Former Alabama Chief Justice and U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore greets supporter Patricia Jones, right, before his election party Sept. 26, 2017, in Montgomery, Ala. AP Photo/Brynn Anderson

White evangelicals in Alabama

Ground zero for spiritual politics this fall is Alabama, where Roy Moore, paladin of the religious right, is seeking Jeff Sessions' old seat in the U.S. Senate. You figure that Moore, the Republican in the race, would walk into office pretty comfortably.

So it comes as something of a surprise that the latest poll, from Fox News, shows him tied with Democrat Doug Jones, a former U.S. Attorney who successfully prosecuted two Ku Klux Klan members for their roles in the notorious 1963 16th Street Baptist Church bombing.

But Moore, whose defiance of federal court orders led to his being twice forced out of office as the state's chief justice, is pretty far out even for Alabama. If you look carefully, you can see that even white evangelicals have their doubts about the guy who planted a Ten Commandments monument in the state judicial building and ordered probate judges not to hand out marriage licenses.

To be sure, Moore wins the support of white evangelicals by a wide margin, 68 percent to 17 percent. But of those that support him, 41 percent do so "with reservations." Less than half (49 percent) support him "strongly."

Altogether, 40 percent of Moore's white evangelical supporters cite "party loyalty" as the main reason they're behind him. Just 22 percent say it's "Christian beliefs/values."

When asked how they feel about Moore's views, only 54 percent of white evangelicals say they are "just what we need in our senator," while 24 percent view them as "out of step with where Alabama is today."

Of course, it will take the state's non-white evangelicals to push Jones over the top on December 12. And the smart money says that when the time comes, Moore's support among the most likely voters -- older ones, especially -- will prevail.

But between the lukewarmness of Moore supporters and the intensity of his opposition -- 32 percent of Jones supporters cite opposition to Moore as the main reason for their support -- the smart money may turn out to be on the wrong horse.

Comments

  1. Arrgghhhhh! Not those WHITE EVANGELICALS again! Arrrggghhhhh! lol

  2. “Party loyalty” is what is destroying America. Vote for the better person, not a party. I understand that sometimes, SOMETIMES, it is one and the same, but strictly voting party puts idiots into power rather than the best.

  3. A perfect political analysis. Agree or disagree, “the smart money may be on the wrong horse,” is a great line.

  4. Moore’s long record of perfidy makes him radioactive among all but the fringe. Of course, in Alabama, the fringe is 60% of the whites.

  5. Moore is usually mistaken about scripture and about the law. He certainly has no inkling of living in the compassion of God. There is no good reason for any follower of Jesus to follow his lead.

  6. I’ve been observing evangelicals for many years, listening to their ravings, reading their nonsense, asking them (politiely!) to explain their views.

    Six of the most important things I’ve learned about them are that (1) they have a strong need to feel that “someone is in control”, (2) they have high aversion to ambiguity–they need things to be black or white, (3) they have a strong feeling that people are laughing at them and disrespecting them, and (4) there’s a a lot of resentment among them, (5) typically, they’re very fearful, and (6) unlike real Christians, these folks have a very strong need to be very vociferous in proclaiming what good Christians they are.

    Add these things up, and they mean that most evangelicals are lying, hate-filled hypocrites who are poorly informed and not good at reasoning. .

    Moore illustrates all these things–in spades. It’s no wonder that in Vietnam, he lined his bunk with sandbags, out of fear of being fragged.

  7. Yes there is. He’s a republican and an authoritarian who has promised to “get the gays”. It’s really all that is required.

  8. Thank you. Everything YOU say is very true.

    I suppose part of this is cultural–somehow, it seems concentrated in the bible belt (hmm….)

    It’s certainly true that they’re opposed to logic and rationality–not only are they themselves not very good at thinking, but they understand how dangerous thinking is to their beliefs–ALL of them, not just religious.

  9. On the positive side, lots of polls show that now, most people support the idea of gay marriage and are opposed to prejudice/persecution.

