"No Mosque" symbol of hostility to Islam in America

Let's make America Muslim-free again

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, right, and Indiana Governor Mike Pence, left, wave to the crowd before addressing the crowd during a campaign stop at the Grand Park Events Center in Westfield, Indiana, on July 12, 2016. Photo courtesy of REUTERS/John Sommers II

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, right, and Indiana Governor Mike Pence, left, wave to the crowd before addressing the crowd during a campaign stop at the Grand Park Events Center in Westfield, Indiana, on July 12, 2016. Photo courtesy of REUTERS/John Sommers II

 

All attention turns to Cleveland this week, where Donald Trump is expected to accept the GOP nomination for president. A cornerstone of Trump’s platform has been to deny entry to all Muslim immigrants, no matter where they come from or what their individual life situation may be.

This is a fantastic idea. In fact, I can’t imagine why no one has thought of this solution before. Ridding the nation of Muslims will go a long way toward ending the cycle of violence in this country as perpetrated by Muslims angry white men like Dylan Kleibold, Adam Lanza, Dylann Roof, Elliot Rodger and other mass shooters. It just makes sense.

In fact, while we’re at it, let’s reject Muslim influence on society altogether. It’s downright un-American. In making America Muslim-free again, we will also make it great again! So let’s eliminate:

  • Math. Muslims are widely regarded as having made huge contributions to higher mathematics (algebra, that bane of my eighth-grade existence, comes from the Arabic al-jabara). Damn them for this. Who needs math? All math gives us is pesky facts and statistics, when what really matters is how people feel in their gut. That’s what Donald Trump says, anyway. We should believe him.
  • Zero. While we’re disposing of math, let’s be sure to dump that useless creation, the zero. Muslims were not the only inventors of the zero, but we don’t want to chance any Islamic taint by keeping it around. Zero is a weak number, a nothing number. It’s an innate loser. Red-blooded Americans don’t need it. Without the zero, just like that, our national debt would go from $19.3 trillion to $193. See how Islam has been holding the U.S. down?
  • Astronomy. Everyone already knows that America is the center of the universe, duh. So why would we need this entirely gratuitous field masquerading as a science?
  • Universities. Once we’ve exterminated math and astronomy, we might as well gut the universities altogether. Silly Muslims, setting an example for the world by founding the first institutions of higher learning.  Colleges and universities have been nothing but trouble since then, as seen in last week’s widely publicized Historians Against Donald Trump petition.
  • Hospitals. Muslims may have created the first real hospitals, but hospitals are for the weak, while America is strong. All hospitals do is encourage illness and dependency. People just need to decide they’re going to get well, and do it already. Problem solved.

Think how much money we just saved by chucking hospitals, universities, and other expensive Muslim creations!

Oh, wait. We can’t really calculate that since we don’t have math anymore.

 


Other satire posts from Flunking Sainthood:


Support Jana’s Kickstarter campaign for “The Next Mormons” now through July 29!

Click here to be a part of this project.

 


 

Comments

  1. Best idea? Let’s introduce them all to Jesus and help them to become Christians.

  2. “in the 1500s”

    Who, Istafan?? A slave of a conquistador?? A lot of these accomplishments are indeed accomplishments of the Muslim world, though you’re overstating them quite a bit and neglecting to mention the work to those fields contributed by other groups.

    The overstating of facts combined with the outright belligerent tone will do nothing to convince your opposition nor will it bring forth harmony and bridge-building between those with misunderstandings about Muslims. Overall, this article is not helpful. Thanks for the effort, but you’re not helping anyone here.

    Mocking people only serves to entrench their biases, not combat it. When is the last time you changed your opinion because someone called you stupid??

    In order to stand any chance of changing hearts and minds, we need LESS articles like this. Only through empathy can biases be successfully debated away. Please produce less content like this. It is not helpful to American Muslims and, if anything, will only entrench people in their biases. Which is the opposite of what you should be working towards.

  3. Pot. Kettle.
    Most likely, the only reason you are a Christian is because your parents were.

  4. Exactly. I can’t take this author seriously due to her bias. The author damages her credibility by overemphasizing the facts mentioned regarding ancient history while completely ignoring the facts of very recent history of Islamic radicalism, intolerance, violence, and yes, terrorism. The author appears to simply be trying to lay down a smokescreen from the obvious concerns. The invention of math hundreds of years ago has less to do with this topic than the San Bernadino shooting earlier this year. I don’t have to be Muslim to do the math there.
    Not all Muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are Muslims. Face facts–check stats, do your math (or algebra :)). Ignoring the obvious and mocking the intelligence of people that do not agree with your ideology will do nothing to change the minds of readers such as myself.

  5. Try fact checking your statement on Muslim terrorists – at least if you are referring to the US. Her point as to who is responsible for the bulk of mass shootings in the US is bang on.

    And I liked the satire – a common literary and comedic device. Totally relevant as to underscoring some of the contributions of the Islamic culture to the present. As relevant as Roman and Greek contributions. Many people appear to think that Islam is represented by what is happening in the Mid-East and/or based on information found on biased websites (pretending to) provide information on Muslims and the Islamic faith.

  6. If your frame of reference is the States, then a more appropriate starting point is to consider why Muslims don’t simply convert in a predominantly Christian society where Christian radio and TV is a 24/7 cultural feature and churches are everywhere?

  7. I believe I did.

    Pot. Kettle. A comment on someone who claims to know Jesus, but nevertheless obsesses over the alleged sins of people she doesn’t know, contrary to what the Big Guy himself said you should do.

