MOSCOW, Idaho (RNS) — Pastor Doug Wilson has agreed to a live on-air discussion with the producers of “Sons of Patriarchy,” a podcast dedicated to exposing what it describes as abuse within Wilson’s church, Christ Church, after a confrontation during a weekend of dueling events in Moscow.
The unexpected agreement came Saturday (Aug. 9) when Wilson was approached by Peter Bell, the podcast’s producer, and Sarah Bader, who works on the show, during a weekend-long event organized by the church.
Bell said Wilson agreed to “a live 1-on-1 with me in Moscow, Idaho. We have it on record.”
However, Bell noted to RNS that Wilson is demanding a closed venue for the live conversation and other stipulations.
“He’s well aware of the crowd and media this would bring, and that I know his theology about as well as anyone else,” said Bell, who started “Sons of Patriarchy” last year to expose what he sees as patterns of abuse in church leaders.
Wilson confirmed the potential debate on Facebook, posting “It’s happening … IF” in response to an announcement about the face-off.
Guests pack the Kenworthy Performing Arts Center for a “Sons of Patriarchy” live event on Aug. 8, 2025, in Moscow, Idaho. (Photo by Tracy Simmons/FāVS News)
The development follows a sold out “Sons of Patriarchy” event on Friday, in which more than 275 people packed Moscow’s Kenworthy Performing Arts Center to hear a live recording of the show. The podcast producers had deliberately scheduled their first Moscow visit to coincide with Grace Agenda, Christ Church’s weekend conference themed around C.S. Lewis’ Narnia series.
The dueling Moscow events came the same weekend Wilson drew national attention for a CNN interview where he defended his belief that women should not be in church leadership and are expected to submit to their husbands. Wilson, a self-described Christian nationalist, also doubled down on his support to repeal the 19th Amendment — which gave women the right to vote and was ratified in 1920 — saying men should vote for their “households.”
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who attends a church in Wilson’s denomination and has praised Wilson’s writings, reposted the CNN interview on social media with the comment “All of Christ for All of Life” — a motto of Christ Church or Christ Kirk, as it is also known.
“We’re all here because of a guy you know in this town. I won’t even say his name,” said Bell to loud applause as he took the stage Friday evening. “If you’re human, you want him gone.”
Jeff Moss, a Palouse, Washington, resident and former Christ Church member who has appeared twice on the “Sons of Patriarchy” podcast, noted the significance of hosting the event in Moscow during Grace Agenda. Moss left the church 10 years ago after serving as a pastor in the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches, the denomination Wilson helped found. Moss graduated from Christ Church’s Greyfriars Hall pastoral training program and served as a missionary to Hungary to start a CREC church there before being ordained as a pastor in the United States.
“‘Sons of Patriarchy’ gives voice to people who have been abused in a number of ways by churches, by CREC, by churches influenced by Doug Wilson’s ideas,” said Moss, who said he left the church after realizing he didn’t fit there anymore.
Moscow represents “ground zero” for the movement, he explained, because Christ Church is based there and many church families send their children to New St. Andrews College, Wilson’s affiliated institution, even though the church’s influence extends nationally and internationally, including a new church plant in Washington, D.C.
RELATED: Complexified Podcast – Exposing soft Christian nationalism
The church’s rapid growth has transformed Moscow’s landscape. Since 2019, Christ Church has doubled in size to about 3,000 congregants in the town of 25,000, a growth spurt driven by families with four to six children on average and what Wilson calls emigration from blue states. The church recently completed a new 1,200-seat church hall on Dominion Avenue, though Wilson says the church has already outgrown it. Construction continues on a new campus for the affiliated Logos School, which serves 750 students, while church members operate multiple businesses throughout downtown Moscow.
Bell described Grace Agenda as Wilson’s “biggest recruiting conference” and said the podcasters’ visit was strategically planned to “crash” the event and “plant seeds of disillusionment in the Moscow community, especially with Kirkers.”
“Sons of Patriarchy” podcast logo. (Courtesy image)
Bell, who launched the podcast nine months ago, described the purpose in visiting Moscow: “We’re the bully of the bullies. We make sure we keep you safe.”
The podcast has launched Outreach Idaho, a support organization that provides resources for church abuse survivors, including legal help, counseling and assistance with moving. The organization has an intake team that responds to people seeking help.
“That’s literally what it’s for. It’s for those who are looking for help,” Bell said. “That’s why we exist as a podcast.”
Journalist and author Sarah Stankorb joined Bell on stage for a live recording of the show to discuss her upcoming book, “Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion.” She’s credited with bringing national attention to Wilson’s movement through her 2021 Vice article detailing allegations of abuse within the church community.
During the live recording portion, Stankorb discussed research showing that abuse — spiritual, physical and sexual — is one of the main reasons women leave churches.
“Patriarchy isn’t new,” she said, noting common themes across different faith communities in her research.
After the live podcast recording, audience members lined up to share personal stories and ask questions about combating Christian nationalism while maintaining community relationships.
Moscow City Councilor Julia Parker was first to speak, asking how to “be a good, welcoming, kind community” while fighting “this Christian nationalist church.”
“We want to have respect for our neighbors at the same time we want to fight this,” Parker said, describing a dilemma she said many Moscow residents who are concerned about Christ Church’s influence face.
Stankorb encouraged organization and self-care, citing examples of communities that successfully countered organized minority groups through larger, civil responses.
Several attendees asked for advice on talking with Christ Church neighbors in helpful, loving ways, especially those who are considering leaving but who might feel scared.
Multiple speakers addressed from stage the isolation experienced by those questioning or leaving patriarchal faith communities.
“When you don’t fit, and then when you leave, it’s really pretty lonely,” Stankorb said, discussing research showing the comprehensive nature of loss when leaving close-knit religious communities.
One attendee who traveled from outside the area described feeling “virtually alone” in questioning her conservative evangelical background and expressed gratitude at seeing “so many people actually talking about stuff that’s been in my head for so long.”
The evening addressed tensions between political conservatives and progressives in addressing issues around Christ Church.
One attendee identified herself as a conservative Republican who works with other churches, saying she found herself in an awkward position during the last election when she saw “the voting bloc of Christ Church walk in to vote together.”
Bell thanked both conservatives and progressives in the audience for not “booing” each other, noting that Christ Church grows when “there’s Christ Church and there’s everybody else, and they fight against each other.”
“Whether you’re Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal, progressive, Black, white, whatever it is, this is why you guys can get together,” Bell said.
Stankorb emphasized finding common ground.
“Maybe we’re not agreeing on policy positions, but I want to believe there’s some core thing that binds us together, whether that’s our sense of rights or liberty or human freedom,” she said.
Wilson’s agreement to appear on the show marks a departure from his typical response to critics. When approached by reporters about “Sons of Patriarchy,” he has previously replied by referencing a letter from his attorneys. In other venues, he has dismissed the podcast’s claims as recycled defamation or slander.
“I have had an open invite to Doug to talk, and he has maintained silence,” Bell said during the event. “He does not want to talk.”
Wilson did not respond to a request for comment for this article.
The “Sons of Patriarchy” team announced plans to return to Moscow.
“This is not the only visit. We want to make this as much of a regular thing as we can,” said Bell, who is based in Georgia.
He also encouraged attendees to wear “Disobedient Women” T-shirts around Moscow throughout the Grace Agenda weekend, which continued Saturday. Half the proceeds from sale of the shirts will support Outreach Idaho.
The event concluded with Bell emphasizing the group’s role as a resource for those seeking help.
”We may not have resources, but we have people who can talk to you, who can help you. If you want to tell your story, we can point you to people who can help,” he said.