News

Adventist pastor comes out as bisexual, resigns her church

Former pastor Alicia Johnston. Photo courtesy of Stephen Eyer

(RNS) A Seventh-day Adventist pastor has resigned from her Arizona pulpit and announced via video that she is bisexual.

“Through study and prayer, I’ve come to a point of complete disagreement with the Adventist Church on their teachings about LGBT people,” Alicia Johnston said in a video posted on Facebook on April 22. “I also myself am bisexual so I’ve come to an awareness of that and have realized I just can’t live my life with integrity anymore without being honest about that.”

The Arizona Conference Corporation of Seventh-day Adventists issued a statement calling Johnston a “gifted theologian and pastor” and noting its determination to abide by the stances of the church.

“While the Seventh-day Adventist Church deeply believes it’s our responsibility to minister to all people, we also have a mandate to adhere to all Bible teachings,” the conference said. “Fundamental Belief #23 states: ‘Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship.’”

Johnston, 36, is unusual not only in her decision to reveal her bisexuality but also in her recent roles as a licensed woman minister and the sole pastor of her church.

Seventh-day Adventists voted in 2015 to not allow their regional bodies to ordain women pastors, continuing a long-term practice. Women pastors have often held their positions without being formally ordained in the church, which observes its Sabbath on Saturday.

According to a bio on the website of Foothills Community Church in Chandler, Ariz., Johnston became its pastor on Jan. 1, 2016.

“She has a passion for gospel-centered preaching and making the depths of scripture accessible and practical to all,” her bio reads.

In a statement, Johnston said she hopes her revelation will prompt changes in church attitudes about LGBT people.

“Too often the church thinks about this as a matter of importance to LGBT people and not to the church at large,” she said. “But those outside the church are aware that culture cares much more about queer people than the church does.”

About the author

Adelle M. Banks

Adelle M. Banks, production editor and a national reporter, joined RNS in 1995. An award-winning journalist, she previously was the religion reporter at the Orlando Sentinel and a reporter at The Providence Journal and newspapers in the upstate New York communities of Syracuse and Binghamton.

180 Comments

Click here to post a comment

  • This is the kind of person I can respect. You disagree with your church on an important issue like this, you tender your resignation. Best wishes to her. I hope she finds Christ as her sufficiency.

    I Thess. 5:22 abstain from every form of evil.

  • “She has a passion for gospel-centered preaching and making the depths of scripture accessible and practical to all,” her bio reads.” If she had a passion for the gospel, she would not consider herself bi-sexual. As Harry said above/below/somewhere, at least she had the integrity to resign.

  • “Through study and prayer, I’ve come to a point of complete disagreement with the Adventist Church on their teachings about LGBT people”

    Where do you think the Church got these teachings from?
    You disagree with the Bible.

  • Matthew 10:38

    “And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
    He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.”

    Luke 9:62
    “And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

  • She also disagrees with the largest measure of Christian theologians for the past 2000 years.

  • This not only part of the great falling away from the faith, it is choosing to willfully sin against God by practicing a lifestyle choice that is considered unnatural affection and an abomination to our Creator. it is forbidden in His instructions. There is now no longer any other sacrifice which can save this woman.

    Once we have been “enlightened” there is no longer any other sacrifice that can save a person who willfully chooses to sin against God and His Word of Instructions.

    1 Corinthians 5:9-13
    When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. [10] But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. [11] I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. [12] It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways. [13] God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”

    Hebrews 10:26-28
    “Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received a full knowledge of the truth, there is no other sacrifice that will cover these sins. There will be nothing to look forward to but the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. [28] Anyone who refused to obey the Law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.”

    Hebrews 6:4-6
    “For it is impossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened – those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the power of the age to come – and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame.”

    Hebrews 12:14
    “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”

    Revelation 21:8
    “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

  • Willful sinning against God once we have been enlightened.

    1 Corinthians 5:9-13 – When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. [10] But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. [11] I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. [12] It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways. [13] God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”

    Hebrews 10:26-28 “Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received a full knowledge of the truth, there is no other sacrifice that will cover these sins. There will be nothing to look forward to but the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. [28] Anyone who refused to obey the Law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.”

    Hebrews 6:4-6 “For it is impossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened – those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the power of the age to come – and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame.”

    Hebrews 12:14 “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”

    Revelation 21:8 “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

    It appears this woman has decided to willfully with intent sin against God who gave her His instructions. She has chosen to ignore them. Therefore; she is also a liar who is not at all passionate about the truth of the Gospel, the Word of her Creator. She made this statement: “She has a passion for gospel-centered preaching and making the depths of scripture accessible and practical to all,” her bio reads.

  • what is my interpretation?
    cause I didn’t disclose that…you myst have an extraordinary 6th sense…tell me

  • As an AZ SDA I am glad she resigned her post. I am glad she felt the Holy Spirit and listened enough to leave her leadership role. In times like these it is hard to judge and I don’t judge her. However judging her or loving her as a person and allowing her to teach the word are not the same. It is expected that spiritual leaders at least beleive and follow what they preach.

    How can we preach the word and not follow it? I’m glad the church still holds strong to the word but I am afraid that it may fall into the trap of trying to gain favor with the world and its sympathies sooner rather than later. It will be a hard thing to watch. But we, as SDAs, should know it has been predicted and have been warned.

  • In times like these it is not fair to judge and I don’t judge her….
    Was Paul wrong to have judged the adulterer in the fellowship at Corinth? 1 Cor 5.

  • And that’s why women are not allowed to be Pastors in the Adventist Churches. All those who oppose the Conference and the Scripture are in Apostasy to God’s Word.

  • No he was not wrong. However I have no idea if this lady has committed bisexual acts so I don’t intend to judge.

    What I ment is this: Is it fair to judge a persons homosexual internal struggles when our environment and food is filled with inescapable hormone distruptors that alter our bodies chemical compositions at the cellular level? Is it fair to judge when generations of human epigenetics have rendered our offspring at a terrible disadvantage in matters such as these? I will leave the judging of such people with similar homosexual struggles to God.

  • That wasn’t “the Holy Spirit” moving you to resign from a leadership position in an anti-LGBT hate group, Alicia. It was something much more powerful: good sense.

    But it does no good to quit a specific hate group if you keep believing in the religion that inspired it.

  • I don’t think you are looking at this in the right light. Did you read the Scriptures in my post? There is not room for questioning God’s Word. It is all there in black and white. Who are we to question it?

    Sexual sin is the worst sin we can commit when we know and have accept the LORD’S forgiveness. If we posses His Ruach in us; it will not stay where SIN abounds. it will lead, guide and direct us into all truth, Our bodies are the TEMPLE of God….This is grieving the Ruach. He will leave. She is trampling on the precious blood of Yeshua and holding him up once more to public shame. She is depending upon God’s grace to allow her to live her life the way she wants. NO! NO! NO!