    Most likely, etc. a simple statement of the near inevitability of following the religion your parents gave you, as opposed to someone, somehow showing you the Only True Way. In other words, the inevitability of Jesus is something only some types of Christian believe in. Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet, but the whole divine, son-o-God thingy is blasphemy to them.

    I regret that I didn’t make the substance of my comment more clear.

  8. I was referring to Muslim terrorists worldwide, not nationwide. If it is true that there are fewer Islamic terrorists in the USA, it’s because we don’t import them from other places. Thanks for pointing out the difference–it helps support Trump’s idea of limiting immigration, ‘bang on’.
    Btw, I don’t need to go to biased websites to get info on Muslims. I just turn on the news and learn about people shouting ‘Allah Akbar’ as they kill innocents before they are killed themselves. Oops, my bad, I just assumed they were Islamic.
    That was sarcasm.
    Oh, and this isn’t a ‘biased website’, I’m sure. More sarcasm.
    Sarcastic, not satirical. Just like this article.

  9. To Linda Lee: Just so it’s clear, I acknowledge that the majority of Muslims are peaceful. But for a minority (but still a very large group of people), Muhammad’s words in the Koran are fertile soil for the growth of intolerance and violence toward unbelievers.
    You said “Many people appear to think that Islam is represented by what is happening in the middle-east”. Seriously? Of course it is, how can you say it’s not when Muslims commit these acts in the Middle East (and in Europe!) in the name of Allah? That’s like saying if I jumped off the top of the World Trade Center (pre 9/11), the effect of my falling to my death would not be related to the effects of gravity. Saying it is so is not satire or sarcasm, it’s just silly.

  10. Why don’t we call Christians who kill in the name of Jesus Christian terrorists? Like the Christian who attacked a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, killing many. And like the Christians who terrorize women at abortion clinics and kill doctors who perform abortions. Or the Christians who terrorize Muslims at their mosques and in their homes.

  11. Well, your psychic powers weren’t working very well that day then.

  12. They hate Christians Linda. That’s why they need us so much.

  13. There isn’t a lot of reporting on that.

  14. Wow. I can’t believe my response was removed from this comment section. No reason, other than it doesn’t conform with the views in the echo chamber.

    Ironic how you mentioned ‘biased websites’, Linda Lee. Let’s see how long before this post is removed too…

  15. Except when someone shoots up churches, abortion clinics, movie theaters, schools. ..

  16. Spud, your anger against Christians is overwhelming you.

  17. Not at all. But honest discussion appears to be something you avoid.

  18. Come up with any excuse that you like, Spud. You are angry toward Christians.

  19. Well Jana you have to be careful quoting history to “angry white men” because it can come back and bite you in YOUR butt. Say if you were to compare the life of Mohammed who beheaded people and “married” 9 year old girls to the life of Jesus who did neither, or to Buddha who did neither, or to Zoroaster who did neither well you get the picture. Then you could try the Crusades but then again you have the thorny little problem of the Moslem conquest of what was the Christian Middle East. Lastly you could point to the religious wars of the later Christian Roman Empire but then you would have to acknowledge the THOUSAND year and older Continuing war between the two dominant strains of Islam. You might try and say there is enough manure to go around just more in some places than others and use that as a starting point but if you try compare and contrast you are probably going to lose!

  20. To what benefit will it be for them to become the Christians you desire?
    Christians willingly deceive, steal from, abuse, and kill their own with impunity. How can non-Christians need Christianity so much when there is little to no protection for the innocent among their flock?

  21. Christianity and its followers have little to offer when a blind eye is turned toward ALL of the vile acts committed in the name of Christianity.

  22. I see you have Navy in your name. So, are you condemning acts done by naval people also?

  23. Jesus came to heal and help us. He died for us so that we do not need to. He helps us while we are here. There are some of the benefits of being Christian. Nothing says that life here will be perfect, but, there is a perfect one coming

  24. Actually I think a lot of pots were stirred in the MidEast through western/American oil interests, economic conditions, education, demographics and then two wars on Iraq and the taking out of Hussein. One of the reasons I think that is until recently, Christian communities in the MidEast survived in a Muslim world. One of the really weird survey findings that I ran across was support for ISIS in the Mid East by religion/sect. ISIS even enjoyed a small level of support by Christians (6% perhaps -can’t remember) so it suggests that there is more than just religion involved. We also have short memories – think Srebrenica- 1995 where the Serbs (who overwhelmingly belonged to the Serbian Orthodox church) massacred thousands of Muslim men and boys. Or the Lebanese civil war and how that conflict and massacres also fell along religious lines including Christian. While invoking Allah seems primitive from a western perspective,the west has done the same in a more subdued fashion. General Patton for instance had prayer cards printed.

  25. Actually they don’t. I am sure some do but then people hate other people for a number of reasons but mainly because of otherness. I think most Muslims in America would tell you that. (And in fact, I think that if I was a Muslim, it would be a temptation to convert if only for the purpose of ‘fitting in.)’ Churches and mosques wouldn’t be offering to share space otherwise. I think that there is much to admire as to religious practice of a devout Muslim – prayers 5 times a day for instance although personally not so keen as to fasting.

