World Vision's U.S. President Rich Stearns, center, visits with Syrian refugees in Irbid, Jordan. Photo by Jon Warren, courtesy of World Vision

World Vision to recognize employees' same-sex marriages

World Vision's U.S. President Rich Stearns, center, visits with Syrian refugees in Irbid, Jordan. Photo by Jon Warren, courtesy of World Vision

World Vision's U.S. President Rich Stearns, center, visits with Syrian refugees in Irbid, Jordan. Photo by Jon Warren, courtesy of World Vision

 This image is available for web publication. For questions, contact Sally Morrow.

(RNS) Christian relief organization World Vision has announced that it will no longer define marriage as between a man and a woman in its employee conduct manual, a groundbreaking change for an evangelical institution and a reflection of the impact that gay marriage is having on religious organizations.

The organization's U.S. branch will recognize same-sex marriage as being within the norms of "abstinence before marriage and fidelity in marriage" as part of the conduct code for its 1,100 employees.

"I want to be clear that we have not endorsed same-sex marriage, but we have chosen to defer to the authority of local churches on this issue," said World Vision's U.S. President Rich Stearns in a letter to employees.

World Vision is the second-largest organization listed with the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, behind Salvation Army. It also ranks among America's top 10 charities, with revenue around $1 billion.

"I want to reassure you that we are not sliding down some slippery slope of compromise, nor are we diminishing the authority of Scripture in our work," Stearns said. "We have always affirmed traditional marriage as a God-ordained institution. Nothing in our work around the world with children and families will change."

A World Vision spokesperson said Stearns was traveling and not available for an interview.

In an interview with Christianity Today, Stearns said the organization's board was "overwhelmingly in favor" of the change. But he stressed the decision is not driven by theology.

"This is not an endorsement of same-sex marriage," he told the magazine. "We have decided we are not going to get into that debate. Nor is this a rejection of traditional marriage, which we affirm and support.

"There is no lawsuit threatening us," he added. "There is no employee group lobbying us. This is simply a decision about whether or not you are eligible for employment at World Vision U.S., based on this single issue, and nothing more."

In 2012, Washington state, where World Vision U.S. is based, became one of the first states to legalize same-sex marriage by popular vote. The organization also has employees who attend churches that conduct same-sex marriages, including the Episcopal Church and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, among others.

In 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear a case involving three employees who were fired by World Vision, allowing the relief group to maintain its mandatory statement of faith for its workers. A ruling from the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sided with World Vision in a case involving three former employees who were fired because they did not believe in the deity of Jesus or in the doctrine of the Trinity.

Teams from the Christian relief agency World Vision distribute food aid to villages in Myanmar by boat because many roads were washed away by Cyclone Nargis, which claimed more than 140,000 lives when it roared ashore on May 1, 2008. Religion News Service photo courtesy of Wah Eh Htoo/World Vision

Teams from the Christian relief agency World Vision distribute food aid to villages in Myanmar by boat because many roads were washed away by Cyclone Nargis, which claimed more than 140,000 lives when it roared ashore on May 1, 2008. Religion News Service photo courtesy of Wah Eh Htoo/World Vision

 This image is available for web publication. For questions, contact Sally Morrow.

Before he came to World Vision, Stearns was a CEO for Parker Brothers Games and Lenox, the fine-china manufacturer.

New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof featured World Vision in 2010, praising Stearns for guiding evangelicals away from focusing so much on sexuality.

In its interview with Stearns, Christianity Today writers said, "World Vision hopes to dodge the division currently 'tearing churches apart' over same-sex relationships by solidifying its long-held philosophy as a parachurch organization: to defer to churches on theological issues, and focus instead on uniting Christians around serving the poor."

Stearns said as much in his 2010 book “The Hole in Our Gospel,” when he lamented that Christians have become better-known for what they oppose than what they favor.

“We’re seen to be against homosexuality and gay marriage, against pornography and sexual promiscuity, against alcohol and drug abuse, abortion, divorce, Islam, evolution ... even against those who believe that global warming is a threat,” he wrote. 

Stearns said that he seeks unity among Christians fighting poverty.

"This is also not about compromising the authority of Scripture," Stearns told CT. "People can say, 'Scripture is very clear on this issue,' and my answer is, 'Well, ask all the theologians and denominations that disagree with that statement.'"

Criticism from many Christians came swiftly after Monday's announcement.

Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptists' Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, took aim at the new policy, writing, "At stake is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

"If sexual activity outside of a biblical definition of marriage is morally neutral, then, yes, we should avoid making an issue of it," he wrote. "If, though, what the Bible clearly teaches and what the church has held for 2000 years is true, then refusing to call for repentance is unspeakably cruel and, in fact, devilish."

Donor bases come and go, he wrote. "World Vision is a good thing to have, unless the world is all you can see."

Retired megachurch pastor John Piper called the decision tragic. "I pray they will repent and turn back to their more faithful roots," he wrote.

Billy Graham's son Franklin Graham, president of the relief organization Samaritan's Purse, said the new policy is "ungodly" while interviewed on Family Research Council’s radio program. He suggested that the organization could eventually approved of polygamous relationships.

“It’s obvious World Vision doesn’t believe in the Bible,” Graham said, who also released a statement. “I am sickened over it.”

Meanwhile, others were tweeting support, including Denver pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber. "What a day. I think I'll start tomorrow by giving @WorldVisionUSA a big fat donation. Who's with me? I hear they are losing donors. #glbt"



  1. Wow. Very, very sorry to hear that news. I’ve always had a lot of respect for World Vision, a genuine Christian success story for decades. But this, THIS development, is pure unbelievable.

    It’s saddening to see Stearns attempting to justify this particular move. The Bible itself — Old Testament, New Testament, in Hebrew, Greek, English, or any other language in the solar system — makes absolutely clear that marriage is exclusively between a man and a woman. That’s how God designed it from the beginning. Jesus Himself said it out loud (Matt. 19:4-6).

    If anybody out there had any doubts that American Christianity is in extremely serious trouble, this shocker should eliminate them immediately.

  2. If World Vision espouses to conduct ministry outside the Word of God it shall do so without my funding.

  3. As I’ve noted numerous times before, it’s simply incorrect to suggest all Christians are anti-gay. It seems to me what you really regret is this move makes it that much harder for you to drag all Christians down to the level of disloyal, immoral anti-gays, Doc. And I suppose you regret they won’t hurt loving, committed same gender couples the way you’d like them to do. But your anti-gay agenda has had much more disastrous defeats recently, don’t let this latest defeat get you down too much. There are yet more defeats coming from federal courts weekly now.

  4. Want to know what the record is for anti-gays and their routine threats of boycotts, John? Zero. Nada. Anti-gays have never cooked up a successful boycott. The most notorious anti-gay boycott was against Disney in the 1990s, when Disney started treating their LGBT employees equally. Disney was so flush with cash at that time they bought ABC for cash.

    But the first boycott LGBT Americans organized, in the 1970s, resulted in the Florida Orange Juice managers dumping their anti-gay spokesperson.

    Sorry, those are just the facts, John. Anti-gays are simply too few to make any boycott work.

  5. He’s right, it’s not a slippery slope. It’s a cliff.

    It’s not about being narrow or mean or cruel or hateful. It is about drawing the line the same place God does. God (and we should also) loves everyone, but He will tell the woman caught in adultery as many times as it takes, “Go and sin no more.”

    Just because I disagree with someone doesn’t mean I hate them. Can the LGBT community say the same thing? I’m not the one who can’t tell the difference.

  6. So why give to this so called Christian Organization?–you may as well give to an organization that doesn’t claim to be Christian because there is no difference between the two. Seriously, I don’t get it. Calling yourself a Christian organization doesn’t make you one—as we see here.

  7. Glad to see you are so full of Christian love and charity that you would deny funding to children affected by famine, disaster, war and poverty in order to maintain your bigotry. Calling yourself a Christian in light of such things doesn’t make you one.

  8. Doc, Donna, John, Jonathan, these are the people you want to keep your money away from

    “World Vision is a Christian humanitarian organization dedicated to working with children, families, and their communities worldwide to reach their full potential by tackling the causes of poverty and injustice.”

    “We work in nearly 100 countries, serving all people, regardless of religion, race, ethnicity, or gender.”

    “We provide emergency assistance to children and families affected by natural disasters and civil conflict, work with communities to develop long-term solutions to alleviate poverty, and advocate for justice on behalf of the poor.”

    “Motivated by our faith in Jesus Christ, we serve alongside the poor and oppressed as a demonstration of God’s unconditional love for all people.”

    They are such an evil organization!

  9. Fig leaf alert!

    “…we have chosen to defer to the authority of local churches on this issue”

    They have no authority by virtue of acting directly against scripture.

