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Sanctuary churches’ rocky relations with ICE strained after arrest of undocumented man

A demonstrating church member is arrested after Samuel Oliver-Bruno, 47, an undocumented Mexican national, was arrested after arriving at an appointment with immigration officials, in Morrisville, N.C., on Nov. 23, 2018. He had been living in CityWell United Methodist Church in Durham since late 2017 to avoid the reach of immigration officers, who generally avoid making arrests at churches.  (AP Photo/Travis Long)

DURHAM, N.C. (RNS) — Houses of worship that provide sanctuary for undocumented immigrants at risk of deportation follow strict protocols for protecting their guests from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents tasked with enforcing immigration laws.

Doors must stay locked at all times. Volunteers must be present 24/7, and they must undergo training on how to respond should ICE come knocking.

So far, it’s worked: Since the re-emergence of the sanctuary movement in 2014, no undocumented immigrant taking sanctuary in a church has been arrested on its premises.

Samuel Oliver-Bruno with his wife, Julia Perez Pacheco, in February 2018. Photo by Anna Carson DeWitt

But on those occasions when undocumented people have stepped out of church sanctuary, they have promptly been jailed and deported.

On the day after Thanksgiving, Samuel Oliver-Bruno, left a Durham, N.C., church where he was taking sanctuary for fingerprinting at U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

With the help of a pro bono lawyer and an immigrant advocacy group, Oliver-Bruno, a 47-year-old husband, father and lay minister, had applied for a deferral of his deportation on humanitarian grounds because his wife is ill. When he arrived at the USCIS office Friday (Nov. 23), he was tackled and whisked into a van by four plainclothes ICE agents, as church members who accompanied him watched in horror. After a two-hour peaceful standoff, his protectors, who had surrounded the van, were arrested and Oliver-Bruno was taken away.

After spending a few days at the Stewart Detention Center in Lumpkin, Ga., he was transferred to a detention facility in Brownsville, Texas, on Thursday. Homeland Security has denied Oliver-Bruno’s petition for deferred deportation and he is expected to be deported back to Mexico. He has spent more than two decades in the U.S., working in construction and caring for his wife, Julia Perez Pacheco, who has lupus and complications from open-heart surgery.

But since Oliver-Bruno’s arrest, sanctuary churches are doubling down on their security protocols.

“There were some (church volunteers) saying, ‘If he needs to go to a dentist, let’s just put him in a car and take him to a dentist,’” said the Rev. Doug Long, pastor of Raleigh’s Umstead Park United Church of Christ, where Eliseo Jimenez, an undocumented man, has been living since October 2017. “I don’t think people are having that conversation now.”

Cleve May, left, pastor of CityWell Church, flanked by Samuel Oliver-Bruno’s wife and son with the Rev. William Barber II, right, at a protest outside the Wake County Detention Center in Raleigh, N.C., on Nov. 26, 2018. RNS photo by Yonat Shimron

This week, Isaac Villegas, pastor of Chapel Hill Mennonite Fellowship, devised a rapid response text messaging service for allies and advocates for undocumented people in sanctuary. By registering for the SMS service, a leader can broadcast an alert asking people to show up to a site of an ICE arrest. As of Wednesday, 350 people had signed up.

“It takes a community to keep us safe,” said Villegas, whose church is providing sanctuary for an undocumented woman along with a Presbyterian church. “We need to learn how to do that well.”

There are 36 churches across the country providing sanctuary for an estimated 52 undocumented people, according to Church World Service, a multidenominational Christian ministry that works on immigration and other social justice issues. Hundreds of other supporting congregations, including synagogues and mosques, provide volunteers, meals and financial support to people in sanctuary.

For years, churches — along with schools and hospitals — have benefited from a 2011 “sensitive locations” memo that has prevented ICE from arresting, searching or interviewing people in houses of worship.

Susan Maldonado holds a sign in front of her son, Mikey Olvera Maldonado, 8, that reads “Immigrants and refugees are welcome here” at a vigil on Nov. 27, 2018, protesting the arrest of an undocumented immigrant by ICE in North Carolina. RNS photo by Yonat Shimron

But outside the church safety zone, the atmosphere, if not the rules of engagement, have been changing.

In April 2017, a pastor and a lawyer accompanied an undocumented immigrant for a scheduled check-in at an ICE office in Phoenix. At the end of the check-in, ICE ordered the man, Marco Tulio Coss Ponce, to get an ankle monitor and when he walked two blocks to another office to be fitted, he was quickly arrested and deported to Mexico.

