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Boy Scouts Christian alternative sees ‘tremendous response’ after transgender deci …

Trail Life and American Heritage Girls troops from Virginia, Pennsylvania and Texas participate in the 27th Annual DC Bible Reading Marathon on May 5, 2016, in Washington, D.C. Photo courtesy of Trail Life Troop VA-0412

(RNS) Since the Boy Scouts of America decided to accept transgender youngsters, there appears to be a growing market for a different kind of scouting group.

The BSA does not require troops chartered by houses of worship to accept children who do not identify with their birth gender. Nevertheless, the website of Trail Life USA, which bills itself as a Christian alternative, has had trouble keeping up with the people checking an online locator map for troops across the country since the Jan. 30 announcement.

“We’ve seen tremendous response,” said Trail Life CEO Mark Hancock in reference to the surge of membership inquiries. “Where many people would say that they’re leaving Boys Scouts, we have many others that are saying that the Boy Scouts left them.”

Trail Life currently has about 26,000 members. New troops have to go through a chartering process that can take weeks, but the surge of traffic to its website and thousands of new likes on its Facebook page suggest its numbers are about to swell.

“We’ve pushed a few employees from part time to full time and pushed some from full time to overtime to handle the inquiries from troops around the country that are looking for an organization that’s more aligned with the original timeless values of Boy Scouts,” Hancock said.


RELATED: Boy Scouts of America to begin accepting transgender boys


Since Trail Life began in January 2014, its staff has doubled to 12, its mostly evangelical church-based troops have increased from 500 to 700 and it has moved from a virtual office to the 127-acre campus of a former boys home in Belton, S.C. Participating boys, called “Navigators” and “Adventurers,” have outdoor adventures, earn badges and can seek the Horizon Award that Trail Life considers a parallel to the Eagle Scout rank.

Trail Life Troop NC-0015 Honor Guard paying tribute to our nation's fallen on Memorial Day 2016. Photo courtesy of Trail Life Troop NC-0015

Trail Life Troop NC-0015 Honor Guard paying tribute to our nation’s fallen on Memorial Day 2016. Photo courtesy of Trail Life Troop NC-0015

Many of their troop numbers correspond to Bible verses. Troop 110 is particularly popular, after Colossians 1:10 — “So that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way” — on which the organization’s “Walk Worthy” motto is based.

The BSA, which has nearly 2.3 million youth members, said it has received letters of support since its decision from a range of religious organizations — which charter the majority of Scouting units — including Reform Jews, United Methodists, Catholics and Mormons.

“If a religious organization declines to accept a youth or adult application based on their religious beliefs, we ask that they please notify their local council so that a unit open to accepting the individual can be offered as an option,” said BSA spokeswoman Effie Delimarkos.

Some religious groups have used cautious language about their next steps concerning the scouting organization after the decisions it has made in recent years to accept gay Scouts, gay leaders and now transgender youngsters.

The Mormon church has said it is “studying” the BSA’s announcement but noted the organization’s assurance that religious groups can organize their troops in ways consistent with their religious beliefs.

The Catholic Archdiocese of St. Louis said it was “evaluating” the effect the policy would have on its troops.

“We will continue to be in dialogue with Boy Scouts of America in hopes that they will recognize their error and rededicate themselves to serving the needs of the boys in the organization,” the archdiocese said.

A Trailman learning CPR during the troop's October 2016 campout in Denton, Texas. Photo courtesy of Trail Life Troop TX-0191

A Trailman learning CPR during the troop’s October 2016 campout in Denton, Texas. Photo courtesy of Trail Life Troop TX-0191

Ted Spangenberg, president of the Association of Baptists for Scouting, said he hopes groups such as Trail Life, as well as mission-oriented programs like the Southern Baptist Royal Ambassadors, will continue to thrive.

“These can be effective in helping churches and their families disciple the youth in their congregations,” he told RNS. “But, the truth is, these organizations just don’t have the brand awareness and breadth of program and appeal that the Boy Scouts still has with the ‘un-churched’ of America.”

The former chairman of BSA’s Religious Relationships Committee said congregations that run units still are responsible for membership guidelines.

“Faith groups chartering Boy Scout units need to realize that the latest change only impacts them as they choose for it to do so,” said R. Chip Turner.


RELATED: Boy Scouts Christian alternative launches with 500 troops


Trail Life’s Hancock said his organization generally does not focus on the Boy Scouts but he thought it needed to be vocal about the latest decision, which he called “harmful to boys.”

“We don’t want boys psychologically, spiritually, and possibly physically scarred by the confusing message being presented by the BSA,” he said in a statement posted on Trail Life’s website. “We don’t want boys or girls subjected to compromising situations on outings in an environment where reasonable precautions are no longer enforceable.”

Trail Life’s website includes a “purity” section in its values statement: “We are to reserve sexual activity for the sanctity of marriage, a lifelong commitment before God between a man and a woman.”

It describes membership as “designed for biologically male children under the age of 18.”

