Planned Parenthood’s problems go far beyond whether it sells organs (COMMENTARY)

Print More
Planned Parenthood Federation president Cecile Richards is sworn in before she testifies before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on Capitol Hill in Washington September 29, 2015.   REUTERS/Gary Cameron     - RTS29PD

Planned Parenthood Federation president Cecile Richards is sworn in before she testifies before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on Capitol Hill in Washington September 29, 2015. REUTERS/Gary Cameron - RTS29PD

Active RNS subscribers and members can view this content by logging-in here.

(RNS) Americans are slowly but surely waking up to a new reality: Planned Parenthood's leadership is shady and dishonest, and the organization depends on the violence of abortion for revenue.

  • Larry

    I guess the author didn’t like being called out on his veracity impaired sources. But again here it is.

    The author cites to Lifeactionnews (the source of the hoax videos) for the notion that PP somehow violated federal law. This is the same group which has been involved in NUMEROUS hoaxes trying to attack Planned parenthood. But somehow they are taken at face value here. Every outside source not associated with the right-wingnutsphere has found no wrong doing here.

    Defunding was a non-starter because the anti-abortion crowd in Congress embarrassed themselves with distorted presentation of facts, phony arguments, and numerous times when they were caught flat out fibbing. It was a witch hunt from the start and PP comported themselves professionally, truthfully and calmly in the face of it.

    The most logic-impaired argument being “they can go elsewhere”.
    1. It does not diminish the phony nature of the attacks on PP
    2. Reducing #’s of clinics helps poor women, how?

  • Religion News Service welcomes all views, presented in a civil manner. Please post one comment only. Offer your view on the article or issue at hand, not on other commenters. Additional comments by the same person will be removed to maintain a thoughtful comment space where new voices — including people with whom you may disagree — can have their say.

  • Grace

    Good gracious. A Catholic ethicist rides out on a high horse to (surprise!) find Planned Parenthood shady and immoral. Thanks professor, but I’m a woman who is completely delighted with the compassionate care I’ve received from my local Planned Parenthood affiliate, and I am a Christian who believes women should be allowed to make decisions about contraception and abortion without your interference. Right now, Planned Parenthood is helping me do that, and I plan to donate and march to continue to support them.

    If we’re going to play gotcha games with misstatements of Planned Parenthood officials, let’s go over those tapes again. Seems to me others have some ‘splainin to do.

    Your goals, (though I know you’d prefer not to discuss contraception here as you’ll lose support at this juncture), are to prevent access and shame women seeking abortion and contraception. How about a little truth on your end?

  • Bernardo

    Conclusion: The failures of the widely used birth “control” methods i.e. the Pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions and STDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the pill or condoms properly and/or use other methods in order to reduce the near epidemics of abortion and STDs.

  • Evie

    Grace, as a Christian, how can you be okay with the murder of children God willed into existence? Either you believe God is NOT the author of life (evident in scripture) or you think one of the 10 Commandments, the one that’s so obvious it makes it into the majority of nation’s laws, is totally fine to commit??

  • Religion News Service welcomes all views, presented in a civil manner.
    Please post one comment only.
    Additional comments by the same person will be removed to maintain a thoughtful comment space where new voices — including people with whom you may disagree — can have their say.

  • Mary

    Larry- What, specifically, is the hoax? At what point in particular is something misrepresented? What has bee changed, altered or misconstrued? Where is something said that isn’t what it appears to be? Tell me what, exactly, about those videos stood out to you as false when you reviewed them yourself? How were they altered or falsified? What was represented falsely by tampering that isn’t true? First, watch them. Don’t be afraid. It is ok to know.

  • Bernardo

    But with the comments listed to 1000 characters how is one able to properly debate or inform the author of the article properly???

    Once again and attempt to bring to light a very serious situation:

    Conclusion: The failures of the widely used birth “control” methods i.e. the Pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions and STDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or condoms properly and/or use other more reliable methods in order to reduce the near epidemics of abortion and STDs.

  • Phil

    You’re right “sick abuse of the language” is deplorable. For example calling an unborn child a fetus in order to separate the two so as to justify killing it.

  • John

    Larry, Your rationalizations are in line with those of all holocaust deniers. Even when the information comes from the mouths of the perpetrators themselves you cling to your denial. Fact is that no amount of denial changes the body count of this holocaust which in the U.S. alone is north of 56 million. It is the killing of those human beings that are discussed in the videos.