    If we love our lives or anything a father, mother, sister, brother, son or daughter more than God, we are not worthy of being His servants. Matthew 10:34-39. Yeshua says he did not come to bring PEACE but the SWORD. We are to rightfully divide the Word.

    Usually homosexuals quote only the New Testament. They do not wish to hear your verse from the Old. I have had many say to me, homosexuality and lesbianism is not addressed in the New Testament. I give you proof below that it most certainly is addressed in the New Testament.

    She was a lifelong Adventist who had parents who taught her and raised her in the Church. Proverbs 22:6 fits…Train a child in the way he [should] go; and, even when old, he will not swerve from it.

    Now the question is, why did she swerve from it? Temptation or a test from God the Father to see where she is in her walk with Him? We do not know. All we can do is go according to the Word. That is not judging her. It is loving her with the TRUTH of His Word. This could go on all day long dolling out Scriptures that fit these circumstances. This is a major problem and why Judgment will begin first with the House of God.

    She admits she knew the Word, she loved the Word. She should have the Word written upon her heart and draw from it. She knows better Charles. That is willfully sinning against God and His Word. And teaching others to do so as well by her example.

    Here is a Scripture that is specific to women. However, for context we should read around this verse.

    Romans 1:26 – This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural;

    Romans 1:25-30 – They have exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, by worshipping and serving created things, rather than the Creator – praised be he for ever. Amen.[26] This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural;[27] and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.[28] In other words, since they have not considered God worth knowing, God has given them up to worthless ways of thinking; so that they do improper things.[29] They are filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and vice; stuffed with jealousy, murder, quarreling, dishonesty and ill-will; they are gossips,[30] slanderers, haters of God; they are insolent, arrogant and boastful; they plan evil schemes; they disobey their parents;

    This is blatant sin. She knows better. She is not set apart. She is not doing the Will of the Father. She is exercising her own ‘free will’ that is disobedience and willful sin. Sorry. I am not going to be quiet any longer. I refuse to ‘tickle’ itching ears with what they want to hear.

    I am not her Judge. However Yeshua is under the watchful eye of his Father Yahweh. And Yahweh says this in Acts 17:30-31 “In the past, God overlooked such ignorance; but now he is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins.[31] For he has set a Day when he will judge the inhabited world, and do it justly, by means of a man whom he has designated. And he has given public proof of it by resurrecting this man from the dead.”

    Here are the words of Isaiah…
    Isaiah 5:20-21 – Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who change darkness into light and light into darkness, who change bitter into sweet and sweet into bitter![21] Woe to those seeing themselves as wise, esteeming themselves as clever.

    God have mercy on her soul. God can show mercy to whomever He chooses. However, we must not play God. We must love her the way He tells us too or she will die in her sins and shame.

    Shalom

  • God is raising up a remnant that is willing to stand for His TRUTH. Who are willing to “obey” Him and put His Word into practice.

    This is exactly why Judgment will begin FIRST with the House of God. Who is the true House of God? Israel. He is calling back the “lost sheep.” The problem is, EVERYONE thinks they are okay and part of Israel or part of the Church or have fallen for ‘replacement theology.’ Everyone thinks they’re under “GOD’S GRACE” but grace is reserved for those who are following God’s Word. Not saying they are following God’s Word but actually DOING God’s Word.

    Romans 2:13
    For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God’s sight.

    We have to do what God sent Yeshua to teach us to do. And live it out as Holy and peculiar people set apart to GOD. Not providing God with “lip service” while their hearts are far from God. Isaiah 29:13 – Then Adonai said: “Because these people approach me with empty words, and the honor they bestow on me is mere lip-service; while in fact they have distanced their hearts from me, and their ‘fear of me’ is just a mitzvah of human origin

    Mark 7:6 – Yeshua answered them, “Yesha`yahu was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites — as it is written, `These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away from me.

    In Ezekiel 34 we have God telling us He will deal with the shepherd who are not properly feeding nor caring for His sheep.

    Romans 1:26 – This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural;

    1 Corinthians 5:9-13
    Hebrews 6:4-6, 10:26-28, and 12:14
    Revelation 21:8

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMae1v1x0SU

    “THE ORIGINAL SIN DOCTRINE”
    By John Lawson

    This is a very short 4 minute animated video explaining Sin simply. Right at the beginning of this video it proves if we are not born into sin and God cannot create sin, then He did not create all those who practice the abomination sin of Homosexuality.

    God did not create them to be homosexuals as they claim. They most certainly can control the lust of their flesh. It is part of crucifying our flesh and walking in the Spirit of God. He changes and transforms us. He puts in us a new heart and gives us a new spirit. One that will obey Him and disobey Him.

    It is a choice they made to give into the temptation of sin. Adam and Eve sinned first by disobeying God. But because they did; does not mean we have too.

    We are born of the ‘flesh’ and the ‘flesh’ will always be hostile towards God. It cannot submit to God or to His authority. That is why we must repent and turn back to God asking Him to please forgive us of all our sins we have committed up until the time. Then make the decision to become born again as John 3:3,5 & 7 tells us.

  • And so she disagrees with Jesus too. Not surprising. Many do:
    II Tim. 3:1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self… 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power;

  • It would be unethical to provide a reference for someone I don’t know. MCC primarily serves LGBTQ Christians who grew up in those esoteric traditions like Pentecostalism, Adventism, Glossolalia, etc. I’m sure if she wishes to consider further endeavors in ministry she’s already been advised of how she is the type of pastor they’re looking for.

  • Jesus said zero about homosexuality. Moreover he hung with people who the religious authorities considered unworthy.

  • Just like the US Constitution but that doesn’t stop you prog libs from finding it there.
    Oh btw Jesus said in Matt: 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    I’d think you’d find it tiring to be wrong so often.

  • Not an argument. Not on topic. “The Commandments” do not refer to ancient Jewish customs.

  • You don’t have to be a rocket scientist or a biblical scholar to comprehend the words of Jesus ““Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish…”

    Luke 16:17 (A)But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

    You have to be a real concrete thinker to not be able to connect the dots.

    And the Law said in Lev. 18…..well you know. Soooooo….

  • Mentally sick subjects know more than their god…they’ll justify it by saying god works in mysterious ways. It was their time to get cancerous tumour or die. god needed more new sheep and cows in heaven. Holy shit is reign . hell — luuuyyah….a men .

  • The godless homosexual catoliks created bible but never read it , jesus was a rebel , leader of new movement of 12 lovers , they were against women , were jobless & homeless beggars .

  • Yeah, we don’t pay much attention to Leviticus. Deutoronomy’s better, lots of stuff about helping the poor there. It’s valuable as hisoritrical esoterica and not much else. It’s just a club to beat on those you don’t like.

  • Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
    Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

  • Inferential reasoning. Scientists do it and you can too in your own home and without adult supervision.

    So now you know that Jesus as a traditional Jewish rabbi supported the Law and the prophets.
    The Law and the prophets taught that homosexual behavior was wrong.
    Therefore, Jesus believed that homosexual behavior was wrong.

