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Evangelicals support Trump’s Jerusalem decision because we care about the Palestinians

In this Sunday, Dec. 10, 2017 photo Palestinians walk by a national flag in east Jerusalem. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty - caption edited by RNS)

JERUSALEM (RNS) — I arrived here last week on the Palestinian group Hamas’ third “day of rage.” President Trump’s announcement recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital was still reverberating throughout the region yet in the epicenter of it all there was not an intifada in sight.

At a certain point following Friday’s prayers, journalists near the Damascus Gate outnumbered the protesters “three-to-one,” according to The Atlantic. And this was despite the very best efforts at provoking unrest by the terrorist agitators of Hamas, Hezbollah and their Iranian suitors.

The unexpected calm was in defiance of those using the Palestinian cause to put their own hegemonic aspirations in hyperdrive.

Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan had the audacity to appeal to the sacredness of Jerusalem for Christians even while his government imprisons pastors, confiscates ancient Christian property, and continues to threaten to convert the Hagia Sophia, a historic church, into a mosque.

Erdogan and his terrorist friends are very happy to use the Palestinians in pursuit of their own aims.

Yet, in Jerusalem, Palestinians were not taking the bait. It isn’t that they were happy about the United States’ decision. It’s just that many Palestinians are tired of being used as pawns.

They just want peace, and they want a brighter future. Some even appreciate the stability, security, rule of law, and prosperity brought to the city because of the democratic ideals of the State of Israel.

Evangelicals in the United States supported President Trump’s decision precisely because of their concern for the Palestinians in addition to their special relationship with Israel and the Jewish people.

Evangelicals are also tired of seeing innocent Palestinians abused and used by tyrants and terrorists.

As it turns out, I was actually first introduced to Jerusalem by Palestinians. For decades, Liberty University, where I used to teach, provided scholarships to Palestinian students based upon a promise that the university’s founder had made personally to the late Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat.

Some of those students became my friends when I was in college. I thought of them again this weekend, as I watched the leaders of Iran and Turkey as well as Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Muslim Brotherhood try their best to instigate unrest among the Palestinians.

President Trump’s decision was supported by evangelicals — and by so many others — because it was legal, sensible and strategic, and it was a decision made in pursuit of peace with the Palestinians.

The president’s decision complied with a law passed by Congress over 20 years ago, a law defied by every president since and a law that was further affirmed in June in a unanimous vote in the U.S. Senate. It was sensible because Israel’s seat of government is in Jerusalem, and most Palestinians had for years conceded that the capital of Palestinian state would be East Jerusalem, inferring the western half would remain in Israel.

A mukhtar, or Muslim civil leader, in East Jerusalem told me on Sunday that this is why the protests were considerably quieter than the media predicted.

“Nothing has changed for us,” he said. “Israel’s Knesset, president and prime minister are here. Many of the ministries are here. The decision of the United States effects nothing of our existing reality.”

The president’s decision was also strategic because it does not affect the future of the city in a negotiated two-state solution. He said he wanted “a great deal” for both sides, and added: “We are not taking a position of any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders. Those questions are up to the parties involved.”

All the while, it’s a new day in the region with unprecedented communication between Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates and the Israelis, making it nearly a certainty that this decision was no surprise to key Arab and Israeli stakeholders in the region.

Evangelicals close to the administration did not support the president’s decision because we favor Jews over Arabs nor for any obscure (and highly contested, I might add) theological reasons like those speculated about, reported upon and sensationalized in recent days.

Evangelicals supported the decision because we believe it was the smart and right thing to do. Ours was a geopolitical opinion, and not a theological one.

Evangelicals are not theocrats. And there’s no Armageddon brewing, so far.

But there are plenty of tyrants and terrorists who’d be happy to start one and not for the cause of Palestinians but on their backs and at the cost of their peace.

Yet, because of reasonable Israelis and Palestinians, I saw with my own eyes a Jerusalem that remains today, as the president said only a few days ago, “a place where Jews pray at the Western Wall, where Christians walk the Stations of the Cross, and where Muslims worship at the Al-Aqsa mosque.”

(The Rev. Johnnie Moore is an informal spokesperson for the evangelicals who advise the Trump administration. He is the founder of The KAIROS Company, a board member of the National Association of Evangelicals and the 2017 recipient of the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s “Medal of Valor.” The views expressed in this opinion piece do not necessarily reflect those of Religion News Service.)

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Johnnie Moore

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  • I think it’s funny that you think the 81% of white evangelicals who put Public Servant 45 in office believe there is a difference between a geopolitical opinion and a theological one. Especially when it comes to the United States. Or Israel.

  • Really? You’re going to try this on us, Johnnie Moore? The reality is rather different. Lots of Evangelicals could care less about the Palestinians, even the Christian Palestinians. In their minds, the declaration of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital is a thread in a larger cloth. You say it’s not about Armageddon, I’ve kept an eye on Evangelicals since the 1970s and the whole purpose of Evangelical support of Israel is because Israel must exist so that Jesus can come back. This is a big End Times view and you are being deceptive if you don’t think Trump recognizing Jerusalem doesn’t have meaning to millions of American Evangelicals.

    In fact, the only time I’ve heard about Palestinians in Evangelical circles is when I’ve heard talk about forcing the Palestinians into Jordan or elsewhere so Israeli Jews could have their land. There’s simply no care or concern for Christian Palestinians among American Evangelicals, because only Jews coilunt in your endtime theorizing.

