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A gay priest reflects: ‘Why I can’t go back’

The Rev. Warren Hall leads a special Mass for couples renewing their vows on Valentine’s Day 2014 at the Chapel of the Immaculate Conception on Seton Hall University's South Orange campus. Photo by Frances Micklow/courtesy of The Star-Ledger

(RNS) “Will our parish leaders petition Cardinal Tobin to lift the suspension of Rev. Hall? This parishioner requests it.”

That comment was posted on my Twitter feed on Jan. 6, the day that Cardinal Joseph Tobin was formally installed as the new archbishop of Newark, where I have served as a Catholic priest for 27 years.

Rev. John J. Myers in 2008 as Archbishop of Newark. Photo courtesy of John O'Boyle/The Star-Ledger

The Rev. John J. Myers in 2008 as archbishop of Newark. Photo courtesy of John O’Boyle/The Star-Ledger

That was also the day that Archbishop John Myers, who had suspended me from priestly ministry for refusing to hide my identity as a gay man and for refusing to stop supporting others in the LGBT community, would be officially and completely retired.

I was very humbled and full of gratitude for the tweet from the parishioner, a member of Sts. Peter and Paul Church in Hoboken, N.J., where I had been serving until my suspension last Aug. 31. I had seen a few other postings expressing a similar sentiment since the announcement that Tobin would replace Myers, and I had been contacted by family members and friends asking the same question.

It has now been a year and a half since this whole saga began, when Archbishop Myers removed me from my job as chaplain at Seton Hall University in May 2015. He did this due to suspicions that a “NOH8” posting I made on Facebook standing against attacks on the LGBT community, plus my subsequent coming out as a gay man, reflected a “hidden agenda” that he claimed undermined Catholic teaching.

It has also been five months since Myers suspended me from all priestly ministry for my “disobedience” in continuing to be involved with that same work against LGBT discrimination.


READ: NJ priest suspended for supporting gay groups


That’s given me a lot of time to think about what would happen when a new archbishop came to Newark, and what my future would be.

But as I was contemplating it all the decision was effectively made for me, on Dec. 7. That’s when the Vatican issued a document reaffirming a 2005 instruction that gay men should not be admitted to the priesthood. Apparently, Pope Francis approved of the policy.

How he could assert this is as confusing as his famous “Who am I to judge?” comment when asked about gay men in the priesthood.

One of the reasons for the ban, per the latest document, is that “gay men find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women.”

I’m thinking I would like to go back to all the men and women who I’ve had the privilege to minister with and to over my 27 years of priestly service to ask if I was hindered in relating to them.

Apparently, the parishioner cited above would not think so. We should keep in mind that the original 2005 teaching came out at a time when gay priests were made scapegoats for the clergy sexual abuse crisis. Since then science and mental health studies have proved that very few acts of pedophilia in general are committed by gay men.

The activity for which I was suspended last August was related to my speaking publicly to LGBT Catholics and encouraging them to stay in the Catholic Church. Yes, I said stay IN the church!

And yes, I met with groups that do not necessarily agree with our teaching. But those are the places Jesus went. I believe that today is comparable to many other times in the church’s history when the tenets of its teachings came face to face with developments in society, and things became “messy.”


READ: Outcry greets Vatican decision to reaffirm ban on gay priests


Look at the Council of Jerusalem in the first century, when the debate was whether you had to convert to Judaism prior to becoming a Christian (you didn’t, they decided). Or when church authorities argued whether Catholics could marry non-Catholics. (They can, but to this day a Catholic who wants to marry a non-Catholic must request a “dispensation”!)

Those were challenging issues with strong emotions on all sides of the debate. We are again in one of those times in the church’s history, and like those previous eras there are strong emotions on all sides.

In May 2015, the Rev. Warren Hall was abruptly dismissed from his position as the popular campus chaplain at Seton Hall University in New Jersey because the Catholic archbishop of Newark said his advocacy against anti-gay bullying, and his identity as a gay man, undermined church teaching. Photo courtesy of Warren Hall

In May 2015, the Rev. Warren Hall was abruptly dismissed from his position as the popular campus chaplain at Seton Hall University in New Jersey because the Catholic archbishop of Newark said his advocacy against anti-gay bullying, and his identity as a gay man, undermined church teaching. Photo courtesy of Warren Hall

Is the language in the church’s teachings referring to same-sex attraction as “objectively disordered” and same-sex relations as an “intrinsic moral evil” offensive? I believe it is. Theologians will posit that these descriptors reference behavior and not the person but either way it’s still offensive.