  10. Its amazing what bigotry is making Christians say these days:
    -Its making them want to revive Jim Crow Laws
    -They are attacking other religions and beliefs and calling it their right
    -Its making them want to disrupt and harass families of fallen soldiers
    -Its allowing them to deflect publicity over clergy sexual abuse scandals
    -Now its making them want to attack charities which affect vulnerable endangered children.

    Such clear evidence of living a Christ-like life of love, charity and moral behavior. 🙂

  11. A lot of money has been given by my family and friends to world vision. My daughter’s birthday parties have been “fund raisers” for world vision. Kids like picking out gifts like baby chicks and lambs. I write this with a heavy heart but we will no longer support world vision. God’s Word says marriage is between a man and a woman. If the employees of world vision are to be Christ followers this makes no sense.

  12. There are plenty of other organizations who do the same thing to give our support to.

  13. Talk about a mealy mouthed statement. They have abandoned God’s love for the “love” of the world. In Testaments of Love, Leon Morris asks, “How do we
    harmonize the assurance that ‘God is love’ with the assertion
    that ‘our God is a consuming fire’? Most of us never
    think about such problems, and in the end our idea of love is
    indistinguishable from that of the world around us.”1

  14. You probably haven’t noticed Larry, but it’s not only possible, but in fact quite EASY, to do precisely what you’re calling for WITHOUT contributing a dime to World Vision.

    At the church I attend, we are directly linked, both online and in person, with a couple of trustworthy African Christian charities. THEY know what the situation is on the ground, they see and experience the real deal with the children and mothers every day, and THEY know exactly where and how to apply the monies contributed to them.

    Now obviously there’s no doubt about World-Vision’s huge abilities to likewise minister to the poor and to the children. The difference is that we KNOW the indigenous African churches and charities aren’t going to spring any homosexual Jack-In-The-Box surprises on us. With or without American monies, they flat-out stick to the Bible, thank you very much, and they do NOT surrender under any conditions to the homosexual forces.

    Those are people you can trust. By the way, if you know of any (ahem) ATHEIST clubs that are outperforming the African Christian charities, you just list ’em right there. Take as many decades as you need to find ’em.

  15. I too, as a long time supporter of World Vision will have to direct my resources elsewhere; I grieve at being compelled to do this, but there are many worthy Christian charitable organizations who will not wilt before federal judges who legislate from the bench, who will not wilt from the press of popular opinion. and who will not compromise on representing the Whole Gospel of Jesus Christ. To Larry, none of the Christians who are grieved by this decision of World Vision lack charity or love, , they are simply compelled and called to by the Word of God; ‘ A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to one wife.’

  16. If they had come down on the other side of the question, you would have called them evil, despite their charities.

  17. No doubt about it. Atheists generally love to hate on missionaries. I guess now they make an exception for gay-friendly ones. That has little to do with their typical reasons for hating the missionaries, of course, but in the modern atheist mind gay-friendliness “covers a multitude of sins.”

  18. All this criticism of this organization…this is why I could never be a Christian. God, just when I think you people can’t get any more petty and self-righteous. Fred Phelps would be proud.

  19. I am not the one claiming to be making a moral stance here. I am pointing out the big hole in the self-righteous attitudes here.

    Obviously you guys think treating gay employees like crap is more important than helping children in need. You have some set of priorities there. Not one which I would consider moral, but that is just my opinion here.

  20. They dare to treat gay employees like everyone else. How shocking. Oh well those starving children didn’t need your money anyway.

  21. You mean if they had maintained the earlier status quo?

    Don’t forget that not all Christian denominations oppose gay families. And not all Christians are straight.

    I find it interesting that people are abandoning support of this well known relief organization because they’re willing to recognize and respect all of the families of their employees. But you gotta have priorities. What’s most important, right?

  22. You disagree with the idea that LGBT people should be able to live with a measure of human dignity. To be able to work, find a home, raise a family, without being attacked or discriminated against. That is pretty hateful. It shows either a callousness at best, vitriol and bile at worst.

  23. When given a choice between self-righteous finger wagging and helping people, you fine upstanding Christians choose the finger pointing.

    After all, it inflates your ego with that feeling of being holier than thou. Plus you get to tell yourself you are going to heaven. The best part is you never have to lift a finger to do any kind if good works or deeds for your fellow people. All the benefits of a stance and none of the work at being a good person.

  24. So World Vision won’t hire or could fire if you are having sex outside of marriage, which is a moral theological issue, but they are willing to not make decisions on gay marriages. They are being two faced.

  25. This just breaks my heart. There are plenty of other Christian organizations that still stand on God’s word on this issue and help children. Samaritans Purse for one. We have a large World Vision warehouse 15 miles fom where I live. No more will I support them. Richard Stearn, this is not the right path to take.

  26. Charity starts at home and that is where I will keep it from now on. I do not trust any of these so called charity organizations. I pick and choose who gets it.

  27. This thread of comments will be my reference point next time somebody tries convincing me that the majority of the Christian faith is all about being anti-gay over all else. You all will abandon a beloved and effective service organization because they now recognize-but-not-affirm legal gay marriages of employees. It’s your collective right of course. But at least you have your priorities.

  28. Let the results be your validation, world vision. Look at how The World applauds your new direction. Look at how glowing The World sheds praise on you.

    Look at how The World, no longer hates you, but accepts you and approves of you.

    Now look into your bible and see what The Lord has to say about that.

    What WE as Christians believe about homosexuality is irrelevant. What God thinks about it, is a different matter. This isn’t about what you think, it’s about who you are going to follow and whose approval you are going to pursue.

  29. How convenient. When challenged as to what YOUR belief system is collectively doing for destitute children and mothers in Africa, you get to duck out and claim you’re not “making a moral stance.”

    Yet you think you’ve got the right to criticize those Christians who are supportive of relief, for insisting that high-profile Evangelical Christian charities like World Vision at least stick with the Bible and NOT surrender to the Gay Marriage Cult.

    Adding to your hypocrisy, is the fact that W-V directly discriminates against Christians who disagree with W-V’s traditional (and biblical) doctrine of the Trinity. If you deny the Trinity, even if you totally believe John 3:16 and most of the Bible, World Vision doesn’t hire you, directly citing the Bible as their reason for not hiring you.

    But you haven’t offered one word of complaint about THAT situation, have you? Nope. So why are you upset when we say that World Vision needs to stick with the Bible and not surrender to the Gay Marriage Cult?

  30. As Paul pointed out, Christ Himself is the priority.

    Last time I checked the Bible, Christ wasn’t a gay marriage activist.

  31. so you’re assumption is that the Christian Faith is above all else, all about being anti-gay?

    You really think we collectively care that much what turns another person on sexually?

    If that’s the depth of your consideration of a world view it’s a bit myopic. There is much more to it than that, despite what your TV is telling you to think about the issue. Homophobia is a media term, not a medical condition.

  32. LOL…Larry this is really eating you up isn’t it…..I mean you are like…post,post,post!!
    I am interested in following God and his command’s. YOU don’t really measure up to that. So go on with your blah blah blah blah.

  33. Joe: What else could I gather from this series of comments, as well as from shouts of condemnation from folks like Franklin Graham?

    I wrote nothing of homophobia. I just noted with interest the level of grief by commenters here. They have supported World Vision for years. Now they’re dropping it like a hot potato because an employee manual was update to include married gay families. It’s Christian service mission means nothing, I guess, as long as gay families aren’t automatically cast out first!

  34. I wasn’t aware that the World hated World Vision. But Christians now hate World Vision. Interesting.

  35. Jon, I “have” cancelled my account with world vision. I will open a new one with a different org. BUT….it is my money right? Therefore I have the RIGHT to choose, and why do you care what I do with MY money? ……it is MY money. Which I am “giving away”. All of this is free choice, as free citizens in America. Nobody here owns you an explanation. You probably don’t even have an account with WV.

  36. It’s a reference to scripture. Nobody is suggesting Christians now hate world vision, except you.

    If people change where they donate funds due to what an organization chooses to honor and respect, it’s not necessarily a “boycott”, protest, or reflection of “hate”. For myself, it is a calculated decision to send my meager and hard earned resources to organizations God is going to make successful.

    but you’re going to decide what christians are thinking, intending, and feeling regardless of what we say or what is true… aren’t you.

  37. By the way.. we support a girl in Haiti through world vision. We’re not going to withdraw our support of her because of what World Vision is doing here.

    It would have probably affected our decision to choose them initially though.

    My point is, just because you paint us with one brush and color, doesn’t make it accurate, or the issue as simple as “christians hating gays.” Our goal is to fear and honor God first, even if that means pissing off the world.