    We’re not stupid out here; we know why Trump did this. It was an appeasement to American Evangelicals and pretty much rejected by the rest of the world. Mike Pence is going to Israel later this week; I believe he will get a cool reception from the local Christians, who were not helped by this in any way.

  • Lipstick on a theological pig is still lipstick on a pig. If you claim your theological beliefs inform every part of your lives, and ought to inform the lives of everyone else, it is disingenuous at best to claim that they don’t inform your geopolitical opinions. I would suspect that if you asked most evangelicals about the palestininians, you would find out that they are all Arabs and Muslims.

  • This Johnnie Moore guy is a great PR man. I forgot all about Charlottesville and Russia in about 600 words.
    Write another piece when it becomes beneficial for Trump and he reverses his decision. We are all better served when information can be spun in two different directions, especially when it’s done by pastors, for pastors, and their president.

  • Yep. We care about Palestinians all right, as long as they aren’t in Kansas anymore. The travel ban and alt right positions make much more sense now that I understand what is good for a goose stepper is good for the gander also.

  • I’d have no problem with Trump’s announcement IF HE HAD HAD A FIRM AGREEMENT WITH THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO RECOGNIZE JERUSALEM AS ALSO THE SEAT OF THE PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT, in other words, a quid pro quo. It’s not gonna’ happen for a long, long time if it happens at all. Palestinians will continue to be second-class citizens in Israel, and the Israelis will continue to build settlements. Trump is a jackass.

  • True peace for the middle east, as well as the entire rest of the world, will only be achieved through God and his kingdom, or heavenly government (Matthew 4:17).

    That government will soon replace all human governments (Daniel 2:44) and start its loving, just and peaceful direct rule over all meek persons, after putting an end to all wicked ones (Isaiah 11:1-5). Christ Jesus will be its ruling King (Isaiah 9:6,7).

    True worldwide peace and security will never be achieved by man, on his own, nor by any of his governments (Micah 4:3,4).

  • I really like your ‘pay no attention to the pastor behind the curtain’ line still.

    We Evangelicals Support Trump’s_______because we have no heart, no brains, and no courage.

    If we could get a little bit of heart brains or courage we wouldn’t need such good PR.

  • You had to bring up Hillary and her lipstick. Everyone knows that the Palestinians are good little boys from the Bronx. By the way, you got some of that lipstick smudged around your little finger.

    How disingenuous of you to claim that you know the difference between a theological belief and your own briefs.

  • “For decades, Liberty University, where I used to teach…”

    That pretty much is a dead giveaway we are talking to a dishonest Evangelical Trump apologist. Liberty U is not a school which wants diversity of thought beyond following the political dictates of Falwell & Co.

    “Evangelicals are not theocrats”

    Other than the multitudes who want to attack democratic liberties and give their faith color of law to the exclusion of others.

    The decision concerning Jerusalem was done to appeal to Evangelicals to the detriment of Israeli lives and US interests in the Middle East. It serves no purpose for the US at all.

    Its telling that both Evangelical and Russian agendas seem to dovetail quite nicely here.

  • “Everyone knows that the Palestinians are good little boys from the Bronx.”

    Huh????? We don’t speak wingnut, please explain yourself a little clearer.

  • First Matt 4: 17 is not authentic if you subject it to rigorous historic testing: e.g. http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb214.html

    And now again for some reality: (skip if you have read this before)

    Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

    Added details available upon written request.

    A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    “The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother’s womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. “

  • Or at least if Trump had consulted with Israel before doing so. The move seems to be done in such a way as to endanger Israelis in general, to no apparent benefit.

  • Point proved. You don t know the difference between a Palestinian and an Arab or Muslim.

    Actually, I’ve known a number of Palestinian Christians. But then, I’m not suffering from Hillary derangement syndrome.

    How disingenuous of you to claim to know anything.

  • And those prophets? They were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.

  • Ben,

    That is why the “good news” of God’s kingdom is being preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations before the end of this “wicked era” we live in takes place (Matthew 24:14).

    I have Israeli and Palestinian “brothers and sisters in faith” who meet together in peace and unity and are also sharing that “good news” with their neighbors. 💕🤗👏👏☝️

  • Ben,

    To confirm that unity and love between both those two groups, Google “special convention in Israel” which was held in Tel Aviv in 2012, with video.

  • So moving the embassy to Jerusalem furthers US interests there how?

    Its not doing anything for Israel.

    Palestinians are overjoyed by a chance to seem relevant to fellow Arabs

    This undermines our efforts in Iraq and Syria against Islamic State

    This benefits Russia who has a presence in the Levant thanks to Syria

  • Ben.. to be fair, many multitudes of God’s followers do a lot for peace… our perspective on this in the US is a little skewed because the majority of his followers across the globe are not Christian.

    It is also skewed in the US because the Evangelical minority here are so disproportionately loud and they actively work against peace. Yes, they are very loud, but despite their ridiculous claims otherwise, they in no way represent even a fraction of God’s people in this country.

  • It is not a surprise that most Palestinians simply want to live in peace. But Trump’s move does nothing to further that goal. There are extremists on both sides who don’t want peace, and this increases their fortunes, not that of the average Palestinian. Palestinians are not helped by exacerbating tensions. They need access to land and water. I have so little respect for Trump-supporting evangelicals. This willful ignorance is why.

