • Cranmer

    How about you @Doc Anthony and Dr. Graham mobilize prayer to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and bring freedom to the prisoners — those are all things Jesus talked about by the way. How about you pray that are nation turns from unjust war and injustice towards the poor and the powerless? That our courts would no longer favor those with wealth and power? What’s interesting is that you cite Sodom, whereas the rest of the prophetic texts in the bible make it clear that Israel was judged repeatedly not because of sex, but because of injustice towards the poor and powerless. Read the bible a little more and get it straight!

  • Cranmer

    @John McGrath, if that’s true then the Grahams are pretty much on the WRONG side of the bible — that is if they ever get around to reading books like Isaiah or the Gospels, where its pretty clear that God is biased towards the poor and powerless.

  • @Susan,

    “people who pray tend to be happier and live longer. So prayer works.”

    What a cynical, cruel thing to say.
    The evidence in those studies shows that meditation and being part of a social group is what brings people happier, longer lives – not prayer.

    Prayer comforts the pedophile priest and forgives him for his crimes.
    It will do nothing for the victims.

    Prayer recommits the devout leadership of Al Queada and ISIS.
    It will do nothing for the victims.

    Prayer blesses and invigorates the ‘forgiven’ serial killer so he can keep killing.
    It will do nothing for the victims.

    Meditation is important, healthy, reflective and constructive.
    Prayer is insipid, demeaning and inhumane.

  • Doc Anthony

    It’s not about hating America. Just because some antebellum Christians warned that something REAL bad would happen to this nation if it didn’t give up its anti-biblical addiction to black slavery, honestly didn’t mean that they hated America. It simply meant that they were really concerned about what was coming down the road as a result of America’s sin.

    The Civil War definitely proved that their concerns were warranted.

    Something REAL bad is coming down America’s road. Unprecedented stuff, to match America’s unprecedented sin.

    (Oh, and for Barry the Baptist, I have no specific dates nor events nor crystal balls. But neither did Sodom.)

  • Karen

    Fine, Susan, but what I was asking you about was if you had any citations of comparison studies as I described. Individual anecdotes don’t fit the bill, although an aggregate and peer-reviewed comparison study of meditation and prayer cases might.

  • Susan,

    I don’t deny your claim that prayer was helpful to you – I prayed for my grandmother many years ago and found it disastrous in every way.

    Despite 42 days of scarring my knees and having overwhelming faith in God – my grandmother died painfully .
    All my priest could offer was this: “Your faith may not have been strong enough, or it was your grandmother’s time to go”

    Well, if my faith wasn’t strong enough nobody’s is.
    Yet, if it was my “grandmother’s time to go”, then prayer is evil and cruel.

    Being in a room full of caring people should be enough.
    Pretending to be talking to a god demeans everyone in the room and ruins connections people need to make in times of loss and pain. Prayer doesn’t make sense – it is an idiot’s toy.

    If god answered prayers we wouldn’t need a god.
    If God existed we wouldn’t need prayers.

  • “if your god existed, he should be incarcerated.”

    Exactly.

    Praying to god is like writing a love note to a serial killer for not killing you today.
    Childish, cruel abjection.

  • @Laurence Charles Ringo,

    “don’t presume to speak for everyone else”

    You are delusional.
    If you pray to the sun or the moon your results will be the same. I promise.

    Prayer is disgusting – especially if it really works!
    Why would God grant you something like quitting smoking, yet deny it to children dying painfully of BONE Cancer? What about their parent’s prayers?!

    I mean, how disgracefully selfish can you be!!?? Who do you think you are!!

  • ben in oakland

    Civil disobedience, eh?

    So what are you going to do, Greg? Not marry someone of the same sex?

  • Wilbur Whateley

    You mean I sacrificed all of those people to Yog Sothoth for nothing?!?!?!

  • ben in oakland

    @JR

    There are plenty of people willing to speak up against gay marriage. To pretend otherwise just feeds into your persecution complex, not anything real. They do nothing BUT speak against it, just like graham is doing, as he milks so-called Christians for more of their money.

    Except for NOM. when they had the chance to testify at the propH8 trial, they were conspicuously absent.

  • Ben in oakland

    So where are the good, so-called Christians calling out homobigots for their reviling and slander of gay people? It says right next to the part where Paul condemns abusers of themselves with mankind that revilers and slanderers will also not go to heaven.

