Beliefs Culture Ethics Faith Faith 2016 Institutions News Politics

Is there a ‘Trump effect’ on public morality?

Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump attends a church service in Detroit on Sept. 3, 2016. Photo courtesy of Reuters/Carlo Allegri

(RNS) Americans, and white evangelical Christians in particular, have often distinguished themselves from their cynical Old World cousins by maintaining a high bar for the personal moral behavior of their elected officials.

They also tended to link such rectitude to the ability to carry out their public duties effectively.

But whether it is the ugly language and behavior often displayed by Republican candidate Donald Trump, or some other factor, U.S. voters — especially those same evangelicals — appear to have vanquished their inner Puritan and are now far more accepting of sinning politicians.

That’s the upshot of a survey released Wednesday (Oct. 19) showing 61 percent of Americans now say that “immoral personal behavior does not preclude public officials from carrying out their public or professional duties with honesty and integrity.”

In 2011, only 44 percent of Americans said the same.

Yet what’s most notable in the survey by the Public Religion Research Institute and the Brookings Institution is that white evangelical Protestants have shifted their views more dramatically than any other group:

Today, the PRRI survey shows, 72 percent of white evangelicals say an elected official “can behave ethically even if they have committed transgressions in their personal life,” a 42-point jump from 2011, when only 30 percent agreed with that statement.

This chart of data from the PRRI/Brookings survey released Oct. 19, 2016, shows a sharp change in the public's acceptance of "personal immorality" by elected officials.

This chart of data from the PRRI/Brookings survey released Oct. 19, 2016, shows a sharp change in the public’s acceptance of “personal immorality” by elected officials.

The data also show that those same conservative Christians, viewed as the core constituency for the Republican Party, continue to give strong backing to Trump, with nearly 7 in 10 of them saying they will vote for the GOP nominee over his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton.

Clinton herself has received low marks for honesty and trustworthiness from voters as she has had to answer ongoing questions about her use of a personal email account while she was secretary of state and the funding of the private charitable foundation she started with her husband.

She has also been dogged by questions about the propriety of earning huge speaking fees from various groups, among other things.

But the striking fact about the latest PRRI poll – which also gave Clinton a huge 51-36 point advantage among likely voters ahead of tonight’s third and final debate – is the shift in views among the very Christian conservatives who are supporting Trump.

“This new data indicates that white evangelicals are not just turning a blind eye to Trump’s many indiscretions, but they are warping their principles to accommodate their preferred candidate,” said Robert Jones, head of PRRI and author of “The End of White Christian America,” an analysis of the recent political and cultural transformations in the U.S.

“Rather than standing by principle and letting the chips fall where they may, they’ve now fully embraced a consequentialist ethic that allows the ends to justify the means,” Jones added.

Many evangelical critics of Trump have said that there is no way Bible-believing Christians could support the GOP candidate, who has been married three times and bragged about his sexual exploits and penchant for groping women.

Those critics also say that accepting Trump’s character flaws undermines the very arguments used against Democrats such as former President Bill Clinton, who was blasted by Christian conservatives after revelations that he had an affair with a White House intern.

“This is what compromising your convictions for political expediency looks like in a chart,” the Christian writer and Trump critic Rachel Held Evans tweeted in response to the new survey.

But in a split that could portend a long-lasting schism in the old religious right, other evangelicals are supporting Trump by arguing that Christians need a strong leader who can protect them from secularizing trends in America life.

About the author

David Gibson

David Gibson is a national reporter for RNS and an award-winning religion journalist, author and filmmaker. He has written several books on Catholic topics. His latest book is on biblical artifacts: "Finding Jesus: Faith. Fact. Forgery," which was also the basis of a popular CNN series.

125 Comments

Click here to post a comment

  • Trump would be known as the “Puxxy” President”.!
    How do we point to him and tell our children, thats what you should be like. Follow his path and someday you too can become President!!

  • Not to mention replacing “Love your neighbor” with “Treat your neighbors to insults, violence, intimidation, racism, sexism, religionism, ableism, nationalism, etc.”; replacing “Keep your word” with violating contracts by refusing to pay people for work (even by a group of young girls who travelled to a rally to sing for Trump after he promised to reimburse their travel expenses); and replacing his own conscience-free record of exporting work and importing workers with “Foreign countries are stealing our American jobs!”

    Why anyone would condemn Hillary Clinton with “low marks for honesty and trustworthiness”, and at the same time commend Donald Trump with a pass for those same criteria, is beyond me…

    …Oh, wait. I understand. It’s because he’s replaced the moral yardstick with one that’s adjustable.

  • So Evangelicals have finally revealed openly how much their “values platform” was just always steaming pile of BS. It has never been about morality. It has always been about forcing people to do as they say. So now they are dropping even the pretense of their alleged values now.

    Its all about voting for Trump because he promises to:
    – Attack the civil liberties of racial and ethnic minorities
    – Attack the civil liberties of women
    – Attack the civil liberties of gays

  • I’ll defer to Nancy Reagan on that one:
    “I have a little gun… It’s just a tiny little gun… I don’t know anything about it.”

  • Hillary Clinton (3rd debate): “He [Trump] shipped jobs to 12 countries, including Mexico.”

    Washington Post’s Fact Checker: “This is correct. Trump has a long history of outsourcing a variety of his products and has acknowledged doing so. We know of at least 12 countries where Trump products were manufactured (China, the Netherlands, Mexico, India, Turkey, Slovenia, Honduras, Germany, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam and South Korea). Further, Trump products transited other countries through the packaging and shipping process — meaning workers in more than 12 countries contributed to getting many of Trump’s products made, packaged and delivered to the United States.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-final-2016-presidential-debate/

  • The end justifies the means. Making a deal with the Devil. Apt cliches. There will be fallout and finger pointing after the election as one contingent acuses the other of selling out in order to further their agenda.

    Matthew 16:26
    For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

  • “the propriety of earning huge speaking fees from various groups, among other things.” You mean like Reagan did?

    “This is what compromising your convictions for political expediency looks like in a chart.” Rachel Held Evans
    Exactly. And there goes white evangelical integrity. Glub, glub, glub.

  • Re: “But whether it is the ugly language and behavior often displayed by Republican candidate Donald Trump, or some other factor, U.S. voters — especially those same evangelicals — appear to have vanquished their inner Puritan and are now far more accepting of sinning politicians.”

    Well, sure. Because “morality” aside, little Donnie is saying all the things they like hearing. Build the wall! Ban the Muslims! Lock her up! The media’s conspiring against them! All that stuff. For them it’s “Morality, schmorality, we got our guy!”

  • Oh, please. America is a lip-service “Christian” nation. The more people talk the talk, the more Tiddy Bars there are.

    What a load of duplicitous garbage. Get rid of those, make pubs and bars shut down at a reasonable hour and raise the national smoking age to 21 (as a start) and maybe we’d start to be able to be taken seriously as a Christian nation.

    Perhaps if 2/3 of people (men and women) didn’t have affairs in their marriages, we’d be able to be taken seriously as a Christian nation.

    Perhaps if we actually bent over backwards to support single and poor expectant mothers instead of forcing them to choose abortion, we’d be able to be taken seriously as a Christian nation.

    Perhaps if we didn’t interfere in the internal working of OTHER nations by military force (thanks George Dumblewe) while we have such a mess here, we’d be able to be taken seriously as a Christian nation.

    I could EASILY go on with dozens of examples of how the US is FAR from being a Christian nation in anything other than self-delusional backslapping and lip-service.

    We lie to ourselves in order to embolden ourselves to lie to each other and the world.

    Hardly Christian.