    Not in the South, of course…..

  10. “To be sure, Moore wins the support of white evangelicals by a wide margin, 68 percent to 17 percent. But of those that support him, 41 percent do so ‘with reservations.’ Less than half (49 percent) support him ‘strongly.'” Unfortunately, when people cast votes there is no provision for them to vote with reservations or not, or strongly or not. They simply vote.

  11. Most people do. But I suspect a lot of them would change their minds if someone went out of their way to rile them up.

  12. Certainly possible.

    Another aspect of Moore (et al): he rants about Muslims, saying stuff like the First Amendment does not apply to them, etc. Given that he’s an evangelical “Christian”, who will be next on his list? Evangelicals don’t believe that Catholics are “real” Christians, so maybe Catholics are next. After them, of course, will be Jews, Methodists, Lutherans…..Unitarians for sure (did you know that John Adams was a Unitarian?)…

  13. “…..typically they are very fearful…..”
    Could you give us a few examples of what you recognize as “fear”? Thanks.

  14. Do you also have “blind faith” in believing that there is NO Creator?

  15. “……long record of perfidy…..”
    Could you cite a few examples?

  16. Funny…………………the left says “race is just a social construct”. But when it comes to “Christians” they don’t like…….race matters because they are white.

  17. Glad you asked. Many: fear of the homosexual “agenda” (i.e. in this and all following examples, fear of consequences).. Fear of gay marriage. Fear of exposing people to sexual information. Fear of removing clearly sectarian symbols from public land. Fear of “taking god out of the classroom”. And so on.

    Turn on AM radio if you’d like to hear more, or find some of their web sites.

  18. I have very little “blind faith” in anything. I always like to see empirical evidence to support any claim I hear–and I also like to be able to see that any claim I hear is falsifiable. A claim that’s not falsifiable is not worth considering.

  19. How about his ignoring several rulings by higher courts?

  20. If someone walked into your house naked, and assuming you have children, would you allow the guy to just sit around your house naked?
    I wouldn’t call that fear. I would call it ‘protecting your principles’. I don’t think Christians have any problem with homosexuals, as long as it isn’t in their faces. Like gay pride parades, as an example. At least for me personally.
    Is a society to have standards anymore? Even homosexuals should be outraged at those parades. PUT SOME CLOTHES ON! And stop groping each other in public.

    I don’t fear gay marriage either. Let them have it…..I could care less. Means nothing biblically. Christians need to drop their campaign against it. It isn’t a biblical marriage so who cares. No paper marriage is a biblical marriage. I say get marriage out of the courts and back into the personal lives of two who wish to be ‘one flesh’.
    Fear of exposing people to sexual information is not “fear”. It is just inappropriate. I went to sex education in middle school. The school should not have anything to do with it. That is a parent’s responsibility. Parents don’t fear it. They just don’t want others teaching it. Not fear. Just protecting their principles.
    FEAR just seems to be the wrong word. Seems Orwellian to me. “Peace is War” as an example.

  21. If you believe that there is no life after this one……………….you are believing in faith. Blind Faith.

  22. Umm….I think it was 3 federal; orders–2 about removing the 10 commd’ts monument he’d placed, a third about gay marriage (Obergefell vs ???)

  23. Sorry, those “fears ” voiced by evangelicals were simply irrational–just like all of evangelicalism. I should have mentioned as well a classical evangelical fear I’ve heard numerous times–“lack of control”, “like being in a car with no steering wheel”, as they’ve often said.

    Among their other charming characteristics, Evangelicals love to condemn behavior they don’t understand or are intuitively afraid of.

    One of the the implicit fears re sex ed is that the people who will be exposed to it, are so impulsive that they will want to immediately go out and try stuff. Of course, that notion of impulsiveness characterizes evangelical behavior very well.

  24. No, it is YOU who are believing based on blind faith.

    Show me the EVIDENCE. And as well show me how ANY opf your beliefs can be falsified. A belief that caNnot be falsified is a very foolish belief.

