5 reasons Donald Trump has a Mormon problem

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Republican U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump asks his supporters to raise their hands and promise to vote for him at his campaign rally at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on March 5, 2016. Photo courtesy of REUTERS/Kevin Kolczynski

Republican U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump asks his supporters to raise their hands and promise to vote for him at his campaign rally at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on March 5, 2016. Photo courtesy of REUTERS/Kevin Kolczynski

Donald Trump is scheduled to speak tonight in Salt Lake City, in advance of the Utah caucuses on Tuesday.

He faces an uphill battle ahead.

And that’s not just because protesters have said they will be there, and that they plan to have chants and strike at “a piñata that looks like Donald Trump.”

It’s because Mormon voters, who constitute a majority of the electorate, have never warmed to the Republican frontrunner. An excellent article in the Salt Lake Tribune this week laid out the problem:

The reason for the Mormon iciness? Likely everything from Trump’s tabloid-ready personal life to his exclusionary policies on immigration and Islam. Mormons also see him as an unsavory candidate who doesn’t respect other religions, according to Matt Miles, a political scientist at LDS Church-owned Brigham Young University-Idaho.

“You have a group who cares more about politics than the church, those Mormons tend to be Trump supporters,” Miles said. “For those religion-first Mormons, they won’t support Trump. They’ll say he had too many divorces, and they don’t see him as a strong moral leader.”

The proof is in the election results. While Trump came in second to Ted Cruz in Idaho as a whole (45.4% for Cruz to 28.1% for Trump), in the Mormon-heavy counties of southeastern Idaho, Trump lost by huge margins, like taking home just 17.8% of the vote in Oneida County behind Cruz’s 59.9%. About three quarters of Oneida County residents are LDS.

The story was even worse in Wyoming, where Trump only received 7.2% of the overall vote to Cruz’s 66.3% and Rubio’s 19.5%. Wyoming is America’s third-most Mormon state.

The Trib article does a fine job of summarizing some reasons for Trump’s failure to connect with Mormons, despite the fact that Mormons are now the most reliably Republican religious group in the United States.

Here is my take on some of the reasons why, expanding on what was in the Trib and adding some thoughts of my own.

1. Trump hates women.

Let’s just put it out there, shall we? And unlike the soft-spoken “chicken patriarchy” practiced by the LDS Church (in which women are held on pedestals as sweet and  wonderful), Trump’s misogyny is hate-filled and obvious, like Trump himself.

Consider this excerpt from his 1997 book The Art of the Comeback:

“For a man to be successful he needs support at home, not someone who is always griping and bitching. When a man has to endure a woman who is not supportive and complains constantly about his not being home enough or not being attentive enough, he will not be very successful unless he is able to cut the cord.”

In the same book Trump advises a friend whose wife said he was working long hours and not paying attention to the family to divorce her straightaway. “If he doesn’t lose the ballbreaker, his career will go nowhere,” Trump explained. (Trump is now on his third wife. He committed adultery with the woman who became the second while still married to the first.)

And that’s to say nothing of his excessive focus on women’s physical attractiveness, whether it’s in insulting the appearance of CEO and fellow presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, calling a nursing mother “disgusting,” or insinuating that professional journalist Megyn Kelly should be discounted because she was probably having her period. Unbelievable.

2. Trump is crude and profane.

Profanity might not matter to many voters anymore, but it definitely matters to Mormons. Mormons don’t stomach presidential candidates who say they would “bomb the shit out of” ISIS. “I would just bomb those suckers.” And that’s not just because bombing anyone might be an ethically bankrupt course of action or at the very least something that we should all stop and consider first; it’s the vitriolic and incendiary language he used.

Mormons don’t take kindly to presidential candidates who appear to brag about their penis size in a national debate.

And speaking of penises, Mormons also don’t cotton to a man who uses slang words for that appendage when referring to other political candidates.

3. Trump is a loose cannon.

Contemporary Mormon rhetoric is typically understated. Mormon leaders are incredibly careful—some would say too careful—about what they say in public. They do not have temper tantrums. They behave like adults. They do not typically insult others or air private grievances in public.