  38. All of this discussion and “opinion” really doesn’t matter. In the beginning God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. It is reiterated in the New Testament marriage is between a man and a woman. All of the “feelings” and anti-gay attacks from the left cannot and will not change the Law of God. Gay Marriage and Gay relationships spit in the face of God. There is zero justification for it, however hard you may try. I do not hate homosexuals, I hate the sin and the way it is twisted in our society. I sin just like everyone else, but I don’t attempt to justify it by twisting God’s word. It’s time for the church to stand up boldly and stop cowering to political pressure.

  39. I feel bad for all the kids who will go un-sponsored due to this, this was completely unnecessary.

  40. Does demonizing that which you don’t understand help you sleep better?

    “Jim Crow laws”? Seriously?

  41. Of course it’s your money, Justin. I indicated as much at the top of this particular thread.

    You’re correct. I don’t give to World Vision. I give to a specific relief fund through my denomination. I also give to Red Cross and a few other charities.

  42. Good for you, Joe. Seriously.

    As for the others who’ve pulled away from World Vision, what else has changed that’s incurred their opposition and caused them to drop the group? What else can I gather from these responses?

  43. Who created Steve then?

    Just basking in Tim’s love…

  44. Don’t feel badly, Erik! World Vision will be getting many more additional donors, including myself, due to this decision! I realize it is not a full endorsement of the gay community, it is a step in the right decision.

  45. It is about being narrow, mean, cruel, and hateful, Jonathan. When you tell another they cannot work for a charity because they are going to hell, it is cruel. When you tell someone they cannot marry who they love because that love is unnatural and disgusting, it is hateful. When you tell someone they deserve less respect and fewer rights because they are not as clean and holy as yourself, it is narrow, mean, cruel, and hateful. You can tell yourself otherwise, but if you are going to spew hate, at least own it.

  46. I have supported this ministry for the past 15 years. I can no longer support our girl if World Vision stands against what God’s word says. So sad that they are the ones letting down the people in need.
    Lev. 20:13 ” “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

  47. I have supported World Vision for years. This is so sad for the children that Richard Stearns has made this selfish, culturally correct, but non Christian decision. Thankfully, there is Voice of the Martyrs and that is where my money will be redirected monthly.

  48. You cannot pick and choose which commands are “valid” or “acceptable” at any given time. Either you believe the Bible to be the inerrant, infallible word of God -the entire Bible – or you do not. It is that simple. There is no room for political correctness. I too am looking for another like charity…

  49. Doc, I do not know how these charities rank in amounts donated, or how many people are served, but here are a few secular organizations that came to mind: Doctors without Borders, UNICEF, Red Cross, ACLU. I am sure there are many more, but these are probably the most notable. I would also like to point out that the people who contribute and volunteer for these organizations help people in need without hope of eternal reward and without pushing their beliefs on the people they are helping.
    I hope your African charity provides condoms and educates people they are helping about safe sex and HIV/AIDS prevention.

  50. The saddest thing is that some will see this as an endorsement of sinful homosexual behavior and be further led away from the truth.

  51. Jeff, seriously, how do you think Jesus would respond to your post? I am an atheist because I do not think there is evidence for a god, thus do not think Jesus was his son. However, I do believe Jesus was a real person, and believe many of his teachings worthy of modeling. I have read the New Testament several times and I feel confident Jesus would not approve of your decision. Will you also tell your daughter why she will have to choose a different charity?

  52. CarrotCakeMan,

    While I generally agree that boycotts don’t work, the nature of this situation is troubling for World Vision. Many, if not most of the donors are evangelical Christians who learn of the program at Christian concerts. Disney is a secular company, just like so many others who derive tons of income from everyone. World Vision is a Christian organization that may feel a tough time from this. While I currently sponsor a child and will see that obligation through to her 18th birthday, I may choose to take that money and give it to the Lord’s work in a different area afterwards. And there will be a change in my will that has World Vision receiving a sizable contribution. Plenty of other Christian organizations who don’t choose to violate the spirit of the Bible in this way. Obviously this CEO is from the corporate secular world and is acting according to your thoughts above, not understanding that this may devastate this organization.

  53. ‘How dare to treat gay employees like everyone else.’ You obviously do not understand that World Vision WAS once an evangelical organization, but no longer. Think of this….an atheist organization ‘should be required to hire a Christian’, Right, Larry?

  54. Karen, your response takes the cake. You would drop the little girl you are sponsoring and then blame it on the charity? I disagree with people that have chosen to stop donating money to WV, but for you to drop the child…..
    Sorry. I can’t imagine Jesus sitting there clapping his hands in approval.
    I wish I knew which little girl you were sponsoring, because I would take her.

  55. I am glad you are not trying to pretend you care about the lives of children in desperate situations. That treating gay employees badly and according to your sectarian prejudices are more important to you.

    So you would never have given them money to begin with because of sectarian differences. Making your objections are just hemming and hawing for effect.

    I just find it tough to attack a charity helping children on the grounds you are using.

    Embezzling money, spending too much on administrative costs, spending too much money on proselyting and not enough on real efforts, abusing children, abusing workers, these all are real moral objections to a charity. Getting in a tiff because they decided to treat their workers more fairly than you would have is petty.

  56. ” Think of this….an atheist organization ‘should be required to hire a Christian’, Right, Larry?”

    Your argument is completely off-topic and silly. World Vision already has gay workers. They just decided to treat the worker’s legal marriages the same as any other married employee for employer benefits purposes. Nobody forced them into it. They did it on their own accord.

    Such a horror. Fair treatment of workers based on legal principles and basic human decency!

  57. My name is Marian. I found out about this organization last year in April. I start sponsoring a boy from Mauritania, Africa and last month another boy from Ethiopia. I’m shocked to hear this sad news. I really start having connection with the boy from Mauritania and now I might have to give up donating to this organization since they agree with the same sex marriage. I was trying to get some opinions to see what is the right thing to do. It’s sad but the Christianity in these days it’s slowly going down. We, as Christians, need to pray that God can open their minds and realize that they are doing a big mistake with this.

  58. It makes the discussion far more honest than many would like. 🙂
    Legalized business discrimination. That’s what you guys were looking for.
    I am more surprised how easily people were willing to make those arguments with a straight face. In this day and age.

  59. Jamie,
    Although I disagree with your opinion of WV, I applaud your decision to honor your commitment to the child. Another poster said she was dropping her child. Anyway, I am sure WV will lose some conservative Christian donors, but will gain many other donors for this decision.
    It saddens me that so many religious people care more about the “sin” and less about the people in need.

  60. Not at all. I am having fun with this.

    Watching how easily Christians attack each other for really silly reasons. Really reinforces why I can never take you guys seriously.

  61. Stepheni T……..there are MANY people that care about people in need but reject WV’s stance. For that reason, they will leave WV and give to one of them. There is nothing exclusive in the caring dept. to WV.

  62. Stephen T,

    It is not that Christians care more about the sin and less about the people. It is that we care strictly about the Bible. It is the basis of the entire church. If we can pick and choose which parts to follow, then the words are meaningless. The Bible clearly teaches that as we decide what parts of Scripture that we will choose to follow, we have forsaken the Lord. If we call ourselves Christians we need to follow Biblical teaching. Just because society has now deemed something o.k., doesn’t mean that we can adhere to it.

  63. Carrot, that was the most beautiful yet witty and sarcastic response one could’ve made to Doc’s comment. Ditto! It’s amusing to see how one’s god always hates the same things one hates. There are over 800 sins clearly listed in the Bible, including petty stuff like eating shellfish, getting tatoos and wearing clothes made out of mixed fabrics. So why are Christians overly fixated on homosexuality, just one of the many, many sins?

  64. LGBT people should live however they want to. No one has a right to attack or discriminate against them in housing, jobs, etc. But people who disagree with it on religious grounds should not be persecuted for it. The argument goes both ways. LGBT has chosen to say it is right, while Christianity is wrong. Why can’t Christianity say it is right, while LGBT is wrong? What makes LGBT’s opinion more important than anyone else’s? They are both opinions based on beliefs. We can’t legislate beliefs, even though the government has chosen to try to do so.

  65. So, you have always been a vocal opponent of World Vision refusing to hire candidates who don’t believe in the biblical doctrine of the Trinity, right?

    Or have you been silent all this time about THAT situation?

    See, pro-gay folks have this little hypocrite thing going. As long as World Vision applies biblical hiring standards in areas that don’t interfere with the rapidly spreading religion of gay marriage, everything is A-Okay.

    But let Christians call on World Vision to apply the very clear Biblical standards that they have already applied for YEARS in the area of marriage and sexuality, (totally clear and visible Bible texts that consistently point in only one direction), and now Christians are suddenly being all being hateful and cruel and yadayada.

    That doesn’t work, Stepheni. Pro-gay folks are being hypocritical on this one.