So too was the language of the Good Friday Liturgy when it referred to the “perfidious Jews.” Pope John XXIII determined that the language was offensive to our Jewish brothers and sisters and he did not just change it but completely removed it from the Catholic lexicon.

Will the day come when “disordered” and “evil” referring to LGBT people are changed or, better, removed from Catholic teaching? I believe it will. But today is not that day. Therefore, until that day arrives, we have to keep discussing, debating and perhaps even being “disobedient.”

So, will I seek reinstatement as a priest in good standing?

I can’t, simply because I could not in good conscience take the Oath of Fidelity that all priests take upon ordination and when assuming a pastorate, namely, that I “accept and hold everything that is proposed by the hierarchy” and that I “adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings.”

I’m not talking about the matters of faith but matters of discipline. I’m sure pretty much all Catholics pick and choose what teachings to follow, and in a sense that’s what I’ll be doing when it comes to the church’s views on gay men and women.

But that teaching is hardly the most important one. I think the average Catholic wants the church to get back to the basics: feeding the hungry; clothing the naked; proclaiming the message of love, forgiveness and inclusion that Jesus taught his followers.

It’s a message the people are not hearing enough, and because of that their church is failing them and because of that many are abandoning their church, in droves! As bishops sit on their thrones the view has to be disturbing. What Cardinal Tobin saw from the altar at his new cathedral in Newark was a gathering of the faithful hoping for a kinder, gentler and more pastoral shepherd — and from all accounts they got one.

Yet as open as he is, I don’t believe the new archbishop can even make an offer to reinstate me. If he did it would be tantamount to a cardinal defying his own church’s teaching.

Also, I don’t think the church knows yet how to deal with openly gay men in active ministry, even those of us who observe our vows of chastity. I don’t think the church knows how to minister to its LGBT brothers and sisters, and it’s not yet trying to learn.

So I’ll continue to be Catholic, albeit the “pick-and-choose” kind, because I still love and have hope for my church. I have found a wonderful parish with terrific ministries, including one especially for its LGBT parishioners — I now count myself one of them.


READ: Gay priest fired from university gets new post at NJ parishes


At this point I consider myself a “former priest” and will just move on with life as a lay person. There will probably be some paperwork so the diocese is no longer legally responsible for me. But I don’t see any reason to bother with formal laicization.

I will work now in the secular world with that same sense of mission that was mine since I was a youth group teen and which I committed myself to on the day of my ordination.

In doing so, I’ll continue to live by the final command of the liturgy that we all celebrate: “Go in peace, glorifying the Lord by your life.”

(Warren Hall lives in Hoboken, N.J.)

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  • 1 Corinthians 3:2 – New International Version
    I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.”

    “That’s when the Vatican issued a document reaffirming a 2005 instruction that gay men should not be admitted to the priesthood. Apparently, Pope Francis approved of the policy.”
    Romans 1 – 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

    “I believe that today is comparable to many other times in the church’s history when the tenets of its teachings came face to face with developments in society, and things became “messy.””
    Hebrews 13:8King James Version (KJV)
    8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” He said what you do is wrong.

    “I can’t, simply because I could not in good conscience take the Oath of Fidelity that all priests take upon ordination and when assuming a pastorate”.
    Christians are not to fornicate.

    “I’m not talking about the matters of faith but matters of discipline. I’m sure pretty much all Catholics pick and choose what teachings to follow, and in a sense that’s what I’ll be doing when it comes to the church’s views on gay men and women.”
    So, if some RC choose to walk away from Christ and His teaching, does not make His teaching wrong:

    Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
    10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

    “I think the average Catholic wants the church to get back to the basics: feeding the hungry; clothing the naked; proclaiming the message of love, forgiveness and inclusion that Jesus taught his followers.”

    The Great Commission

    16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

    Christ does offer forgiveness, and He will forgive you on repentance. Don’t give your life to satan.

  • This is one of the saddest articles that I have seen on this site! This man is crying more for prayer and help than acceptance of his sin.

  • Before you get yourself worked into a lather and writing a dissertation, maybe do a little research. He has stated how he identifies — as gay. He has not said he had a relationship. So even by the twisted definitions of his own Church, he has not committed a ‘sin.’ So maybe you should apologize to him for what you wrote? Those running the Vatican want freedom to express their own asexual nature, but refuse to accommodate others.