  • How about you stop assuming that we have struggles which you know about, Much less need to comment on. I know you mean well, but it’s the same language and same obliviousness.

  • Or god told her that she was just fine, and you simply find it impossible to believe.

    Something about logs and specks and whited sepulchers comes to mind….

    But apparently not to you.

  • Hi Ben in Oakland, than you aren’t listening and you don’t know God. Those are His Words not mine.

    Unfortunately this type of story will always bring out the mockers and scoffers who hate God and love Sin.

    I will be praying for you as GOD LOVES YOU even though you may not love him

    Shalom which means PEACE.
    You can’t know Peace when you don’t know GOD.

  • She is wrong. Period. And to be a Preacher and do what she did shows the Great Falling Away from the Faith is indeed happening. The end is near.

    I examine myself every single day and sometimes multiple times a day. How about you Ben?

  • You didn’t answer the question, did you.

    Yes or no : gay men get the death penalty. Should be a simple answer to a simple question.

  • And actually anyone who goes along with Homosexuality saying it is okay will be found guilty of murder and hate.
    Do you know why Ben in Oakland?

    Because God tells us to LOVE Him and LOVE others. We LOVE Him by keeping His Commandments. We LOVE others by sharing Him and His truth with them showing them that the Commandments bring the knowledge of sin to mankind. They were given to show us our need to God and His forgiveness and Salvation He provided for anyone who will repent and turn back to Him and accept His Son who died for us by shedding his blood to cover our sins.

    You are looking a “GIFT” of God in the face and spitting on it.

  • I never implied that I knew anything about homosexual struggles from first person. I only know what I can observe and what I’ve learned from human biology.

    Essentially I am stating that “I don’t consider myself knowledgeable enough to judge” people’s internal homosexual struggles. This doesn’t mean I can’t make observations. Take that as you will. And let me clarify that even If I believe there is a chemical component to the issue, I also firmly believe that we are more than our genetics.

  • Gay men will receive in their bodies the penalty due them. That is the Word of the Creator.

    Gay men have sinned against their own bodies.
    Gay men deserve to die because they committed sin and the wages of sin is death. That is Scripture.

  • Again, you are the one typing, not me.

    I neither hate god nor love sin. That’s just the story you tell yourself to explain why people wouldn’t by the product you’re selling.

    Don’t pray for me, please. Pray for yourself, sinner girl. You’re the one worried about hell, not me.

    I can’t know peace because there are far to many of the god botherers calling down their vengeance on people like me. Except that I do know peace. But I sure would like to have more time to enjoy it.

  • So you STILLwont answer the question. Because even you know it’s just immoral, and contradicts what little decency you may have.

  • We all deserve to die. We all will die.

    Will you be the one that does the killing? Or would you prefer the state to do it for you.

  • So Ben you are a gay man?
    Did you create this world?
    No. God did. So He gets to tell YOU what you should do and not do.
    Do you know why He gave us His instructions? Out of love for us. To keep us health, safe from harm, from sickness and disease, To help us know right from wrong. And to prosper us not to hurt or harm us. YOU do that to yourself by denying Him and ignoring His instructions.

    You can’t have it both ways.
    You owe God for giving you life.
    He gave you a chance to become His child and be given everlasting life. This life is fleeting and temporal. What He offers is eternal.
    He wants you to be part of what He intended BEFORE His paradise was defiled by sin.

  • Ben God did not create you to be gay.
    God does not create sin.
    All God Created was made GOOD.
    YOU were GOOD when GOD CREATED YOU.
    You allowed sin to corrupt you, is all.
    We all did. We all fall short of the glory of God.
    He tells us this in His Word.
    We are all sinners because we live in fleshly bodies in an evil and wicked world full of darkness and sin.

    No one is “weaselling” out of anything. Lizzete Sweet Julian is trying to tell you there are reasons you are gay and have succumbed to sin.

  • And you STILL wont answer the questions. C’mon. Should be simple.

    Death penalty for homosexual acts? Yes or no?

    Will you do the killing, or do you want the state to do it for you. YEs or no?

  • My favorite part of Deuteronomy is where it says to kill all the unbelievers in your town. A couple of months ago, the holy-holies were falling all over themselves trying to deny what it so clearly says.

    Whenever the Bible says something inconvenient, it clearly must mean something else entirely.

  • Ben, there are some people who would kill others and that includes homosexuals. Anyone who does that is unstable and have a mental problem. No person who is right minded would kill another. Only those who are mentally confused.

    I would be lying, which would be breaking a Commandment if I said, I wish there was no such thing as homosexuality or the LGBTQ Community.

    Those things defile more than just themselves. Homosexuality and the LGBTQ affects families, faith, and our entire Nation. It is helping to destroy this once great Nation. Not homosexuality and the LGBTQ alone but it is very instrumental is the ultimate destruction of this Nation and why GOD ALMIGHTY has removed His hand of blessing from it.

  • We must not play god! but here you are, claiming to know the relationship of god with any other soul on the planet.

  • And yet you STILL will not answer a very simple question.

    As for what you have to say about my sexuality.. well, I’m sure you just consider it love. And that is the most disgusting part of your theology.

    have a nice Sunday, dear. I’m going to go out for a nice walk on a beautiful day and plot how I can destroy the nation– my home, the home of my loved ones and family– by not doing what you think I ought to do.

    You people are sick.

  • I have answered you Ben.

    Sexual sin is wrong. All sexual sin. Not just homosexuality.

    I do not consider homosexual relationships “love” they are based on “lust of the flesh”

    I don’t worship on SUNDAY.
    I keep the Sabbath that God our Creator tells us to. Mine Sabbath was from Sunday Friday to sundown Saturday. MINE is over.

  • So, will you do the killing? Or do you want the state to do it for you?

    Why can’t you answer a very simple question?

  • Ignorance masquerading as holiness. Not lovely.

    But I accept that you will not answer the question. You would have to admit just what a horrible person you are.

  • See you wonder why people react to those in the LGBTQ like they do. You are hostile and confrontational.
    You are demanding.
    I owe you nothing Ben, except to love you.
    I have done that with the TRUTH of GOD’s Word.

    I shake the dust from my feet as Yeshua did when His message was not received. Good day.

  • Why can’t you just answer yes or no? You people sure don’t like to state anything directly.

    So, last time! Yes or no? Gay men should be executed

  • OF course? and it’s righteous judgement. You simply know no gay people, except perhaps the self hating cowards that infest the church. But you are happy to tell people that have been together 50 years that their whole lives together are simply lust.

  • So you are fine with the execution of gay men. Got it.

    But leto move over to Deuteronomy. It says to kill al the unbelievers in your town. And you should be the one to do it.

    Yes are no? are you willing to step up and do the lord’s work?

  • Ben in Oakland said these lovely things

    Ignorance masquerading as holiness. Not lovely.