So when someone like Donald Trump appears who is so clearly antithetical to the temperament of almost every Mormon leader since the days of Brigham Young (God bless his outspoken, tantrumy soul), it’s a problem. It’s not hard for Mormons to wonder just what it would be like if someone whose ego is so easily bruised that he harasses satirists who have poked fun at him were elected president. The world could be a dangerous place if Donald Trump, famous for his grudges and personal vendettas, had his hand on the proverbial red button.

4. Trump is not a believing Christian.

Trump’s lack of genuine religious faith is offputting to Mormons and others. He is a person who collects Bibles, as RNS has reported, but who doesn’t seem to actually read them, as evidenced by his well-publicized gaffe in saying “Two Corinthians” when he was trying to pass among evangelicals at Liberty University.

He attends church now and again and calls himself a Presbyterian, but he has also had negative things to say about believers, making fun of Ben Carson’s Seventh Day Adventist faith and asserting his own mainline Protestant hegemony by way of contrast.

Mormons might be prone to forgive Trump’s comments about Carson, but they’re less likely to give a pass to what he told Buzzfeed journalist McKay Coppins about the LDS Church itself. In 2014 he called Mormonism an “alien” religion, which suggests he sees Mormons as being in the same “other” category in which he placed Carson. He made this comment before he knew that Coppins himself was a Mormon, and quickly backpedaled, but the damage to Mormon confidence in Trump has been real (see here and here).

5. Mormons don’t hate immigrants.

Trump’s idea of building a wall to keep out immigrants is at odds with the LDS Church’s more loving and charitable stance on immigration, which you can read about here.

Politically, Mormons’ views on immigration actually differ from other Republicans’ overall. As David Campbell shows in the new book Mormonism and American Politics, Mormons are more than twice as likely as evangelicals to favor “more immigration” to the U.S., and they are far less likely than others to advocate “less immigration.” In fact, among American religious groups surveyed, only Jews are more welcoming of immigrants.

Trump’s statements about denying entrance to political refugees contradicts the approach we’ve seen in the LDS Church, which issued an official statement last year about the need for church members to reach out to refugees and support them financially if possible, and sent Elder M. Russell Ballard to visit with Syrian refugees in November.

Trump is not going to win Utah’s caucuses, where he has been polling in third. However, at this point he looks likely to win the Republican nomination and head to the general election.

At that point Mormons across the country will have to make a choice about whether their loyalty to the Republican Party is going to win out over their loyalty to a moral code that Donald Trump has never lived by.


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  • Elder Anderson

    What turns me off is his bald face dishonesty. He says or does something that’s captured on video or on the record, then he flat out denies it. It’s not just morally wrong, it’s so blatant as to make him seem delusional.

    Some examples that come to mind are the “Trump Steaks” business (Obama’s jokes about it were hilarious) and the “Punch Him I’ll Pay Your Legal Bills” incident, where Trump later claims he doesn’t want to pay those bills because that would be rewarding violence, and “I Can’t Show You My Tax Returns”.

    Donald, you so cra cra.

  • Elder Anderson
  • Sabelotodo2

    I enjoyed this article and comment, and credit Mormons with being more principled critical thinkers than the hordes of evangelicals who are hailing Trump as their Lord and Savior! You’d think they would know better than to elevate a mere man-and not a very good one at that–to be our salvation, what with all their preaching about Jesus Christ and his much different way of salvation.

    I question the whole contention that believers should invest so much of their time into politics as the effort to bring about the kingdom of God. Christ made it very clear that his kingdom is not of this world!

  • R

    Trump is the only Presidential candidate who has awakened to the awful situation we are in (Book of Mormon).Newt Gingrich said it very plainly Trump is not accepted by mainstream politicians because he has not entered into the Secret societies with the rest (THIS IS SECRET COMBINATIONS AND MORMONS ARE IN THE THICK OF SECRET SOCIETY) A mans morality doesn’t involve only his parts below his waist, Utah is the Scam capitol of the country also psychoactive drug consumption, and porn top the stastics here in Utah. My sister recently divorced scammed out of 100,000 dollars by GOOD brother, now she is nearly homeless! Mormonism has been a tool of the British City of London world Global Government Zionism since Brigham Young had any thing to do with it. Wilford Woodruff died suspiciously after a ist to the Bohemian club secret society. Masonry was first for Albert Pike contemporary Brigham Young. Yes Donald Trump is a man with faults But so is any brother from Hierarchy of Mormonism.