“As soon as they isolated him, they detained him and deported him,” said the Rev. Ken Heintzelman, pastor of Shadow Rock United Church of Christ in Phoenix.

Heintzelman, whose church has provided sanctuary to multiple undocumented individuals and families, said that up until then, he and his congregation enjoyed a good relationship with ICE.

Under the Obama administration, ICE frequently dropped off asylum-seekers at his church once they were released from custody. Today, Heintzelman said, he no longer trusts the agency.

“The advice I would give is that undocumented people need to do their best to stay in sanctuary and let advocates — their attorneys — go in their stead,” he said.

Church leaders were especially alarmed at last week’s ICE arrest of Oliver-Bruno because it took place at the USCIS office, not in an ICE office. Furthermore, USCIS had sent Oliver-Bruno a letter asking him to appear for fingerprinting at 9 a.m. Nov. 23 as part of his application for deferred deportation.

“If you fail to appear as scheduled, your application, petition or request will be considered abandoned,” the form letter said.

That sent Oliver-Bruno into a trap, said U.S. Reps. David Price and G.K. Butterfield, who represent parts of Durham, in a statement. The two congressmen also criticized Oliver-Bruno’s arrest by pointing out that “it appears ICE has acted in concert with officials at USCIS.”

The appointment notice letter for Samuel Oliver-Bruno from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Oliver-Bruno was arrested by Immigration and Customs Enforcement when he arrived for his appointment. Courtesy photo

Noel Andersen, national grassroots coordinator for Church World Service, said he doesn’t remember another such incident.

“USCIS is supposed to assist immigrants in becoming citizens, not set them up for deportation,” Andersen said.

Recently, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a class-action lawsuit alleging officials for the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services have been coordinating with their counterparts at ICE to facilitate arrests at citizenship offices in New England.

USCIS spokesman Michael Bars declined to comment on Oliver-Bruno’s case, saying that the agency doesn’t comment on pending litigation.

As Oliver-Bruno awaits what appears to be imminent deportation, his case is drawing an impressive outpouring of support from local civic leaders, including Durham’s Mayor Steve Schewel. Even the dean of the Duke Divinity School, L. Gregory Jones, wrote a letter demanding he be released from custody so he can return to his family. (Oliver-Bruno had worked toward a certificate from Duke Divinity School’s Hispanic-Latino/a Preaching Initiative while in sanctuary.)

CityWell Church, the United Methodist congregation that provided Oliver-Bruno sanctuary for 11 months, has held a series of vigils to protest the arrest — including one Tuesday outside the local ICE office in Cary, N.C.

The vigils have brought out hundreds of Christians, Jews and secular activists to denounce ICE’s tactics and more generally the government’s hard-line immigration policies.

Not all church leaders are convinced that confrontation is the best path forward.

“I don’t like what ICE does,” said Long, the Raleigh pastor. “But if we’re putting people in the corner then we’re shooting ourselves in the foot in the long run.”

And even those close to Oliver-Bruno are recognizing that churches, even in their increased vigilance, must work in line with their principles.

“We must unmask the violent immigration policies of this nation,” said Alma Ruiz, a friend of Oliver-Bruno who spoke at Tuesday’s rally from the bed of a truck. “We must do it in a peaceful, powerful and prayerful way.”

Hundreds of people gathered in chilly 35-degree weather in front of ICE offices in Cary, N.C., on Nov. 27, 2018, to protest the arrest of Samuel Oliver-Bruno, an undocumented immigrant who had taken shelter at a Durham church. RNS photo by Yonat Shimron

About the author

Yonat Shimron

Yonat Shimron is an RNS National Reporter and Senior Editor.

46 Comments

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  • ICE has zero regards for its own rules and the due process rights involved with immigration law. They are at this point a goon squad, not law enforcement officers.

    All this effort to fill up quotas with easy inoffensive targets is not substantive law enforcement efforts. All this effort and money is being spent to look for new and interesting ways to prevent people from exercising due process rights.

    Despite the hysterical claims by conservatives, the process derided as “catch and release” was effective on many levels. People who were released while they were awaiting their applications to be reviewed and ruled upon showed up to hearings for more than 90% of the time on their own. A far better rate than bail for most criminal charges. The idea that these people needed to be locked up and forcibly separated from their children is based on nothing more than white supremacist hysteria. All about treating people inhumanely for its own sake.