  • Thank you Violet, but if he is telling others that he is a homosexual and “I can’t, simply because I could not in good conscience take the Oath of Fidelity” how would he know that to be true, if celibate? The authority is not the church – it is the Bible – for all of us. (edited)

  • Because the 2005 Vatican policy states that men with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies” should not be admitted to the priesthood, celibate or not.

  • On declaring an affinity for homosexuality, above the Word of God, I would say that Romans 1:28 – 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. ” is applicable. And he demonstrates such by some of his comments. So he is not equipped to teach in the church. (edited)
    I’m pleased to see that he knows he needs help. I get that from the article.

  • This article hurt me while reading it. I would ask Fr Hall to risk for the faith stay and be faithful to your calling. In saying that I understand
    I am asking a lot.

    Joe Murray
    Executive Director
    Rainbow Sash Movement

  • Joe, how can you help him to go to Heaven? This man if he hasn’t already, is turning from Christ.

  • I took that to mean that he would not take the Oath because he does not agree with the hierarchy position on his meeting with LGBT Catholics, and he does not agree with the “intrinsically disordered” language in the Catechism. He does not believe he should keep silent and they want him to keep silent. It does not mean he thinks he is a sinner. As far as I know, this case does not involve transgressions against any of your biblical references, not that I care what people do in their own bedrooms. The issue is meetings and him publicly speaking out to identify himself as gay and the Vatican policy.

  • What do you think “those of us who observe our vows of chastity” means? (5th paragraph from end of article)

  • So, he only intends not to follow Jesus then and wants to teach about it? I’ll repeat this for emphasis: Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
    10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” You want that teaching your grandchildren about what he thinks is Jesus?
    Romans 1:28

  • I can’t, simply because I could not in good conscience take the Oath of Fidelity that all priests take upon ordination and when assuming a pastorate, namely, that I “accept and hold everything that is proposed by the hierarchy” and that I “adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings.”

    Hmmm…I thought that all converts to the Catholic Church–and not just priests upon ordination–had to vow that they would “accept and hold everything that is proposed by the hierarchy” and “adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings”?

  • And to cry to the world how he is rejecting the One who loves Him the most. That is so sad, it’s almost pathetic. He should not be teaching until he gets at peace with God.

  • All hierarchical religions require obedience and suspension of intellect for dogma. This sets them on the path of deep denial of reality. Fr. Hall should try a non-hierarchical church and thrive.

  • The fundies think it is a choice and by stating his choice he has already sinned in his heart and has turned away from god. Therefore he is going to burn forever in the fires of hell – a just penalty from a loving god.

  • ” No such thing as “gay Christian.””

    As a gay man myself, I wish that were true . . . because it would show that gay people are exceptionally rational.

  • Sanctimonius Sandi, I think you need to go back to Christian basics and read where Jesus warns us about adopting a “holier than thou” attitude and to stop judging others.

  • I’d like to thank Rev. Hall for his devoted service as a priest at Seton Hall chapel. He was a good priest and he is missed. It’s very sad that he wound up persecuted for being honest and telling the truth about who he is and attempting to help others who share his innate sexual orientation. Having a homosexual orientation is no more a choice than being left-handed is a choice. The idea that Gay Catholics should feel “disordered” or “evil” is as hurtful and wrong as the Church referring to Jews as “perfidious”. The Church has since changed this language regarding Jews. I have no doubt that change is coming regarding our gay brothers and sisters in the church. Father Hall’s is a prophetic voice and a welcome one. I only wish more of us, including many of his brother priests, had this kind of courage and honesty in accepting the truth about themselves.

  • Honey, Christ judged his behaviour long ago. Our job is to help him get right with Christ – if He ever was.
    James 5:20 – New International Version
    remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

  • Homosexuality is a choice, Kieran, and a sin.
    Christ’s Word doesn’t change.

    James 1:13 New International Version
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

  • It’s too bad the RCC is denying itself wonderful clergy and lay people in its efforts to discriminate.

    It’s ironically funny that they think LBTG folks have a “hidden agenda.” There’s nothing “hidden” about it. It’s a quest for equal rights. The RCC is rife with hidden agendas- domination of women, power, suppression of the laity, greed, and on and on.

    Those good and decent people in the pews deserve much better.

  • From which book of the Bible would you like to know?
    Genesis? Leviticus?Deuteronomy? Ephesians? Matthew? Revelaton?

