Andrew Goldkuhle of Goldkuhle Studios in Hanover, Va., inspects and replaces stained glass images of the Confederate battle flag at Washington National Cathedral. Photo courtesy of Danielle Thomas / Washington National Cathedral

Confederate flag images quietly removed from National Cathedral

Andrew Goldkuhle of Goldkuhle Studios in Hanover, Va., inspects and replaces stained glass images of the Confederate battle flag at Washington National Cathedral. Photo courtesy of Danielle Thomas / Washington National Cathedral

Andrew Goldkuhle of Goldkuhle Studios in Hanover, Va., inspects and replaces stained glass images of the Confederate battle flag at Washington National Cathedral. Photo courtesy of Danielle Thomas / Washington National Cathedral

 This image is available for web and print publication. For questions, contact Sally Morrow.

WASHINGTON (RNS) Washington National Cathedral has quietly replaced its controversial panes of stained glass bearing the Confederate flag.

The two panes bearing the image of the flag were replaced last month with red and blue panes to match surrounding glass, said Kevin Eckstrom, chief communications officer for the cathedral. Adjoining panes honoring Confederate generals remain in place but “their long-term future is really very much up in the air,” he said.

Eckstrom said Wednesday (Sept. 28) that he learned of the change in the windows the day it occurred -- Aug. 26 -- when an architect met with members of a cathedral committee who quickly decided on the specific replacement glass.

“The decision was made, kind of on the fly, that they were happy with the replacement and just go ahead and put them in,” he said. “It wasn’t really a decision to do it under the cover of darkness. It was more the people were there on-site and they decided to just go ahead and make it happen.”

But Eckstrom acknowledged that cathedral officials chose not to make a public announcement after the replacement occurred.

“They decided, rather than further exacerbate tensions around the flag in the windows, to just do it and get it done and move on to the next phase,” Eckstrom said. “They didn’t want the flags themselves to become a distraction from the larger conversation that they’re having around race, which in the cathedral’s mind is much more important than the windows.”

RELATED: National Cathedral to remove Confederate flag images

There currently is no sign near the windows explaining the change but one is likely in the future, he said.

Since the cathedral announced in June that it would replace the flag depictions, it has begun a series of events focused on racial justice, including one on the role of the white church and another about black spirituals.

It has planned an Oct. 26 event on the history and context of the Confederate flag, including discussion of the removal of the panes and the current retention of the overall windows honoring Confederate Generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. The side-by-side windows were dedicated in 1953.


  1. In the House of the Lord, the Ten Commandments must be obeyed. At least, I thought this was the case… Removing the Confederate image because it stands for nothing but racism, is a lie. Either, it is a lack of adequade American history knowledge, or it is the intentional bending of history in the shape the current society likes to see it. The result remains the same.
    Preaching about only one aspect of the War between the States while silencing all the other aspects provides the common American who does not explicitely follows a higher historical education with a completely distorted view on a major historic event of our country. It causes unrighteous damage to the Southern reputation and is therefor equal to lying.
    So if this work here is done with complete history knowledge by people who are aware of the complete list of all developments, places, people, dates, major happenings and evolutions of the War between the States, learned from proper sources, written by proper -graduated- historians (which means a few levels beyond what is displayed on wiki or other sources influenced by liberal propaganda and/or on which everybody- with or without history graduate- can freely write down any bullshit they like to post), it could be considered as bearing false witness, for they commit treason against honest historic knowledge in exchange for the thrill of getting attention by the mob and/or money provided by our current liberal government.
    Bearing false witness against a person, or a community (the South here) happens to be a violation of the 9th Commandment: “Thou shallt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.”.
    What happened to our world that even our greatest values, the very words of the Good Lord himself, get trampled under foot.
    If the leaders in charge here don’t feel ashamed about this, I sure do so in their place.
    Good for them our God forgives us our sins.
    Greetings from El Paso!

  2. The church will pay for accepting the sin of political correctness and the regressive fascism of the Washington Establishment.

  3. National (Except for the South) Cathedral.

    Your day is coming, Sam, and when the chickens come home to roost, Dixie is gonna sit and laugh…

  4. It was just a matter of time before one of you neo-confederate bozos would show up on this topic.

    “Removing the Confederate image because it stands for nothing but racism, is a lie. ”

    And the swastika has a long history as a hindu religious symbol as well. But modern associations make that fact an irrelevancy. But it is associated with racism here and now. The KKK sported it as as their symbol for quite some time going to the present day.

    “Southern reputation” is a catchword for dishonest revisionist nonsense which either:
    1. Makes excuses for slavery
    2. Claims slavery was and still is a good thing
    3. Ignores the fact that slavery WAS the defining feature of the Confederacy

    You closet racist wannabes had your run in portraying the Confederacy as a noble venture for about a century after the Civil War. Now more honest appraisals are common.

  5. Its political correctness when a reactionary says something offensive, but they get the fainting couches out when called a “deplorable” by a liberal.

  6. They already tried that. They dressed up in bedsheets and called each other cyclops and wizard. They are a joke now too. So that makes “Dixie” losers twice over.

  7. Or falsely labeled as “racist” by regressive mentalities with no honor or sense of Christian character.

  8. There was no honor in glorifying keeping human beings as chattel property nor supporting notions of white supremacy embodied by the Confederate flag.

    But thank you for making absolutely clear this nonsense is very much in line with Christian expressions of extremism. Many apologists try to pretend your view are not part of the Christian faith. It’s nice you set that right.

  9. It’s the flag of racists and failed traitors. You are full of it. Your website is BS. Celebrating “Southern heritage” without any historical context is like celebrating German heritage by waving a Nazi flag. The confederacy stood for race based slavery. It defined it’s existence. You can’t polish that turd no matter how you try.

  10. Where are you from? New York, Delaware, Connecticut, Rhode Island or Massachusetts? If so, you should lose your flag or have to change your state name b/c your ancestors from those states were responsible for the slave trade business. Did you attend an Ivy League School? Change the name of Brown University that was named after a slave trader. I grew up with this symbol that was not and still is not racist. It takes courage to support our heritage when there are ignorant people attacking those who fought defending their homeland. Also, it takes time and money to support this endeavor. I saw a pic of a Confederate soldier shot dead in a trench. He was only 14. He deserves to be remembered with honor and respect and not spit on his grave.