    And that’s only getting FAR worse with the hateful, racist, sexist predatory bigot we all KNOW Trump to be.

  • Don’t forget about dissolving the First Amendment so that we can’t fight back about it, we can’t talk about it and the Press can’t tell us about it.

    Then, we can’t even pray about it.

    Then we can ask for permission to selectively do what they tell us to do.

    Donito Trumpolini: The man who intends to be Il Duce d’America and Make America Grope Again!

  • Thing is, most haven’t even looked at how he’s conducted himself in business either; they just see the money, and give him a pass there as well!

  • Not all of us, so don’t lump us all in that pile; what you’re actually seeing is the sheep being separated from the goats, and the wolves in sheeps’ clothing. BTW, homosexuals HAD all the same civil liberties as the rest of us as of ’64; what they’re demanding now, and getting are special protections and privileges!

  • Exactly; like Hitler did in the early ’30s, Trump has hit the hot-button emotional issues, and thereby bypassed all critical thinking in most of his listeners/followers!

  • Your post is exactly the kind of person I am talking about. Any qualms you had about Trump probably came when such things were obvious to everyone else. Its really not because of Trump’s agenda. Its just his personality. You probably have no problem with Mike Pence and he is just as reprehensible (But much more composed in public).

    “BTW, homosexuals HAD all the same civil liberties as the rest of us as of ’64”

    Why do you have to lie so badly? Being gay prior to 2003 could have meant prosecution in some states. Don’t give me this special protections and privileges BS! If not for Fundies deliberately using the law to attack gays, much of the issues concerning their civil liberties would never have come up.

  • You’re the one lying about civil rights. As for Trump; my “qualms” about him have been long standing; since the mid ’80s, in fact, when I saw up close how he conducts his business and lives!

  • It became my call the minute they started putting their hands in my pockets to deal with their own bad choices!

  • Trump was not my first choice, in fact near the bottom. I voted for Cruz in
    primary! We now have Trump & I waited to see who he would choose as VP
    and he passed that test w/Pence.
    I have slowly been making list between our two choices & w/o a doubt Trump
    wins. He will surround himself w/good people. I look at him as a work in progress
    but I have always loved bumper sticker that assures people God isn’t finished
    w/me yet!! I also am reminded of a man named Saul that became someone
    we look to for his wisdom, Paul. God changed his heart!!
    Remember Trump has been raised in priveledge & is just now going amongst
    the people & I think he likes us!!
    Hillary in the other hand has surrounded herself w/very questionable people.
    Married a man that was less than a good example, but he was also stepping
    stone to desired outcome – first woman President! I believe she was the woman
    behind the man. I think her choice of Cain is perfect example of how
    she does not desire strength in her inner circle. He would be next in line!!
    She grew up part of The people & has done everything she could to move up & she has never looked back. She doesn’t like us!!
    WE MUST VOTE – NO STAYING HOME – NO THIRD PARTY- NO HILLARY
    TRUMP – PENCE 2016

  • I am constantly paying for Bible thumpers making bad choices. When towns get sued for flagrant violations of basic civil liberties in promoting Christian privilege on the public dime. SFW?

    Paying taxes doesn’t entitle you to a say in the decisions of individuals. You don’t want so many unwanted pregnancies then support planned Parenthood, easy access to contraception and abortion rights. If you won’t do any of that, then nobody needs to care. You are part of the problem.

  • You are too dishonest for words here. I gave you a clear example of why you were full of it. If you want to play denial games, do them elsewhere. I get the feeling whatever candidate would have appealed to you would be a miscreant as well.

  • What Trump brings to the table, and which the dems have never done, is a strong dose of common sense. Whatever his moral shortcomings may be, (and let each holier-than-thou cast the first stone) he appeals and SHOULD appeal to every American who believes in this country and its values which have been considerably eroded away since the advent of Obama. Clinton’s bad points far outweigh Trump’s when considered that she has been guilty of actual crimes that would have imprisoned anyone else; but she’ll probably be elected because 80 % of the women in this country will vote for her – not because she is imminently capable or qualified, (far from it) but only because she’s a WOMAN; that plus the minorities, illegal immigrants, and dead people (dead people always vote democratic) will put her in office for 8 years as they did with Obuma and this country will finally be brought to its’ knees

  • It does when the bad individual decisions are NOT he ov’t’ s right to take another’s money to pay for!

  • So you support easy access to contraception, family planning and a woman’s right to an abortion?

    I bet not. You are part of the problem.

  • Wrong! I support NONE of that! I support personal accountability! That means IF you choose to use contraceptives rather than abstinence, YOU PAY for your own!

  • So you would rather wag your finger like a self righteous nabob than address the issue in a sane fashion. Figured that much. Your attitude that kids are some kind of penalty is both depraved and common with your set.

    Don’t talk to me about personal responsibility. Bible thumpers are all about avoiding such things. It is for other people. Never yourselves. When as Christian messes up, they are expected grace and forgiveness. No matter what the offense. When it’s someone else, they are to be damned.

  • Trumps words won’t kill you but HIL LIARY’s unprotected E-mails, open borders which will let TERRORISTS in and her plan to import more RAPEFUGEES [ we don’t know who they are – no papers to check } will jeopardize our National security and endanger the lives of more Americans. San Bernardino and Orlando massacres are just the beginning. This is what it will be if you elect the lying and corrupt Clinton. She called Catholics bastards and cozy up to the Muslims and received millions from them..She claimed they were poor and in debt when they left the W H , now they are worth more than a hundred million dollars.Where did this money come from? She used the State Dept. – “Pay to Play” to do favors for Foreign Gov’t and accepted millions of dollars in return. ” COMMIE” of the FBI and LYNCH , the Attorney Gen. are protecting her instead of working for us. CORRUPTION at the highest level.

  • HIL LIARY has a long history of selling out to Muslim Gov’t favors in return for millions of dollars. She is responsible for the Russians owning a Uranium Plant in the US ,in exchange for millions toward their Foundation. Her staff used a HAMMER to destroy 13 of her Mobile devices and deleted thousands of her E-mails after Congress sent her a Subpoena. The FBI and the DOJ gave her staff Immunity so they can’t testify against her, .She gets away with all these Crimes while we would be rotting in prison if we did this. Just ask a soldier who took pictures of the inside of a Submarine for a souvenir – he is in prison.now. Ambassador Stevens and three other Americans died in Benghazi , for she refused to send them help, then lied to their families. Talk about Morality – this is not only IMMORAL but Criminal. People who disagree with the Clintons meet their early demise ruled as car accidents, suicide or natural causes. The Clintons have literally gotten away with MURDER.

  • You’d rather have your children, especially your daughters, look to Hillary as a role model? Sick!!!

  • And how does HIL LIARY conduct herself? She compromised our National Security by using a server whose office is in a Bathroom. They are now worth more than a hundred million dollars – where did this money come from? They loot the Foundation – only 15% goes to Charity. It gives a new meaning to “CHARITY begins at home.” She destroyed her E-mails and had her staff destroy her 13 Mobile devices with a HAMMER to hide her CRIMINAL deeds. She paid people including the mentally ill $150 dollars each to RIOT at Trump rallies. You will never know this because the despicable and bias Media like the Clinton News Network, MSLSD, NBC, NEW YORK Times ABC won’t report this.

  • Just goes to show you the prosperity Trump will bring to our country if elected!! Hillary, in her 30+ yrs in politics, has yet to produce a single job for any of us. She belongs in prison. She is a criminal and a crook. She has bragged about taking our 2nd amendment away. She has bragged that she will increase by 550% the import of tens of thousands of illegal and unvetted Muslims into our country. What are you going to do when they come for your HEAD???