Other conservative Christians opposed the BSA’s latest move, with Fox News’ Todd Starnes calling it “a complete capitulation to the gender and sex revolutionaries” and Southern Baptist ethicist Russell Moore tweeting “This is crazy, IMO.”

More liberal denominations, including the Unitarian Universalist Association and the United Church of Christ, welcomed the move, pledging to work with the BSA as it implements the new policy. UUA President Peter Morales, whose church renewed a formal relationship with the BSA after it welcomed gay Scouts and leaders, called the latest juncture “a significant step in the direction of greater inclusion.”

About the author

Adelle M. Banks

Adelle M. Banks, production editor and a national reporter, joined RNS in 1995. An award-winning journalist, she previously was the religion reporter at the Orlando Sentinel and a reporter at The Providence Journal and newspapers in the upstate New York communities of Syracuse and Binghamton.

118 Comments

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  • It is what it is.

    The Boy Scouts have made their choice(s).

    Now Christian parents will be making *their* choice(s) as well.

  • Boy Scouts was never meant to be a sectarian religious organization anyway. The intrusion of religious dogma into it undermined it’s purpose and notions of citizenship.

    Also, the hostility Christian bigots have to trans people appears entirely manufactured. Looking for an easy target to harm

  • Why are they still calling the group, the “Boy” scouts. That is not applicable any longer. Are they going to give the girl her own tent?

  • Your first sentence is a non-starter, as there’s no evidence to support it, and the Boy Scouts disagree with you anyway.

    (Of the three categories — “gay”, “trans”, and “atheist” — guess which category is NOT admitted to membership by today’s Boy Scouts. Hmm? Moreover, the gay activists are perfectly comfortable with that arrangement; they have NO current plans to use their legal and media capital to help out you atheists. They are apparently A-Okay with the Scouts “religious dogma” component.)

    As for your second sentence, I don’t see much of any hostility. Many Christians seem to be taken by surprise (as usual), and they’re not sure what to say, or what to do, or how to apply their Scriptures to provide an effective overall response to transgenderism.

    So this is a good place to mention some info for Christians & churches:

    http://www.frc.org/transgender

    http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/04/14688/

  • And here we have the logic of the illogical.
    a) Yes, are they going to still be called boy scouts as that is a microagression against trans
    b) Are they going to allow trans to share tents with with non-trans boys
    c) will the parents of the trans worry that while sharing a tent with non-trans boys the trans will be sexually assaulted?
    d) will the trans shower/use the bathroom/change clothes in the same tent as non-trans boys

    I sincerely feel for people who have identity issues. I don’t believe they should be harassed, and if they were not harassed or worse beaten, most of these issues would not be needed. I still do not understand why trans children are not allowed to be trans with in their own anatomical reality, and if and when they should decide for a sex change that is not the marker for which facility they use. I wonder if gender identity/roles are the driving cause in this trans movement, where a female who prefers traditional male activities just cannot do so and be accepted, rather than having to believe that because of that, it makes them male (of course the same can be said for the reverse as well).

  • Actually they don’t.

    Boy Scouts are a non-sectarian organization and were founded as one and when making statements in public will declare themselves one. Many troops have secular organization sponsorship. Religious sponsorship of troops and the sectarian creep into the organization is one of those instances of a later development overtaking it, not an intended goal.

    I still don’t get the hostility to trans people other than looking for an easy target to hate. You guys spread lies about them all being sexual predators, shriek at the sight or mention of their existence and come up with gonzo ways to justify attacks on them.

    As for applying scripture, we both know that proof texting the Bible is merely an excuse to act badly to others and claim its divine command. Acting like a d-bag to others is still acting like a d-bag to others whether you can find an excuse in scripture for it or not.

    Btw I am never going to follow a link from hate group FRC. Don’t bother adding them to discussions with me.

    Morality Daily Struggle
    http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/970/486/e2c.jpg

  • I read it balloon, lol, and said “huh”? Then I reread.
    I think parents who allow their children to think they are transgender are abusive.

  • Oh no no Spuddie, the FRC link wasn’t for you. (I know it’s RNS, but one should always assume that one is speaking with a large audience, never just one or two folks.)

    As I mentioned, the information given was for *Christians and churches*, to offer a jump-start on studying this issue.

  • Yep. Manufactured hate on demand. You fundies are like little bigotry engines. Just direct to a target and watch them froth.

  • ‘The BSA does not require troops chartered by houses of worship to accept children who do not identify with their birth gender.’

    For now.

  • If they can’t mistreat and exclude certain children (or adults) how the hell are people gonna know who the REAL Christians are? Everyone knows only the fake Christians treat everyone with dignity and respect.

  • If you were actually concerned about protecting women and children, you would keep heterosexual men such as yourself away from them.

    If you were actually interested in morality, you would not e attacking trans people instead of the actual perpetrators of the vast majority of sex crimes– you know,rapists who rape women, me. Who molest their own children, and so forth.

    But since its you we’re talking about, let’s just go with unreasoning hatred.