  26. You may have studied theology but your sense of history is skewed. The (Christian) Roman Empire was in decline 200 years or so before Mohammed was even born. Then came the Byzantine Empire (Christian and ending in 1453) and then the Ottoman Empire (Muslim) which dissolved in 1922. Religious rights were eventually officially protected under agreements with Russia (orthodox), France (Catholic) and British (Jews and other groups) but as a rule, there were no forced conversions. Only polytheists fared poorly under the Ottoman empire. In terms of beheadings, Henry VIII lopped off the heads of somewhere between 57,000 and 82,000 British citizens including Cromwell and Sir Thomas More. Anabaptists were beheaded by Catholics, Lutherans and Reformed churches of the Reformation. In the US, Indians and slaves were beheaded – New Orleans uprising of 1811, the Seminole Wars in Florida and the California gold rush where the state and some local governments paid for Indian scalps. And then there were the lynchings. In terms of continuing war within itself, also think Catholic and Protestant up to Ireland in the very near past. And while I am uncomfortable with the idea of Mohammed as a prophet having Gabriel speak to him given that he had a 9 year old wife, I realized that I might be bringing my own 20th century morality and ethics as a lens. I am equally ambiguous as to Moses’s father being married to his father’s sister.

  27. If I were you considering a “modern feminist” view of history I wouldn’t be so quick to explain away Mohammed’s pedophilia as your “own 20th century morality and ethics as a lens” nor his embodiment of the patriarchy but that is your problem. Secondly any one with a once of Irish intelligence knows The Troubles” long ago ceased being a religious war…that was more than a wee stretch. Thirdly beheadings were not that common as they were reserved for major crimes against the state nor is that the issue in the first place! Lastly when you see a majority Muslim nation allow equality, freedom of expression, freedom from religion, legal protection of gay folkes, and the separation of mosque and state then we can talk ….and no Indonesia does not nor Iran nor Egypt none do!

  28. You’re damn right I do! You have failed to notice that two service members in Okinawa were gift wrapped by their command and handed over to foreign authorities for their heinous acts. This is never done on bases located on foreign soil due to arranged SOFA directives. I’ve been a brig watch member augmenting security staff on board my ship. Two shitwads robbed a jewelry store in Dubai and go locked into our brig. Security had to step and assume all watches over these fools as word had gotten around that we had special “treatment” in mind for them. The usually tactic for getting out of brig watch was avoided as we flooded security with requests to stand extra watches. We begged our commanders, the captain, and the admiral to give them to local authorities as we knew each one would lose a hand for this horrible act. WE WANTED THE AMPUTATIONS!!

  29. Not buying it at all. My baby brother would be alive today based on your assumptions of healing and helping. There would be no need for St. Jude’s Children’s Hospital or Kosair or Shriners . There were be no need to find counseling for the tens or possibly the hundreds of thousands of innocent children victimized repeated by your Jesus followers. There would be NO ORPHANAGES. Your Jesus has failed to live up to his bargain and I so no benefits in Christianity and all the other man made religious groups.

  30. “Nothing says that life here will be perfect, but, there is a perfect one coming.”
    That’s the cruelest statement that’s been dished out to me repeatedly. This progressively crippling disease I suffer will all go away when I’m dead. So, I should look forward to ended up on a ventilator, feeding tubes and being unable to communicated because of the associated dementia. That’s f**king cruel lady. This lady here is arranged to take herself out before that point.

  31. To all those people who want to outlaw Islam and ban immigration on the basis of religion, let me ask one question:

    Why do you hate America so much?

    One of our fundamental freedoms is the freedom of religion. Despite what a bunch of Christian fundie theocratic claim, it means freedom for all faiths.

    It never has granted a right to harm others in defense of their faith. The nabobs bleating about Sharia law in the US are the same which want Christian based segregation against others. They are hypocrites and bigots.

    Freedom of religion extends most of all to faiths which do not have majority appeal. Those despised by others. To embrace legalized islamaphobia is to defile the best parts of our nation l. It does not make America great. It is the sign of decline.

    I don’t care what people think of Islam, it has no bearing on the fact Muslims have the same rights as every other member of as religious faith. We can no more ban Islam than we can Christianity, or Voodoo.

  32. If that is what the Lord wills, I’m sorry for you. But that does not negate that there is a better life to come and with someone in the position you say you are in hates that, I find that odd.

  33. Jesus healed my dad of cancer. I know He heals. Sorry for your loss

  34. You sound like a very angry person. Jesus can help you with that also.

  35. I will admit that their devotion to their cult is admirable, but, let’s face it, it is a cult and they are in reality doing nothing but exciting satan. They do hate Christians Linda. It’s written in their book also – Christians and Jews. Please be advised.

  36. Christians tell me to pray for my own death in order to be healed. That. Is. Cruel.

  37. That’s the explanation you choose to accept.
    I reject all unsound explanations. That’s how I live my life. I reject that a mythical entity wills upon his acolytes illness and misery. It’s very Jim Jones.

  38. Turkey would be one. Pakistan a second. The US does not offer full protection of persons based on sexual orientation (employment – only 22 states have legislation) and if the Republicans form government, high likelihood of at least attempting to role back existing rights. Belize and Cameroon are 2 examples of democracies where the dominant faith is Christian and where being gay is criminal and punishable.

    And thank you for your pedophilia observation which pushed me to really look at the issue. Muhammed’s marriage history otherwise would indicate marriages were for political convenience and compassion. So I discovered that this has been looked at using a variety of historic Islamic documents and the Quaran’ s teaching of marriage as being between 2 consenting adults, it is believed that she was betrothed at the age of 10 and married at the age of 14 at the earliest.

