Beliefs Culture Politics

Indonesian president says he believes in witchcraft

Official presidential portrait of Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (2004–2009)

(RNS) Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono may be the first Indonesian president to acknowledge publicly he believes in witchcraft. In a recently published memoir, he describes a “horror movie” style encounter with black magic at his residence.

Official presidential portrait of Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (2004–2009)

Photo courtesy of Govt. of Indonesia [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons

Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono may be the first Indonesian president to acknowledge publicly he believes in witchcraft.

“Suddenly, my wife screamed,” writes Yudhoyono in the 900-page book, “Selalu Ada Pilihan” (There is Always a Choice). “There was this thick dark cloud hovering beneath the ceiling, trying to enter my bedroom. I then asked everybody to pray to seek Allah’s help. I closed the door to my room but left others wide open. The revolving clouds eventually headed out of my house.”

Witchcraft is prohibited in Islam. However, the practice is widespread in Indonesia, which has the world’s largest Muslim population. A 2012 survey by the Pew Forum showed that 69 percent of Indonesian Muslims believe witchcraft is real.

“Many people in Indonesia, including its top leaders, turn to soothsayers to consult about their careers, fortunes and marriages,” said Endy Bayuni, senior editor at The Jakarta Post.

However, a president sharing this information publicly is unprecedented, Bayuni added. Yudhoyono’s second — and last — presidential term is ending this year.

Yudhoyono lives in his private residence, not at the 19th-century presidential palace in Jakarta, which is considered haunted, Bayuni said. Only two presidents, Sukarno from 1945-1965 and Abdurrahman Wahid from 1999-2001, made the palace their residence.

In September 2010, Yudhoyono skipped a meeting of the U.S. and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations held on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly in New York, partly because of “rumors of rampant witchcraft in the palace,” according to a WikiLeaks cable.

Yudhoyono believes in witchcraft, but perhaps only as a menace. His government last year proposed amendments to the 1918 Criminal Code, adding a clause that states using black magic to cause “someone’s illness, death, mental or physical suffering” is an offense with a punishment of up to five years in jail or 300 million rupiah ($25,000) in fines.


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Vishal Arora


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  • Imagine this?
    He believes in Witchcraft.

    Just another horrific headline – thanks to Bronze Age nonsense.

    Religion is poison.

  • Muslims say witchcraft is real.
    The Christian bible says witchcraft is real.

    But witchcraft is just a myth, so they’re both pathetically wrong.

  • Of course, the atheist Josef Stalin wiped out tens of millions of humans. Atheist Mao Tse Tung’s “Great Leap Forward” killed ANOTHER tens of millions of humans.

    But you’re not ready to say “Beliefs which lead to homicide deserve ridicule” when it comes to your own atheism, are you?

  • Doc, Just want to point out that neither one of your examples killed people because of their lack of religious beliefs, whereas Larry pointed out that those who kill people who they believe are witches, do so because of their religious beliefs; just saying.

    Religion is poison!

  • No . . . . what is poison is atheism . . . which led to the biggest mass murders in history . . . under communism in the 20th century.

  • And you think you are right? Ha! Over one half the population on earth is either Muslim or Christian and you are only one little . . . very little .. person.

  • That’s right. And they killed precisely because they were atheists — they felt they had no higher authority to answer to & they believed they would never face judgement after death.

  • ROB,

    That is a reckless slander on Atheists! Hitler was a devout Christian:

    “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

    That is not an Atheist talking!
    Nobody ever killed anyone to because they wouldn’t become Atheists!!!

    Religion does cause the worst suffering in the world – you don’t seem to know it – but here is the evidence:

    It is a SLANDER TO ATHEISTS to say that killers Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists:

    It is a common talking point amongst Christians to attribute the horrors committed by infamous world leaders to atheism. Some Atheists have trouble refuting the claims because the lie is so broadly applied and overdone.

    One example from last year, Anglican Archbishop Peter Jensen told his Australian congregation that atheism is “not the rational philosophy that it claims to be.” He stated, “Last century we tried godlessness on a grand scale and the effects were devastating: Nazism, Stalinism, Pol Pot-ery, mass murder, abortion and broken relationships – all promoted by state-imposed atheism…the illusion that we can build a better life without God.” He further stated, “It’s about our determination as human beings to have our own way, to make our own rules, to live our own lives, unfettered by the rule of God and the right of God to rule over us…What we’re really seeing, once more [is] an example of the contest between human beings and God over who rules the world.”

    It is lost on Peter Jensen that Atheists simply do not believe in God! We so no evidence of it!

    Atheist Foundation president David Nicholls called this an act of desperation by the church. But “desperation” is an understatement.

    There are so many things wrong with Jensen’s statements it is hard to find a starting point. But the sheer arrogance that a god rules the world regardless of whether or not anyone actually believes in one, the utterly ridiculous notion of a struggle between “god and man” (is this god incapable of winning?), or their dogma about not being able to achieve peace, happiness and harmony in our society without their god.

    First of all, there has never been such thing as “state-imposed Atheism”.
    It isn’t possible.

    A state can ban religion, but it cannot ban ATHEISM because it is NOT a belief, a faith, or a set of doctrines or dogmas and CANNOT be imposed on anybody.

