God stepped in, says Debbie Dills, who spotted alleged S.C. killer (COMMENTARY)

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North Carolina florist Debbie Dills spotted the Charleston shooting suspect and let police to him but gives all credit to God.

North Carolina florist Debbie Dills spotted the Charleston shooting suspect and let police to him but gives all credit to God.

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(RNS) The woman who spotted, reported, and followed the vehicle driven by alleged Charleston, S.C., shooter Dylann Roof says God was working through her.

  • Ben in oakland

    I can’t even begin to fathom what the hell you are saying, Benyamin. But you are correct: if god had the slightest interest in anything, why didn’t he save those 9 people?

    I find it just amazing that this woman has elevated herself into something special– someone so special that god itself called her to get this guy nailed. Why is it that a certain class of so-called Christian always has to turn everything into a discussion about how awesome their particular, peculiar version of god is, and how special they are that their particular, peculiar version of god loves and admires and respects them as much as he does.

    This is a sickness.

  • Aeolus

    It would have been better if he had prevented the shooting altogether or maybe if he had spared those people’s lives. I guess omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent just isn’t enough these days.

  • Don’t waste time and effort

    Now we can understand why Jesus said to not cast pearls before swine.

    Christians need to keep these things within Christian circles.

    The world and its ways desire either a god of tyranny, the puppet master . . . or a god of licentiousness, allowing anything goes.

    They’ll never be able to comprehend Christian life.

    That’s obvious.

  • Larry

    Eff you Mr. Wax!

    How dare you use this incident for purposes of stumping for your employer the SBC. Instead of aggrandizing your own and making cheap talking points, why don’t you show concern for the victims and their church?

    Why say so much for some obscure eyewitness who happens to be white (as is the shooter) and say nothing about the church and victims who are black?

    BTW there is no point iin asking why God didn’t spare the victims. It is a ration question addressed to irrational belief.

  • Larry

    So you are admitting your Christian belief lacks any persuasive power beyond those preconditioned for it.

    That is pretty lazy thinking coming from people expecting the world to embrace Jesus and his message. Rather than address concerns, turn inwards to an echo chamber of useless confirmation.

    I guess this is why some Christians prefer scare tactics and coercion rather than impressing people with good deeds and compassion.

  • ben in oakland

    Actually, it is not the world and its ways that demand a god of tyranny. It is conservative Christians that demand this– a god who loves you so much that he spends his time yanking back your covers in the middle of the night and yelling “Gotcha!”. A god so obsessed with sex– just like so many of his conservative followers– that he will punish millions of innocent people because he doesn’t like what some people are doing with their dangly bits. (I’m talking to YOU, Dan cathy, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and a host of others.)

    but he has no interest in saving 6 million of his chosen people from Christianity professing politicians and soldiers.

    As for a god of licentiousness? Perhaps we should look at divorce rates for conservative Christians, or annulments for staunch catholics with two children. Right, Mr. Schubert? Or we can duggar repeatedly, have our parents cover it up, ask god for forgiveness, and be absolutely certain that we have been forgiven.

    it’s a MIRACLE!

  • Dean (@TheDudeInSF)

    I guess God wasn’t at the church that night? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Paula

    I am sure that it felt miraculous to Dill — when in the moments of praying for the families she suddenly focused on a car and a driver who turned out to be the shooter. But the outsized piety that screams “look at me” invites people’s skepticism and hard questions as well.. One thinks of Mary, Jesus’ mother who also experienced something which miraculous but “kept these things and pondered them in her heart,” she didn’t turn them into billboard advertising. And she certainly didn’t write a book or go on tv to talk about her visitation.

    I wonder if Dill is asking herself other questions. Will she become this young man’s friend, even while he is rightly prosecuted. What else does it mean that she focused on him.

  • ben in oakland

    “This God is active in the world, restraining evil and unleashing good, often through ordinary followers of Jesus who trust him and dedicate themselves to his will.”

    What a load of self-serving bull hockey. What evil is he restraining? Not radical islam, racism, over-population leading to the destruction of our planet, nuclear weapons, starvation, extinctions, war, war in his name, hatred in his name, RCC child abuse, and on and on and on. He doesn’t even seen to have an interest in stopping the mythical evil of mythical Big Gay, mythical abortion evil, mythical not believing that mythical Jesus died for your mythical sins.

