For abortion foes, it’s now more ‘SHOCK!’ and less ‘Awwwww’ (ANALYSIS)

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An Anti-Choice Project member holds anti-abortion signs during the 2012 March for Life in Olympia, Wash. RNS photo courtesy the Anti-Choice Project. *Note: This photo may only be used with RNS-ROE-GRAPHIC.

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(RNS) Many feared the bloody images that were staples of the annual March for Life may have repelled more than they converted. But the release of undercover Planned Parenthood videos suggests gruesome is back.

  • Pingback: For abortion foes, it’s now more ‘SHOCK!’ and less ‘Awwwww’ (ANALYSIS) - mosaicversemosaicverse()

  • Bernardo

    And the solution? Practicing safe sex would end most unplanned pregnancies. Details previously given.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    This story left out the fact that one of the PP people was looking forward to getting a Lamborghini with proceeds from the deaths of unborn children.
    How can anyone deny human life is degraded when government funds are used to finance the killing of babies in the womb.???
    It is apparent that being in the business of crunching babies distorts one’s moral compass . Just listen to the PP minions. The question should be raised—is our culture’s reverence for life being degraded just as the moral compass of 1930’s Germans was degraded by the movement there to kill retarded people????.

  • larry

    Largely because the PP video story was a complete bullcrap and the public caught on to that pretty early on.

    Of course degrading human life is pretty much describes how the anti-abortion crowd treats pregnant women and born people in general. They are denigrated, ignored or simply denied existence in the discussion.

    Lets be brutally honest, if there was a huge groundswell of concern for the concern of parents and children (people who are born), there would be far less motivation for having abortions.

    The people seeking to defund PP are essentially telling the public they want to pay for unplanned pregnancies and declining health of impoverished women. Or really they want everyone to pay for these things since it means greater dependency on public assistance.

  • Pro-choice pundits should use graphic displays of their own of the results of back alley abortions, the corpse of Savita Halappanavar and the work of Kermit Gosnell.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/19/gosnell-abortion-trial-pro-life-activists-to-blame

    The pro-life answer is to double down on abortion restrictions and outlaw the procedure wholesale, a move that would do little more than create many more Gosnell-style houses of horror.

    The Gosnell case is a story precisely because it is unusual. Before abortion was legal across the country, women dying from botched abortions wasn’t particularly newsworthy. Legal abortion in the United States is today one of the safest medical procedures around. It becomes dangerous when it’s outlawed or functionally illegal, and when women are desperate and shamed.

    Widespread adoption of pro-life laws created one Gosnell. We shouldn’t make more.

  • Greg1

    Larry, you seem to be taking on the Obama approach of just denying that these videos are REAL. When people have sex, then they must accept the responsibilities associated with the possible outcome. Only when we get back to having a moral society, will we ever get past the blindness that people such as yourself, have been seared with. My God, what is wrong with people any more??? They are mentally dead. If the leadership of the Republican party cannot unhinge itself from ZerObama, then the States must defund PP one by one. PP is a butcher shop, and must be put out of business. People should Google former PP director Abby Johnson, who has left the abortion mill, and has repented. Her stories are ones of horror.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    If the videos were bullcrap then why did the head of PP apologize for the crude, crass words of its employees???? Of course, I can understand some people not having seen or heard of the story. For, as usual, the mainstream media did its usual attempt to censor the news to help liberal positions.
    But it is getting harder to hide truths these days with Fox willing to give all the news. Eventually CNN and MSNBC had to at least report on the video a tiny bit because of Fox.

  • larry

    The exaggerations and hysterics associated with the videos were apparent the moment the “full versions” came out. Plus this wasn’t the first time these people put out intentionally misleading videos to push conservative agendas. But lying in service of religious agendas has never been something many are afraid of doing. Even Boehmer saw this was such bullcrap that he gave a non-committal response to the conservative lynch mob formed after the video.

    The opponents of PP are short sighted and dogmatic. There is nothing rational about it. Public funds don’t go toward abortion anyway. It only means that PP’s medical services will suffer. Conservatives hate the poor and don’t like them to be healthy. We know that by now.

    The fact that your responses amount to nothing more than insult slinging and silly conspiracy theory show how little merit is really here.

  • Greg1

    larry, PP is the equivalent of back alley abortions. These films attest to that.

  • Larry

    Spoken like someone who doesn’t give a flying crap about the health of women.