    I mentioned the troubles because in some ways it reflect the Sunni/Shia conflict which has not been thousands of years – certainly periods of strife – but not for dominantly religious reasons. In Iraq and Syria, the Sunnis were the favoured child of government/power. Hence Shiite rising up against the Syrian governent. But the real radicals/fundamentalists (the jihadists) are the outcome of the Wahhabist influence/orientation supported by Saudi Arabia – somewhat analogous to Trump’s religious advisory board – but who have rejected even that and who believe that both Sunnis and Shiites are not truly Muslim (just like my sister who doesn’t believe Catholics or mainline Protestants are Christians either.)

    I have learned more about Muslims than I really ever intended to because of the rampant Islamophobia, the implications as to accepting Muslims as bona fide refugees and my understanding of how Christians are called to deal with others.

  39. I have also heard the same Satan assertion but with respect to Catholics. But you might want to read the Promise to St. Catherine in terms of teachings about (not) hating Christians. I do think than many Muslims have problems believing that Christianity is actually monotheistic.

  40. Pakistan! seriously! People are routinely stoned to death, burned to death or beaten to death for being non Muslim! Try being an Orthodox Christian in Turkey or Armenian Orthodox especially if you bring up the genocide committed against the Armenian people! As for child marriage someone better tell the Afghans for a start that Mohammed was simply arranging alliances. The problem regardless of the religious mantle is the idea that “infidels”deserve death or even that there are infidels in the first place! Weill maybe Republicans and comparing the lack of non discrimination laws to being tossed off the minaret or hanged is a bit ludicrous. As a gay man who was standing for gay rights at the tender age of 18 way back in 1965 and being chased by the KKK, called a N lover, witnessing gay marriages forty years ago, called a charlatan by some mainline clergy for doing so and for being openly gay I know just a little of what it is like for being a “them” instead of being an “us”.

  41. If that’s what it takes to make you feel better about your own piety, knock your lights out. My motto is pray (or prey) less and act more.

  42. Two Mormon ladies told me this in my own apartment.
    Aaaand I don’t believe any entity healed your father. He was obviously healed via modern medicine and his own physiology.

  43. Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.

    Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

    Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”

    Quran (9:30) – “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

    That is how muslim feel about Christians and Jews.

  44. Might I suggest that you cease with the tendency to diminish all who do not and do not wish to play “step & fetch it* for you brand of fundamentalism. Might collect a few more recruits and increase your body count as I feel that’s what truly gains one access to mythical heaven. Gotta rack up those bragging points to flaunt in front front of the others, eh?

  45. Nope. I have to tell the truth. So, I place it in comments for people like you. blessings Navy.

  46. Just let the media know when you don your shield and begin victimizing the innocent in your conversion and inquisition crusade. I mean, your Christians talk but don’t walk.

  47. Just as a small correction: “zero” (and our modern numeral system, 0 to 9) comes from the Indian subcontinent (a Hindu-Buddhist-Jain civilization). The Arabs adopted it, and then transmitted it to Europe.

  48. Considering that ISIS has been targeting Christians for killing by the hundreds in the Middle East, I find it doubtful that there are Christians in the Middle East that are supporting ISIS. With respect, I think you might not be remembering that correctly. But I’m sure it is more complicated than simply a religious issue.
    But the reason I said Islam is fertile ground for intolerance and violence towards unbelievers is because Muhammad clearly called for it in the Koran, and also in his own history. Jesus never said to kill your enemies, but Muhammad’s history is full of violence and killing those who don’t agree with him.
    You were comparing violent acts of those that follow these two faiths, you should consider the core figures of the two religions in question, Jesus/Christianity and Muhammad/Islam. Christ spoke of turning the other cheek, Muhammad spoke of killing those that did not follow him. Christ voluntarily gave his life as a sacrifice for all mankind while Mohammad founded a religion of conquest against those who disagreed with him. See Quran 9:5. Fundamentally different ideologies. 500 hundred years from now, those that closely follow Muhammad’s words will still be beheading unbelievers while those that strive to follow Jesus’ teachings will hopefully be evolving into a more enlightened and tolerant people.

  49. “How do you reconcile the 25% of muslims in America who when polled said that suicide bombing of civilians is justified? ”

    A slanted (or fictitious) poll and a pretext to violate our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms under the phony guise of public safety. Freedom of religion extends to all faiths. Even the one the public despises. Especially those.

    “What about the kill them or convert them mantra? ”

    Which you naturally assume every Muslim does but can only attribute to extremists.I would say you are letting ignorance define your position.

    “What about sharia law that is absolutely unconstitutional, yet in every community where muslims become the majority”

    Yet isn’t what happens in democratic nations. If you valued religious freedom in the first place you would not have asked the question. You would simply say, uphold our 1st amendment and separation of church and state and you wouldn’t have to worry. No religion can impose itself onto our laws. If we don’t allow Christian majorities to get away with it, why do you think a Muslim one would? It’s also complete garbage. You can’t tell me any Muslim enclave in the US has Sharia law governing it.

    Your fears and concerns are largely borne of both sectarian nonsense and a complete disregard for the American way of life.

    There are plenty of ways to fight Islamicist terror, but you aren’t going to come up with anything useful. At best, you are enabling terrorists. Accepting their propaganda at face value. Attacking the people most useful in the fight, American Muslims. Muslims unafraid to call out terrorists because they know their government has their back.

