Southern Baptist leader Russell Moore to interview Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio at evangelical rally

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Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission President Russell Moore, right, leads a June 9, 2014, panel discussion as David Platt, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's International Mission Board, listens. RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks

RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks

Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission President Russell Moore, right, leads a June 9, 2014, panel discussion as David Platt, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's International Mission Board, listens. RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks

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(RNS) The unusual event is being seen as both a major effort by Bush to reach out to Christian conservatives -- a key constituency Bush has sometimes struggled to win over -- and by evangelicals to reassert their political influence during a time of landmark social change.

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  • Bernardo

    Christians should burn their copies of the NT for the 2000 year old falsehoods that has been perpetuated on them by popes, bishops, priests, ministers and evangelicals. And Jews should burn their copies of the OT/Torah for the 6000 year old falsehoods.

    Muslims should burn their copies of the koran for the 1400 year old falsehoods that is pulled on them daily by the imams and ayatollahs.

  • Cranmer

    I hope they continue to dig an even bigger hole for Evangelical religion — a perversion of Christianity that needs to go extinct.

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  • ben in oakland

    Pretty silly. Just more of the True Christian fallacy.

  • There is something very unsettling about all this. Approval for the presidency is being requested of the leader of the majority religion in this country. This seems more Iranian than American.

    Christians need to seriously step back from partisan politics. Even issue advocacy wreaks of political gamesmanship. Either that or the GOP (God’s Own Party) needs to stop soliciting the approval of conservative Christian leaders.

    Were Moore true to his convictions his preference would probably be Huckabee, His absence is even more proof that he is playing political games.

  • Garson Abuita

    Yes, book burning, that’s worked so well in the past. Especially burning the Torah, because it’s not like that has any troubling historical allusions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning

  • Jack

    So you’re a book burner, Bernardo. What a surprise.

    You’d have fit in well with the last century’s Marxist and Fascist totalitarian regimes, which burned not just books, including Bibles, but people.

    The result was 150 million people dead, more than any other century and more than all the people killed in prior wars waged on religion’s name.

  • Jack

    Cranmer, it’s Orwellian to believe that interpreting written communication in accordance with the intent of the communicators is somehow a “perversion” of what’s being communicated.

  • Jack

    David, do you protest when the religious left does the same thing?

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  • Larry

    Does what?

    When was the last time you saw a Democratic candidate seek clerical endorsement? The pandering to the religious “kingmakers” among the GOP is rather unique.

    Frankly its a waste of time. Candidates who pander to the religious right tend to either cancel each other out in their theocratic zeal or suffer from foot in mouth disease.

    The religious right will vote for any Republican who survives the primary anyway. It will usually be the one who barely takes notice of religious types.

  • Cranmer

    What are you talking about? Firstly you make it sound as thought the Bible was written by aliens. Mostly of course, I’m not surprised that you believe the Bible can be “interpreted” in one, concise way that accords with God’s intent. But the bible wasn’t written by God, it was written by people in different times and places. There’s no single way to interpret a set of books/writings that are contradictory and include multiple authors.

  • Cranmer

    And you misused “Orwellian.” Give it another try or are you going to screed about ‘religious liberty?’

  • Fran

    Yes, Christians should not get involved in politics at all, since Jesus, his disciples, apostles and followers did not, and neither did first-century Christians (John 6:15; 18:36); The History of the Christian Religion and Church During the First Three Centuries,” (New York, 1848, Augustus Neander, p. 168); “On the Road to Civilization, A World History,” (Philadelphia, 1937), A. Heckman and J. Sigman, pp. 237, 238).

    Instead, Christians should promote and stand for God’s kingdom or heavenly government (Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 11:1-9) as the only hope for mankind on earth (Matt. 4:17). It will soon put an end to all terrible conditions and wicked ones on earth (Psalm 37:10,11) and provide grand blessings to all meek ones during its millennial rule (Rev. 21:3,4).

  • Jack

    Cramner, my response assumes nothing about God or no God, so nice try. Nor does it assume that one writer penned it.

    It simply says that to the extent that the evangelical approach to biblical interpretation is the historical-grammatical approach — which is the same approach that human beings normally use when interpreting each others’ communications — it is the correct approach.

  • Jack

    “Orwellian” fits because to call evangelical Christianity a “perversion” of Christianity is like calling “original intent” a perversion of the Constitution. One can take issue with a plain and literal interpretation of a thing on other grounds, but to call such an interpretation a “perversion” is to stand reality on its head.

  • Jack

    I guess you forgot about Jesse Jackson, and, in New York City, Al Sharpton, a la Mayor de Blasio, the simpleton who runs NYC for now. But to the extent that Democrats are less likely to seek clerical endorsements, that’s simply a function of the fact that liberal churches are not exactly in their growth phase, and thus there’s little in it for Democratic candidates.