  • What the hell are you doing? Trump never promised to attack civil liberties of LEGAL racial and ethnic minorities, he doesn’t attack civil liberties of women – those who have come forward three weeks before the election, are democrat stoolies paid for by the democrat party, and Trump has never attacked the civil liberties of gays. You must be a democrat, for democrats are of the party that promotes death, destruction, deceit, perversion, lying, cheating, stealing, and they are totally Godless and immoral.

    Spuddie…you are a spoodle!!!

  • There is NOTHING reprehensible about Mike Pence, NOTHING. He is a God fearing Christian who reveres the laws of God and our laws in this country. The democrats, most specifically the LGBTQ wing of the democrat party, tried to smear and denigrate this fine man.

    You DO NOT go against God’s laws and not pay dearly for it. The LGBTQ are a Godless bunch who are nothing but thugs wanting special perverted privileges and who want nothing but to undermine civilization. Have they not a clue what God did to them in Sodom and Gormorrah? Do we, the Christians in this nation, want to kowtow to these thugs who are begging for God’s Wrath to come down on us? I, for one, want nothing to do with this pox on civilization. I hate their sin and will never accept it!!!

  • So what about Hillary? What about the democrat party who has initiated the denigration of Christians in this country? Who do you think denigrates Catholics? Your answer: Hillary!!

    How about you being fair and unbiased!

  • Why on God’s green Earth would I be jealous of someone like Trump???? And that verse is out of context; try actually reading the whole Word so you know to whom it actually applies.

  • You don’t know what you’retaking about, Constitutionally or Scripturally, and I don’t have the time or inclination to endeavor to educate you on either. Plus you’re making a lying assumption! Go back to your cave!

  • Since WHEN is it society’s obligation to support ungodly behavior? Each and every person needs to understand the word NO. If a woman wants to have illicit sex and becomes pregnant, it’s her and the perpetrator who knocked her up to pay the price, not society.

    Planned Parenthood is a pox on this nation. They are in the abortion and baby body parts for sale business. They do not care for nor help women with anything else. You are delusional if you think otherwise. Besides, there are far more women’s Heath centers in this country who truly do have women’s interest at heart. They do cater to the needs of women, Planned Parenthood does not!

  • Would rather have Trump and his expertise in creating prosperity than Hillary who is not only a bonifide criminal and crook, but she is EVIL TO THE CORE!!!

  • Not a THING in the world is wrong with it! But voting for Trump will preserve only Trump; ask some of his erstwhile partners and stockholders!

  • What’s wrong with prosperity? Trump has donated millions to chartitable causes. Hillary? Hmm, I understand that her foundation that collected millions of dollars for the victims in Haiti, only 6% of that money made it to that island. The Clinton’s are selfish, self-serving frauds who are money and power hungry. The Clinton’s were given their money – Trump EARNED his!!!

  • Neither are shinning examples as leaders.
    Hillary is conniving, it’s I , me and mine, and filled with ambition.
    Trump is lecherous, without thought for consequences, non realistic and non responsible.
    Of the two Trump has proved he can make money, (and lose it all) and very egomaninical.
    Hillary at least has experience with world leaders, diplomacy, knows all the foibles of the office of President, and will listen to some advisors.
    Trump will listen to Trump!

  • Prohibiting with prosperity either; it’s how he GOT that’s wrong, didn’t “earn” it, except he TV salary. He hurt a LOT of people, business partners and stockholders alike along the way.

  • Being judgmental is not being a Christian. People do change and though Trump has his flaws, really? you’re going to throw your vote to Hillary??? She’s a murderer, a thief, a conniving and manipulative crook. She’s plenty else too. Trump pales in comparison.

  • Wow, sandraleesmith46. You assert nonfacts and then accuse Spuddie of lying.

    I’m certainly no history expert, but even I know about sodomy laws (legal until 2003); routine police raids of gay bars (leading to the Stonewall uprising in 1969); the legal “rights” of employers to fire employees just for being LGBTQ (thru the present day in 31 states); persistent judicial and societal acceptance of gaybashing, which has directly resulted in the suicides of countless people each year — including thousands of children — all victims of this unconscionable, soulless, shockingly evil bullying (thru the present day); etc., etc., ad infinitum.

    BTW, gays and lesbians couldn’t even marry the loves of their lives until last year.

    Whether you have been willfully denying these facts, or have been innocently ignorant of them — while yet somehow summoning the stupefying self-confidence to claim that, “BTW, homosexuals HAD all the same civil liberties as the rest of us as of ’64; what they’re demanding now, and getting are special protections and privileges!” — I’m sure that you now understand why Spuddie and I (so far) have challenged your misstatement of the realities faced by today’s LGBTQ population in our great American Land of Liberty.

  • Trump is a Hitler to Hildebeest’s Stalin. You really need to see who he is, not what he SAYS he is. Yes, people CAN change, but not “overnight” without repentance and a lot of Divine work, both of which Trump has consistently denied.
    BTW, I threw my vote to no one: I carefully and prayerfully considered for whom to vote; neither Trump nor Hildebeest came up on that.

  • To be honest I have been greatly disappointed in the past when I voted for someone in public office who professed to be Christian, honest and have high moral integrity only to find out that they were more out for themselves than the people…where they refused to fight the good fight for what was right and compromised at every turn because they did not want to pay the price. I noticed that Trump has been more willing to put himself on the line for what is true and right with all his moral shortcomings and all. Seems he is willing to take the blows from every side to take a stand regardless of the consequences. When was the last time you saw that in any of our so called upstanding, moral politicians? I believe Trump will do more than the rest of them…

  • Your religion has no bearing on our laws or how the rest of us live. “Ungodly behavior” covers a lot of ground which is not only perfectly legal but even obligations under our society. Religious freedom is just such a thing. Having to refrain from discrimination under penalty of law is another. Use of public funds for warfare is as ungodly as it gets and is your obligation under society. Being a Christian doesn’t mean the world revolves around you.

    Fact of the matter is, the complete uselessness of advocating abstinence is very clearly documented. You have no desire to address the issue in a sane manner. Just act holier than thou and attack poor women (who have few contraceptive/family planning choices).

    “it’s her and the perpetrator who knocked her up to pay the price, not society”

    That is just the kind of sociopathic attitude I was describing. Children are not a penalty. Advocating that they starve to death rather than use government benefits is about as malicious as you can imagine. Whatever form of Christianity you believe is truly nasty minded garbage. You have every right to believe it and I have every right to call it as I see it.

    “They are in the abortion and baby body parts for sale business”

    That is not only a flat out lie, but one proven over and over again. Your need to repeat it shows how little bible thumpers like yourself value honesty, if it means furthering your personal agenda.

    “there are far more women’s Heath centers in this country who truly do have women’s interest at heart.”

    You mean the ones that lie to women about their options and coerce them (white women only) into adoption scams? http://www.alternet.org/video/samantha-bee-takes-down-fake-abortion-clinics-deceiving-women-across-america

    Religious freedom means nobody ever has to care what your religion says on any given subject. If we ever become a theocracy then what is “Godly” or not becomes a matter for our society to care.

  • You have been saying some of the most outrageously dishonest stuff from the get go. I don’t care how you want to interpret any given version of scripture. I doubt you have a clue about the Constitution either.

  • Because I want to address a problem and you think it can go away by acting like a self righteous malicious nabob. OK.