    The fact that you are doubling down on the fiction of those films shows how completely vacant your POV is. I guess a useful lie is always worth using. Why be honest when you are doing the Lord’s work?

    http://www.salon.com/2015/07/16/what_the_planned_parenthood_hoax_really_proves_right_wing_extremists_have_no_qualms_about_destroying_peoples_lives/

  • Greg1

    Larry I give a flying concern for all women, especially those in the womb who have struggled to escape the forceps of the abortionists. I would not have believed it until I saw the ultrasound film of an abortion with the baby trying very hard to get away from its executioner. Whew! That was horrible.

  • The TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE Christian Right:

    “No sex education”
    “No laws against guns”
    “No laws to protect the poor”
    “No laws to insure poor people”
    “No healthcare for the poor”
    “No education for the poor”
    “No end to wars”
    “No increase in food stamps”
    “No housing for the poor”
    “No rights for Women, Gays, Lesbians or Trans”

    “….But we are PRO LIFE!”

    No. You are self-righteous spreaders of human misery.

  • Your religion is spreading ignorance
    as it always has.

    Even the signs above are lies.
    The vast majority of abortions happen BEFORE A BEATING HEART IS FORMED!

    AND UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO BE THE INCUBATOR
    YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO FORCE THAT ONTO SOMEONE ELSE!

  • bthomas

    If the unborn children killed by Planned Parenthood industrial abortion processes were instead baby seals or even lab rats, there would be a outcry of outrage equivalent to that which is currently being expressed as a consequence of the killing of Cecil the lion. But, they are merely inconvenient lives that have committed the capital crime of getting in the way. They have thoughtlessly gotten in the way of women who want do not want to be responsible for the inconvenient consequences of their own choices about sexual practice. By simply being alive these unborn children have gotten in the way of a society that only values children whose have the financial means to provide for them. That is the hard and painful truth that is industrial abortion in America. When all the media hoopla is over, Planned Parenthood will continue killing babies. It’s not about right and wrong. It’s just good business. That’s all. They have to keep the payments up on their Lamborghini’s.

  • Diogenes

    Sex education in school has been widely available since at least the mid 70’s when I was a teenager; the information about how to safely prevent unwanted pregnancies is clearly out there. Yet unplanned pregnancies continue unabated, not only among the “poor and ‘uneducated…’,” but among the well to do and professional, why? Because when raging hormones arise in ill considered situations primal impulses overcome calm rational mental processes. We have become wholly unfettered in the gratification of our appetites, not only in this but other areas as well. As long as we continue to sow the wind, we will continue to reap the whirlwind.

  • Greg1

    Amen to responsibility.

  • Larry

    So much concern you want to make decisions for them. Since you don’t trust them to consider what is going on in their own bodies.

    At no point are you considering women more than personal incubators for your fetus worship. You don’t give a crap about those born. Your concern for the unborn is hypocritical and phony.

  • Larry

    So you are saying the sex education classes Christian conservatives have attacked and stripped down to next to nothing are ineffective. But you are complaining about their lack of results? What utter nerve. To bemoan a problem of your own making? Give me a break.

    Abstinence only programs you bible thumping hypocrites have been touting is worse than useless. Your talk of “responsibility” is an excuse to do nothing and wag your finger as if it needs to be taken seriously.

  • Larry

    Baby seals and lions are already born. If you had concern for the women who consider abortions and why, there would be far fewer of them. But you don’t. You ignore anything about their condition to focus on hysterical appeals based on the act of abortion itself. As if banning abortion makes it go away. The horrors of back alley abortionists and Kermit Gosnell show what happens when you create unsue burdens to access to such procedures.

    Your care for fellow people only seems to exist from conception to birth.

  • Diogenes:

    “raging hormones arise in ill considered situations primal impulses….”

    OH STOP IT!
    Excellent sex education is what makes teen pregnancy almost non-existent in New England, most of New York, Northern California, Washington State and elsewhere.

    Wherever religion is dying off sexual education is expanding and making people happier and healthier.

    Your prudish, repressive religious argument is dead on arrival.

    In states with the highest concentration of religion are also the most ignorant on matters of sexuality; Louisiana, Alabama, Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma…

    AND THE RELIGIOUS HAVE THE the highest percentage of sexual ignorance, teen pregnancy and sexual diseases.

    Religion ruins everything it touches, keeps people ignorant
    and makes people miserable for no reason.