    Where are shawnie, Greg, JR, Mr. Carr, Fran, repent-bot, and doc?

    You’re quick to condemn our alleged sin, but turn a blind eye towards all of the other sins that could be committed, and usually are.

    This is why I don’t take the bulk of the so-called Christians on these pages particularly seriously, even the intelligent ones. It is clear that your “religious” beliefs about homosexuality trump your religious beliefs in general.

  • Larry

    “For the SCOTUS to even be deadlocked on this exhibits the radical nature of the Justices.”

    Right, the gay marriage bans should be stricken down forthwith as lacking any rational and secular purpose. After all marriage rights are permissive in nature barring rational and secular reasons why a given union can’t be made. Marriage being a fundamental right between two consenting adults requires a fairly high bar for the government to meet before bans can be made legal.

    Since you and all others have pretty much surrendered any pretense of rational and secular arguments in favor of gay marriage bans, the fact that might be deadlocked speaks badly for those justices looking to uphold them.

    Let Franklin pray away. Magical thinking is really all the anti-gay crowd has left.

  • Larry

    Franklin Graham can’t even run a charity without acting like a raging d-bag

    Using charity as a pretense for blatant proselyting of children
    http://pursestrings.ca/editors.htm

    Pocketing money from smaller groups that could have been used for charity
    http://www.examiner.com/article/no-pay-no-play-with-samaritan-s-purse-operation-christmas-child-toys

  • Susan

    Karen, I haven’t had the time to look it up yet, but I will say that meditation is for a lot more than relaxation. Also, in America not that many people meditate compared to the number of people who pray and prayer can be a form of meditation.

    Max, I’m sorry you had to experience that. It must have been painful. I have never had anyone tell me that I did not pray hard enough. The rabbi of my synagogue has a son who is autistic, has back problems and uncontrolled seizures. He doesn’t think that he hasn’t prayed hard enough. Nor does prayer reduce or change the need for justice for pedophiles or serial killers. It can do something for the victims, but it won’t be a miracle.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    It’s always so sad to see Doc express his desire that America and Americans be hurt for not supporting his anti-gay political agenda.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    And yet you keep expressing your hope that Americans will be “punished” for being “insufficiently homophobic.”

    What amazes me is that anti-gays think their bloodthirsty desires will cause other Americans to abandon our United States Constitution and help anti-gays overthrow our Constitution. The evidence, in the rapidly rising majority support for marriage equality, suggests the hate speech anti-gays are shrieking louder and louder is defeating their own agenda.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    Cranmer is suggesting Doc and the anti-gay Graham act like Christians. It’s painfully obvious neither have any interest in promoting the teachings of Jesus, as they both constantly promote homophobia. Once again, “Christianity” is NOT a synonym for homophobia.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    JR claimed, “Graham is invigorating the public by offering these prayers to God.”

    But the evidence Gallup presented earlier this week demonstrates he is invigorating the strong majority of Americans who support marriage equality and reject and condemn his anti-gay political agenda.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    Of course you’re correct, Susan. Anti-gays are lying when they claim their intended LGBT victims are depriving them of “freedom of religion.” Not even the anti-gay churches that committed criminal acts to throw anti-gay Hate Votes have been chastised in any way other than hemorrhaging members.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    Good point. Anti-gays could only come up with 2 “expert witnesses” willing to perjure themselves in that trial. One of them has since petitioned the Court to strike his “testimony” from the record. The other admitted when under oath that the H8te Vote he was supposed to be defending did, indeed hurt the children of same gender California parents, and has since publicly recanted his previous anti-gay opinions.

    The boss of NOM was already a fugitive from justice during the trial and was hiding out in Russia.

  • CarrotCakeMan

    But please remember these anti-gay false Christians are the outliers in America. I can’t even list all the Christian and Jewish denominations that WANT to marry same gender couples in a single post here–but how many churches do the anti-gays truly control? Don’t list the Catholics as anti-gay, a strong majority of lay Catholics support marriage equality. Mormon tithing has collapsed after rank and file Mormons discovered their leaders misused their contributions to commit criminal acts to throw the 2008 California anti-gay H8te Vote. Pretty much the only fully anti-gay sect is composed of one church with only family members, the descendents of Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas.

  • JR

    Much better had your parents raised you better, too.

  • Fran

    Karen,
    God never “created” the diseases all humans, whether young or old, suffer from.