  • And yet… “Trump has a long history of outsourcing a variety of his products and has acknowledged doing so. We know of at least 12 countries where Trump products were manufactured (China, the Netherlands, Mexico, India, Turkey, Slovenia, Honduras, Germany, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam and South Korea). Further, Trump products transited other countries through the packaging and shipping process — meaning workers in more than 12 countries contributed to getting many of Trump’s products made, packaged and delivered to the United States.”

    Gee, talking past each other is deceptively easy, isn’t it?

  • THAT is where you are very wrong and have fallen off those reality tracks. Hillary has not accomplished ANYTHING over the last 30+ yrs. except having 70+ friends and acquaintances mysteriously die/killed. Who ignored the over 200+ pleas for help by Chris Stevens, who died a very gruesome death at the hands of ISIS, who she and Obama helped come into existence by pulling out of Iraq and leaving that void to be filled by ISIS. Who lined her pockets by selling favors to our enemies around the world with her pay to play schemes for when she is president, thereby putting our sovereignty at risk. And with her absolute disdain for all Christians and those “DEPLORABLES”, and with her constant lying and conniving, let’s not forget that she doesn’t understand the basics of federal employment, too. Hillary will dismantle our constitution with more justices who will undermine our existing laws – look at Ginsberg, Sotomyor, Kagan who make laws instead of interpreting the law. I can go on and on with what is so very wrong with Hillary and her rapist husband, but let’s just leave it at that. Trump will make America great again and he knows the HOW in doing so. He will appoint righteous justices which is so very important to the freedoms of America. I do not want to live in FEMA camps under Hillary. Hillary has promised to compromise our religious freedoms, import 550% more Muslims than Obama did with the tens of thousands that have come into our country unvetted. Did you know that Obama wants to make it a federal law for the “call to prayer”? Hillary will be Obama on steroids and our enemies will have free reign in our country to undermine our freedoms. DO YOU REALLY WANT YOUR CHILDREN LIVING IN HILLARY’S AMERICA?? HILLARY WILL LISTEN TO NOBODY, it will be her way or you can take that highway to your local FEMA encampment.

    Why don’t you seek and search out the movie ‘Hillary’s America’. If you want an eye-popping grip on what a Hillary presidency will do to America, if you care at all for your children and grandchildrens future, Trump is our ONLY answer for maintaining our freedoms, pure and simple!

  • Mike Pence was so corrupt he got run out of his own state! He is a bigot, liar and a malicious SOB. The guy tried to institute religious based segregation, has kept people in prison who were proven innocent and misused public resources.

    “You DO NOT go against God’s laws and not pay dearly for it”

    Its not only my right to do so as an American living in a nation of religious freedom, I am proud to do so. I couldn’t care less what you think God’s laws are. Our laws don’t have to pay attention to such things.

    Our laws don’t have to follow your religion. Religious freedom means nobody ever has to care what you think God says nor can be compelled to. You don’t like gays? Well tough luck. They exist. They are your fellow citizens with the same rights as you. Being a Christian isn’t license to attack them. You don’t like that, deal with whatever legal and social ramifications it brings. But don’t be a whiner about it. You will not be a martyr or a victim. Just a bully facing consequences.

    Btw the sins of Sodom and Gommorah were hostility to strangers. Something you seem to have in spades. You are such a sodomite!

  • How mendacious are you? Trump’s main support comes from people who support discrimination of all stripes! He wants to make an entire religion grounds for being spied upon by law enforcement. That is fascist level nasty stuff! He attacks women physically and throws his lot in with fetus worshipers who want to attack women’s rights to make decisions concerning their own bodies.

    Trump is the perfect candidate for you. A barely restrained troglodyte who can’t even keep his composure in public at an events with scripted jokes. A man whose business acumen boils down to a big loan from his daddy and running businesses into the ground leaving investors holding the bag. Have fun.

  • So those who can’t afford to pay for contraceptives will bear kids they can’t afford.
    Or are you saying poor people don’t have a right to have sex like other people do?

  • It’s called “personal accountability”; if you can’t, or don’t want to, pay the piper, DON’T dance to the tune! It’s NO ONE else’ duty to pay for your bad choices!

  • It’s called equality, respect, empathy, humility, compassion, mercy.
    It’s called The Golden Rule, The Good Samaritan, The Publican.
    And, to many, many devout believers, it’s called Christianity.
    Christ said to give to the poor. Christ said not to add to the burdens of the poor.
    Even I know that. And I’m just an atheist who values and aspires to these ideals.

  • Then you my dear, just threw your vote away! OMG!!! How people can be sooo stupid to throw away a valuable vote!!!

  • My comment contains not one word about Hillary … pro or con. I defy you to show where, in that comment, I expressed any preference for her. Go ahead, quote me.

  • Re: “You DO NOT go against God’s laws and not pay dearly for it.”

    You probably have no idea how threatening this sounds. But it IS a threat.

  • Let’s not forget the fact that our Country is already immoral in a big way with same sex marriage and showing that on TV to kids. Not only did God destroy cities because of it, but let’s be realistic, do you know what happens when things enter the exit hole? You go around wearing diapers, and not because your bladder is weak. It’s plain wrong, and horrible that we tell kids it’s an option, it’s acceptable. Your telling kids that God screwed up with them, I mean, If your Christian. Doesn’t anyone believe in immoral spirits and such? You fight them with Jesus, nothing else. The gays need to be healed, not to suffer in sin and the skin they are in.

  • What about Hillary? At least she actually attends church and knows the hymns. The Dems don’t denigrate Christians: you folks are imagining some war against Christianity that doesn’t exist.

    You’re just all butthurt because other people are finally standing up to you for their fair share and due, for equality and equity under the law, just as the 14A guarantees to them and to you.

    You people think that being unable to abuse others anymore is an attack against you. Nobody’s walking away with anything you haven’t already had for centuries here!

    And you want to know who “denigrates” Catholics in this country? OTHER so-called CHRISTIANS! I cannot even count the number of times in my life I’ve heard some smug faker of a Christian spouting off about how Catholicism is a cult.

    Jews said the same about early Christians, too!

    HRC came up as a Methodist. Those are Evangelicals. Now, you may not agree with her evolved positions on things which came as a result of the entire purpose of college: Exposure to reality. That’s fine. I don’t agree with many, either, but it is YOU who need to be fair, unbiased and ditch the hate-segment partisanship of the lowest levels of the GOP and take a look at this nasty Trump person you want to fast-track the US and the World to disaster.

    Trump would very possibly usher in the end of EVERYTHING. Not just the country and not just peoples lives. ALL LIFE as we know it on Earth. As in a Mass Extinction Event.

    That would certainly solve the entire problem of “Whose Religion is Correct?”

    IF the US was the nation of faith that is claimed here, there is NO WAY that Trump would have gotten more than a sliver of support from the most truly disturbed people in the GOP.

    But, no. Because everyone’s faking it, and because everyone’s become so lazy, ignorant (over generations) and gullible, a charlatan like Trump can come along and, like any good grifter, come close to conning his way into the Presidency and take us all for everything we have because ALL he’s interested in is himself. Period.

    I won’t have it and if you’re even remotely sane, neither will you!

  • Sandra, I’m not surprised to bump into you here.

    Blacks, gays and other beset-upon classes of FULL CITIZEN may have unintentionally been granted, on paper, the rights to which hetero white Christian men (primarily) were accustomed, but in practice, that’s been FAR from the case. Laws mean nothing when the Lawkeepers won’t enforce them and the Lawmakers won’t REINFORCE them.

    So, we’ve come to a time when Lawkeepers (Supreme Courts) have finally reinforced equality and equity in the law for ALL residents of these United States, as the 14A ostensibly provided for in 1868!!