  • Danny S

    OMG the tin foil hats are coming out on this post. Mormons as critical thinkers and Gadiantons. I don’t know which allegation flummoxes me more.

    Utah is an irrelevancy in the primary (or general) election. It has relatively few delegates. Trump doesn’t need the state. Don’t expect him to wring his hands. Come general election, Utah will fall into line to oppose ANY democratic candidate. Can’t wait for the Facebook posts predicting the end of the world if a democrat wins.

    I think it’s time to go golfing… FORE!

  • Gary Johnson 2016!

  • Elder Anderson
  • ben in oakland
  • Jeff P

    Speaking as an active Presbyterian (in particular, the PCUSA), the denomination in which Donald Trump seems to claim membership:

    Although Donald Trump self identifies as ‘Presbyterian’, and grew-up in a Presbyterian (PCUSA) congregation, he is apparently not an active member of any Presbyterian congregation, and hasn’t been for a long time. I do not know his theological views or anything about his personal faith life. However, he has taken some positions, and spoken in ways that would be strongly at odds with the sentiments of most Presbyterians, as well as the official positions of the Church (see Jana’s points 1,2 and 5, for example). The Stated Clerk of the General Assembly of the PCUSA (effectively the top position in the denomination) recently wrote a public letter to Trump in October, challenging Trump’s public positions and statements on immigrants.

    However, Donald would be quite welcome to worship with us on any Sunday, as we’re all broken.

  • Jeff P

    You might like David Brook’s article in the NYT today – he really takes Mr. Trump to-task for this dishonesty.

  • Brad K

    This is what scares me the most. I can see my fellow Mormons saying “Yeah, Trump is crude, ignorant, and doesn’t like Mormons – but hey, he’s not a Democrat.”

  • Elder Anderson

    Thanks. Link below for the interested student.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/opinion/no-not-trump-not-ever.html

    From the linked article:

    Psalm 73 “Therefore pride is their necklace; they clothe themselves with violence. … They scoff, and speak with malice; with arrogance they threaten oppression. Their mouths lay claim to heaven, and their tongues take possession of the earth. Therefore their people turn to them and drink up waters in abundance.”

  • Kevin JK

    Amen! Libertarianism is the ONLY political philosophy that is completely in harmony with the Gospel. The temple teaches us that we may choose for ourselves to do something for it is given unto us, even if God forbids it. Satan believed in using force to impose his ideas. Republicans and Democrats do the same. They believe in using government force to impose their own subjective morality on others.

    Reject Satan, vote Libertarian.

  • In a better world, Donald Trump’s problem would be appealing to anyone with two functioning brain cells to rub together. Instead, he’s stoking base, nativist fears and riding a wave of (mostly) white existential frustration and angst toward the GOP (is anyone really surprised at which party?) nomination.

  • R

    Just for the record It was Marco Rubio (accused of being a former Mormon and homosexual) who brought up the issue of the size of Trumps Manhood, through a thinly veiled reference to The size of Trumps hands, Lets be honest now Trump was only defending himself!

  • yoh

    You are masterful in irony. To many Christians, imposing their will on others is part and parcel with the exercise of their religious beliefs.

    Although you say the Gospels promote an obvious indifference to caring for the poor, and promotion of acquisition of wealth (although much of the new testament refutes such notions categorically), the old testament makes such thing a sacred duty.

    Libertarianism is a fairly vacant idea which promotes corruption, discrimination, and rampant destruction of resources for the common good.

  • Elder Anderson

    Probably just another whopper, so to speak. So far nobody has challenged him out of fear he’ll call a press conference to prove it on live TV. I suspect we’d all be grossly disappointed.

  • Kevin JK

    Jesus nor Paul ever called for government to take money from people by force to take care of the poor. The Church today uses VOLUNTARY contributions to care for our poor. This is what Libertarianism is about. Voluntary interaction instead of force. Sure, libertarians are free to seek wealth, but they are also free to working for a charity. I work for a very large international charity and make less than what I could make at a for-profit company. people are free to pursue their own interests with minimal government interference.