  • Greg1

    Larry, It’s exciting that you have your mind attuned to mine, and feel you can actually read my thoughts! In reality, though, I care much more about, and for, women, than you do, and would like nothing more than to spend an eternity with every one — in Heaven. On the other hand, you are full of talk, but when push comes to shove, would rather they take the easy way out of a difficult situation, making their lives a living hell for their duration. Your only solution is to tell them they only removed some foreign growth, but the reality is, they lost part of themselves. Your comments are the zenith of indifferentism.

  • “I care much more about, and for, women, than you do, and would like nothing more than to spend an eternity with every one — in Heaven”

    Jack the Ripper probably said the same thing.. 🙂

    My only solution is not to force them to do anything. To let them make their own decisions. Without some self-righteous arrogant narcissistic know it all trying to decide for them. But your contempt for women and your inability to understand the choices they make is plainly obvious in your POV.

  • Greg1

    Hey, having premarital sex can have consequences. We all know what fornication can lead to. When little kids are given condoms to have sex with other little kids, then our legal system has failed us. But abortion is not the answer. Abortion is the mass scale destruction of life. Assassination of unwanted persons is never the answer. We saw Hitler do that in the Second World War, and we still feel the pain of that horror. We need a national day of reflection for the 55 million babies destroyed to date. It is truly a sad time we are living in. I feel the pain of those little ones.

  • Andrew

    Max,

    Please provide source material for your claim teenage pregnancy stats in these northern states are almost nonexistent.

    If religion is ruinous, why is teen pregnancy a problem in the first place? Shouldn’t there be more teen pregnancy than less if people are freer to express themselves? Isn’t contraception repressive of the natural course of things? Seems religion keeps some people out of the sack (which would be your idea of morally, economically repressive) while contraception keeps semen from transmitting and sperm from fertilizing eggs (which is biologically repressive).

    Also indicate evidences proving your emotionally charged ideal that people are happier and healthier wherever religion is dying off. Communist China for instance? I think the term we use for their practice of one child per household and contraception or forced abortion thereafter would be considered politically repressive.

    You obviously have a powerful argument. I just need more facts…

  • The Least Religious Countries:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/14/map-these-are-the-worlds-least-religious-countries/

    Have the lowest teen pregnancy rates:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/14/map-these-are-the-worlds-least-religious-countries/

    And are ABSOLUTELY THE HAPPIEST PLACES ON EARTH:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/14/map-these-are-the-worlds-least-religious-countries/

    American is an embarrassment of ignorance.
    No other country has been so lucky to have Atheism enshrined in its constitution.

    Unfortunately, too many ignorant Americans waste their most precious freedom – the freedom to NOT engage in the nonsense of religion. They choose superstition over their own humanity and religious depravity over the possibility of a joyous life.

  • Andrew

    So, Larry, regarding the public schools where most American youngsters learn other methods of birth control, help me understand. You say the educational content in them is wholesale undermined by Bible teaching Christian churches. So contraceptive use effectiveness taught in public funded schools is having holes poked holes in it? Or in the actual condoms?

    Or is being taught abstinence from sexual intercourse by a church that teaches the Bible where sexuality is fairly well discussed, considering the scripture texts are pretty rife with these issues? But an individual’s choice to fling care to the wind and not listen to either the pastor, priest, (rabbi, imam,) youth leader—you are saying it is the church’s fault? Teaching abstinence causes a teen to not listen to his science teacher as well?

    Or, is it that abstinence is getting girls pregnant?

    Please explain your use of the word “hypocrite” and “worse than useless,” as my understanding of those words rather reflect on…

  • Andrew

    Max, your nonemotional appeal to reasoned, considerate discourse amazes me, so that we who are Christian have no worthy response to you.

  • Andrew:

    HAPPIEST COUNTRIES ARE ATHEIST:

    Switzerland
    Iceland
    Denmark
    Norway
    Canada
    Finland
    Netherlands (Holland)
    Sweden
    New Zealand
    Australia

    France would be on the list except for the strong influx of religion from middle east countries which skews the statistics.

    THE SADDEST PLACES ON EARTH are all THE MOST RELIGIOUS:

    IVORY COAST
    ARMENIA
    BANGLADESH
    GEORGIA
    IRAN
    IRAQ
    NORTH KOREA
    PAKISTAN
    AFGHANISTAN
    SAUDI ARABIA
    SYRIA
    PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES
    EGYPT
    LIBYA
    CHAD
    RWANDA
    NIGERIA

    http://worldhappiness.report/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/04/WHR15.pdf

    WHY DOES GOD GIVE SO MANY BLESSINGS TO COUNTRIES WHICH IGNORE HIM?