  • Jack

    Fran, to the extent that Christians aren’t involved, they will answer one day for it. God is concerned with every aspect of human life, including government, a key institution which God ordained. Christians who live in a society in which the people choose their government are in a unique position to participate and make a difference in every arena. To throw away that opportunity by not voting is irresponsible and calloused.

  • Larry

    You named two members of clergy, The REVEREND Jesse Jackson and The REVEREND Al Sharpton and just named dropped the Mayor of NYC (who did little to nothing to appeal to religious voters) but said nothing about what they do.

    Democrats are not nearly as craven for appealing to religious voters as the Republicans. They are not seeking endorsements from entire sects or going to their leaders as a matter of course.

    ” there’s little in it for Democratic candidates”

    So your whole “what about the left?” thing was just your usual partisan bullcrap. OK.

  • Larry

    Linking one’s political position to their sectarian religious belief is tasteless to say the least. It cheapens the authority of religious figures by reducing them to petty politicking. When your church acts like a PAC, it is less likely to be concerned with spiritual issues.

  • Jack

    Larry, you’re the one who brought up Democrats vs. Republicans and were cheerleading for one over the other. That is partisanship. I talk about ideas and beliefs — the left vs. everyone else, for example.

    Apparently you don’t know the difference between a debate about ideas and beliefs vs. a partisan battle. Partisanship is shallow because it’s “my party, right or wrong.” But someone who believes in actual ideas and standards will hold all parties to those ideas and standards.

  • Jack

    Larry, that’s not what I was referring to with Fran. Fran is saying that God wants believers to have nothing to do with human government, including voting. I was saying that if you accept the premise that government is a God-created institution, then if we live in a society where the people elect their government, believers dishonor God if they fail to participate.

  • Fran

    Jack,

    Romans 13:1, 5-7 says we need to be in subjection to the superior authorities or governmental rulers because there is no authority except by God. No government could exist without God’s permission, while he allows them to exist. Christians have shown them respect because of the office they occupy.

    But, we are now living in the last days of a wicked era (Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21), the time when God’s kingdom or government will intervene in man’s affairs, put an end to all human governments, and rule in their place (Daniel 2:44).

    Armageddon (Rev. 16:14,16) will be a war between God and the “kings of the entire inhabited earth.” Man’s political rulers will oppose God and his kingdom by global actions vs. God’s servants, who support his kingdom.

    Many will survive that war, and the great tribulation coming before it, as promised at Rev. 7:9,10, 14.

    Which government will everyone on earth make a final stand for? My choice is and always will be God’s.

  • larry

    No Jack, you asked about protesting “when the left does the same thing?”

    You always try to use ad hominem attacks on people you consider “Lefties” and bring partisanship into plenty of discussions in an unnecessary way.

    “But someone who believes in actual ideas and standards will hold all parties to those ideas and standards.”

    But you are not one of them. Never have been.

  • Larry

    Discussion aside, why do you bother responding to Fran?
    She just makes the same cut and paste posts with every subject. 🙂

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  • Bob

    Don’t forget what an enthusiastic Christian Hitler was, hey Jacko.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    No, it doesn’t fit at all Jack. And it’s funny how your “god” can’t make a modern appearance to bring some clarity to what you crazy Christian kooks can’t agree on amongst yourselves.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Jack

    Nice try, Bob, but Hitler’s belief system denied the basic doctrines of Christianity, including: (1) salvation by grace through faith (2) Christ born of a Jewish mother (3) the universal fallenness of humanity and possession of a sin nature (4) the inability of any person to be right with God or fellow human beings by their own efforts or works (5) the universal need for repentance and reconciliation with God (6) the call of every Christian to die to self, surrender their will to God alone, and take up their cross and follow Christ.

    Even when Hitler spoke of Christ, his view was completely heretical….closest to the Gnostic heresy, and if he were living in the Middle Ages, he could have been burned at the stake for it.

  • Jack

    That’s a classic non sequitur, Bob…..you didn’t address the issue because you can’t.

  • Jack

    Larry, left and right are ideological, not partisan terms. Again, partisanship is “my party, correct or incorrect.” Ideological contests are about ideas that transcend party. People who care about ideas will align with a party that is closest to them, and will criticize that party when it compromises or diverges from them. But partisans will make all sorts of silly excuses for such departures and will stick with their party no matter what, while painting the other party as evil no matter what.

  • Jack

    Fran, if you accept your own premise that believers, however you choose to define them, are the light and salt of the earth, you cannot justify their withdrawal from the culture and the politics of a nation, especially when that nation gives every registered citizen the right to vote and actually be salt and light in people’s lives, and even, on some issues (war, for example), between life and death.

