With Pope Francis, Catholic Church takes a new angle on the supernatural (COMMENTARY)

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"The Vatican Prophecies" by John Thavis. Photo courtesy of John Thavis

"The Vatican Prophecies" by John Thavis. Photo courtesy of John Thavis

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(RNS) When it comes to supernatural phenomena -- including demons, miracles, apparitions and private revelations -- Francis’ approach is far more practical than theatrical.

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  • “This is a religion, after all, that was founded by a man who cast out demons, healed the sick and appeared to his followers after his death.”

    The God ROMULUS?

  • John Thavis,
    Seriously though, thanks for this commentary. It is very insightful.

    “Francis does believe in the power of saintly intercession…when he prays to Saint Therese of Lisieux, he “almost always” receives a rose in response…”

    The Pope needs to investigate “Confirmation bias” and learn about it.

    “Satan…comes “disguised as an angel.””

    Claiming the world is just a hall of mirrors and that evil “could be the beautiful person next to you” is incredibly unhelpful. The Pope needs to study the scientific method.

    “Science is how we make sure we aren’t fooling ourselves. And we are the easiest ones to fool” – Richard Feynman

    The Pope is a silly person promoting a fatuous philosophy – an Ambassador of Leprechaunia.

  • Larry

    “Don’t you know there ain’t no devil, there’s just god when he’s drunk”

    Tom Waits

  • HERE ARE 10 GODS before Jesus
    who fit the description:

    “Healed the sick”
    “Cast out demons”
    “Appeared to followers after dying”

    ROMULUS,
    BUDDHA,
    KRISHNA,
    ODYSSEUS,
    DIONYSUS,
    HERACLES,
    GLYCON,
    ZOROASTER,
    ATTIS OF PHRYGIA,
    HORUS

    None of them said anything quite as nasty as Jesus though:
    “Bring to me my enemies and execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

  • Tom Downs

    Careful, Max. Feynman should have said, “Science is how we try to make sure we aren’t fooling ourselves. And we, scientists, are just as easy as anyone else to fool.” It’s all about a search for understanding. The Pope searches one way, the philosopher another, and the scientist still another. If there is one thing Post Modernism advises its that none of them has the final answer.

  • Ben in oakland

    “The Vatican investigated those apparitions for years, and insiders say the pope’s judgment, expected soon, may encourage restrictions on the public activity of the seers, some of whom have become globetrotting celebrities.”

    If this doesn’t say it all, I can’t imagine what does. Like the fabled visions of Fathima, where people saw the Sun dance, on a hot Portuguese afternoon, but no one else anywhere in the world saw the Sun dance. Meanwhile, someone’s making money off of it, or more accurately making money off the Credulity of believers.

    Globe trotting celebrities indeed!

  • Tom Downs:

    “Feynman should have said…scientists are the easiest to fool”

    But he didn’t – he said WE ARE ALL EASY TO FOOL.
    Don’t put yourself outside of that circle or you completely missed his wisdom.

    And what do you think is a better way than science exactly?
    The Pope isn’t being metaphorical or poetic! He says you can’t tell where the devil is and you can’t figure it out by any particular means.

    That’s right!
    The AUTHORITY of the church is claiming life is no better than a hall of mirrors! So what do you have left? Follow Jesus? Which JESUS?

    “Kill them all” – JESUS (luke 19:27)
    “Forgive them all, they know not what they do” – JESUS

    Good grief!
    Religion adds nothing but foolishness and confusion.
    Science is a METHOD to dispel confusion. It doesn’t have the answer to every question – but neither do you.

    At least Science doesn’t say – “We can’t know anything”
    The Pope is just childish.

  • Greg1

    This article is kind of interesting, because there is a new book out (Peace will have the Last Word; http://www.amazon.com/Peace-Will-Have-Last-Word/dp/B011SM8M7Q), which describes a miracle that occurred in the pope’s diocese prior to him becoming pope. It was a discarded host (Eucharist) found on the floor of the church, which after a few days began to bleed, and showing fragments of tissue in the host; it was later analyzed by a forensic scientist, who described the host as “living” heart tissue, of a man with Type AB blood, who experienced great stress, even though the bloodied host had been secured away for weeks prior to its analysis. It is hard to imagine the pope not being the slightest bit influenced by this event. There have been a series of these incidents throughout the last 2000 years in the Church, where Christ is apparently saying, Believe Me, “unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you don’t have life in you” (John 6:53).

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  • Bernardo

    “Take the devil, for example. Francis has spoken repeatedly about Satan, describing him variously as a con artist, a dangerous manipulator who “knows more theology than all theologians,” or a sly charmer who often comes “disguised as an angel.”

    And now moving into the 21st century:

    Satan does not exist, never did and never will. It is all part of the Infamous Satanic/Angelic con pulled by founders of religion since time began.

  • Bernardo

    Greg1,

    Once again, John’s gospel is historically nil. You might want to review the reviews before using it again.

    And bleeding hosts? Give us break!!! Might want to check the credentials of said forensic “scientist”.

  • Bernardo

    Max,

    Again, you might want to check the authenticity of the passages you cite.