    The silver bullet which cures poverty and inequality is The Emancipation of Women. All countries which have tried it have found it to improve every measure of happiness and success.

    RELIGION FORBIDS THE EMANCIPATION OF WOMEN.
    That is why religion is always a failure to humanity and leads cultures to ruin.

  • Andrew:

    Abstinence does not work.
    Does it prevent pregnancy? YES! That is not the question.
    Abstinence is not what happens. Sex is what happens.

    That is how you ruin young people’s lives, by not showing them proper sex education.

    They are going to have sex – SORRY – but you will not prevent that.
    Abstinance programs do not work. It is a 100% record of failure.

    Sex education and contraception are the only solution.
    Please do not lecture me on what is ‘natural’. Small Pox is natural too. And we have figured out that some natural things need to be controlled.
    Contraception is exactly the control which is needed – not religion and not more failed abstinence programs.

  • Andrew

    How could “women dying from botched abortions” not be considered newsworthy, Larry? In a society that values freedom of the press, as you obviously claim to care more about women than the rest us here (except Atheist Max), how could that not be considered newsworthy?

    Provide stats on women who died from botched abortions, or of other health problems associated before Roe, since that’s standard argument made by the pro-choice agenda. Rather, there is plenty of evidence pregnancy is by definition everything in a woman’s body preparing her for the prospect of delivery of her healthy child, not terminating it against nature. Denial of this disregards women’s health.

    So failure of the press to consider a woman dying from a botched abortion newsworthy, that would seem to indicate women in America were not even considered human until Roe v Wade? Or are you thereby conjecturing that a woman’s right to have an abortion is equivalent to a woman’s life? That’s really in disregard…

  • Andrew

    No, Bernardo. I think you have the cart before the horse. I think you mean “prevent” not “end.” Safe sex and unsafe, voluntary abortions are entirely different things, and should not be so flippantly confused in this or any discussion.

  • Bernardo

    Added details:

    WHICH Birth control METHODS DO WOMEN (men?) USE?

    • 64% of reproductive-age women who practice contraception use reversible methods, such as oral contraceptives or condoms. The remaining women rely on female or male sterilization.[2]

    FIRST-YEAR CONTRACEPTIVE FAILURE RATES – Guttmacher Institute)
    Percentage of women experiencing an unintended pregnancy (a few examples)

    Method……………..Typical

    Pill (combined)……… 8.7 (resulting in ~one millon unplanned pregnancies)
    Tubal sterilization ……0.7
    Male condom ……….17.4 (resulting in ~one million unplanned pregnancies)
    Vasectomy…………… 0.2
    Implant…………………1.0
    IUD (Copper-T)……….1.0
    (Masturbation mono or dual)………. 0
    (Abstinence) 0
    And the abortion rate in the USA? ~one million/year

    The failure of the Pill as noted above results in one million unplanned pregnancies every year because women basically fail to take it once a day as prescribed. Is there a literacy problem that Planned Parenthood failed to recognize?

  • Larry

    “How could “women dying from botched abortions” not be considered newsworthy, Larry?”

    The same reason why people dying in inner cities or war zones are not newsworthy. It used to happen so often that it was taken for granted.

    For info of pre-Roe abortion related death
    http://socialistworker.org/2005-2/562/562_06_Abortion.shtml
    Current, more conservative, estimates of the death toll still stand at between 5,000 and 10,000 deaths per year.

    “Rather, there is plenty of evidence pregnancy is by definition everything in a woman’s body preparing her for the prospect of delivery of her healthy child, not terminating it against nature.”

    That is a very reductive way to view women. One well in step with the anti-abortion crowd thinking. A woman is nothing except a vessel for a gestating fetus. Not someone to be treated like a human being worthy of consideration.

  • Larry

    For more information of the situation before Roe.

    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3502503.html
    http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/health-info/impact-of-illegal-abortion/

    Your ignorance and laziness in looking up such things is duly noted Andrew.

  • Larry

    Abstinence only education has not only been ineffective everywhere in the world. It has been counter-productive in comparison. Where there is actual medically accurate sex education, unplanned pregnancies declined as well as abortion rates.