    Man has “inherited” sickness, disease, old age and death as a result of our first parents’ sin against God (Romans 5:12).

    God did not destroy humans and the entire earth and say “just forget about them… what was I thinking about?”

    Instead, he made the way out of this mess through his first prophecy at Genesis 3:15 (that Jesus would prevail over Satan).

    God also provided the ransom sacrifice of his perfect son, Jesus, because of his intense love for imperfect mankind, so they might not be destroyed but have eternal life (John 3:16).

    That ransom sacrifice of Jesus and his millennial rule from God’s kingdom will soon put an end to all sickness, disease, old age and death (Revelation 21:3,4). They will also bring back to life on earth those who have passed away because of those “inherited” conditions (Acts 24:15; John 5:28,29).

    If that is not LOVE, I don’t know what…

  • Fran

    is!!! And what man can get rid of ALL those conditions?

  • Karen

    Nonsense Fran. Your religion claims your god is responsible for all creation. No exceptions.

    And re the sacrifice thing, that’s yet another one you need to look at critically. An omnipotent being doesn’t need to sacrifice to make something happen. Your Satan claim is also rubbish. An all-powerful being could make a Satan go away right now without blinking an eye.

    There, I just blew away your whole religious fantasy. Seriously, learn some critical thinking before you come back and post again.

  • Karen

    Noted that an insult was all you had to respond with, JR. Says a lot about you, actually.

    Think more critically about your religion. The world will be better off for it.

  • Karen

    Susan, if you can’t back up claims readily, please don’t make them.

  • Karen

    According to your bible, your god actually makes a rather large set of mistakes, Fran. Not surprising, considering that humans created your entire god story.

  • Marta

    There’s something distinctly off about this “call to prayer.” Besides the obvious concern over “inciting” and anti-gay hate crimes, I mean. Let me try to break it down.

    Either Rvd. Graham believes God will do something he wouldn’t have done otherwise if people just pray hard enough, or he doesn’t. In the first case, that’s … problematic, as we say over on Tumblr, for two big reasons. First, that would mean that our prayers could convince God to do something he wouldn’t do otherwise, which would mean he’d have to be wrong, either before or after the change. Not cool. Also, there’s the fact his ministry works with people after disasters. I’m sure folks in Haiti and Nepal and other areas prayed quite intensely for God to spare their homes. That raises the question of why he thinks God would change these justices’ minds (something free will seems to require, and free will is at the heart of Christian theology) but not alter the weather patterns to save thousands of…

  • Marta

    The other option is, Rvd. Graham doesn’t *really* think this will change the justices’ minds. Frankly, that’s the only way I can respect him; it’s the only way he doesn’t come across as horribly unreflective of the costs of this mentality and its implications for his theology. (The whole goodness of God, just punishment for humanity’s free choice, etc. thing.)

    But there’s a cost. If this is politicized posturing, Jesus has strong words to say on that: “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.” (Mt 6:5, NKJV)

    Basically, either Mr. Graham is rejecting the Christian model of prayer, or else he’s just an unreflective bloviator. I’m really struggling to come up with a third option here.

  • Be Brave

    Carrot Cake Man’s post is a perfect example that the LGBT community and its legion of secular supporters, are not going to stop until every Christian is persecuted to obey gay demands.

    Looks like the demonic powers that fueled Nero are back. And looking to destroy Christians again.

  • Greg1

    Karen, if you only knew Who it is you are referring to so loosely, you would think twice. God gave us a world to live in; it is ours to keep, and safeguard. If we choose to destroy this world, then that is our choice. Jesus told us very clearly that we should not worry so much about this life, but the next life. What happens here is a passing moment, after this life, we will experience eternity, and Jesus was very clear that our goal should be heaven once this life is over, otherwise, eternity will be very very bad. But for those who achieve heaven, that will be eternal ecstasy, beyond anything words can describe.

  • Be Brave

    If Graham is a homophobe for holding to the immutable truth that “marriage” is man and woman/husband and wife, then not only is Graham an honest man, a good Christian, but Jesus and the Apostles are homophobes as well.

    Rather, Graham is a decent, honest, Christian. And no amount of gay hysteria, OR LGBT propaganda and hatefulness towards Christians that will not sellout Jesus and the Gospel will ever change that.

  • Be Brave

    But reality is, that it is those that will not fall face down before the rainbow idol are the ones being hurt for not worshipping gay behavior.