    What good does he unleash? When I, and atheist, donate $50 to a secular charity interested in saving children from starvation, while his good Christian (TM) followers spend $40 million fighting my marriage, I fail to see what good he is unleashing. This god can’t even unleash a favorable anti-gay marriage decision.

    Self serving doesn’t begin to…

  • Garson Abuita

    The minute I saw Dills was doing national interviews the day not even 24 hours later rubbed me the wrong way. Not because she is a Christian, but because tragedies like this have been used for profit in the past. You will recall the story of Cassie Bernall z”l, one of the victims of the Columbine massacre. Initial reports stated that one of the killers asked her if she believed in God and when she said yes, he shot her. This led to a well-selling book by her mother and several Christian pop songs, all suggesting her as a latter-day martyr. In fact, the exchange never happened. I understand that stories like Dills’ are part of evangelism, literally spreading the good news of the Christian message, but color me suspicious.

  • ben in oakland

    My point exactly, better expressed.

  • Dean (@TheDudeInSF)

    I guess it’s easier for God to direct a female driver than it is for him to enter the heart (while in church) of a would be killer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • DougSlug

    How arrogant to claim that god picked you among all others to perform some special task. This is a kind of narcissism, up there alongside posting your every move on FaceBook or Twitter and every bit as annoying.

    How about a little humility and call it what it really was: A concerned, conscientious and, most importantly, observant person who was in the right place at the right time. Unfortunately, a person with similar traits was not available at the right place and time to stop the crime itself. These are both random situations with no involvement of any “god”.

  • Ben in oakland

    Well, not to worry. The Huckster is currently claiming that if only someone had to have a gun, this whole thing could’ve been stopped in its tracks. That’s the proper, conservative, bible believing Christian answer to violence: more violence in the name of the Second Amendment, and not a criticism of lingering racism.

    Apparently, God’s answer to violence is not something as simple as making the gun not work, getting the shooter busted for a broken tail light, change in the heart of the shooter because you know Jesus, or a Well aimed meteor. That would be just too simple.

    Maybe, these good Christians were not carrying guns because they don’t want to kill anybody, especially at church. What the huckster is doing here is actually blaming the victims for not going to church armed.

    This is the sickness of conservative Christianity, in a polygamous marriage with racism, violence, and a culture that elevates guns above civilized behavior and meaningful laws.

  • Larry

    Even worse it represents a whitewashing of the incident.

    Putting the attention and media emphasis on an unambiguously racially motivated attack on a white bystander rather than the black victims. As if to give the incident a “more friendly face” for Caucasian viewers.

  • Don’t waste time and effort

    Well sir,

    You produce the prime example for proving what and why Jesus said what he said.,

  • Don’t waste time and effort

    Yours must be the same kind of voice and taunts Jesus heard from the cross.

    This is like watching it all play out again.

  • Don’t waste time and effort

    I’m remembering that your kind 20 or so centuries back, hated Jesus in the same manner. History ignored and history repeated.

  • Larry

    Hey DWTE, you might have a better chance of spreading your Christian beliefs (and respect for them) by not acting like an obnoxious passive aggressive nabob.

    I am pretty sure Jesus didn’t say very much about hurling insults and engaging petty attacks in his name. You do him and your belief no favors by acting in such a petulant manner. 🙂

  • ben in oakland

    Personally, Mr. Timewaster, I wouldn’t think to taunt anyone who is being tortured to death. I wouldn’t watch it as entertainment, I wouldn’t support a government that thinks this method of education is a good idea.

    I also don’t support the idea that we need more guns and less control over them. I think that people who say “God said it. I believe it. That settles it.” are refusing to use the brains and moral sense that they are certain their god must have endowed them with. I don’t support people who believe that their particular, peculiar version of god loves them so much– i.e., they are so vain and ego driven– that he would happily bestow his extra special favor upon them while watching nine innocents engaged in worshipping him get murdered.

    but that’s just me. Obviously, it’s not you.

  • ben in oakland

    @ Waste:

    Your first assumption is wrong: that I hate Jesus. I have no issues with Jesus. I’m just not interested in what Christianity claims to be the truth about the god who loves us so much.