  • Evangelicals care about Palestinians??? What a cruel and false statement! Evangelicals have NEVER protested the mistreatment of Palestinians or their permanent imprisonment in camps. Their food and water are cut off for collective punishment. Palestinian children live in abject poverty, without medical care, food, clean water, education – their lives are misery from birth to death. They have no homes, no jobs, no future, and no hope for a better life. Yet Evangelicals won’t lift a finger to help them, much less object to their living conditions. A starving Palestinian child means nothing to Evangelicals. This article is a joke!

  • With this PR spin & pitch, my fellow born-again Christian brother Johnnie Moore, you’ve just made history and are on your way to this self-fufilling prophecy:

    Revelation 11:2 – “The court … outside the temple … has been given to [America]; and [US President Donald Trump and his Christian Zionist pawns and patsies, the likes of Johnnie Moore] will tread under foot the holy city [Jerusalem] for forty-two months.”

  • That’s true, and that would be fair to say so.

    But I also know that at least American evangelicals are far to concerned about genitalia. I haven’t heard to many knocking the Grifter Grabber for threatening warcwith NK.

  • To watch his most recent public statement, an X-Hamas named Mosab Hassan Yousef speech… Which he gives explosive rebuttal against the PLO = Palestinian Authority, as a special guest speaker at the UN.. After a group of countries condemn Israel, in September 26/2017… Please watch this video link all the way throw, and PASS IT ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW….including Muslims.. MERRY CHRISTMAS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2NaiX-hvVQ

  • To watch his most recent public statement, an X-Hamas named Mosab Hassan Yousef speech… Which he gives explosive rebuttal against the PLO = Palestinian Authority, as a special guest speaker at the UN.. After a group of countries condemn Israel, in September 26/2017.. Please watch this video link all the way throw, and PASS IT ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW….including Muslims.. MERRY CHRISTMAS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2NaiX-hvVQ

  • To watch his most recent public statement, an X-Hamas named Mosab Hassan Yousef speech… Which he gives explosive rebuttal against the PLO = Palestinian Authority, as a special guest speaker at the UN.. After a group of countries condemn Israel, in September 26/2017… Please watch this video link all the way throw, and PASS IT ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW….including Muslims.. MERRY CHRISTMAS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2NaiX-hvVQ

  • Mirele…..

    To watch his most recent public statement, an X-Hamas named Mosab Hassan Yousef speech… Which he gives explosive rebuttal against the PLO = Palestinian Authority, as a special guest speaker at the UN.. After a group of countries condemn Israel, in September 26/2017… Please watch this video link all the way throw, and PASS IT ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW…including Muslims.. MERRY CHRISTMAS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2NaiX-hvVQ

  • Gapaul… To watch his most recent public statement, an X-Hamas named Mosab Hassan Yousef speech… Which he gives explosive rebuttal against the PLO = Palestinian Authority, as a special guest speaker at the UN.. After a group of countries condemn Israel, in September 26/2017… Please watch this video link all the way throw, and PASS IT ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW….including Muslims.. MERRY CHRISTMAS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2NaiX-hvVQ

  • The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 was passed to initiate and fund the relocation of the Embassy of the United States in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem no later than May 31, 1999.

    The act also called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city and for it to be recognized as the capital of the State of Israel.

    The law remained unimplemented by Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

    President Trump simply finally implemented it for non-theological reasons.

  • The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 was passed to initiate and fund the relocation of the Embassy of the United States in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem no later than May 31, 1999.

    The act also called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city and for it to be recognized as the capital of the State of Israel.

    The law remained unimplemented by Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

    President Trump simply finally implemented it.

  • If you’re looking for someone to lay an appeasement on, go with American Jews rather than American Evangelicals.

  • Most American Jews voted for Hillary. Most American Evangelicals voted for Trump. So while his move was a sop to both, the percentage of US Jews supporting Trump is much lower. They are not his base.

  • With all due respect, this is a crock. It’s very similar to “destroying a village to bring peace”—-faith-based logic.

  • Far be it from me to defend Erdogan…but the Hagia Sophia has not been a church for centuries. It was turned into a mosque in Ottoman times. Today it is a museum, although it’s true that Erdogan’s Islamist allies are trying to turn it back into a mosque. Either way, Trump’s move pushes Turkey away from Israel and the US, toward Russia, and to the detriment of our efforts against ISIS.
    So far this week, we’ve had evangelical cheerleaders claiming credit for defeating Roy Moore and saying they support the embassy move because they love Palestinians. These Orwellian tactics may work on the prole Trump voters but they don’t on the rest of us. I have a hard time believing your claim that, despite the Trump Evangelical Council’s promoting every point on the evangelical agenda, everyone in the room failed to mention how central Jerusalem is to the common eschatological viewpoint: the Temple will be rebuilt, Armageddon will commence, the Jews will all accept Jesus, and the Second Coming will arrive. The fact that Israel has been in control of the Temple Mount for 50 years and has made zero moves and has zero interest in doing any of that has not seemed to dampen evangelical enthusiasm.
    Thank you, though, for quoting the Palestinian community leader, who said what I’ve been saying the past two weeks. This changes absolutely nothing in terms of reality on the ground. All the major Israeli political institutions, like the PM and Knesset, have been in Jlem since before 1967. The security institutions, like the Ministry of Defence and Mossad, have been in the Tel Aviv area. That should tell you a lot.

  • I am confused. After reading this diatribe from the “informal” spokesperson for the Evangelicals, I still don’t understand (1) HOW exactly the move will bring peace and (2) WHY it has not brought peace, but resulted in violence and anger all over the world.

  • On another note, I wonder how Evangelicals reconcile the fact that the Talmud speaks of:
    (1) Jesus being a “sorcerer” and that He is “boiling in hot excrement in hell”.
    (2) Mary Magdalene being a “harlot”.