    Your unwillingness to learn the effects of what you are supporting is more evidence of your lack of actual care here. You only seek to wag fingers and feel morally superior. Not seek real solutions

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/02/20/3310751/abstinence-failures-charts/
    “conservative communities that emphasize abstinence aren’t seeing much success, either. A full 80 percent of evangelical Christians report having sex at least once before marriage — leading the evangelical community to slowly shift toward greater support for access to contraception.

    If decreasing sexual activity is the goal, there’s actually a large body of research proving that comprehensive sex ed is an effective tool for accomplishing that.”

  • Larry

    You are entitled to your opinion. But the facts are plain as day here. You want to prevent unwanted pregnancies, the most effective solution is easy access to contraception and medically accurate sex education. You want abortion rates to go down, don’t obstruct access to it.

    Abstinence only programs and abortion bans are miserable failures. Not ever effective if the goal is to reduce unplanned pregnancy and make abortion less desirable.

    Not one place which takes your fact free bible thumping inspired policies seriously has been effective in addressing the problem. That is not your intention anyway. You simply want to feel morally superior and do nothing. Your concerns are phony self important junk.

  • Andrew

    Probably in part, Bernardo. The greater problem is one that fails to recognize when life and liberty begin and what value we place on these principles of individual equality within the species, wherein we find we humans, though animal are also imprinted with the divine image. This is after all a religious site and faith and biology are not in opposition to one another. Both concur that an individual life begins at conception, and as I stated elsewhere here, value of a woman given preference by her man takes into consideration ahead of time parenthood. We do have a literacy problem if people fail to understand what all that has been written actually means. It is a wisdom problem.

  • Andrew

    Max, I would love to see the statistics on that claim. Do you know when a beating heart is first detected?

  • Andrew

    You argue, Larry, for procedures that kill or infect U.S. women far more than pregnancy, natural stillbirths, and natural delivery of newborns combined. You argue for abortion as a “solution” that instead of taking the biological factors as well as abortion’s risks into consideration, yet you are accusing me of “reducing a woman to a vessel for gestation”? Your reasoning is skewed, Sir. You degrade women.

    I value a woman enough to protest abuses you defend. If I choose not to treat her in a way that reduces her and her gender to a sexual object for men and our gender to take advantage of in a sexual way, a way you are defending; if I by treating her as I would a fellow human being, cognizant of her better nature; then how is my acknowledging her biological workings in preparation for the possibility of reproduced life within her “a very reductive way to view women”?

    It rather seems you view women narrowly through the reductive lens of the legalese of Roe v. Wade and sex…

  • Andrew

    Your rudeness is likewise, Larry. I followed your links and read them. Thanks for the information, but it appears you would rather throw out insults than have a reasoned dialog. Have a great life.

  • Andrew

    OK. You lecture me if that works better for you and reasoned dialog does not. Have a great life, Max.

  • Andrew

    You both must have missed my point about abstinence and sex education, not the one to the exclusion of the other.

    Alas, it appears I have come across as morally superior and finger wagged my way out of this conversation. Believe me, I did not mean to appear that way. I am lower than your new social ethic, indeed I am under the progressive boot.

    I was mistaken thinking this was a religious news site where dissent is accommodated. I could not have been more wrong. Adieu.

  • Andrew

    What the Hell am I doing here, I think I’ll move to one of those happy countries, but not the ones that have snow half the year. You know, Seasonal Affective Disorder. Maybe Australia near the Equator, but I burn easily. You guys are just not happy I’m here.

    (Oops. I said hell and this is a religious site. Guess I’ll burn there, too.)

  • Larry

    What part of “only” in abstinence-only education do you not get?

    People who preach abstinence as a form of sex education do so with the intent of excluding all other forms education on birth control options.

    If follows the foolish notion that if one gives medically accurate and truthful information concerning sexual relations that it will encourage them. As if people look for official sanction of such things.

  • Larry

    You made several “proof trolling” posts. Now you get annoyed when you receive the response. If you find that rude, so be it.

    You missed my argument because you refuse to factor in pregnant women into the equation here. You ignore them in a way to deny they have lives and a right to make decisions as to what goes on in their bodies.

    Its not advocating abortion, its advocating keeping access to abortion open. So women can make their own decisions based on situations in their lives. Not a single argument against abortion ever addresses why its legal. At best they are arguments why someone may not want to decide to have one. My point has always been its her decision to make. Not yours.

    Abortion bans never work. Draconian restrictions on abortions only make the procedure more dangerous. As for the dangers of abortion, I would rather trust what medical science says on this than you. Lying is common enough with the pro-life stance not to take your assertions on biology at face…