  25. What a crock! You have an elaborate post-death mythology – one of thousands – without a shred of evidence and against common sense and logic. That is blind faith. To think that at death all of the chemical and electrical activity that defines us ceases is in line with current medical knowledge and is a very reasonable and high probability outcome. I don’t remember anything before I was born and it seems reasonable that I shall return to that state.

  26. I suppose you did not have any problems when the law was changed or overturned having to do with interracial marriage or school segregation. But NOW…………………don’t be changing laws.

  27. And you think this is evidence?

    You have no idea at all what “falsification” is, do you?

  28. You are absolutely correct–I had no problem with the idea that those laws were unconstitutional and thus should be overturned. Now, let’s see, where were most of those law? And who were the most enthusiastic supporters? Why, they were in Southern states (e.g. Loving v. Virginia) and the most sealous supporters were bible-waving evangelicals! Hmm……

    In any case, whether you like a SCOTUS ruling or not, all citizens are obligated to OBEY those rulings.

  29. Roy, since you believe that verse is true, do you believe everything in the bible is true?

    If we can meet somewhere, I’ll give you some poison and watch you drink it.

    And before you drink it you can tell me how much you hate your parents and wife and kids:

    Mark 16:17

    And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
    they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

    Luke 14:26

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple.

  30. Perhaps you could explain to me how that verse relates to your OBLIGATION, as a Christian, to drink poison to prove your sincerity, or to hate your parents. I mean, you’re not gonna be selective about verses, are you, if you believe the whole bible is true?

  31. As you noted on a page regarding Facebook and anti-Semitism, regarding Henry Ford, he was an anti-Semite. Indisputably. I amplified that in a comment to Mr. Hobs.

    Mr. Hobs is simply not good at dealing with fact and clear thinking, and I predict he will not be posting his nonsense here very much longer.

  32. “He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” Matthew 17:20
    Surely you do not believe that Jesus was LITERAL here?!!!
    Surely you are not that ignorant of Scriptural Exegesis. Unbelievable.

  33. Sorry, but I do not see how this addresses the passages about poison and snakes and hating your parents. They sure look like Jesus was being literal there. And in the passage you cite above.

    As you must know, there are in fact (self-described) “Christians” who take those passages literally–lots of ’em in W. Virginia, as I recall.

    (Of course, this discussion raises a much larger question: how do you decide what passages to take literally, and what to take figuratively? Sure looks to me like a true believer would take these passages re poison & hate literally.

    (Or maybe you just don’t have real faith….)

  34. But we are told repeatedly by True Christians that the bible is the literal, inerrant, without-a-doubt word of God. Quoting YOU directly, you have stated that Jesus said “Truly I tell you…” Not metaphorically I tell you, but TRULY I TELL YOU.

    Yet, here you say “no, that’s not true.” Which is it? You cannot have it both ways.

    Exegesis, like hermeneutics, is simply a way to get your holy book to say exactly what you need it to so that you can claim it is literally true and yet not total claptrap at the same time.

  35. Moore was twice removed from his State Supreme Court Chief Justice position for violating the U.S. Constitution. That alone would disqualify him to rational voters. He has a history of discriminatory rulings, and he paid himself handsomely from his nonprofit grifting organization. Moreover, his image as a moral scold should be looked at in askance considering his son’s multiple criminal record. He is slick as Vaseline and more crooked than the tailpipe of a Cadillac.

  36. “Civil Rights,” “Desegregation,” “MultiCULTuralism and DIEversity,” are all enforced by a tyrannical Zionist Occupied Government, and are all designed to miscegenate people of White European racial ancestry out of existence. School desegregation was enforced literally at bayonet point, see image. http://s719.photobucket.com/user/ThisDayInHistory14/media/ForcedIntegrationatBayonetPoint001.jpg.html

    “Jack Greenberg, the Jewish Lawyer Who Used Law as a Weapon To Desegregate America’s Schools”
    http://forward.com/culture/looking-back/351856/jack-greenberg-the-lawyer-who-used-law-as-a-weapon-to-desegregate-americas/

    Why aren’t there any Jewish organizations working to desegregate schools in Israel, so that Arabs can attend classes with Jewish schoolchildren? (((They))) only want to force desegregation and assimilation with non-whites, and non-christians, on White Christians.

