• G Key

    Re religion, morality, and who’s infringing on whom:

    I believe the Golden Rule means respecting other people’s personal boundaries, beliefs, belongings, bedrooms, bodies, and business, along with their rights, freedoms, privacy, and equality, as I would have others respect my own.

    Even if I were to oppose an LGBT couple’s marriage, the question of whether to sign their marriage license (or prepare their wedding cake, or cater their reception, or sell them flowers, or rent them a home) would answer itself, since I would realize they are my rightful public customers, not my wrongful private business. And since they are my equals, and their beliefs and values are their own, it would be idle self-indulgence for me to dwell upon their private lives; it would be grossly inappropriate for me to stick my nose into their personal activities; it would be self-righteously narcissistic for me to presume to judge them; and it would be downright immoral of me to try to hold them to my own chosen moral principles. My morality binds me, not them.

    In other words, I see the so-called “religious freedom” issue as a simple and obvious matter of trespass, not of faith.

  • NWaff

    When the Hebrews were in exile in the Old Testament, out of thousands of Hebrews, only 3 refused to compromise their devotion to God and refused to worship a false idle. Most took the position that you described. The 3 experienced a miracle of God and are documented for us to learn from.

  • NWaff

    “non-discrimination” is now the code word / newspeak for the criminalization of Christian morality.

  • Spuddie

    A public restroom is just that public. What little privacy you have is in the stall and that’s about it.. You do not have a right to not have certain kind of people in your field of vision or in close proximity.

    What is your standard of morality? You use hypothetical and dishonest stories to justify attacking the barest form of dignity of other people. Equating trans people with pedophiles is not just dishonest, it is hateful. You have no morality to speak of.

    Truth of the matter is, there have been far more Republican politicians and Christian preachers arrested for lewd behavior in public restrooms than transsexuals.

  • Spuddie

    Said the person who wants to justify denying goods and services to people because they don’t like that particular group.

  • Spuddie

    If you noticed, our laws expressly ignore and forbid even considering the religious commandments to worship only one god. Our laws never have to follow your religious beliefs. In fact they must not.

  • Spuddie

    Suddenly the signs on a bathroom are sacrosanct and inviolable?

    Your only point is you do not want to acknowledge the existence of trans people in your midst. Somehow it is a threat to you. It isn’t.

    As for lewd behavior in public restrooms, I can cough up several news stories on the subject. But I bet you can’t find one about trans pedophiles doing so.

    You are also not on oppressed minority as a Christian. Quite the opposite. You are part of a politically powerful group well known for advocating discrimination of others.

  • DougH

    Right, the minority is to be hammered into the majoritarian mold, no matter how heartfelt their religious belief. The Left’s concept of “freedom” — the freedom to follow the State’s dictats.

  • eustis filmore

    There should be no LGBT rights vs religious rights. Religious rights should be abolished.

  • G Key

    “keep their dignity by not sharing” — Non sequitur.
    “narcissistic to insist on demanding a right” — Slavery.
    “On what do your base your standard of morality?” — Answered and asked.

  • Spuddie

    Anyone who claims being a Christian is being an oppressed minority already misrepresent themselves. The rest just naturally flows from there.

    Your claim to know 2 cross dressing pedophiles in an online discussion is about as credible as any claim I make to being Scarlett Johansson’s secret lover. As for republican politicians and public bathrooms, please see: Larry Craig, Jon Hinson and Bob Allen. For pastors see Robert Lyzenga and Duane Youngblood.

    Your concern about trans people using bathrooms shows zero genuine concern and more bent g over having to suffer the acknowledged existence of people you do not like and or fear.

  • Her Leftness

    For example:

    A 60 year old trans man (born with female genitalia) has been taking hormones for 30 years, has mustache and beard, deep voice, surgical penis and scrotum, no more breasts than the average 60 year old man. Has a wife and children.

    Now he must use the women’s restroom and locker room. Are you serious?!?

  • Her Leftness

    “actually make a pass at me in a public bathroom and persistently tried to entice me back in”

    So an adult made a pass at another adult. So what?

  • Her Leftness

    What “minority” are you talking about? The transgender people? Yes, Christianists are trying to hammer them into the “majoritarian mold.” Agreed. So are you claiming that comes from the Left? Try again.

  • DougH

    So refusing to be an accessory to activities that violates one’s religion count as “hammering them into the majoritarian mold,” but demanding that someone be an accessory to that activity doesn’t? You might want to remove the blinders.

  • G Key

    I simply cut-and-pasted your words; I did not misquote you.

    I stand by my assertion that refusing to share has nothing to do with — and is not logically linked to — maintaining dignity.

    I have nothing whatsoever against Christianity, and I’m sincerely delighted to agree with you that the slaves were indeed freed by respectful, socially-minded Christians such as Harriet Tubman and Abraham Lincoln. Famously, great masses of respectful, socially-minded voters, including many Christians, left the Republican Party for the Democratic Party in the 1960s, when Republican Party leaders such as George Wallace decided to oppose Kennedy and Johnson on basic social issues such as legal equality and civil rights. This dramatic switch in Republican values led to the resurrection of despicable organizations such as the KKK, neo-Nazis, etc.

    I stated my beliefs about the Golden Rule. That is my morality. I assumed that was eminently clear, and regret my assumption. (Incidentally, I learned my morality from my very loving, very respectful, and very devout Christian parents.)

  • Her Leftness

    That’s silly Tom. We’re not talking about animals.

    So you do want that big, hairy guy walking into the bathroom with women and girls?

  • Her Leftness

    I’m still wondering what majority and minority you’re talking about.

  • Richard Rush

    You obviously suffer from Gender Obsession Disorder.

  • Richard Rush

    You’re apparently a graduate of the TrueChristian Debate Institute: If you don’t have a legitimate argument against ‘x,’ then change the subject to ‘y’ and insist that it’s just like ‘x.’