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  • In all seriousness these folks are willing to believe that a rock (in a hat mind you) allowed Smith to translate Egyptian plates 185 years ago in upstate New York. Fine. Yet they cannot accept the settled science on LGBT matters. Can you understand my frustration?

  • Bernado

    Definitely a rock to mock along with the other myths of the business cult called Mormonism.

  • Dominic

    I admire Mormons as a group of good citizens, but have always been shocked that they built a religion around such an absurd story.

  • NDKnow

    The folklore seems to outlive the facts. Eyed Agates or stones with circles and rings are common to Upperstate New York and especially around Lake Superior. These water and ice polished pebbles. These “seeing stones” or eyed agates are still treasured and popped into the pockets of amateur collectors. Joseph Smith probably did own a few, just as people on the west coast treasure sea glass, sand dollars and bits of abalone shell.

    Joseph Smith did not toss them in a hat and use them for translations.

    He and his contemporaries wrote that he used a device, referred to as a Urim and Thumimmum, which means “Thought and Memory” or “Light and Comprehension” in old Hebrew, to do the translations. This device is mentioned several times in the old testament. Some biblical; scholars have thought that it was something like a set of dice, but since it could form words, and be used to define genealogy records, it may have been something like a computer.

  • NDKnow

    There seems to be a movement to discredit the Mormons because they have the old fashioned view on the sacredness of straight marriage. If you are not a Mormon and do not share their other religious beliefs then why worry about forcing them to accept the LGBT standards that are newly created affect less than 5% of the American population?

    Settled Science? In the 1950s LGBT matters were considered crimes against nature, punishable by law. In the 1960s, LGBT matters were considered mental illness, and treatable. In the 1970s LGBT matters were considered cultural choices, with health risks. Under the Obama Administration they are considered civil rights. In which year did they become settled science?

  • NDKnow

    The stone in a hat story seems to have come from the writings of Orson Pratt, who had came to Joseph for a blessing.. He recorded that Joseph “produced a small stone called a seer stone, and putting it into a Hat, soon commenced speaking.”.

    So why put a stone in a hat? Because if you leave it in your pocket, it hurts when you sit on it, and if you put it in your hat, you don’t lose it.

    Similar origins may explain how stones, bones, teeth, and “yeti scalps” became part of the religious folk objects of Buddhist, Catholic, and Muslim faiths, etc.. ( Muslims, prize a large stone, possibly a meteor, which is on display in the most sacred center of Mecca)

  • “Even some devout Latter-day Saints say they knew nothing of Smith’s use of the stone in producing the Book of Mormon from buried gold plates.”

    There is a lot of Mormon history that devout Mormons don’t know about:


  • Voice of Reason

    reference ‘Book of Mormon Musical’ nobody cares if the Mormons are mocked. it is always open season on Mormons.

    to all those who mock this faith, frankly you don’t know what you are doing, it is the restored true religion.

  • Bernardo

    Restored true religion? You are kidding me? How can anyone fall for this in the 21st century?

  • Julian

    Wait until they learn that Joseph Smith didn’t even look at the golden plates when he translated them with the stone.

  • I highly doubt the rock that recently hit the news is the actual Seer Stone! My grandfather, was a church historian for over twenty-five years. He’s told me this story: Joseph Smith founded The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints back in the 1800s in the eastern United States such as New York, Illinois, and Missouri. After he was shot Brigham Young was voted the next leader of the church, and multitudes followed him west to Utah. They took very little, if any, of Joseph’s personal belongings. In fact, Joseph’s immediate family and close friends that oversaw Joseph’s personal affairs remained back east. They fixed the damage left by the angry mobs, and then started their own church called The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
    The Mormons in Utah then spent many years, and many generations, buying items that once belonged to Joseph, and honestly, many were fakes.

  • Ben in Oakland

    No more absurd than god sacrificing himself to himself to atone to himself for being himself and creating people to be less perfect than he himself is.

    On the other hand, you’re right. Why did God require a stone in a hat to translate the BOM? Mohammed was told to “recite!” and delivered the Quran out of whole cloth, however flimsy. Jesus had “near eyewitnesses” to record contradictory accounts of his life.

  • Ben in Oakland

    You can try Freud’s Letter to an American Mother for a start.Or you can research the Napoleonic code. Or you can give up the absurd notion that you know anything of the subject at ALL.

  • Ben in Oakland

    You better not say that around here. The Only True Christians (TM) will soon inform you otherwise.

  • Ben in Oakland

    Just like the 17 foreskins of Jesus that are known to exist, or the collection of pieces of the True Cross sufficient to built a house, or the Crown of Thorns residing in Sainte Chappelle in Paris, along with all of the other thorns that also have enough thorniness to build a house.

    Psssssst. I have a large bridge in san Francisco. Wanna buy it?

  • Hello_world

    No, I can’t understand how that relates to ur science.

  • Hello_world

    Boy are you in for a big surprise.

  • ArekP

    You Mormons truly amaze me. You lie at EVERY OPPORTUNITY. WHY?

    “Joseph Smith did not toss them in a hat and use them for translations.”

