Dutch far right Party for Freedom (PVV) leader Geert Wilders campaigns for the 2017 Dutch election in Spijkenisse, a suburb of Rotterdam, Netherlands, on Feb. 18, 2017. Photo courtesy of Reuters/Michael Kooren

Would-be Dutch prime minister: Islam threatens our way of life

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (USA Today) This country's version of Donald Trump — but with more extreme anti-immigration and anti-Islam views — is counting on voters to give his right-wing party a chance next month to implement its controversial vision.

"Dutch values are based on Christianity, on Judaism, on humanism. Islam and freedom are not compatible," populist politician Geert Wilders, 53, said in an interview with USA Today. "You see it in almost every country where it dominates. There is a total lack of freedom, civil society, rule of law, middle class; journalists, gays, apostates — they are all in trouble in those places. And we import it."

Wilders wants to close all mosques, ban the Quran and seal the nation's borders to asylum seekers and immigrants from Islamic countries to prevent the spread of Islam.

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President Trump wants a temporary halt in immigration from seven majority-Muslim nations, but he says his goal is to prevent terrorists from entering the United States.

Many Dutch voters find Wilders’ views repugnant, and he was convicted in December of inciting discrimination through hate speech. Yet his Party for Freedom is projected by polls to come in first in the March 15 national election, a closely watched test of populism’s growing spread in Europe after Trump’s upset victory in the United States and Britain’s vote to leave the European Union last year.

Under the Netherlands’ multiparty system, coming in first doesn’t guarantee that Wilders will get to wield power. He would be forced to form a governing coalition with other parties, most of which have ruled out doing that. Plus his lead is narrowing as incumbent Prime Minister Mark Rutte has wooed the Dutch nationalist vote by shifting rightward.

Still, Wilders predicts a populist wave against free-flowing immigration and rules set by the European Union will continue to wash over Europe whether he prevails or not.

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"Even if I lose this election, the genie will not go back in the bottle again," he said. "People are fed up with the combination of mass immigration, Islamization and austerity measures that require us to cut pensions and support for health care and the elderly while giving (debt bailout) money to Greece and the euro zone.

"People are not satisfied. They feel misrepresented," he continued. "The process of a ‘patriotic spring’ won’t be stopped."

Wilders believes his nation of 17 million — more than a fifth with a foreign background — has for too long tolerated high levels of immigration without demanding cultural assimilation. He calls Islam an ideology that poses an existential threat to core European values.

"For a long time, our society has been afraid to say, ‘No, this is our Dutch culture, we don’t treat women like that,’ and anyone who did was labeled a racist or bigot or hate-monger, and they are not," Wilders said. "They just believe we should be more proud of who we are."

Wilders recently described Moroccan immigrants as "scum" who make the streets of the Netherlands unsafe. His conviction for hate speech was for leading a chant of "fewer, fewer" against Moroccans. Wilders has also compared the Quran to "Mein Kampf," Hitler’s autobiography.

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"On Islam, it is true that I am tough. Perhaps tougher than I should be if my only aim was to get votes," Wilders said. "But I really believe in what I say, that the Islamic ideology is this huge threat."

Wilders' harsh views on Islam have placed him on al-Qaida, Taliban and Islamic State assassination lists for more than a decade. He wears a bulletproof vest in public, has an elaborate security detail and moves with his wife between safe houses.

In 2002, Dutch  politician Pim Fortuyn was murdered for his outspoken anti-Islam views. Two years later, Theo van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker, was killed by a Dutch-Moroccan Muslim for a short film he made that was critical of Islam’s treatment of women.

"I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I can’t even go on a spontaneous walk or to a restaurant without armored cars and police, but there is no alternative," Wilders said. "If I stop or moderate my voice, people who use or threaten violence against democracies would win. I will never let them win."

Daniel Pipes, president of the Middle East Forum, a conservative think tank that has helped fund some of Wilders’ legal fees, said he is the most important politician in Europe.

"If he wins this election he will take his ideas even further," said Pipes, who criticized Wilders for a "superficial" understanding of Islam. "He sees all of Islam as the problem; I see an extreme variant of Islam as the problem."

Pamela Geller, a conservative commentator and political activist who shares Wilders' anti-Islamic views, said he "will make one of the best prime ministers the Netherlands has ever had."