    BTW before the hysterical bigoted ignorant bandwagon starts rolling by, if we treated these people the way we treat criminals, there would be far fewer arrests and deportations in general. They would have greater rights and access to due process and representation.

  • They do not have “rocky relations”, they have no relations.

    The ICE is charged with enforcing the law, there is no law of sanctuary in the USA, and the people being harbored and those harboring them are lawbreakers.

  • If we treated these people the way we treated criminals, there would be far fewer arrests…..

    Thanks for pointing out (one of) the problem(s) with our criminal justice system…. although, liberals aren’t big on law and order.

  • That was a ridiculous response.

    Actually the problem is conservatives who think our criminal justice system should lack any and all due process rights and frequently ignore them in favor of abuse and profiteering.

    What we are seeing now is use of government agents to harass and attack people for little more than spiteful reasons and to normalize bigotry.

    I am sure you can sleep easy now that we have taken one inoffensive menial laborer spouse of a US citizen out of public view and thrown into an unregulated corrupt detention center where abuse is almost certain.

  • I read this post yesterday on RNS as it related to the late John Chau; and I think the poster would have a very similar viewpoint regarding Samuel Oliver-Bruno:

    I have zero sympathy for (Samuel Oliver-Bruno). This was not the first time breaking the laws of a foreign country and deliberately ignoring the warnings given to him (as well as appreciating the consequences of his actions).

    written by Spuddie on: Missions – Love or Colonization.

  • So you are calling ICE uncivilized murderous savages. Ok

    BTW this guy is here with the consent of residents, including his US citizen spouse and was arrested in the process of becoming a legal resident.

    And you are still a fool who seems to support endangering people of color in defense of white privilege in many forms.

  • No, I’m agreeing with your spot on assessment that Samuel Bruno willfully broke the law of another nation and should suffer the consequences just like John Chau did.

  • Yep, it sounds much dumber when you do it. Especially given the guy’s efforts at legal residency and the underhanded method of arrest.

    But it has continuity with your disdain for brown skinned people and support of obnoxious harmful behavior.

  • Nope. I hate everyone equally.
    Mr Chau broke the law – there were consequences; you said so yourself.
    Mr Bruno broke the law – there also were consequences.
    Two guys that broke the law and paid a price; albeit one more than the other. At least Mr Bruno has an opportunity to exit the country and enter if he follows the proper procedures.
    While I do like your sense of justice, I do think the real truth is that you have a disdain for Christian missionaries.

  • With over 10 million illegal residents, ICE needs to focus its limited resources on rounding up real criminals (gang members, drug runners, gun runners, rapists, murderers, etc.) instead of going after the low hanging fruit.

  • I agree whole-heartedly. Now if only the mayors of San Francisco, Chicago, NYC, etc. thought like you and actually put the rights of American citizens ahead of illegal aliens; we might get somewhere.

  • I really don’t care if those cities are protecting people like Oliver-Bruno and their families. They aren’t the problem and we can’t waste resources on rounding them up even though they are breaking the law. You have to be practical. I’m even in favor of amnesty and giving legal status to those who contribute to our country. On the other hand we need to aggressively (but with due process) secure our borders better than we are now doing and minimize the inflow.

    I notice Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller and Daily Wire regularly report on the illegals who commit heinous acts against Americans. The undiscerning readers are given the false impression that this is an epidemic when it isn’t. This fuels the anti-immigrant sentiment that many Americans hold as well as perpetualizing negative stereotypes. It is a fact that many simply don’t want immigrants (or refugees) of color. I remember Trump wishing that we had immigrants from Norway.

  • I agree with what you are saying, go after the bad guys. However, the sanctuary cities do not turn illegal alien criminals over to ICE; although to the citizenry of these liberal cities, there isn’t any such thing as a criminal.
    You and others keep cycling back to this being a color thing for conservatives. It is not. It is a law an order issue; or more accurately, a follow the rules thing.
    If Democrats and Republicans would build the wall and secure the border, the average American would buy into amnesty. But when you see guys jumping fences, it pisses people off.
    Then, the government needs to allocate the resources necessary to process people faster. Finally, as much as people want to accept all of Central America; it just isn’t possible.

  • “Recently, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a class-action lawsuit alleging officials for the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services have been coordinating with their counterparts at ICE to facilitate arrests at citizenship offices in New England.”

    This is the same ACLU that recently abandoned any support for presumption of innocence and due process when it comes to college students, right? Why should we care what they think?