  • Rita Reitsma

    Larry, you have in head in the sand. Planned Parenthood hired its’ own experts to examine the videos. Their own experts found no evidence of manipulation in the recordings. Furthermore, redirecting federal funds to other clinics (who do provide mammograms and more comprehensive health care to women) will not reduce the # of clinics to help women. The attacks on PP are not phoney.

  • Ann E

    Continence used be the norm among unmarried people. Entering into Marriage conveyed the expectation of parenthood for most people. Where did we go wrong?

  • Carl Diederichs

    In the United States of America the legal question of abortion has become settled law. I am opposed to abortion, but I cannot look to the state to have my religious views reinforced.

    And we know from history that whether we had a legal ruling or not, abortions will take place.

    I hold that, as with other critical teachings of Jesus, we as a church make our case in the marketplace and continue to reach out to women who may need our love and support to bring their baby to term.

    It is so wrong for politicians and others to say they are against abortion with the implication that they can somehow change the law of the land. Be against abortion, as I am, and respect the law of the land, but do not exercise your option to abort legally.

  • Rita Reitsma

    Larry, I find it telling that no matter how many lies PP is caught in, (i.e. Cecile Richards says in an interview that they provide mammograms, has to admit on capital hill that they do not provide mammograms and says she never claimed they did-mmmmm I wonder if you think the interview where she says they provide mammograms has been manipulated! lol) a segment of society that has a very definite agenda will continue to deny that they have committed any wrong doing. Wake up Larry, the emperor has no clothes.

  • “federally certified community health centers provide a nonviolent, comprehensive and affordable alternative for poor women.”

    Do these community health centers provide abortions? If not, then why pretend that they’re alternatives?

  • Tanya Wersinger

    thanks John, just what I was thinking, deny the holocaust, deny that children are being murdered and used as a product for the profit of a slaughter house. Interesting how folks who have swallowed the lie, propagate it to others , hoping to win new converts to a cause which is evil.

  • Magdalene

    Everything PP does facilitates sin and evil. They go into schools to indoctrinate children in sex education (how to). They are there to give them ‘birth control’ as they encourage sex at an early age. The final hoped result is the abortion door where about $500 – many thousands of dollars can be gleaned. Former PP directors admit giving low dose pills and cheap condoms because eventually they tend to fail. The encouragement of early sex leads to increased STDs. Abortion and the pill contribute to cancers. It goes on and on. It is all about the blood money. It is an evil, evil organization from the pit of hell.

    And what are lies when you murder for money?

  • Larry

    Way to misrepresent the facts here, again.
    “Planned Parenthood performs gynecological exams, including breast exams, and refers women to other facilities to have mammograms performed, much like women are referred to radiological centers by their gynecologists or primary care physicians.”

    “In addition to mammogram referrals, the group says it helps low-income patients find grants and assistance to pay for mammograms, such as through the National Breast and Cervical Cancer Early Detection Program”

    “Women rely on Planned Parenthood for referrals for and financial help with mammograms and specialized diagnostic follow-up tests (like ultrasounds and biopsies) when indicated by age, history and/or clinical breast exam.”

    … “for many women,” Planned Parenthood is their only health care provider and “thus the only way they will get a referral for a mammogram.””

  • Larry
  • Larry

    The hearings came up a big goose egg for those looking to defund planned parenthood.

    “GOP Chair: No Evidence Of Misconduct By Planned Parenthood”

    “Chaffetz, a candidate for House speaker, grilled Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards during a five-hour hearing last week. …

    But after all that, he concluded that Planned Parenthood isn’t doing anything sketchy with its money. “Did we find any wrongdoing? The answer was no,” Chaffetz said.”

    Although you are entitled to an opinion, the problem the anti-abortion crowd faces is that nobody has to take their opinion seriously under color of law without rational and secular reasons. (see 1st A. Establishment Clause) They never have either. Plus they like to make stuff up constantly to support their position.

  • Elisabeth Bunnell


  • Elisabeth Bunnell

    The major issue is that ALL videos have been edited and manipulated!
    One of the most egregiously ouragious examples is the allegation showing an alleged aborted fetus that is actually pics/video of a atillborn baby which was taken WITHOUT the mother’s permission!