  • “When you don’t have a valid argument, you hate.”

    Given the huge number of Christians who live by that rule, it probably should have been the Eleventh Commandment.

  • How sad that the BSA leadership has caved to radical pressure. Gay psychiatrist, Dr. Jack Drescher, informs us that only “6 to 23 percent of boys and 12 to 27 percent of girls treated in gender clinics showed persistence of their gender dysphoria into adulthood”.

    Therefore, most of these children (at least 77 percent of boys and 73 percent of girls) will give up this notion that they are trapped in a body of the wrong sex. It would be less confusing and thus better for “transgenders” and for the other children around them if transgenderism was discouraged. The Boy Scouts continue to do a disservice to the gender dysphoric children and to the other Boy Scouts.

    https://www.pdf-archive.com/2015/09/10/drescher-et-al-2014-hastings-center-report/preview/page/6/#dl

  • Certainly there is no harm in having an alternative to the BSA, they are not warranted a monopoly on character building strategies for male youth. Since Trail Life has a specific philosophy that lines up with a sizable segment of the populace it is a legitimate option for people uncomfortable with the changing stance of the BSA.

  • Excellent point. As is common with most questions regarding human sexuality, adolescents it seems are sometimes confused as their bodies undergo the transition into physical sexual maturity, this is often compounded by the changing mores of the culture, but most generally revert to form.

  • The description in the title isn’t specific enough — Trail Life is a TRINITARIAN Christian organization, anyone that doesn’t hew to the Nicene Creed need not apply. What that has to do with the moral values they seek to inculcate, I have no idea.

  • I predict the Boy Scouts will simply become “the scouts” in a few years. Any child will be welcome to join. The boys will lose interest and the organization will become dominated by girls.

  • They aren’t mistreating anyone. On the contrary, forcing a biological girl into a boy’s group or a biological boy into a girl’s group is mistreating everyone of those children. But for people who don’t accept the science of biology and only go on the faith of their “feelings,” that must seem difficult to understand.

  • Well, then the people who decide their gender based on “faith” and not on scientific biology shouldn’t try to interject their imaginary faith based beliefs about their gender into boy scouts. If they have to use imaginary fairy tales to determine their gender instead of scientific biology, then they are without a doubt interjecting faith/religious dogma into boy scouts.

  • I still don’t get the vehemence and hostility to trans people other than as an easy target to be hysterical about. TFrankly I couldn’t care less if church groups beholden to bigotry get up and leave the BSA.

    Transgenederism is medically recognized, so I am not sure what you are referring to. Are you trying to say you are an expert in gender psychology and have published research work in the field upending what is known on the subject?

  • The headline is false: There is nothing remotely Christian about bullying and ostracizing LGBT youth. Leave it to RNS to write unprofessional and inaccurate headlines.

    RNS also should have called out Trail Life for lying about its position on marriage: Its leadership overwhelmingly supported the multiple adulteries, sexual assaults, and attempted abortion by Donald Trump, after demonizing the Christian family values of the Obama family.

  • Every organization based on the constitutional principle free association of citizens can exclude people. A church can exclude those who don’t subscribe to its religious faith and practice, and an atheist organization can exclude non-atheists. Any organization or club with a certain defined purpose can exclude those who oppose this purpose, or who don’t agree with its statutes and principles. This is simply a matter of internal discipline. It has nothing to do with discrimination. Those excluded from such an organization are free to erect their own church or club. It’s a free country. Citizens have a right to choose with whom they want to associate themselves and who can be a member of their clubs. The principle is simpe: If you don’t like it here, go elsewhere.

  • The Boy Scouts did not ACCEPT Transgender youth, the law changed in 5 states and many more are doings so this year. The BSA had no choice. The entire basis of your article is incorrect and erroneous.

  • You have no idea what the truth is. Educate yourself, and be like Christ if you call yourself a Christian.

  • Sorry but Dr. Drescher is full of crap. As the parent of a transgender son I can tell you very few transgender children “revert” back.

  • So your a psychiatrist now?

    Haters gotta hate. Christians of a certain stripe need someone to demonize in public or they feel so inadequate. 🙂

  • Christians of a certain stripe?? what does that mean? What theological background do you have? Scientifically for all of the history of mankind, there have been man and woman. Chromosomes and genitalia determine whether you are male of female. Theologically speaking, God created man and woman., not man and woman, and a few others in between, and whatever you want to call yourself now. oh, and here is the definition of sexual dysphoria

    Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the dysphoria (distress) a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth.

    The American College of Pediatricians calls allowing child transgender, child abuse

  • You are under the mistaken delusion that your specifically sectarian views are shared universally for an entire faith of about 1.2 billion people. I understand the need to have a group you can exhibit hostility towards in a public setting. There are so few socially acceptable ones left these days. So now you go after people who have a clearly defined and medically recognized psychological condition. Pure manufactured hostility for its own sake.