  • Does it also matter that the current Ashkenazi majority in Israel are descendants of the Turkic Khazar people from Central Asia who converted to Judaism in 600AD and who fled west to Europe (Ukraine, Poland, Belorussia, Germany) after the Turkic Khazar Khaganate (Kingdom) was destroyed by the Russians. Just Google “Khazar correspondence”.

  • Honestly, when your toddler asks for water do you say, “But Jesus said, “I am living water, those who come to me will never thirst.”

    Palestinians need food and water — the actual things — right now. This spiritualizing of legitimate need is annoying. It lets you walk away with clean hands and not a glimmer of a troubled conscience. And no need to think.

    “They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. ‘Peace, peace,’ they say, when there is no peace.” -Jeremiah 6:14

  • Apparently the author knows little about actual Palestinian Christians, who do not support Trump’s decision, and whose leaders have issued a unified statement panning it.

  • Doubtful. Certainly not a far greater percentage. The Israel-can-do-no-wrong section of the electorate already was for Trump. And although most American Jews likely feel that Jerusalem should be Israel’s capital, they still overall oppose Trump.

  • Rather than quibble with your (non)citations, I’ll cut to the chase: the Evangelicals don’t care, because their interest in Israel is geared toward the end times. Talmudic polemics have nothing to do with it.

  • “Evangelicals in the United States supported President Trump’s decision precisely because of their concern for the Palestinians in addition to their special relationship with Israel and the Jewish people.”
    “Concern for” implies a will to ease distress, but this article says nothing about why evangelicals in the United States think President Trump’s decision could ease the Palestinians’ distress.

  • This is history, not wishful thinking. It IS true and it MATTERS because it nullifies the claim of the Khazar converts to Judaism to these lands. These lands were supposedly promised to the SEMITIC Israelites, not to the Turkic Khazar converts. And many Palestinians are direct genetic Semitic descendants of the original Israelites.

    Here are some interesting facts:
    http://www.reformation.org/13th-tribe-correspondence.html
    http://www.fantompowa.info/13th%20Tribe.pdf

  • Bull. Evangelicals are as concerned for Palestinian well-being as they are for pro-choice advocates. That is to say, only to the extent the latter groups serve to validate their fallen world narrative. Evangelical interest has always focused on the fulfillment of End Times fantasies wherein Jesus returns to facilitate their escape from a moribund world destined for tribulation.

    No doubt individual Evangelicals have sincere humanitarian concerns, but as a block they’re as ruthless as any other group proclaiming themselves god’s elect. The problem, Johnnie, is that Evangelicals generally regard their geopolitical and theological agendas as the same, or at least overlapping, and are not at all the result of obscure or esoteric considerations of scripture. They are, in fact, mainstream Evangelical through and through, so drop the pretense.

  • And where are your citations?

    Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus’ mother was a whore: “She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters.” Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the “uncensored” text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, “Miriam the hairdresser,” had sex with many men.

    Gloats over Christ Dying Young, A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: “Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?–He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old.”

    Says Jesus was a Sorcerer, Sanhedrin 43a . Says Jesus (“Yeshu” and in footnote #6, Yeshu “the Nazarene”) was executed because he practiced sorcery.

    Horrible Blasphemy of Jesus, Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see footnote #4) is being boiled in “hot excrement.”

    Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: “On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?”

    Attacks Christians and their Books, Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians (“minim”) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations (see footnote #11 for the definition of minim).

    Sanhedrin 90a.Those who read the New Testament (“uncanonical books,” see footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come.

    Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6.

    Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).

    http://www.talmudblasphemy.com/talmud-and-Jesus.htm

  • By the way, I took a 23andme genetic test together with an Ashkenazi. His results shower the north Caucasus mountains and Austria. How do you explain that? And save me the circular arguments or non sequiturs – makes you sound very non-smart.

  • Excerpts from the Talmud – Interesting reading for Evangelicals.

    Non-Jews are Not Human Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Only Jews are human (“Only ye are designated men”).

    Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus’ mother was a whore: “She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters.” Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the “uncensored” text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, “Miriam the hairdresser,” had sex with many men.

    Gloats over Christ Dying Young, A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: “Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?–He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old.”

    Says Jesus was a Sorcerer, Sanhedrin 43a . Says Jesus (“Yeshu” and in footnote #6, Yeshu “the Nazarene”) was executed because he practiced sorcery.

    Horrible Blasphemy of Jesus, Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see footnote #4) is being boiled in “hot excrement.”

    Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: “On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?”

    Attacks Christians and their Books, Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians (“minim”) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations (see footnote #11 for the definition of minim).

    Sanhedrin 90a.Those who read the New Testament (“uncanonical books,” see footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come.

    Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6.

    Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).

    Non-Jews are Not Human Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Only Jews are human (“Only ye are designated men”).

    Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, “Oil of Anointing” and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals (“she-asses”).

    Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals.

    Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years “and a day” old).

    Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

    Kethuboth 11b . “When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/jews1.htm

  • The Talmud condones paedophilia – having sex with a 3 year old girl is OK.

    http://rense.com/general86/talmd.htm

    Kethuboth 11b
    [This debate concerns whether or not someone is a virgin. Virginity is prized above all, such that it is believed that a girl under the age of three will regain her virginity, even if a man has had intercourse with her. (Fn. 7 says, in regard to putting “the finger into the eye”: “I.e., tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years.”) Since virginity is prized above all, one could assume that this conclusion has allowed grown men to have sex with little girls with immunity.