Geller invited Wilders two years ago to an exhibit in Garland, Texas, featuring cartoons of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad. While they were there, the exhibit was attacked by two gunmen with links to the Islamic State. The gunmen were killed by police.

Other European populist politicians who share Wilders' enmity for the 28-nation European Union are critical of his anti-Islam rhetoric. "I believe in religious tolerance and I don’t think that going to war with Islam is the right approach," said Nigel Farage, the former leader of a British anti-immigration party that helped engineer Brexit.

Lars Rensmann, a professor of European politics at the University of Groningen, said many Wilders backers are highly educated and successful, and not just poor, rural or disenfranchised groups associated with "globalization’s losers."

"Wilders has set himself up as the defender of liberalism from Islamic immigrants who he claims want (to) take away the Netherlands’ tolerant approach" to same-sex marriage, civil rights, euthanasia and other liberal policies, Rensmann said.

Comments

  1. Nothing tells people more about their appreciation for democracy and freedom than calling for an entire religion to be considered illegal. 🙂

  2. Islam does the damage to itself with ISIS, Al Quaida, Hamas, Boko Haram, Taliban and the rest of the gang.

  3. Much like Christianity damages itself with fundamentalists who attack religious freedoms of others, promote discrimination, and frequently proof-text scriptures for their own personal agendas.

    Who do I know like that? Hmmm

  4. What is it with the fascistic demagogues and the freakish hair?

  5. I would say that you don’t know what you are talking about. Sometimes you get things right on, sometimes you are as far off, as the above opinion.

  6. He received his first death threat in 2003 and these days he’s under constant police protection. There is no freedom of speech in most of Islam. It’s apparently somewhat limited in the Netherlands.

  7. True but if I had my choice I would prefer to deal with fundamentalist Christians rather than fundamentalist Muslims.

  8. Its only because we disarmed the Christians ones here. If there was political capital to be made by dictators in arming Christian Fundamentalists, it would be done.

  9. Even in Canada politicians receive death threats. And the reasons vary from crossing the floor to join another political party to introducing a motion to look at discrimination including Islamophobia. Female politicians seem to bear more than their fair share of death threats. And yes, some of them receive a level of police protection.

    And there is a reason that Presidents and other country’s political leaders have Security Service (type) details.

  10. You haven’t met my well-armed fundamentalist neighbors! Western society evolved and thus did Christianity. If I lived in the 16th century I would probably take my chances with the Muslims.

    Yes there are currently armed Christian terrorist groups and there is always a possibility of more.

  11. You have it reversed. The outliers – ISIS et al – damage Islam.

  12. You have governments pumping petrodollars into Islamicism. It is used as a political tool to wipe out democratic/moderate elements in those countries. Its a political tool for extending national influence (as seen in the proxy war in Syria and Yemen)

    Its telling that in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia there are thousands of Islamicist madrassas but no free newspapers. Obviously the autocratic governments consider one more useful than the other.

  13. If this were true then where is the “true” voice of Islam coming out to condemn the outliers? If there is such a moderate voice in Islam they make up a statistical zero probably fearing for their own lives. Where are the moderate Muslim clerics coming out against the outliers? Staying silent is passive endorsement by moderate Islam of their “outlier” movements which leaves the non Islamic world (or more strictly the non-sunni world) bearing the brunt of all the hate and violence of these extremists. That just isn’t fair.
    If all was well with an Islamic ideology or worldview why are there so many Muslim immigrants fleeing from Islamic countries?

  14. “If this were true then where is the “true” voice of Islam coming out to condemn the outliers?”

    In places where there is freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The US mostly and Western Europe. It is a defamatory fiction that Muslims do not criticize extremists. They do it all the time and are well documented in our media. The silence you complain about does not exist. In fact American Muslims are probably the most vociferous opponents to the extremists out there.

    “If all was well with an Islamic ideology or worldview why are there so many Muslim immigrants fleeing from Islamic countries?”

    Most of them are dictatorships. Many of them are embroiled in war. Like most of post colonial developing world. Interestingly Islamicism is far more recent than most would care to admit to. Most of those countries were or are secular nationalists up until the end of the cold war.