    The “American College of Pediatricians” is not a group which speaks for the profession in any reasonable sense. It is one of many innocuous sounding groups to give conservative bigots the appearance of medical or scientific support, but not the reality of it. They are a hate group notorious for publishing defamatory work for the purposes of furthering discrimination.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians
    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/organizations/american-college-of-pediatricians/

  • The press should not be forced to play the no-true-Christian game. Trail Life identifies as a specifically Christian organization, the headline was accurate. The stuff about marriage is par for the course with evangelical support of Trump, but was not germane to the article.

  • First off, I am in no way delusional. Looking at your profile, since you haven’t answered your theological background/leaning, I am going to assume you are an atheist. I’m not sure how that qualifies you to know the differences from one denomination of Christian to another.
    Secondly, Biblical Truths are Biblical truths, there is no getting around it. While there are some areas that are up for debate, bedrock principles are not.
    Thirdly, I have shown no hostility to anyone. In fact it could be said that you are being hostile towards myself, merely for having a different opinion. it could also be said that you are acting in the worst interests of those suffering from dysphoria, because you are capitulating to them and all9owing them to continue their harmful delusion. If someone is a heroin addict, you don’t tell them everything is ok and they are fine to continue. A child while they are young and growing, go through many different stages, while they grow, and hormones adjust and change over time. to disrupt this process, under the guise of ‘allowing them to be themselves’, while they don’t even know who they are yet, causes significant damage to them physically and psychologically. There is not one thing I have expressed here that can be legitimately described as being hateful. Unless you declare any one who disagrees with you as hateful.

  • “First off, I am in no way delusional.”

    You pretend to speak for an entire faith. Its a common delusion of the fundamentalist bent. I am sorry my profile does not give you room for ad hominem nonsense. One will know Christians of all stripes by their deeds and words. Yours tell me what I need to know here.

    “Secondly, Biblical Truths are Biblical truths, there is no getting around it. ”

    Biblical Truths are so clear that Christianity has over 500 sects who can’t agree on what they are.

    People always make such claims when they want to avoid responsibility for their views. Somehow as if proof-texting the Bible can somehow insulate themselves from the malicious and dishonest behavior they exhibit. Sorry, the old, “Its not really my opinion, God says I can treat people like crap” argument doesn’t fly. Its a spineless passive aggressive argument. An attempt to pretend one’s hatreds and fears can somehow be considered socially acceptable if the blame is put on scripture rather than themselves. No Theodore, the Bible doesn’t compel you to attack other people. You just choose to read it in a way to excuse behavior.

    “Thirdly, I have shown no hostility to anyone.”

    Other than trans people. Especially by citing to a hate group masquerading as a medical professional organization.

    “because you are capitulating to them and all9owing them to continue their harmful delusion.”

    Again, the question comes whether you are now pretending you are a psychiatrist here. You want to pretend you know what you are talking about. I am not going to enable such nonsense.

    Experts in the field do not share your view in any way. I trust them over someone who feels the need to invoke self-serving religious nonsense first and foremost to address a medical subject.
    https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

    “Unless you declare any one who disagrees with you as hateful.”

    People who make stuff up in order to marginalize and attack others already demonstrate they are hateful with or without my declaration. It is an easy label to give because the evidence comes from their own words.

  • You can do the same thing, but you are doing it badly.

    “because you refused to answer a simple question”

    Because it has no bearing on the argument and none of your business. Only fodder for ad hominem nonsense. If you want to know my beliefs, you can find them the same way I know yours. From what you say. You act as if you are unique in the claims you make. Far from it. Its a rather tired form of argument by declaration made by certain Christians.

    You throw words like “Biblical principles” about because you don’t want to subject your ideas to criticism or take responsibility for them. It is far less to do with conforming your behavior in line with the teachings of Jesus as it is massaging scriptural text to conform in line with your behavior. So Jesus follows your beliefs and somehow agrees with your petty likes and dislikes.
    It is a rather spineless way to address your personal beliefs and addresses a basic egotism common in fundamentalist belief. An unwillingness on your own part to take responsibility for your statements and actions.

    “Core principles of Christianity are not debated.”

    What constitutes “core principles” varies from sect to sect. You are right, debate isn’t really in the Christian wheelhouse. Persecution, sectarian splits and namecalling has always been the method of dealing with differences on such ideas. For centuries such issues were cause for sectatian bloodshed. The reality of such beliefs is far more ambiguous and messy than you will be honest about.

    “a far left wing hate group People For the American Way, which is, in large part, funded by Soros.”

    They are a hate group because….????? They support civil liberties? You oppose their agenda?

    “Because the organization is a more conservative group, does not allow classification as a hate group”

    A conservative group with a specific political agenda of discrimination against a segment of the population. They publish papers for the purpose of supporting legalized discrimination. That makes them a hate group by any objective standard. I don;t see People for the American Way advocating the attack of civil liberties of others.

    My link to psychiatry.org has citations and references directly to the professional organizations and standards accepted in the field.

    “But you are going to allow hormone suppression on children, when they
    may or may not continue? in fact only 6%-23% of children that are
    affected by this disorder continue into adulthood.”

