Vatican: Gay marriage victory in Ireland ‘a defeat for humanity’

Print More
St. Peter's Basilica in early morning light.

Photo courtesy of Andreas Tille, via Wikimedia Commons

St. Peter's Basilica in early morning light.

Active RNS subscribers and members can view this content by logging-in here.

The Vatican Secretary of State told Vatican Radio the resounding success of the vote for same sex marriage in Ireland was more than just "a defeat for Christian principles."

  • JR

    The expected and correct response from the Vatican on gay marriage. The Irish people should be ashamed of themselves. Guess the Gay mob is propagandizing in Germany now. May God stop this blitzkrieg of lies from multiplying. All gays can now move to Ireland.

  • So if God exists, he’s angry that people are behaving
    exactly the way he made them to behave?

    And what evidence exists for this insight?
    “Kill Homosexuals” – God (Leviticus 20:13)

    Isn’t life hard enough without this extra layer of hatred
    coming from the supposed creator.

    Religion just looks so ridiculous.
    Grown men in fancy hats and red capes carrying silver staffs they don’t need and pushing a hate-filled philosophy from ancient cave dwellers.

    Primitive hogwash.

  • Doc Anthony

    Glad to see the Vatican is speaking up, but there’s one member of that Vatican who is NOT speaking up, and his name is Pope Francis.

    He really didn’t say anything to the Irish Catholics prior to their historic election. He could have simply said out loud, “Please Vote No”. He didn’t even do that much. He’s still not saying anything himself, so far.

    Meanwhile, the US Supreme Court is only a couple months away from legalizing gay marriage from coast to coast, and Francis is still silent on THAT matter too.

    Previously, he has even allowed state-level American legislators to get away with publicly citing his “Who am I to judge” statement as a direct justification for voting for gay marriage. It doesn’t look promising.

    So, yes the Vatican is speaking up (sort of). But Pope Francis himself is staying WAY under the radar on this gay marriage mess, and I don’t think it’s an accident.

  • traditionalist

    No hate, Atheist, just a recognition of what is abundantly obvious in biology, sociology and anthropology.

  • Larry

    Scandals involving deliberately frustrating criminal investigations and obstructions of justice, baby selling, slave labor, unlawful imprisonment of people marry gets a nod from the church, or even apologies. Yet the recognition under civil law of the union of two consenting loving adults in a legally binding capacity is somehow “against humanity”?!?!

    Get some goddamn perspective! The good cardinal can go stuff himself.

    So far in the last week we have found out that many alleged self described Christians think gay marriage and civil liberties are worse than:

    -Rape camps for adolescent girls
    -Incest, sexual abuse of siblings and covering up the acts
    -deliberately avoiding addressing wide scale child abuse
    -slave labor
    -human trafficking

    Really, people?!?

  • Larry

    When Christians stop attacking the fundamentals of all 3 subjects in efforts to shoehorn their mythology, the can be taken seriously on them.

    According to the latest scientific thought on the subject is that homosexuality is both a population control and a method of freeing up siblings to care for family children.

    But why am I wasting that explanation on you?

    I doubt you care to hear it.

  • @Traditionalist:

    “No hate, Atheist…”

    Wrong.

    “what is abundantly obvious in biology, sociology and anthropology.”

    What is abundantly obvious is homosexuality is normal across all animal species, all social societies and through all of anthropological history!

    Furthermore, you claim a God is the creator of this abundantly obvious determination for Homosexuality across all of these creatures. To suggest such a God actually wants this to be stopped defies the point of its creation!

    Most of Religion can be reduced to: “Love for the Tribe” and “Hatred of the Other”

    Despicable, horrible, inhumane theories of life. Good riddance.

  • Doc Anthony

    Pope Francis, with all due respect, you need to decide right now, whether you are going to LEAD the Catholic Church or DEFEAT the Catholic Church. We’re running short on time here.