    This is a classic sin of omission that, when enough men and women of conscience follow suit, has a devastating effect on other human beings.

    I can make a very strong argument that America is a far worse place precisely because people like you, not just Jehovah’s Witnesses but millions of evangelicals, have withdrawn from normal life for the better part of a century.

    The idea of rigid separation from culture and politics violates the injunction to be in the world, though not of it.

  • Jack

    Bob, that’s a silly question borne out of biblical illiteracy.

    First off, the climactic battle of Armageddon in Revelation is not uniquely Christian, but comes right out of the writings of the Hebrew prophets in the Old Testaments about the future. All of them speak of a future reign on earth of a Messiah from Jerusalem. What Revelation does is claim that this person is Jesus. Other than that, the picture is mostly the same.

    Second, the context leading to Heaven’s intervention is a worldwide attack on the nation of Israel. Only a dunce would believe that any nation nation could survive that kind of comprehensive assault, even a country like Israel which has repeatedly defeated several armies at once.

    So part of what’s happening is a rescue mission from Heaven, given the literal impossibility of one nation fending off the entire world.

    And second, of course, in order for Heaven to reign on earth, tyrants on earth — the kinds of despots you like — must be…

  • Jack

    ….defeated.

  • Bob

    Poor try on your part, Jack. Hitler was plainly and openly Christian and his actions were strongly supported by other Christians, especially church leaders.

    Furthermore, the actions of the followers of a superstition set such as your foolish Christian one generally have no bearing on the veracity of the claims re the superstitions. In your case, the claims of your cult such as salvation and sacrifice by a “god” are complete nonsense.

    Stop promoting your crazy Christian cult with its horribly vengeful deity of its myths.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    No, Jack, I addressed the issue directly and I’ll do so in more detail if you keep on promoting your sick, bigoted beliefs here.

    The whole Jesus-sacrifice story, the foundation of your crazy superstition, is a steaming pile of nonsense. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    No, Jack, the awful tyranny is that described plainly in your sick bible myths for your excessively vengeful sky jerk “god”. Now as for your disgusting holy book, let’s take a look at what’s really in that evil torture show AKA the bible. From both foul testaments,

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
    Revelations 21:8 “their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “ you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    and so on. Awful stuff. Stop promoting it.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Jack

    Wrong, “Bob,” as usual. Words have meaning, and the word, “Christian,” isn’t any different. There are objective doctrines to which one must assent in order to be considered a “Christian.” I just listed most of the major doctrines and teachings of classical Christianity, as affirmed by both Catholics and Protestants through time.

    Hitler’s own words contradicted all of them. Again, his beliefs were at best a form of Gnosticism, which the earliest councils of the Church, going back 17 centuries, deemed heretical. People were burned at the stake for a lot less.

  • Jack

    I’m still waiting for a rational response from you, Bob, not a robotic cookie-cutter bit of agitprop masquerading as a drooling rant.

  • Jack

    Bob, if the Bible, including the Old Testament, is so awful and evil, why have the Jews, whom you’d agree were its authors (especially if you don’t believe in God), behaved themselves better than the rest of humanity through time? If the OT is so horribly monstrous, why are the Jews the opposite of monstrous?

  • Jack

    And of course, Bob, you forget that your lovely goose stepping, God-hating comrades were directly responsible for the deaths of up to 150 million people in the last century alone.

    When you folks put your minds to it, you really know how to do genocide, don’t you….

  • Larry

    Keep trying to polish that turd Jack. Somehow the plain meaning of your posts doesn’t mean what it was supposed to be. You are far too proud to walk away from what was clearly a silly statement seeking equivalence.

  • Bob

    No, Jack, you cowardly dodger. Those goose steppers were your gang’s comrades. We’ve already covered that.

    And again, let’s get into specifics of what your wicked holy book asks of you. Nuff dodging. From both foul testaments,

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
    Revelations 21:8 “their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “ you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    and so on. Awful stuff. Stop promoting it. Stop dodging.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Too funny, that typical statement coming from you, ad hominem Jack that you have become established as here.
    We’re still waiting for you to present any modern evidence whatsoever for your crazy beliefs in your murderous, excessively vengeant sky fairy “god”.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    No, Jack. You Christians sure are experts at burning people. Your Hitler was bad enough along with his church co-member contemporaries, but you had centuries of practice via the Inquisitions and more before he came along into your gang.

    Furthermore, the actions of the followers of a superstition set such as your foolish Christian one generally have no bearing on the veracity of the claims re the superstitions. In your case, the claims of your cult such as salvation and sacrifice by a “god” are complete nonsense.

    Stop promoting your crazy, bigoted Christian cult with its horribly vengeful deity of its myths.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/