    Really? Then explain this…

    From Martin Harris:
    “By aid of the Seer Stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin, and when finished he would say ‘written;’ and if correctly written, the sentence would disappear and another appear in its place; but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used” (CHC 1:29).

  • ArekP

    Or this…

    From David Whitmer:
    “I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.”

  • ArekP

    Or this…

    And Smith’s own wife:
    “Smith’s wife, Emma Smith Bidamon, was interviewed late in her life by her son Joseph Smith III about her knowledge of the early [p.99] church. This interview took place in February 1879 in the presence of Lewis C. Bidamon, her husband. At one point Emma stated the following: ‘In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us… .'”

  • ArekP

    Joseph Smith’s brother William also confirmed the use of the hat and seer stone. His account is also similar to the accounts given by Harris and Whitmer although he refers to the seer stone as the “Urim and Thummim.” He stated, “The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God”

    Wanna try that again?

  • Rionni

    Joseph Smith made so many predictions that didn’t come true which
    shows he is a liar/herectic because no true prophet can be revered
    if they are a liar plus with all of the “spirit bride” nonsense when no
    such thing happens in heaven since there’s no sex in heaven shows
    we don’t need the book of mormon. We only need to Repent/trust in
    Jesus to be saved! Mormons say they are the true/restored church
    which is complete nonsense/heresy. How anyone can still follow the
    book of mormon and mormonism just shows how stubborn some are.
    You do not need a/ the book of mormon or Joseph Smith just Jesus.

  • Ben in oakland

    Here are some prophesies that did not come to pass. They must not be true ones.

    “18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”


    Matthew 16:28 “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”


    23:36 “I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.”

    24:34 “I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.”

  • Stephen Ray Hale

    Mormons are into talking of “testimony” and well it is in that there is indeed a schema of interpretation found in the Bible that allows the archive of testimony we know of as the Bible to be interpreted. But this same schema when used establishes the truth that the Bible’s testimony by active Holy Spirit endowed members in particular of the body of Christ would be done away with and the marvelous sign gifts would STOP. The marvelous sign gifts did indeed stop at the end of the “this generation” Jesus called evil and would not have a “sign from heaven.” In 70 AD at the destruction of the temple did that forty year generation end. The gift of prophecy would linger till the death of the last eyewitness of what Jesus said and did, and John the apostle wrote the last eyewitness testimony and the last book of prophecy. There will be no more prophet till after the rapture in the seven years before the millennial kingdom is established. Joseph Smith, even Muhammad, are frauds.

  • Stephen Ray Hale

    Incidentally, the “this generation” of Matthew 24 is a future generation that WILL see signs from heaven, Jesus being one IN HEAVEN, and not as the sign of Jonah given the first “this generation” that Jesus calls evil. This will be the generation after the rapture when the churches will not exist any more and God will focus again in the last week of years promised to Daniel that God will deal with the Jews. Here there will be prophets and miracles again in that time after the rapture. As for Matt.23:36, the blood of all the persecuted saints up till that time did indeed fall on “this generation” that Jesus called evil. Peter called upon corollary one of the Schema of interpretation that says “in the mouth of one witness shall no man be put to death,” when Peter said in 2 Peter 1:20, “this first knowing that every prophecy of scripture is not of its own interpretation.” You need to consider IN THE BIBLE all the scriptures in reference to one focus for temporal 3-D…

  • Ben in oakland

    Fill in the blanks.

    A __________and his ___________ blank are soon parted.

  • Ben in oakland

    wow, you sound like quite a prophet yourself! All those words, to explain simple sentences that are clear as glass. Oh well, I guess that’s what theology– every single one of them– is for. It all goes to show that whenever your holy book says something that is inconvenient, it is far more convenient to pretend it says something else entirely.

    Well, that’s Hermeneutics for you:

    the fine art of getting your holy book to say exactly what you want it to.

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  • steve

    Mormon believers never cease to entertain me. Keep up the good work!

  • Robert C. Graham

    I find it interesting that Thomas Edison also had a seer stone. http://www.artswfl.com/public-art-2/fort-myers-river-district-public-art-2/edison-ford-estates-collection/edison-ford-estates-collection and Edgar Cayce (mid-western “seer” also used a personal stone for revelation. The prophet Moses and subsequent Jewish High Priests also used the Urim and Thummim, which according to Josephus, was a breast plate of stones and jewels and revelation came as light through the jewels.

    Which makes me then ask, who is the rockhead here — Joseph Smith or the thousands of ignorant commentators who don’t know or respect the use of such objects in the seeking of higher knowledge.

    Edison used his metal ball to keep his conscious acute and assure that while he was meditating, if he fell into the sleeping state, he would end up dropping the ball onto a tin pan, which would cause him to wake up.

  • For followers, the following link is a nice description: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng

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  • Joe

    I just love that the Mormon church is chalking this as a misconception to artistic interperetation. Are you serious ????

    Every propaganda piece and art that appears in Mormon church publications and buildings is carefully approved by the Mormon church. When I converted (thank God I had the sense to leave)
    every image was Josrph Smith reviewing the plates.

    I am fortunate that left the cult