    Sure sure, you’ve won all the praises of the secular news media, the libbie politicians, and obviously the gay activists. Obama loves you, heh. But meanwhile, your church really IS in a state of pure crisis, and especially in America and Europe.

    And the crisis is clearly getting WORSE not better. (Kudos to the Irish Catholics for making that crystal clear.) Time is almost up, there’s no escaping it..

    So what are you going to do, Pope Francis? What are your orders, sir?

  • Cranmer

    It’s pretty clear to those leaders in each of the fields you mentioned that support for religion is slim to none. In fact, your twisted version of Christianity continues to attack religion with pre-historic mythologies that terrorize, hurt and envision a world of injustice and oppression. Really, science is clear on this — homosexuality exists and always has across species. It, in fact, has some very positive effects on society too. You can’t keep waving an anachronism and claiming its Christ…

  • JR

    In deference to the Holy Father, I would think that he would not have to speak out vehemently against gay marriage because the incredible sacrilege that it is should be obvious to even a stupid Catholic. Ignoring the world’s clamor for it may be his way of belittling it as a sort of atheistic mob attack on common morality. It will grow old in time, the legalization of it will be regretted in ways most of us cannot see at the moment. Like abortion, it is an act that defies natural laws. Those who are horrified at the Holocaust have no problem with abortion, likewise the illusion of a marriage will further chip away at the core of what true marriage has always been.

  • JR

    Dear God, “Kill the homosexual” already! Can you post that out of context one more time? You’re an atheist, an unbeliever in God, ergo an advocate for immorality, destruction of beauty, peace and the absolute truth of a Creator. We year ya’, and hooray that you are proud of it.

  • JR

    Your view is the myth, no evidence exists that God is not who He is. Mere men have concluded lame theories based only on their defective views.

  • ben in oakland

    2/3 of the word has the evidence in their holy scriptures to tell you that your version of god is false. And of course, we all know what fundelibangelists think of Catholicism. Can we just make it an even 3/4 of the world that disagrees with you?

  • Pretty much, although Vatican mistakes in modernizing their pastoral approach helped to pave the way for this defeat. Oops:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/cosmostheinlost/2015/05/26/ireland-legitimacy-an-ironic-correlation-between-clergy-abuse-gay-marriage/

  • @JR,

    “You’re an atheist, an unbeliever in God, ergo an advocate for immorality…”

    What ignorant nonsense!
    Where is the connection between “Atheist” and “Advocate for immorality”?

    Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told
    Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.

    My morality is vastly superior to your God’s morality.
    And I have proven it repeatedly.

    Your God says: “Rape is good” – GOD (Num:31:18)
    I say no.

    Your God says: “SEX SLAVERY IS GOOD” – GOD (Exodus 21:7)
    I say no.

    Your God says: “GENOCIDE IS A GOOD SOLUTION”- GOD (Exodus 23:23)
    I say no.

    Your God says: “Cut off your wife’s hand.” – GOD (DEUT. 25:11)
    I say no.

    Your God is a racist: “They are dogs, they are swine” – JESUS
    I say no!

    I SAY NO to your God’s immorality – because I am disgusted by such immorality.

    My morality is vastly superior.

  • JR

    You can make it whatever percentage you want, but show me the 1st Century writings that debunk the Gospels, and the reality of Jesus……..who changed history almost immediately. There are none. You’d think someone at the time would have tried to stop this lie from propagating since it enveloped the known world within 300 years.

  • “The Irish vote to allow same-sex marriage was a “defeat for humanity,” a senior Vatican official”

    I CAN’T get over this depraved institution.
    Has this church ever made the right call for what is ‘good’ for humanity?

    It supported every dictator.
    It opposes every liberty.
    It opposes birth control!
    It opposes all variations of sex except one!
    It opposes all sexual positions except one!
    It opposes masturbation – a tremendously important practice for sexual health!
    It supports wish-thinking.
    It supports superstitions.
    It engages in BLOOD SACRIFICE – GOOD GRIEF! HOW PRIMITIVE?