  • 1. Trolling shillery of a youtube video is in poor taste in general.

    2. Hamas hates the Palestinian Authority aka Fatah. There was a civil war between Palestinian factions and Hamas created the de facto nation of Gaza during the split. An ex-member wouldn’t be too objective there either.

    3. “….including Muslims” Because Muslims are a monolithic group, especially in the middle east and elsewhere

    4. Youtube videos are not evidence of anything unless they feature kittens or amusing sports related injuries.

  • DNA evidence disproves the Khazar “hypothesis,” which has no backing in either history or genetics. It has been demonstrated that Ashkenazi Jews have a mostly Levantine genetic makeup with some European admixture — exactly what you’d expect from a population that left what is now Israel and arrived in Europe. In any event, converts to Judaism are considered just as Jewish as anyone born Jewish. The Torah did not make promises based on the racialist theories that Jew-haters have always been obsessed with. In any event, modern Zionism and the State of Israel are mostly secular concepts, not dependent on biblical precepts.

  • You mean like standing behind Neo-Nazis and furthering their agenda, particularly with immigration? Trump is pandering incompetent troll who acted simply to appease his uncritical Bible Thumper base.

    American Jews are far more concerned with the lives of Israelis than Evangelicals or Trump. Trump has unnecessarily imperiled Israelis over this nonsense.

    Plus he gave Hamas and Fatah a shot in the arm and international relevance after about a decade of a half of being ignored by their benefactors. Russia and Turkey benefit from this nicely.

  • “The law remained unimplemented by Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama.”

    Because it was a stupid and unnecessary idea which serves no interests of the US or Israel.

  • “President Trump simply finally implemented it for non-theological reasons.”

    To pander to theocrats who support him. Three prior presidents rightly knew it was a stupid and counterproductive move to bother with.

  • I don’t need citations, I made no claims.
    Judaism does not have the Christian concept of “hell.” Other than that, and the fact that the Talmud does not have “footnotes,” the Gittin 56b-57a reference is correct.
    The problem with your claim that the Talmud identifies Mary Magdalene as a harlot is severalfold. First, that claim was made by the Church for centuries! Only recently have they come forth and admitted that the biblical text provides no evidence for this assertion.
    The second is that the Talmud does not specifically talk about the woman the NT names Mary Magdalene. Shabbat 104b references ben [son of] Pandeira/ben Stada, an individual identified indirectly with Jesus. When discussing his name, the Gemara asks wasn’t his mother Miriam, who braided women’s hair? I’ve seen no evidence this was a euphemism for prostitute. BUT: the amoraim go on to make a word-play on Stada, saying it should be read as the Aramaic phrase “setat da,” meaning, “she strayed from her husband.”
    PS: Christian tradition has often portrayed Mary M. as having long, flowing hair..

  • Any given individual can have any given genetic material. Your friend could have had an ancestor from that region, and also had Ashkenazi ancestors. It doesn’t change the impact of the academic studies that disprove the Khazar hypothesis.

  • I’ve dealt many times with the Khazar wackadoodles. He’s at least the second who’s told me he or someone took a genetic test that proved he was Khazarian.

  • No, I do not mean like standing behind Neo-Nazis etc etc etc.

    I suppose you’re right – the Arabs simply loved Israel, wished it and its residents good health and long lives, and this will turn them into the kind of folks that form and support terrorist organizations.

  • The President has the last say on the matter, seeing that the embassy is a State Department matter. It was a symbolic gesture that every president before Cheeto knew to be monumentally stupid to implement.

  • When the State Department is under your control, you have the last say on where embassies are to be located.

  • You are distorting, misquoting and misinterpreting the Babylonian Talmud sections that you are allegedly citing. I have open the digital version of the Soncino Edition of the Babylonian Talmud and NOTHING that you have cited is accurate or accurately interpreted. You are clearly following in the appalling tradition of forced disputations between rabbinic scholars and the Inquisition. If you are actually interested in what scholars understand in most of these passages, please refer to the book, Christianity in the Talmud and Midrash by the English (and Christian) scholar, R. Travers Herford – Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 65-26183. A clear and concise discussion of the passage in Sanhedrin 106a is on pages 47-48. Your slanderous comments about Jews has no place in a respectful discussion of these issues.

  • Nope. Since when does having the power to do something equal having the power not to be criticized for doing something badly?

  • You understand that we have three branches of government, and that two concurred on this action, right?

  • Well Trump is doing his best to enable Arabs, most notably the Palestinian ruling factions. He just gave Fatah and Hamas a big boost in international sponsorship with this little faux pas. He appears to support terrorist organizations either by accident or choice.

    Trump didn’t do Israel any favors with this crap. However, it works well with the Neo-Nazis which seem to make up a large portion of his support base.

  • I don’t get any impression you have the beginning of a clue about the matters on which you continue to pontificate.

    For example, the Nazis and neo-Nazis, historically and currently opposed and oppose the Jews and Israel and therefore would not endorse moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

    If you happen to accidentally trip over a fact, do get back to me.

  • Your statement that “Any given individual can have any given genetic material” is ridiculous. If rye bread is 99% rye and 1% sand, will you claim that it is sand bread? You can have PREDOMINANT genes – your ancestors have not been everywhere. True, some Khazars mixed with the few Israelites that came to convert the Khazars, but over many generations, the few Israelite genes have completely melted into the Khazar gene pool.

    Actually, since ancient Homo Sapiens passed through Canaan/Palestine on the way out of Africa, then Canaan/Palestine belongs to the entire humanity.