  66. That’s why I asking what work YOUR belief system is doing. I know what exactly African Christian charities MY church is openly supporting, and I know exactly what heavy work they are doing with the destitute children and mothers.

    So don’t be saying “none of the work”, at least regarding southern Africa, if YOU ain’t in the game helping to root for the team.

  67. Its not your belief I have a problem with, its the implementation of it and the desire to have our laws conform to excuse such acts. I don’t care about beliefs here, I care about the actions taken in response to them. You may think all LGBT people should be put to death by the sword of God himself. That is fine by me. It is not my job to change that. It means nothing unless you are trying to put it into practice.

    “But people who disagree with it on religious grounds should not be persecuted for it. ”

    They are not being persecuted at all. They are just being disappointed that they can’t discriminate against LGBT people. Acts that you just said were wrong. (But not really, since you wanted to excuse them) Persecution is not being denied the right to persecute others. 🙂

    The fact that you lump all of Christendom under the anti-gay banner shows more of a self-serving manner than a real argument. It is not about arguments against Christianity. Its about discriminatory behavior vs. treating people humanely.

    Anyone who makes excuses for discriminatory behavior, or worse asks for laws for the same, is going to be considered wrong in my book. This includes Christians like yourself.

  68. And 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, where Jesus actually saves, cleanses, frees and delivers some of the ancient Corinthians from a variety of sins, INCLUDING homosexual behavior.

    It is totally unbelievable that World Vision would dump key Bible texts like this, it’s totally unbelievable that they would turn their backs on the power of Jesus Christ like this, while using that same Bible everyday, that same faith in Jesus Christ everyday, to refuse hiring any non-Trinitarians onto their staff.

    Sorry if the atheists wanna get mad about Christians refusing to support the mess, but there ARE other Christian charities out there, and THEY are not folding up and surrendering to ANY gay pressure groups, secular or religious.

    You atheists and gay-marriagers please go support whatever relief groups you wanna support. Start today.

  69. Don’t just say “I would take her.” Get on out there and make your pledge to World Vision right now. Show your support for World Vision’s evil decision with your MONEY, not your talk.

    Me, I’ll do the same — but only with Christian charities that still believe the Bible.

  70. Don’t worry Eric, they will get sponsored through another organization. World Vision spent wayyyy too much money on advertising anyway. There are organizations that control their overhead a lot better which gets more of your donation dollar where it’s needed.

  71. Cute answer. Gotta love these cute folks who don’t believe the Bible, yet want to talk about what Christians should or should not be doing in response to that same Bible.

  72. Exactly. In fact that’s already happened. NBCNews placed a nice big photo of two women kissing, directly above their headline announcing World Vision’s decision to recognize gay marriage. This evil decision IS being seen and interpreted across the nation as a backdoor endorsement of gay marriage

  73. The big lists of atheist charities:

    Just because you like to think atheists are all evil and self-centered, doesn’t make it so. Your belief system so far is about turning people away and denying efforts and money to charity rather than extending it. All that talk of kicking people out of various denominations who do not ascribe to your views. Finger pointing rather than open arms.

  74. For those of you sticking to your bible based beliefs…… “The whole world will hate you because of me”. Rejoice and be glad……for great is your reward. There is some real persecution going on in here…..lot of…”you Christians” and “haters”. Good for all of you for your stance!!

  75. Yes Marian…….very sad. I personally do not give opinions. I simply go to the life instruction manual and see what it says…….and it is pretty clear on the subject.

  76. Thanks a lot Justin for your reply. I was wondering if there’s another possibility that I can sponsor this boys through another charity organization that has the Biblical beliefs.

  77. Real persecution in this thread? Seriously? Where?

    Also, I might have skimmed, but where has anyone called others out as “haters”? (Your quoted word here)

  78. Psstt….

    “I wasn’t aware that the World hated World Vision. But Christians now hate World Vision. Interesting” – Jon Trouten

  79. I don’t see any Christians attacking each other……diverting money is not an attack…..its just diverting money. I am also not judging anyone. That is to place one’s self in God’s place. But again; he is quite clear on this subject. What would you have Christians do? Ignore what he says. Picking and choosing parts of the bible is not being a real Christian. Its not authentic.

  80. It’s not that we hate World Vision.You got that wrong. I was really happy and blessed when I first heard of them and their charitable actions. We just hate the fact that they decide to allow gay marriage which is totally against Biblical teachings,

  81. That’s an example of persecution? My, the bar has been lowered quite a lot over the years…

  82. Right, because if they don’t follow your beliefs exactly, they are not really Christians anyway. That’s usually how the argument goes.

    Never mind that the people at World Vision and denominations of people who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior may believe differently. Its not Christians attacking an overtly Christian charity for doctrinal reasons at all. Riiight.

    “What would you have Christians do?”

    Its all a matter of what you find more important. Starving children or whether an organization treats its employees in a certain way. You have a right to decide that taking money away from the children they support is more Biblical. You also have a right to be criticized for it.

  83. What IS your faith, Jon? Atheism? Gay Marriage? Spongism?

    Where, honestly, are you at these days?

  84. Marian, I am looking into Samaritan’s purse……still researching. But there are several bible based charities out there that do the same thing.

  85. “Anyone who makes excuses for discriminatory behavior, or worse asks for laws for the same, is going to be considered wrong in my book. This includes Christians like yourself.”

    I am not advocating discriminatory behavior. I don’t think anyone should be denied a job, an apartment, a house, visitation rights at a hospital, etc. because they are LGBT. What I am saying is that I should have the right to disagree with that decision. I don’t drink alcohol, but I’m not saying that others shouldn’t be allowed to either. It is their choice to do so, but I shouldn’t be forced to support it through social pressure or government action. WV is making a political choice here and rightly getting criticized for it. The choice they made to put the “marriage” definition in writing was theirs, just as the choice to change it was also. Smarter people would have just never had it in there in the first place. This just shows it pandered to Christians, have changed its stance, and now pander to another group. It is caving to social pressure in both cases, sadly probably to gain money. Now its money will come less from one group and more from another. And in this free country, they can do that. But I am not discriminating because I don’t share the WV view. I am excercising my right to follow my beliefs as written in the Bible, still protected by the Constitution, however thinly now.

  86. Nonsense. There is no “choice” whatsover being demanded. World Vision is far from the only option for helping people abroad.

    What in the world do you think qualifies you to judge whether anyone is “lifting a finger” for others or not? As for being “good,” we already know from the gospels that none of us is good, so it’s hardly worth much discussion.

  87. ” What I am saying is that I should have the right to disagree with that decision.”

    Who is stopping you?

    The only thing you have to deal with is the social ramifications of such things. Whether its considered OK to say it in polite society. That has more to do with the company you keep than anything else.

    “This just shows it pandered to Christians, have changed its stance, and now pander to another group.”

    Or their definition of Christian is far more expansive than your own.

    There seems to be this axiomatic belief that being Christian means automatically anti-gay. This is simply wishful thinking on behalf of the fundamentalists. There are many many denominations and people who are objectively considered Christian who would not agree.

    “I don’t drink alcohol, but I’m not saying that others shouldn’t be allowed to either.”

    Unfortunately that live and let live attitude is in very short supply by many calling themselves Christian.

    Many feel it is their god given right to deny others things based on their religious beliefs. That being self-righteous means they have a right to make decisions for others. Personally I don’t care what kind of moral high horse someone stands on, there are some decisions that are personal. That people don’t have to answer to others for.

  88. I’m a Christian. I’ve never said differently on these boards.

  89. The anti homosexual sex stance is NOT just OT it is very NT too but many people like to interpret the bible to satisfy their own needs.

  90. Because it is only this sin for which people pride themselves in their unrighteousness. There is NO Fornicators Pride parade.

  91. AMEN! And for every anti gay Christian out there he pulls their support there will be other loving Bible believing Christians who will start to support World Vision based on this decision

  92. Its NOT cruel to tell something they may be going to hell. It could be the most loving thing they do to save a soul from damnation. Furthermore, being opposed to homosexual sex or homosexual adoption does not necessarily have anything to do with hate. Caring about the rights of children to have a mother AND a father is NOT hateful!

  93. No, its an example of calling others out as haters, which you said was not happening on this thread after doing it quite overtly yourself.

  94. If anything is hateful, its your rude and infantile generalizations.

  95. Two people of the same sex can never make a marriage.

  96. Indeed. I heard an atheist make that same argument once…why weren’t his Christian friends and family trying harder to win him over if they truly believed he was hell-bound?

  97. Give me country full of imperfect and even hypocritical Christians over one of atheists ANY day! Your silly little list doesnt even begin to match the evil and horror perpetrated by atheistic regimes throughout history! The Inquisition is a tea party compared to impacts of atheistic regimes, including the atrocities of the French Revolution! Dont try to paint Christianity itself with the brush of sinful Christians unless youre willing to be painted with the same brush as Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, and thats just the 20th Century!