  11. Since you know everything, I am sure that you know that African tribal leaders sold their own into slavery. So, it was not white supremacy. Also, the slave owner who’s responsible for lifetime slavery was Anthony Johnson, an African. He refused to free his indentured servant, John Casor, as originally planned. He escaped to work for a white man, Robert Parker. Johnson took Parker to court in 1654. The court awarded Johnson lifetime servitude of Casor. There were many African slave owners. Google Nicolas Augustin Metoyer of Louisiana whose family at one time owned over 200 slaves.

  12. Now you want to gloss over the fact that the Confederacy raison d’etre was slavery and defense of it. The Confederates were traitors to the country. The revisionists had a century long run of pretending that their cause was noble and those who fought for it were worthy of praise. Well, now that we are past that nonsense. Gone with the Wind is just that, gone. Deal with it. I have no compelling reason to whitewash what they did and what they did it for.

    “there are ignorant people attacking those who fought defending their homeland.”

    So next we will praise Nazis, kamikazes, and the Taliban. They were defending their homeland as well and put teenagers and children in the front lines as well. They fought for not only the losing side, but the wrong side as well.

  13. And that sort of thing mitigates or excuses centuries of slavery and those who defended it, even to the point of insurrection? Nope. Nor have you refuted or disputed a word I said. You want to support racist imagery, so be it. Do it on your own dime. Our government doesn’t have to. It spent manpower, money and materiel to put the Confederacy in the ground and everything it stood for. You want to refight the Civil War? Tough luck. You want respect for slavers, their lackeys and white supremacists, tough luck on that too.

    Here is the kind of stuff we can all do without

    Mary Stevens
    No, I suggest that an area near Kansas/Nebraska be cordoned off for a new state for African Americans. They can have their own state, build their churches, schools, businesses. I am willing to chip in for a Mule.

  14. ZZZZ.
    I’m sorry, but do you have anything other than the same sad and tired talking points to add to the conversation? No? Pity.

  15. Then there is no honor in glorifying the men of the American Revolution who fought for the independence of colonies many of which practiced chattel slavery, or who later supported a constitution that viewed black Americans as 3/5ths of a person either. Believe me when I say that the US flag has a much longer history of white supremacy than the Confederate flag ever could…and even the most honest of your kind admit to this.

    Where we differ is that we raise the parts that are good and honorable while not forgetting the bad but not allowing the bad to define either banner than we love respectively.

    But let’s be honest here, for you it isn’t really about the flag itself, but rather it is a reason for you to pretend you can claim moral superiority over other Americans. It is about power and control with your kind, always has been.

    Many Regressive like you don’t even bother trying to pretend to be a part of the Christian faith because your faith is Liberalism, your religion is politics first and foremost. It’s nice that you prove my point there skippy.

  16. Who in the hell gives these people the right to removed something that was put up before their lifetime. This is something that should be decided by all people, not just a few bigots. and Bigots are, despite the recent misconception, “…a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance.” You hate a people for the color of their skin, you hate a people for their religion, you hate a people who erected monuments to their fallen soldiers, you hate a people who raise a flag for their honored dead, you hate a people who believe in the heritage while you believe in the hate. So who really is the Bigot? Even Abraham Lincoln said play Dixie

  17. I could care less if you are interested here. If you don’t like the way the conversation is going then go away. You only came to this site to give your dishonest revisionist BS concerning the flag of traitors and racists.

    Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  18. “Believe me when I say that the US flag has a much longer history of white supremacy than the Confederate flag ever could…and even the most honest of your kind admit to this.”

    The nation got better. You haven’t.

    I am not the one glorifying that racist past. You are.

    You have nothing to offer in defense of your position besides diverting the topic, hurling insults and selective revisionist takes on history. Its amazing how much material facts and history you have to omit to keep your position going. I guess that is he drawback to trying to lay down such a pile of BS in defending the current symbol of white supremacy.

  19. You are bigoted against my support of symbols employed by white supremacists…blah blah blah!

    As for honored dead:

    So how would you feel about laying flowers on the grave of SS soldiers?
    Do you want to pour out a drink to honor the kamikazes?
    Ready to host a reunion of gulag guards?
    How would you feel about honoring the fallen Taliban and Iraqi insurgents?

  20. There is a great place for the Confederate flag in modern America, and it’s called a museum.

  21. How dare you claim the mantle of Christ and use religion to justify your bigotry and racism. That is surely the greatest blasphemy of all to use religion to justify the hatred of your fellow man.

  22. Wow…you are totally misinformed! How very sad that even with all the information in our modern day and time that people such as yourself remain so ingnorant to what the confederate flag actually stood/stands for. You do realize that it was the North that declared war on the South who wanted nothing more than to live their lives? Oh yes, that’s right, you’ve been taught the “northern version” of what REALLY happened. Such a shame that you tout your hatred so easily.

  23. For the ignorant, on both sides: the flag removed was not the flag of the Confederacy, it was the CSA’s battle flag. Whatever it ever meant, it is currently used by Northerners and Southerners as a symbol of racism. Removing it is reasonable.

    As for the figures, I would hope the Cathedral replaces Jackson with a noted black leader from the Civil War period. I would also hope that Lee remains. He served the Union until the Commonwealth seceded; after the peace treaty he urged his troops to accept defeat and not to start a guerrilla war; and until the end of his life he worked for reconciliation.

  24. “How dare me?” I have no use for your gods and devils I only pay attention to the facts. You have thrown racism and bigotry around so much, it’s the only excuse you can come up with. These were men who greatly honored the Christian religion. Common core education has taught you to be a bleeding heart liberal fool, Slavery was just an easy excuse for the Civil War. States rights and economics were the facts. Go read the true histories of Abraham Lincoln, of Jefferson Davis, of Robert E. Lee, of Stonewall Jackson, without the bigotry you hold in your heart for them. then judge them as you are trying to judge me.