    Atheism is an absence of belief, and you cannot ban something that does not exist. I have heard the argument so many times from believers who think that atheism is a belief. They compare it to a religion. They say it takes faith. They accuse us of hating god. Believers really need to find another line of fire, as all of these arguments only serve to make them look like complete idiots, which is unnecessary, as many believers are otherwise intelligent individuals.

    These are illegitimate arguments. You can look them up.

    So, look at the claims about Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mass Murder.
    None of them said “I don’t believe in god, therefore I will slaughter lots of innocent people”.

    Let’s start with Adolf Hitler…

    Christians have been trying to discredit Hitler’s faith for decades, turning their eyes away from countless history books. From the earliest formation of the Nazi party he expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. He was baptized as Roman Catholic in Austria, attended a monastery school and was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

    Hitler was confirmed as a “SOLDIER of CHRIST” and his goal was to become a priest. He was never excommunicated or condemned and the church had stated that he was “Avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

    Hitler was given veto power over whom the Pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany and forged a treaty whereas the National Socialist state was officially recognized by the Catholic Church. In a letter to the Nazi party, he wrote “…this treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie.”

    He allied with Pope Pius in converting German society and made a deal with the church whereas the church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons, and in turn, Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This lead to Hitler enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home.

    Hitler was quoted, “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today…Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.”

    In fact, the Holocaust grew out of Hitler’s Christian education due mainly to Jews having an inferior status in Christian Austria and Germany. The Christians there blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus and the hatred that Hitler fostered against Jewish people began from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany. It is well known that Martin Luther held a livid hatred for Jews and their religion. Luther wrote a book titled “On the Jews and their Lies” which set the standard for Jewish hatred all the way up to World War 2.
    Hitler, of course, expressed enormous admiration for Martin Luther.

    The Nazis began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught. They included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961. Nazi soldiers wore religious symbols and placed religious sayings on military gear. The official army belt buckle read “God With Us”. They got sprinkled with holy water and listened to Catholic sermons before going out on maneuvers. The Nazis had a secret service called the “SS Reich” that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens and if anyone was suspected of heresy they would be prosecuted.

    Here is Hitler’s commitment to Christianity:
    “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

    “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922

    “Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition.” -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf

    “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

    Yes – Hitler is gone.
    But the Bible unfortunately is still with us…
    To be used again and again to spread its ridiculous lies and to inflame the same hatreds whenever history feels the time is right!

    Had enough of Hitler? OK, let’s move on to Stalin:

    Joseph Stalin was raised to be a Catholic Priest and I remain curious as to why his Christianity is shoved aside in all these arguments. Yes, there is no way to get around the fact that in his early career, Stalin made a vast effort to rid Russia of religion, but that had NOTHING to do with ATHEISM. It was the only way he knew to seize power of the country.
    For generations the entire populace of Russia had been taught that the head of state was supposed to be CLOSE TO GOD (CZAR).

    At the time in question, the head of the church in Russia was a tyrant. The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place HIMSELF in the position of god. Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church in order to intensify patriotic support for the war effort. Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.

    Stalin rose to power on religion – and he was not exactly an atheist himself. He was more a secular minded religious opportunist, which is a personal character trait. He did not use Atheism to gain control, but religious principles that were modified to fit his own, sick and twisted method of revolution.

    What about Pol Pot?

    Truly a monster, having killed some twenty-five percent of the entire population of Cambodia. Pol Pot targeted not just different religions, but education, science and medicine in his quest for total domination.

    Now, let’s take a head count of ATHEISTS who are against education, science and medicine!!!!

    Thought so… Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge were composed of Buddhists and Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist. He studied at a Buddhist monastery and then at a Catholic school for 8 years. Cambodia’s communism was influenced by Theravada Buddhism.

    Prince Norodom Sihanouk said, “Pol Pot does not believe in a particular God but he thinks that a supernatural heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know…”

    So, while Pol Pot was definitely not a Christian, he was also definitely not an Atheist.

    Let’s get on with some Mass Murder, shall we?
    Add up the deaths that were attributed to Hitler, Stalin and Pot. Then round up for good measure. You can safely say that the number is staggering. Probably upwards of fifteen million.

    However, consider the following conflicts where THE ONLY differences between the opposing factions were and are religion:

    • Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
    • Algeria, 1992-
    • Baha’is, 1848-54
    • Bosnia, 1992-95
    • Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
    • Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
    • Croatia, 1991-92
    • English Civil War, 1642-46
    • Holocaust, 1938-45
    • Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
    • India, 1992-2002
    • India: Suttee & Thugs
    • Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
    • Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
    • Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
    • Jews, 1348
    • Jonestown, 1978
    • Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
    • Molucca Is., 1999-
    • Mongolia, 1937-39
    • Northern Ireland, 1974-98
    • Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
    • St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
    • Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
    • Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
    • Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
    • Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834
    • Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
    • Thirty Years War, 1618-48
    • Tudor England
    • Vietnam, 1800s
    • Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
    • Xhosa, 1857
    • Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
    • Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
    • Al Qaeda, 1993-
    • Crusades, 1095-1291
    • Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
    • Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s

    If you add up all of the lives that were lost in the name of one religion or another, you come up with a staggering figure that is in excess of eight-hundred-million.

    800,000,000 people dead JUST BECAUSE OF RELIGION.

    That’s eight-hundred-million. An eight, followed by eight zeros.