  98. Why assume that people who wont give to WV now wont continue to give to other organizations in its place. WV is not the only organization doing the work it does?? That is such an ignorant and biased statement.

  99. Oh, but you haven’t heard the latest in atheist apologetics. You see, when the religious commit atrocities, it’s because they’re religious. When atheists commit atrocities, it’s because they’re being religious too. Don’t you see what perfect sense that makes? No? That’s OK, nobody else does either.

  100. I haven’t been a World Vision fan for a long time, as I’ve felt that they’ve been poor stewards of the funds people have given. They are a charity with one of the higher admin rates & a lower percentage of your $$ going to the needy. This latest news just takes the cake. I prefer to give my shekels to a biblically based organization. With this latest direction, WV is no different than any other secular charity out there. You have to do your homework. Just because an organization beats the religious drum doesn’t mean they believe it!

  101. So he can say that the World hated World Vision, but I can’t extend that to include people who’ve dropped that agency like a hot potato? Trying to follow the logic…

  102. That said, I never called anyone a hater. I suggested that people hated something. I hate onions. Does that make he a hater?

  103. Mickey, I am glad you are being insulted here. There is nothing more loathsome than the doublespeak of religious inspired hypocrites. Those who profess that their religion is loving of humanity, but whose actions bespeak none of that.

    You will know a Christian by their deeds. That’s the saying, right. The reactions here tell me all I need to know about what Christians are really like. Its not pretty. Have fun turning on each other.

  104. That’s what Herod and Herodias said…but even John’s head on a platter didn’t make it so.

  105. Replacing irrational religious belief with irrational worship of the state. Makes perfect sense. That is if you want to be honest and not re-use canned arguments. But where is the fun in that?

    In this day and age, the danger to our democratic way of life is not coming from atheists. Its coming from people like yourself. Fundamentalists. It wasn’t atheists who tried to forcibly rezone my city using jumbo jet-liners. We haven’t been fighting wars for the last 13 years against atheists. It is not atheists who are opposing civil liberties in this country.

    Militant atheists are just annoyances. Militant fundamentalists are trying to kill me and my way of life.

  106. I totally posted this under the wrong post! I meant this for Carrot.
    so, jamie…… according to the Bible, you are supposed to treat your slaves well…. Do you?

  107. Treat your slaves well, Justin.

    And the point of all this talk of slavery, is that slavery is biblical, but NOT something ANY of us would think is right. Things have changed, and slavery was a cultural thing of the time.

    Being a Christian and being pleased when people are being treated in a just manner isn’t mutually exclusive.
    There are gay christians, regardless of how much part of the Body wants to reject them.

    “if you continue to bite and devour one another”
    And if you think pulling support from a charity because they did something you don’t agree with is biting and devouring, then YOU are the one being deceived by the deceiver and going along with the world view of “us first”.

  108. Don’t judge all of us based on the extreme elements of fundamentals. Some of us actually behave like Jesus would.

  109. What kind of fruit will be produced by this decision? What love? Faith? Just for a moment, let go of the mindset “gay is anti-christ” and honestly ask yourself if you are having a godly response.

  110. -Two people of the same sex can never make a marriage. – Frank
    -And yet our marriage exists. – Jon Trouten

    Ok Jon……I get it. From the above I think I can assume this is close to home for you. Probably more so then the rest of us.

    You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22

    But what can I say?? It says… what it says Jon. I’m sorry. I truly mean that. I don’t make the rules.

  111. No, they are refusing to consider the two the same. There are christian, married, commited to ONE person to live a life for Jesus who are gay. THAT is what World Vision is acknowleding…..

  112. Honestly Michael; and which one is that? Find any not for profit that beats 80% to the field.

  113. It may not be cruel, but it is hurtful because it implies judgment. Not your god’s judgment, but yours. Why? Because you can’t possibly know what your god’s judgment would be, so your words cannot but echo your own prejudices.

    As for the rest, being opposed to homosexual sex is just silly. What consenting adults do with and to each other is none of your business. On the other hand, being opposed to homosexual adoption is something else entirely. The scientific consensus to date is that there is no appreciable difference in outcomes between gay vs. straight parents (posturing by the FRC notwithstanding), so why on earth would someone deliberately block access to a pool of able & willing parents?

  114. well….. at least someone threw in the ‘adam and steve’ reference…. I was beginning to think that the pharisees were at least getting smarter…

  115. Maybe that’s because they’re not treated like second class citizens of the human race…. or Church….

  116. YOU are the one letting down this girl….. Give me her name and I will support her, since you care more about your theology than a needy child!


  117. And the NT also tells christians to treat their slaves well….. funny how nobody has an answer to this….

    Unless you think we should still own people? Cause the Bible says it’s okay??

  118. Don’t be mean to your slaves….. the Bible says to treat them well!

  119. Listen…… just because the cross is an offense, doesn’t mean you have to be offensive.

    And think about this…. the “sinners” loved Jesus…. the “fundies” of the time (Pharisees if you need that spelled out) are the ones that hated Him.

  120. Crusades, Slavery, Racism, just to name a couple of atrocities done in the name of the Lord.

  121. I don’t. But it would be nice if you guys spoke up more often. 🙂

  122. Forgive me for posting in jest. But I’m not getting into a Biblical debate here in the comments section of this new article. Nor am I going to seriously justify my faith here.

    Hence the quips…

  123. It only makes sense to the dishonest, and it is rather funny coming from someone who just got done singing a paean to “rule of law” and talking about constitutionality, in the most reverential terms possible, like it’s something that nine gods in black robes pronounce from on high to the unwashed rabble, instead of something that blows this way and that according to the politics of whoever appointed them. You’re actually a great example of how the removal of transcendent values leaves little else but whatever guiding standard can be offered by the state.

    Funny how western atheists had no problem with the Soviets’ so-called worship of the state, until everyone saw exactly what kind of morass it led to.

  124. I already changed to Compassion. Bye World Vision~

  125. Convoy of Hope is a great relief organization operating all over the world. 90% of their contributions goes directly to relief. You can view their financials on their website at

  126. Mickey, I have heard other anti-gay people make similar comments about the PRIDE Parade. The parade is for the LGBT community to show solidarity and perseverance after defeats and to celebrate victories. It also gives gay youth hope if they are enduring parental bigotry or peer bullying. It shows them that there are people like themselves and that there is nothing to be ashamed of.
    If you find this offensive, you are not required to attend. That is why I do not attend revivals or watch televangelists.l

  127. Yes, like the people that wrote the gospels to make the life of Jesus “fulfill prophesy” to promote Christianity? Or the people that chose which stories would be part of the bible and which ones to leave out? Or the people that decide to be equal to god and judge their fellow man and deny him service instead of follow the TEACHINGS of Jesus?
    All Christians pick and choose because it is impossible to follow ALL of the bible’s commands and rules as many of them are contradictory.

  128. “This is also not about compromising the authority of Scripture,” Stearns told CT. “People can say, ‘Scripture is very clear on this issue,’ and my answer is, ‘Well, ask all the theologians and denominations that disagree with that statement.’

    So God doesn’t understand what He wrote and we need theologians and denominations to explain what God meant.

  129. So carrotcakeman, what is your definition of a Christian? What is required? Is it simply calling yourself one? Do you believe there is one God? Do you believe there is more than one way to heaven or to God? Do you believe a Christian is to love others as a priority above loving God? Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? Do you believe He came to earth and was born of a virgin? Do you believe that while He lived on earth He was not only man but God? Did He life a sinless life? Did He die on the cross for the sins of all men? And on the third day was raised and sits at the right hand of the Father today? When Jesus says in John 14:6 “I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life and NO ONE comes to The Father except by me.” Do you believe Him? When He also says that I have not cone to bring peace but to divide, do you believe Him? When He says “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” do you believe Him? When he says the way to destruction is WIDE but the way to eternity is narrow, do you believe Him? When He said I have not come to eliminate the law but to fulfill it do you believe Him? When He says if you love ME you will obey MY commandments, do you believe Him? Do you believe the Bible is the Inerrant Word of God? If you do claim to believe the above then what do you say about the below passage from God’s Word?

    Ephesians 5:3-17
    But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.

    For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

    Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

    Therefore do not become partners with them;

    for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

    Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

    Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

    For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light.

    Therefore it says, “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

    Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil.

    Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Ephesians 5:3-17 ESV)

    So if you do not believe the above perhaps the real problem is you worship a different god than The God that those who oppose what this Organization has done worships? Hum…

    You see Jesus said the Greatest Commandment is to worship The Lord God with ALL our heart, mind and strength! That is the first and greatest commandment. So my allegiance has to be to Him first! What I can’t do is to go against His Word!