  15. People who talk of banning entire religions aren’t really fans of fee speech either. It’s an extremist thing.

  16. Please! His life is under a real threat because of his outspoken against Islam as is that Ayaan Hirsi Ali. They got pit van Gogh.

  17. I find Wilders reprehensible. I also dislike the Dutch and German restrictions on free speech. I’m not too please with people killing someone because their speech offends someone’s religion.

  18. I’m a nice middle aged liberal lady, and I have no problem if gentlemen wish to wear a little makeup to themselves look better. (Note: everyone should wear makeup on TV, the camera and lighting distorts, and you’re just trying to look not-ghastly under lights.) But I find the way he wears makeup bizarre. He wears makeup all the time. Not just for TV. He paints himself some weird shade of orange, every day. And, he does it badly. We can see the line between the orange paint and his white skin at his jaw, or under his hairline when the breeze blows his hair up, and it looks much worse than if he hadn’t done it at all. I’m incredibly pale white, and I’m neither proud nor ashamed of it. It’s just the way I look. I know being “tan” is popular, but I can’t get “tan”. I’ll never be tan. I go in the sun, and I go from pale white to sunstroke. What’s wrong with just looking how you look? A little makeup, sure, just to even things out, but painting yourself an entirely different color? Honestly, I don’t get it. I find it freakish, and deeply insecure.

  19. Then you must say the same about the extreme Christian right wing. I like to think I’m a reasonable person, and I can make a distinction between the vast majority of ordinary law-abiding Christians, and those extremist nut jobs who do the identical things that all extremists do – blow people up, shoot up places where people they don’t like gather, send death threats, and just make things terrible for everyone else. And the same for radical Islamists. Let us decry religious extremism, in all its forms. At the end of the day, all their behavior is identical. Violent, fundamental, and driven by warped religious ideologies. Over Presidents Day weekend, ten American Jewish community centers received bomb threats. Who did it? I have no idea. Was it a radical Islamist? Or a white Christian Nationalist? Let’s be honest, both are likely possibilities.

  20. Without reference to specifics whether in the Netherlands, or here at home, or anywhere, I think an important point is the question of assimilation. I have no idea what the rate of non-assimilation is in America, but if we abandon the concept of the melting pot (while making allowances for cultural individuation) we will become ripe and ready for the balkanization of our nation. One of things that drove the success of immigrants to the U.S. in decades past was that, without forsaking their cultural heritages, they wanted to and successfully became Americans first and foremost. I’m not sure that is presently true of all those that wish to reach our shores.

  21. If I were Dutch, I would vote Party for Freedom every election since the party first came into existence, but sadly I’m an American.

    What stats do the liberal minded defenders of Muslims have to share defending their points? In fact the stats are with the critics, take the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Belgium or even any other Western country, Muslims are by several magnitudes way more likely to be Anti-Semitic, homophobic, sexist, anti-apostate, anti-infidel than the any other group in the societies they live in. The gradual subversion of liberal democracy into Islamic democracy is happening, but the people on the left want to keep everyone’s heads in the sand about it. Once immigration and conversion results in a tipping point, Islamization of society and the full implementation will be more obvious to everyone, but people can have the foresight to know where the dreams of Muslims are trending towards.

    Green shirt rallies and sharia patrols have happened in various countries around the world. They seek to ban any activity frowned upon by Islam as well as make all politicians, lawmakers, judges, juries, presidents, prime ministers, premiers, and royalty Muslims by making the law forbid non-Muslims from those positions.

  22. No free newspaper in Pakistan? Sir, I believe you do not have much knowledge about Pakistan. Not only we have independent newspapers but also very feisty cable networks. Yes, Pakistan is a dangerous country for journalists but please do not conflate it with the independence of press. Many are still ready to speak the truth even when they are threatened.