  • Not true. Chau acted like a privileged fool. This guy got arrested because he was following the law in his efforts to obtain legal status. He was lured out by a phony hearing notice about his status change efforts already in process. He was actually tryng to follow the law from that point. All because we have a president who wants to waste money and resources appealing to bigots and harassing people for purely malicious reasons.

    So no, more analogy fail on your part.

  • Certainly the porous border and the inability to defend it is an epidemic and has been for at least four decades.

    When I need a laugh I got to to YouTube and watch the late Senator John McCain’s campaign material advocating building a wall, and then look at his record after he got reelected.

    Landmining the border – Claymores would be nice – would be cheap and effective, more effective than a wall, and if the lying weasels in DC can’t do anything else they should do that.

  • How are the rights of American citizens affected by following the federal law and not volunteering to get involved in immigration enforcement? Especially when it’s done to protect local interests such as criminal law enforcement.

    Oh right, it’s just a canned screed. It’s not supposed to make sense.

  • State and local authorities have no obligation to divert their resources and undermine their interests to enforce federal civil law. There is no duty to turn people over to ICE. There is no law enforcement issue here.

    We have a federal agency running amok ignoring and abusing the law as standard operations. They are foregoing actually protecting the public to engage in systematic harassment of people of color. Pretty much for its own sake.

    None of this has anything to do with the borders either. BTW illegal border crossing is only considered a misdemeanor. Not the most heinous crime imaginable requiring indefinite detention, abuse and throwing children into concentration camps. Exaggeration and flat out bigotry is what guided tour position. You want excuses to treat people in abusive and inhumane ways.

  • The ACLU are correct here. It is interference with due process rights. People done to USCIS in effort to obtain legal status. ICE has been notorious in their efforts to attack the ability of people seeking legal redress.

  • sanctuary cities deliberately ignore federal law and harbor illegal aliens; all of which by illegally entering the country are criminals.
    Every public official’s first priority is to the CITIZENS of the United States; not their pet project.

  • If you took the time to actually read what Jim wrote; he was saying to go after the most serious criminal illegal aliens – to which I agreed.
    We then discussed building a wall and amnesty – to which we both agreed.
    You seem to have issues with Jim, more than me.
    BTW, why are you bigoted against American citizens? Why are you bigoted against Asian looking Christian missionaries?
    Why do you support the colonization of America by Hispanics from Central America?
    Hate Americans much?

  • Too bad ICE isn’t bothering to go after serious criminals and their efforts are interfering with local law enforcement. We have sanctuary cities because the local law enforcement want them. It helps fight crime by making immigrant communities more willing to cooperate with police.

    The wall is a publicity stunt and useless boondoggle. Amnesty is always a temporary measure. Conservatives are too beholden to using bigotry and panic as political points to consider long term reform here.

    I am just going to laugh off your trolling efforts from your last paragraphs.

    “Why do you support the colonization of America by Hispanics from Central America”

    I see you are copying talking points from neo Nazis now. Worried about white genocide like Roy Hobs?

    Interesting.

  • No illegal aliens are not criminals per se. There is no duty for state and local law enforcement to enforce CIVIL immigration law. Again if we treated illegal aliens like criminals they would have far more rights. ICE would have far less power to act (being hemmed in by 4th and 8th amendments)

    You are just spouting ignorant garbage showing no knowledge of the laws involved here or being enforced.

    The first duty of all state and local law enforcement is to the PEOPLE under their jurisdiction. Citizen or not, they all have a right to be protected from crime.

    Again, there is no part of this where the rights of citizens are affected.

    Your need to see civil code enforcement used as a tool to harass people is not worth harming CITIZENS by diverting law enforcement resources used to fight CRIME

  • Again, defending illegals over US citizens.
    I’ll make sure to let the victims of the crimes perpetrated by the illegals who broke the law to be able to commit a crime in the first place; that it’s no big deal.
    Why do you support the colonization of America?

  • Again showing flat out ignorance of the laws and engaging in hysterics and empty talking points.

    Illegal aliens who commit crimes are the province of local and state law enforcement. Not ICE. Immigration law violations are not crimes. Illegal aliens are not criminals by any reasonable measure.

    If border patrol doesn’t catch people coming in, illegal entry crime is unenforceable. Not the concern of state and local law enforcement. It has zilch to do with sanctuary cities. Which not only care legal but work effectively in supporting criminal law enforcement efforts

    Why are you repeating talking points of Nazis? Immigration of people of color is not being colonized. Seriously, “Brown Peril” arguments? You are better than that.