  25. Members of my family have fought in every war this Country has ever fought. My great grandfather carried a Yankee musket ball in his leg until he died. His brother died in a Yankee prison camp. They never owned slaves they fought for the freedom of states rights. My grandfather fought against the Germans in the trenches of World War I. I have an uncle buried in the English Channel, I have an uncle whose PT boat was hit by a kamikaze strike. My father was in the sixth wave on the beaches of Normandy and in the Battle of the Bulge. In my Dad’s letters Bradly’s army almost had the Russians defeated but were pulled back out of Berlin after fools of government negotiated with Stalin, The gulags could have been stopped. If not for people who thought they knew everything, like yourself, and
    you hurt my feelings by leaving out my generations rice-paddy war. As for the Iraqi insurgents and Taliban, you mean the ones that want to crush and destroy any ideology other than theirs by destroying historical monuments? Blowing up history so that they can pretend that it never really happened. Controlling people by making them ashamed of who they were through religious ideology, making them convert to their religion. If not kill them. So the next time you decide to tear down a Confederate monument or take down a Confederate battle flag, your preaching the same ideology as ISIS. Tunick, Cherokee.

  26. I don’t think anyone here wishes to defend slavery and we would have avoided a great deal of suffering and cost if the founders had the moral courage to reject it at the outset. Perhaps two nations would have emerged on this portion of the continent instead of one. The superior quality of the one without slavery would have demonstrated itself quickly enough. But the point is moot. In the context and culture of the time who among us can declare without hubris that we would have made the proper choice. As to the Confederate flag (and it is the battle flag that all the hoo-hah is about), it is a mere device and takes on the coloration and meaning that those who wave it so choose. For the racist it is about white supremacy, for those proud of their southern culture and heritage, which encompasses far more than past slavery, it is a sentimental token, for the political it is a reasonable symbol of the doctrine of state’s rights in opposition to an overarching national government. For me, a northerner with no skin in the fight, it is a legitimate reminder of the history that formed our nation, I try to view it clinically without rancor, while accepting that others do not so view it.

  27. What amazes me here , as it has in other instances of this conversation, is the viciousness of the reply. Nothing in the original post seemed impolite, charged with hateful emotion, or thoughtless; in contrast, the response is quite virulent, filled with low-brow slurs, and thoughtless accusations devoid of meaningful content. It truly saddens me to see that this mindset is the one most commonly visible in these discussions.

  28. Tone trolling is duly noted.

    Maybe they should think harder before defending symbols associated with racism. Especially when using such patently nonsense arguments such as claiming it is only a reference to the past.

    I have yet to see someone defending that flag who doesn’t have a posting history of racist nonsense.

  29. Well if it makes you feel better my ancestors probably put that musket ball in your great grandfather’s leg. That was a price to pay for fighting for the states right to own human beings as chattel property.

    Your Dad was delusional. The US was not going to tangle with the Germans to take Berlin, let alone the Russians. The Russians lost more people in taking that one city than the US lost for most of the ETO. We weren’t going to put a dent in that. You really need to brush up on your history before you use it for making political points.

    I wouldn’t be expected to commemorate the Nazis, Kamikazes or Taliban. They are on the wrong side of history. So were the confederates. Made worse by the KKK using their flag as a symbol of their movement. The confederate flag is the US version of the swastika. Deal with it, whinybaby!

  30. What kind of mental deficient uses the “states rights” reference to the Confederacy but glosses over the issue was the states rights to own slaves?

    That “heritage” you speak of is glorifying violent armed insurgency against the nation. Celebrating a “honored” past when white supremacy was a given. Nowadays this whole topic is just an excuse to display racism openly in public.

  31. I have no objection to honest and rational discourse … even passionate opinions can be framed in a way that avoids ad hominem tactics. I maintain an ongoing dialogue with many of my former students (I taught in a high-poverty, predominantly black community for nearly 30 years and felt energized by every day of it) on issues of race, justice for all, and equal rights. Sometimes my POV seems unreasonable, in that I insist that equality for all means precisely equality for ALL and that even objectionable points of view are to be treated with respect (or uncommented on). It is a thorny conversation for almost everyone, but one in which we all should engage.

  32. You really aught to learn history before glorifying it.

    “North that declared war on the South who wanted nothing more than to live their lives?”

    Who fired the first shots of the civil war? Fort Sumpter ring a bell? The South wanted to continue living their lives of owning other lives as chattel property. Why can’t you be honest here?

    Shame on you for being so dishonest and for asking people to honor those in service of such an immoral cause. By all means in addition to your revisionism, top it off with a defense of slavery no confederates love to spew. I need a laugh.

  33. I’ve noted a couple things here: some people have ‘way too much time on their hands. Those same people apparently are very insecure because they have to be right all the time, and take issue with anyone who has a slightly different take on things. This discussion has broken down into lots of raw egotism that has moved it so far from the article, so it’s meaningless any reader hoping for clear insight to why the Confederate flag was removed from the people’s cathedral.

    Whether it’s represented by the stained glass or not, this country did divide over slavery, with parties on both sides having owned, bought and sold slaves. (Perhaps someone can research whether or not slave labor was used in the building of the National Cathedral! I’m betting it was.)

    A Civil War was fought. After the war, some people clung to their Confederate flags as a symbol of opposition to a strong central government calling all the shots. Abraham Lincoln tried to affect reconciliation and his efforts cost him his life. It was a painful time for the nation. No amount of well-intentioned political correctness trying to appease the descentants of slaves can change our history. Those who forget their history are likely to repeat same.

  34. “But it [the Swastika] is associated with racism here and now.”

    Oh quit your griping. My grandmother LIVED through the Nazi camps, and she still chose to display artwork from her home country that bore firecrosses. Despite suffering under the Nazis, it meant something different to her. And who are you to tell a Holocaust victim they are wrong??

  35. “The Confederates were traitors to the country.”

    The Confederacy was undoubtedly formed to preserve slavery, historical revisionists indeed are trying to cover this up.

    But please stop the myth that “being a traitor” is a valid reason to not like someone. Plenty of traitors to immoral regimes have existed throughout history, and their treason was virtuous. Being traitors has nothing to do with the real reasons to dislike the Confederates.

  36. This is pretty damn stupid.

    It’s okay to show Confederate troops on the stained glass but not the flag of those troops.

    Idiocy. Wouldn’t the TROOPS who fought for the preservation of slavery be a more offensive thing than the piece of cloth they used to mark their territory?? Why remove the flag but not the troops?? Doing it the way they’re doing it is essentially just WHITEWASHING the Confederacy, removing the uncomfortable image of what the Confederates stood for from the Confederates themselves!!

    It’s hilarious to me. The stained glass window STILL depicts an army ready to march and fight for the cause of slavery, but THANK GOODNESS they don’t have a flag!! THEN it would be TRULY OFFENSIVE!!