    That’s just fact.

  • Be Brave

    A mistake is demanding that the digestive track are sex organs. That takes the insane taking control of the APA and demanding they are mentally fit.

  • Larry W. Jones

    Billy Graham’s DNA petered out precipitously.

  • Greg1

    Karen, regarding the sacrifice thing, well, we all try to be loving, just, and merciful, but that is just a human endeavor. God, however, IS Justice, He IS Mercy, He IS, Love. Those attributes are part of God’s Nature. He is the perfected form of those characteristics. If you can understand that, then you have to ask yourself, how does someone Who is perfect Justice, and perfect Love, and perfect Mercy handle man, who is a grave sinner, requiring perfect Justice at his judgment after death? Well, there is no answer: God cannot just dismiss sin, or He wouldn’t be exercising Justice. But if He punishes the sinner, He wouldn’t be Love, or Mercy. These attributes are at odds with one another, yet they are His very Nature. So the remedy is to apply the suffering sacrifice of His Son, Jesus, to atone for the sin of man. That way God’s Justice, Mercy, and Love can coexist. But we have to repent, ask for it, or else we will experience his Justice in eternal Hell.

  • Greg1

    Actually there are other prayer groups praying that God will give his Light to the Justices of the Supreme Court.
    http://www.catholicvote.org/40daysformarriage/?REF=2

  • Be Brave

    @Atheist Max,

    Whoa, whoa, whoa. You truly support and demand that animated dust people that are nothing more than a monkey with imaginations, portraying “scientifically” that all of everything happened by accidents bumping into other accidents as somehow valuable to any discussion of moral and justice oriented issues?

    Evolution not only cannot see any right or wrong, but also discards homosexuality into the waste basket. Literally, the waste basket.

    And you dare rail against prayer and those who are sharp enough to know that the universe is not the sum total of nothing doing something?

    You atheists are not as scary as you think you are. A biter joke maybe, but not anything really that worrisome. To be pitied, or pitiful is more like it.

    But valuable? YOUR universe demands that you are nothing from nothing.

    Which as Stevie Wonder sings . . . is nothing.

  • Be Brave

    Doesn’t look like evolution sides with the gay agenda pal.

    Guess nature doesn’t care about homosexuals. They are literally cut out of it.

    No selfish gene can reproduce in the digestive tract.

    Right Mr. Dawkins?

  • Be Brave

    Think about atheism is nothing from nothing. And then the materialists demand that there is such thing as justice.

    Whose the sick minds?

    C’mon now, anything times zero is zero.

    Or the sum total of atheism.

    Just a scientific fact.

  • Karen

    Seems your god made that “mistake” too, coward.

  • Karen

    Try to do some study of selection pressures and selection independence before you post again.

  • Karen

    You have demonstrated repeatedly that you have very little awareness of “scientific facts”, coward.

  • @BB,

    All religions are just material, man made objects.
    That is what you fail to comprehend!

    All of its components are man made: divinity, sin, churches, etc….and all of it built from material brains which fear blood and death.
    And it is painfully obvious that all these superstitions make claims which fit exactly what material brains would demand of them!

    So if you don’t like Atheism and materialism – too bad!
    There is apparently no real god of any kind!

    Prove otherwise. The burden is on you.

  • @BB,

    “You truly support and demand that animated dust people that are nothing more than a monkey with imaginations…”

    I have no choice.
    You have failed – yet again – to prove a god did it.

    Your God is no different from Dumbledore, The Wizard of Oz or Allah; a fictional creation made by men – FOR men!

    That leaves us where we started. Animated dust monkeys!
    Funny thing is – science actually proves we really are just animated dust monkeys and we’d better get used to the consequences of how fragile that makes us.

  • Fran

    Karen,

    God is perfect in all his ways, including love, righteousness, power and justice. Every house has a builder, but God created all things. It’s man who created the evolution theory.

    It’s also man who is imperfect (but not for much longer) and who constantly makes mistakes…look what he has done through time to his fellowman (wars, racism, injustice; crime; threats of nuclear war); the animal kingdom (many are becoming extinct for animal parts such as tusks, skin and bones); and our planet (pollution to water, ground and air… there’s a new and large oil spill on California’s coast).

  • Karen

    No, Fran. Again, your god as described in your bible made plenty of very human mistakes – not surprising given that humans invented your god. Your god and your religion are just two more of our many man-made problems.