    Because I keep the 7th Day Sabbath our Creator told us to Remember to keep it holy, is not a suggestion. It is a Commandment. It is also a “sign” between our Creator and those who are His children. And it is a “sign” FOREVER. Holiness maters. Without Holiness no one will see the LORD or His Kingdom.

    His 7th day Sabbath is the only day He blessed and sanctified. It means He “set apart” that day and those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth will worship Him as He Commands.
    It is the Roman Catholic Church that changed God’s Sabbath to Sunday, the 1st day of the week. That is just one reason the RCC is accursed. They have added and taken away from the PURE Word of our Creator.

    Ben also said

    But I accept that you will not answer the question. You would have to admit just what a horrible person you are.

    Thank you for your judgment of me. Thank goodness you are not my Judge.

    PRAYING for you that GOD will show you the error of your ways. That He will give you the eyes to see His Truth and the ears to hear what His Spirit is saying. And a heart to receive all He has for you. And deliver you out of the bondage of lust of the flesh and the abomination sin of homosexuality.

    Blessings and Shalom

  • Ben, that is classic a homosexual who does not believe in GOD, SIN, or punishment must less holiness or righteousness saying you have the right to to judge me with your “righteous judgment!”

    How would you know if I know any gay people or not? Do you know me?
    As a matter of fact I do know gay people. And i have a 41 year old son who just entered into what the LGBTQ calls, “gay marriage” which is false. GOD defines marriage. “Marriage” is between ONE MAN & ONE WOMAN! Period! It is not a marriage anymore than fornicators living together are “married” in the eyes of God. It doesn’t work that way.

    Get off your whining soap box. I don’t are how long you THINK you have been MARRIED. It is not MARRIAGE.

    except perhaps the self hating cowards that infest the church. But you are happy to tell people that have been together 50 years that their whole lives together are simply lust.

    More judgment on your part. Why not try falling on your knees and repenting of your sins before God while you still have breath in you to do so. Death often comes unexpectedly. Then it is too late. Remember the days of Noah and the flood? God flooded the whole earth because of sexual sin, violence, iniquity and chaos. He was sorry He made the earth and all those in it. He wiped everything and everyone out except for EIGHT 8….. 8…..only 8 people who were found righteous. The rest were wiped away because they did not believe God and the Truth of His Word. They were mockers and scoffers like YOU Ben. Deal with it. This IS YOUR CROSS TO BEAR Confess your sins and get your husband or whatever to confess his. IF you TWO TRUTH LOVE ONE ANOTHER then let each other go. Stop doing and living as you are. TURN to God for forgiveness of your sins. That is what REPENT means… to turn away from. Like it or not GOD tells you that YOU know what is right to do. He gave you that ability. YOU did what you did, but you can still RIGHT your wrongs.

    God says it is lust of the flesh. The Flesh will always be hostile towards GOD which is why you need to be “born again” John 3, 5 and 7. Romans 10:9 Get Baptized and live a righteous holy life. YOU have the power to let your lover go and he you…. that would be showing the ultimate sacrifice just as Jesus (Yeshua) showed when he willingly laid down his own life to save YOURS, your lovers and all of us who will accept that GREAT LOVE… LOVE is laying down ones life for another.

    You can both do this. Maybe God has a purpose and a plan for the two of you to serve Him in this way…and save your own kind by leading them to repentance and salvation. PRAY and ask GOD. He will not rebuke you for asking. HE loves you and He loves your partner. He loves everyone which is why He made a way for all of us to receive Salvation. They very name of YESHUA not JESUS…. means SALVATION.

    Be blessed with eternal life, turn to God.

  • Why are you so hung up on gays being executed?
    No. I do not believe in gays being executed. Not for being gay anyway.
    There is a death penalty that includes execution if you did a crime and the judge deems it fit for the crime you committed.

    I think you are confusing “Christianity” (which I am not part of any longer) with “Islam” who does execute gays. In their Country, being gay is not tolerated and they execute them.

    Here is the really bad news… if the Muslim religion is successful in conquering the world or even a Country, They will use their means to execute gays.

    In America, the problem we face is that our past President Barack Obama who the LBGTQ thinks he was for; IS A MUSLIM and he is not FOR GAYS but AGAINST THEM And Hillary is right along with him. They are “Globalists” …who want Population control. This is why Hillary was for Planned Parenthood. Abortions were targeted towards black woman to stop the population of black people because they had the largest numbers of single parents out of wedlock births.

    Barack Obama was PRIMED to LEAD the NEW WORLD ORDER. It is why he, Hillary Clinton and all the liberals and even some corrupted republicans who have turned to also being GLOBALIST AND ELITISTS are so angry they DID NOT WIN the election. it is why they are doing everything they can to make Donald J Trump look bad. It is all smoke and mirrors. It is all a ruse. It is all part of a much bigger plan that few know about or will believe when told about the AGENDA of the ILLUMINATI.

    Now do you understand?

  • Again,you simply will not answer the question. Deuteronomy 13 is quite clear.

    My ignorance hasnt blinded me, but I would suggest self righteousness has blinded you.

  • So now the truth comes out. You are angry at your son. And so, all gay people must bear the brunt of that anger, but since you can’t take it out on your son, you’ll take it out on all of us.

    Your attitude will never make him sorry that he is gay. It will just make him sorry that you are his mother.

    And isn’t that just too sad?

    But curiously enough, you claim I don’t know you. But you are perfectly happy to state that my friends with relationships longer than all of Donald Trump’s marriages combined are just acting out of lust. Too funny. And too sad.

    But I do know you. I’ve been dealing with your kind a long time. I hope your son doesn’t let you poison his marriage. And I hope, for your sake, that you don’t so poison your relationship with him that you end up like mother: at 85, when she died, she was alone except for my sister. Not her other three children, not her grandchildren were there.

  • Thank. You cast that first stone quite clearly,

    You are against the death penalty, but hey, it’s really ok, as long as someone else does it and says it’s biblical. Funny.

    I’m not obsessed with it, it I do like to show the moral hypocrisy and cowardice that so informs so many Bible believing Christians.

  • Yes. I understand a right wing religious nut who thinks that Grabby McPussy is just the sort of moral person America needs.

    Christians used to execute gay people. Then they just settled for imprisonment. And now it just frustrates you no end that civilized society has moved beyond your barbarity.

  • Hey at least he is grabbing the right parts … you are not. What you do is against the LAW for even married couples. SODOMY. It is also unnatural. Anyone with half a brain knows what plumbing fits together as GOD intended. YOU reject, disobey, rebel and blaspheme God.
    Deal with it.

  • God gave you an EXAMPLE when He rained down fire and brimstone over Sodom and Gomorrah and turned it to ash. Then God gave you a WARNING that ANYONE living as those did in the days of S & G will be WORSE off they S & G where. Take it to heart pal.