    So, even if the believers who are uneducated enough to think that Hitler, Stalin and Pot were psychotic mass murderers because they thought these men were atheists, it is horrifically clear that religious murder wins out.

    Abortion and Broken lives…
    To attribute abortion to atheism is utterly ridiculous, as there are many Christians who support it.
    As far as broken relationships go, it is common knowledge that the divorce rate amongst Christians is higher than the rate of divorce among atheists.

    Most Christians already know this. However, what they might not know is that the divorce rate amongst specifically non-believers of any faith – atheists – is demonstrably lower than that of believers, which only proves that the reason, rationality and personal responsibility that is dominant in most atheists serves as a better base for a relationship than an imaginary being that requires credulous servitude and a conceited desire to place himself above that of ones spouse and family.

    Although the audacity of the Catholic Church continues to astound me in their attempts to bury their dirty laundry, the majority of the Christian community blaming atheism for the atrocities that have been committed largely in the name of religion or religious ideologies remains on of the pinnacles of arrogance.

    If I listed all of the atrocities committed directly by the church from it’s inception, you would be finished reading it right before the coroner arrived to collect you for death by old age!

    By and large, the church is only interested in protecting itself, it’s power and it’s wealth and will do so however it can, using whatever means necessary.

    Only when we abandon all the supernatural nonsense of religion will humans finally have a chance to work out our problems and start building healthy societies.

  • Great response Atheist Max. I’d go one step further and suggest that what Christopher Hitchens described would be an ideal atheist state. Quote:
    In reponse to a question from the audience during Q&A at the Hitchens v Hitchens debate which asked how Christopher could defend atheism in light of the murderous “atheist” states of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc., Christopher replied: “For there to be a fair test of this you’d have to do the following…and noone has even tried it…….you find me a state, or a society, that threw off theocracy and threw off religion and said “we adopt the teachings of Lucretius, and Democritus, and Gallileo, and Darwin, and Spinoza, and Russell, and Jefferson, and Thomas Payne, and we make those what we teach our children; we make that scientific and rational humanism our teaching” and you find me that state that did that and fell into tyranny and slavery and famine and torture and then we’ll be on a level playing field. All you’ve done is show that the idea of worship and the idea of credulity and the idea of servitude and slavery to religion is a bad idea in the first place.”
    Sounds like a plan to me. I’d love to live in that state. 

  • It seems to me that the argument is not really between religion and atheism, rather it is between good and evil.

    As the bible tells us, there is an ongoing battle between God and his angels on the one hand and the forces of the fallen angel Satan who rebelled against God and was banished for his efforts.

    Satan uses the destruction of God-created human beings by war, murder, suicide etc. as one of the ways to continue to rebel. He uses an individual’s self-interest over the needs and rights of others, for example the ever increasing need for instant self-gratification that one gains from various forms of addiction to drugs including alcohol, gambling, sexual abuse, self harm etc. And of course he positively encourages the idea that there is no God! And he also encourages the idea that he does not exist either! Satan is seeking to gain control of the souls of people and have them adore him and not God.

    Thank God that he has given us his love and mercy which we can rely on to bring us to a deep and intimate relationship with him if we only open the door to our heart and ask him to come in.

  • “Hitler was a devout Christian” you say?

    Tell us when we can take you seriously.

    In the meantime, you keep on believing that (godless evolution) where if you stare at a rock long enough it will turn into a squirrel.

  • “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the
    work of the Lord.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf) ”

    You believe a liar?

    To Satanists (which Hitler was a devout believer) “Lord” is the devil.
    Hitler was baptized Catholic, but denounced it when he was a teenager and for the rest of his life. He rounded up priests and had them murdered and/or sent to prison camps.

  • Yes Soviet-style Communism deserves ridicule. As do people who pretend they are the sole representatives of atheism.

    Hate to break the news to you, but religious belief has nothing to do with the misdeeds of mass murdering dictators except to offer an excuse for the masses.

    Since you are dependent on talking points rather than actual facts, you should also know both Mao and Stalin had no problems supporting religion in their nations when the needs suited them. Religion and atheism were merely means to ends.

  • AtheistMax, you are slandering Christians. That’s why you choose a site that is about religion—-to slander Christians. SHAME.


    Do you understand what Religion is? It is Credulity. Gullibility.
    It is “Faith” in superstitious claims for which there is no evidence.

    Joseph Stalin was a Orthodox Seminarian – he knew how to play the faith card. Lysenko’s ‘miracles’ were for public worship!

    Pol Pot was a Buddhist who believed in Heaven – he wiped out the intellectuals! What Atheist would ever do that? Name one!

    Hitler was a Catholic – His birthday was celebrated by the church well into WW2 with church bells in April! He was never excommunicated! Read Mein Kampf! Jesus was his entire life!

    Mao was like Stalin – worship of a LAND GOD! The State as religion! Like the Czar who intercedes with God for the people.


  • Alayne,
    You said, “Why ridicule what others believe?”

    Because insanity is not healthy, perhaps?
    Show me clear evidence that Suicide Bombers are right about Allah and you might have a point – but til then I’ll call these people all sorts of names.
    Okay for you?

    “He who believes in absurdities will commit atrocities” – Voltaire

  • CIAO,

    You said, “you are slandering Christians”

    No, Christians and Muslims are victims of the same untruth.