    And on and on!
    Primitive, cave-dwelling, knuckle-dragging theories from the infancy of our species THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO!

  • JD

    Haha oh please… the Vatican is more corrupt than FIFA! It’s nice that they still have an opinion on things though, gives me a laugh.

  • Greg1

    Yes, the pope is not blind to what is going on here. To the Church, though, this presents a great challenge, one that is first and foremost fought at the Spiritual Level. I’m sure he is in deep meditative prayer, asking for guidance on this one. Once he has his answer, we will begin to see how God has chosen to lead him through it. Hang in there, all will come soon enough.

  • manuel

    Dear Lord,

    Since the Irish vote is considered a defeat to humanity, do you mind to include me in the primates category?
    Much obliged. Thank you very much.

  • Ariana

    I gather you have never read The World’s Debt to the Catholic Church by Al Kresta? See http://krestaintheafternoon.blogspot.com/2011/06/worlds-debt-to-catholic-church.html
    You seem to have much anger in you. I think you have issues independent of any church but are lashing out pell mell at it.

  • Ariana

    You address “the Lord.” If you believe in such a being, where do you find out about it and its nature?

  • Greg1

    Just sincerely ask, and God will respond. But if you want a very very fast answer, ask Mary, the mother of the Lord. She gets favors from her Son even before the words are out of your mouth. Give her a try.

  • @Ariana,

    Yes – actually I did read “The World’s Debt to the Cathoilc Church” about 3 years ago. I was deeply unimpressed.
    Because you must take into account the Vatican Konkordat with Hitler in 1933 which was the first Nazi peace treaty – and the Pope blessed Hitler’s plan (and even blessed his book, “Mein Kampf”) knowing full well that Hitler planned to ‘eliminate’ the Jewish problem with a “final solution”.

    When Hitler met with the Pope he spoke of his commitment to Jesus Christ as a soldier against evil.
    “Bring to me those enemies of mine and Execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    “You seem to have much anger in you.”

    Well isn’t it about time?
    2000 years of a criminal enterprise is long enough.
    There is no sign of the God which they speak of – but lots of evidence they are interested in silencing ideas which run counter to their claims.

    The hateful bigotry of Christ must fade away.

  • ben in oakland

    Actually, max it was the second. Mussolini signed the first concordat with the Vatican in 1929. Strictly speaking, though, he wasn’t a Nazi.

    strictly speaking.

    The failure of italy’s government to function properly eventually led to Benito Mussolini, aka Il Douche, who promised to restore Italy to the greatness of its Roman heritage, to make the trains run on time, and to forget precisely how many mistresses he had while trumpeting “traditional morality” for everyone else.

    He garnered the support of the Catholic Church by promising to restore traditional values and not bother the church much, with the church returning the favor. Where have we heard that one before? Certainly not in the Republican Party of 21st-century America. The Nazis reached the same deal with the Church in the infamous Reichskonkordat, which led to the church’s quiescence in the face of the 12 years of horror that followed.

  • @Ben,

    Yes, your are correct about the 1929 peace treaty – but as you say he was not with the Nazis yet.
    Mussolini was first – and wasn’t it Mussolini who allowed the Vatican to become a country of its own? thereby giving it a diplomatic immunity in international affairs – a deal which is still recognized by the Church even though Mussolini is long gone!

    There is no way to quantify the infinity of evil which has been foisted on humanity through this regressive institution; the untold child rapes gone unpunished and denied, the untold millions who needlessly suffered guilt for such impossibly trivial infractions as lusting after someone or masturbating.

    There is no way to quantify so much evil. Even compulsory love and forgiveness destroys true love and forgiveness in one swoop! And needlessly victimizes those who cannot forgive an enemy like Osama bin laden – or Hitler!

    Endless, needless misery.

  • Marta

    I find it interesting that the title attributed this view to the Vatican as a whole, while it really was a particular Vatican official who said this. He’s certainly high-ranking and the words hurt, but there does seem to be difference going on here.