    Your anger directed at people who have faith in God and actually follow His instructions are angry because of the sin in you. So you attack the LIGHT we shine because you HATE the LIGHT and all it stands for. It exposes the sin, darkness, wickedness and evil in you. So God has turned you over to a REPROBATE MIND. You cannot see nor understand because you have rebelled so long. Anyone who is with the same person for 50 years is OLD enough to come to the truth by now and OLD enough to repent and turn to God since you already have ONE FOOT in the grave. Maybe He will forgive you and save you out of your sins and rebellion. CHOICE is YOURS so stop blaming Charles, Lizette, myself and Christians. YOUR fate is YOUR OWN because of the choices YOU made. We have nothing to do with what GOD put in His book and what the penalties are for disobeying them. THAT FALLS ON YOU PAL.

  • It is to make excuses which God tells them in Acts 17:30-31 there is coming a time when He will no longer buy their excuses and accept their ignorance. He has set an appointed time for the Son to return and it is just about that time. This old man has been this way over 50 years. So he has to blame someone. God forbid it should be the LGBTQ or Obama and Hillary… who gave them the “rights” they demanded. So hold others who hold the Word of God dear responsible. He is the pot calling the kettle black.

  • You post utter nonsense.
    Capital punishment isn’t murder. Not in our secular world here and certainly not in God’s kingdom.
    Not one of the wicked ones will enter the kingdom of God.
    Plain and simple. His kingdom and His rules.

  • THE LGBTQ High Jacked God’s sign of His Covenant, His “bow” in the Sky to promise He would never flood the earth again. God takes His ‘Covenants’ very seriously. They will not go unpunished for destroying and defiling His “bow” which they need to repent of doing.

  • Which part of Deu 13 isn’t clear?
    Maybe your ignorance hasn’t blinded you, but what good does ignorance achieve?

  • Capital punishment is just the name you give to a murder which you have given yourself permission to condone. It is still the taking of a human life, which no one has the right to do.

    It’s funny that as an atheist, I hold that as an absolute, and you, as a religionist, are willing to allow it,

  • So now you are excusing sexual abuse and rape, not to mention, adultery and fornication. But you attack your son for being In a loving relationship.

    OK then. We’re getting clearer on your morals.

  • Still really angry at your son as well as me. Got it. Let me repeat:

    Your attitude will never make him sorry he’s gay. It will only make him sorry that you’re his mother.

    May you have all of the joy of that.

  • Sorry Ben, I missed out on that one. I’m all bored and sleepy this afternoon, and I need a quick pick-me-up. So please quote me “your favorite part of Deuteronomy” so I can get some exercise and wake up. Thanks in advance!

  • That is your right and you are entitled to live as a dhimmi.
    It might shock you, but in a war there are no fights with pompoms.

  • Careful buddy, you are walking in Judgment. I am walking and living according to the Word of God.

    I made no excuses anywhere on here for sexual abuse and rape. Nor do I make excuses for adultery or fornication. I do not attack my son. It is the other way around. Not that I owe the likes of you any explanation. I am sick and tired of having this abomination shoved in our faces through TV sitcoms, Commercials, gay pride parades. You wonder why the LGBTQ is so ostracized it is because of the exact behavior YOU are exhibiting. It is shameful. I am sorry but I hate what God hates. I am supposed to hate what He hates. There is nothing good about homosexuality. Even animals are smart enough to mate up with a member of the opposite sex FOR LIFE. That is a beautiful thing. Gay marriage is NOT a beautiful thing. It is disgusting. If you don’t want honesty then stop messaging me.

    I hate what is evil and wicked.
    I hate the act.
    I hate homosexuals pushing that abomination on our children and society as a whole.
    I hate what homosexuality has done to this once great Nation that was blessed because we were dedicated to GOD by our first President and we took things seriously.

    I hate the actions of the LGBTQ and its members.
    I hate having others rights violated because of the special rights they were given.
    I hate that business owners are being forced to do things that violates their rights as people of faith.

    I hate that you are playing the poor me card. You are using your filthy lifestyle as an excuse to attack people who actually love God and serve Him. Who choose to walk in His ways and deny themselves in order to do so.

    You are pathetic that you demand so much attention; even negative attention is apparently better than none. So where is that loving partner of yours? Why is he not meeting your need for time and attention?

    BLOCKING YOU and REPORTING YOU FOR TARGETED HARASSMENT.

    I have every right to believe as I do.
    I will NEVER tell my son it is okay to be gay because it is not. It is an abomination to Almighty GOD punishable by Death in hell and the lake of fire.

  • He is not in a loving relationship. He always wanted a best friend. He is in a LUST relationship.
    He was brilliant, handsome, talented, wealthy and he threw it all away on a money hungry Puerto Rican and his entire lazy none working family who found HIM to be their GOLD MINE.

  • Unfortunately, in the United States, most boy babies are circumcised while in neonatal care. This became a standard practice in the 1940s-1950s as at that time medical practices found it to be their preference due to the hygiene argument. Since then more parents have objected to it than when I was a child, but it is still widespread.

  • Okay, here it is, thanks for the reply.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A12-18&version=NIV

    Like I said, this is merely a pick-me-up brain-exercise. Not trying to talk you outta your messy skepticism on this one. Be right back.

    (Also, I’m currently listening to Pandora. I like Gospel Music and Space Rock, but only if the rockers don’t sing — just play the spacey keyboards and shut up. Leave the singing to the gospel songbirds.)

  • this assumes facts for which evidence is nonexistent. A “traditional rabbi” would not have been executed.

  • people like you have been given all sorts of “evidence” you just deny it all. Pity too because the end is coming and so is the return of the son of God. But if he should tarry it is for your sake giving you time to repent and turn back to God. Death often comes unexpectedly so it is not about the return of the Messiah but more about what will happen if you were to die, say, today or tonight, where will you spend eternity?

    You have chosen this life without any thought or regard for what lies ahead after Judgment Day. ALL people will either rise to new life or to eternal death and separation from God. Deal with it.

  • Okay, this one is easy, but thanks again for supplying it.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A12-18&version=NIV

    Am I being told by Deut 13:12-18 to whack all the unbelievers in my hometown? Nope, not at all. It’s a simple context gig.

    Deut. 4:44-45 says “This is the law Moses set before the Israelites. These are the stipulations, decrees and laws Moses gave them when they came out of Egypt.”

    I wasn’t there, I wasn’t part of the Old covenant. Jesus is my Savior and Ruler, so I live under his New covenant (Heb. 9:14-15). Neither Jesus nor any of the New Testament writers, give ANY military, judgment-executing commands to Christians such as Deut. 13:12-18 (executing God’s judgment via military force on an entire Israelite town, if there’s a totally investigated AND PROVEN report (v. 14) of the entire town led totally astray into idolatry).

    So the specific instructions of your Deut. 13 passage, are just for the specific people Moses addressed, the Israelite nation.

  • The Father created all that was good. He did not create sin.
    Sin is defined in the Bible as ….Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.. ( I John 3:4)

    But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, (I Timothy 1:8) but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for mans layers, (I Timothy 1:9) for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, ( I Timothy 1:10)

    Who is coming that is also the Lawless one? Who is the son of perdition? It is the Antichrist. Yeshua (Jesus) to Christians said there are already many Antichrists already here.