    You are in favor of God’s preachments which happen to include recommending the killing and raping of innocent people.

    You preach Hell to children, which has been shown to cause psychological damage – though you have no evidence for hell.

    You defend by default a series of irresponsible faith-based initiatives regardless of evidence to the contrary.

    You claim a ONE TRUE faith while unwittingly encouraging others their own mutually opposed faiths which lead to nothing but conflict.

    You are against scientific evidence and in favor of servility to ancient cultural delusions contrary to all human freedom in word and in deed.

    My hope is that you will stop doing most of that.

  • CIAO,

    You asked, “So what brings you to a religious news site?”

    A sense of near panic.

    Not a day goes by without some religious incident MAKING THE HEADLINES. There is no bigger story in the world today than religion and its devastating consequences. 9/11 was only the start.

    Religion and the insanity of its adherents is the most pressing threat to civilization today. I am interested in any evidence that God is real (I have seen none) and I am interested in any evidence that Secularism is on the rise (thankfully there is hope).

    Religion must be abandoned. Before it is too late.


    You said, “Satan uses the destruction of God-created human beings by war, murder, suicide etc.”

    Puzzle this out, then….So do the people who claim “God is on their side”.
    Every Nazi had it written on his belt buckle.

    We need to abandon religion altogether. We really DO KNOW how to behave better without this ancient nonsense.

    There is no evidence for Satan OR God.

  • Just because people have killed in the name of religion does not mean God does not exist. Jesus chose 12 of whom 11 deserted him, 1 denied him and 1 betrayed him. He founded His church on weak men which we all are, yet he still founded His church which the gates of Hell will not destroy,.

    Check out apparitions of Fatima where 70,000 saw the miracle of the sun on October 13th, 1917 which the Portugese press wrote about the next day. Check out the apparitions that are happeneing around the world where statues are crying tears of blood. Akita Japan is one that has been approved. All the natural disasters we are experiencing will lead up to a great chastisement of fire which will destroy a great part of humanity.

    If this does not convince you, look at our bodies, someone disigned them. Look at the universe, it is all mathematically precise. Watch the dvd Bethlehem star, and you will see how God wired the universe so precisely it has to be created by a supreme being. And if this does not convince you, go outside the next time it snows and see if you can make a snowman just standing there thinking about it.

  • Atheist Max – How dense can you be???? Nazis were communists and did NOT believe in ANY religion. They ONLY USED the excuse of Jews being “Christ Killers” in order to JUSTIFY their agenda to do away with them. What you also don’t know is that many Catholics were murdered in the concentration camps because of their beliefs. Many Catholic churches hid Jews from the Nazis disguising them as priests and nuns and hiding their children in the basements and in hidden walls. ALSO, Saint Maximilliam Kolbe was a Catholic priest who suffered greatly in Auschwitz and gave his own life in exchange for a Jewish man so that the Jewish man could live. What a sacrifice! If you honestly believe these Nazis were devout Catholics because they went around declaring so and engraved mantras on their belt buckles, you are so naive and mistaken it’s sad.

  • Hi Atheist Max.
    You will never be able to root religion out of humanity because there really is a God and a supernatural reality that people; honest to goodness; connect with, and on top of that your numbers are a gross exaggeration.
    Many so called religious wars were really politically motivated. Ambitious men and women have always been willing to play the religion card to get others to do their dirty and dangerous deeds. Ambitious families too often would place their sons in the medieval church to give younger sons a place of honor and to protect family interests. This problem was most likely not confined to Christianity, it’s human nature.
    Even if you could get rid of religion you would not get rid of war. It is in our nature, we would find some other way like say the Green Atheist’s vs the Red Atheists.
    I admire your determination though!

  • Well you have shown that religion certainly does not prepare people to think critically.

    Every instance of “bleeding statues” has been shown to be hoaxes. Look at our bodies. Pretty badly designed. Gravity works against the design of bipedalism. So many engineering leftovers and inefficiencies that barely function properly without constant attention.

  • Are you homeschooled or just ignorant?

    Nazis were communists? I am sure 15 million people in the USSR would have liked to believe that that before they were wiped out by the Nazis. Nazis enlisted the support of Catholic and Lutheran churches and merely appropriated their own anti-Semitic doctrines for state purposes.

    Many Catholics were murdered for their belief in not having their countries dominated by the Nazis. Plenty of them also collaborated with the Nazis as well. Christianity figured well into recruiting conquered people into fighting for the Nazis on the Eastern Front.

  • Guest444,

    You said, “The Nazis were Communists”
    No. They were National Socialists.

    You said, “They “only USED” religion to do evil!”
    Yes. Thank You. Religion is Dynamite. Thanks for agreeing with me.

    Hitler’s favorite Parable (we all have one) was the “Parable of the 12 Minas” where Jesus plays the part of the nobleman king whose servants must behave:
    “Bring me those MY ENEMIES, AND EXECUTE THEM in front of me” – said Jesus
    (Luke 19:27)

    Beware anyone who calls himself a “true” Christian. This is a nightmare.

    You said, “Even if you could get rid of religion you would not get rid of war”

    But consider:

    Democracies rarely go to war against each other.
    But Theocracies are dictatorships, they thrive on war with everyone.

    Atheists rarely fight.
    But Christians, Muslims and Jews are innately opposed.