    Your credentials in medicine are from where? There are experts who can address such issues. You are clearly not one of them.

  • basically, your arguments boil down to, “because I don’t wanna”, and “My source is valid, but yours isn’t”. Let me argue with you in the fashion you are arguing.

    Your opinion is invalid and bigoted about Christianity, because you aren’t a theologian, so therefore you know nothing. people for the american way are fascists because they are demanding people with morals and traditional values to accept and condone objectionable practices. Yes they are a hate group, because they attack anything that is traditionally based in Christianity. You have intellectually deficient arguments that are barely above the argument of a child. if any one disagrees with you they are hateful. your attacking the American Pediatric association by calling them a hate group, is not valid. You don’t have a political science degree, and you aren’t capable of being Objective. i have given reasonable positions based on facts and my own research , and life experience. You have done nothing but say, that I have no qualifications to speak, I’m wrong, I don’t know what I’m talking about and I’m hateful as are all the people i associate with. Have a good day.

  • Well, hey. Now you can have it. It’s all yours. Those of faith can join Trail Life and you can keep the dying BSA. This is not rocket science. Good luck.

  • Really? Then why did the Boy Scout Oath include a religious requirement and morality to be a Boy Scout?

    On my honor, I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

    Looks pretty straight forward to me, especially the morally straight part.

  • Really? That is what you got out of that?

    I vetted your reference and found it questionable (and supported my statements with informative links). You spout a nonsense reply and can’t back it up.

    I am judging your version of Christianity by your own words. Simply taking Jesus to heart when he tells the world, “you will know them by their fruits” Matthew 7:20. Your words paint the picture of someone who is dishonest and malicious. The fact that you seek to use scripture to support such behavior speaks badly for your version of religious belief. No theologian necessary to see exactly what you are doing and to call it out.

    “if any one disagrees with you they are hateful.”

    Especially when
    they disagree with me on the notion of all treating people humanely
    without being discriminated against and victimized. Because that is
    genuinely hateful behavior. You seem to have more trouble with the label
    than you do in refuting why it would be appropriate.

    “people for the american way are fascists because they are demanding
    people with morals and traditional values to accept and condone
    objectionable practices”

    Since when do you guys have morals and traditional values? That is always something people like you beat others about the head with but never adhere to personally. The current Christian support of a serial adulterer, cheat, liar, bigot and sexual predator really doesn’t do much to show that they have anything concerning moral fiber or integrity. At this point when American Christian conservatives talk about morals and traditional values, they can all go eff themselves as the opportunistic liars they are. 🙂

    More importantly, you are moaning that an organization opposes efforts treat others maliciously and discriminate. That you have to abide by the same anti-discrimination laws as everyone else. Oh you poor thing, having to recognize civil liberties applies to everyone, not just you. How terrible!

    “American Pediatric association by calling them a hate group, is not valid.”

    Other than the documented facts that they publish works for the specific purpose of enabling discrimination against others. Which by anyone who is honest about the subject, would be the definition of the sort of thing a hate group has. You are not an honest person.

    You have done everything BUT give a reasonable position. You simply declare your animosity to trans people, deny their existence, cite a hate group’s take on the subject, and just declare “its god’s word”. Its not only unreasonable, its lazy to boot. What people do when they are too spineless to accept their ideas will be criticized.

  • Hey Adelle, thanks for the article! Trail Life’s highest award is the Freedom Award which is viewed as parallel to the Eagle. The Horizon award is the rank below Freedom. I earned the rank back in September.

  • Notice that the gays NEVER tried to start their “own” group? Why? It was to tear down the fabric of the BSA, pure and simple.

  • The BSA can’t really say the scout oath or laws anymore since morally straight and reverent would have to be deleted, since they aren’t pertinent anymore. I wonder if Trail Life would include Lord Baden Powell into its program since he wanted to provide a program like the BSA should have done , but failed.

  • No, transgenderism isn’t being medically recognized. It’s being socially recognized. There is absolutely no legitimate medical science whatsoever behind any of it. Believing you’re a different sex/gender (synonyms, btw) doesn’t make you a different sex/gender any more than believing you’re a different age or species makes you a different age or species. Delusional thinking can NEVER change one’s DNA and chromosomes, which unquestioningly determine one’s permanent sex/gender.

  • “You pretend to speak for an entire faith.”

    And you pretend to speak for an entire faith, painting it in the most negative light possible with your accusations that we hate certain people.

  • Please do keep up. We went over that already. They are still a hate group.

    BTW find any LGBT advocacy group which supported the act? Of course not Sparky.

    The intruder in FRCs office was a small scale amateur to his intended target. But the FRC advocated mass murder of all gays in Uganda. They would advocate it here if they could get away with it.

    Got anything else?

  • “Its leadership overwhelmingly supported the multiple adulteries, sexual
    assaults, and attempted abortion by Donald Trump, after demonizing the
    Christian family values of the Obama family.”