    Without the Law which is actually a poor translation for the Creators guidelines and instructions; we will have chaos. Clearly we can see this in the world today as we move further away from God’s Torah (instructions of how to live peaceful, healthy, happy, righteous, holy, blessed and abundant lives).

    Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

    My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. (Hosea 4:6)

    It is today, therefore God tells us to repent and turn back to Him. This is time to repent and this is the day of Salvation. If you will reach out to GOD, confess your sins to Him; ask His forgiveness and accept His son who died once for all who will accept Him. Then you begin living as a new creature in Messiah and the Ruach will help you stop sinning. You will not want to sin any longer if your conversion is real.

    God is raising up a remnant who are willing to walk in His ways and obey His instructions. Nice exchange for the filthy sinners we are who all deserve death and hell and the lake of fire.

  • Those penalties are for the covenant people of Yehoveh G-D of Israel in the land of Israel. American society has decided no death penalty for being homosexual in America.

  • It makes far more sense to leave a church/sect/faith that is beholden to treating one as less than a person than to stick around and try to change it from within. Religious groups which promulgate and promote prejudices don’t change their policies out of humanity or compassion. If they had any in the first place try wouldn’t be doing so in the first place. They change when forced to by circumstances. Given the vast and variety of beliefs and faiths out there, there is usually one to fit such needs, or none at all.

  • Awwww, that’s nice. Only some religionists want to kill us. That makes it so much better, and makes your god look positively… well I don’t know what the word is,

    However, I am reliably informed that the word of god never changes. I am also informed that there are numbers of American pastors who think The death penalty is a good idea. They join their Muslim counterparts in their holiness.

    They also insist that bacon sandwiches really aren’t abominations after all. OH, wait! ORthodox and Muslim religionists disagree as the god’s word on that subject!

    Ya know what? I don’t think I’ll be taking any humans word for it as to what their particular and peculiar god thinks. It just sounds like god doesn’t know everything his followers do.

  • Then why are Leviticus 18 & 20 so constantly cited? You might say that Paul referred to arsenokoiten, which he probably got from these verses, but how does that make them any less of the “old covenant”?

  • He was not a traditional rabbi, he was a NON-traditional rabbi. The traditional rabbis opposed him, such that traditional rabbinical thought can be said to have existed in the 1st century, .

  • Many traditional rabbis were executed at various points for the same reason Jesus was — fomenting rebellion against Rome.

  • Sodomy is not against the law for married couples, not secular law, not Torah law.

  • Context of romans: idolatry. Not important at all, because you want to condemn gay people.

    Context of Deuteronomy: extremely important, because you really don’t want to go around killing people even though it says clearly that you MUST do so.

    Or maybe you do?

  • Orthodox what? Muslims? American pastors?
    The G-D of Israel doesn’t send his covenant people (ambassadors) into the nation’s to enforce the terms of His covenant on non-covenant people.
    Muslims are not Yehoveh’s covenant people. Allah is not Yehoveh.

  • My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. (Hosea 4:6)

    Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

    Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.. ( I John 3:4)

    But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, (I Timothy 1:8) but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for mans layers, (I Timothy 1:9) for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, ( I Timothy 1:10)

    Prayers

    But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; ( I Peter 2:9)

    Just wondering why was my above post removed?

  • If all she had said was she was bisexual, and said nothing specific about disagreeing with her church’s position on the subject, would this be a problem for you? The article says nothing about any relationship she may be in.

  • Didn’t think you believed in the historicity of the OT. Can’t be trusted. The OT text is only clear when you want it to be. LOL

  • Excuse me, but only Israel and those who join themselves to Israel in trusting faithfulness to Yehoveh ONLY through Yeshua of Nazareth are Yehoveh’s covenant people.
    Israel/muslims, two different peoples, only one in covenant relationship (Israel).
    Yehoveh/allah, two different gods.I can understand your confusion. Muslims forcefully make the [baseless] claim to which you agree.
    Hebrew scriptures/koran, two different books, two different paths.
    5 deceptions of Islam by Avi Lipkin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oovzvs16HIo

  • You’ll have to take it up with the Muslims, because they say, and with exactly as much evidence, that YOUR claim is baseless.
    I’m an atheist, so I think you are all pretty silly. But still capable of inflicting a lot of damage anyway, praise the lord!

  • True, he was non-traditional in the sense he stood in opposition to the pharisees. Yet, he was traditional in other ways. Most importantly he was traditional in his belief that the OT was Gods word and he believed it, he taught it.
    Matt: 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

  • Just pointing out your inconsistencies. But if I thought sincerely “that guy” wanted to discuss the text dispassionately, I would be more than happy to engage “that guy.”

  • So “homosexuals” are now according to you a race?
    So we have adulters race? Fornicators race?
    What else?

    It is not A RACE CARD… not racial at all.
    Sorry you do not like my stance on Homosexuality but it stands and will stand forever because God never changes. There is no way God will ever say Homosexuality is not an abomination to Him, Nor will He ever says it is NOT unnatural affection in His sight, perverse, lewd behavior. So you may as well deal with it.

    This is not a RIGHT you will ever win. He does not go by the Supreme Court on this earth. Wait…you and all others will get to see HIS COURT ROOM on JUDGMENT DAY. And it is coming sooner than you all realize. However, if the Master shall tarry, it is for YOUR sake giving you all time to repent and turn away from your sins and accept His son for remission of sins.

    Please do not contact me regarding this subject matter. I have made my beliefs clear. I will no longer discuss this. I am done.

  • Hey,”Bride of Yeshua”(Deborah)—Have you ever heard of scrupolosity? You seem to be suffering from a major case of morbid,excessive self-examination.Relax!! 😊.If you are In Christ and He’s in you,trust Him…He’ll get you to your destination.—PEACE IN CHRIST, ALWAYS! 😁.

  • Here is a question for you, Ben in Oakland: Do you think that child rapists/murderers should be executed? For my part, if you run afoul of laws, state or federal, that mandate capital punishment for certain crimes, and there is NO DOUBT of your guilt,I myself have no problem with the government executing you.If a vicious child killer raped and murdered my granddaughter/son, let him/her die the death. Why should they live the rest of their lives coddled by the State at taxpayers expense? I await your reply…

  • I think you think I’m Ben in Oakland, this is the first time I’ve said anything to you on the matter. But in any event, I was talking about your Puerto Rican remark, not LGBT persons. [Neither are “races,” but the term “racism” today is usually extended to ethnic groups as well, which Puerto Rican would qualify under].

  • Actually, that IS what I was going to mention (that the Leviticus warnings link up with the powerful 1 Cor 6:9-11, via that specific term). You beat me to it.