    I just don’t get why the FLAG is the line that can’t be crossed. Depicting Confederates, the Confederacy, Confederate troops, ALL OKAY. Depicting their flag?? Somehow THAT’S the only bad thing!! The FLAG is what is bad for race relations, the TROOPS are still fine to depict!! XD

    What next, in all historical depictions of Nazis marching to war we replace their swastika-flags with plain red or white flags??

  37. “So how would you feel about laying flowers on the grave of SS soldiers?
    Do you want to pour out a drink to honor the kamikazes?
    Ready to host a reunion of gulag guards?
    How would you feel about honoring the fallen Taliban and Iraqi insurgents?”

    Seems like all good ideas on the topic of forgiveness to me. My grandfather knew a kamikaze pilot (the day he went up was the day the war ended, and he had to suddenly learn how to land). From what I’ve been told that kamikaze was a nice guy, simply misled by the jingoism of his leaders. If anything, seems like the kamikazi pilots in particular were also victims of their state.

  38. So you have no sympathy for those brainwashed by their governments, given a weapon, and sacrificed on the battlefield to ensure the prosperity of those who deceived them??

    Tons of literal war crimes were committed during the Vietnamese War. The Indian Wars. The Mexican-American War. WWII. Hell, even the North during the Civil War committed war crimes in a scorched earth campaign to deliberately target and kill southern citizens, regardless of whether they had anything to do with slavery or the Confederate government!! Some of my ancestors were in the Northern side of the civil war, but that doesn’t cloud my judgement on many of the morally questionable actions they committed, which would be judged as war crimes by today’s standards!!

    I suppose, for the sake of consistency, you also don’t support commemorating the US troops brainwashed and dropped into Vietnam because they too were on the wrong side of history. Nor would you support commemorating your own ancestors, I imagine, who freed the slaves but committed actual war crimes to do so.

  39. I believe that someone here didn’t enjoy their cup of joe on National Coffee Day this morning. Which “stained glass window STILL depicts an army ready to march and fight for the cause of slavery” ? Surely you’re not confusing West Point(USMA) cadets for “Confederate troops”, now are ya?

  40. Let me put it to you this way, what are the chances anyone can film something like Gone with the Wind, a sweeping epic where plantation owners are the heroes in anything other than an ironic way nowadays?

    About nil.

    Even the Sympathetic Rebel narrative was already going the way of the dodo by the mid 1960’s. At best you have something like Cold Mountain, which was actually pretty harsh on the Confederate culture and how it used poor young people for the meatgrinder. The hero of that one is a deserter (in a Homer’s Odyssey narrative).

    Two of the best modern films in recent years about the Civil War depicted the Union as the heroes/protagonists, Glory and Gettysburg. (The less said about Gods and Generals, the better).

  41. A man who survived the Holocaust wins the lottery, $100 million. About 2 weeks later he invites all of his friends and family for a special dinner at his home to celebrate and share his newfound wealth.

    They are all seated at a huge table in a large dining hall of a newly bought mansion. Behind the man is a 10′ tall painting which is draped in a large cloth. The man says, “I owe everything to the man. So I painted his portrait for everyone to see”. The cloth is removed to reveal a painting of Adolf Hitler in a heroic pose. The crowd gasps in surprise. One of the guests asks the man, “Why would you ever have such a painting of that man, after everything he did to you?”

    The man replies, “He is the one who gave me the numbers”.


  42. “After the war, some people clung to their Confederate flags as a symbol
    of opposition to a strong central government calling all the shots”

    You seem to forget they were called the KKK. Their opposition to a strong central government had mostly to do with the enforcement of civil rights and equal protection under the law for all of the nation’s citizens.

  43. What an episcopel church does is its own business. Wish we’d quit calling this the “National Cathedral”. The episcople church is not the national church of the United States.

  44. Well if it was, your ancestor didn’t make it home. If the war was truly and completely over slavery, why did the Emancipation Proclamation free only the slaves in the South, not the North as well? Why was it in 1863, not before the start of the war? It also seems that you need to brush up on what Lincoln said about the blacks and slavery. Are you really that naive? Do you really think that the Russians would have split up Berlin if the Americans had already beaten them back. Anyway, he was there you were not. If your tearing down historical monuments you are ISIS, and the KKK are also holding American flags, do you want to take them down too? And you can change my mind if you show me a Confederate era soldier holding a swastika. These are just fairy tales made up in your mind. Anyway, are you one of those 400lb trolls living in your mom’s basement living off a welfare check that Trump was talking about?

  45. Conservatives are not the ones asking for “safe spaces” or the neutralizing of difficult conversations.

  46. At least Malcolm X. MLK earned respect. Malcolm not so much.

  47. “or the neutralizing of difficult conversations.”

    Really? So who uses the phrase, “You are playing the race/bigot card” when the subject is some kind of discrimination? How often is religion invoked to avoid criticism of a given viewpoint?

    It seems conservatives only want conversations going in their direction. Political correctness is one of those things which is more as something to be opposed (and excuses actions) than something which exists in any significant form.

  48. “If the war was truly and completely over slavery, why did the
    Emancipation Proclamation free only the slaves in the South, not the
    North as well?”

    To keep Great Britain and France out of the war. Both of them had abolished slavery (in obvious forms) and had spent military efforts destroying the slave trade.

    By all means try to think of other “state’s rights” issues which were getting people willing to secede from the nation? There weren’t any.

    “Do you really think that the Russians would have split up Berlin if the Americans had already beaten them back.”

    That was going to happen when? Never. At no point was tangling with the Russians over what was left of Germany ever an option. We were still looking for their assistance in the invasion of Japan after Germany surrendered. Your father was there, but he was a very small cog of a very very large machine.

    The rest of your post is just an incoherent mishmash of junk I am not even going to bother to address.

    The confederate battle flag is the US equivalent to the swastika. A symbol which represents a shameful past and a repugnant present position. By all means pretend the KKK still doesn’t use the flag as a symbol of their movement. Its laughable.

    “Anyway, are you one of those 400lb trolls living in your mom’s basement living off a welfare check that Trump was talking about?”

    That is an awfully detailed description. Sounds like personal experience there. 🙂

  49. Cute. But bigots always liked to wrap themselves up in phony patriotism as well.

    Feel free to walk through any predominately African American community waving around the Confederate flag if you think it is so inoffensive and has nothing to do with racism.