    A century and a half later and people are STILL fighting to be treated equally, equitably and fairly. And there’s NOTHING equal, equitable or fair about being allowed to selectively apply bigotry and discrimination. THAT was NEVER the intent of the law and it is NOT moral, ethical or just!

    What special privileges?? NOT ONE. NONE.

    And as regards marriage, NO NEW LAWS WERE WRITTEN. Some bad laws were struck out and the EXISTING law was defined more clearly under the auspices of the 14A in some cases, but NO NEW LAW WAS CREATED. Marriage is still marriage.

    Nobody took YOUR marriage or MY marriage away for theirs. Nobody downgraded hetero marriages to make way for “gay” marriages.

    All that was done was to affirm that marriage is simply marriage. Same laws, same results. Done and done. That’s not a special privilege. And the protection was there all along since 1868.

    You are simply and I do mean SIMPLY wrong, fundamentally and utterly.

    The solution to your anathema toward non-hetero marriage is to not have one yourself. That way everyone’s happy, and keep your own nose out of other people’s private affairs if they don’t affect you, and they do NOT.

    You can try to weasel your way out of this and say you weren’t talking about “gay marriage,” but between that and the idiocy of Pee-Blocking, we all know exactly what you’re talking about: Being a bigot and being pissed off that you can’t get away with it overtly without ramifications anymore.

    Grow up and get over it.

  • Trump can’t create prosperity. WE pay for his losses. Nearly a Billion Dollars so far that we’ve paid. And he’s looking like he’s going to skip on another 2/3Billion Dollars that, no doubt, he’ll pass on to us as “thanks” for smartly not electing him.

    Oh, and HRC knows how to spell “bonafide.” FFS.

  • Wow — Perfectly put, Rippie! You’re a person after my own equality-minded heart. (Except that I have no clue what “Pee-Blocking” is — but it sounds awfully painful.)

  • Immorality? Trump said words which are disgusting but Slick Willy used the oval office to have oral sex .. He also had an affair with the daughter of Vice Pres. Mondale. If the Clintons get back in the W H,. slick Willy will be in his glory for now he has all the Free time to pursue his sexual escapades since he doesn’t have to run the country. While HIL LIARY is away, WILLY will play. That famous “blue dress” should be in the Clinton Library – after all it has his DNA in it.

  • To David Gibson: All of us have sinned which includes “church” leaders, no matter which church you may name. The Bible says there is one church as in Jesus said he will build his church. With that said, I’m a Christian. It matters not that a Christian is white or pick-your-color.

    I do not accept the behaviors Trump has displayed in his multiple marriages nor his raunchy language. Neither do I accept the behaviors of Clinton in her support of abortion which is the cold blooded murder of baby human children. Nor do I support her lying. That’s enough naming of their sins. It only takes one sin to be a sinner like the rest of us and the result is the same for each one sin and person.

    I had rather not support who seems to me to be not trustworthy at any stretch. Therefore I will vote for Trump. Also I will not vote for anyone who does not support The Constitution when I have a choice.

    Either Christians should not vote or they must choose between two sinners. I am not compromising anything to vote for either. There is no other choice. Cheers! God help us! Amen?

  • Trump’s bombastic lewdness pales in comparison to Clinton’s 30+ years of lying, ineptitude and corruption. “Progressives”, the destroyers of our Christian heritage and religious liberty, have held conservatives to a very high moral bar but excuse every flaw in the mirror.

    I’m voting for the man of questionable morality against a candidate, party and policies that are unabashedly evil.

  • Meanwhile you ignore the fact Hillary has broken the law repeatedly, her foundation has served as a money laundering operation for political payoffs, her campaign hires illegals and homeless to insite violence at their competitor’s rallies and the Supreme Court judges she would nominate will further erode your religious freedom while forcing your daughter’s school to allow boys into the girls’ locker room because he identifies as a girl for the day.

    Bill Clinton used his position as governor to sexually assault women. He had state troopers procure women for his enjoyment. His wife, the nominee lead the further destruction of those women when he ran for President. His behavior continues in the Oval Office and afterward.

    How can you compare any unproven accusation against Trump to the proven and documented evils of the Clintons?!?! Our Founding Fathers weren’t pure and even my favorite Presidents had failures – but they believed in the ideal of liberty and Biblical truth as the foundation for our constitution of civil government. Clinton and the Democrat party hate that heritage.

  • Nope. Its just largely exaggerated due to the complete lack of legal actions taken against her in any substantial fashion after 20 years in public service.

    What you have is a lot of accusations and no substance behind it. This is demonstrated by bringing up Bill’s infidelity. As if it were Hillary’s actions by association. Whereas it is common for the wives of Bible Thumper sexual abusers to be seen as victims and proud to stand by their husbands, you choose to tar and feather her for the same actions.

    Hillary is not the ideal presidential candidate, but she at least understands the system, understands the issues and can’t be driven to tantrum with online criticism.

    As for Trump, he is unsuitable for any kind of public office. Not worthy of being elected a scoutmaster or co-op board member. The man chooses to stay ignorant of issues, ignores his own advisers, and has no sense of propriety either in public or dealing with others. he has used slave labor in his enterprises, engaged in discrimination, defrauded investors, stiffed contractors and weaseled out of many lawsuits for sexual misconduct (which unlike other lawsuits he settles quietly rather than drag them out as the usual tactic)

    ” they believed in the ideal of liberty and Biblical truth as the foundation for our constitution of civil government. ”

    What a load of BS. You cannot point to one aspect of our laws or Constitution which reflect anything uniquely Biblical. What you are really saying is you want special privileges for being a Christian.

  • Canada had marriage equality for about a decade. Still there. Many states had it long before the entire nation. God has not wiped them off the map. You are just having a hissy fit and are hoping God will make you feel better about being a bigot.

  • Thank you so much.

    I just didn’t have the patience to bring all that up. Sandraleesmith46’s post just annoyed me too much when I read it.

  • So you are going after Hillary for what her husband did. Yet she stood by her man like a good Christian wife. Just as the fundies say a wife should do after their husband performs some kind of sexual impropriety.

    Donald Trump himself is a serial adulterer, serial sexual predator and was open about such activities to the point of bragging about them. Yet you simply handwave them.

    You can take any talk of morality and blow it out your posterior.

  • “And how does HIL LIARY conduct herself?”

    She stood by her husband even though it was clear he cheated on her.

    She pays her taxes

    There is zero evidence the Clinton Foundation ever used money for personal affairs of the Clintons. (Unlike the Trump Slush Fund Foundation)

    She has never been sued for fraud or refusing to honor contractual obligations.

    She doesn’t go into temper tantrums in public when cornered on issues.

    The best thing is not one thing you have mentioned has been demonstrated as true. You undoubtedly can point to rumors, but you ultimately have nothing. Either that means Hillary is being unfairly accused or she is expertly skilled at avoiding prosecution. Either way we are talking about someone with a level of competence that is so far above her opponent, it must be applauded.

  • As in the NC (and other states’) Bathroom Bills.

    They just wanna pee!! It takes pervs to think up what’s pervy. And all the pervy thought in America seems to be coming from the so-called “Religious-Right Christians.”

  • Things happen. You “compassionate, caring Christians” only make things worse.

    What’s done is done. It’s “God’s Will” when someone dies in an accident or wreck. Why is not “God’s Will” when A NEW LIFE IS BROUGHT INTO THE WORLD???

    You people CLAIM to be pro-life but you won’t make sure that everyone else gets the support they need to actually ACT in pro-life ways. And you people aren’t pro-life any more than the Left is.

    Until you people stand adamantly and absolutely against abortion AND the death penalty, I assure you, you’re ALL full of crap.