    As far as my Ashkenazi friend, to his utter astonishment and surprise, his genes showed North Caucasus mountains and Austria – two clear genetic loci, absolutely nothing Levantine or Middle Eastern. Feel free to take the test and see for yourself.

    What STUDIES are you talking about? I posted a link to Dr. Elhaik’s genetic study for you to read. Stop playing ignorant! Where are the links to YOUR studies?

  • LOL, the two which are controlled by the same party and beholden to the same religious fanatical theocratic fools as a voting base. An appeal to authority is useless when that authority is known for acting incompetently.

    Again, where are the US interests in this move? As I see it the only ones benefiting here are Palestinians, Turkey and Russia.

  • Thank you for your insightful foreign policy analysis based, I am sure, on your years of experience in the Foreign Service and the intelligence signified by your nome de plume.

  • Elhaik is considered a joke among the academic community. “My” studies? Here’s just one. 30 geneticists, 13 universities, 9 countries, largest data set ever in this area of research, found no evidence of Khazar origin among Ashkenazim:
    Behar, Doron M.; Metspalu, Mait; Baran, Yael; Kopelman, Naama M.; Yunusbayev, Bayazit; Gladstein, Ariella; Tzur, Shay; Sahakyan, Havhannes; Bahmanimehr, Ardeshir; Yepiskoposyan, Levon; Tambets, Kristiina; Khusnutdinova, Elza K.; Kusniarevich, Aljona; Balanovsky, Oleg; Balanovsky, Elena; Kovacevic, Lejla; Marjanovic, Damir; Mihailov, Evelin; Kouvatsi, Anastasia; Traintaphyllidis, Costas; King, Roy J.; Semino, Ornella; Torroni, Antonio; Hammer, Michael F.; Metspalu, Ene; Skorecki, Karl; Rosset, Saharon; Halperin, Eran; Villems, Richard; Rosenberg, Noah A. (2013). “No Evidence from Genome-Wide Data of a Khazar Origin for the Ashkenazi Jews”. Human Biology Open Access Pre-Prints. Wayne State University (41). Retrieved 14 October 2014. Final version at http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss6/9/

  • The Ashkenazi majority of the Israelis have no genetic connection with the ancient Israelites. You are not Semitic people. You are descendants of the Turkic Khazars of Central Asia (north Caucasus mountains in Russia) who converted to Judaism in 600AD and who fled to Europe after the destruction of the Khazar kingdom by the Russians. Your closest genetic relatives are the Armenians, Georgians and other Caucasus mountain peoples, not the Israelites.

  • An ad hominem attack – zero arguments. Copy/paste here YOUR quotes for the sections I have quoted. Otherwise, your statements are completely unsubstantiated.

  • The only whackadoodles here are the ones who give $4 billion a year to those who insult the son of God, Jesus Christ. Say hi to Col. Leibovitz has ar the Ministry for Hasbara.

  • Fran, how exactly has Tump’s action contributed to “unity and love” between Israelis and Palestinians? Or between the US/Israel and the rest of the world?

  • You sound like an apologist for what is obviously a boneheaded move by our president. Hence the avoidance of discussing the merits of the idea and going off on tangents such as how it came to be. Like most Trump enthusiasts, you tend to avoid facts in favor of what amounts to be trolling and in this case spamming the same crap several times in the same discussion.

    Neo-Nazis would love nothing better than actions which are detrimental to Israel. One caused by our own government preferably. Israeli interests are not served by this, neither are US interests. Evangelicals, Nazis, Palestinian autocrats and Russia applaud the move.

  • Who was voted out of office in 11/16?

    Trump’s incompetence and pandering fecklessness is again causing trouble for nations we are allied with. Its telling that you avoid any claim that the current action has any benefit to the US or Israel. In fact it is costing Israeli lives and America’s ability to project power in the ME.

  • I am clearly more conversant with the facts than someone who can’t even come up with an argument as to the merits of the president’s actions. Still waiting to see where US or even Israeli interests are served by this action.

  • Tis mind boggling how much time has been and is wasted on this city’s residents and their religions that are based on embellishment and myth. Throw out the rabbis, imams and priests who perpetuate this idiocy and there will peace in the Middle East.

  • He’s cutting and pasting from neo Nazi garbage. Following tactics typically applied to the Koran by anti Muslim bigots.

  • Good luck with that one Sparky. Um no. Not even close. Please elaborate, I need a laugh

    BTW Chengiskhan here is an actual Nazi.

    You are just a dishonest troll.

  • I’m sorry, but your comment reads like gibberish. “His” whose? And I’m not watching a video. Put your comment in brief, readable English and I’ll respond.

  • gapaul ….. Maybe if you actually read the paragraph, and saw that I was only referring to one man….. Mosab Hassan Yousef which I did type in there.. You would know what HIS or WHOSE was??? And would not be so confused!! And if you don’t want to watch the very man who could possibly take down the Whole Hamas organization….. That’s your choice.

  • Quoting neo Nazi cretins on Talmud interpretation is not a proper discussion. But it is very similar as to how other bigots handle scripture of others. You are a perfect example of garbage used against a variety of religions and groups.

    Go back to 4Chan/Reddit

  • Even Stormfront suggested its trolls stop using the Khazar crap because it makes them look foolish. So even among your fellow Nazis you are a dim bulb.

  • Another ad hominem. You guys are the worst – spewing hasbara garbage from the racist, apartheid entity. Evil, evil people always up to evil tricks.