  50. Because the race card is all you have too play, get over it we are not going away and we will continue to display the flag on poles high and proud.

  51. You sir are the hurling insults and that shows how little you think of yourself. Personally I know the true history of the WBTS and your version is corrupt and you are a terminally intellectually crippled person.

  52. Actually Jackson also served honorably for the Union as you call it.

  53. The “superior quality” of the one one without slavery. Which one would that have been? Certainly not the northern colonies as they more than any of the southern colonies reinforced the purchase, transport, and resale of slaves.

  54. The secession of the Southern States was not an “armed insurgency” agianst their former country. You are the reason that abortions are legal.

  55. An separatist movement with its own military force in any other context is naturally considered an armed insurgency. But this is an exception? Nope. You are just uncomfortable with such frank descriptions.

    Abortions are legal because we don’t treat women as chattel property. Something you don’t seem to have a problem with.

  56. Extolling racist symbols and whitewashing history with such obvious and dishonest revisionism is insulting. The arguments used to support this nonsense are some of the most half baked dog whistle racist garbage online. Get bent.

    Someone who describes the founding of the KKK as

    “Actually General Forrest started it to protect Southern farmers, businesses and defenseless women and children from the depredations of the lawless yankee carpetbaggers and soldiers.”

    has no interest in honest representations of history and is just trying to gloss over their own racism with this topic.

  57. People who complain about “the race card” don’t ever refute accusations of racism. Just show thin skin about it being pointed out. Fly that on your own property. It doesn’t belong in government facility.

  58. “He made me shoot him by taunting me”.

    Breaking away to form your own country is usually grounds for civil war. Czechoslovakia excepted.

  59. Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth”
    -Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy

    Slavery was the Confederacy’s purpose for existence.

  60. “I” haven’t? As in singular I?
    You know, I am not all that old, certainly not 230+ years old. I have only been around a fairly brief period of that time. Indeed I was born in the mid-70s.
    Exactly how have I “glorified a racist past” in any way? Please site a quote I have thus far offered on that subject. What I have “omitted” or presented in any way that supports your rather broad-based and quizzical attack? Please site something. Anything.

    As for your post (I note that your kind seem to champion that particular individual more than actual white supremacists do – another point that doesn’t favor you and yours) I will take your one moron and raise you a hundred others:

  61. Oh I am not going anywhere my friend. I do not surrender the floor to a troll so easily. I am hoping for an honest discussion of topics here since you threw the gantlet down, not a rehashing of tired and failed talking points that have been refuted time and time again.

    So what do you say, Spuddie? Care to offer something worthy of an actual intellectual argument?

  62. A neo-confederate website’s revisionist opinion isn’t really worth much here. As I posed the question to another poster,

    What other state’s right had gotten the South so up in arms and willing to leave the Union over?

  63. You only crawled out from under a rock to comment on this topic. Never saw you on this board before. Won’t see you again unless this topic comes up. Could care less about the wishes of a bunch of closet racists and revisionists bemoaning that their views have fallen out of favor with the general public.

  64. Riiiiight. You are trying to make excuses and whitewash for what is currently considered a symbol of racism/white supremacy. Whatever.

    The Civil War was won by the right side. The world would be in terrible shape had the Confederacy survived. There would never be an American superpower had that breakaway nation succeeded. They are history and rightfully so. Something to be consigned to the dustbin of history. We can all do without revisionist BS in this day and age.

  65. Well, I have a little bit but I don’t live online. Maybe we can continue this conversation tomorrow. If you want we can hash it out on my blog. I mean unlike this board, my blog is uncensored. So if you want a real debate with a moderator who won’t block you, or censor your words, then I invite you to check it out. Bring your friends (or at least your cheerleaders) with you if you please.

  66. Once again the Man the Deniers Fear Most claims another set of balls. 🙂 A small trophy to be sure, but hey….

  67. Obviously you did not read the point-by-point response on the page.
    Well, it is written for a 4th grade and up reading level, but I figured after about six hours you would have worked your way to a menial understanding of it.

  68. I have a feeling in the next few months you and yours will find themselves on the wrong side of recent history. When that turn around becomes apparent I hope you will remember that there will be people like me around to make sure that when your own cultural heritage will not come under the chopping block in about 30 years or less that I would stand up and protect it as surely as I do the memories of the honored Southern dead and their symbols now.

  69. I was positing a hypothetical, certainly the slave debacle was aided and abetted by northerners, yet at the same time, in a handful of northern states, led by Quakers and other religious and political minorities slavery began to be disavowed. Even Lincoln, the Great Emancipator, did not start out in favor of the abolition of slavery. The all or nothing approach to history demonstrates a lack of critical thinking skills as demonstrated by many of the posts on this thread.

  70. If you’re looking for passionate but rational discourse which avoids ad-hominem responses, sadly, in a large measure, you’ve come to the wrong place.

  71. Which raises an interesting point. No one would argue against Jackson being an ardent nationalist and advocate of a strong central government, at the same time he was a slave holder, whom it appears did not have a particularly high view of blacks. So the question is: How would Jackson have responded to secession by the southern states given his strong nationalist tendencies which would have conflicted with the state’s rights claims of the south, which it might be reasonably argued were a partial covering for their commitment to slavery? I think the situation would have challenged even one as confident in his opinions as Jackson. Given the passion on this page, I’ve tried to frame the question as neutrally as I can.

  72. Malcolm X is no worse than MLK and actually more American. White Americans think it’s great to wage war against the bad guys for freedom…except when they are the bad guys.

    Americans are against violence unless you take up guns and kill for your country then they put you on currency and elect you president.

    George Washington is revered in this country and he killed people for a regime that kept humans in bondage. Malcolm X never killed anyone.

    Both advocated for the freedom of their people, yet only one is celebrated.
    I’m not advocating violence. It is not the answer, but I recognize hypocrisy.

  73. That’s okay. Why would we want anything we value associated with that demonic temple?

  74. You over-generalize a bit here, my friend. Some may have been KKK, but they were many other vanquished Southerners.

    Did you have any success, researching the facts about whether or not any slave labor went into the building of the National Cathedral? That fine historical structure is Episcopal.They were definitely land owners and no doubt, slave owners as well.

