• Susan

    Fran, “Messianic Jews” are not Jews, they are deluded. What you want would create a world with no Jews in it. I call it spiritual genocide. Israel would be a Jewish state with no Jews.

    Of course, Mr. Thalasinos did not deserve to be killed for his beliefs, no one does. That doesn’t change the fact that he was just plain wrong.

  • Garson Abuita

    These kinds of stories are why RNS is needed. Lauren, thank you for your concise explanation of Messianic Judaism and how mainstream Judaism does not consider it a part of Judaism. The JfJ spokeswoman stated that the deceased was a Gentile. That just proves what Jewish organizations have been saying all along: JfJ is an evangelical front organization. Their members are not necessarily any more Jewish, ethnically or otherwise, than any other Christian.

  • Nancy

    The Jewish victim was certainly right about the Obama administration. The president is right to craft a public narrative that is designed to bring calm to the matter by publicly stating that ISIS doesn’t represent the religion faithfully and this is not a war against the religion – something you can’t win because you can’t fight an intangible enemy. However, while he makes these statements, we all know it isn’t true. We ARE at war with Islam because the religion itself is just as legalistic and anti-american as the terrorists – the only difference is a difference in degrees.

    He just can’t say it publicly.

  • Daniel

    That was a story Jesus was telling. The words you quoted where those of the nobleman in the story. Its always good to check the context.

  • Daniel

    So if a Jew like Paul becomes a follower of Jesus, as thousands have, they become Chinese or something?

  • Doug Davis

    Please read the entire chapter. Starting with verse 11 Jesus is telling the “parable” of The Ten Minnas. The person spoke of is not Jesus, but this person: “He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’”

    You have to do better than this. Read the gospels. Christianity is about the love, grace and forgiveness of our heavenly father through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

  • Larry

    Pretty much.

    Because unlike the days of Paul, there is this big religion that grew from the teachings of Jesus which has grown separately and is materially distinctive and different from Judaism as it is practiced today.

    Just like if you become a follower of Mohamed, you no longer usually call yourself a Christian.

  • GB

    Comments are comments.
    Radical Islamic Terrorists are Deadly.

  • Ruth A. Rosen

    You seem to be defining Jews as people who embrace “Judaism as it is practiced today.” I think many Jewish people with a strong Jewish identity would take exception to that, be they secular Jews, or Jews for Jesus. I’m not even sure if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would be Jews by your definition. 🙂

    As a Jew for Jesus, I find religious institutions of less interest than getting to the heart of what God wants from us and for us. Religion isn’t the same as faith. Religious traditions and rituals are meant to point to a real relationship with God. I think for some people (Jewish as well as Gentile) those rituals have replaced the reality.

  • Samuel Pepys

    Jews are permitted to criticise and diss anyone they like, with impunity and total immunity. Jews, however, are protected from criticism.

    This fellow Thalasinos clearly upset the shooter with his pro-Israel, anti-Islam rhetoric and attacks.

    Messianic Jews are rather confused. They are NOT Christian.

  • Samuel Pepys

    Radical Zionists and Jews aren’t too flash themselves. They’re responsible for murdering and killing far more people than radical Muslims are.

  • Larry

    Because it is really the only honest description if one is considering Judaism as a religious belief. Christianity is a different, and distinct religious belief.

    I am not a big fan of the notion of defining Jewish by ethnicity. It smacks too much of an imposed definition. There is the old notion that anti-Semites don’t really give a damn whether one is a practicing Jew or a secular one. Jewish parentage is all they care about. Nazis would have shot Jews for Jesus, secular Jews and Haredi alongside each other. (if Jews for Jesus existed back then). It made no difference to them.

    Judaism as it exists now is distinct from how it was before the Diaspora. It is distinct from how the Bible describes how the Hebrews/Judeans worshiped or believed. That being said, I consider JFJ as a proselytizing tool for Christianity.

  • Samuel Pepys

    When does the love, grace and forgiveness commence? I’ve not seen a shred of evidence that it’s available now or at any time in our past.

  • Fran

    Many Jews became Christians in the first century after Jesus died, according to the book of Acts.

    At least modern-day “messianic Jews” acknowledge that Jesus is rightfully the Messiah! Great for them! It’s up to Jews today whether they will ever accept Jesus and his upcoming messianic rule or not. They have the free will will, as does everyone else on the planet, to do so, and no one is forcing them. Mr. Thalasonis was definitely right, and he should be rewarded for his faith in the Messiah, even until his death.

  • Fran

    Their days are numbered, but only by God’s messianic kingdom with Jesus as King (Isaiah 11:4).