    Your willingness to trash our democratic way of life to fuel sectarian fears is disgusting. You are worse than a terrorist. In a free society terrorists can only kill people and break things. You advocate killing our very way of life. What makes America worth defending.

  50. The only spineless one here is the one who is too afraid to defend the freedoms of their democratic nation. The one who wants to trash our way of life in order to feel safe. Why do you hate America so much?

    You don’t deserve to call yourself an American. You are no different from ISIS. You even parrot their rhetoric. You are doing exactly what terrorists want. To destroy our values, to demonize all Muslims. You are practically on the ISIS payroll for all the help you give them.
    Don’t talk to me about defending the constitution while you attack it’s very concepts. The very system Washington, Jefferson and Adams created is the one you are willing to destroy. Freedom applies to everyone or it applies to nobody. I am willing to die for our democratic way of life. The first sign of trouble and you attack it. Disgusting!

    You want to fight religious extremism, uphold the damn first amendment

  51. You might want to revise your thoughts on Turkey.

  52. We have our agency. We all can choose the life we will live. This life is a test to prove ourselves worthy to return and live with God. God allows people to exercise their agency and make bad choices and even harm other people. That is part of the test. A true disciple of Jesus Christ is promised peace in this life and eternal life in the world to come. We are not promised a life free from sorrow, difficulty or temptation. All of that will help us rely on God and Jesus Christ and appreciate the blessings we will receive for treating people as Jesus would. The actions of a few who call themselves Christians but are in fact hypocrites does not change the wonderful teachings of Christianity. God will make everything right in the end, if it is not right, it is not the end!

  53. So, I must die to make all my physical issues go away?
    Just hang on to that pain while you’re clutching an antiquated manuscript and pray to die soon. That’s one cruel system and I’m glad I had the sense to leave it as a teenager.

  54. All this speculation about a non-existent celestial dictator in the sky is akin to debating the length of a unicorn’s horn.

    I’m reminded of a quote by Sam Harris: “Religion allows people by the billions to believe things only a lunatic could believe on his own.”

  55. I think there is a huge problem with non-muslims interpreting the Quran. And if you google the cited verse that you might find a number of people who suggest that there are significant qualifiers to that verse – the risk of cherry picking. Kind of like just war theory.

  56. There is a great risk in picking out texts that purport to show a specific assertion or generalization. And just like picking specific Bible verses, the meaning comes from context. Qu’ran 9 speaks to the issue of believing there is only one God who did not have any sons. Oddly enough, it becomes exactly the same argument in reverse used by Christians to dispute the possibility as to whether or not Muslims can worship the same God if they don’t believe in Jesus. I am sure though that some/many understand the Qu’ran in the same way that some Christians do about the Bible without regard to context and history of the time. To compare to your quotes, how about “…you will find the nearest of them in affection to the
    believers are those who say, ‘We are Christians.’ That is because among
    them are priests and monks, and they are not arrogant.” -Qur’an 5:82

  57. Muslim are showing us differently, and seem to be following more of what I have cited,than yours. Think about Boko Haram burning the house with the 20 children in it and they all died by fire – not a lot of affection there.

  58. Your glib assertion that they need Christians would be small comfort to the Muslims living in the Central African Republic or those who became refugees after coming under attack by Christian militia groups. Religious fundamentalism/extremism appears to be at the root of terrorism – particularly in third world countries where people experience oppression, poverty and illiteracy. The problem in recognizing this is partly because Christian terrorists – yes they exist in many of the same areas – are not considered to be Christians by mainstream Christians – the Lord’s Resistance Army fighters for example wear rosary beads and cite bible verses before attacking.

    It was a group of US Muslims who set up a go fund me page to help restore the 6 black churches in the South that were vandalized by arson during the same time period of the Dylan Roof killing/slaughter of parishioners. I am not aware of any white Christian groups offering similar support to these churches.

    Jesus told us to love our enemies. In America, I believe they are also likely your neighbours. Trying getting to know some of them – you might find that they could be your friend.

  59. Yes, Jesus did tell us to love our enemies – which is why we help them to follow Him, not an idol. But, Jesus also said: Matthew 10:16 – New International Version

    “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.”
    Muslim are a hateful cult.

  60. …I don’t think we were discussing just war theory.
    I think there is a huge problem with Muslims interpreting the Quran to justify their violent acts towards non-Muslims. You’ll find thousands (at least) that use their scripture to justify it, and without needing to look it up on Google. Which Muslims, and which violent acts, you ask? Look at the front page in Europe every couple of weeks when another bombing, shooting, stabbing or running over people with a truck is done while they are shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’. Actions can be interpreted also. And please knock off the condescending responses–I own a copy of the Koran, and chances are pretty good I know it better than you if you are non-Muslim.
    I also think that there is a huge problem with non-Muslims burying their heads in the sand and not seeing the reality before them.

  61. One more thing…you mentioned that ‘a number of people’ might ‘suggest’ there are qualifiers to Quran 9:5. A number of people? How many is that? Two? Twelve? Six million? You imply that I am cherry picking, but I suppose someone who makes such vague comments to see any return comment with specifics to be cherry picking. Easier to bury your head in the sand when you keep it vague, right?

  62. Newsflash: Muslims did not create the concept of zero; Indians did long before Islam arrived on the scene. Muslims also did not invent algebra, they merely named it. The ancient Babylonians and Greeks created algebra. Also, the first university in the world was Nalanda, a Buddhist center of learning established centuries before Muhammad was born. Muslims DID study astronomy, but only to determine the exact times for the start and end of their religious ceremonies. Last, many ancient societies had hospitals of sorts, including the Greeks. So here again, these are not Islamic contributions to the world.