  • Elisabeth Bunnell

    That is blatantly FALSE!!!

  • Elisabeth Bunnell


  • Patricia Sinnott

    Larry check out Fusion GPS, the organization hired by PP that claims the videos were “highly edited” There is no information about them on their website other than one page with an email contact. Who owes them? Who funds them? Who are they? Then check out Coalfire the independent digital security organization with clients like Amazon, Intuit, GoDaddy and many more. You can read all about the organization on their website. They found the videos to be true. They saw all the edited out stuff which included bathroom breaks and eating food finding nothing odd. Which organization would you believe? Additionally a judge then ordered Congress to watch the videos and guess what the PP supporters refused. How can you blindly refuse to see the truth? Even if you believe in an organization you should want them to be the very best they can be. The Catholic Church had to face this and is better for it. Don’t you want PP to be a better or will you continue to be in denial?

  • Ron

    Elisabeth…I believe the mother although initially not giving her permission has since announced her support for this.
    You sound like you’re in denial. Abortion is violence against women and children. These videos are on-line for everyone to see. Margaret Sanger’s Planned Parenthood is a racist, sexist ‘more from the fit less from the fit’ organization which under the cover of ‘choice’ (it’s a girl/boy not a choice) claims to help women when in fact it exploits and degrades the dignity of women. The result for many are years of regret and depression not to forget the breast cancer/abortion link which ends women’s lives early. But there is hope. Nothing is impossible with God.

  • Ron

    Larry…More from the fit less from the unfit – Planned Parenthood found these videos deceptive?…Surprise, surprise! And the far left wing NY Times, Media Matters, etc. concurred? Wonders never cease.

  • Ron

    ‘I am opposed to abortion, but I cannot look to the state to have my religious views reinforced.”
    Replace “I am opposed to slavery” and see if you feel the same way.

  • Larry

    You are giving me conjecture and conspiracy theories rather than factually supported rebuttal.

    You are the second person to repeat the same untruth. Experts found the videos presented to the public to be heavily edited and misrepresented what was said between subjects. The FULL LENGTH UNEDITED videos showed nothing of what was alleged. That was revealed on day one of the scandal and ignored accordingly by the anti-abortion crowd.

    The heavily anti-abortion biased Congressional committee holding the hearing had access to the full video and its edited version. In the end, THEY FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING ON THE PART OF PP. If anything you were saying bore the remotest resemblance to an actual fact, that would not have been the case.

    How many times do you have to repeat the same nonsense?

  • Larry

    Only if fetuses were born people capable of independent existence without affecting the bodily autonomy of others.

    The problem with analogy is you have to find things that are actually analogous.

  • Larry

    Guess what Ron?

    The Congressional hearing didn’t find evidence of wrongdoing on the part of PP either. Like you, they were heavily biased against abortion rights. But unlike you, they had to present evidence in a public forum which was being recorded for all to see.

  • Larry

    So you admit the videos were made by people misrepresenting the truth, but they can’t be so bad since they oppose abortion.

    Pretty much everything you have described about PP and abortion is complete (but often repeated fiction).

    Good old religious morality. Anything is moral if you claim God sanctions it. After all, why be honest when you can be self-righteous?

  • Patricia

    Larry please name the “experts”? The two investigative companies are FusionGPS and Coalfire. Compare the two companies online. You can do your own research on this one just Google them. Which one should the public believe? The “experts” that refuse to tell who they are that work for PP or the independent “experts” with the 20 year record of forensic data analysis, who list who they are and has a long list of respectable clients, and states the videos are true. Which one is lying?

  • Larry

    The links to the articles I reference on the subject are in prior responses. Feel free to check them out.

    What part of, “THEY FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING ON THE PART OF PP” did you not understand?

    These congressional hearings were commenced by blatantly biased anti-abortion pundits who had access to the same information you are talking about. Yet they had to own up to the truth of the matter. They had to subject their allegations and evidence to a public forum where the organization accused was given the opportunity of rebutting them. There was nothing to support the allegations leveled against PP.

    Trying to re-fight lost battles by making up stuff seems to be a habit of ultra-conservative Christian types.