  • Manuel Giraldes

    Google?

  • Manuel Giraldes

    if Parolin is just “high-ranking”, where are the real generals?

  • Pingback: Vatican’s ‘Defeat for Humanity’ Statement Shows Church Officials Have Not Learned from the Irish Example | Bondings 2.0()

  • Greg1

    Marta the Vatican is collegial.

  • JR,

    The tantrum is coming from the Vatican – not me.
    Try reading the article.

  • JR

    What article?

  • JR

    Oh, we knew you were a primate long ago. Loved you in “Gorillas In the Mist”.

  • Larry

    JR, you are certainly in no position to say what is myth and what isn’t. Fundamentalists do not trust any method of objective fact finding unless they can pre-determine the conclusions. Their belief inspires them to be dishonest on all matters of fact if it doesn’t square with their dogma.

    The other point which has gone right over your head is all those other religions have the same level of proof for their belief as you do. Nothing at all except faith and emphatic self-serving statements.

  • Larry

    But not congenial. 🙂

  • Larry

    I am sure the half a million victims by the Franco regime would disagree with giving such thanks. The Church bought and paid for the Fascist regime in Spain.

  • Andrew

    JR I would ask you to clarify what you meant when you wrote “those who are horrified at the Holocaust have no problem with abortion, likewise the illusion of a marriage will further chip away at the core of what true marriage has always been.” It would almost seem that you are suggesting that everyone horrified by the Holocaust must somehow have no issue with abortion. Also, how would a gay couple being able to marry possibly chip away at the core of my wife’s & my 25 year marriage (or any other heterosexual marriage)? I am horrified by the Holocaust but I am not pro abortion. I am married but I do not understand how anyone can feel that my marriage, or anyone else’s, would be chipped away at by gays being given equal status in their relationships.

  • Be Brave

    “Shame?” That is impossible for people without a conscience.

    That a majority of any populace chooses an anti-Christian path is their choice to make. But Christians should stay devoted to Christ no matter whatever pop culture fad takes over the minds of many of the populace.

    This just shows how many people have sold out the Gospel and have no Christian conscience left to call upon. But how many followers did Jesus have left while he died on the Cross? Certainly not the Irish majority.

  • Be Brave

    The mind, warped by atheism, sees only the negative in life.

    Disturbing, but proven so easily time and time again. Just read what they write. Just watch how society is shaped by godless secularism.

  • Be Brave

    Larry,

    The DSM V has not replaced the Gospel to a Christian. You can live in whatever diseased morality that makes you warm and fuzzy, but we get to reject that and you.

    Christian have no desire to return to their vomit, nor live in it.

  • Be Brave

    Christian basher to the Max,

    I welcome your comparing homosexual humans to unreasoning beasts. Yup, that’ll work jut fine. But of course the whole latex phallus thing might need to go right?

    Since behavior in the animal kingdom gets its release in humanity, you have just asserted that there is no such thing as murder, ‘cuz ya know that happens everyday with beasts. And of course now there will be Gotta Go When You Gotta Go Equality where whenever someone wants to do a doodoo on a sidewalk that is a natural behavior “too.” Of course Christians will probably try to make some new law to have them gutter their behaviors even though. Then of course there will be the protests about Number Two a phobia.

    Now we know why so many great universities were founded by Christians. “The world and its ways?” Too beastly. Too ridiculous. Not enough serious thought.

    But hey, you go with that Max. And hatin’ Christians? Can’t say Jesus did warn us about 21st century atheism.

  • JR

    Huh? I stated that people are horrified at the truth of the Holocaust, yet many of those same people have no problem with abortion.
    Gay marriage redefines marriage in a most negative way. Over time, the married state will become no more important than “going steady”. Those of us who still believe in the responsibility of marriage, two becoming one, lifetime commitment, raising and accepting their children in a healthy environment, etc. will be of the minority opinion. Vows taken before God will be dishonored, and the financial benefits of getting married will become the driving force for couples to go through any type of wedding.
    Same sex marriage is not male/female marriage. It is a totally different union. Fat people cannot demand to be called thin, for if it was mandated “thin” would have no meaning. Thus,in time, marriage will lose its foundational meaning.