    If you ignore all the spin-doctoring and half-truths presented by Muslims and their supporters, you discover that Islam has contributed virtually nothing to human progress. The Golden Age is a myth. So is the idea that Medieval Islamic societies were tolerant. They were anything but. Whenever and wherever Muslims invaded, native peoples were slaughtered and native cultures died. In short, please do not try to defend the right of Muslims to live in the West by regurgitating lies.

    Muslims who agree to deny sharia and abide by the laws of democratic nations should be welcomed to live in those countries. The Muslim traitors and sharia advocates should be deported.

  63. Except that Islam is not primarily a religion. Rather, it is a violent political ideology that contradicts much American law. There is no reason for America to accept an ideology that denies basic human rights and freedoms and advocates the overthrow of American government. Would you claim that we must accept Nazism simply because its adherents talked about god?

  64. Says you. It’s very much a religion by any definition of the term. Your sectarian bigotry here is duly noted.

    All religions are at odds with democratic principles. The first amendment requires official respect for all faiths. Something at odds with all beliefs that their religion is the one true one and all others must be banished from sight. To be a good American one has to be a bad believer in that respect. The first commandment is as un-American as it gets. “No other gods but me” is utterly incompatible with government shall respect free exercise of religion.

    As for going Godwin, even Nazis are entitled to freedom of speech. You don’t have to accept their views. You just can’t get in the way of their lawful expression if them

  65. You misunderstood my point. Yes, Nazis and all others are entitled to freedom of belief and speech. They are NOT, however, protected in advocating or attempting the overthrow of American government – which is exactly the aim of sharia. Nazis also cannot try to force their ideology on others. “Your rights end where my nose begins” is an unwritten rule of thumb in respect to individual rights. This is why neo-Nazis have frequently been denied permission to hold rallies in Jewish neighborhoods. In Dearborn, Michigan and other Muslim majority neighborhoods, however, Muslims have tried to force non-Muslims to follow sharia law, usually through intimidation. Islam does not teach or advocate peaceful coexistence, yet such coexistence is essential in a liberal democracy. Do all Muslims act superior and demand special treatment? Of course not. Those who do, however, need to clean up their acts.

    FYI, many scholars have pointed out that Islam is more political than religious. Some 60% of the Qur’an is devoted to condemnation of non-believers and rules for how Muslims should treat non-believers. Far fewer verses are concerned with spiritual or other purely religious matters. This makes Islam a highly politicized ideology.

  66. “They are NOT, however, protected in advocating or attempting the overthrow of American government”

    No more than every extremist in the country including the majority of people calling themselves libertarians these days. Political extremism is protected speech too. Conspiracy to commit criminal acts are not. There is a difference.

    “In Dearborn, Michigan and other Muslim majority neighborhoods, however, Muslims have tried to force non-Muslims to follow sharia law, usually through intimidation. Islam does not teach or advocate peaceful coexistence, yet such coexistence is essential in a liberal democracy.”

    I am calling “bullshit” on this one. Do you have a citation on this from actual news sources? You are making an allegation which gets debunked constantly.

    FYI I live in an area with a high concentration of Muslim Americans (NJ Hudson County), and a madrassa within walking distance. Nothing like you said remotely rings true.

    Also inherent in your post is a ton of guilt by association. Holding a Muslims put as believing what really only represents it’s most extreme minority. It is a common tactic when discussing minorities.

    “FYI, many scholars have pointed out that Islam is more political than religious”

    This represents merely a tactic to deny religious rights wholesale to Muslims. As with your bit on Muslim neighborhoods, I doubt you are using objectively credible sources here either. By any objective view of Islam, ita a religion and you are using it’s most fanatical elements as examples for the entire group of 1.4 billion adherents. Not any different from ISIS propaganda.

  67. I debated with myself on whether to respond to your latest comment. The hostile stridency of your tone indicates that you are one of the “useful idiots” of the liberal left. Rather than analyze the facts, you speak from how you feel.

    First, the attempt to enforce sharia upon non-Muslims happens everywhere in the west where Muslims congregate. I do not have to cite sources on this, any more than I need cite sources to prove that climate change is real. Google the subject yourself and you will find many articles from legitimate news sources on it. Do your own homework. Keep in mind that sharia does not have to be wholesale, only piecemeal, to be real. Forcing your womenfolk to wear hijab against their personal wishes, and punishing them for disobeying, is sharia. Demanding that people be punished BY LAW for ridiculing or drawing Muhammad, constitutes sharia. Demanding that local fast food joints or public schools serve halal foods is sharia. Demanding that public schools allow pupils to opt out of music or physical education constitutes sharia. Harassing non-Muslims for walking dogs or dressing “immodestly” in Muslim areas is sharia. Sharia demands a separate set of laws for Muslims – a no-no in liberal democracies – along with attempts to force no Muslims to abide by those laws. It happens most often in Europe where the Islamic population is larger, but there are plenty of instances in North America.

    You say you know of a neighborhood in NJ where the people don’t behave this way? So what? I’ve had many good Muslim friends myself. That isn’t objective proof off anything, it is merely anecdotal evidence. Tthe problem is not how individual Muslims behave (many do not fully practice their religion) but what the Islamic source texts actually teach.