  • Except you totally aren’t. But you have been displaying your own. Even repeating neo Nazi talking points.

    So you think immigrants or even foreign tourists do not deserve protection from crime, only citizens. That’s not only bigoted but weird.

  • Again, JIMS point was for the cities to work with ICE to remove criminals.
    Again, you babble about local vs federal jurisdiction ignoring the victims of crimes committed by people who have no respect for our laws.
    I’d love to keep running in circles with you, but I need to work in order to pay taxes to support the good men and women of ICE.

  • You are both wrong. ICE doesn’t go after criminals. Illegal aliens aren’t criminals. Not all lawbreaking is the same. You are dishonest as hell in equating illegal aliens with a criminal threat.

    ICE gets in the way of police and makes criminal law enforcement more difficult. Crime runs rampant when witnesses and victims are afraid to go to the police. You don’t care.

    Again you are ignorant of the laws involved and don’t even want to hear anything which gets in the way of your nonsense talking points.

    ICE isn’t even going after dangerous illegal aliens. So your phony concern here is meaningless.

    You want crime to run rampant because you want criminal law enforcement efforts to be diverted to go after inoffensive CIVIL law violators. Your concern for citizens is fictional.

  • EVERYONE, including sanctuary churches, MUST obey all the laws of this country, including immigration laws. INS, ICE, and law enforcement in general are doing a great job, and deserve our support. ALL scofflaws, and those whose who aid and abet them,
    should pay a high price for breaking laws.

  • But you aren’t. You are dishonestly equating illegal aliens as criminals. Although there are times of overlap they are not the same thing. Being in the country illegally is not a crime. It is a civil violation. Something police in sanctuary cities ignore in favor of going after criminals. Actually protecting the public.

  • Maybe they’re right and maybe they aren’t, that wasn’t my point. As soon as the ACLU decided that when it comes to civil rights some people are more important than others, they ceased to be a civil rights organization and became simply one more Left-wing advocacy group.

  • you are RIGHT ! I would never put my family through any hardship such as this, his family is getting the blunt end of his stupidity for NOT DOING THINGS RIGHT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING ……applying legally and paying the fees required.

  • They pick their battles.

    To be honest I have yet to see mainstream conservatives make honest and accurate claims of being victims of civil liberty abuses. They tend to be in the side of those committing them.

    Given their frequent defense of right wing extremists when it comes to free speech issues, your assessment does not appear accurate.

  • “EVERYONE MUST obey all the laws” OR be prepared to face the consequences. There are some who believe the consequences of disobeying man made laws are not as great as the consequences of disobeying God’s law.

  • When the ACLU “picks its battles” based on race, sex, or political opinion, as I said, it has become just one more Left-wing advocacy group. And considering its rejection of presumption of innocence and due process for the accused on college campuses, that’s now clearly the case. It’s a shame, it was a truly nonpartisan advocate for civil rights once. But now it’s declared that it won’t defend group exercising its 2nd Amendment rights while exercising its 1st Amendment rights while defending the violent thugs of AntiFA. That pretty much says it all.

  • Repeating a wrong claim doesn’t make it correct.

    ” And considering its rejection of presumption of innocence and due process for the accused on college campuses, that’s now clearly the case”

    If you are complaining about Title IX duties to report sexual assault, then you are talking about the wrong group. We already know that Conservative Christians pretty much let sexual assault run rampant when they run colleges, as seen at Baylor University. Frankly I find your constant defense of sexual predators to be rather unusual. I guess conservatives suddenly became pro-rape after electing an admitted sexual predator to the WH (see “Access Hollywood tape”)

    ” But now it’s declared that it won’t defend group exercising its 2nd Amendment rights while exercising its 1st Amendment rights while defending the violent thugs of AntiFA.”

    Because there are none.

    You are telling me you support lynch mobs, neo-nazi violence and hate law enforcement efforts to ensure peaceable public political rallies. The only reason to carry guns to a protest is to intimidate others, threaten violence and murder people. Its a lynch mob. Its also racist as heck. If BLM had “armed protesters” you would be calling them terrorists just for their presence.

    BTW neo-nazis have murdered more than 70 people since Trump got elected. ANTIFA have killed zero people since inception.

    “That pretty much says it all.”

    Yes you made it clear I am talking to a crazed wingnut.

  • “If you are complaining about Title IX duties to report sexual assault,

    then you are talking about the wrong group.”