    Since libertarianism promotes minimalist government, corruption is minimized. What good is being corrupt if the system offers you no money or power? Big government promotes corruption. Look at China. Discrimination? Sure, that COULD happen, but discrimination is bad for business since good customers and good employees will go elsewhere. Sometimes people use their freedom in ways of which you disapprove. that’s the nature of freedom.

  • yoh

    Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s ring a bell for you?

    The entire attitude of taxation as a taking is infantile. The people who are benefiting the most from the system owe a duty of care for its maintenance and upkeep. You are enshrining the hypocritical notions of atheist Ayn Rand as elements of the gospel.

    “Minimal government” means minimal enforcement if civil liberties or laws which benefit those who can’t rely on “might makes right”

    Charities have no duty to serve all people nor have the infrastructure to provide the kinds of services a social safety net does.

    Look at China and Russia big money becomes big government in the absence of democratic structures in place Corruption becomes epidemic. The market does not police itself. Government is the only force which can fight corruption.

    How can you call a system free when it enables the wholesale attack on the liberties and rights of individuals by private concerns? Libertarianism is warmed over oligarchy

  • ben in oakland

    And he needed large hands to do it?

    BTW, we gay people have no need to own Marco Rubio. We both consider it a slur to call him gay. But you consider it a slur on him, and we consider it a slur on us.

  • ben in oakland

    I myself will be relieved if he doesn’t. The price of brain bleach threatens to double at the mere thought.

  • ben in oakland

    Let us not forget Jesus picking up a going when he did the “render unto Caesar?” thing.

    Funny. I’m one of them evil libruls. Yet I have no problem paying taxes so that we have roads, schools, police, laws and a host of other benefits in a civilized society. It’s called paying your share.

    Libertarians, at least of this ilk, don’t want to pay taxes, considering it taking, rather paying for, the benefits of living in a civilized society. Yet what are they adding to the general weal? And are they not taking by not paying for it?

    It’s funny, whenever very conservative people get together, projection, whether about fiscal or sexual matters, seems to be their stock in trade.

    Meanwhile, gay marriage. You are for it, right? And sodomy laws, your against, right? “Sometimes people use their freedom in ways of which you disapprove. that’s the nature of freedom.”

    And non-discrimination laws! sure, if the market will take care of it. We’d still be desegregating.

  • Kevin JK

    The “render” verse simply promotes the separation of church/state and letting each reign unmolested in their own realm. Again, Jesus nor Paul ever advocated for a welfare state. Libertarians would use their own political means to lower taxes and encourage voluntary giving over forced redistribution. It’s in the interest of the rich to help keep the system going, sure and that’s why they’d voluntarily give. They won’t starve the goose laying golden eggs.

    One of the legit jobs of gov is the enforcement of laws. those breaking laws and violating rights should be punished and the state given enough resources to do it. This includes laws regarding fraud so business can’t run amok. Competition also keeps people in line. How many people are buying VW’s now after VW pulled a fast one?

    Libertarianism is NOT anarchy. Gov has a legit purpose and protecting the rights of all is a major one. Fraud, slavery, etc.. will still be crimes. I just don’t advocate force to impose…

  • Kevin JK

    Libertarians have no problem paying taxes. We just believe that government is doing far more than was the original intention. The portion of people’s income going to taxes keeps goin up and up. Libertarians believe in the 9th and 10th Amendments delegating power to the states rather than the feds stealing more and more.

    Gay marriage? Libertarians support it. During the Prop 8 debate, I was the webmaster of lds4gaymarriage.org which opposed Prop. 8 saying that the scriptures state that it is wrong to use one’s religious opinions to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others (D&C 134:4, 1 Cor. 10:29) and that the Church was violating scripture by supporting Prop. 8. See? libertarianism DOES support the Gospel.