  • Matthew 15:19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander.20 These are what defile you.

  • Thanks for vividly demonstrating that you don’t have the slightest clue about what it means to be rational.

  • Matthew 7 New International Version (NIV)

    Jesus Christ on Judging Others:

    7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

    3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

  • very true, if one is nitpicking. Otherwise, we judge righteously – according to what Christ taught, like “homosexuality is a sin, and all sin leads to death.”
    Why do you want that man to go to Hell?

  • You reject Christ and His love here, He will grant your decision in the afterlife. That is why it is important to repent before you die.

  • If you don’t like the church’s teachings, leave and go elsewhere. Don’t cry, wail, and howl because your specific sin isn’t tolerated. He knew that from the beginning.

  • Jesus never used the word ‘homosexuality’. He did use the word πορνεα, but nobody knows what it means except biblical translators who translate that Greek word by the most horrific sexual sin THEY can think of.

  • It seems he’s taken your advice; that’s the whole point of the article. BTW: A homosexual orientation is not a sin. Go read Catholic dogma.

  • It seems this topic gets more coverage than any other on this site, and there is little or no movement from the protagonists. Perhaps RNS would do well to give it a rest for a time, allowing us all to take thought before the next engagement. If Rev. Hall were prepared to continue in his celibacy as a priest I would make no comment other than saying that surely he must realize the public positions that he has taken are in direct conflict with both the bible and his Church. Perhaps the choice he has made seems best to him, but had he elected obedience he could have continued to declare the message of the Cross, which is that Jesus Christ died to save sinners; the basis from which the Gospel springs.

  • You are referring to nitpicking. Christ said to judge with righteous judgment. (John 7:24) – meaning what Christ said – like homosexuality is a sin and sin leads to death. Which isn’t exactly judging, unless you want to accuse Christ of that.

  • In the end, the “church” isn’t going to help one when one is standing before the Lord – who gave us the truth in His word

  • No such thing as “orientation” It was a phrase used to try to justify sin. The are using the same term for pedophiles now too.

  • Good and faithful servant of the one and Holy Triune God, I would love to have you as a colleague in the ELCA. We are also trying to get back to basics, and expand our understanding and care of all God has created and gifted. We’re far from perfect, but we’re trying.

  • And it is also true for pedophiles. But then, truth is something you rea.ly don’t care about, is it? You just want to continue to bash gay people under the passive aggression of “loving them.”

    So what is it about homosexuality that so obsesses you? you? your husband?

  • We meet Christ when we die. The church will not be there beside one to justify, or defend one’s wrongs. It will be just you and Christ there explaining why you chose not to follow the love He gave you in the Bible. We all have access to a Bible even if it is just online.

  • Sandi:
    The Biblical texts often used against homosexuality are the following:

    -O.T. Genesis: 19, 1-11; Leviticus: 18, 22 & 20, 13; Judges, 19, 16-24; 1 Kings, 14-24; 15, 12; 23,7; 2 Kings, 23, 7 (In most Roman Catholic Bibles, 1 and 2 Samuel are called 1 & 2 Kings, and the two Hebrew and Protestant books of Kings
    are called 3 & 4 Kings.)
    -N.T. Romans, 1, 18-32; 1 Corinthians, 6, 9-11; 1 Timothy, 1, 8-10; Jude, 7.

  • If I’m reading my Thayer’s Greek dictionary right, the word in question can even mean metaphorically, worship of idols, but I’ll guess Thayer thinks that in Mt 15:19, it has something to do with sex.

  • Well, why then did this priest get punished for “orientation”? If, as you claim, there’s no such thing, then he got punished by the church for nothing. It doesn’t seem right to get punished for nothing, does it?

  • So righteousness is a measure of popularity? I don’t think so. It’s a measure of principled thought and empathy.

  • yes it is.Matthew 15:19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander.20 These are what defile you.
    (edited)

  • don’t tell me you are afraid of the truth? You want to hurt homosexuals worse also? (or is it to sway members of the church away from Jesus word? (edited)

  • But, He did use the term “immorality” of which homosexuality is a component, Why do you want people to go to Hell?