  • Hello My family and friends in FB, I feel the need to express my unconditional support, alliance,love and friendship to the Land of Israel ,its people, their Righteousness as true owners of that Land give to them by The LORD Hashem HIMSELF , then unlawfully evicted by the swarm of evil gentile Bastards and robbed of their possessions, dissipated throughout the world, insulted, discriminated, beaten,raped, hated and murdered with the compliance and indifference of the careless rest of the world,even to this day the muslim radicals, fascist and extremists still a deadly threat not only to the jewish people but to the rest of the world as well,open your Eyes and see the truth before is to late “As a gentile who loves HaShem, I know my place is to support Israel and the Jewish people.” May the LORD be with us.

  • James

    “We” aren’t at war with Islam. Islam is at war with itself, a civil war. To over-simplify it, it’s a war between modern & traditional interpretations of Islam.

    Christian apologists talk about how slavery was ‘different’ in biblical times to blunt the brutality the Bible evokes in our modern minds. Islam is in the midst of this process & it could go on for generations. When Christians discuss unflattering parts of the Bible: at first it’s denial; then, when confronted w/ proof, it’s a dizzying maze of apologetics or outright dismissal.

    Modern secular Muslims have completed this ‘blunting’ process & traditional, more literal interpretations of Islam are seen in the context of the brutal tribal world in which Islam was born.

    Islamists fuse religion w/ politics & that is the real danger. They use the mix to enhance their power & lend their regime credibility (e.g. Shia Iran & Sunni Saudi Arabia), but it’s a trap. A trap that sets them on a collision course w/ the…

  • GB

    Please provide any facts you may have to support your assertion.
    Thank you.

  • Jack

    Susan, the victim was .Gentile, not Jewish. Read the article again.

  • Jack

    Samuel, you are so deluded, you must be deranged.

  • Jack

    Samuel, last time I checked, we live in a free country where people aren’t supposed to get shot and killed for stating their opinions.

    If that makes you uncomfortable, you have a whole host of countries whose people and governments feel the same way as you. Nobody’s holding you here.

  • Jack

    Excellent, Marco. Just one thing, though. Not all Muslims are radicals and some are even pro-Israel….not enough, for sure, but some are.

    But great post.

  • Jack

    Larry and Ruth, you’re both trying to do the impossible — define who’s a Jew in a neat little way. Ruth, you’re more on target by focusing on peoplehood over religion, but the peoplehood arose from a religious context. The story of the Jewish people is inseparable from a religious context.

    Am I saying that Jews who reject Judaism aren’t Jews? No, because that means Jewish atheists or agnostics aren’t Jews.

    So technically, sure, Jews who believe in Jesus or Buddha or any religion other than Judaism are Jews.

    But….as Larry implied, it’s hard to leapfrog over 17 centuries of Judaism and Christianity becoming not only two separate religions, but two separate communities and even nations, at least in Europe.

    So maybe the answer about whether Jews who believe in Jesus are still Jews is — no and yes….No from a communal standpoint, yes from a historical, first-century pre-split perspective.

  • Jack

    James, the Bible’s view of slavery is a lot more complex than most people realize, partly because there were at least two definitions of it — first, the brutal chattel slavery we’re all familiar with, but second, a temporary situation almost akin to indentured servant hood.

  • Jack

    We are at war with a radical interpretation of Islam, one that really is a hodgepodge of strict Koranic literalism and, ironically, a uniquely modern, totalitarian approach to politics and society, an approach which is genocidal in nature, as seen in its other manifestations, like Nazism or Stalinism.

  • Jack

    Actually, Sue, you don’t have to be a Jehovah’s Witness (I’m certainly not) to take Bible prophecy seriously. To say it’s been accurate is an understatement.

    A great example is the Book of Isaiah foretelling the rise & career of King Cyrus the Great of Persia — nearly two centuries before he came on the scene. The book calls him out by name.

    Skeptics have tried to get around Isaiah’s prophetic abilities on Cyrus & other matters by saying there were at least two Isaiahs contributing to the Book of Isaiah — the historical one who did write two centuries before Cyrus, and somebody else who wrote after the events happened.

    This would make the second one a liar — and a poor one, given that nobody believes a prophet who foretells after the fact. But more than that, the whole book is the work of one of the greatest literary geniuses of antiquity. The chance that there were two such people at work, with similar styles in the same book, strains credulity.

  • Sue

    Actually, Jack, that Cyrus “prediction” turns out to have been made after the event, not before it. Other so-called prophecies in the bible have been flat out wrong. See here http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies. It would be overly positive to say it has been hit and miss on the predictive front, and it’s rather telling that the bible has not told any recent event correctly with a correct date and other specifics. You’ve been fooled, like so many other fools.

    There’s no “genius” to the bible. Just a mishmash of stories by many human authors.

  • Sue

    It has a lot in common with Christianity, considering all that cult’s history of violence.

  • Ted

    If the lord is with you, he sure ain’t lifting his big fingers to help out! Not even a pinkie. And don’t start the “god helps those who…” line. If it don’t help, it ain’t worth a kneel.

  • Jack

    Sue, first of all, even atheist and agnostic scholars who know biblical Hebrew say that the writer of Isaiah is a literary master who ranks among the greatest of antiquity. You have to be quite a bug-eyed fanatic and ideologue not to admire the literary quality of a person’s work when it’s that high.