  23. Thank you for demonstrating my point. Outliers.

  24. Oh yes, by all means, let’s cherry-pick nut jobs as if they represent the whole. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/06/14/pastor-refuses-to-mourn-orlando-victims-the-tragedy-is-that-more-of-them-didnt-die/

    Upturn any religious rock, and there are some very nasty things to be found swarming underneath. Christians are mandated to kill some people, it doesn’t even matter whom. We’re all very grateful that like most religious people, they pick out the parts of their religious texts they like, and turn a blind eye to the more unsavory passages. Is it hypocritical? Of course it is. Am I glad they do it? I certainly am, otherwise I would be stoned to death. I am an adult woman, living in a long term monogamous relationship with a man, my beloved boyfriend. We are not married, so technically, we are adulterers, and should be killed by having our neighbors pelt us to death with rocks. Are you in favor of that? We’re nice people, we pay our taxes, do volunteer work for our community, cook nice dinners for our friends and family, and pick up after our dogs. Clearly, we should be killed with rocks.

  25. Pakistan’s democracy is what about 3-4 years old? Pakistan is far more dangerous for people who support democratic reforms and a free press than it is for Islamicist preachers and would be jihadis. Especially given the utility of jihadis in conflicts bordering Pakistan.

    The point (although admittedly misguided a bit for Pakistan) remains that dictators in many countries are using Islamicism as a political tool to consolidate and extend power.

  26. If you read their book, the are representing what they are told to do.
    No, Christians are not mandated to kill anyone. “…Justice is mine, sayeth the Lord. I will repay.” Romans 12:19

  27. As far as I can tell only one person threatened in Europe was so authorized under a religious fatwa. The only other one that I can think of was Salman Rushdie. There may have been fatwas issued in the MidEast against other Muslims. You assume too much as to the level of Islamic knowledge for most ISIS followers. I think though that voices from both sides help to radicalize the ‘young and dumb’ – a nefarious type of tit for tat.

    And as to actual threats, I would be concerned if I received a YouTube video saying “She, the terrorist, the terrorist sympathizer, the terror inducer, the disgusting human being. This little girl, with very little intelligence, no personality, no strength in character, no brave bone in her body, that idiot, that scumbag, the guys out there are not going to debate you. You are going to see what the uncivilized Canadians out there take exception to. I’m not going to help them shoot you, I’m going to be there to film you on the ground crying . . . Ha ha ha ha, the member got shot by a Canadian patriot.” I have problems discounting this as not being a valid and real threat. Particularly if it was just one of many sent to this MP.

    And in terms of ISIS actions, then where do Israel’s extrajudicial killings fall? South African assassinations? And on, and on. Where ISIS currently takes the cake is with suicide bombings but that is relatively recent – this used to be a favorite strategy of the Tamil Tigers.

    I firmly believe that outside the sociopaths/psychopaths who hitch their wagon to a belief system they think they can exploit, that the world would be much better off if we can (try to) see ‘me’ in the ‘other’ and vice versa.

  28. Who exactly would be the true voice of Islam? This about in Christian terms/denominations? Who is the true voice for even a denomination let alone Christianity. Individual voices are often not hear or passed over by mainstream folks. Unfortunately, they lack the type of PR capacity provides something similar to the Pope with similar to the Vatican’s news room for instance. As well, the primary intent would be to communicate with their faith community.

    So a list of edicts prior to 2011. http://arts.unimelb.edu.au/nceis/welcome/national-imams-consultative-forum/rulings-and-statements
    There is also the letter to Bagdaddi who is the chief cleric for ISIS telling him he is wrong signed by leading Imans and theology scholars. You can google that.
    And this http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/70000-indian-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-isis-the-taliban-al-qaida-and-other-terror-groups-a6768191.html
    And a 600 page published fatwa proclaiming terrorism and suicide bombings as against the Qu’ran and Islamic faith teachings.

    But the other point would be that if you don’t support ISIS, that you don’t see it as representing your faith, why would you always be apologizing for that group?http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
    Do Baptists renounce Westboro Baptist each and every time? Etc Etc.

    In terms of fleeing have you looked at any current pictures of cities in the mid-east – allepo, mosul etc? Consider that in 2016 the US who dropped more than 25 thousand bombs mainly in Syrian and Iraq. That does not include any of the other players.