    I do have an issue with dominionist and theocratic Christianity, it’s practitioners, and its apologists.

    but that’s just me.

    And you’re not remembering anything from 20 centuries back.

  • ben in oakland

    And HERE is the kicker in all of this:

    From KOS:

    “Charles Cotton, a “dedicated” board member of the NRA—perhaps tiring of his political soul mates’ attempts to shift the blame from racism to religious intolerance for the mass murder—decided to weigh in with his own explanation for who was really to blame for this horrific act of domestic terrorism: One of the murder victims. In a discussion on TexasCHLforum, it is pointed out that one of the victims was State Senator Clementa Pinckney. Said Cotton of the murdered public servant and pastor of the church:

    And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”

    Out obsession with guns is a sickness. The conservative Christian right and the rabid republican right seems to be hip deep in support of our gun sickness. throughiout the south,.

  • I’ll waste time and effort


    While we shouldn’t be dredging up gun control fanaticism at this time, it WAS the Second Amendment that secured for us the Articles in the Constitution and the First Amendment et al.

    Governments that want their citizens disarmed and unarmed want to rule them and not govern them. Anti-Second Amendment people are scary. More zombie than citizen.

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  • larry

    Stop trying to crucify yourself DWTE. Its ridiculous, melodramatic and its impossible to drive that last nail in.

  • larry

    You mean people who make rational arguments against ridiculously easy access to lethal weapons. Cars and box cutters have more regulation than firearms.

    Most NRA arguments are ridiculous nonsense. They even encourage irresponsible behavior in firearms ownership.

    Nobody can point to a single spree killing ended by citizens with carry permits. If the idiot conservatives touting “fiscal responsibility” hadn’t cut back on public services like police departments and emergency hotlines, there wouldn’t be so many people depending on firearms for personal protection. Firearms most people store in unsafe conditions and are seldom proficient in using.

    The 2nd Amendment is no more exempt from restrictions for the sake of public safety than the 1st Amendment is. Your freedom of speech and religious belief is more restricted than your right to bear arms. Give me a break.

  • Doc Anthony

    Hey, with due respect, the lady publicly gave ALL the credit to “God alone”, Mr. Atheist Dude. She didn’t take one penny of it for herself.

    You can hate on her if you want to, but please understand that you got nuthin’ to say that can even touch her humble testimony.

  • Doc Anthony

    So what’s your preventative solution, King? Let’s hear it. People around here are wanting to act silly because this ordinary woman is humbly testifying to God sovereignly and suddenly using her to help put a major racist sicko outta commission.

    So maybe some human-based solutions will make the critics to feel better. Got any?

  • Doc Anthony

    Angry, Larry? Got another divine splinter stuck in your atheism again, yes ??

  • Doc Anthony

    Your last sentence betrays your own lack of humility. Giving all the credit to “random situations”, and not even granting the providential God of the Bible even one penny of credit for providing “a concerned, conscientious and, most importantly, observant person who was in the right place at the right time.”

    Sheesh. I tell you the truth sir, Atheism is a flat out arrogant MESS on steroids !!!

  • Doc Anthony

    When the sovereign and providential God uses YOU folks to unexpectedly snag a big-time sicko racist murderer, then YOU can model for all of us “the correct way” to publicly give the credit to God for using you. Please show us, definitely show us all, how it’s properly done — when that time comes.

    Until then, your criticism, your hard feelings, your hatred of her, ain’t even touching her. Stew and fume and grumble all you want, it doesn’t mean a thing. She’s giving all the credit to God, not a penny to herself, and she’s doing it HER way since it’s HER testimony of God at work.

  • Be Brave


    Only the LGBT “community” labels itself by the preferred sex acts of its members. Going so far as to define three of its groups exclusively by the sexual behavior they engage in. Or dream of engaging in exclusively. How fascinating that you try subterfuge to hide that immutable fact.

  • Be Brave


    It is noted that even an activist homosexual like yourself can see that the LGBT issue is on the other side (the worldly side) of the Biblical pronouncements of sexuality and marriage. Of course you are just coming around to facing the truth of the matter. Now, stop insulting and denigrating Christians that hold to marriage the way Jesus taught it: man and woman/husband and wife. The Christians following the teachings of Jesus are the good guys. Um, er, uh, good persons.