  • Patricia

    “They” “Experts” name them please. I just want to know if you know the name of “they and experts” Did you do a 5 minute online search of FusionGPS? Coalfire? If not you’re practicing willful ignorance. These are the two companies are the sited experts. One hides the other doesn’t.

  • Patricia

    Are you kidding me, referrals? Oh sure poor women should get on another bus and go somewhere else for a mammogram. After all what else do they have to do in their lives. Or she can simply use her government health care and see a doctor about all of her physical needs.

  • Larry


    Are you trying to say that the Congressional hearing didn’t vet the videos? Didn’t have experts looking at it.

    They saw the same stuff as you do. But somehow these ANTI-ABORTION REPUBLICANS found no wrongdoing on the part of PP based on the evidence you are harping on.

    By all means keep yourself in denial. 🙂

  • Larry-

    Patricia, you obviously have no familiarity with health insurance coverage outside of a PPO plan. Unlike PPO plans, Medicaid requires referrals for diagnostic testing. Planned Parenthood’s federal funding is Medicaid reimbursement.

  • larry

    So what you are telling me is you don’t know how HMOs or medicaid cover diagnostic testing of any kind. All those systems require referrals for any major tests. PP even subsidized testing.

  • Ron

    You’re in denial Larry. Planned Parenthood makes millions off of little dead baby girls/boys and exploits women.

  • Ron

    An unrepeatable human life begins at conception. From embryo, fetus, child to adult it’s all merely stages of development and maturation. And there are many people alive today who are not capable of independent existence who are definitely human.

  • Ron

    Who is self-righteous Larry? Who is deciding who should live or die or whose life is worth living? Who is playing God?
    I don’t believe I’m the one judging what gets to live or die.

  • Junebug

    Larry, thank you for your efforts to present true facts although you know they fall on deaf ears. You are not judging those who disagree IMHO – you are simply advocating for freedom of conscience. As Barry Goldwater said, “you can’t legislate morality”. There could never be a consensus of agreement and theocracy doesn’t work very well in the land of the free. Abortion, contraception, et. al. are best suited for the medical profession and individual consciences. As a Christian who cherishes my freedom, I would not deny others the same and my bible says “do unto others………”.

  • Patricia

    Abortion is an extremely violent act commited against a woman and her child. The children’s body parts shown in those videos are proof of how violent abortion is. These children were resting and growing safely in their mother’s womb when they were attacked and killed. That viiolence took place within the woman’s body. Abortion hurts and maimes women.

  • Rachael’s vineyard lady

    How much money do you make from PP Larry. You must benefit in some way to push these lies. Forensic evidence HAS proven that these 10 videos were NOT doctored in any way. These people in these videos even admit their guild. Blood money might help you on this earth but woe to those, in the next life, who harm or support harm to any of these little ones. Abortion not only murders innocent children, it also leave an indelible mark on the soul of those who participate in it. They can’t live with themselves for killing their own child and end up with many psychological and subst. abuse problems afterward. I work with these women years afterward….I know.

  • Larry

    Patricia, you obviously have no idea how HMO’s or Medicaid works. All diagnostic testing REQUIRES referrals under those plans. A woman on Medicaid can’t get a mammogram without one.

  • To all the fetus worshiping anti-abortion nabobs here:

    A committee comprised entirely of anti-abortion Republicans using a public forum where evidence could be presented and challenged went after PP based on all of these allegations that they were doing something illegal or medically unethical.


    You can all go eff yourselves.

    You had nothing. If there was something to be found, those politicians dependent on the anti-abortion vote were motivated to find it. This group of people knowingly biased against PP, faced with public disclosure of arguments and evidence found nothing. This means nothing was to be found. Since none of you (including the author) acknowledged this, it renders your arguments dishonest by omission.

    What the hearings showed is you guys are willing to make up any story or misrepresent any facts to get to your end point, attacking abortion rights.

  • As long as it lives inside a womb, its an irrelevancy. Unless you are advocating that all pregnant women must be forcibly restrained until they come to term. As long as its in her body, your input is unnecessary nor welcomed. Her will keeps it alive, her will is the only thing that is relevant here.. If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one.

  • You are entitled to your opinion. But it is one not supported by anything resembling a fact. The only one in denial is the person who is ignoring the findings of the Republican instituted congressional panel.

    They found no evidence of wrongdoing despite desperately looking for some.