    It’s not that those who choose the real God, the God of the Bible, don’t love others, it’s just we love Him first and because we Love a Him so much we simply have to be obedient to Him and His Word.

    Now if you do believe in Him and just haven’t gotten to know Him I challenge you to take the time to read His Word and really get to know the God you claim, since you call yourself a christian….

  130. Mickey, you might want to read a history book. Hitler was a self proclaimed Christian. He was raised in the church and quoted scripture to justify the atrocities he ordered. Many Catholic bishops hid Nazi criminals after the war! The others were just opportunists and/or mad men. What those men did was not because they were atheists. No one has ever killed another person because of atheism. Religion on the other hand has been the direct cause of much spilled blood. And for what? Because one god myth is better than the other? Because God wanted men to burn witches? Because God wanted them to kill the abortion doctor?
    Mickey, IF there is a god, and that god is the god of the bible, how do you know that he wants you to discriminate against gay people?

  131. Maybe atheists say that because the people that commit the atrocities proudly claim responsibility. For sure Hitler was a self identifying Christian who prayed and quoted scripture. Some of the others mentioned that religion was bad, or said nothing but banned religion. I don’t recall them ever saying they had no belief in a god. However, when religious people commit murder, genocide, discrimination, bigotry, they directly point to their faith.

  132. I don’t know “her” name, Doc, like I said. But I have already made a donation and a commitment to continue to do so because of this decision.
    It is not an evil decision. And how do you know that Jesus wants you to stop supporting WV? His teachings indicate otherwise.

  133. So. It is not your responsibility to pass judgment on other people. You were helping those little children, and according to you, making a connection with them. I am an atheist because I do not believe there is evidence for a god, however, there was, indeed a man Jesus and he had some revolutionary teachings for his time. He was pretty clear about treating others as you would want to be treated. He was pretty clear about he who is without sin cast the first stone. Just because homosexuality is a sin according to the bible, Jesus was pretty clear about passing judgment.

  134. Deerhunter, I disagree with your interpretation. To go against the bible would be for you to lie with a man. It does not say to judge those who do. Jesus says just the opposite. Sinners loved him. Treat others as you want to be treated, love thy neighbor… Where does the bible say make judgements about other people, discriminate against them, deny them service, do not give to charities that treat their employees with respect?

  135. Stepheni t, PLEASE read The Bible! Study it!

    Here below is a verse from Paul, look it up…

    “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?”

    WE ARE TO JUDGE! Who are we to judge? Those that claim Christ as Savior! Those in/of the Church! Not just those who go to the same brick and mortar church we do but anyone who claims that they are Christians! We are to judge their works! Jesus says we will know them by their fruit! This is the same for any organization that claims to be a Christian organization! We are to hold them up to the Scriptures! And judge them for what they stand for! Do they stand for the truth of the scriptures?

    Who are we not to judge? We are not to judge those outside the Church, the lost!

    Here is Paul’s response to sexual sin within the body, the Church!

    1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife.
    2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
    3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.
    4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
    5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.[fn]

    Do you really think it’d be less for someone actively involved or who supports those who are actively involved in a sin GOD calls an abomination? Do you not know that it is repeated stated in the New Testiment that no one involved in this sin will inherit the Kingdom of God?

    Again, PLEASE study God’s Word! It’s not that Christians “hate” those involved in this sin! We don’t!!! We simply CANT, NOR WILL WE support it! We can’t pretend it is ok! Those who approve of this and say they are Christians can’t be worshiping the God of The Bible! They are worshiping a god of their own creation! Serious serious problem here! If you don’t agree with The Bible you are in direct conflict/rebellion with GOD! Not me…. But GOD!

  136. This thread of responses breaks my heart. The bottom line is that we all are on an equal playing field–God does not love any person more than any other person–we are all God’s children. God loves homosexuals, just as much as He loves orphans, just as much as He loves corporate executives, just as much as He loves government officials, just as much as He loves terrorists, just as much as He loves Jews, just as much as He loves Nazis, just as much as He loves Christians, just as much as He loves Mormons , just as much as He loves Buddhists, just as much as He loves people we disagree with, just as much as He loves skeptics, just as much as He loves [fill in the blank], just as much as He loves….ALL people ever born (or unborn)! God loves EVERYONE–no more for any group or individual, and no less for any group or individual. Jesus LOVES all people (also known as sinners, and every single person ever to live on the face of the earth, other than Jesus, was/is a sinner). The Bible is clear about what sin is, but it is also clear that we are not to judge each other–that’s God’s job. God’s #1 command is to love Him and his #2 command is to love others (Matthew 22:34-40). None of us–Christians or atheists or otherwise, have any right to judge the other. Let’s make sure we are loving one another, because love covers a multitude of sins (1 Pet 4:8). Love is not the same as condoning. God’s Word is the ultimate truth, but that doesn’t justify Christians being angry or unloving or judgmental in our responses to others who disbelieve God’s Word. Christians…LOVE others in your responses. God is love. I’m saddened by all of the unloving responses–on both sides. This whole argument is best summed up in James 1:27 (MSG)–“Anyone who sets himself up as ‘religious’ by talking a good game is self-deceived. This kind of religion is hot air and only hot air. Real religion, the kind that passes muster before God the Father, is this: Reach out to the homeless or loveless in their plight, and guard against corruption from the godless world.”
    For those of you who are turned off from God because of Christians, I just want to say this: Please look to the Bible as your reference rather than people. People are wonderful, but can be quite emotional and not consistent;God is infallible. Your eternal destiny is so at stake, that we often times react to your disbelief the same way we would to someone crossing the tracks as a locomotive is coming…we are so desperate to communicate with you that we sometimes result to extreme measures. Again, please don’t look to our emotional reactions…look to the God of the Universe who LOVES you and wants you to be with Him forever!

  137. To answer your question:

    “In John 7:24, Jesus said “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment”. Here we are clearly commanded to judge with righteous judgment.”

    — John Hagenbuch, “The Expository Files”, Oct. 2003

  138. Well, since you’re wanting to abide by Jesus’s teachings, here’s one for you. It’s Matthew 19:4-5, in which Jesus makes clear that God created marriage to be exclusively between a man and a a woman:

    **And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[
    and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?**

    Since World Vision has decided to trash this very clear teaching of Jesus about marriage, and since they have openly betrayed the clear teachings ABOUT Jesus which appear in 1 Cor. 6:9-11, why should I support World Vision?

    As some have pointed out, there are many OTHER Christian charities who also help hungry children and families. And as I mentioned, you can even become a partner with indigenous Christian charities where the workers know best what’s happening with the children and families in their own backyard.

    The indigenous African Christian charities stick with the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, but World Vision doesn’t do that anymore.

    (And let’s be honest: the only reason you’re supporting World Vision now, is because they’ve just caved in and surrendered to the Gay Marriage Cult. I bet you didn’t send them a penny beforehand.)

    Anyway, does that answer your question?

  139. Well, since you go by “what the Bible says”, then 1 Cor 7:21 (Amp) gives the following advice to slaves: “If you are able to gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.”

    And if you go by Paul’s letter to Philemon, (and you are), then deal with this:

    “By ordering Philemon to treat (the slave) Onesimus as a brother (Philem. 16; cf. Eph. 6:9; Col. 4:1), Paul eliminated the abuses of slavery.

    “Marvin Vincent comments, “The principles of the gospel not only curtailed (slavery’s) abuses, but destroyed the thing itself; for it could not exist without its abuses. To destroy its abuses was to destroy it” (Vincent, Philemon, p. 167).” — John MacArthur

    So this same Bible that you are going by, clearly shows God’s intention and strategy by which He destroyed slavery (especially in Britain and America, centuries later) and encouraged all slaves to free themselves.

    So, ummm, any attempt to support World Vision’s gay-marriage mess by using the atheistic “slavery” argument, DOESN’T work.

  140. I’m going to apologize to you in advance for piggybacking off of your post. It was well-written, and a good reminder for those like me who post and debate in this forum. But I would like to offer you and other readers a couple notes.

    First, on the issue of “judging”, here’s something from John Hagenbuch (“The Expository Files”, Oct 2003):

    “Although we must be cautious in our judgments concerning ourselves and others, we cannot ignore our Lord’s commands that instruct us to make judgments. In John 7:24, Jesus said “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” Here we are clearly commanded to judge with righteous judgment.”

    Second, a much-respected Christian scholar, Dr. Michael Brown, has written a brand-new article on the World Vision mess. He’s speaking in love and with thoughtful reflection, and he’s not trying to be “emotional” about things.