  • Be Brave


    It was “black Christians” that overwhelmingly supported the sensible position of Prop 8. You know, “conservative Christians.” Which of course every single Apostle would be considered. And why they were persecuted as well.

    My how history is repeating itself.

    The duped and ignorant forgetting it always returning to the vomit of it all.

    Or maybe you didn’t know that Nero was pro gay marriage. His gay marriages. See how things never change. Those who are Christians and those that hate them have been on their well-defined sides since The Church began. But of course there have always been even worse kinds of people claiming they were Christians, cruising the Church, while actually promoting anti-Christian ways. Matthew Vines comes quickly to mind:

    “For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality . . . ” – Jude

  • Be Brave


    “theocratic Christianity?”

    That’s like saying “wet water.”

    Look you hate Christians. Stand your ground and prove why your hate is supported. Many tyrannical people and movements have been on your side of history. You (Larry, Max) seem more the Marquis de Sade style of person. Very well represented in history and of course the present as well. You all would have marched well in the French Revolution.

    As you can see by the way the Christians are reacting to the murders of their “brothers and sisters in the faith,” in SC, they are acting like the Apostles.

    That the anti-Christians in the Democratic party are seizing the crisis to try to worm gun control into the tragedy is sickening and diseased thinking. But to control the masses, a leftist mindset above all else, one new this was coming.

  • Be Brave

    Did the killer have an NRA membership card on him when he fired?

    Your idiocy is typical of the ignorant. NRA members are obeying the law and the constitution in every way possible.

    And of course that is going to incense the leftists. America is a loathsome place to them. And of course in need of being “fundamentally transformed.”

    Eh hem.

    Welcome in the beast. For he is a liberal-progressive in the Democratic party.

    (But then again, he may be an anti-union Republican when turning to his other face.)

    But the consistent nature of evil is to control the populace. The rich and the licentious liberal are both condemned by the New Testament. And one thing about the libs of today, they are rich and controlling.

  • Be Brave

    Mr Effort,

    Well said.

    But real history, Christian or otherwise, is repugnant to the kinds of people you are addressing. This is all about “redefining” things in their own image to them.

  • Mr. Timewaster per Ben

    The irony of President Obama, Mrs. Clinton and the rest of the anti-Constitution fanatics of gun control (Democrats one and all), is that gun stores across the United States of America will be filled with African Americans, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, naturalized european Americans, Green Card holding legal aliens, Muslims, Hindu’s Budhists, etc., etc., etc., and of course a few White People too, flooding those gun stores buying handguns and rifles en masse.

    While this is hardly the time to contend against the gun control fanatics, (or maybe it is) it is time to make sure that their desires to disarm decent, law-abiding, honest people is showcased for the tyranny and totalitarian rule that it is.

  • Karen

    Christian god, who according to the bible has killed many innocents because of the actions of a few other people, seems a whole lot angrier, and more violent, than Larry does.

  • Karen

    Again, your god is more murderous and villainous than even the heinous being who fired the shots.

  • Karen

    Christian god was also a heinous, vicious killer, according to your bible.

  • Karen

    Enough with the ad hominems. According to the bible, the Christian god is the most vicious killer of innocent people ever.

  • Karen

    It’s remarkable how little shooting is done by people without a gun.

    Obama gets this right: America is still a backward nation on gun control. More advanced nations e.g. some in Europe don’t have the per capita gun murders nor mass murder gun incident frequency that we have.

    Enough is enough. It’s time for strict new gun control.

  • Tayla Raymond

    Its funny how the man who rewrote the great bible had many male lovers

  • Ted

    These nine have not died in vain. Their lives are delivering a powerfully resonating message.

    Martyrdom has a long and powerful history in the church, and make no mistake: the Charleston Nine are holy martyrs in the struggle for racial justice and peace.

  • Ted

    It takes an atheist, like Stalin or Mao, to maim and murder at truly epic scale. Oh, there has been plenty of Christian-caused murder, too. But at some point “thou shalt not kill” is remembered. Sadly, atheists have no such moral compass, only self interest, whether writ large or small.

  • Ted

    LOL. “Biblical marriage” means polygamy, and a whole lot more, too. Fundies need to wake up and realize what a weak argument it is to pretend “one man and one woman” is the only committed relationship affirmed by the Bible. You’re making yourself look foolish with your ham-fisted proof texting, and rapidly losing credibility, especially with your kids.