  • Ron

    Larry….So where a person resides determines whether they are allowed to live?
    But you’re forgetting someone. There is another body involved, with a different blood type (my son) different eye color (my daughters) which has a right not to be executed because of someone’s will.
    And if I don’t like abortion don’t have one? You could substitute any numerous human rights violations for abortion. Destroying a life is always wrong, especially someone who cannot speak for themselves.

  • Ron

    No evidence? Are you serious. I guess that’s why PP announced it will no longer sell the little girls/boys baby parts to the highest bidder. It ain’t over yet. All evil fails.

  • larry

    Sort of like if you announced you have stopped lying to support anti abortion position. 🙂

    Never happened.

  • larry

    Yep. Until his autonomous existence there is no way you can equate it with a born being. Your opinion about its development is an irrelevance. It doesn’t require your body to survive, therefore your input has no relevance.

    All you can do is engage in hysterics, s1utshaming and emotional appeals. But at the end of the day, its in her body, its none of your business.

  • Tony

    Hillary Clinton is in the “right-wingnutsphere”?

  • TellstheTruth

    Just because abortion is “legal” does not make it right.

  • Mark

    Would you mind helping me understand your position a little more?
    How old are you?
    Have you had any babies of yours aborted?
    What is it you find of redeeming value about Planned Parenthood

  • Mark

    Uh Larry. You need to live by your own rules. This isn’t an analogy.

    So autonomy not impinging on someone else is your criteria to let someone live? How about
    Severely mentally impaired.

    You sir are engaging in both hysterics and illogical thinking.

  • TA

    Larry ~ With regard to abortion specifically, the Truth is this… Abortion will NEVER “help” women or their babies. If Planned Parenthood or “any other clinic” commits abortion…it has committed murder… abortion will always be murder…plain and simple… it is NOT a choice… it is death. I hope we find a way to embrace LIFE…. Everyone has a “right” to live whether they are young or old and that should not be for another person to decide. We don’t have a “right” to kill another human being. We ALL have a human “right to live.”

  • Chris

    Doesn’t Obamacare cover women who need medical help? Why does everyone have to go to PP to receive care?

  • TA

    Grace- I am a woman too but I will never support Planned Parenthood. Abstinence, natural family planning, condoms and pills are considered by most to be contraception…Abortion…well that is NOT contraception…it is just murder….THAT is the truth. There is nothing compassionate towards a mother or her child when killing/aborting a baby for contraception…I don’t care how many times they smile at you and tell you what you want to hear. Also, anyone who has seen the many, many, many Planned Parent videos, can clearly see the Abortion “business” is a lucrative business for Planned Parenthood. Can anyone stop this travesty on human life? Only time will tell. I hope we pray for all involved!

  • Chris

    We ought to pray for people in the pro-choice industry, especially the ones on the front lines who do the procedures and dissecting. I would guess it is difficult to face that on a daily basis.

  • Patti

    The videos show how horribly violent abortion is. It is one of the most violent acts committed against a mother and her child. There is nothing ‘right’ about abortion.

  • Bernardo

    The facts, not the lies:

    Regarding abortion: the nitty-gritty:

    Obviously, most abortions start by having unsafe s-ex. What however is not apparent to most se-xually active individuals.
    From Guttmacher:
    • 64% of reproductive-age women who practice contraception use reversible methods, such as oral contraceptives or condoms. The remaining women rely on female or male sterilization.[2]
    Percentage of women experiencing an unintended pregnancy:
    Some examples
    Pill (combined)……… 8.7 (resulting in ~one millon unplanned pregnancies, calculations based on the data from Guttmacher,
    Tubal sterilization ……0.7
    Male co-ndom ……….17.4 (resulting in ~one million unplanned pregnancies calculations as noted above…
    Continued from above:
    Vas-ectomy…………… 0.2
    IUD (Copper-T)……….1.0
    (Ma-sturbation mono or dual)………. 0

  • Larry

    Because Obamacare is not Medicaid. PP’s federal funding takes the form of Medicaid reimbursement.

    Obamacare insurers are regular run of the mill health insurance providers, the only difference being . Many of them are the same companies that insure people as employment benefits.

    Medicaid is health insurance as public assistance (like welfare). Many doctors don’t take it because there are fee limits on services imposed on those who accept it. So they go to PP.