    But you’ll also notice that Brown is not mincing any words about the real problem and the real stakes. His evaluation is sharp like a scalpel (ouch!), and yet it’s totally accurate. One can feed the children without betraying the Gospel and the Bible, as World Vision used to do for many years. (But now World Vision has fallen. They have done betrayal.)

    Anyway, Dr. Brown is determined to “judge righteous judgment”, and stand up for the Lord Jesus Christ in this situation. So I’m just going to offer his article.

  141. Jamie — First of all, the CEO is not free to act on his own. They have a Board , and I’m sure lots of consultation occurred before this decision was made — including studying Scripture. Am glad to hear your sponsorship will continue until the child is 18. The change they’ve announced does not change all they do to fight poverty, as Scripture instructs. To withdraw support, as some have threatened to do, will hurt the children and families helped by World Vision much more than anyone in the the organization itself. It is best not to lose track of the blessed work they do all over the world.

  142. Very sad, Jeff, that you would choose to stop supporting an organization helping so many because they choose to accept those who are “different”. Please read carefully the statement by the CEO; it seems you are misinterpreting their intent.

  143. “God’s not unjust, he doesn’t actually exist.” –Stalin

    “Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism” –Lenin

    “Our GOD is none other than the masses of the Chinese people.” — Mao Tse Tung

    As for Hitler, he was a charlatan who claimed Christianity in order to sell his platform to the German people and rally them together against the officially atheist Soviet Union. But the Judeo-Christian west repudiated everything he stood for and those who opposed him are today regarded as heroes rather than traitors. Contrast that with the former Soviet Union, where institutionalized atheism left no transcendent values and therefore every traitor who ever opposed the regime’s agenda for the sake of conscience remains a traitor.

  144. Doc Anthony, in the OT marriage was usually between one man and three women or sometimes 3,000 women. Jesus never spoke about same-sex marriage, he was speaking against polygamy when he made that one comment that got into the NT. If you think the Bible is “absolutely clear” about marriage, you must not have read much of it or else you are not a very critical thinker.

    Run4JC, no criticism of Convoys for Hope, but it is mostly a GIK distribution model, which has very low overhead. You are comparing apples and oranges.

    This is a great move by World Vision, and I am going to sponsor another (third) child as a result.

  145. For Stepheni: I’m trying the best I can to see if there’s a possibility that I can still sponsor this boys, but through another charity organization that has their principles based on the Biblical Teachings. Nobody is perfect, everybody has their mistakes, but in this case the Bible makes it very clear. Ephesians 5:3-17.

  146. Stepheni, it is quite obvious that you do not worship the God of the Bible. The Bible is not contradictory. Those who reject The God of the Bible will NEVER understand the Bible! In order to understand it and see it through The Lord’s eyes you must have Him living within you thru the Holy Spirit! You have to be obedient to Him and His Word! If you are indeed a Christian then rather than make uninformed and uneducated statements on here and others forums use the time to read His Word and ask Him for the wisdom to understand it. Read it thru completely! There are definitely things in the Bible that humanists will simply never understand. The fact that they don’t understand it is meaningless because they simply choose to reject God. They look for reasons not to believe. It is pretty obvious by all of your statements you are fashioning a god out of your own desires rather than the one and only true God, The God of The Bible.

    I do pray that The Lord will open your heart and mind to
    His Word!

  147. Narrow…hum…where have I heard that before? Oh it’s something Jesus said…

    “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

    You see what you espouse is utterly contrary to Jesus! You are saying we should be all inclusive ya da ya da ya da….but Jesus was not inclusive! He plainly says the way to salvation IS NARROW! He says He came to divide! Not bring the world together! Read the scriptures!

  148. I could not agree with you more. Our family will be withdrawing our financial support of what was once a fine Christian organization.

  149. Maybe those people pulling out of WV can start with writing a letter to the children they used to sponsor and explain to them why they won’t be getting the support they needed to survive.

  150. One thing to do is call Christian radio stations like 95.9 the Fish and any others that carry commercials, fundraisers, and endorsements for World Vision and ask that they boycott this organization immediately.

  151. From World Vision’s statement:
    “Denominations disagree on many, many things: on divorce and remarriage, modes of baptism, women in leadership roles in the church, beliefs on evolution, etc.,” “So our practice has always been to defer to the authority and autonomy of local churches and denominational bodies on matters of doctrine that go beyond the Apostles’ Creed and our statement of faith.”
    There are 50 denominations represented at W.V.. If they start letting employees go for this, why not include any of the above reasons? Why not just close the doors and tell the 100,000 children who will die in one week, sorry, sucks for you. But the ‘CHURCH’ needs to shoot each for begin all wrong.

  152. It’s saddening to see how closed minded and idiotic you are. Jesus loved everyone. and you should judge based on an antequated view of the world. get with the times. this has no impact on you. also, READ the article. they are not endorsing it..they are neutral and not getting involved in the debate. go back to first grade and learn to read and learn about compassion and tolerance. american christianity is in trouble because of bigots like you.

    have a great day.

  153. Do your self a favor, write a letter to those children in Mauritania and Ethiopia and explain why the money you send to keep them alive won’t be coming anymore. I am sure they will understand.

  154. Just thinking back to mid-December when conservative Christians were complaining about A&E and “Duck Dynasty” and free speech and everything.

    Now many of those same people are calling for an economic boycott of World Vision for their own speech.

  155. Should you not feel shame over this? You are not supporting an organization, you are supporting people – God’s people. The children of the world are his, and he loves them. To harm the children you’ve committed to support for the decision of an organization is your fault. It is a sin you will answer for – it is not the fault of WorldVision if you disagree with them, and in so doing decide to take it out on a child. How exactly do you convince yourself that the Son of God would behave in this way? “I don’t agree with you, now watch me leave…” God never walks out on his children, so you can not – absolutely can not walk out on his children either. Not if you would call yourself his son.

    Think deeply and pray fervently about what you would do. Don’t make a decision in anger or on a short fuse. I advocate sticking with the commitments you have made to humans in need through WorldVision until they expire. Then, perhaps, reassess your connection to them. But whatever you do, do it out of the love of God for broken and needy people, and not out of fear or hate or some misguided notion of “protection” of the Church from corrupt theology.

    Remember, the whole of the Law and the Prophets (including ALL of whatever you believe the Bible to say about homosexuality and marriage) can be summed up in these two commands: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind. And love your neighbor as yourself.” Remember also that your job is to be the good Samaritan, a neighbor to all those in need – it is not, as the young ruler in the Gospel did, to try and identify a limited notion of who your neighbor might be and then only love those people.

  156. Larry, it’s obvious you are only looking to pick fights.

    All, to continue to converse with Larry, is it not castings pearls before swine?

    The day you meet Jesus will be a sad day for you as things stand right now. Every knee shall bow and acknowledge Jesus as Lord, and for you if you die in your non belief then will be cast into hell…

  157. Looks like you can all come back. World Vision is anti-gay family again! They called a do-over today! *shakes head*

  158. The greatest sign of spiritual maturity is the time in between the sin and the repentance. Well done WV!

  159. Deerhunter, for some reason I could not reply to your response to me, so, I am posting here.
    I have read the Bible more than once, and parts of the bible multiple times. I have also taken several classes and have read several books on the Bible. I am very familiar with Paul, who by the way, never claimed to hear Jesus speak. I am not surprised you chose Paul to quote because it supported your view. You, however, did not respond to the parts of the bible I mentioned in my post. Why didn’t you choose Matthew and Luke: “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive not, and you will not be forgiven…” “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?” This is the problem with religion. Everyone picks and chooses to suit their own needs, instead of using common sense and compassion, fairness and empathy.

  160. It is much better than politely discussing things through dishonest euphemisms, talking points and nonsense arguments. Better to keep things out in the open. If you don’t want to talk to me, feel free not to.

    From what I see, Christian love seems to entail making impoverished children suffer in order to make petty hateful points concerning labor relations. It also means threatening people with vague spiritual threats and being disagreeably passive-aggressive towards others.

    If accepting Christ means associating with such self-righteous nabobs, you can keep it. It has no value to me.

    Feel free to pray for my eternal soul.

  161. It is quite obvious that you are a petty hateful person who must hide behind religious blathering. Someone far too cowardly in their contempt and loathing of fellow people to admit to it openly. One who must make excuses by pretending its somehow Biblical.

    I can feel the Christian love coming from your posts. So compassionate and understanding. Oh wait. Nope. Just spewing bile and insults on your part.

  162. Stepheni, rather than me providing the answer, because you are unwilling to consider my response I am providing the answer of a theologian who perhaps you will respect.

    Here is his answer to your questions, and hopefully this will provide you with a better understanding. I do pray that this will touch a heart willing to “hear” what is presented without bias. May The Lord bless you as you read the info below.