    Hey, everyone, look! More fake news from the left! lol!

  • You Christians do it yourselves.

    Nobody can make you guys sound any worse than the stuff which comes out of your mouths. Every ridiculously dishonest euphemism, every proof text argument, every bit of self righteous egotistic preening, every bigoted attack in others discretion you guys.

    Anyone who uses a “God says it’s OK to hate those people” argument is showing how dishonest, childish and afraid of criticism they are.

    Your dishonest denial is duly noted.

  • Nope. Try again. I am not the one denying the existence of people’s conditions nor advocate treating them badly. That is all you guys.

  • Oh, good, good. We’re at the logical fallacy stage of atheists’ arguments against God. Well, that wasn’t difficult to get to because they’re all logical fallacies.

    Atheists’ Argument From Bad Things Happen to Children
    1. If God exists, then nothing bad would ever happen to children
    2. Pedophile priests have raped children
    3. God either doesn’t care or doesn’t exist
    4. Therefore, God doesn’t exist

  • Yep, because it’s primarily a Christian organization (or was — not anymore) and they wish to either radically pervert or destroy anything Christian.

  • I wonder, too, if they’ll start welcoming adults who “identify” as children (like the one freak who thinks he’s a little girl — you can find his videos on YouTube).

  • Except for the medical profession which recognizes the condition. A group of professional bigots cited earlier doesn’t change that.

    Your assertions about the medical science are not supported by what they actually say on the subject as previously cited. The consensus in the field of psychology and those organizations which speak for the entire profession state gender diasphorism is a real thing.

    They are the experts. You are just a mouthy amateur looking for someone to treat like sht in a socially acceptable fashion.

  • Hello Spuddie’
    I want you to know that God loves you whether you know it or not. He also wants you to know that what you think matters to him. If you get a Bible you can understand, you should read very carefully the following verses:
    Leviticus 20:13
    Deuteronomy 22:5
    Romans 1:26 – 27

    And for those who endorse the idea that homosexuality and transgenderism is O.K.

    Read Romans 1:32 about giving approval to the homosexual agenda.

    All in plain English and black and white leaving you and others without excuse.

    I love you and don’t want to see you suffering in Hell because you believe the things you do. Read the above scriptures and know that God loves you and doesn’t want you to go to Hell for approving the homosexual agenda.

  • The world could do without what passes for “Christian love” from some circles. Christian being the qualifier which makes the term mean something less than it normally is.

    Save me the phony cover for religious attitudes. You want to treat people like crap and are too spineless own up to your feelings. So you prooftext scripture to claim God allegedly shares your personal bigotry. It is not some kind of concern for others.

    You want to attack people with a recognized psychological condition. That makes you a bad person by any standard.

    It’s not God which hates gays, it’s you. Now go to hell.

  • Which is a good thing to note since morality has zero to do with the attitudes and positions I am opposing.

    Arbitrary proof texting of scripture to excuse attacking people is hardly an exercise in moral thought.

  • By all means. The BSA membership decline began 20 years ago with the declared discriminatory policies. It drove corporate, public service, and non religious charities to avoid sponsorship they had done in the last. You guys wrecked it. Now it’s up to good moral people to save it.

    Interestingly enough my old Boy Scout Troop, which has a secular sponsor (The American Legion) is larger than it ever was when I was a kid. They produce Eagle Scouts at a rate of about two a year.

  • Your knowledge of how genetics lead to sex dimorphic development is sorely lacking in anything more recent than say, the 1970’s. In fact, I’d recommend stopping lest you appear the fool.

    A couple of examples:

    In recent years we’ve learned that there are people who were assigned female at birth, grew up as girls, went through a normal girl puberty, got married, pregnant, successfully delivered and then…a chance genotype found they were XY. No one had looked before b/c the test was too expensive in the past and why check if they’d had a baby? More have been found since, btw, it wasn’t just a one-off.

    Also, the crucial genes to trigger “male” development of various body parts as a fetus and later, such as SRY & others can transpose to other chromosomes & be carried to descendants resulting in XX boys.

  • No, it wasn’t. There’s been a several decades long push to get transgenderism normalized because of its association with the LBGT political and social movement. The argument is, if homosexuality and bisexuality are normal, then trandgenderism is normal too, and thus, also genetically predetermined. Homosexuality is the ONLY mental disorder to be removed as a mental disorder with no scientific fact to back it up. The LGBT movement should have never been covered under the Equality Act, but under The Americans with Disabilities Act.

  • The only ones being attacked here are the Boy Scouts for allowing this. There’s no sectarian religious organization here attacking the parents or the transgendered children joining the Boy Scouts. They’re reacting to the BSA abandoning their base to accommodate a very small few. If anyone’s doing the attacking, it’s you, because it offends your atheist beliefs. Why does a guy that doesn’t exist upset you so much? It’s like being mad at people who believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny because they think they exists.

  • Well you follow the law, which allowed you to treat people like crap. Now you are going to your own club to do the same. Fine. Whatever.