    Spuddie, I have lived in the Middle East and seen firsthand how sharia operates, the horrid toll it has on individuals. I have seen how Christians and other non-Muslim minorities are persecuted with impunity in Islamic countries, with the blessing of the sharia “experts”. Further, I have been studying Islam for over three decades. Have you read the Qur’an, ahadith collections and sira? I have; that is why I am so concerned. Your opinions seem to be based upon nothing more than your gut devotion to multiculturalism: “Islam is a religion, therefore it MUST be benign and it MUST be protected”. Sorry, I disagree. PEOPLE have rights, but IDEOLOGIES do not. Muslims certainly have the protected right to practice the religious portion of Islam – in private. Islam itself, however, has a huge socio-political component that is completely incompatible with the values of liberal democracy. Here is a “religion” in which women have fewer rights than men, non-Muslims have fewer rights than Muslims, and slaves have virtually no rights in comparison to free people. No one is allowed to criticize Islam or leave Islam, on pain of death. That’s’ not religion – that’s politics, and quite illiberal politics in the bargain.

    The socio-political aspect of Islam has NO place in the West, and deserves exactly as much tolerance as we permit to Fascism or Stalinism. You are certainly entitled to adhere to ideologies that contradict western laws and values, but please keep them to yourselves. Don’t flaunt them in public, and don’t try to force them upon the rest of us.

    By the way, Ahmadiyya Islam eschews violence and demands that its adherence treat all others with love and respect. I welcome this form of Islam in the West, as one among many ideologies that are reasonably compatible with liberal democracy. Unfortunately, most traditional Muslims view Ahmadis as heretics, and persecute them accordingly.

  68. ” Rather than analyze the facts, you speak from how you feel.”

    You haven’t given facts. Just outright fictions and propaganda. Pretending any of your posts is rooted in reality is simply wishful thinking on your part.

    “First, the attempt to enforce sharia upon non-Muslims happens everywhere in the west where Muslims congregate. I do not have to cite sources on this,”

    Because you are full of BS on this. You can’t come up with verifiable examples. You used American Muslim communities as an example, but can’t come up with a single citation. I called your assertion bullshit, demanded a source and you balked. Your post only gets worse from there.

    “Google the subject yourself and you will find many articles from legitimate news sources on it.”

    I find a lot of hate groups repeating such nonsense, but nothing from an objectively credible source. Your assertion is still garbage.

    There are no examples of Muslim communities in Europe or the US forcing people to abide by your extremist version of sharia law anywhere. At best you have notice that in Europe Muslim communities are largely generational ghettos with endemic joblessness and institutionalized bigotry. US Muslim communities are largely well off in comparison. Hardwired freedom of religion and none of the post-colonial hangups mean the barriers to upward mobility in Europe aren’t present in the US.

    The most you find in any of those places is the use of sharia in the same way rabbinical law is used in haredi communities. As a form of voluntary arbitration framework for civil disputes or purely religious matters.

    “Spuddie, I have lived in the Middle East and seen firsthand how sharia operates”

    I am not talking about Middle East autocratic hellholes. I am talking about places with religious freedom and heterogenous communities. Using those countries as examples is like equating the entirety of Europe with Nazi Germany or the USSR. Not the same kind of place.

    You strike me as someone who hasn’t a clue as to what Muslim communities in the US actually look like.

    Of course what none of you “Islam is EVILLLL” types never bother to do is research the modern history of the Middle East. Until 1979 the prevailing ideology in the region was secular nationalism or radicalism. Terrorists were largely Soviet backed anti-colonial types back in the day. For 70 years this was the norm. Islam was barely considered in a political sense. It wasn’t until the Iranian revolution that Islamicism became something of note. The Saudi/Iran cold war politicized the religion for both Sunni and Shia sects much like the US/USSR cold war politicized economics for the rest of the world.

    “Have you read the Qur’an, ahadith collections and sira? I have”

    Somehow I get the impression you only had the “gotcha” sections pointed out to you and miss the context. I can point to any number of parts of the Bible and come up with some pretty nasty retrograde ideas which are being extolled. Don’t pretend you are some kind of expert on the books because you can cut and paste from a hate group site.

    One does not judge a religion based on what you think their scripture says. One bases it on their actions. Islam and Christianity are two religions with little to no history of getting along with others until the modern era. Both have been used as pretext to conquest and colonial efforts. The only major difference these days is that Christian majority nations are largely secularized. Mostly out of disgust with the atrocities associated with the entanglement of religion and politics.

    ” Sorry, I disagree. PEOPLE have rights, but IDEOLOGIES do not.”

    Your willingness to torch the notion of religious freedom is exactly the kind of nonsense ISIS wants to promote. Freedom of religion and Freedom of Speech isn’t there to protect the ideas and beliefs the majority of people like or accept. Its to protect the ones which are not popular. Even those which may be inflammatory. One does not protect against extremism by attacking the basis of a free and democratic society. By being extremist in return. It doesn’t work that way. Your distrust of such things is sickening. “Those who trade security for freedom deserve neither” Ben Franklin.

    Your entire posting is essentially doing the propaganda work for ISIS. They state as you do, that the West is at war with the entirety of Islam and that democracy or even religious freedom is a farce for Muslims living in such places. All you do is reinforce their efforts. You are one of the best agents Islamic State can hope for without ever having to be paid for your efforts.
    https://warisboring.com/the-islamic-states-assault-on-the-gray-zone-2ba6bbcb24fb#.te62qlrl1

  69. As I pointed out before, you need to do your homework. You also need to speak logically rather than from your emotional convictions.