    A. Judgment and discernment.
    1. (1-2) A summary statement on passing judgment upon others.
    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.”
    a. Judge not, that you be not judged: Here Jesus moved to another idea in the Sermon on the Mount. He had primarily dealt with themes connected with the interior spiritual life (attitudes in giving, prayer, fasting, materialism, and anxiety over material things). Now He touches on an important theme related to the way we think of and treat others.
    i. We remember that Jesus called for a righteousness that was greater than that of the scribes and Pharisees (Matthew 5:20). In the way some people think, the way to make one’s self more righteous is to be more judgmental of others. Jesus here rebuked that kind of thinking.
    b. Judge not, that you be not judged: With this command Jesus warned against passing judgment upon others, because when we do so we will be judged in a similar manner.
    i. Among those who seem to know nothing of the Bible, this is the verse that seems to be most popular. Yet most the people who quote this verse don’t understand what Jesus said. They seem to think (or hope) that Jesus commanded a universal acceptance of any lifestyle or teaching.
    ii. Just a little later in this same sermon (Matthew 7:15-16), Jesus commanded us to know ourselves and others by the fruit of their life, and some sort of assessment is necessary for that. The Christian is called to show unconditional love. But the Christian is not called to unconditional approval. We really can love people who do things that should not be approved of.
    iii. So while this does not prohibit examining the lives of others, it certainly prohibits doing in the spirit it is often done. An example of unjust judgment was the disciples’ condemnation of the woman who came to anoint the feet of Jesus with oil (Matthew 26:6-13). They thought she was wasting something; Jesus said she had done a good work that would always be remembered. They had a rash, harsh, unjust judgment.
    – We break this command when we think the worst of others.
    – We break this command when we only speak to others of their faults.
    – We break this command when we judge an entire life only by its worst moments.
    – We break this command when we judge the hidden motives of others.
    – We break this command when we judge others without considering ourselves in their same circumstances.
    – We break this command when we judge others without being mindful that we ourselves will be judged.
    c. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged: Jesus did not prohibit the judgment of others. He only requires that our judgment be completely fair, and that we only judge others by a standard we would also like to be judged by.
    i. When our judgment in regard to others is wrong, it is often not because we judge according to a standard but because we are hypocritical in the application of that standard – we ignore the standard in our own life. It is common to judge others by one standard and ourselves by another standard – being far more generous to ourselves than others.
    d. With the measure you use, it will be measured back to you: This is the principle upon which Jesus built the command, “Judge not, that you be not judged.” God will measure unto us according to the same measure we use for others. This is a powerful motivation for us to be generous with love, forgiveness, and goodness to others. If we want more of those things from God, we should give more of them to others.
    i. According to the teaching of some rabbis in Jesus’ time, God had two measures that He used to judge people. One was a measure of justice and the other was a measure of mercy. Which ever measure you want God to use with you, you should use that same measure with others.
    ii. We should only judge another’s behavior when we are mindful of the fact that we ourselves will be judged, and we should consider how we would want to be judged.
    2. (3-5) An illustration of Jesus’ principle regarding judging.
    “And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
    a. Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? The figures of a speck and a plank are real figures, yet used humorously. Jesus shows how we are generally far more tolerant to our own sin than we are to the sin of others.
    i. Though there might be a literal speck in one’s eye, there obviously would not be a literal plank or board in an eye. Jesus used these exaggerated, humorous pictures to make His message easier to understand and more memorable.
    ii. It is a humorous picture: A man with a board in his eye trying to help a friend remove a speck from the friend’s eye. You can’t think of the picture without smiling and being amused by it.
    iii. An example of looking for a speck in the eye of another while ignoring the plank in one’s own is when the religious leaders brought the woman taken in adultery to Jesus. She had certainly sinned; but their sin was much worse and Jesus exposed it as such with the statement, He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first (John 8:7).
    b. Look, a plank is in your own eye: Jesus indicates that the one with the plank in hisown eye would not immediately be aware of it. He is blind to his obvious fault. It is the attempt to correct the fault of someone else when we ourselves have the same (or greater fault) that earns the accusation, “Hypocrite!”
    i. “Jesus is gentle, but he calls that man a ‘hypocrite’ who fusses about small things in others, and pays no attention to great matters at home in his own person.” (Spurgeon)
    ii. Our hypocrisy in these matters is almost always more evident to others than to ourselves. We may find a way to ignore the plank in our own eye, but others notice it immediately. A good example of this kind of hypocrisy was David’s reaction to Nathan’s story about a man who unjustly stole and killed another man’s lamb. David quickly condemned the man, but was blind to his own sin, which was much greater (2 Samuel 12).
    c. First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye: Jesus didn’t say that it was wrong for us to help our brother with the speck in his eye. It is a good thing to help your brother with his speck, but not before dealing with the plank in your own eye.
    3. (6) Balancing love with discernment.
    “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.”
    a. Do not give what is holy to the dogs: After He warned us against judgmental attitudes and self-blind criticism, Jesus here reminded us that He did not mean to imply that the people of His Kingdom suspend all discernment. They must discern that there are some good, precious things that should not be given to those who will receive them with contempt.
    i. We might say that Jesus means, “Don’t be judgmental, but don’t throw out all discernment either.”
    ii. The dogs and swine here are often understood as those who are hostile to the Kingdom of God and the message that announces it. Our love for others must not blind us to their hardened rejection of the good news of the kingdom.
    iii. Yet we may also see this in the context of the previous words against hypocrites. It may be that in Jesus’ mind, the dogs and swine represent hypocritical, judgmental believers. These sinning hypocrites should not be offered the pearls that belong to the community of the saints.
    iv. “The Didache, or, to give it its full name, The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, which dates back to a.d. 100 and which is the first service order book of the Christian Church, lays it down: “Let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist except those baptized into the name of the Lord; for as regards this, the Lord has said, ‘Give not that which is holy unto dogs.'” (Barclay)
    v. Jesus also spoke in the context of correcting another brother or sister. Godly correction is a pearl (though it may sting for a moment) that must not be cast before swine (those who are determined not to receive it).

  163. Stepheni,

    Here is what the scriptures say….the problem with the discussion now is the focal point is on only homosexuals but as you read below it is not limited to just homosexuals.

    9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?1 Do not be deceived:2 Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers3 nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders4
    10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers5 will inherit the kingdom of God.
    11 And that is what some of you were.6 But you were washed,7 you were sanctified,8 you were justified9 in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    I’m not discriminating against gays as you claim. I have gay friends and I treat them as friends but they also know I do not support their lifestyles. I do not “judge” them in a manner that is so often presented here. I love them! I hope they will accept Jesus and that thru Him change their lifestyle/sin decision. I’ve had one of these friends actually do just that! We were friends before and friends after. This person told me they were born that way! I explained that I loved them and ask them if they truly believed the Bible is the Word of God and they said they did. I just asked them to read what it says in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Romans, Corinthians etc. after about three months this person came to me and began crying and told me that they were not created homosexual but had been repeatedly molested as a child and hated men. It took time but with counseling etc this person was able to overcome this and not only that but the partner also came to know Jesus! They both got of that lifestyle and honored The Lord with their lives!

    But part of the issue we are dealing with here is about corporate sin and not the sin of the individual. In our country we have the right to vote and make a difference. As a Christian I simply can not stand by and support what the Bible clearly condemns! We have to stand against this. The reason this has become a hot button in our society is because the homosexual agenda that has taken root. They continue to push the homosexual agenda and go on the attack when anyone stands against their sinful behavior and agenda. Read what the Bible says about their sin….God calls it an abomination….so what again do you call it? A lifestyle decision? So rather than choose God you reject God. At the end of the day this is what it all comes down to….we each get to make a decision as to whether we will accept Him as our Savior or reject Him. You can not have it both ways. The scripture is pretty clear on this. So if you choose to reject Him and go to hell, although He loves you and wants you to choose Him, He will let you do so.

  164. I sincerely sympathize with my first employer on this issue.I know it was genuine mistake.
    I pray that the organization regain the trust of its benevolent donors and sponsors!
    Leaders always admit mistakes and I like the manner in which the CEO has admitted it.
    God help the organization out!

  165. This is only your little opinion which means very little in the vast scheme of human involvement.

  166. Oh yes, we can all choose to go to hell!

  167. You pick out one scripture and hang on to that. It is like taking a novel and choosing one sentence in the middle of it and thinking you understand what it is all about. Sad.

  168. Both of you are full of it. You want to get involved. Get a passport and go on a missionary trip. Get involved. Do something! Sending a few dollars is nothing.

  169. Who said someone hated anyone? People in the USA are so stupid and ignorant. If you don’t agree with something, then you hate it. Well, I guess all parents who have been challenged by their children’s behavior HATE THEM.

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