  75. True, but everything in Washington somehow gets to call themselves the “National” whatever, even if it is relatively insignificant. The National Aquarium, for example, paled in comparison to the Baltimore Aquarium, until the time the former got absorbed by the latter and the latter took the former’s name. And the Metropolitan Opera in New York sniffs with derision at the Washington National Opera. BTW there’s a National Synagogue and a National Shrine (Catholic) too.

  76. The short answer is that even iconoclasm has its limits. I’m not a fan of it myself, if only because it creates these ad hoc distinctions and the whole thing comes out looking like it got handled hamfistedly. The other answer is the one you gave, the flag has come to be seen as what’s bad for race relations, based in large part on the 1960s, not the 1860s; but no one wants to be seen as attacking the rank-and-file. You may recall that Ronald Reagan visited the Bitburg German military cemetery in 1985 with West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl (to whom Reagan owed a lot geopolitically). Even though there were SS soldiers buried there, Reagan argued that the regular German troops buried there were drafted by the Nazis against their will and were just as much victims as those of the camps.

  77. What states rights issue had them sporting those flags after the war? Jim Crow and voting rights for blacks. White supremacy in legal form.

    “Vanquished southerners” is simply KKK and people sympathetic to them. It’s not an over generalization, it’s just not a socially favorable assessment.

    Could care less about slave holding before secession. It is not relevant to the discussion. Maryland and DC were not even allowed to defend.

  78. I won’t debate this with you. You’ve got your mind set to believing lies and there’s nothing I can say that will change your mind. Oh, and btw…I’m from New Jersey.

  79. I do not mean to denigrate Stonewall Jackson, only to say that if the cathedral is considering the removal of either or both images, Jackson is the lesser of the two. Having died in the war, he did not have the opportunity to work for reconciliation during reconstruction as Lee did.

  80. There is no debate. Your position is dependent on revisionism, omission of material facts and sub rosa racism. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  81. Your cultural heritage is the failure of violent actions in defense of keeping human beings as chattel property. The southern dead fought for an unworthy cause. I have yet to see someone talking about “Southern Heritage” who didn’t try to minimize, gloss over, ignore or flat out lie about the underlying white supremacy it entails.

  82. If you couldn’t bring the arguments here, I could not care. Its not like you were making a link to a fact source here. One person’s editorializing isn’t much of a support here. Your laziness is duly noted.

  83. Had you bothered to read the post I sent you then you might have. As it stands your failure shows you choose not to learn.
    BTW I thought you decided to bail.

  84. Well so far you’ve failed to bring up a valid point of discussion. Just more pontificating on and on ad nauseum.
    Again it looks like you couldn’t just walk away like you said you were. Guess that means you are disingenuous all around and not just in the area of academic debate. LOL!

  85. You have nothing left to say or are you just flinging poo. Go outside. Burn a cross or something. Take those bedsheets to the cleaners.

  86. You are too lazy to make your points here. Don’t care to go to some self-published website to read your opinion. I already don’t think much of your POV. Just white supremacist BS and historical revisionism.

  87. If you are assuming my position is informed by “white” ethnicity, your assumption would be in error. Both Mom and Dad were black.

  88. Blacks are no less susceptible to buying into the MLK-good, Malcolm-bad dichotomy than whites. That’s what happens when you allow your children to be taught in a school system that devalues the achievements of black people and exists to minimize the implicitness of whites in the negative conditions many African-Americans find themselves in today.

    A white man that says it’s ok to kill others for the freedom of his people is a patriot and hero. When Malcolm X says do it, he’s a “dangerous” black man. Malcolm X never killed anyone. Can George Washington say that?

  89. Kinda hard to be a white supremacist when one isn’t completely “white” huh fignuts?

  90. Yeah your mom did kinda leave a mess on them last night.
    BTW Happy Rosh Hashanah. 🙂

  91. It took you 4 days to drop that steaming pile of dookie? Pathetic.

  92. Not really. Cognitive dissonance is a pretty common thing.

  93. Another way of saying “token” in other words.

  94. Well you see unlike you I don’t live on stay living online in my parent’s basement eating ding-dongs and greasy snackfood…I have this thing called a social life. You know that’s when you actually expose yourself to sunlight and other people.
    Maybe someday you too will know the joys of actually knowing a woman’s touch (or a guy’s depending on your tastes) instead of fondling action figures you got from Ebay.

  95. Boooooring. I am not bothering to read what you write anymore.

  96. Exactly how many hours, excuse me, I mean months of liberal propaganda did you watch before you ended up this brainwashed? Seriously, mate, please visit a library or some primary internet sources end spend just a many hours studiyng real history as you spent watching liberal BS. Maybe you’ll end up just fine after all.

    And to someone who compares the Confederate Flag with the swastika, I do not only recommend a refreshment of our own countries history (Civil War), but also of European history (WW2). The more profound knowledge you would acquire would make you understand the many differences.

    Btw.: I’ve been a history teacher for over 40 years. I read some of your other comments, in some of which you referred to WIKI as a source. I’m sorry, mate, wiki is a secondary source on which anyone, with or without a graduate or even the required knowledge about the whole subject, can post whatever he likes. I regard wiki as a handy website to acquire a little superficial knowledge about a subject and I will always respect someones comitted research, although not credible or historically correct/valuable, but I can assure you that in higher historic circles, a ‘wiki-man’ simply becomes the victim of mockery.
    Good luck, mate.

  97. You want to fling poo. I could care less.

    Please by all means try to mitigate, ignore or excuse both the association of the confederacy with slavery and the use of the flag by the KKK as a symbol of white supremacy. Its not like the whole “Southern tradition and culture” is anything worth taking seriously. You aren’t going to argue your way out of the connotation of the flag with not only slavery of the past, but the violent enforcement of white supremacy for a century thereafter. No different from the swastika in that it went from an innocuous symbol to one associated with a grave historical evil. So I do not take your criticism remotely seriously.

    I feel sorry for your students. I wonder what kind of revisionist nonsense you have been able to get away with teaching. I find few conservatives who treat history with any degree of honesty or objectivity (Victor Davis Hanson is an exception). Most engage in truly boneheaded omission and misrepresentation that most people pick up on with little to no effort. That is when they are not fabricating stuff whole hog (David Barton makes a living by lying about history to make conservatives feel special). Frankly when it comes to online discussion wiki is a valid shortcut for research. In such discussions usually the people most likely to be slinging BS are the ones who start going in on wikipedia.