  • yoh

    Nobody picks up the trash in Galt’s Gulch. Consideration of the public good is not in the Libertarian wheelhouse. They don’t want fair taxation or use of government resources for the maximum benefit to the public. Just to protect what they perceive as theirs (and yours)

    “One of the legit jobs of gov is the enforcement of laws. those breaking laws and violating rights should be punished and the state given enough resources to do it. This includes laws regarding fraud so business can’t run amok. …”

    That is not small government at all. Definitely not a consideration by Libertarianism. They find regulations to protect the public to be coercive and too restrictive on the rights of corporations to do business as they wish. The market NEVER keeps businesses in line. Businesses game the market when given the chance. Short term gains discourage self-policing by businesses or industries. The public always gets harmed by such expediences.

  • yoh

    And yet Most Libertarians (opposed the application of the 14th Amendment. Taking the enforcement of civil liberties out of the hands of states and putting it under federal authority. The states can be trusted for many things, but not everything.

    Localized political power is easier to buy off than national level power. Hence deregulation and gutting of national level regulatory bodies has always been damaging to the general public. Allowing haphazard enforcement of laws to protect the public, enabling corruption.

    Many Libertarian groups had no qualm about gay marriage bans, considering such issues to be state ones, subject to majority rule. Being generally opposed to national level power, they they didn’t bother to consider 14th Amendment equal protection issues.
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-libertarian-case-against-gay-marriage/
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?460944-The-libertarian-case-against-gay-marriage

  • Kevin JK

    Sorry Yoh, but you have no clue about libertarianism. If there were a city of libertarians, the trash wouldn’t get picked up? Gimme a break! A trash company would form and offer pick up to the residents. They’d be free to either subscribe to that service or haul their own trash away. Such services are even offered through fire departments and I heard of a story of a guy not paying for it and the fire dept. let his house burn down while protecting his subscribing neighbors.

    Libertarians are also big supporters of laws against fraud. This help businesses stay straight. They also support private certifying groups like underwriters labs (UL) for electronics. Consumer Reports also helps keep businesses honest. A business’s reputation is everything. With the Net, bad press travels fast. Everybody knows about VW’s fraud and they are now in trouble. Everyone knows about Chipotle’s troubles and they too are begging for customers to return. Freedom has never been more…

  • Kevin JK

    There are people in all groups who try to hide their bigotry behind the call of “states rights”, “religious liberty”, etc…sure. The basic foundational tenet of libertarianism is allowing people complete freedom to do as they wish as long as no harm (via force or fraud) is exerted on others.

    If a group decided to limit free speech or religion based on the subjective morals of the majority, that would be in direct violation of libertarianism’s foundation. The concept of extreme scrutiny would apply to all proposed laws forcing government to justify any restriction of freedom upon preventing objective harm rather than imposing subjective morals. Many places today forbid car dealerships from selling cars on Sundays. Many locals approve of this, but this is clearly an imposition of subjective morality on other’s violating their basic rights. This is clearing in violation of the aforementioned verses.

    Don’t be like pastor MARTIN NIEMÖLLER. Government will come for you…

  • R

    i was pointing out his obsession with Trumps “HAND size”. But I guess that is OK right!

  • yoh

    In a Libertarian paradise, as espoused by folks like Ayn Rand, only exceptional people are gathered about, “makers” not “takers”. (See Atlas Shrugged) Everyone is too busy feeling superior and expecting others to do the dirty work for them. When one considers taxation in a democracy to be “theft” one is not contributing to the welfare of the whole, seeking to retain all resources for one’s self. A purely market formed sanitation company will seek maximum profits for minimum effort. This would mean dumping anywhere which would be expedient, as opposed to safe We see that in Dubai, a city where urban planning was done by “the market” and nobody thought to develop a decent sewer system.

    “Small government” and fraud prevention are opposing positions. Private industry NEVER polices itself. Short term profits win out over long term reputation. Our last few recessions were directly the result of failures of finance/banking/accounting industries to police itself.

  • yoh

    So its the no “true libertarian’ argument. 🙂

    Ron Paul was the most visible voice of Libertarianism for the last few years. He is also a raging racist who opposes civil liberties enforcement on principle.

    Civil liberties are not something one entrusts to “small government”. Not in his country. in fact no regulations which protect the public from people with sufficient voting power or financial resources are effective with “small government”.

    Libertarian politicians at best are “welfare queens” who are elected on the promise to do nothing of value in office (see Ron Paul) or worse run on the premise of undermining or destroying the system they are part of (see The Tea Party).