  29. Just stop it. STOP IT. You know perfectly well bible verses mandate killing people for various offences. And so does the Quran. So do most religious texts. You don’t have to look far to find lunatic fundamentalist Christian preachers in America, right now, calling for the deaths of various people because of some verse or other. And the same is true for lunatic Imams. These are psychopaths, religious zealots, justifying their murderous impulses in identical manners, just using different texts. Remember the witch burning trial in America? They were very popular at the time. Some people are calling for it right now, in this country. They are insane. But they have verses to back them up. The same is true for these insane fundamentalist Islamists. They are identical in their mental pathology. We can lump them all together and throw them in the trash bin. I’m not a religious person, but I’m at least willing to defend Christians who aren’t total nut jobs for holding their faith yet ignoring text passages which clearly and explicitly demand they kill people. What on earth is wrong with people who don’t see that? Most religious people, of any stripe, are not murderous nut jobs. We all have to worry about the ones that are.

  30. No Bible verses mandating killing anyone. I gave you the scripture.

  31. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

    You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

    “If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be
    put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
    lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put
    to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

    If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

    A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication
    and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their
    fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek
    the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or
    great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

    Shall I go on? There are loads more. The bible clearly, explicitly, mandates killing for a variety of things. The fact that YOUR personal theology ignores these verses, for whatever reason, is of no help whatsoever when others take them very seriously and literally. Which is why there are lunatic Christian pastors calling for death for these very things right now. They read the bible, that’s what is says, and that’s that. The only thing stopping them from going on a killing spree is the threat of life in prison. And sometimes even that doesn’t stop them. They are just as horrifying as any other murderous fundamentalist religious zealot.

  32. Except for the parts referring to gays and non believers. Then you claim they are relevant. Hypocrite much?

  33. Europeans don’t know squat about how to carry out an immigration and naturalization policy. They bring in cheap labor from Muslim countries and treat them like crap for generations. They create multi generational slums, subject them to endemic discrimination and deny them any sort of recognition as belonging to those countries. It’s not really a matter of refusing to assimilate, it is having the door permanently shut from ever being recognized because they are not white, Christian or share ethnic identity.

    This is why Muslim communities in Europe are hotbeds of terrorist sympathies but their American counterparts are quite the opposite.

    Our greatest tool against Islamicist terror has been American Muslims. People who don’t fear having their houses of worship banned. People whose children born here are citizens as a matter of course. People whose nation and national identity is not linked to race, ethnicity or religion.

    But by all means leave here and join the cretins who seem to be doing their best to ensure ISIS has fertile grounds for recruiting and mayhem.

    “Green shirt rallies and sharia patrols have happened in various countries around the world.”

    And none of them were in democratic or functioning nations. Show me one example of a democratic nation having an Islamic takeover.

  34. So, you went from “No Bible verses mandating killing anyone” to “All historical books”. Nice switcharoo there. It doesn’t matter if you regard these as “historical books”, and like most Christians, pick and choose which parts of the bible to take seriously, the point is other people take them seriously and cite them as valid reasons for calling for death. And as we know, you are rabidly anti-gay, so clearly you do pay attention to some of these “historical books”. (Although you obviously overlook the the parts of the bible that prohibit lying.)

  35. Your argument would be valid if those problems were universal to all immigrants rather than just Muslims ones. Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, East Asian, South East Asian, South Asian, etc immigrants aren’t the ones turning to theocracy, just the Muslims ones. They treated no different from Muslims immigrants, yet they are model minorities as opposed to Muslims. When Muslims attack France for instance, they don’t attack immigration policy as the justification they attack the “sexualy libertine culture of prostitution” as IS said in their justification for their attacks.

    The only reasons Muslims haven’t managed to takes over the West (Europe or the Americas) is because Westerners defending the West in the clash of civilizations. The real reason behind terrorism is the dissonance in values that Muslims find themselves in beleiving in things like the perfect society should prohibit alcohol while living where alcohol is legal, believing homosexuals should be executed while living in places with marriage equality, beleiving apostates should be executed while living in places while freedom of religion is respected, etc. I could go on and on about the cognitive dissonance that goes with being a Muslim living in the West.

  36. “Radical Muslims” want to cut your head off. “Moderate Muslims” DON’T want to cut your head off — they want the radical Muslims to do that for them.

  37. Muslims are the largest non white, non Christian immigrant group in western Europe.

    Ethnic enclaves have been hotbeds of terrorism there even before the rise of Islamicism. Most notably from colonial subjects. The Muslim immigrants are largely brought in as “guest workers”, a system which creates multi-generational problems.

    As for France, the French government and society treat Muslim immigrants like garbage, practically place them in ghettos and discriminate against them them constantly. No wonder there is growing animosity.