  • Revelation 21:8 ESV

    But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

  • I can’t say I’ve made a study of that Greek word, Sandi, but just off-hand, I will guess that there is either zero or very little about homosexuality in the Paulist writings that were intended for ‘Gentiles,’ as generally they had no/few qualms about same-sex acts, and would have been incredulous if anyone had tried to convince them it was a ‘sin.’ I think what Paul is selling is monotheism with a Pagan flavor (dying and rising young Lord), not 21st century Puritanism. You have to always consider the context of the writing. If Paul had been opposed to homosexual acts or to homosexuals, then given his personality, he would have written at length about it. He didn’t, at least not in the few letters we have.

  • To answer your question, Sandi, Fr. Hall seems eminently qualified to be a teacher or parish leader, for the teens, for the elderly, for anyone. He seems to be the type of person who does treat everyone with respect (even those who have marginalized him). He is calm and peaceable, a good writer and well-organized in his thinking. I’m glad he seems to have at least two job possibilities on this page. It will certainly be a loss for the New Jersey archdiocese if he goes elsewhere.

  • Baptized Christians enter the Catholic Church not through Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist but through Reception, Confirmation and Eucharist.
    As part of the Rite of Reception the candidate says “I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.”

  • no he isn’t. He has been turned over to a reprobate mind by the Lord to do that which is not good – Romans 1:28. He should not be around children. (edited)

  • That was Christ speaking.

    Paul was taught through revelation by Christ. You have a problem with the truth of Paul – take it up with Christ

  • logic is good. It is Biblical. Are you saying that you have difficulty with scripture after all this time? Homosexuality is a sin.

  • Do you think that personal attacks on a specific gay individual in a public forum are protected speech under the 1st amendment (freedom of religion and freedom of press), or something else like libel or harassment? I notice that the RNS comments rules state, “Also not permitted are ethnic slurs, religious intolerance, homophobia, and personal attacks.”

  • Actually, one in six, or perhaps 7, of MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN have HIV.

    There is a reason why they make the distinction.

    Meanwhile, of course, worldwide, AIDS is primarily a heterosexual problem. And among African Americans, it is not gay men that are infecting all of those women.

  • 2 Timothy 3:16-17English Standard Version (ESV)

    16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
    Are you displaying “religious intolerance?”

  • Always a pleasure to see the contempt with which the True Believers hold others. It’s like you, ISIS, and Frankie Graham all went to the same madrassa.

  • If you choose to not believe some sections of the Bible, how do you know which are correct? Or, do you just cherry-pick?2 Timothy 3:16-17 English Standard Version (ESV)
    16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

  • No, I am not intolerant of religion and I am actually a fairly good student of it. However, I do not tolerate people using religion as an excuse to harm others. Anyone may discuss the pros and cons of an argument on this page and cite supporting scriptures, without slandering the author of the article by specifically mentioning him. This is what is known as Christian charity and common courtesy.

  • He identified himself as a Christian and, is being spoken to as one. He has not been slandered. What is your next excuse for not submitting the truth?

  • Fr Hall seeks nothing more than justice for LGBT people in the Church through a dialogue about homophobia which the Teaching of the Churche calls us to engage in.

  • Sandi: The church teaches that being homosexual is not a sin. You clearly do not accept that. Therefore, you are not accepting of the teachings of the church and should not be attempting to teach others about this matter. After reading through this lengthy thread, and knowing that we can’t really know each other from this page (although you have no such compunctions) I think I have a scripture that applies to you: If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of
    prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all
    faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

  • It is written in His word. Homosexuality is a sin. He will forgive and cleanse one of the sin, if they feel they are worthy enough to repent.

  • Thank you for your comment, but homosexuality is indeed a sin. Christ taught against it.
    Upon repentance, Christ will forgive and heal one of the sin though

  • Your comments reflect a scholarly approach and you quote scripture that you are certain reflect Christ’s view of homosexuality although none specifically name that way of life as sinful. Respectfully, I get the impression that it is you speaking “with authority” about people who are different than you and whom you seem to abhor. My feeling about homosexuality come from a gut reaction that tells me that the Jesus presented in scripture would never condemn those who were “different.” My gut also tells me that those who are attracted to those of the opposite sex were born that way and cannot change what nature produced. This priest was open about his attraction to those of the same sex but he remained chaste. I find that no different from the heterosexual priest who is attracted to women and yet chooses to remain celibate. The sacrifice is the sacrifice. Period. And if you are a parent or grandparent, be careful because someone in your own family may “come out” and you will need to know then how to accept and embrace that child or grandchild.