    Though we cannot rid the world of religion, a more secular world would be more peaceful.

  • Atheists never fight?!

    You sound like the typical Dawkins-style brainwashed worshipper who believes in this moronic propaganda.

    I hope someone frees you from your mental and intellectual and spiritual bondage of lies and vitriole and inability to comprehend Truth….

    No-I hope and PRAY…..

  • WHAT??? Stare at a rock and it will turn into a squirrel????
    What kind of nonsensical crap is THAT???
    You, my dear friend, have not concept ONE of what evolution is. Why don’t you educate yourself before you make such idiotic comments?

  • Because their “beliefs”! have absolutely no basis in FACT. They are only beliefs that have been passed down from generation to generation with empty unobtainable promises to the believers and a life of luxury and idleness to the perpetuators of the “beliefs”.

  • Yeah and well over half the world are a bunch of complete morons when it comes to any understanding of what this life is all about. They need to BELIEVE that is is something else. Oh sure, religion have much to recommend them in showing us that we can be kind to one another and help each other in our lives but so much strife and abject HORROR has come out of religion as well that the good stuff is far outweighed by the crap.

  • True that Doc Anthony 🙂

    Atheist Max, and others, may not to denied the truth itself

    Religion is one of the political believe, and that’s what make many who follow the doctrine that not even make any sense according to reality life, and especially the connection between God and mankind.
    Anything that happened and what it’s happening now, it is because the greediness of the politician who want to be in power and want to control the world, both inside the perspective place where they at, and also the perspective destination place that they have desire to it. Religion is one of the other reason that has been used by the politician who are naive enough, and also to get in power to control others by using it’s believe and to force others.
    Christianity, or Christ followers are not religion symbolic, only to whom who are naive with what they have are not knowledge at all that they (atheist) classified Christianity as religion, and the same as other believers as well, but the fact that Christian is the spiritual believe in the name of God as Alva and Omega.

    The fact that:

    We all already past the history of Old Testament, ans already enter the New Testament, and many of us living in the Christ world with peace, love etc., where many nations are using Christ calender for the start, and we don’t use any kind of other name for calender to be done as our day, month, year, and time to be in our perspective activities.

    Once again, evil politician who the one make all the chaos all over the places in this world in every types of matters, and religion it’s some other part to be used for achievement in their political agenda to recruit others to become great in their organization, so at the end, they could take power easily to others. Example:

