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Christian author Jen Hatmaker on the ‘moxie’ it takes to get your books banned

Author Jen Hatmaker. Photo courtesy of Jen Hatmaker

Author Jen Hatmaker. Photo by Amy Melsa Photography

(RNS) It’s been a roller-coaster year for Christian author and speaker Jen Hatmaker.

She toured the country last fall, speaking on the Belong Tour to arenas packed with Christian women. Then this year’s tour was canceled.

She spoke out, welcoming LGBT Christians at events, in Facebook posts and in an interview with RNS columnist Jonathan Merritt. Then LifeWay Christian stores pulled her books from its shelves over her stance on same-sex relationships, and her name got pulled into an online debate over where evangelical Christian women get authority to teach and preach.

This summer, Hatmaker is launching a new podcast, “For the Love with Jen Hatmaker,” that already is set to hit a million downloads in its first month. And she’s releasing a new book — her 12th — in which she says she shares more about her family’s ups and downs than in any other book she’s written.

Of Mess and Moxie: Wrangling Delight Out of This Wild and Glorious Life” will be released on Tuesday (Aug. 8). Hatmaker spoke with RNS about both mess and moxie, banned books and maintaining a healthy outlook on life. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

“Of Mess and Moxie” by Jen Hatmaker. Image courtesy of Thomas Nelson

You write about some of the challenges you and your family have dealt with recently in this book — and some of them have played out in headlines, too. How do you face those things with moxie?

For me, it’s simple. It is staying really deeply and authentically connected to my real community. If I’m too much in the internet world or I’m too much in defense mode or I’m out on social media and my grip starts slipping off my family and my people, I instantly feel it. That’s a red flag for me. I need to put my feet in some grass and just be still with God and listen, and that is incredibly renewing for me as it is for all of humankind.

And then no matter what is going on in my life, I need to make sure I am living a good story. I can’t write a good story if I am not living one, and sometimes the work of being a “professional Christian” in terms of being a writer or a speaker or a preacher and a teacher, it can take the life right out of your faith.

So I need to make sure that my faith is vibrant, that my life is vibrant, that I’m connected to my neighbors and to my city and to my church, and those things keep me grounded so when the winds start to blow in any way, whether it’s plain old-fashioned hardship or if it’s criticism or whatever those winds look like, those things anchor me down so I can stand in the storm.

You took a stand last fall saying LGBT relationships can be holy, and it got your books banned from LifeWay stores. Why was that important to you?

I just sort of have this dream for the church where it is safe and it is wide and it is generous and it includes all of our voices. For the longest time, the church has essentially had one voice — sort of the white, male voice. I’m starting to realize how much the church is missing when we silence whole people groups, like you’re either not welcome at all, or you’re welcome but not your voice, not your experience, not your life, and I saw that with the LGBTQ community.

When you see that much pain in a people group at the hands of the church, just my fundamental spiritual sensibility says something is wrong here simply because this is not the way God designed his community. In God’s community when you read Scripture he says these are the things you’re going to see in a healthy spiritual space: You’re going to see love, you’re going to see joy, you’re going to see peace and patience and kindness and generosity and unity and community. So when, in any scenario with any people group, we see the exact opposite — we see pain and harm and self-harm and broken families and rejection and loss in mass capacity, not as an exception, but as a rule — at some point, we just have to ask questions.

And so that was enough for me — of course, it’s a much longer story than that— to at least to begin to ask those questions and to say, “As far as it depends on me, I hope what I am doing not just in my leadership capacity, but just in my faith, my life, my obedience as a believer, is that I am always trying to widen the table and bring people in as opposed to shrinking the table and keeping people out.”

You write more about that in your essay “Sanctuary” in this book. It seems like the crux of your theology.

Absolutely. And I have a real heart for people who color outside the lines in any way, be it their history, their experience, their personality. Let’s be honest: There’s sort of a sanctioned personality that typically works within organized religion, the one that’s going to probably get the applause and the stamp of approval, and then there’s a personality that does not.

Speaking of “sanctioned” personalities, your name was invoked this spring in an online debate about female bloggers and a so-called crisis of authority in evangelicalism. What do you make of this debate?

I don’t think it is a crisis, and I think I appreciated at least the original intent of the article. Like these things do on social media, they often just take on a life of their own. Once everybody starts piling on and adding their two cents and taking this or that out of context and using it to bolster their agenda, at some point the tail starts wagging the dog and the best thing to do is just walk away until the dumpster fire burns out.

I just think we’re in unprecedented times. All of a sudden in our time we have a lot of powerful women who lead enormous spaces and have built and earned and garnered a lot of influence, and I think it’s wonderful. I think it’s fabulous. Back to my last point, it has brought in an important voice to the body of Christ — that’s the feminine voice and women who are smart and capable and godly. I think both in and out of credentials, so to speak, God is empowering and anointing women just en masse right now. You cannot deny it. You cannot look at the fruit of the ministry of women right now and claim we are in crisis. I think it’s the absolute opposite. It’s a wonderful time to be alive.