  • I did not say whether or not Trump’s actions contributed to unity and peace between any groups of persons and everyone else on the planet. I did not even mention him, nor any other politician, nor any related human government. I am an apolitical person, as well as a theocrat.

    Did you not see the video I referred to, which was a religious convention in Tel Aviv, Israel in 2012 attended by thousands of Israelis, Arabs and Palestinians together in peace and unity? They are all my brothers and sisters in faith, and I love all of them!

  • A video by a current or former member of Hamas is not going to be an objective source on Fatah, the PA, their enemy whom they have shed more blood against than Israel.

    Hamas had financial problems owing to listless sponsorship until just recently. They were dying on the vine. Islamicists preferred funding either ISIS or Iranian Shia militias. Iran had little use for them since they were fielding proxy forces they can directly control in the Levant thanks to their joint venture with Russia in the Syrian Civil War.

    Thanks to President M0ron, Hamas is now getting renewed support. Our president is either a blithering incompetent or malicious troll.

    You are a spam shilling troll.

  • Why would Islamist sponsor or try to fund ISIS… When ISIS killed Sunnis and Shia Muslims, all simply because they were not conservative enough… Doesn’t that go against the grain a bit??? It’s kind of like shooting yourself in the foot and not really worth its result…. Regardless of proxy development. Do you have any proof that this is actually happening?? If people are that stupid to support Hamas more then the usual…. Considering what we have scene from them, I think the only one showing any incompetence is them…. By the way did you actually see the video…. Or just presumed to see it?? And I am not a shilling Troll obviously.

  • ISIS is Sunni. Shia, have been their enemies as are Kurds and rival Al Qaeda splinters.

    “Regardless of proxy development”

    Regardless of the most important issue to the Palestinian ruling factions…

    “Do you have any proof that this is actually happening??”

    There are no spontaneous protests in Gaza or the West Bank. Both governments are too repressive to allow them. These are sponsored and work well with Turkey and Russia’s agendas as well.

    Don’t watch youtube videos as evidence. Not a reliable source.

  • Spuddie….. I didn’t really ask you about the whole Sunni or Shia war. Considering I know enough on why that happened.. What I was saying was why would ISIS be killing both Sunni and Shia individuals… You have loads of YouTube videos of them condemning ISIS. But never any of them actually doing something about it…. Probibly cause they were to chicken too… Truth be tolled!! And Hamas are in warring fractions all the time… Now with Jerusalem being known as the capital of Israel thanks to trump…… Their focus might be redirected against America rather then themselves.. But what difference dose it make?? Its not like it helps improve the life and over all well being of the everyday Palestinian person….YouTube may not be news.. But to say its not evidence of misleading proxies.. Is foolish to say in itself. Youtube teaches you much about the things that News dose not want to cover…. Especially those going in with a Cellphone cam!

  • The whole Saudi/Iran cold war is at the heart of the matter there. It is playing out as a shooting war in Iraq, Yemen, and Syria. It was the cause of the violent split with Palestinians to form 2 separate but hostile nations. It is the reason why Theocratic gangsters are in power in Gaza and Kleptocrats are in power in the West Bank.

    “What I was saying was why would ISIS be killing both Sunni and Shia individuals”

    Because ISIS isn’t really governed by religious concerns. It is a political entity first and foremost. Essentially warlords seeking to conquer territory and using ideology as a PR tool. Now that they have lost their territory, they are reverting to more petty forms of banditry. They are keeping with Al Queda’s tactic of being the “Hello Kitty” of terrorism*. Being willing to slap their names on anything out there just to keep the name visible.

    “But what difference dose it make??” Because groups which hindered peace were drying up and fading away until they got an infusion of cash and weapons from their former sugar daddies.

    *I can elaborate on that one if asked.

    “Youtube teaches you much about the things that News dose not want to cover…. Especially those going in with a Cellphone cam!”

    As Project Veritas’s BS factory can attest to Youtube can also be a great source for fabricating stories and creating false news narratives. It is not a reliable source of information. It is a reliable source of entertainment.

  • Spuddie… Politically in this Modern time!! Ya!! You could say its IRAN Vs Saudi… But religiously, or with ancient times. Sunni and Shia wars have nothing to do with Saudi or Iran. And everything to do with after Mohammed died who was to carry on the Islamic religion…. His family or his Followers…. Apparently he did not leave a memo or will when it comes to that….. And that’s why they have been killing each other…. Not too smart me thinks!!!
    I even find that rather hard to believe that ISIS is political… Since for the most part they seemed rather unorganized in the political objective and what result they were actually trying to go for…. Islamic caliphate or empire?? Well…. That blew up massively in their face. Now the Islamic world is worse off then what it was before…
    As for YouTube being also being about false narratives… I agree with you on that….. But better to know what those false narratives are. That too is revealing about the characterism and trustworthiness of any culture and their agenda…. Even with something that is fake… At times their can be a hint of truth.

  • Thank you. I would disagree with your characterization that the President “simply finally implemented it.” Although Trump is a simple man, there is nothing simple in the repercussions of his act, which reinforces the status quo.

  • I dated a Palestinian Catholic gal from Israel years ago. She likened Israeli treatment of her people to white treatment of blacks in the South decades earlier: second-class citizens.

  • “And everything to do with after Mohammed died who was to carry on the Islamic religion.”

    As I stated, it is a lazy conclusion which involves ignoring several centuries of history leading up to the present point.