  • Actually, I don’t dislike homosexuals. I think they should be protected from the “inclusive” gang because I would rather meet them saved, in Heaven and these supposedly “loving” people just further entrench them in their sin. I have a strong objection to people lying that the sin is “normal” and acceptable, as Christ taught against it. God’s will is that none should perish, and I try to show homosexuals that they need not die in their sin. God knows all about them, so repent of one’s sin and be saved – just like any other Christian did.
    Citing scripture is only condemnation to those who are afraid of it. The Bible shows God’s love for us. His word is a love letter to us and about Him. He abhors homosexuality, like any sin, and upon repentance, will forgive us of our sins.
    “To this day, my God, I hate sin not because it damns me, but because it has done Thee wrong. To have grieved my God, is the worst grief to me.” Charles Spurgeon (edited)

  • So you don’t understand what the Church Teaches. There is condemnation of homosexuality , it also teaches that discrimination against homosexuality is unacceptable

  • If the church doesn’t teach that homosexuality is a sin, and all unrepentant sin leads to Hell, then I am not interested in what they say. It is not discriminating to anyone to tell them the truth. Justice for the homosexuals is to get them saved – the same as for anyone else. If they are participating in unconfessed sin. they will die and only those working against them want that – the so called “inclusive” groups, who want them to revel in their sin, not go to Heaven, eventually. I want to see homosexuals helped. What about you? (edited)

  • So you want to do what Fr Hall does pick and choose.

    The Churches Teaching is not that complicated. Yes as I mentioned there condemnation, but if that is all you see the Teaching to be, in my opinion you are missing the point. What of God’s love and
    Grace do you presume to limit that so you can be comfortable.

  • That’s a good question, and one you should be asking of the hyper Christians, the moralizing busybodies, the judgmental hypocrites, and the rest who infest the Church.

  • “Actually, I don’t dislike homosexuals.”

    LOL. Yawn. Jeeeeeesuuussssssssss!

    Oh, back to LOL. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! And Trumpee just loves his women.

    You pretend to love us, but actually despise us. So you can add lying to your usual list of sins.

  • What’s this? A Hyper Christian calling out another hyper Christian for being a nasty hyperchristian?
    Louellavbelle! Fethc me my smellin’ salts and my faintin’ couch. Mama’s goin’ down!

  • And yet these hyper Christians are our neighbors is not anger and fear a form of judgementalism? Common ground is a far country, but if you believe in Jesus it is possible.

  • But, the support we give them does matter, for they, and for us.
    Galatians 1:.8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
    10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant[b] of Christ.” Christ taught that homosexuality is a sin.

  • Christ is our Gospel “Love
    God , and your neighbor as yourself” any deviation from that mission statement is scandelious.

    Do you accept a LBGTQ person as your neighbor? You may wrap yourself in biblical quotes but if those quotes are done with a mean spirit they are not of God.

  • We seem to be coming from separate theological perspectives. I again ask you are you Roman Catholic?

  • You never do get the message that no one in heaven died and left you in charge of making those decisions for God. Your fanaticism knows no bounds when you attack a celibate gay priest as “bound for Hell,” just be he’s open about being gay. Thanks for shredding your own tattered scrap of credibility with even more vile assertions than usual. Careful, your total fanaticism is showing.

  • Actually, you are fixated on LGBT in a very unhealthy manner and the price of your “love” for them comes at too high a price to their human dignity. Your fanaticism puts your own humanity in question.

  • Nope. He’s very much in touch as one of the most sensible contributors that I read. It’s you that are totally out of touch with reality and real life. Your religious fanaticism blinds you to so very much of real life.

  • Right idea, wrong direction for proof. The burden of proving that your version of God exists is on the religious fanatic who treats ancient bigotry as the “real gospel of Christ.” Since I believe in a living God, and in the fact that we play catch up to God as we learn and accept new truths about humanity, such as LGBT love and civil rights, I feel just fine with the apparent conflicts between the prejudices of people dead for a couple thousand years and where we now are in social understanding. God made LGBT the way they are, and LGBT are a gift to us from God, just as they are, not as poor imitations of being straight.

    According to the folks in the Bible, we should be ruled by kings or religious judges, not by personal choice and democracy. Women should be happy to be traded like cattle, according to the Bible, but we see things much differently. So, now that the rest of the world is catching up to LGBT rights, you folks carve out that one social advancement as a bridge too far while accepting for yourselves all the social advances from Biblical times that personally benefit you. That’s what qualifies you and your ilk as hypocrites.