    People get pregnant. And according to some of you Christians, Catholics in particular, unless you’re a NUN in a HIGH RAPE PARISH or MISSION, you aren’t allowed birth control!!

    THAT IS BULLCRAP. So, acting to prevent pregnancy is no good but then you won’t come to the aide of young or poor or resourceless mothers when they get pregnant?

    And “shouldn’t be pregnant?” Who is to determine that? Do they have to ask YOU for permission??

    You pull this crap on the other sites I bump into you: Your arrogant ideas of “Freedom through Control” are sickening!

    Killing babies at their most defenseless is wrong and I oppose that vehemently, as you well know from past arguments about this elsewhere, but there MUST BE AN EFFORT ON THE FLIP SIDE TO MAKE THAT WORK.

    YOU do not get to decide when someone “should” be pregnant!!

  • So, we’re not all in this thing together? You don’t want to live in society? Fine. Leave. Leave the support of a nation, this or any other one.

    Guatemala will leave you to live or die for the most part. Honduras will absolutely leave you alone to live, die, murder, be murdered, whatever floats your boat.

    GTFO of the US. We don’t need your type here.

  • “God” has nothing to do with it. If you want to willingly be a member of a religion, you likely should follow its tenets. For YOURSELF. You cannot inflict them on others.

    What if the Christ Scientists were in charge and decided to shut down all hospitals and just open prayer healing centers? Would that be okay to you as a non-practitioner of their faith?

    OF COURSE NOT!!!

    Even Santeria practitioners believe in surgery and whatever medicines, Western or otherwise, will work.

    PP are not “in the baby body parts for sale business.” Because they spend money to procure them as part of their abattoir services, they are reimbursed for providing those materials. I find it reprehensible, but I won’t stoop to your level and lie about it.

    PP do GREAT work other than abortions, and for millions of women, their kids and even their partners, are the ONLY primary care they have access to using, and states like “compassionate” Mike Pence’s Indiana and the usual suspect, La Republica de Tejas, are shutting them down where they’re most needed, forcing women to travel sometimes hundreds of miles for very basic care.

    PP facilities are often the only Emergent Care clinics in a region. They will serve very poor communities. You, apparently, would choose not to do so.

    Back when I was newly married and we were struggling, like so many were in the early Reagan Bust (hardly a boom unless you were a greedy, lying SonofaB), we lived in a poor city and PP or the ER of the charity hospital were our Primary Care options, for her especially. We went there because they did MUCH more than write scripts for the Pill. And back then, young people had NO INSURANCE.

    They aren’t the only Women’s Healthcare centers, but they’re the most widespread and practiced.

    Unfortunately, because they can’t pay their bills without abortion, and because abortion is tragically legal, it’s a key part of their services and when laws like the TX limitations are put in place, clinics close, harming MILLIONS of women and their families and creating the very problem that PP, as in PLANNED Parenthood, are intended to prevent from happening.

    So, if I think you’re full of it and utterly devoid of compassion, you have only your own words to blame for that.

    “Illicit” sex. What a maroon.

  • And if personal accountability means going to the local PP, more scarce though they may be, to get a script and refills for the Pill, that’s not acceptable to you?

    Married women can’t enjoy their husbands without your permission??

    And women have to submit to becoming chattel to enjoy their partners??

    You are a troglodyte.

  • When men take Trump as their example and start grabbing your wife’s crotch without permission, your daughter’s crotch, your mother’s crotch, your sister’s crotch, your pastor’s crotch, your realtor’s crotch, your kids’ teacher’s crotches, you think back at this idiotic comment and then you can say “Oh, whoops.”

  • If that’s all you know about The Schmuck a l’Orange’s past, you’re sorely underinformed.

    He’s a predatory, misogynistic, racist, classist, lying bigot who abuses many laws, including eminent-domain, for his personal enrichment, putting nearly a billion dollars of personal bad gambles on US to pay off who went to the effort SIX TIMES to avoid serving the nation even though he thrived in the very tough NY Military Academy for several years.

    ALL his “good fortune” comes at the cost of the poor fortune of the entire population of the US.

    Yeah, his 50+ years of abuse, sexism and racism is no big deal.

    And he’s EASILY as liberal as HRC is.

    Trump doesn’t have questionable moral fiber. There is NO QUESTION: He is an IMMORAL, GREEDY HATER who appeals to the lowest possible thinkers, if that’s even applicable to his core followers.

    And you are, apparently, one of those maroons, undereducated and deplorable!

  • He has openly and ON THE RECORD lusted after TEN YEAR OLD GIRLS, and even Paris HIlton when she was only ELEVEN years old!

    And where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire. I would not doubt it at all if a history of his abusing little Tweens and preteens was to emerge.

    The man is a selfish, hateful predatory bigot. Period.

  • I see you didn’t mention that he stiffed the American taxpayer with over $3/4BILLION in his personal bad gambling losses (those stupid hotels and casinos).

    And he’s working on his next $2/3Billion in losses now.

    Business gambling losses should never be deductible. Once you earn a dollar and pay tax on it, it’s yours to spend or lose as you choose and that’s all on YOU.

    You don’t get a do-over with taxpayer money. Nobody is investing MY cash in a damn casino!!

  • He hasn’t donated millions to anything. If he tithed and we could see that history, I’d think differently.

    But we can’t see that because he won’t release his taxes. Why? BECAUSE HE’S A LIAR AND A FRAUD!!

  • I didn’t line it out, no; he’s stiffed people all over the place, and not just in his casinos. I had heard things for some years, in the ’60s and ’70s, but when I saw how he dealt with the Arcosanti Mall in Phoenix, in the ’80s, that was IT for Trump with me; I wouldn’t trust him as dog catcher, let alone POTUS! But all this is public record and has been splashed all over the media for over 4 decades, and for people to NOT know it is inexcusable!

  • Why is it your or my job to pay for someone else’ bad behavior? That’s what personal accountability is; YOU pay for your own, and so do I. Women have had the ability to say no since they were 2 years old; they can still use it!

  • You cannot equate abortion to the death penalty; the criminal gets a lawyer, appeals etc. WHERE is that for an entirely innocent baby who committed NO crime; his PARENTS did it!

  • WRONG: claiming as “rights” things that are PRIVILEGES is special rights and protections!

  • No; I didn’t “throw my vote away”: I honored Yhwh God in my choice; however, I agree there are a lot of foolish people out there, throwing votes away on a MAN, instead of standing with our Creator, and allowing HIS move among us, and, sadly, you appear to be one of them.

  • Sir, you have taken those scriptures out of their full context and assumed you understand them. Yhwh God firmly taught against fornication, adultery, and ALL other sexual context outside the marriage of 1 man to 1 woman; so any such activity is neither blessed not protected by His Word. Second, providing for those who can, but don’t, provide for themselves and their families, is also against His Word and ways. You misunderstand to whom, and for what, Jesus was speaking in those instances.

  • Thanks, Rippie.
    “Wanna pee? Let us see! We’re the Religious Right!”
    (A public service message from the Official Genital Checkers℠ of North Carolina.)

  • So rules the Big-Wig Pro Tem on civil rights, freedoms, privileges, and protections.
    Time’s up — now it’s our turn to be the Big-Wig, and your turn to be the Pee-On.
    Do I understand the rules of the game?

  • This is the U.S., not heaven. Your freely chosen religious beliefs don’t bind others, just as their freely chosen religious beliefs don’t bind you. Or do you disagree?