    Lev, Deut, etc, are all Old Covenant. Forever. But they’re still Scripture, still God’s Word, still infallible. So any follower of Christ must line up with Christ’s attitude towards those texts — “unbreakable” and “the word of God.” (John 10:35).

    The big difference is in how we APPLY those Old Testament texts. We Christians don’t kill adulterers, but we agree with Lev that adultery is a sin, because the New Testament makes that part clear. However, we DO eat juicy PORK BBQ hot off the grill, because the NT makes clear that Christ fulfilled God’s laws on dietary things.

  • It’s a fair question. Mr. Ringo, and deserves a nuanced answer. But the short answer is no.

    Let me make a digression. When the conservatives argue against hate crime laws, especially if gay people are the victims, the usual reasoning is that it makes thoughts a crime, gives some victims more “rights” than others, treats some victims as more important than others, and does nothing to deter further crime. Is that how you feel? (A genuine question, BTW).

    So why should a child rapist or murderer be treated any differently than an adult rapist murderer? And do you really think that life imprisonment, especially since “life” for child molesters usually isn’t that long in prison, is “coddling” someone? you’ve been in jail. Were you coddled?

    It all depends on what you believe about the purpose of imprisonment. Is it rehabilitation? Is it punishment? Is it segregating dangerous people from the rest of society? I believe in all three, depending on the circumstances. Having been in law enforcement for five years a long, long time ago, I saw first hand that the criminal justice system was every bit as much about money as anything else, and that it was frequently far more criminal than it was just. We have seen that people have been exonerated even after “fair” trials where eye-witness testimony convicted them. It turned out the fix was in, the perp was black or poor or crazy. I kept a young man out of prison because he was crazy, where his “fair” judicial proceeding was going to send him. I tried to keep a violent dangerous offender in prison, and was told (in not so many words) that since he had inadvertently committed a public service by his murdering someone no better than he was, 6 months in jail was sufficient.

    I am against capital punishment on principle. finding excuses to make killing other people OK is precisely why we have excuses for killing other people. That being said, when Dylan Roof is executed, I’m pretty sure I’d love to care, but I’ll probably have to wash my hair. But if I could vote to abolish the death penalty, I would and have. When bin Laden was shot, I would have preferred it had he been brought back to the US, and buried in a dark hole to spend the next thirty years alone with nothing but his Quran to read, reruns of “My Favorite Martian” in hebrew on TV, and a tiny window with a view of the sunshine that he will never walk in again. But he was shot, and one less terrorist exists to harm innocent people in the name of god. I would no more feel his death was a loss or a diminishment of humanity than I would regret not having a bad case of Hemorrhoids.

    I hope that that answers your question.

  • Great answer, as always FL. I might add: God’s immutable moral nature has never changed. Sexual immorality is a violation of God’s moral nature and his law from OT -NT and throughout eternity.
    Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not…

  • Thanks,Ben…I’ll will certainly evaluate your answer and give it serious thought, but at this point in time we’ll have to agree to disagree. The thought of the terror, pain, and despair my precious granddaughter would experience as she was brutally raped and murdered…well, there it is. There is no reason ANYONE can give me as to why such a person shouldn’t die himself. And yes, I was in prison for 8 years,and rightly so; I was guilty of the crimes I committed.(Thankfully, no one was physically harmed by my foolish choices.) And yes,in a certain sense, I was coddled: I had an easy job that kept me supplied in snacks and whatnot, I could watch T.V.to my heart’s content,I could be idle,lazy,with no responsibilities. In short in some ways it was like a VERY extended vacation,LOL!!😄. Believe me,Ben,I don’t particularly wish the execution of a person per se, but I believe that there are some actions that a person can commit that death is called for; that’s just the way humanity is. So,again,I appreciate your thoughts on this issue.See? Some of us Theists can be reasonable! 😁. PEACE my friend.

  • See the post to which I first replied. There it is.

    You said: “You disagree with the Bible.” That means what you smugly interpret it to mean is in antithesis to what she said. Nice crawfishin’ there.

  • That’s not why Jesus was executed. The religious authorities – you know, the real “traditional rabbis” – were upset he challenged their authoriteh.

  • IOW you have no evidence.

    Here’s some advice: threatening people with hell doesn’t bring them into the fold – it just shows how desperate you are. A false god who would dare to send people to such an environment is by definition evil.

  • Haha, not making a reading recommendation – just citing the source which proves the falsity of your assertions. Besides, you’d love Rushdoony. He is an advocate of christofascism just like you are.

  • I don’t threaten people with hell.
    I give them Scripture. If it is in the Word of God then it is His Words not mine.

    You may find this hard to believe but I do it with no malice just out of love and concern for those who are lost, eternal souls. I owe no man anything except to love them. My Heavenly Father says He sees it as hating someone when we do not tell them the truth of His Word because they will perish for eternity. Now do I believe that anyone burns in hell forever? No. I believe once you die and face judgment you either rise to newness of life and walk in the perfect Kingdom of God which He intended from the beginning. Because as He says, what was will be again. So shall it be.

    To think of anyone suffering in this life and then at the end of it that is all there is bothers me. Yet it will happen for many. Why? Because they rejected the knowledge of the truth. And believed a lie.

    You have a choice. That is why you were given “free will” to choose. God knows who will be happy in eternity and who will not. Because they show Him now by “the way” they live their lives now.

    There is no point in me badgering you or anyone because I cannot save you. I can only point the way which I have done. I am merely a messenger bringing you and others “The Good News” of the Gospel. God does not want clones or robots. He wants unique individuals who will love Him as He loves them with all their heart, mind, soul and strength. Don’t believe it? Sobeit. That is fine and certainly your choice. It makes me sad. Very sad as a matter of fact. I pray for the lost and perishing and as I do, I weep for them. My own son and his partner being among those prayed for and wept over.

    Have a good evening. I hope all is well where you are. A lot of very bad weather across the USA.

    I wish you PEACE…

  • I wasn’t going to go there, considering how butthurt she was. But I noticed that reference.

    But my reading of her comment concerning her son was that she really objects to him marrying a Puerto Rican, and is upset as all get out that because they apparently treat him far better than she does, his money is going to them rather than to her.

    That is one of several completely valid interpretations that one could attach to her comments. There are so many levels of casual prejudice, avarice, and religious nuttery with this woman that I just decided for the sake of her mental health, I would just drop the subject. There just isn’t enough moral soap in the world to wash that stuff off of me. But thanks for noticing it.

  • Not sure what Christofscism is but I am not of any religion. Especially not Christianity any longer. I follow the example my Heavenly Father sent to be my rabbi which means ‘teacher.’ He taught the Torah and lived it as do I.

    I understand; no one wants to be told they have to do anything. Every one wants to be their own person charting their own path. I did that for many years until the Ruach of God got a hold of me and brought me to the lowest point in my life. When you are in that hell hole pit of death; you have nowhere to go and no one to call upon but HIM, And gracious and merciful as He is; HE IS THERE ALWAYS even until the end of the age which BTW is upon us.