  • Bullshit. Lord Baden Powell founded it as a response to the various sectarian boys clubs to foster nationalism that transcended religious ties. It was always meant as non sectarian.

    Many troops are sponsored by groups having nothing to do with Christianity. I am an Eagle Scout. So I do know a thing or two about the organization. You are either misinformed or a liar.

  • It’s a comment on the manufactured hate and hostility conservative Christians have now suddenly developed for trans people.

  • You are a sock puppet? Theo can defend his own statements without a cheerleader. Your hostility and bigotry is duly noted.

  • Not even close to true. Psychology experts have always been a major part of gender reassignment procedure protocols. It is their input to determine whether one is really a trans individual which is required for approval for the procedure. So no, it is neither recent nor politically motivated.

    Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness without scientific support. As was the notion of changing orientation through torture. Modern psychology recognizes the errors in such classifications.

    You want to treat gays as less than people so you deny their existence as a distinct class. You want them treated as a distinct class for discrimination purposes but hypocritically don’t recognize it means they have civil liberties as a class as well.

  • Boy Scouts are not a sectarian religious organization. Never were. They were founded as an alternative to such things.

    I am not angry at all. I encourage religious minded bigots to send their kids to their own clubs. I am just noting the manufactured hostility certain Christians have to trans people.

  • The US is predominantly Christian too, that doesn’t mean Christian groups within the US can’t use it as an identifier. BSA is to a certain extent a faith-based organization, but that doesn’t make it a Christian one. Trail Life is explicitly not only Christian, but explicitly Trinitarian, I can only assume because they want to keep Mormons out. So inclusive, right?

  • I’m saddened that so many Christians say people will go to hell for being a trans or gay. It does NOT state that on any Bible. Even if (and I do believe) it’s a sin, God holds all sin equal. So sadly the Christians judging (which is a sin)the trans and spouting their faith implying they are better really aren’t any different. We are all sinner’s, and we are all equal to our heavenly Father. I pray we can learn to treat each other as such. I pray that people do not believe that just because these people are saying these things means you will go to hell. God loves each and EVERY one of us no matter what our sins. He wants you to love him and love your neighbor. To know that he would die for you and loves you more than a parent loves a child. Unconditional love means there are no ifs, ands, or buts… Just love and forgiveness. You should all try it sometime!! I love you all and hope you find peace in this sinful world.

  • Yes and no, cas1210. I would explain it like this:

    There’s only one reason people go to hell – not repenting of their sin against God and asking for His forgiveness, the price of which was paid for by His Son, Jesus. If a person accepts Jesus as their saviour, they are saved from hell.

    If a person is sincere about this decision, it will be followed by a natural desire to please God, but it takes time to learn what pleases God and to allow God to change them. Part of that process is being taught – from the scripture verses in the Bible, what is sin and what is not. We rightfully judge behavior, as instructed by God to do so. But, we never dare to judge a man’s heart – that is God’s right and no one else’s. So, we cannot say who is going to hell and who isn’t, but we rightfully judge sinful behavior by comparing it to God’s Word.

  • Trail Life are hypocrites. They accept gays. At least the BSA is upfront with everyone and doesn’t hide that fact. Trail Life might even accept transgendered boys who identify as girls as their policy of accepting “sexually confused” youth is very unclear.

    Wake up, America! Look into organizations that claim to be “Christian” Trail Life are hypocrites. The Baptist RA program is the only Christian alternative.

  • Could you please tell me where in the Bible it says to “judge behavior, instructed by God”? I’m not a Bible scholar but don’t ever remember seeing that

  • I have shown you what scriptures you need to read. Now, I am not responsible for your future fate. You are now without excuse when God asks you why you didn’t heed his word. I don’t hate anyone. I am not allowed to hate anyone if I am a christian. God doesn’t hate gays or transexuals, He loves them. But, he doesn’t love the sins, and performing gay acts is an abomination to HIM. He won’t condemn a gay person to Hell if he doesn’t act on the feelings he may have. Instead, He will give a gay person the power to not perform the acts and forgive him of all of his other sins as well. He will also forgive you if you ask him to. I treat all people I meet with love and respect. I know I am going to Heaven because of what his Son Jesus Christ did. I can never get to Heaven by anything I do. I am a sinner and will always be one just as you are. But, I am forgiven of my sins. God sent his Son Jesus to die for everyones sins because He loves all of us.

    May God Bless You and Help you.

  • I need to read? No. You are making empty citations and making the egotistical claim they your take on them is the only way to read the Bible.

    You are a spineless person who does not want the responsibility of their own views. So you proof text scripture to fit them. Isn’t that you are following the Bible, you are having the Bible follow you.

    God doesn’t hate gays, you do. You look for excuses not to treat them like human beings. It is not what moral or even loving people would do. It reeks of spite, malice and dishonesty in your heart. Calling such behavior love is insulting to the term. You are a terrible person, citing scripture won’t change that.