    Also, considering your god’s awful morals and judgement, such as blaming many for the actions of a few, I’m surprised that you can’t yet see through your delusion.

    Try some critical thinking for a change instead of just spouting your standard lines over and over that you’ve been fed by higher-ups in your religious group. It should do you some good.

  • Be Brave

    Obama, given to the USA by the anti-God hordes.

    “God gave them up to a depraved mind.”

    You guys wanted that. You got it.

    Not that Romney was any better a choice.

  • Be Brave

    JR,

    Only if you have a mind that works right. If not, then of course the pathetic attempts to justify atheism is seen over and over again. Interesting that “freethinkers” are anything but.

  • Karen

    Your posts are just BS Greg.

    1. In no way would a god need to sacrifice anything to “save” us.

    2. Your god isn’t loving or just by any reasonable analysis. He is claimed in your bible to have punished, actually killed, many people because of the actions of a few, among his many other unjust and awful actions that your bible describes. Like I said, your god should be incarcerated, if he existed. Fortunately, your god is just fiction.

    Do some critical thinking for a change. It might help you see through your religion delusion and cure yourself of that virus. Just do it.

  • Be Brave

    Try making something out of nothing and then get back to the panel with your emptiness.

    Nothing cannot make anything. Look around pal, there is a lot of something.

    Bullies may indeed rail and rant against Christians, but that is because they are bullies. Nothing more enlightened than that.

    Graham is the good guy. The LGBT bullies are the not good guys.

  • Karen

    Greg, your horrid creator god according to your fictions also gave innocent kids awful diseases and did various horrid mass murders.

    No thanks, Greg. You can keep your violent, murderous deity. I’m calling you and your religion out now for the sheer horror of the deeds that its god is claimed to have done, and for how ludicrous and false your Christian myths are.

  • Karen

    You are the bully here, coward.

  • Be Brave

    Atheist Max,

    You cannot ever prove that anything can come from nothing. It is simply impossible to “prove” atheism based on just what you can see. The even more complicated stuff mocks atheism even more intensely. Now, you may get all frothy and huffy facing the reality that some “thing” created the time space continuum we literally exist in, but that’s a problem you own not me.

    To the smallest particles we see order and machinery. If you deny that proof, all the posts ever posted won’t get your mind right on that.

    Just keep focusing on all of the bad stuff in the Bible and screaming that it is real and of course bad.

    That makes all the good stuff true too.

    It’s not surprising that the mind of an atheist focuses on the negative.

    Of course.

    As for me and my house we will reject animated dust people and choose reality.

  • Karen

    Since your god shows horrible judgement such as by brutally condemning many for the actions of a few according to your bible, we should actually hope for a lack of his input at the Supreme Court.

  • Be Brave

    Max,

    Your faith led you to choose atheism.

    Do the math.

  • @BB,

    “Something can’t come from nothing”

    And Gods don’t make anything unless you can prove they do.
    Where is your proof that a god made something?
    And show me how you know it was only one God and not 10!

  • Churchy McWorship

    “God did not destroy humans and the entire earth and say ‘just forget about them… what was I thinking about?’”

    According to your book, he DID destroy humans. All but 8 of them. But then he sent a dove and a rainbow, so it was ok. That kind of seems like the opposite of love.

    And before he puts ‘an end to all sickness, disease, old age and death.’ He pours out war, famine, earthquakes, darkness, and lots of death on the earth. Again, less than loving.

  • Churchy McWorship

    I was taught early on prayer is not supposed to be used as a wish list for a heavenly Santa Claus. Prayer is supposed to be communication and meditation on what one is to mindful about. Prayers for causes and healing and quitting smoking are empty. And I wasn’t even raised by Billy Graham.

    Of course, one-sided conversation with a being that has never once responded in any tangible way seems pretty empty too….

  • Churchy McWorship

    Oh Marta, those people in Nepal were probably all heathens that needed to be shown the power of the “true” and “loving?” God. Their prayers were to false idols.

    And also the gays probably caused that too.

    Graham is just a demagogue trying to live up to his father’s reputation.

  • @Be Brave,

    “Zombies walked for Christ to raise awareness” – (Matthew 27:52)

    “The Priest shall use Bird’s blood and magic chants
to clean your house of the wicked spirits I sent to you.” – Yahweh 
(Leviticus 14:33-57)
    
“Slaves, do as your masters command with all reverence…even those who are PERVERTED.” (1 Peter 2:18)

    You say you believe your religion in one tone of voice.
    But you reject most of it as utter garbage in another tone of voice.