    To demonize the government in a democracy, you undermine yourself. If it isn’t working for us, its our fault. Government in a democracy fails to work when people fail to get involved with it.

  • Everett

    It is a pretty big and wrong assumption to say that just because someone is against and wants something done about the thousands of foreigners pouring across our southern borders, smuggled into our ports, in addition to the thousand others who simply fail to leave when their visas expire,is somehow a bigot for desiring that tax dollars be spent on citizens first.

  • Doc Anthony

    It’s probably true, as Jana Riess argues, that Donald Trump has a Mormon problem. Or does he?

    Remember, the last time you saw a Mormon (Mitt Romney) preach against The Donald, the sermon garnered five stars with the media, but ZERO conversions with the voting public.

    Somebody better be thankful that it is a non-Mormon, Ted Cruz, who is competing against Trump. Cruz is expected to do well in Utah. But Trump, displaying the usual “Oh No He Didn’t Say That” guts of steel, has essentially blown away Mitt Romney on his own Mormon home turf.

    “Do I love the Mormons? I have many friends that live in Salt Lake City — and by the way, Mitt Romney is not one of them. Are you sure he’s a Mormon? Are we sure?”

    I know, I know, Trump’s all evil and such. But I had to laugh out loud on that one. Only Donald Trump would walk into Utah and attempt it.

    Unlike Romney (and Hillary), Trump’s not afraid to say what he really believes. Straight talk, as it were.

  • Allison

    I think he would more appropriately be called xenophobic or just a “jack*** making generalizations” because of his comments about Mexican illegal immigrants. I have known quite a few myself. The mischaracterization is blatantly false\ignorant.

  • Allison

    I keep hearing this “straight talk” comment, but don’t understand why people appreciate it when the content of the “straight talk” has so little value in and of itself.

  • Kevin JK

    You can call yourself Mormon, but if you don’t believe in the BOM or JS, then you’re not. If you don’t believe in foundational principles, you aren’t part of that group.

    Believing that a Christian baker shouldn’t have to bake a cake for gays simply means that you believe in freedom over force. People are free to make unpopular choices. Government must treat people equally, but individuals have freedom of association.

    I have no problem with the state/federal government enforcing civil rights laws if local govs don’t.

    Libertarian politicians simply promise not to expand government power beyond what it is and to repeal it back to what the Constitution says.

    “To demonize the government in a democracy, you undermine yourself. If it isn’t working for us, its our fault. ”
    Democracy is organized mob rule where 3 wolves and a sheep vote on what to eat for lunch. This is why government must be minimal and the rights of the unpopular minority protected.

  • Kevin JK

    “Everyone is too busy feeling superior and expecting others to do the dirty work for them.”
    We believe in personal responsibility so no one expects others to do ANYTHING for them.

    “When one considers taxation in a democracy to be “theft” one is not contributing to the welfare of the whole..”
    Taxation beyond what is constitutionally allowed IS theft. “contributing to the welfare of the whole” does not justify that.

    “A purely market formed sanitation company will seek maximum profits for minimum effort. This would mean dumping anywhere which would be expedient..”
    The company would have to buy land to build a dump. Well established principle.

    “Our last few recessions were directly the result of failures of finance/banking/accounting industries to police itself.”
    No, the housing bubble was caused by big gov telling banks to lend to unqualified buyers and that gov would guarantee everything. in a free market, banks would have not made those loans and therefore no…

  • yoh

    Whenever you see people talking about “personal responsibility” as a matter of policy, they invariably never speak of themselves. It is always something to be borne by others. Libertarians believe personal responsibility to a community which they reap benefits from is a “taking”.

    What is constitutionally allowable for taxation is much wider in scope than you possibly realize. Short of discriminatory taxation, its pretty much a blank check for government.

    “The company would have to buy land to build a dump. Well established principle.”

    Small government means they cannot be forced to do much of anything beyond what is expedient to them. Nobody could force them to abide by restrictions as to how to dispose of such things. They will simply dump where it will be the least costly short term manner. We already have plenty of real world examples of how ‘small government” enables polluters.