  • Ted

    True, if you’re too dim to understand allegory, and mistake the Bible for a factual document.

  • Susan

    No, those killings were not done because of any premise of atheism. However, the bible has plain instructions to kill, and Christian god really is put forward in the bible as the most vicious killer of all, especially of innocents.

  • Susan

    It’s certainly true that the bible isn’t a place to look for facts. Ted, you have that part right. What’s odd though is that Christian god can’t make clear which of his claimed killings were allegorical; many Christian sects have rather differing interpretations of that. In many parts though, the violent, murderous nature of Christian god is very clear.

  • GOD

    I AM God.
    My powers are infinite.

    I don’t involve myself in preventing crimes or or solving them. You are completely on your own. But I insist you do as your human pastors tell you – You must worship me and give them money or you go to Hell.

    I even send tornadoes and hurricanes at those who worship me
    just to mess with all your heads.

    I created you to be fearful and to keep guessing my next move.
    BECAUSE it is all about ME and your Pastors who work for me.
    Can’t wait to watch more horrors.

    What I love about humans is you always give me a pass!
    That is why I taught you about forgiveness!

    Your one and only
    personal, invisible, slippery, unprovable God

  • GOD


    White Supremacy is my favorite RELIGION.
    I’m God. I know these things.

  • GOD

    @Tim J,

    “God is the one that changes hearts.”

    No. I ignore humanity completely.
    You need to look at the record:

    I don’t answer prayers. So why would I change hearts?
    I don’t intercede when crimes are happening.

    I watch crimes for the same reason you watch the Sopranos and Breaking Bad – human suffering is my entertainment.

    Love (if that is what you want to call it),

  • “It was God who made this happen,” she told CNN. “God heard the prayers of those people.”

    Such a depraved philosophy and theory of reality.

    “God heard…?”
    Why didn’t God show up before it happened? Did he not know?

    It is very unlikely that any God of any kind exists.
    This ridiculous, primitive nonsense which looks to a god to intercede and affect outcomes is one of the most self destructive, dangerous diversions humanity ever invented.

    Even if a God exists it is obvious that he is absolutely helpless and cannot do anything without humanity doing it for him.

    Shouldn’t that be a bright red flag forcing you to ask questions??
    If God exists he is useless to all of us and he cares nothing
    for those who worship him.

  • Larry

    I am surprised you are not annoyed at this little whitewashing and appropriation of this tragedy. One that affected black Christians like yourself. Why am I showing more concern for the voice of the victims than you are?

  • Me

    This woman is either totally brainwashed or flat-out dumb. God must have missed the train before the massacre? 🙁

  • Ben in oakland

    Normally, I can’t be bothered to respond to you. You Are far too poisoned by both your homohatred and poisonous religious belief. However, this one time I will.

    Your claims that I hate Christians would come as a very Big surprise to my many Christian friends, including the minister that married us, and anyone who knows me.

    Which you obviously don’t.

    But for the record, I still want you to keep spewing your bile. I refuse to believe that the bulk of humanity is anything like you. I may be wrong about that, but I don’t think so. I’d like to think that every time you spew, another decent, kind, compassionate person sees anti-gay rhetoric for what it is.

    No, I don’t hate Christians. That’s just your fantasy. I don’t even hate you, as much as it thrills you to think that I do. Personally, I think your comments about worming gun-control into the conversation are highly revealing.

  • dmj76

    How many unbelievers do you know? Are they all wicked people? Do you try to learn more about them, and find out how they manage to live with unbelief? Most of the believers I know are decent people. The point is, so are the unbelievers.

  • Be Brve


    People with your worldview don’t show any concern for Christians no matter what happens to them. You only try to ease the agony in your torn soul by tying to claim you are better than Christians.

    We are shattered and in touch with our brother’s and sisters through one faith and one Church. We are all going to be in Church and feeling each others pain and of course our hope in joy you can never understand. You and your side can only look at us and mock and accuse and try ways to make us hate you so that you can feel something.

    I pity you all so.

  • Be Brave

    That comment, such disgusting filth, it is what we have left of the world and its ways.