    So you can’t actually deny that the ACLU has abandoned presumption of innocence and due process for college men accused of sexual misconduct. And no, I don’t defend sexual predators, but men like those in these 35 cases of false accusations: https://www.dailywire.com/news/37090/35-times-men-were-falsely-accused-sexual-assault-kassy-dillon . They are very far from being alone.

    For more on the ACLU’s abandonment of its traditional purpose in order to argue that supporting women is more important than defending the civil rights of men, there’s this in the Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/aclu-devos-title-ix/576142/

    And here’s the writer’s response to some readers’ objections to his article: https://www.theatlantic.com/letters/archive/2018/11/readers-respond-aclu-title-ix-and-due-process/576613/

    “You are telling me you support lynch mobs, neo-nazi violence and hate law enforcement efforts to ensure peaceable public political rallies.”

    Not at all, I fully agreed with attendants at a march in Portland, as they cheered on the police tasked with protecting them and because of those polices’ efforts being assaulted by the AntiFA “counter-demonstrators.” That time, at least, law enforcement was stepping up to the plate and were to be applauded. It’s when officers stands aside while marchers/demonstrators and even innocent bystanders are assaulted that I have a problem with law enforcement.

    “The only reason to carry guns to a protest is to intimidate others, threaten violence and murder people.”

    Or, if you are protesting likely unconstitutional interference with your right to KEEP and bear arms, to demonstrate publicly by deed as well as word where you stand. Alternatively, if your peaceful protests have been repeatedly assaulted by thugs determined to deny you your right to “peaceably assemble” with law enforcement proving unwilling or unable to prevent the assaults, a demonstration that you are willing to defend your rights where the government can’t or won’t. Thanks to the 14th Amendment, these days the major point of the 2nd Amendment is to recognize your right to an adequate ability to defend yourself when the State can’t or won’t.

    I will agree with you on one point, though–the only reason to bring clubs, chains, bags of urine and feces, etc., to a COUNTER-protest is to threaten, intimidate, and assault others. If that’s what you want to support, feel free.

  • Actually I denied it entirely. They have nothing to do with it. Nor is your take on Title IX remotely correct. But it does point to a certain attitude against reporting sexual assault or taking the subject seriously common to conservatives in general. You are defending sexual predators. You’ve done it before. For every case of allegations of false accusations there are 1000s of more legitimate ones you want to sweep under the rug. There is no shortage of people willing to represent men who claim to be falsely accused of sexual assault. There has always been a serious problem in reporting sexual assault. Especially Christian Universities like the trouble Ken Starr ran into at Baylor University.

    Dailywire is not a news source. I can’t take any claims from it seriously.

    You also like to defend Neo nazi murderers and lynch mobs. People only mention ANTIFA lately in order to deflect from the murderous activities of right wing extremists. You bring a gun to a protest, you are not exercising free speech you are threatening to murder people. These neo nazi mobs you defend have no intention to peaceably protest. They intend to spark violence and bring guns to a rally to incite violence. You are a l1ar in the most obvious sense. You want neo nazis committing murder. Preferably under the nose of police. BTW L1ar, when the neo nazis rallied in DC they were not allowed to bring weapons. They were outnumbered 1000 to 1. No violence, no issue. When neo nazis were not allowed to act like a lynch mob, they didn’t want to show up. Police kept control of the situation.

    1000s of sexual assaults under reported > you concern for rapists

    Guns to a rally and murders > any bullcrap you are bringing up with ANTIFA.

  • If all you can do is throw around ad hominem attacks instead of actually responding to my posts, there’s no point in trying to discuss anything with you. Enjoy your echo chamber.

  • Mr. Martyrbater Is tired of speaking for fake victims and projection.

    It is not ad hominem to say you support both sexual predators and neo nazis. It was your stated opinion. As was your defense of lynch mobs. There was no point to your argument. You only shows me what kind of reprehensible garbage you throw your lot in with.

  • ICE is not designed for “rounding up real criminals (gang members, drug runners, gun runners, rapists, murderers, etc.)”.

    The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is a law enforcement agency of the federal government of the United States tasked to enforce the immigration laws of the United States and to investigate criminal and terrorist activity of foreign nationals residing in the United States.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement

    All other criminals are the focus of Federal, state, and local police authorities – apparently with the exception of some state and local governments who have carved out an area of law enforcement they won’t touch with a ten-foot pole or former Governor Jerry Brown’s remaining hair.

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