  37. Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

  38. Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

  39. Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

  40. Anti-Christian atheist homosexuals, and transgenders, insist on having gay and lesbian mardi gras where they “celebrate their sexuality,” by prancing around in public, virtually naked, wearing g-strings. Leftist atheists insist on teaching schoolchildren about LGBTQ lifestyles, drag culture, etc.
    i.e. the blatant, predatory, brainwashing of children. e.g.

    Here’s An Amazing Way To Explain Drag Culture To Kids. http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/queer-kid-stuff-drag_us_594d8816e4b05c37bb768284

    How to know if your child is transgender: What experts say. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/wondering-if-your-child-is-transgender-here-are-some-tips/2017/08/07/1d655ef8-7b49-11e7-b2b1-aeba62854dfa_story.html?utm_term=.0848c85fd5b0

    P.S. Please explain. http://thegrandadmiral.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/faggots-at-pride-parade.jpg

    Godless leftists have no bounds in their drive to promote and normalize all sorts of degeneracy, and sick criminality, the leftwing “Green” party in Germany even tried to legalize pedophilia! https://newrepublic.com/article/120379/german-green-party-pedophilia-scandal

  41. I don’t speak for “Christians” in most matters. Yes…it is a mistake for a Christian to say that the Scriptures should be taken literally. As far as ‘inerrant’……..I believe the Biblical writers original word is inerrant. The problem is in the translation. Lastly………….why do you care?!!! (Rhetorical)

  42. Oh, I’m very serious. But I understand that it is impossible for a person with your beliefs to provide a solid response to the questions I and others ask, because we are asking questions and making points about logic, and you are providing answers that arise solely from emotion.

    For example, I asked a simple question: how do you decide which verses to accept as literal, and which as figurative or metaphorical. The DE FACTO answer is simple: if you like a verse, think it’s do-able, it’s literal; if you think, for example, you cannot do it, it’s metaphorical.

    Of course, a good deal of your views arise with the idea that there is a god, a soul, afterlife, etc. I and others here understand that there is absolutely no empirical basis whatsoever for those beliefs–which means they probably arose for some peculiar, non-obvious reason, e.g. manipulating people.

  43. Can any one human ‘move a mountain’?

    It is common sense Howard.

    there is absolutely no empirical basis whatsoever for those beliefs
    Please provide me the empirical evidence to support that there is NO life after death, and or that there is no god. Thanks.
    Are you humble enough to admit yourself that you also believe in Faith?

  44. Every time you post, you reveal a lot about your lack of education and familiarity with important ideas–in this case, your unfamiliarity with the idea of the foolishness of attempting to prove a negative.

    Prove you are not secretly homosexual.. Get the point?

  45. unreal. I have nothing further to discuss with you. If you are interested in what I believe, I would welcome a private email discussion. [email protected]

  46. I care because of the uses this book is put to by people who believe it represents god’s word, literally and intactly,that their understanding of it is perfect, based upon a perfect translation, and because it is god’s word, they can use that belief to trespass on the lives of other people who don’t share their beliefs, and claim that it is all about god and not about their own purposes and fears and motivations hiding behind religious belief.

  47. Clearly, you do NOT get the point.

    Thank you for the invitation. I often engage with people whose views and thinking differ from mine–a good way of learning.