    As for God, His Son showed by his example just how important it is to spend your time condemning the sex lives of strangers. Yep… it’s exactly that important to Jesus. That’s why, when he described your obligations to the poor, he famously commanded, “Thou shalt not help ’em if they’re having sex. No compassion, no mercy. Let them eat ‘personal accountability’.” Or do you disagree?

    Lastly, regarding “providing for those who can, but don’t, provide for themselves”, I wonder if you’re thinking about Paul’s declaration in II Thessalonians 3:10 (NIV), “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”:

    Do you realize that Paul was merely reciting a rule for his missionaries? He was reminding his Thessalonian disciples that, after all, he had worked hard to ensure that he “would not be a burden” to them; and he wanted his new representatives to similarly earn their keep when they worked with strangers — not impose their own Christian burden on the very strangers they’re supposed to serve!

    Paul’s rule hardly sounds like one that Jesus would palm off on the poor, or the disabled, or the elderly, or anyone else who must depend on the blessed for help. Or do you disagree?

  • One of those, I see, who believe Jesus was all about “feel good” emotions. He was FAR more concerned with your soul than your feelings; and ALL forms of SIN, sexual and otherwise! I’m VERY aware this isn’t heaven, or even His millennial kingdom, as yet. No repentance, no salvation, and that means ALL sins, so yes, we need to be concerned about them.
    As for Paul, that was to ALL, not only his missionaries, and he was paraphrasing Solomon and Moses, when he said it. But it goes back to Genesis, in fact. Jesus would NEVER approve “birth control” let alone abortion, so trying to apply His Words to that is a fallacy all the way around: “be fruitful and multiply” wasn’t a suggestion, AND it was never rescinded! Further, He has a SERIOUS “gripe” with peoples who practice child sacrifice.
    interesting Jesus it s ou’re following, but I am sure it’s NOT the Jesus presented in the Bible.

  • What you call “feel good” emotions, I call “how we treat each other”. That matters to me more than anything else on Earth.

    I notice you overlooked the part about “Your freely chosen religious beliefs don’t bind others, just as their freely chosen religious beliefs don’t bind you.”

    I value Equality, Empathy, Respect (as in respecting other people’s personal beliefs, bodies, bedrooms, and business [as in “Mind Your Own”], along with their rights, freedoms, legal acts, and private choices); and Familiarity (“Getting to Know You” and collaborating on finding and applying win-win solutions instead of idly dwelling on other people’s sex lives and self-righteously making up stories about strangers and mistreating them accordingly).

    When people disagree on beliefs (e.g., you believe in a God and I believe in no God), that’s easy: all we have to do is respect each others’ personal, spiritual, existential boundaries.

    But when people disagree on values (e.g., you believe that imposing your beliefs on others is moral, but imposing their beliefs on you is immoral; and I believe that imposing spiritual/existential beliefs on others is immoral, period), then the best we can do is to agree to disagree — and the worst, well… in event of Armageddon, you’ll find me defending any Respecters against all Trespassers.

    However, I remain hopeful that you will consider how often and how emphatically Jesus spoke of humility, compassion, mercy, judging others, and throwing stones. These are Jesus’s words, not mine, and this is my last reply to you. I wish you well.

  • Thank you so much.

    I just didn’t have the patience to bring all that up. BtBrim611’s post just annoyed me too much when I read it.

    Thanks for the boilerplate, Spuddie — and you’re welcome.😉

  • I grew up half in NC and half in NYC. By the 70s, I was already hearing plenty about this obnoxious young upstart and seeing him on TV as the face of a “new tomorrow where anything is possible” and garbage like that. And then Reagan came along and all the sense of community and shared obligation and responsibility that the NY Military Academy tried to put in him while he was scamming all his fellow cadets (!) went out the window and it was Funsville with other people’s money.

    I’m VERY familiar with the brilliant and rather romantic Libertarian idea of the Arcosanti Settlement experiment. Saw Prof. Soleri when he guest lectured (he liked MIT) or on TV or film whenever I could and still have all his original books, which I’ve had since the mid seventies when I was first exposed to his simple but vast take on the direction of humanity.

    I’m not familiar with Trump and a mall plan at Arcosanti. I know there is a shopping mall minutes away, which is sort of tragic and undermines a fundamental aspect of the project, and I appreciate that the Phoenix of the 80s was a city on the sprawl, disgustingly spreading sideways like American fatazzes do.

    Perhaps the abuse of eminent domain in CT in order to build a commercial project (illegal abuse of E.D.) would be up your alley. That was back decades ago, too.

    I already intensely disliked his showboating ways by the late 70s, but by the time Reaganomics and its poisonous claws had taken ahold of him and let him do what he did, which I gather is what you want to tell me about at Arcosanti, but he has zero regard for anyone who isn’t him or his blood. And that includes Melania, after he threw her under the bus at the Alfred E. Smith roast the other night.

    I hope she leaves him the day after the election and sues him for half of what he claims he has, whether he has it or not! He treats her like crap!

    But you need to understand that you and I deal with audiences of people who refuse to hear anything that might undermine their precious and untouchable biases and prejudices.

    And so, somehow, nasty as she is, HRC is worse to women. Somehow, she’s a more predatory business entity. Somehow she’s done more bad to the environment (though that should appeal to most of the Trumpian slackjaws). You can see how very easily this could drag out.

    People read your prodigious output. Many, if not most are slackjawed, undereducated and intentionally ignorant. You can actually teach them something if you stick to actual facts ONLY, not the propaganda garbage, and then see if any actually try to use their heads for something other than a battering ram.

    Sometimes, surprises ensue.

  • I ask again… Married women are not to enjoy their husbands without your permission? You’d rather pay for 18+ years of raising the child? We know you won’t pay for an abortion, and I will fight HRC tooth and nail to make sure it STAYS that way, but if YOU chose not to use contraception in your life, that’s YOUR decision. You may NOT impose that upon others and it’s killing NOBODY and harming NOBODY except your easily offended thin skin. I suspect you’re old enough to get over it.

    And since when does saying “no” work? I KNOW you read the papers. Our best and brightest darling buds rape our daughters in college, in the finest prep schools, makes no difference. 1/3 of college girls are raped and 2/3 deal with some form of sexual assault.

    “No.”

    That’s pathetic.

  • Oh, come on now. You know I just hit you where you live. You don’t want to lift a finger or pay a penny for anyone other than yourself. There’s no mystery to you.

  • Deut. 32:35, Romans 12:19 and all the other references you no doubt know. I won’t be pedantic about it.

    Also, the position is pro-life. Not pro-cute-life.

    Life is life is life. We are all part of the same Life, regardless if you believe in the Creation or Evolution. We ALL spring from ONE original Life.

    Either you are pro-life or you are not. If you support the DP, you are not. If you support abortion, you are not. Very simple. If you support any means of taking life “legally” or as a technicality, you are not.

    It is the place of government and society to stand between Life and harm. I realize you’re anti-society but we live in one and that’s one of the things that societies provide, supposedly: Protection from being killed. A person in prison is vulnerable, captive and unable to defend him or herself from violence. It doesn’t matter how he or she got there. If you’re a Christian, you MUST be anti-DP. Jesus struck the Old Covenant void except for the Commandments. You cannot pick and choose.

    You are either truly pro-life or you are like the vast majority of Americans: a liar.

  • I see. So you would like to take the vote away from blacks and women again and from non-land-owners. You would like to decide who can partake of the “privilege” of getting married (certainly no gays or lesbians or mixed couples, oh now, not by race, color or religion!) and you’d like to decide, when, on the spot, if someone is “worthy” of taking a pee?