  98. Amen, young lady! You hit the nail right on the head with historically correct facts in your reply, and you also show some real backbone here!
    You show patriotism and honesty, and thus you have my deepest respect and the best greetings from El Paso!

  99. I am the widow of a descendant of a Black Confederate, mother of 3 black kids and grandmother of 5 black kids. I defend the Confederate flag for what it symbolizes in its correct and complete history. I never posted any racist comment ever, for it would be insulting my own family. So hereby you met someone who defends the flag for its true history without a istory of osting racist comments. Satisfied now?

  100. That sure is a magnificent reaction. Taunting me won’t change the fact that you simply ignore more than half of the flags symbolism and true history, and that you are the one consulting secondary resources, not me. Even wiki itself admits it ain’t always the most reliable website and schools even forbid students to commit research on it. For being extra clear: school management does, not the teachers who have to obey the schools regulations. No school director or colleague has ever called me historically incorrect or incomplete during my carreer which lasted more than 40 years!
    In the Belgian school where I taught history I also learned an old Belgian saying which fits you quite well:
    “Wat baten kaars en bril als de uil niet zien wil”
    Maybe you can even find the translation and meaning on wiki as well…

  101. Ha ha, amen, mate!
    Answer to your question: No, he doesn’t. Besides he doesn’t listen to anything of correct and complete historic info posted to him from valid sources written by graduated historians either. He keeps on answering with the same post everybody already read the first time.
    I’m gonna have a nap as well I think 😉
    Greetings from El Paso

  102. You are still here? Isn’t there another site you can troll for this subject? This one is all played out. Your alleged family history doesn’t change a word of my position. FInd another article on the American Swastika to go purvey your revisionist nonsense. I don’t give a sh1t what you have to say.

  103. Don’t give a sh1t about what you have to say here. This article is old and stale. Find another one to troll.

  104. I could say the same of you: apparently, you’re still here as well. And frankly, I answered your comment with plain historic facts, no trolling involved.
    Btw.: I already noticed that it is all played out myself while reading here: I believe you already wrote the same thing over and over again for more times than I have fingers on both hands, mate.

  105. The Russians tried that? China tried that? The 2/3 of the world that hates America’s guts tried that? Huh, I must’ve been frying okra and missed it. 😀

    The rest of the world despises Big Brother Sam for the same reasons the South does – Chronic meddlesome interference in the affairs of other nations. And look what it’s gotten you – Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam, Russia – And the list goes on. The rest of us will just bide our time… 😉

    As far as Dixie goes, give it up, Dude. Your accusations are tired. Even when we Southerners ARE cranks, at least we’ve got several different flavors of eccentricity – You statist haters can only play one note and you do that without any finesse or judgment of who you’re lamely trying to accuse. All your stock lines about the Klan and racism have zero impact, because you’re talking to the bogeyman you made up in your head, not to the actual people you’re so toothlessly trying to insult.

    If you’re gonna troll and don’t know how to improvise for your audience, at least get a new act – We’ve heard this one and it doesn’t play. 😀

  106. Dixie is gone, never coming back and good riddance. Get over it already. Have an honest perspective. Their insurgency was ultimately crushed and the united states is better for it. You have no coherent point here to make.

    BTW unless you are a college poli-sci professor, using the word statist pegs one as a goofball libertarian. Someone who is ill at ease with any form of rule beyond might makes right. It’s telling that the southern states generally hover at the bottom of quality of life metrics in the country.

  107. Funny, I’m standing here in Dixie, and I don’t feel at all crushed. You and Uncle Sammy already tried the “It’s over, good riddance” bit with Reconstruction and it didn’t work very well, so get over it yourself. 😉

    Judging by recent headlines about U.S. relations with the world, my perspective is pretty damn honest – America is beset by foreign and domestic enemies due to its perpetual meddling in the business of others, and it is at long last paying the price, and I say GOOD. That’s pretty coherent. For that matter, so is this:

    Statism – A political system in which the state has substantial centralized control over social and economic affairs.

    Doesn’t take a poli-sci professor to grasp, does it? Since you don’t know who or what I may be, I’d suggest you refrain from language-policing. You’re a real little label-maker, but you’ve got your work cut out for you here. And your faith in a by-the-numbers assessment of Southern quality of life only tells me that you don’t know much about either the diversity or the values of Dixie, which was pretty much evident from the get-go.

    So you’ve tried the typical cultural and educational insults and come up empty. Anything else? ;D

  108. You are the product of Dixie going down in flames. You are just too ignorant to realize it.

    “You and Uncle Sammy already tried the “It’s over, good riddance” bit with Reconstruction and it didn’t work very well.;

    You are proud of nearly a century of terror, segregation and lawlessness? Good effing grief!!! That is an awful legacy to hold up.

    “Perpetual meddling”, I bet included stuff like the civil rights act and voting rights act. Uncle Sam meddling with that bigoted hierarchy you guys made for yourselves. I know libertarians get all in a hizzy over that. Most of you guys blubber on about the evil government while taking loads of money on entitlements and benefits from them. Typical blowhards.

  109. Assume much? 😀 I’m a product of the very best parts of Dixie – Self-sufficient, independent, successful, and happily sans entitlements. You’re throwing rocks at a target that’s out of your range, hoss. 😉

    Ever hear of the Union League? There are two shoes in every box, mister one-note. You’re the one cherry-picking legacies. I’m just well-informed enough not to buy your party line.

    Did I mention the civil rights movement? No, I didn’t. YOU did. Like all knee-jerk Lefties, you have an imaginary conversation with yourself, then imagine it’s real.

    As far as a “bigoted hierarchy we made for ourselves”, you DO realize that slavery was a nationwide state of existence, don’t you? You DO know that the majority of the slave fleet was based in and owned by New England states, don’t you? You ARE aware that in the 1700s Virginia begged England to STOP sending slaves to America, aren’t you? You DO know that numerous northern states passed laws to prevent people of color from moving into their communities both before and after the war, don’t you? You HAVE read Lincoln’s 1858 comments that the black race was inferior to the white and coexistence was impossible, haven’t you? That bigoted hierarchy you mention WAS and IS an American hierarchy – Any shit you sling at me is on your hands too…

    You’re the blowhard, dude, and it isn’t working because you don’t know how to listen.