  • Larry

    “Those who are horrified at the Holocaust have no problem with abortion”

    So you are saying you are not horrified by the Holocaust and have a problem with abortion. Sounds about right. 🙂

    There are many things which are inappropriately labeled. Such as the term “morality” to describe discriminatory behavior, hypocrisy, defamation, turning a blind eye to crimes against others, and as an alleged support for personal prejudices. But that is what passes for moral thinking among people in the Vatican and most conservative Christians.

  • Larry

    People who claim religion forms the basis of their moral thinking don’t have a conscience (or deliberately don’t trust theirs).

    They outsource it to religious authority and arbitrary interpretations of poorly translated rules and stories. They don’t consult their conscience or consider the impact of their actions against others. All bad acts are permissible if you claim God is on your side.

    “But Christians should stay devoted to Christ no matter whatever pop culture fad takes over the minds of many of the populace.”

    Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.

    It would be nice if some Christians could stay devoted to Christ’s words above no matter whatever fad takes over the minds of the flock. But we know that doesn’t happen. 🙂

    This is why we need secularism. Something to ensure people behave with each other without the risk of sectarian discrimination.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    The trouble is that lies are the normal stock- in- trade of successful leftist agendas. Abortion was won in the courts by lies that even the Supreme Court later agreed were lies. But, according to the liberals on the Court, “settled law” even if gotten by lies counts for more than the truth .

  • Ben

    No, Deacon. Lies are the stock and trade of dishonest people such as you, on both sides of the political spectrum.

    You lost the abortion debate. Get over it and move on, as your vicious and bigoted extremist religion fades into history.

  • Larry,

    “Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

    Christianity talks out of 23 sides of Jesus’ mouth:

    “Hate them” – Jesus
    “Avoid them” – Paul
    “They are dogs” – Jesus
    “They are swine” – Jesus
    etc..

    There is no way for a person to truly follow Christianity and be a good person.

    “judge them unworthy…remove your peace!” – Jesus
    “Execute them” – JESUS

    The good Christians (like my parents) are cherry picking around the hateful rot – they still call themselves Christians, which is fine.
    But it is delusional.

  • TylerJ86

    You’re hilarious. The “gay mob” is just regular people like me who realize that not everybody fits into the little mold of normality you think God has created for us all. We see that people can’t change who they are but they can still be honest, good people, even if they are different. Trying to make them be something they’re not actually turns out to be a hurtful and destructive thing to do. So we’ve decided to leave you behind and make a happier world for everyone. You can join us and help bring about equality or you can sit back and be bitter, but it’s happening with or without you, so you’re just going to have to deal with it. Have a nice day friend.

  • TylerJ86

    To call someone’s struggle for equality a “pop culture fad” is incredibly demeaning and frankly ridiculous. What this shows is how many people have thankfully escaped the bias your religion has bestowed upon you. If you meet enough people and are open and honest and listen to their experiences you may come to realize that people aren’t turning away from anything. We’re turning towards humanity, and love. I am not gay but I will stand proudly for equality. We all deserve respect, and freedom from the rule of antiquated and destructive ideologies. Nothing bad is going to happen. Just live and let live.

  • TylerJ86

    Oh please. Warped by atheism? Is it also warped by my lack of belief in the Easter Bunny? I assure you my mental faculties continue to function pretty well exactly as they did when I believed in God. Instead of tethering yourself to this preconceived notion that all atheists must be especially negative or immoral why don’t you go out and engage some of them in conversation and find out what kind of people they actually are? I’m right here. Or you could just go on telling me how much you know about me based on one small irrelevant thing.

  • Danny

    Everyone is not a Christian or a believer in Monotheism. However..Love Wins!!!