  • Or you can actually read about what they go through. Their biggest complaint being how anti-abortion people harass them, use phony legal pretenses to attack their services, the death threats, the blatant misinformation about them and those who use their services.

    Or you can continue to pretend to understand what they do and why they do it.

  • To pretend that a parapalegic or mentally disabled person are in the same condition as a fetus is to show a disregard for relevant facts.

    Unlike a fetus, one can act in their interests of all those bad analogy examples you used without attacking the bodily autonomy of another born human being. One cannot protect a fetus without attacking its mother. No born person has such a situation.

    Until you can take possession of a fetus from a woman, you will never be able to act in its interest.

    This is why abortion is not the same as infanticide or euthanasia. Conceivably any human being can keep a born person alive, only the mother’s will keeps a fetus alive.

    There really isn’t anything rational to support the anti-abortion view. Its just emotional appeals, s1utshaming, blatant misinformation and religious hysterics.

  • TA: You are entitled to your opinion, but nobody has to take it seriously under color of law. Don’t have an abortion then. Nobody is forcing you to.

    You really don’t want to think your position through very clearly. Born people are of no concern for you. You consider yourself of such great moral character that all women must defer to you for their personal decisions. Very narcissistic of you.

    Abortion rights are an acknowledgement that such decisions are none of your business. Its in her body, it will always be her will alone which matters here. If you don’t like that, tough luck. That is the price of not being the sum of all things to all people.

  • “How old are you?
    Have you had any babies of yours aborted?”

    Why? So you can sling ad hominem attacks? Get bent,

    “What is it you find of redeeming value about Planned Parenthood”

    I find nothing redeeming in the anti-abortion position. It attacks born people. It is narcissistic. It lacks any rational basis. Its proponents are dishonest as heck.

    One cannot engage it without intentionally demeaning and attacking women for being pregnant. Its also dangerously ineffective. Banning abortion only makes it more dangerous and expensive. People still have them regardless of legal prohibition. But such an issue involves concern for born people. Something the anti-abortion crowd does not have.

    You want to continue to pretend you are of such great moral character that all women must defer to you for their personal decisions, so be it. But it is delusional to think it has to be taken seriously.

  • Ron

    Killing someone is evil. Lying to cover it up is evil. Who is the liar?

  • Ron

    “Sort of like if you announced you stopped lying to support anti-abortion (anti-baby killing) position”…The truth will set you free but since you are blinded by falsehood unless the scales fall from your eyes….With God all things are possible. I’m hoping for a St. Paul conversion.

  • George Nixon Shuler

    If you think the NYT is “left wing” you’re in a fantasy world. It’s the house organ of the CIA, duh.

  • George Nixon Shuler

    No. Just like lying, adultery, cussing, etc. The issue is whether or not it should be criminalized, whether moral or not. Since it occurs at the same rate whether legal or illegal, prudence dictates it needs to remain safe and legal. Otherwise it’s just another big government boondoggle.

  • George Nixon Shuler

    By one measure; she’s certainly never been a bold advocate of social change. Like her husband and President Obama she is more properly understood as a centrist who eschews bold initiatives.

  • Ron

    Well, George, I don’t believe safe and legal applies to those pesky little girls/boys in the womb who are about to be executed.

  • Marcia Castro

    The videos have been proven by 2 companies, one hired by Planned Parenthood to be legitimate. The only thing edited out were bathroom breaks and when no one was talking, sich as when they were eating. This was proven and entered into the congressional hearing records!

  • Marcia Castro

    You can call your local Breast Cancer organization like l did and got a referral to a Catholic hospital which charged me $0 for my mammogram when l was waiting for my Medicare to kick in and was without healthcare. Not only did l get a free mammogram, l received a complete physical and blood work for free!

  • Larry

    That’s nice but irrelevant. It does not negate that PP offers similar services and takes Medicaid.

    Nor that shutting down PP reduces the options for women in many areas. Plus Catholic hospitals are notorious for letting religious dogma take precedence over medical ethics.

    The “they can go elsewhere” argument is brain-dead here as it is when Bible thumpers try to justify discrimination in open commerce. You don’t like PP, then don’t use their services. Other people have no such objections.

  • Bernardo


    No it is not free assuming you pay federal taxes i.e. those funds that pay for all that “free” stuff.