    Dean, your shattered and repugnant soul is what we pray that we can escape in ours every single day.

    I pity your psyche. So damaged that it needs to feel something in hurting others.

  • Larry

    I am sure that was a stiring comment apropos of the issue and a sparkling rebuttal to my statement. But I am not going ever going to pay attention to what you say. Your opinions are not worth taking the time to read.

  • Since this has become a fight over God, here is a pertinent message: http://thelastwhy.ca/poems/2011/1/12/gods-message.html

  • Be Brave

    Obama and his ilk have the rule of the populace as their dream. Disarming the populace makes their tyranny happen. Luckily the founders of the USA were ethical enough to recognize that tyrants such as any common liberal and progressive, or some right-wing corporate freak, will need to be opposed by an armed and of course free populace.

    But for whatever weird sickness dwells in the tortured mind of a urban democrat, they seem to be bent towards being ruled by tyrants.

    Not surprising really.

  • Be Brave

    Geez Max,

    You must be the happiest person on these reply posts to see what happened to all of those Christians you denigrate day after day.

  • Be Brave

    I think her mindset may be misplaced. But if she were brainwashed, she would be an atheist.

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  • BB,

    You sound like someone with Stockholm Syndrome – you love a sadistic slave master. And you blame those who point it out.

  • dmj76


    She showed courage in following an armed psychopath.

    Give her credit for that.

  • Me

    I’m not an atheist, I’m agnostic which means I don’t pretend to know the unknowable. However, people who call everyone who doesn’t believe in their specific version of a most powerful entity an “atheist” surely are hypnotized.

  • Me

    What a break she was better friends with God than the preachers who got killed. ?

  • dmj76

    Well done, thanks

    I wonder if Max would appreciate your work.

    best wishes

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  • larry

    Well I have to say this, the hardest thing for atheists to do when dealing with various peccadillos and ridiculous parts of scriptures is discussing them with someone who isn’t a fundamentalist wackadoodle. People who are reasonable enough in their belief and who understand the rational limitations of their scripture. Ones willing to say “its allegory”, “that doesn’t work in a modern society anymore”, or ‘I just have faith”.

    Of course those types of people seldom run afoul of atheists as well so its rare the two meet. Non-Fundamentalist believers are usually willing to “live and let live” or play nice with those of other beliefs..

  • Agnostic means “I don’t know if a god exists”
    Atheist means “I don’t believe a god exists”

    If you are unsure if a god exists you should be ready to admit you don’t really believe in one. Atheism is non-belief. Atheism is not a claim that gods are impossible.

    Atheism is open-minded.
    Atheism leaves the possibility that a god might exist if one can be shown or demonstrated to exist by any reasonable method. One has not yet been devised as far as I can tell.

  • Doug,

    You are pointing to a message written by and imagined by men.
    It is not a message from a god.

    I don’t mind speculative ideas and notions about what god might or might not say or do. As long as they are identified as speculations.
    If a “Message from God” is written by a man it is not a message from a god. And if it is not broadcast to all men and women by that God in a universally convincing way, it is merely hear-say.

  • I can’t give her any credit for anything because obviously God is taking all the credit for himself. She has constructed herself into a corner – she is a puppet in a vacuous, meaningless play where the bad guy (god) arranges EVIL to occur only so the same bad guy (god) can facilitate the rescue.

    Her vision of reality is depraved.

  • Me

    It’s hard to speculate if any “god” exists with that name and its definitions so numerous and ambiguous. It’s easy to disbelieve in illogical and impossible entities though and the bible’s almighty version is just that.

  • Using your imagination to force God to exist in your mind
    is bad for you and everyone around you.

    Using your imaginary life-hating, slave-loving god to tell other people
    what is wrong with them
    is a bigoted, delusional, hateful, uncivilized thing to do.

    Religion is just a public nuisance like smoking and drugs.
    It should be conducted privately, if at all – and it should be frowned upon by the rest of society.

    “Execute my enemies in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    Primitive, superstitious nonsense.

  • DougSlug

    “Atheism is a flat out arrogant MESS on steroids !!!”

    Multiple exclamation points notwithstanding, that’s pretty much what the atheists say about the religious, too. Trouble is, I’m confident history has shown us that religion has caused much more of a mess than atheism ever has, or will.

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