    As for it being written after the fact, the problem is that Isaiah was a historical person who lived 200 years before the fact. The burden is on you to prove there just happened to be a second Isaiah with the same literary prowess as the first, who just happened to contribute to the exact same book but after the fact.

    Go ahead — I’m waiting.

    This is going to be lots of fun.

  • James

    I’m not sure how broad your definition of ‘radical’ is so I may agree w/ you there, but I’ll take issue w/ the notion that this is “a uniquely modern…approach to politics and society”.

    IMO, ISIS, & Islamist grps like them have a 2 pronged attack plan.
    1st they’re attempting to mimic Muhammad’s conquest of the Middle East by using a simplistic & literal interpretation of Islam to grab power w/ violence & then forcing ppl into submission. Sunni Islam doesn’t have a respected ‘Pope-like’ figure to ridicule these self-serving interpretations hatched in an ancient reality of unimaginable barbarity.

    The 2nd prong is scaring the West into persecuting all Muslims.If successful, this will increase radicalization further, swell ISIS’s ranks & rob secular Muslims of the chance to preach tolerance.Secular Muslims are our best chance at leading the rest of the Muslim community out of the darkness of the ancient past & into a peaceful coexistence w/ the rest of modern…

  • GB

    Spot on. And as we now know, this radical Islamic cell had been planning the terror attack against a soft target for over a year. Unfortunately, we will likely face more such cowardly
    acts in the near future. God Bless You and Keep You Safe.

  • Larry

    “Sue, first of all, even atheist and agnostic scholars who know biblical Hebrew say that the writer of Isaiah is a literary master who ranks among the greatest of antiquity.”

    Assumed appeal to authority, not a factual assertion.

    “As for it being written after the fact, the problem is that Isaiah was a historical person who lived 200 years before the fact. ”

    An assumption made based on no objective evidence whatsoever. The Bible is not proof of the veracity of its own texts. The burden is on the person who is claiming the miraculous even is true. Prophesy by its nature is miraculous and would require some credible explanation why it needs to be taken seriously outside of some more mundane explanation (misinterpretation, literary flourish, written post-facto).

    (When in doubt see David Hume)

  • Jack

    It would if it were the Middle Ages, but I hate to break it to you, Sue:

    You’re about eight centuries behind the times.

    You make Rip Van Winkle look like an insomniac.

  • Jack

    Thanks GB and you as well….

  • Jack

    Speak for yourself, Ted. God has blessed me immeasurably. And it sounds like Marco feels the same way about his life.

  • Jack

    What an ignoramus you are, Larry. If you want to stay ignorant, keep rejecting intellectual authority.

    Most knowledge depends on trusting experts in various fields. To reject their authority is to reject the trove of knowledge built up across the centuries. It’s a recipe for your mind staying dark and empty, resisting new ideas & discoveries, and new life.

    As for Isaiah, sorry, but he was a real person, and no, you don’t need corroboration to validate a text, religious or secular. It’s not the absence of corroboration but the presence of contradiction that refutes a text. If you dispute that rule of historical evidence, have it out with historians. Legal evidence works similarly.

    As for prophecy, if the writer accurately describes a person 200 years before a person is born, and calls him out by name, he has prophesized accurately. You need to show it was written after the fact. In this case, you can’t, so you lose.

  • Sue

    Jack, you can go on spewing all you want about the ancient past, but it is fraught with issues with dating accuracy, unreliable recording methods, questionable authoring, and so on. Plus selective evidence culling, given all the contradictions and the failed prophecies that you willfully try to brush aside. You are a very gullible person, and not a very bright one.

    So, enough of your foolish claptrap. Either show a prophecy from the bible of a single recent specific event, say within the past 2 decades, with specific dates and other event details as given in the bible prophecy, or I will not give any credence whatsoever to your claims of prophecy in the bible.

    Go ahead — I’m waiting.

    This is going to be lots of fun.

  • Sue

    No, that is part and parcel of violent Christian history as you have claimed it. The bible even proclaims worse violence than that.

  • Amy A.

    What a disgrace! A pathetic attempt to blame the victim. It makes me sick.
    This is America people! We have a right to express our opinions without some Jihadist murdering us. Hey, you write a book they don’t like, – they put you on the death list…..Hey, you make a film that insults Mr. Mo, -they put you on the death list…… Don’t you get it? They are trying to destroy the concept of Free Speech and Freedom of The Press! Don’t you get it? Trying to be nice to them and be their “friends.” will not save you. They don’t get the concept of western freedom, it insults them and their prophet. That’s why they do not belong in a democracy such as ours. Look at the way they treat women with their revolting Sharia. They keep saying “They are a religion of peace.” They are blowing smoke when they say that. Wake up!

  • Marco

    Just like he “blessed” all those kids who have cancer. Uhh, guess not.