    After the civilization change according to the perspective phenomena on each places concerned of life, that bring the politician and politics etc: Mohammad Amin al-Husseini (also spelled al-Husayni) was a Palestinian Arab nationalist known for his Jew-hatred and his bitter opposition to the establishment of a Jewish state in the territory of the British Palestine Mandate. He served as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem from 1921 to 1948 and cooperated with Nazi Germany during World War II, helping to recruit Muslims for Adolph Hitler’s dreaded Waffen-SS. Widely known as “Palestine’s national leader” and the founding father of the Palestinian movement, al-Husseini made an alliance with Hitler and played an active role in promoting the Holocaust. Al-Husseini was born in Jerusalem in 1895. His father was a prominent Muslim cleric, and numerous members of his clan were wealthy landowners in Judea; thirteen of them served as mayors of Jerusalem. Husseini briefly studied Islamic law at the Al-Azhar University in Cairo, and thereafter attended the School of Administration in Istanbul. In 1913 he made his pilgrimage to Mecca in observation of the Hajj. At the outset of World War I in 1914, al-Husseini joined the Ottoman Turkish army as an artillery officer and was stationed in the city of Smyrna. He was thereafter employed by the British military administration in Jerusalem and was charged with recruiting soldiers for King Faisal’s army during the Arab Revolt. Following the War, al-Husseini became a teacher at the Rashidiya School in Jerusalem. It was at this time that he began actively opposing the presence of Jews in Jerusalem. In 1920 during the religious festival of Nabi Musa, al-Husseini instigated a pogrom against indigenous Palestinian Jews. After conviction in absentia, he was pardoned by British Mandate Governor Herbert Samuel, who was himself a British Jew. Following the incident, al-Husseini fled the region but was eventually sentenced to ten years imprisonment, in absentia, for his role in the riot. Thanks to the influence of Herbert Samuel, in 1921 al-Husseini was appointed Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. The following year he was elected President of the newly formed Supreme Muslim Council, a post which conferred upon him additional funding and power. As Grand Mufti, al-Husseini accused local Jews of scheming to demolish the Al-Aqsa Mosque and to take control of numerous Muslim holy sites. He authorized the harassment of Jewish worshippers. These incidents eventually escalated into open violence. In what have come to be known as the 1929 Palestine riots, more than 130 Jews were murdered by Arabs in a dispute over access to Jerusalem’s Western Wall. In late March 1933, al-Husseini contacted the German consul general in Jerusalem and requested German help in eliminating Jewish settlements in Palestine—offering, in exchange, a pan-Islamic jihad in alliance with Germany against Jews around the world. He informed the German consul that “the Muslims inside and outside Palestine welcome the new [Hitler] regime of Germany and hope for the extension of the fascist anti-democratic, governmental system to other countries.” In an effort to bring Nazism to his own country, al-Husseini organized the “Nazi Scouts,” based on the “Hitler Youth.” The swastika became a welcome symbol among many Palestinians. Inter-religious violence between Muslims and Jews again erupted in 1936, with al-Husseini using waqf and orphan funds to recruit bands of militants to attack Jewish settlers. In the beginning the targets were defenseless Jewish civilians in hospitals, movie theatres, homes, and stores. This was followed by strikes and shop closures, and then by the bombing of British offices. The regimes of the German Nazis and the Italian fascists supported the violence, sending millions of dollars worth of aid to the Mufti. The German SS, under the leadership of Heinrich Himmler, provided both financial and logistical support for anti-Semitic pogroms in Palestine. Adolf Eichmann, architect of the Holocaust, visited al-Husseini in Palestine and subsequently maintained regular contact with him. Al-Husseini then was put on the Nazi payroll. In 1937, al-Husseini went into hiding after learning that British police were en route to arrest him. He was removed from the presidency of the Muslim Supreme Council, and the Arab Higher Committee was declared illegal. Disguised as a woman, al-Husseini fled to Lebanon, where he would remain for two years. From his base there, he used Nazi funds to instigate the Arab Revolt of 1937-1939. In 1939 al-Husseini moved his base of operations (and pro-Nazi propadanda) to Iraq, where he helped establish the strongly pro-German Rashid Ali al-Gaylani as prime minister, and then to Berlin in 1941. In 1941 al-Husseini played a key role in instigating a pro-Nazi coup in Iraq. Following the collapse of the coup, al-Husseini helped spark the Fahud, or the murder campaign against the indigenous Jews of Iraq — a campaign that has been compared to the kristalnacht in Germany. While in Nazi Germany, al-Husseini directly participated in the Holocaust against the Jews by preventing the exchange of Jews for German POWs and instead insuring that they went to the crematoria. Al-Husseini led in the effort to train Bosnian Muslim brigades and other Muslim European brigades who were involved in many atrocities. He also funneled money from the sonderfund — money that had been looted from Jews when they were sent to the concentration camps — and he sent those funds to the Middle East to be used to promote Nazi and anti-Jewish propaganda. On November 28, 1941, al-Husseini met with Adolph Hitler in Berlin, where he was treated as a visiting head of state. Hitler promised al-Husseini that the latter would be chief administrator of the Arab world after the Nazi “liberation.” Al-Husseini asked Hitler for a declaration of support for the Arabs, and for assistance in the quest to eliminate any possibility that a national Jewish homeland might be established. To this request, Hitler pledged: (a) that he would carry on the fight “until the last traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been obliterated”; (b) that the German army would gain the southern exit of the Caucasus; and (c) that he (Hitler) would, at the appropriate time, offer the Arab world his personal assurance that “the hour of liberation had struck,” and that “Germany’s only remaining objective in the region would be limited to the annihilation of the Jews living under British protection in Arab lands.” Following his meeting with Hitler, al-Husseini recruited Muslims for the German armed forces. He helped to organize a Muslim component of the Waffen-SS, a combat division of hardline Nazi soldiers who were notorious for torturing and murdering European Jews. On March 1, 1944, speaking on Radio Berlin, al-Husseini declared: “Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you.” While in Germany, al-Husseini was taken on a tour of Auschwitz by Himmler and expressed support for the mass murder of European Jews. At Auschwitz, al-Husseini reportedly admonished the guards operating the gas chambers to work more diligently. Al-Husseini also sought to “solve the problems of the Jewish element in Palestine and other Arab countries” by employing “the same method” being used “in the Axis countries.” He would not be satisfied with the Jewish residents of Palestine — many of whom were descendants of Sephardic Jews who had lived there for hundreds, even thousands, of years — remaining as a minority in a Muslim state. Like Hitler, he wanted to be rid of “every last Jew.” As al-Husseini wrote in his memoirs: “Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: ‘The Jews are yours.’” The Mufti was apparently planning to return to Palestine in the event of a German victory. He planned to construct a death camp, modeled after Auschwitz, near Nablus. He incited his pro-Nazi followers with the words “Arise, o sons of Arabia. Fight for your sacred rights. Slaughter Jews wherever you find them. Their spilled blood pleases Allah, our history and religion. That will save our honor.” Hitler promised al-Husseini that as soon as German troops were able to drive the British out of Palestine and exterminate the more than 350,000 Jews who were living there, he (the Mufti) would be installed as the leader of the region. In 1944, a German-Arab commando unit under al-Husseini’s command parachuted into Palestine and poisoned Tel Aviv’s wells. Al-Husseini also helped to organize thousands of Muslims in the Balkans into military units known as Handselar divisions which carried out atrocities against Yugoslav Jews, Serbs and Gypsies. During thw WWII years, al-Husseini was paid the extraordinarily large sum of 50,000 marks per month (when the average German field marshal was earning 25,000 marks per year). After the end of World War II, al-Husseini escaped to Switzerland but was captured and sent to France. During the Nuremberg trials, Adolf Eichmann’s deputy Dieter Wisliceny testified that al-Husseini “was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures.” After all the evidence had been presented, al-Husseini was declared a Nazi war criminal. In 1946, before he could be sentenced for his crimes, al-Husseini again escaped and was given refuge in Egypt, where he helped to organize many former Nazis and Nazi sympathizers against Israel. While in Egypt, he also met the young Yasser Arafat, his distant cousin, who became a devoted protégé—to the point that Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization would later recruit former Nazis as terrorist instructors. Up until the time of his death, Arafat would continue to pay homage to the Grand Mufti as his hero and mentor. In 1948 al-Husseini helped persuade the Egyptian military to participate in the war that saw five Arab armies try to annihilate Israel on the very day of its creation. Al-Husseini’s pro-Nazi sympathies and support were widespread among his Palestinian followers, who regarded him as a hero even after the war and the disclosure of his role in Nazi atrocities. According to his biographer: “Amin’s popularity among the Palestinian Arabs and within the Arab states actually increased more than ever during his period with the Nazis … [because] large parts of the Arab world shared this sympathy with Nazi Germany during the Second World War.” In 1948 the National Palestinian Council elected al-Husseini as its President, even though he was still a wanted war criminal living in exile in Egypt. It was not merely opposition to Zionism that animated al-Husseini’s support for Nazi ideology. The Grand Mufti’s hatred of Jews was immense. His speeches on Berlin Radio were anti-Semitic to the core. Over the course of the 1950s, al-Husseini lost most of his political influence. On July 4, 1974, he died in Beirut, Lebanon. Many Palestinians continue to revere him as a national hero.