  • Greg1

    Buy the book and read it. Here is a statement on the book, and the situation that occurred in the Pope’s former diocese:
    http://www.spiritdaily.com/Hostagentina.htm

  • Bernardo

    Greg1,

    A book written by a brain-washed nun with no book reviews!! Very authoritative!!!

  • Greg1

    She is only reporting the statements of those in the diocese, and the forensic report of what cannot exist in the natural world as we know it. You can deny all day long, but our Lord has done this numerous times over the last 2000 years to get the attention of persons such as yourself. Here’s another one:
    http://www.michaeljournal.org/eucharist3.htm

  • Ben in oakland

    All you have to do is google “communion wafer transformed into human tissue” to find more examples than you can shake a thurible at. It took me 30 seconds to find three of them.

    One of the “experts” consulted said it was “human myocardial tissue STILL BEATING”. Don’t that beat all? Tissue doesn’t beat.

    Like the miracles at Fatima, Guadalupe, and Lourdes– why does Mary or The Immaculate Conception always appear to illiterate peasant children far away from verification– if your god were actually interested in performing a miracle for anyone but the gullible, why a “piece of communion wafer” far away from someplace that could actually test it, with a verifiable chain of possession?

  • Bernardo,

    “Check the authenticity…”

    I don’t think that is possible. As long as Christians use these preachments as their guide it won’t matter whether a real Jesus said them – I think it is more important to point out that they are violently contradictory.

    But if you have some information to clarify what Jesus actually said, I’m happy to see it.

    So far, every single thing Jesus appears to have said appears to be identical to things said in other Mystery Religions of the era.
    There are many reasons to think Jesus is a fictional character – I’m not saying he was – – I’m just saying there are good reasons to think he is an imaginary character from antiquity.

  • Greg1

    She appears to the lesser educated, because they could not contrive of such a hoaxes and have it fool the best there is out there. Only the ones that stand up to scientific scrutiny, and rigorous analysis, are acknowledged by the Church.

  • Bernardo

    You are on your own after this:

    Gerd Luedemann

    Luke 19: 27
    Luedemann [Jesus, 235] recognizes a “genetic connection” between the versions in Matthew and Luke, and see them both as deriving from Q. However he does not consider that it is possible to reconstruct the original parable “in view of the numerous elaborations by the [post Easter] community”

    Luke 23:34 (might want to give the passage you are citing in the future) See Professor Ludemann’s conclusions in his book Jesus After 2000 Years,pp. 404-406 i.e. historically nil.

    The problem is that good atheists like us need to be factual in our comments.

  • Bernardo,

    “Gerd Luedemann”

    Why is he your chosen authority on this question? You seem to be under the impression that there are hard facts somewhere in the Jesus story.

    I think Jesus was a fictional character. I don’t think any of the texts about Jesus are historically accurate on any question at all.
    In other words, a real Jesus didn’t say any of the things in the Bible as far as I can believe.

    Furthermore,
    I am addressing the claims of Christians. Not historians.
    If Christians claim they are following the preachings of a character in a Book it is my responsibility to show them at least where those preachings contradict.

    As long as Christians trap themselves int believing the New Testament is true, I will do my best to liberate them from the certainty of that ridiculous claim.
    And that is what a good Atheist does – he cares about people.

  • dmj76
  • larry

    ” Only the ones that stand up to scientific scrutiny, and rigorous analysis, are acknowledged by the Church.”

    Meaning those miracles with tourism industry value.

    The whole point of declaring something a miracle is to say it is beyond scientific scrutiny.

    The Fatima story has an interesting intersection with the bloodiest year of the Great War. A war which Portugal was a combatant in. Not exactly the most uplifting time for mankind. A ripe period for any kind of positive mythical news. Perfect for religious hysteria.

  • Bernardo

    Max,

    No, a good atheist shows Christians that their manual is full of embellishments and myths. But there was a Jesus with sufficient proof of it and actually more proof than a lot of historical characters in Jesus’ time and before.

  • Bernardo

    Dick Cheney? No, Bill Clinton takes the title of Satan.

  • Bernardo,

    ” …more proof than a lot of historical characters in Jesus’ time and before”

    No. I can’t agree to that claim.

    We know much more about Marcus Aurelius and Julius Caesar than we know about Jesus. In fact, the name “Jesus” is used so loosely and in such contradictory ways – we don’t even know which Jesus of the era the Bible is referring to:

    These famous people lived at the same exact time as Jesus:

    Jesus ben Phiabi,
    Jesus ben Sec,
    Jesus ben Damneus
    Jesus ben Gamaliel.

    Which of them (if any) was the true Jesus?
    Please show me evidence and explain why it proves a particular Jesus existed.

    The more you read, the less believable it becomes…

    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm

  • Dr. Cajetan Coelho

    Patient struggle – the way forward. May God reward us with the holy gift of patience in these times of speed and race towards nowhere.

  • Bernardo

    Nice words but your god does not exist. Never did and never will.

  • Greg1

    We might actually see Fatima come to pass in our lifetimes; everything else stated in that apparition has come to pass.

  • Larry

    “everything else stated in that apparition has come to pass.”

    Well no. Everything has been altered to fit what has come to pass. Like all prophetic musings. When it turns out to be wrong, it just gets revised.

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