    “The only reasons Muslims haven’t managed to takes over the West (Europe or the Americas)”

    Bullshit. You still cannot give me a single example of a democratic nation which was “taken over”. In the US, Muslim enclaves are not the enforced slums like in Europe. They are actually more effective in turning in extremists than any garbage measure people like you think of. ISIS hates the Muslims who have actual freedom and hates refugees finding success, as what happens in the US.
    https://warisboring.com/american-muslims-turn-in-lots-of-terrorists-5be4561fded1#.cy6bvmygy

    You are doing your best make the job of terrorists easier.

    The only way extremists could “takeover” is if political majorities undermine the basis of religious freedom and pave the way for theocracy. What christian Dominionists do on a regular basis. Every one of those “separation of church and state is a myth” bozos makes that likely. Freedom loving and freedom upholding societies have no such risks. If you value real religious freedom, not just license for your faith then it can’t happen.

    “Muslims find themselves in believing in things like the perfect society should prohibit alcohol while living where alcohol is legal, believing homosexuals should be executed while living in places with marriage equality, believing apostates should be executed while living in places while freedom of religion is respected, etc. ”

    Making them no different from Christian extremists who do the same thing. Where you make the misstep is pretending the extremists represent a he entire faith. Something the Islamicist want want you to do.

    “I could go on and on about the cognitive dissonance that goes with being a Muslim living in the West.”

    I am sure you could. But it doesn’t mean you know a damn thing about it. Do you really think you are opposing extremism? Making situations safe from terrorism? You seem to be doing your best to enable extremists and make it easier for them to recruit. I am sure ISIS welcomed your support.

  38. no Christians do not take them seriously except for the moral laws of Leviticus and the ten commandments. Christians are not mandated to kill people.

  39. “Christians are not mandated to kill people.” After I have cited numerous bible verses (and there are plenty more) which call for exactly that. Your blatant dishonesty on this subject is staggering. You’re welcome to pick and choose whatever bible verses you like to take seriously. But don’t just sit there and repeat the bald-faced lie that the bible does not mandate death. It quite clearly does.

  40. As explained to you already, that is Christian history. The Bible, as you assert, does not mandate for Christians to kill people. Christ is our vindicator, as per the scripture I submitted.

  41. Can testify that the pastor of my ( pretty progressive, at times very liberal ) Midwestern church was quoting in the heat of marriage equality debate, verses calling for extermination of gays. Passive-aggressively, “see how lucky those sinners are we aren’t doing that? Becaise Bible mandates us!” Attempts to cry on my dear friend’s shoulder were met with confession that down there in rural
    TX xtian rednecks openly lament desegregation as anti-God evil law, still! In the year 2017 of our Lord. As well as sorely missing good ol KKK glory days 🙁

  42. According to the theology you follow, you conveniently ignore those verses. You certainly don’t speak for all Christians, some of whom are only too happy to cite the biblical verses mandating death. You are being entirely dishonest, and you should really knock it off. Shame on you.

  43. No dishonesty necessary when one agrees with Christ.
    “…Justice is mine, sayeth the Lord. I will repay.” Romans 12:19

  44. I don’t think dishonesty is necessary either, which is why it’s bizarre you feel the need to resort to it. Another dishonest Christian. Disappointing, but unsurprising.

  45. wait , you just called Lev. Ancient history and not relevant, a few posts above. Keep better track of your lies 😉

  46. I usually do. Leviticus is history, and Jesus brought the moral laws (from Levitius) into the New Testament in Matthew making them commands of the Lord. What is the problem, Liya?

  47. You are contradicting yourself as others already pointed out, Sandi. First you say Leviticus laws are not relevant, then you say they are,in Matthew they are made Commandments of the Lord.

  48. They are. Christ fulfilled the law.
    Matthew 5:17 – English Standard Version
    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

    He also brought the laws on morality into the New Testament:

    Matthew 15:19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander.20 These are what defile you.
    Revelation 21:8 ESV
    But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

    Many Jewish people still follow all of the laws, but, no one is going to go around trying to kill someone blaming it on the OT. The commands to kill are all historical and not meant for the NT.
    God said that He will avenge us, as I have posted several times.

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