    You think as real Christian like you see on Hitler? Don’t be naive, that’s not a Christian but evil politician scumbag. Let’s not just think about Hitler, but have a look at others former leader from any perspective country concern who are been disturb Israel, or even in Maluku (Moluccas) in their perspective time a long ago, and it is Karma to those who made such as sin.

    God statement:

    God is the only redeemer: Isaiah, 43:1-7

    But thus saith the Lord who created you, O Israel:
    “Do not be afraid, for I have redeemed you, Wherever I call thee by thy name, thou art mine.

    2. If you wade through the water, I will be with you, or through the rivers, you will not be washed away; when you walk through the fire, thou shalt not be burned, and flames will not burn you.

    3. Because I am the Lord your God, the Most Holy, the God of Israel, your Savior. I redeemed you with Egypt, Ethiopia and Sheba and give instead of you.

    4. Because you are precious in My sight and honored, and I love you, then the man in exchange I give you, and nations in exchange for your life.

    5. Do not be afraid, for I am with you, I will bring thine offspring from the east, and I will gather you from the west.

    6. I would say to the north: Give! and to the south: Do not bear-proof! Bring the little children of men from far away, and little children of women from the ends of the earth,

    7. all those mentioned by my name that I put myself to glory, that my form and that too overcome with! ”

    Click on the link to follow more about the truth:

    Many nations on this earth, but it doesn’t mean that all the nations are falling down from the sky just like that in their perspective places, but it all from the process of human being in their perspective activities.

    Proves falsity of the ideology of Islam and the truth of Christianity as the true followers of Jesus.

    1). Hadith Muslim Letter sahik 1, paragraph 164, states: that Muhammad himself was not able to save his followers, why?

    The answer: In verse 46 Surah Al Ahqaf 9; declared Muhammad himself did not know whether he survived or not!

    2). In Surah AZ, Zukkuf 43-61 which states, Jesus knew the Day of Resurrection, Jesus is the straight path to heaven. Same with the Bible statement in verse John 14-6.

    3). Muslim Hadith Surah 3, verse 5421, stated: when Muhammad was going to die, Muhammad said: O Jesus son of Mary, into your hands, I will leave my life. ”

    And holy AL AHQAAF 9, states that: Muhammad himself did not believe or doubt, when he died later will go to heaven or not, so that through parts in 33 AL Ahzab 56, states that: in the name of God and angels to pray for the salvation of Muhammad to enter PROPHET Shalawat heaven with prayer.

    But a true prophet sent by God like Moses (father of the Torah) and Jesus / Prophet Jesus (Mr Gospel) if they die, it will go to heaven and do not need in prayer by the people to keep them, so in the Bible does not have the slightest who said about the Prophet Moses begged his prayers SHAWALAT PROPHET, even more so Jesus, let alone asking people to SHAWALAT pray for him, even on the contrary people who pray for the salvation of his people (John 17:1-26) And even he himself who gives salvation (John 14 :1-14).

    Hi Isa son of Maryam, was Jesus, so that means you get just her way into heaven (only through Him, then you will go to heaven and met Father in heaven, the Father is Jesus, who, like you hear in 1 Trinity (Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit Jesus’).
    You read the Bible till doomsday if you do not ask and believe, then you would not understand.
    Muhammad, who created the al-quran with his colleagues, but plagiarized from the Torah and the Christian gospel, and added with 25% result from the thinking of Muhammad and his companions, and it is real evidence, so no more argument. (Key)
    1. In the presence of the Sanhedrin, before the elders of the Jews brought Jesus to be put to death, they asked, “Well, you then the Son of God?” (See also in Matthew 26:63, “Tell us, whether you are the Christ, the Son of God , or not? “). said Jesus:” You yourself have said, that I am the Son of God. “Then they said:” Why do we have to witness again? we ourselves have heard from his own mouth. “(Luke 22:70 -71).

    “The Lord Jesus is more willing to prove that He is the King [God’s Son], rather than saying that Himself is the King [Son of God], so that they [the elders] have no reason to punish him , when they acknowledge the truth that their demands upon him, Jesus said, “You say that I am the Son of God.”