    What you seem to utterly miss is that by letting you women-folk vote, it didn’t take the vote away from us white men. And by letting the black-folk vote, it didn’t take away the vote away from us white men. Hell, next thing you know, black women will want to vote! GAY black women! Whatever will we do?

    We’ll all continue to vote, because it’s our RIGHT to vote. And to PEE where we can pee without being beaten to death. That’s the “choice” of “privilege” you’re providing.

    And that’s why it has to be a LAW that it’s a RIGHT to pee where you gotta pee. Frankly, perhaps if restrooms were not gender segregated, we’d have much LESS sexual violence in our extremely violent society.

    And people like Trump wouldn’t reference HRC going to the restroom to take a pee as “disgusting” and “I don’t know what she’s doing in there.” That sort of ignorance is avoidable and preventable… because of RIGHTS.

  • Apparently, some people think that peeing is a privilege. I wonder how they’d enjoy their crotch-checks. A lot of old gals look pretty manly, even butch, no matter what floats their boats. Check ’em ALL!

    Unbelievable.

  • How does a Person in Public service accumulate over a hundred million dollars in a few years? The latest is 12 million dollars to be paid by the Moroccan Gov’t. if she lends her presence and give a speech there.. WIKILEAKS is putting out all these Criminal offenses everyday but of course the ENEMEDIA who are in collusion with the Clintons won’t publish this. She paid people including the mentally ill $150 dollars each to riot at Trump rallies.There are so much evidence out there but the FBI and the DOJ are in collusion with her. A four star Gen. is facing trial now and could get five years for putting out one classified information – she puts out thousands by using unprotected server then deletes over thirty thousand E-mails and HAMMER out her mobile devices to hide her crimes. Four Americans were killed in Benghazi for she refused to send them help, lied to the families and says – “What difference does it make?” And you applaud this?

  • Find me a single politician of any renown who avoids making money buy speaking fees? I never saw the same criticism leveled at any of the other politicians who ran against Trump in the GOP primary, even though they ALL made millions of dollars doing that. Pretty much everyone in and out of power plays the speaking tour circuit. (Would you rather they be making money by being peddling influence?)

    Again, not one accusation about Clinton in the last 20+ years was able to rise to the level of a court action either criminal or civil. What you don’t realize is that you are actually pointing to Clinton’s skills here. Either the charges were really badly supported or Clinton has mad skills as a politician in avoiding such proceedings. So in one way or another shows a level of professional competence that is nowhere to be seen by Trump.

    In comparison, one always has to wonder whether Trump has more suits in his closet or Federal Court. He is always getting into trouble in one form or another and terrible at keeping it out of official proceedings.

    “She paid people including the mentally ill $150 dollars each to riot at Trump rallies.”

    This is just too silly to take seriously without some serious citation to a reliable source there.

    “There are so much evidence out there but the FBI and the DOJ are in collusion with her.”

    When in doubt, its not that you have no proof, or are making this junk up, its that the system is rigged. That is the latest Trumpism these days right? 🙂

  • You are the epitome of the blindered modern “know-nothing” voter.

    What you said, at great length, is that since Trump wasn’t yet a politician, his acts, which in many jurisdictions are felony sexual assault, even rape, really don’t matter because he didn’t embarrass YOU.

    Well, sorry but NOT sorry! A sexual predator who views women as toys to behold and toss aside, who belittles them over and over through many decades since his youth, who lusts after little kids OPENLY and TO MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILIES is NOT welcome in my White House or in my OWN house at any time for any reason whatsoever!!

    That you seem to think “Well, those sexual assaults were then and this is now” shows what a deviant, sick pervert you are.

    I don’t support HRC. I’ve worked actively against her since the 90s when it became clear that she was the balls of the Clinton operation. I don’t like her. I don’t trust her and you have to listen VERY closely to her to believe the parts that are truthful she peppers JUST enough to flavor her bulloney.

    But Billy Bush and that tape, Howard Stern and his MANY recordings of Trump being a misogyinst pig, which I must assume that you are, too, were not fabricated now and then placed into history by mysterious time-traveling Dems-in-Black. That’s as ridiculous as the similar garbage you whining losers put forward about Obama’s BC.

    Oh, and exactly who was in the middle of THAT fiasco of lies and propaganda?? Could it be the Schmuck a l’Orange??

    Trump is a predator. He and HRC are both liars. A president HAS to be a liar. That’s part of the job. If a president can’t bluff his or her way through card games, I don’t want them in the Oval Office.

    Both of them can bluff and bluster their way into making things happen. Great.

    One’s husband couldn’t reliably keep it in his pants. Look, they met because he kept ogling her at college… like kids do. But SHE did the difficult thing and stood by him through a horrifically public process of humiliation and dissection of their past, including a partial impeachment.

    Trump, on the other hand, spent decades with 3 wives or parading a different model or actress or other ingenue on his arm in between them. It’s likely he’s screwed hundreds of women.

    And then there are the obviously disrespectful comments over DECADES and his assaults on women over DECADES. The only thing missing is the drugs that Cosby used on HIS victims!!

    Trump is a predator with regard to non-rich people, too. He doesn’t pay his contractors and vendors. WE DO. When he defaults on his loans, as he’s done as predicate to his SIX bankruptcies, who do you think eats that money?

    WE DO. WE have been paying his OVER $3/4BILLION write-off due to stupid gambling, er, “investments” he was TOLD were stupid. And he is smug about abusing the American taxpayer because the tax codes have created the tools to do so! He laughs in our faces as we pay HIS bills and he does NOT!

    Right now he’s about $2/3BILLION in debt. For a guy worth “So many billions, like you wouldn’t believe, [he’s] so rich,” he sure does have a hard time paying down his debts.

    Believe you me, this will be the NEXT 15 years worth of pass-off to the taxpayers. He’s never paying those debts. He still hasn’t paid those adorable USA Freedom Kids, and that’s a BUSINESS, not a charity!! Those buses don’t repair and fuel themselves and those costumes don’t just float down from the sky for free!!

    This is the ayhole you WANT to vote for in two weeks? A sexual predator? A business predator? An abuser of the average little guy, forcing hard working struggling ordinary people to pay HIS BAD DEBTS??? To CHILDREN???

    And what about his comments, on video, promising horrific violence to any foreign entity that doesn’t just knuckle under to his demands? “Bomb the schidt out of them??” And asking 3 times in ONE HOUR in his FIRST National Security briefing about using nukes???

    Yeah, you cast that vote. I hope you can sleep at night. I’ll do anything I can or have to in order to ensure he NEVER enters the Oval Office for ANY reasons whatsoever!!

    Trump will make Stalin and Hitler look like romper-room practice-time.

    Practice saluting to Donito Trumpolini, il Duce d’America!!

  • Trump couldn’t even make his own businesses great
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2016/10/23/trumps-business-credit-is-as-bad-as-you-would-expect/#disqus_thread

    “The business credit company Nav decided to look up the credit score for the Trump Organization and it’s pretty much exactly what I would expect for a company that has declared bankruptcy and stiffed creditors repeatedly. Trump’s company gets 19 out of 100.”

    This score ranges from 1 to 100. The higher the score, the better. Lenders may be more cautious when considering lending to the Trump Organization because it falls under a medium to high-risk category, and they will likely look into what credit factors are bringing down the score before they decide if the business is a viable borrower.”

    Trump is a deadbeat who owes a lot of money to international interests which run counter to yours or anyone who works for a living.
    ..
    And you are either a post-factual deplorable or a Poe’s Law poster.

    “I do not want to live in FEMA camps under Hillary.”

    Seriously, there are people who believe that is a thing? The only time I ever see that is in jokes told to paranoid conservatives.

ADVERTISEMENTs