  • Hebrews 13:8 English Standard Version (ESV)
    8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” His word does not change according to our desires to sin more.

  • You are wrong to accept to yourself the social advances of civilizations since biblical times, when women had few civil and social rights, and then try to claim that LGBT must live as if we were all living back then, when you could have been sold or traded like cattle and would have had no human rights yourself. That’s what makes you, and people like you, total hypocrites.

  • Your presence here on this site promoting your religious views as a woman says otherwise, all by itself. You are your own best evidence that you are wrong in your prejudices against LGBT.

  • As I said before…Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If you read the NT, women had all sorts of rights – more in the new than in the old, as through Paul, came their ability to divorce. So, i tend to think that you haven’t put much thought, just emotion, into your comments. If the Lord wanted women to be men, He would have made them such. Their role is not unimportant, just different.

  • howso? I think you should read the Great Commission, Riding. That should answer your concerns. blessings

  • That’s nonsense. But your efforts to show some advances in New Testament times just illustrates how Christians were the social liberals of their day, not the social conservative you want them to be. Just 500 years ago, you would have been burned at the stake by the Catholic Church as a witch for daring to have your own personal copy of the Bible, much less quote from it all the time. So, religious values do and have evolved with advances in human rights. Now, LGBT are finally getting the human rights they deserve and you, all too happy to enjoy your own human rights, want to deny them basic human right in the name of your religious fanaticism.

  • The Great Commission was given to the disciples ordained and otherwise set apart by Christ to teach in his name. You error in taking that commission upon yourself just because you read about it in the Bible. Your fanatical lack of compassion and humanity suggest that Christ himself would never have appointed you to represent him.

    I understand and respect the belief by most Protestant Christians that since salvation is an individual matter, the Great Commission comes to each Christian by accepting Christ. But you turn around and deny the Christianity of others who came to Christ on their own as you claim to have done. That is the best evidence against your claim on the Great Commission applying to you individually; you seek to deny it to others, especially to LGBT-affirming Christians, with whom you disagree.

  • I have been set apart by Chris. I belong to him. I am a slave of Christ. Are you?
    His promises and instructions are written to believers, so I assure that His word is known so others can know the feedom that He offers. Why do you want to keep them in bondage to sin?
    I don’t deny the Christianity of those who refuse Christ’s commandments…

    John 8:47New International Version (NIV)

    47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

    1 John 2: 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,”

    1 John 1:6 – If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.

    1 John 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

    Christ does.

  • The notion of claiming to be the “slave of Christ” is just plain creepy. If the truth is supposed to set you free, how would a Christian ever claim to be made a slave by Christ? Yuck. That’s just nasty.

  • God’s word is nonsense to you?
    The RCC wasn’t Christian 500 years ago. They hated Christians, so you are probably right in that respect.
    At best, sounds like you need to stop listening to the RCC, and listen to Christ – read a Bible. If you want to become a Christian, let me know. Christians believe Christ.

  • “The RCC wasn’t Christian 500 years ago.” Once again, you use your modern hallelujah hypocrite Sunday School mentality to highlight your own ignorance of things. 500 years ago, the “RCC,” as you put it, were THE Christians. Protestants were heretics getting burned at the stake. It took establishment of secular human rights in some European nations for that to change as Protestants were allowed to live and believe as they saw fit. The Catholics were just trying to keep their faith “pure” in exactly the same way you appear to want to now. You have become them back then.

  • Thanks for your “blessing.” Does that mean you are going to go “preach” at someone else?

  • lol…smiles broadly. what an honour to be counted with those who save countless people from heresy and apostasy. Thank you.
    While I don’t agree with everything Luther taught – what an honour you give me. Blessings, Give.

  • Once again, you give yourself honors that you have not earned. To me, you are the heretic, not any savior from heresy. Progressive Christianity is real Christianity. The early Christians were the social liberals of their day and your fanaticism and ultra-conservatism do not qualify.

  • You show that you really have not by posing that question to me. Setting yourself up to judge others in place of Jesus is to deny the Christ by making yourself into a god in his place.

  • lol….lol…..God bless you!
    Matthew 5:10“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    11“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

    Thank you for the blessings!

  • How can you challenge another’s belief when you are afraid to identify who are in Christianity’s family of religions.

    Once again I ask are you a Roman Catholic or not? Your failure to address this question shows how hallow you are.

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