    Jesus reveals Himself as God, saying, “I am” which refers to the words of God to Moses at the flaming bush, “I am that I am, I am who I am” (see Exodus 3:14). “I AM” is the meaning of the word Yahweh. The term “Alpha and Omega” (because the beginning and the end goal is everything), which refers to God himself, also said about who Christ Himself (Revelation 1:8, 21:6; 22:13). That is why Jesus said that: before Abraham was, he was there first (John 8:58), and precisely because of this answer, which clearly states that He is God, then Jesus was sentenced to death on charges of blasphemy.

    2. When the apostle Thomas saw the risen Jesus appeared to him, he said, “Yes, my Lord (Kurios / Lord) and my God (Theos / God)” – (John 20:28).

    The Book of Psalms in the Old Testament also refer to God as ‘Elohim’ / God, and ‘Adonai’ / Lord, “Awake and arise to defend my rights, defend my cause, O God [Elohim], and my Lord [Adonai] me!” (Psalm 35:23).

    “For unto thee, O LORD [YHWH / Jehovah], I hope; thou shall answer, Lord [Adonai], God [Elohim].” (Psalm 38:15)

    “O Lord [YHWH / Jehovah], God [Adonai] us, how majestic is your name in all the earth! O Lord [YHWH / Jehovah], God [Adonai] us, how majestic is your name in all the earth! (Psalm 8:1,9).

    The fact that the risen Lord Jesus did not say anything to refute Tomas speech, stating that he justify saying Tomas, Tomas and even strengthen confidence by saying, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. “(John 20:29). ‘Believes’, which is meant here is to believe that Jesus is Lord and God (John 20:28), and therefore he can rise from the dead, in which his resurrection is his victory over sin and death.

    3. The Apostle Peter representing the Apostles at Pentecost, teaches that Jesus is the Christ, and the title refers to the Messiah Christ (see John 1:41; 4:25), the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16).

    “Let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)

    “Because of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was preached among you” (2 Corinthians 1:19)

    The apostle Peter also calls Jesus as a source of eternal salvation, and with thus stating that Jesus is God, because only God which can provide salvation eternal to humans (see the Acts 4:12, 10:42-43)

    4. The Apostle Paul also teaches that Christ is God:

    “They are the descendants of the patriarchs, which lowers the Christ in His human state, which is on top of everything. He [Jesus the Messiah] is, God blessed for ever. Amen “(Romans 9:5)

    “He is teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sober, upright and godly in this present world to wait for the fulfillment of our hope is full of happy and revelation of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2 :12-13)

    “Be with you in your life, put your thoughts and feelings are also in Christ Jesus, who being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, and the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. That is why God highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and things in earth, and things under the earth, and every tongue confess that “Jesus Christ is God, “to the glory of God the Father! (Philippians 2:5-11)

    Whereas, in many other verses the Apostle Paul declares that Jesus is God, that although different Personal with God the Father, but one and equal with Him:

    Jesus Christ is referred to as the Creator, Jesus is God, because only God is the Creator of all things: “He [Christ] is the image of the invisible God, because in Him [Christ] was the one were all things created, that is in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, all things were created by Him [Christ] and for Him [Christ]. He is before all things and all things in him [Christ]. “(Colossians 1:15-17)”

    “Because of all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in him [Christ]” (Colossians 1:19).

    “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we life. “(1 Corinthians 8:6)

    “He [Christ] is the light of God’s glory and the exact representation of God and upholding all things by the word of His power” (Hebrews 1:3). Only God alone who sustains all His creatures with His word.

    5. The Apostle John also taught that Jesus, the Word, is God:

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God together. All things were made by Him [the Word / Christ], and without Him nothing came who had become of all that has been made. In him [the Logos / Christ] was life, and the life was the light of men. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory that was given to him as the Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. “(John 1:1-4, 14)

    “What was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have witnessed, and which we have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life-this we proclaim to you. Life was manifested, and we have seen it and now we testify and proclaim to you of eternal life, which was with the Father and has been revealed to us. What we have seen and we have heard it, we proclaim also to you, so you also have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:1-4)
    The Lord Jesus had raised me from death.

    Simple, if there is evil, then, there is a good also, and if there is Satan/Demon, and then there is God also to comfort us all with His grace and love.

  • RickK — I think you are like so many other believes in evolution, you act naïve on purpose. At some point rock soup became life and life became micro-organisms and those micro-organisms evolved in higher advanced creatures such as a squirrel. YES or NO? This is the folly of your theory. It mocks God and common sense.

  • RickK– would it be better if I said that somehow non-life like gravel begat life? then amino acids or protein molecules or whatever you insist upon begat a DNA molecule? and then DNA somehow begat micro-organisms? And those tiny creatures — if stared at long enough — would one day turn into a chipmunk, or even a gorilla? It is impossible to swallow. It mocks God and it mocks common sense and logic.

  • I apologize for the similar double posts, but for some reason when I posted the first one it erred out and said “we detect a double post”? I do not know how that could have happened since I submitted it only once? So I assumed it did not post at all and created a second similar one hoping it would go through. Sorry about that.


    I never said “Atheists never fight.”

    It is just that atheist have more reasons NOT TO fight since we aren’t arguing with each other over imaginary matters in addition to whatever real problems may be at hand.

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