    Your understanding of the history of the Middle East is weak, to say the least. So Islamism did not become a FORMAL: political ideology in the region until 1979? So what? That has NOTHING to do with the fact that Islam is both a socio-political ideology and a religious faith. It always has been. Muslims themselves proudly proclaim that Islam is a complete way of life, comprising the social, religious and political spheres. There can be no separation of mosque and state. As I told you, I lived in the Middle East for awhile and saw this piecemeal application of sharia firsthand. Sights like a man beating his wife to a pulp in public for “disrespecting” him (while male neighbors watched, grinning), throwing stones through church windows while shouting about evil kuffar, spitting on female tourists for not covering their hair, etc., are experiences you never forget. This all took place in modern Cairo, not some sleepy backwater.

    Claiming that the Bible contains some equally repulsive material is a typical liberal ploy. It is also a red herring. First, that is quite debatable. There are several times as many violent, hate-filled verses in the Qur’an as there are in the Bible, although the Qur’an is a much shorter book. Second, whatever is in the Bible has NOTHING to do with Islam, which must stand or fall upon its own merits. Not to mention that the Bible does not hold the same place in Christianity as the Qur’an does in Islam. Christians are free to question the Bible, since it was written by human beings. They are also free to reinterpret it. Further, most of the civil and ritual laws of the Old Testament – the portion where you find those heinous verses – no longer apply since the Resurrection of Christ. Muslims, however, believe that the Qur’an was written by Allah. It is perfect and cannot be challenged in any way. Moreover, all reinterpretation ceased several centuries ago. New interpretations are haram. The hate-filled Qur’an is the ultimate authority in Islam, which means it is the equivalent of Christ, not the Bible, in Christianity. I suspect that you elected to criticize the Bible because you believe I am a Christian; criticizing “my” holy book would make me angry and also deflect attention away from the shortcomings of Islam. This is a very trite tactic of Islam’s defenders.

    Your accusation that I get my info from Anti-Muslim sites says more about you than me. As I told you, I have read the Qur’an (Yusuf Ali and Pickthall translations), the sira of Ibn Hisham, most of the ahadith from Bukhari and Muslim, plus hundreds of ahadith from the other four collections. These sources say what they say, and much of it isn’t pretty. For you to believe otherwise is clear proof that you have not read these materials. Also, I DO NOT get my info from these anti-Islamic sites. Pro-Islamic sites are quite as informative. From the horse’s mouth (leading imams, etc) we get such gems as “Islam did not come to the West to be equal to other religions, but to replace them”, “Allah honors women with beatings” and sick justifications for slavery. Islamic experts condemn their religion themselves. the rest of my information is gleaned from the works of genuine scholars, some who love the faith and some who condemn it.

    Spuddie, your emotional rants are the ravings of an ignoramus who speaks from political correctness and little else. Ever hear of Irshad Manji, Tawfiq Hamid, Zuhdi Jasser, Asra Normani, Saleem Ahmad, or Maajid Nawaz? These are PRACTICING MUSLIMS who say all of the things I have pointed out in this post. They know Islam far better than you do, and they are telling the world that traditional Islam is incompatible with modern secular values, and MUST change if Muslims and non-Muslims are to have any hope of living together in peace. You cannot accuse them of hating Islam. Go read what they have to say, if you are reluctant to invest the time needed to read the Islamic source texts.

  70. Still no examples of forced sharia in American Muslim communities. I see that is just one of many things you are just going to sweep under the rug. You were lying before, now you are doubling down on gross generalizations and fact avoidance. I am starting off by saying that I called out your bullshit already and you balked.

    “So Islamism did not become a FORMAL: political ideology in the region
    until 1979? So what? That has NOTHING to do with the fact that Islam
    is both a socio-political ideology and a religious faith.

    Actually it means that what you consider to be a long standing and integral part of the Islamic faith isn’t. It is merely a modern political addition. It means the characterizations of what you think Muslims believe as part of their faith is not going to apply. It puts the origins of Islamicism at the feet of dictators seeking to consolidate power than application of a widely held tenet of religious belief.

    ” Muslims themselves proudly proclaim that Islam is a complete way of
    life, comprising the social, religious and political spheres.”

    Fundamentalists of all faiths make the same pronouncements. Your major problem is the automatic equation of the rhetoric of extremists with the entirety of the faith. Exactly what ISIS propaganda is intended to do.

    “Claiming that the Bible contains some equally repulsive material is a typical liberal ploy.”

    And entirely supported by facts. Something you are unable to do.
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2015/01/22/yes-the-bible-does-say-to-kill-infidels/

    “Christians are free to question the Bible, since it was written by human beings. ”

    The postings of various fundamentalist Christians here say otherwise. Again using the rhetoric of fundamentalists to equate for an entire religion is dishonest. You do so for Muslims, but somehow it is inappropriate to do so for Christians. That just makes you hypocritical.

    “Your accusation that I get my info from Anti-Muslim sites says more about you than me.”

    The fact that you repeated a well known fiction bandied about on them makes it obvious you do. Still not going to get any evidence of sharia being forced upon the good citizens of Deerborn MI, or “Little Baghdad” in Brooklyn, Journal Square in Jersey City, Elizabeth NJ or “Tehrangeles” in Los Angeles.

    You sir are a liar and a bigot. Someone who seeks to demonize an entire faith to forward an agenda which both unintentionally supports terrorism and undermines a free and democratic society.

Leave a Comment