  • yoh

    Also you are totally full of cr@p about the last recession. Banks welcomed high risk mortgages because they were able to recoup from foreclosures in a rising housing market. Nobody was considering the actions were slowly poisoning the market because short term profits always take consideration in a boom period.

    The whole “big banks were forced by government to underwrite shaky mortgages” was never true. Homeowners had to fight lenders to get normal fixed rate mortgages. They were presenting loans geared for short term investors as the norm for home purchase. Something previously not allowed in decades past.

    Deregulation allowed bad property debts to be bundled and sold to mutual funds, retirement accounts and the general public as “mortgage backed securities” causing 2 complementary markets, housing and securities to tank at the same time.

    Big government and sane regulation would have prevented the damage and extent of the last bust.

  • yoh

    “Believing that a Christian baker shouldn’t have to bake a cake for gays simply means that you believe in freedom over force.”

    Libertarianism and bigotry intersecting as I said. A Christian baker wants the freedom to attack the civil liberties of a gay customer. If not for a government willing to uphold the liberties of all citizens, it would be perfectly permissible. Discrimination in open commerce is an attack upon a community, not just the customer. It is the closing off of avenues of business to people for malicious reasons.

    “Democracy is organized mob rule where 3 wolves and a sheep vote on what to eat for lunch.”
    You are right. That is Libertarianism. 3 Wolves act with impunity while the sheep is eaten with nobody to protect it. Government is there to protect the sheep, not enable the wolves.

  • Bob Cohen

    Jana Riess
    This is a disingenuous ,dishonest analyst post.
    Your reasons have nothing to do with Mormonism. This is Republican versus Democrat. If this was Orin Hatch, a VERY decent Mormon, you would be opposing him as well.
    Harry Reid on the other hand, also a Mormon is a slimy despicable politician of a human being. And you have never pointed out his behavior as a bad example of a Mormon.
    Mitt Romney while you disagree with his policies obviously, is a very very decent Mormon and human being and you opposed him claiming Mormonism as a reason.
    Why can’t you just be honest and admit this is about politics not Mormonism/religion.
    If I missed it and you DID say nice things about Orin Hatch, Mitt Romney as decent Mormons, please repost your comments and I will retract my comment.
    Thank you

  • Elder Anderson

    @Bob,
    I read your post. I am not exactly clear what you are mad about.

    Not sure, but you may have misunderstood the title: “Mormon problem” just means “Mormons might not vote for Trump, and that’s a problem for him.”

    So Jana lists 5 reasons why she thinks Mormons (not just her) might not vote for Trump. She’s not saying anything good or bad about Mormonism or other Mormon politicians.

    Judging by the turnout at the Salt Lake City rallies last night she might be right. I believe Sanders had roughly 10 times more people show up than Trump. Since Utah is a heavily Mormon state, it would seem Trump does have a problem with Mormons not supporting him.

    Finally, Jana might or might not be a Democrat or Republican. She can vote for whomever she likes, and she can support whomever she likes on her blog. I don’t see how that’s dishonest.

  • utahdane

    I am a fifth generation Mormon on every line. My ancestors knew Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. I am voting for Trump. Stuff it Romney my ancestry is way more Mormon than you. I am poor and hurting. Not all Mormons are the same.

  • Kevin JK

    “Big government and sane regulation would have prevented the damage and extent of the last bust.”

    If the banks were left alone and had to absorb all of their loses without a government safety net, the loans would have been of much better quality and no housing bubble or “mortgage backed securities” crisis would have occurred. Government interference in an area in which they had no business caused the problem.

    One commentator I know has stated that the bigger the government, the smaller the individual. Big government leads to economic stagnation and corruption.

    Libertarianism and the Gospel both push for maximizing individualism and personal responsibility. All other philosophies advocate using government force (ala Satan) to enforce their subjective moralities. That’s the bottom line of this whole discussion.

  • Kevin JK

    Sure, bigotry is allowed, not encouraged, but allowed. Bigotry against gays and against Christians. You have no problem with bigotry against White CIS males in favor of government sponsored favoritism toward LGBT, women and people of color. Libertarians are simply consistent and don’t play favorites.

    if a baker won’t bake cakes for gays, there will be a number that will. it would be pretty hard for a whole community to be denied products or services. America is too diverse and prejudice free for that to happen.