    In this case, however, I’ll decline. I’ve been engaging with evangelicals, fundamentalists, inerrantists, etc for many years, and by now I’m reasonably confident that I know how they think. Two important things I’ve learned from them are that (1) they are unaware of several important principles of clear, effective thinking (e.g. Occam’s razor, and several of the ideas I’ve mentioned in our discussion), and (2) they are uninterested in learning these ideas (or perhaps, afraid of them–I cannot say for sure that that’s the case, but that’s a possibility).

    Clearly, for example, you are unaware of these ideas, or uninterested in pursuing them. Equally clearly, you do not understand at all the point I made, asking whether you were a closeted gay person.

    Thus, I’ll skip this opportunity.

  48. Well… tho there’s no evidence that god exists, and plenty of material explaining how this idea comes about, what about the Verudians? They occupy the planet Veruda, which is hidden from telescopes, radar, , etc., out beyond Neptune.

    The Verudians harvest human life to keep them alive. Occasionally they experience plagues, and when they do, they need to raise the harvest; they do so by causing wars on other planets, such as the US.

  49. Mr. Hobs is simply not good at dealing with fact and clear thinking
    You are a real piece of work Howard Kay!
    Henry Ford just made up everything in his work, “The International Jew”.
    Wow….just wow. You wouldn’t know a FACT if it slapped you in the face.

  50. *sigh* Aaah, Roy, Roy…what are we going to do with you? As usual, you missed the point entirely.

  51. And the folks in the south love authoritaarians…not to mention gay haters.

    And this may has the gall to call himself a Christian! Where are the (of course, self-proclaimed) “Christians” who demand that Muslims condemn Muslim extremists?

  52. As usual, your statement reveals nothing at all about anything in the real world, but an enormous amount about you.

  53. Of course I did. Only YOU Howard Kay are all knowing…..infallible….just a super stud. Your husband must be proud.

  54. Hey Howard God Kay…..need some advice………..

    I’ve got a buddy who came home from a bar a few months ago and he said the bouncer kicked him out for no good reason. He said he was just minding his own business and next thing you know, the bouncer just decided to kick him out and gave him no reason why.
    But then the same thing happened the following week. My buddy went to a different bar and the same thing happened. He said he was just minding his own business and was kicked out of the bar.
    .
    Well………….this is still going on. Every time he goes to a bar he gets kicked out.
    .
    Should I just take him at his word? That he is truly innocent just minding his own business….
    Or perhaps his story is just not accurate? Maybe he is doing things to cause people to kick him out of the bar?

    Who should I believe? Thanks Howard. Hope you can help me.

  55. Unfortunately, I’m fairly certain I cannot help you. You are clearly unwilling to entertain any ideas that contradict your beliefs; you are clearly unwilling to admit there are important matters (re clear thinking) of which you are quite unaware; you are unwilling to engage in direct, on-point discussions, and most revealing of all, unwilling to address direct questions or challenges.

    (Over decades of discussions with self-proclaimed Christians, I’ve found these characteristics to be very common, indeed, to virtually characterize such folks.)

    All of these things are evident to anyone reading your posts.

  56. Where do you think I said anything indicating that I regard myself as infallible? (ONly self-declared Xians believe they are infallible.) Where do you think I portrayed myself as in any way super, or superior to you?

    I *am* superior to you in at least one way I can see: my curiosity. You appear to have none.

    Oh, and I think you forgot to call me an elitist.

  57. Unbelievable. You don’t have one shred of introspection.

  58. “…You are clearly unwilling to entertain any ideas that contradict your beliefs…” = Hypocrisy.

  59. True. I used to be an evangelical christian. One of the most important principles or beliefs that Evangelical preachers & theologians try to brainwash you with is this: That all human logic & reasoning is “of the flesh” and therefore infected by Original Sin. As a result, you can’t trust human logic/reasoning. No such thing as common sense. You also can’t trust your feelings either. It’s all tainted by original sin and the devil will try to decease you, etc. Therefore the only thing you can trust is the Word of God (i.e. the Bible). In other words, you can only trust your religious leaders since they’re the biblical experts, etc.

    A religious CULT thru and thru.

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