    “I even find that rather hard to believe that ISIS is political… Since
    for the most part they seemed rather unorganized in the political
    objective and what result they were actually trying to go for….
    Islamic caliphate or empire??”

    Because you didn’t look at the stories beyond propaganda sloganeering by ISIS themselves. All their actions took on the form of a group which acted like every other warlord gang in history. Their political objective was to hack out a state of their own from the chaos of Syria and Iraq. They spilled over into Kurdish Iraq in order to grab oil fields for themselves. It was always about land, money and power for them. Which is also why I-S largely avoided operating in areas of Syria dominated by other rebel factions. It kept Russia from carpet bombing them.

    “That blew up massively in their face.”

    Only because they didn’t account for another group with more coherent nationalist goals and a longer history of fighting much larger, better equipped foes, the Kurds.

  • Spuddie… Indeed talk about lazy conclusion…. That one paragraph itself is as as lazy as it gets. Talk about overally generalizing a point of view or historical fact…. Not sure how you got WHEN MOHAMMED DIED WHO WAS TO CARRY ON THE FAITH…… too responding …. AS I STATED IT LAZY CONCLUSION WHICH INVOLVES IGNORING SERVERAL CENTURIES OF HISTORY LEADING UP TO THE PRESENT POINT…. ( scratching head) Not sure how you came to that conclusion…. I think they have been right on target following the centuries of their bloody history. But anyways… Ya well I tend to agree with you on most of what you said…. But if you observe the Quran…. ISIS was infact showing off the true nature of Islam…. But not the money craping part….. But the caliphate part absolutely… And its not like we don’t see this nature happening in other areas of the world too…. Like London or Palestine or so forth… And honestly why would so many people and muslims from all over the world join them… Like seriously there a lot! That is if they were all just fake!

  • It doesn’t help you at all that there was essentially over a 1000 year lull in the allegedly all important sectarian conflict which didn’t get re-ignited until imperialist divide and rule of the Middle East after the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire in 1918. One which went on the backburner yet again between the end of 1945 to 1979.

    “But if you observe the Quran”

    I sincerely doubt you have read it beyond a few passages excerpted by various anti-muslim groups. Moreover, I doubt you have bothered to even have the barest contact with actual believers of the faith to the point where you can spout off about their beliefs. We already have one sectarian bigot on this thread using the same rhetorical tactics when referencing the Talmud and Judaism.

    “ISIS was infact showing off the true nature of Islam”
    Which is exactly what ISIS wants you to say because it helps them and cuts off support to its most important enemies (who are almost entirely Muslim themselves).

    http://warisboring.com/the-islamic-states-assault-on-the-gray-zone/#.5gxrg58te
    https://warisboring.com/american-muslims-turn-in-lots-of-terrorists/
    https://warisboring.com/the-kurds-are-quietly-annexing-kirkuk/

    You are doing ISIS a favor with such nonsense.

    “But the caliphate part absolutely.”

    The caliphate part is simply trying to give a gloss on basic warlord land grabbing behavior. To give it a patina of social acceptability and recruitment possibilities not available simply to rogue former units of the Syrian army. Like invoking Joshua and Aaron to justify violently taking over territory for Judeo-Christian belief.

    ” And honestly why would so many people and muslims from all over the world join them… Like seriously there a lot!”

    Jeez, can you be a bigger shill for ISIS?

    Now comes my explanation of the “Hello Kitty School of Terrorism”. Hello Kitty, aka Sanrio Corporation does not produce anything. It is a brand name and logo. They make their money off of licensing those to anyone willing to make a product with that logo. From note pads, plush toys, luggage, to waffle irons, to sex toys.

    Al Queda was never a large organization. But one thing they loved to do is sell their brand name to any terrorist group which wanted international press. You wanted to get CNN to cover the bombing of a developing world area where they would largely ignore, claim you were an Al Queda branch. OBL didn’t care. It made him look more powerful than reality permitted. AQ also started taking credit for practically every ne’er do well and loner who did something violent and stupid. ISIS being a splinter from AQ simply took the tactic and ran with it.

  • By “status quo”, I am referring to the Israeli-Palestinian situation, not to the location of the U.S. embassy.

  • It would have no impact on the Israeli-Palestinian situation.

    It was intractable before, it remains intractable.

  • The U.S. now has even less leverage to bring Israel to the negotiating table to effect a truly just resolution of the conflict.

  • It never had any leverage with the PLO or Israel.

    Hezbollah is a client of Iran.

    What leverage did it give up?

  • Would that settlement take place before or after the PLO and various Iranian surrogates accepted the existence of Israel?

    Or after Miss America makes the world a place of happiness and light and butterflies?

  • .
    Moore: “Evangelicals in the United States supported President Trump’s decision precisely because of their concern for the Palestinians in addition to their special relationship with Israel and the Jewish people.

    “Evangelicals are also tired of seeing innocent Palestinians abused and used by tyrants and terrorists.”

    C’mon, Johnny — hit us with some relevant quote from evangelicals that come anywhere close to supporting these utterly absurd assertions.

    ‘Cause I call “Bull Shirt”.
    .

  • Judging by your writing, your bulb burned out a long time ago. As far as Nazi, the REAL NAZIS are the ones who built the Gaza concentration camp, are rationing the food for the people there and shoot-to-kill at anyone trying to escape. The REAL NAZIS are currently waging Holocaust against the Palestinian people.
    Yeah, the US taxpayers give $4B to sustain the Apartheid regime while millions of AMERICANS have no healthcare and hundreds of thousands of AMERICAN kids go hungry every day.

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