    Shalom

  • We can certainly agree to disagree. You can tell from my comments that I’m not really rabidly against it, but if I have to come down on one side or the other, it is on the side of avoiding executions.

    And of course theists can be reasonable! I’ve never said anything different. Though We neither of us believe in god, we nevertheless had a Christian minister officiate at our wedding, because he is a friend and wanted so much to do it. Though I am not religious, I was at one time. Though I am an atheist, and think that all of the theological disputes are basically steam fighting with smoke and based on air, I really have no objection to religion per se. As I have often said on these very pages, if it makes your life better and you a better person, I’m all for it.

    My interests, apArt from a lifelong fascination with mythology, gods, and magic, are in what people do with their beliefs, how they treat other people, and how they act within the confines of their stated principles and beliefs. Thus, believing homosexuality is a sin is within your purview. (You being a generic you). I’ll disagree that that is what this is about, but I can live with it. Saying that my rights must be restricted Because of your beliefs and you’ll get a fight. Lying to support those beliefs and I will spare no words or energy to point out exactly how much of a lie it is. And I won’t be polite about it.

    Peace to you, brother.

  • Exactly, thank you. Pilate was reluctant for exactly that reason. He did it because the religious authorities (the traditional rabbis) incited the mob to demand Barrabas (the ne’er do well anti-Roman guy) be freed as the traditional Passover pardon, so they disposed of Jesus because the traditional rabbis wanted them to.

  • Far from the sympathetic Colonel Klink type portrayed in the Gospels, history records Pilate as a brutal Jew-hating tyrant. He was so brutal Rome eventually recalled him as governor. He was not the rabbis’ lackey. They may have reported Jesus to Pilate, but the execution was for fomenting rebellion against Rome.

  • I wasn’t particularly surprised, actually, and I suspect,thought I don’t know, that my interpretation of the facts is far more like correct.

    This is one thing I’ve learned, probably mostly true, but obviously not always. The more violent the reaction to someone being gay, the more it is railed against and demonized, the more likely is that there is another story. I am absolutely convinced that homosexual hating homosexuals infest conservative organized religion. Occasionally, as with Ted Haggard and Lonnie Latham and George Rekers– and a host of others– they get caught.

    A certain vociferously antigay christian radio host was asked point blank a few years ago if he had ever had a homosexual thought. His response wasn’t “no, of course not!” It was “don’t go there!”

    Makes you wonder!

  • You may be right; certainly that was the excuse given, but, ironically exactly what Barrabas was guilty of and Jesus was not. My understanding is that Roman troops regarded their service in Judea not unlike white cops in Ferguson, Missouri, and similar environs. They were an occupying army and were spooked at any sign of rebellion. A more accurate metaphor would be Wounded Knee, 1889, where Sioux were massacred because the U.S. Army was wary of a “new religious movement” called “The Ghost Dance,” that was started by a shaman called “The Prophet.” Of course Wounded Knee’s victims greatly outnumbered the two thieves and one itinerant street preacher this pogrom executed.

  • and threatened condemnation and torture to those who rejected him.
    Jesus was just another insecure
    bully

  • Hi LCB, Actually no I have not heard that word. before.

    I am relaxed. I do have that peace that passes all understanding. I just examine myself to see where I fall short of the glory of God. I ask Him to show me and to help me to be a better person. I ask Him to break my heart for what breaks His and He does.It is how I learn and grow.

    I want to make sure my account is clean when my time comes. I am deeply grieved when I do something I shouldn’t. That’s all… but thanks for your words.
    Peace to you…

  • Compassion and helpful concern is needed. But remember what Paul wrote about people “who changed the truth of God into a lie…. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly.” Romans 1:25-27.
    We must remember that we all have a tendency to sin in one way or another; and “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” But, if we confess even a multitude of sins, they will be forgiven. We still need to avoid willful sin, “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins.” I believe Jesus was talking about willful sin when He told a woman, “go, and sin no more.” 1 John 1:8-9; Mathew 18:21-22; Hebrews 10:26; John 8:11.

  • Fortunately for Alicia Johnston, SDA’s don’t believe in a literal or permanent hell. All the Evangelicals on here that are damning her to hell are for naught. That aside, SDA’a are almost more conservative than Evangelicals, so she will find herself ostracized from Adventism. They won’t let her stay, even just as a regular churchgoer. In the long run she’ll be better off though. She’ll gain her freedom and that’s a wonderful thing.

  • Wasn’t she single? She was not supposed to have any sexual intercourse at all, heterosexual or homosexual. Much less practice bi-sexuality. This is the problem with the American Church. It is all about feelings and not the Kingdom of God. Yes, there is grace for the fallen, but another thing is to indulge in sin and teach others to do the same.

  • Wait! Wasn’t she single? Wasn’t she supposed to not practice any sexual relationships at all? Homo or heterosexual? So that’s the real problem with the American Church. Feelings and private “revelations” instead of the Bible and the Kingdom of God. Yes. There is grace if we fall but for walking in sin, enjoying it and teaching it to others.

  • yeo you’re bothered
    HahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahahHahhhahahahahhhhahahah

  • The pursuit of justice serves humanity. the quest for injustice you support does not.

  • what are you blabbing about?

    Christianity is a self serving ideology that asserts one is forgiven by the only being that matters simply because one believes in that being.
    Thats not justice ya dolt, that opportunistic and self serving

  • So the fundamental part of Christianity which asserts one is forgiven because they believe in the
    sacrifice of Christ is irrelevant?
    Ok.

  • I’m not sure what the point you are attempting to make is or what it has to do with the topic at hand. If you are merely trying to make the argument “atheists are smart and Xians are dumb” it doesn’t impress anyone with your intellectual capability.

  • you’re the one who brought up justice…so if you wanted to stay on topic, why did you do that?
    Christianity is about believing ones faith in Jesus excuses their misgivings in exchange for their own salvation.
    Are Christians washed in the blood of the lamb or not?

  • So the idea of god is symolic for
    arrogance. Ok.

    Pssst, appeals to supremacy are demonstrated symbolically

  • Go and sin no more is precisely what I believe Jesus was talking about (to all of humanity) when speaking to her….John 8:11 is a verse I love, sweet tinder loving word of our creator.

    John 8:11 “She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” NKJV‬‬

    Do you think that Jesus was writing the lust (sins) of her accusers in the sand and that’s why they all abruptly left. I’m not sure but I believe E.G.W. spoke of this.

    Love always

  • Brother/Sister
    You are not even close.

    Sin is sin regardless of it’s type. She (all) would always be welcome in any SDA church.

    Question…..would you allow (hire) a professed practicing thief manage your churches money, or a professes practicing alcoholic/drug abusor be your church youth director. The answer would be no you wouldn’t.

    All sinners are welcome into the SDA church (I am a sinner, and so are you), the difference is we can not willingly sin (practicing) and hold membership/leadership positions.

    John 8:11 “She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.””NKJV‬‬

ADVERTISEMENTs