    Libertarians don’t allow government to violate the rights of the sheep. Democracies that don’t protect the rights of unpopular minorities willingly sacrifice the sheep.

  • Bob Cohen

    Elder
    I’m not mad. It makes no difference to me who Ms. Riess supports.
    I’m just pointing out the inconsistency.
    And I stand by what I say, this has nothing to do with Mormonism. It Republican versus Democrat under the heading “Mormon”
    If Harry Reid runs for re-election and she points out why he is not good for Mormonism, I will concur with you.
    Or if Oren Hatch or any decent Republican mormon runs for elected office, and points out the good qualities representing Mormonism, I will again concur with you.

  • Elder Anderson

    Bob,

    OK. Jana should say “People are not going to support Trump for these 5 reasons…”. No mention of Mormons or Mormonism. Is that what you mean? Would that clear up the inconsistency?

    Also, just to be sure I understand. You know Donald Trump is not a Mormon, right? I think he’s Presbyterian (or claims to be). I am trying to figure out how Trump compares to Reid and Hatch, since Trump isn’t Mormon.

  • Nudely

    Of course Brooks has little room to crow when it comes to honesty.

  • Elder Anderson

    @Jana

    Here’s a great Washington Post article on this topic. Interesting stuff.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/21/why-utah-hates-donald-trump-hint-its-not-just-about-mormonism/

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  • trytoseeitmyway

    Today’s conspiracy theory, eh?

  • trytoseeitmyway

    Supporting the corrupt liar then.

  • trytoseeitmyway

    Maybe they’re really saying, hey, he’s not a corrupt liar. That would begin to make sense. I don’t care for Donald Trump at all, for all the reasons mentioned in the article. But as soon as you bring in the comparison with Hillary Clinton …

  • trytoseeitmyway

    Kevin JK, thanks for speaking up for libertarianism. As a culture, we seem to be losing sight of the benefits of freedom.

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  • yoh

    The guy just made a “separate but equal” argument in favor of discrimination further up. Thank you for demonstrating how vacuous Libertarian are concerning actual civil liberties.

    He’s also dead wrong on how deregulation created the last recession. The bailouts happened after the banks simultaneously tanked real estate and securities through fraudulent self ratings efforts on mortgage backed securities.

    A system which promotes corruption, attacks on civil liberties and government inaction such as Libertarianism has little appeal for those with a modicum of sanity.

  • yoh

    Seriously, separate but equal as justification for discrimination? I can’t even pretend civil liberties are a concern for libertarian. Equal protection under the law means nothing to you. Might makes right appears to be the only dogma you follow.

    Also people so used to undue privilege over others would naturally see expansion of civil liberties as some how an attack on them. As prejudice against them. Oh no, you can’t attack others for bigoted reasons, you are being oppressed! /sarcasm.

    I can’t take you seriously.

  • Kevin JK

    I appreciate being appreciated. in Mormondom, libertarianism isn’t always welcomed. The GOPers think that we are anti-Gospel because we advocate that people have the right to sin. Despite what is taught in the scriptures and temple, they feel that we are apostates. I like to rattle their cages by telling them that the GOP is the party of Satan because it advocates using force to make people adhere to Gospel principles like Satan advocated. you can see the cognitive dissonance flash in their eyes.

  • Kevin JK

    Libertarians believe in civil rights and everyone being treated equally under the law. that’s why Libertarians favor SSM. Your problem is that you want to go past GOVERNMENT treating everyone equally and force ALL to treat people equally…hence bakers being sued. Libertarians believe in letting everyone choose who they will associate with while forcing government to treat ALL equally. You believe in forcing people to do what’s right. Someone else demanded that too eons ago. Could it be…Satan .

    With our culture being so accepting of everyone, there is little chance of any group being denied any products or services. That’s a red herring. Your idea of force is what churches fear. “LDS better open their temples to gay Mormons or we’ll make them”. Businesses are often forced to hire unqualified (but demographically approved) candidates to avoid being sued. The Boston PD got taken to court for not having enough minorities pass their tests.

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  • Arif

    Amen! The truth shall set you free!