  110. I am not the one crowing about the resistance to Reconstruction and by implication subsequent efforts to avoid big old Uncle Sam from imposing its will of civil rights upon Dixie (a statement claimed largely by the KKK and cohorts). That was all you.

    Keep making excuses for the use of owning people as chattel property. That makes it more morally justified, right? /sarcasm

    Its a shame you can’t just be honest with a shameful past and move on. But then again that means doing stuff like forking over undue privilege and acknowledging the existence of those you would rather just despise.

    Reactionaries extolling a more violent past are nothing new with rose colored glasses is nothing new.

  111. I absolutely AM crowing about resisting Reconstruction because it represents a homegrown counterinsurgency against federally-mandated militias and the Union League, Yankees that hung a LOT of black folks who wouldn’t tow the line while they were trying (unsuccessfully) to subjugate the South. You knew that, right, Mister Clear-Conscience? 😉

    And you DO realize that all of the memes you posted use photos from the second Klan movement of the 1930s-60s, which was a reprehensible and entirely separate entity from the anti-Union League/Carpetbagger Reconstruction-era Klan of the 1860s and 70s, don’t you? You DO know that there have been three separate organizations that call themselves the Klan, don’t you? Or do you also think that the modern-day hippies who get high and beat drums around Stonehenge once a year are real druids because they call themselves by that name? 😀

    Seriously dude, who are you talking to?!? The only entity I’ve mentioned despising is the overreaching federal government, so unless you mean Big Bro I don’t know where you’re getting this nonsense from. Help your own legitimacy – READ before you type! Pay attention to what other people say instead of the voices in your head, for heaven’s sake! If you want to troll effectively, you’ve got to know your victim, and your comic-book fantasy is interfering with reality! 😀

    I don’t need to make excuses for the owning of anyone, since if my ancestors did it’s likely yours did too at some point, Mister White-Hat. Slavery is dead as a doornail and Dixie is still here for all the right reasons – Family, faith, culture, and country, and some bush-league troll who can’t be bothered to listen or learn anything beyond a pop culture meme is not going to change that by sitting and typing on Disqus ’til doomsday. Spend less time here and more time reading broadly. You’re not dumb – Just ignorant of your subject. Yankee, heal thyself! 😀

  112. You are a white supremacist, quel surprise. Still pretending you have reasonable excuses for one of the worst and longest periods of domestic terrorism in US history. Riiiight. Whatever. I can’t even pretend you have a remotely reasonable POV. It looks like the entirety of your online existence is just trolling for neo confederate. bullshit.

    “The only entity I’ve mentioned despising is the overreaching federal government”

    I don’t even want to know what overblown hysterical nonsense you would call “overreach”. Usually with your type it means not being allowed to pose a danger and peril to the general public.

    Go outside. Burn as cross or something. This discussion is stale. I consider you an unhinged reactionary extremist with nothing remotely socially redeemable in your view.

  113. The entirety of MY existence, Mister I’ve-Responded-To-Every-Comment-On-This-Thread?!? XD

    Of course you consider me an unhinged reactionary extremist, sunshine. I imagine that you consider everyone who doesn’t agree with your dyspeptic rantings an unhinged reactionary extremist because you can’t listen or think. Consequently your “attacks” are about as effective as a Nerf gun, and your French is faulty too, quelle surprise. 😉

    I’d consider another hobby – Trolling is obviously not your strong suit. But I can understand your obsession with slavery, because you’ve definitely been owned. 😉

  114. Whatevs. The more you post, the more unhinged your POV appears.

    “But I can understand your obsession with slavery”

    Said the man going on and on about a flag of an insurgency which made it their raison d’etre. Irony is lost on you. Have a nice life. 🙂

  115. The next step should be to remove the Lewis and Clark windows in the
    National Cathedral. They were both slave owners and even took a slave
    with them on their trip.

    When will they remove the Thomas Jefferson window that’s in the
    National Cathedral? He was a slave master.

    When will they remove the James Madison window that’s in the
    National Cathedral? He was a slave master.

    When will they remove the tomb of known racist and segregationist
    President Woodrow Wilson from the National Cathedral. I know that Dean
    Francis Sayre was the grandson of Woodrow Wilson, and he marched with Martin
    Luther King at Selma, but he also was the man that installed the Lee and
    Jackson Windows.

    When will they remove the statue of the slave master George
    Washington that’s in the National Cathedral? How can the National
    Cathedral reside in Washington, DC anyway when it was named after a slave
    master? Move it all out now!

    How about removing the memorial to General Nelson Miles, the man
    that slaughtered countless Native Americans honored in the National Cathedral?

    Why does the National Cathedral still accept money with slave
    masters on it? You’re good with pennies, $5’s and $10’s, everything else
    has a slave master on it. That goes for the gift shop and the entry fees
    charged tourists too.

    When will they change the name of the National Cathedral’s Elementary
    School which is currently named after the retirement home of Confederate
    President Jefferson Davis?
    Have you removed all of the “Dixie Cups” from the kitchen and all other areas?
    Have all personal burned their white sheets?
    Absurd? Yes … the desecration of those windows like the destruction of religious symbols carried out by ISIS/ISUL is absurd.

  116. Spuddie if you are white then you are traitor to your people are your heritage, if not then please STOP attacking my heritage! You can take a flying leap for all I care. You’re nothing but an SPLC/ADL stooge…

  117. Spuddie it must really suck to be you… walking around all day with your tail between your legs as you scream about racism, white supremacy, and other figments of your imagination. You only protest others, never believing in any of your own ideas. You get off on attacking other people who actually have courage because they actually talk about controversial ideas, while you push the accepted politically correct bullshit!

  118. Get bent, Johnny Come Lately Redneck. You are two years too late for me to give a crap about your opinion here.

    Your heritage is treason, terrorism and bigotry. I can think of no country which celebrates failed insurrection for a repugnant cause. People taking up arms against it to enslave others.

    Not something to be proud of. You support losers of history who deserved their fate. It’s only because of terrorists like the KKK that these seditious slime got their statues and memorials.

    My heritage is American. My ancestors gave a history of putting Confederate and Nazi trash in the ground in service of our nation. Your whiny snowflake complaints are noted and ignored. Real Americans don’t need to respect it.

  119. Poor Nazi derp comes two years late to the party and thinks people have to care about his opinion.

    You are a snowflake who is annoyed about being called out for having immoral andcrroygndjt views. Baby need a diaper change?

Leave a Comment