  • I answered you the other day. I don’t know why my comments are not showing here. I’ll paste them in. Glad I copied it.

  • More lies. Wow, you don’t even recognize propaganda when it’s shoved under your nose. Sycophant, look it up in the dictionary. It’s right next to your picture.

  • Oh yes they were. One of the biggest requirements for joining the Boy Scouts was a belief in God. Wow, your revisionist history is awful. You need to stop reading the atheist propaganda. It’s rotted your brain, bigot.

  • You are as ignorant as you are belligerent. Non sectarian does not mean atheist. It means not adhering to any given sects or faith. Belief in religion, any religion is encouraged but not a big requirement. In fact religious awards are entirely optional and encompass many faiths. The scouts were formed as an alternative to youth groups aligned with a specific church. The Boy scouts are not required to follow the tenets of any given faith. Merely acknowledge that people have such beliefs.

    This is stuff anyone can look up. Your need to defend your faith makes you either ignorant or spout obvious fictions.

  • Troll says what? I guess you don’t have any facts to bring up in response so you go right to personal attack. Oh well.

  • Who need facts to counter opinions and lies? Name calling and derision is the remedy for lowlifes such as you.

  • And here’s where your ignorance takes over your pea sized brain. Belonging to a religion was one of the biggest requirements, besides being a boy, to joining the Boy Scouts since its inception up till the 90’s, when amoral atheists started suing them through the ACLU. You need to get checked out, boy. Your I.Q. test came back negative.

  • Troll says what?
    The American Psychiatric Association (the official professional body for guidance in the field of Psychiatry) recognizes it and the need for the input of mental health professionals for medical intervention (aka gender reassignment procedures)

    “Physicians usually require that any transgender client who wants a medical intervention be assessed first by a mental health provider.”
    http://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/04/transgender.aspx

    So take your opinions and shove them.

  • You are too caught up with being a nasty turd to understand what is being said here. You are also not addressing what I was saying either.

    Belonging to a religion is read as ANY religion. It does not adhere to the tenets of a single faith or sect. Meaning it is not a Christian organization or bound by the dictates of any Christian sect. So when another poster ignorantly stated the Boy Scouts was based on Christian religion, they were wrong. In fact Scouting branches outside the US don’t take the hard line on religious belief as a requirement.

    My Boy Scout troop when I was a kid had a secular sponsor (American Legion) and leaders/members of at least 4 different religious groups. They were chartered as an alternative to the scout troop in the same town which was sponsored by the local Catholic Church.

    Btw were you even in the Boy Scouts? You don’t sound like you were.

    As for “amoral atheists”. I see less moral fiber and character coming from “Conservative Christians” around here than any other group. It always comes down to using religion as an excuse to treat others like crap and being too spineless to own up to one’s own personal prejudices.

  • So wait, there is nobody named Steve in the world?

    (Facepalms)

    Yes I get it, you are a spineless bigot who thinks using religion makes their prejudice suddenly acceptable. What else is new.

  • There is man and there is woman and the only in between is a Hermaphrodite which they were born that way and had no choice. Being transgender on the other hand is not by birth, it is a MH issue and not a medical issue. People want to make it a medical issue to justify it but it is not. Just because you think you are a woman or think you are a man does not make you one, and no matter how much you argue your DNA will never change, that is for certain. Everyone has lost their minds trying to force this issue down peoples throat. You cannot tell a person what to believe or what to accept because they have rights themselves. They have their our mind, and value system therefore they matter as well! There lies issue with all of this, people trying to force feed people their lifestyle down everyone throats and convince or guilt anyone who doesn’t agree that they are wrong. Well good luck with that………and for me personally, this has nothing to do with being a Christian or not, this has to do with what my personal opinion of what right and wrong is. I would never treat anyone different because of their lifestyle but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with it, accept it, or think it is OK.

  • Above all a Scout is Trustworthy. How can you be a Scout if you can’t be trusted to be honest about your physiology? If you are a girl, with a uterus and vagina, pretending to be a boy, your body operates differently than a boy. And if your entire identity is based on a LIE, you cannot fulfill the most basic requirements of Scouting. Go play soccer, or join the Girl Scouts, who have been a progressive highly sexualized organization for decades. Thousands of lesbian and deviant Girl Scout leaders involved in that organization is OK with LGBT/Liberals, because who better to groom a little girl than a lesbian?

    Liars, by definition are not trustworthy. It is time for all of left wing, liberal , progressives and LGBT militants to STOP sexualizing children. The LGBT/Liberal agenda of grooming children for sex acts is well known to the world. Scouting is not a venue for gay men and other sexual deviants to groom and rape children.

    Not to mention the liability issues and logistics that have to be addressed to facilitate co-ed travel, camping, and overnights and keep everyone safe and happy.

    So to all of the deviants, liberals and progressives who have infiltrated and are working to destroy these programs: Stop preying on children and leave now. You won’t be missed, and you won’t risk physical harm after you commit your crimes. It’s only a matter of time before you start attacking the children. You were made that way, remember?

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