    I can’t help but notice you don’t have ‘faith’ in hardly any of it.

  • Greg1

    Karen, you can run but you cannot hide. You will meet Jesus in eternity. The choice of whether to love Him, or to despise Him, is yours. But God has given us a dynamic planet, one that can be for our benefit, or our self destruction. Bacteria and viruses can be used to our benefit, or our downfall. And prayerful Biological Scientists have found very exciting ways to overcome deadly diseases by using what the Lord has given us on this earth. Again, if we cooperate, it is to our benefit, if we battle it, we lose.

  • Greg1

    Yes, Karen, God had to show primitive man the nature of his sin. And when it comes to primitive people, then primitive punishment is how you get their attention. It is like a parent spanking a child, as children only know one language at a very young age: do bad, get spanked. Now that man has become more intelligent, then God chooses more intellectual ways to get our attention, and he develops that intellectual approach through the Catholic Church: same gospel, modern delivery. But Karen, put yourselves in God’s shoes for a moment. If you created a human race, nurtured it, and developed it, with a Plan of Salvation of Eternal Love for all people should they choose to accept it, and then man told you that you were despicable, and spit in your face on a daily basis, how would you respond?

  • Greg1

    Karen: This is a really wild story of a time when God the Father visited a certain Sister Eugena back in 1935 in Italy. It might surprise you how full of Love the Father is; he is often presented as a stern God, but that’s not really the case. The words of the Father start on page 11 (toggle down to get past all the commentary).
    http://www.fatherspeaks.net/pdf/the_father_speaks_english_v-2005-02.pdf

  • JR

    Judging God is always a great idea, KK. Of course not believing in Him makes it easier for you. A stunted education helps, too.

  • Billysees

    Be Brave,

    ” …immutable truth… ”

    Not everything in scripture is immutable truth. Paul, in his honesty, says this about his own knowledge and understanding —

    1. …our knowledge is partial and incomplete…
    2. …we see things imperfectly…
    3. All that I know now is partial and incomplete…
    (1 Corinthians 13:9,12)

    He may even be speaking for scripture he didn’t write.

    That means the search for new and better ways of understanding a people or issues will never end.

    The continuing and modernity inclined work of the ‘Spirit’ is alive and well.

  • Pingback: Faculty in the News – May 2015 | Hartford Seminary()

  • JR

    You’re right, BB….

  • JR

    Not destroy,just silence them. PLEASE!

  • JR

    I know. They act so “enlightened” when they profess there is no God. They say there is no proof, yet cannot give proof of that assumption.
    They are unable or afraid to explain the existence of the Gospels….the eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ life…..so they dismiss them as myths. On what grounds can they do this? Who was this Jesus?
    So we have proof, and they have nothing. Except their vanity and self-indulgence.

  • Karen

    Greg, stop preaching your usual canned spiel about your sky monster “god” and try to actually think through what you have been challenged with for a change. You are the one who needs to do more thinking.

    Again, your evil “god” of your bible stories repeatedly is said to have punished many for the actions of a few. And with horrid punishments. Your god is not one worth following, and is clearly man-made. If it existed, it should be incarcerated. It is not worthy of worship.

    Think that through, for a change.

  • Karen

    As usual, Greg, all you have are vague old stories to reference. Your bible actually reveals the nature of your sky monster “god” quite clearly; he is a foul menace according to that book, one who has repeatedly slaughtered many as retribution for the actions of very few. As for your “primitive” punishment stupidity, you just delve further into nonsense with each post you make. In no way and at no time is it fair to punish many innocents, including children, for the actions of a few other people. That fictional deity of yours is not one that should be worshipped; if it existed, it should be in jail for its crimes against humanity.

    Seriously, Greg, stop and think for a change about what your Christian myths actually say about your sky monster god. That might help cure you of your religion.

  • Karen

    Present your proof for the existence of your particular god, JR, so that it can be examined openly.

  • Karen

    Again, JR, all you have to respond with are more insults. Says a lot about you, your religion, and your “case”.

  • Karen

    Actually, the bulk of voters for Obama was Christian.

  • Greg1

    Karen, the link I sent is neither old, nor a wild story. Try reading it, you might change your mind.