You headlined the Belong Tour last year. This fall’s tour was canceled because of low ticket sales. I know you’ve said you had nothing to do with that decision, but do you have any thoughts on why it was made?

As these things often are, it’s pretty complicated, and there is a lot of nuance to the whole dismantling that never really saw the light of day. There was more than one factor including new ownership, who ultimately made their own decision, and I think they’re going to take the brand in a completely different direction.

But I also think maybe the days of, like, arena tours are probably over. They had their place, and Women of Faith — which is, of course, the same brand — was an early adopter to that sort of gathering of women in that capacity to that scale and scope. This may just be my personality and my preference talking, but I think something less polished and more genuine is where we’re at. I’d rather see the content shift into something meaningful and deep, even hard. I think discomfort is one of the great deterrents of the church in our generation because nobody wants to ask the hard questions and sit in the tension or even be in a room where you disagree. We’d rather it feel comfortable and homogenous.

You do write about facing challenges in this book, but you also include a lot of humor. And you ask: “Is it even okay to have fun when there is so much suffering in our communities and churches and world?”

The truth is everything right now in our world — it feels like a circus. I absolutely could be at DEFCON 4 24 hours a day. I finally had to say I am not going to get up and watch CNN with my morning coffee because I was starting out my day in such awful headspace. Even closer in, all of us have a lot of struggle in our world. There’s no end to it, and there never will be.

So there’s this whole question of, “Golly, can I still be faithful and take a vacation?” “Can I still be faithful and laugh at a dumb movie?” “Is there any other response that makes sense to this world other than grief, sorrow and outrage?” That’s the trifecta right now. That’s what I see everywhere.

Sometimes those are the right things. But the truth is we’re also surrounded by joy and beauty, and God gave us those on purpose. He created a lot of wonder in this world, and I think he gave us laughter and I think he gave us deep and meaningful relationships and I think he gave us fun. One only has to look at the world he made to deduce that.

Somewhere between those two things is a healthy life where we do not lose our optimism, nor do we lose our activism. We care about both. We can experience both and do both.

About the author

Emily McFarlan Miller

Emily McFarlan Miller is a national reporter for RNS based in Chicago. She covers evangelical and mainline Protestant Christianity.

73 Comments

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  • “Christian book stores” are not “Christian” per se usually, but fundamentalist book stores in effect. To be banned by these demanders of political correctness is indeed a badge of honor for Hatmaker.

  • Depends on who does the banning, and why.
    Who: Lifeway.
    Why: Obvious.
    A badge of honor for Jen Hatmaker on this issue? Not possible.

    The Bible explains why, of course. And so does the former lesbian, Prof. Rosaria Butterfield, whose 2016 response to Hatmaker is charitable but totally sobering:

    “Today, I hear Jen’s words—words meant to encourage, not discourage, to build up, not tear down, to defend the marginalized, not broker unearned power—and a thin trickle of sweat creeps down my back. If I were still in the thick of the battle over the indwelling sin of lesbian desire, Jen’s words would have put a millstone around my neck.

  • Floydlee, you realize the testimony of those who have reframed their sexual inclinations/choices/tendencies towards the heterosexual norm…or celibacy, will cut no ice with others who disdain their claims. I do not fault you for citing such a one, indeed I hope people will at least examine her story with the same enthusiasm that they hold for Ms. Hatmaker, but my sense of history finds no encouragement there.

  • Conservatives make a big noise about speakers not being allowed on college campuses and moan about freedom to speak their mind. But they are typically silent when writers get banned by these Christian publishers. Speech is for me and not for thee.

  • Hatmaker seems to have framed her Christianity around her inner self, not the clear explicit principles of scripture. I hope she finds her way out of herself and into the Word of God.

  • Well, the marketplace is not the same as a public forum….sooo….what does a college campus more closely represent….a marketplace, or a public forum? Arguably a college campus is a marketplace of ideas, but a bookstore is a real marketplace of products that the owner chooses to sell. And this retail environment is not the same as the baker’s, the florist’s, etc., because the retailer is not selling his own products but the products of other people. I hope we have not reached the point where the courts can now declare what a retailer may or may not stock.

  • I hear you, Edward. Many gays get so angry to hear this message, not least because of their own personal struggles. Seemingly unanswered prayers, “trapped” personal feelings, SSA temptations, unseen past issues.

    I privately told a gay activist, face-to-face, that I knew a real struggle was involved, and he looked right at me and said, “The struggle is everything.” We both paused several seconds, before continuing our talks.

    And me? Despite the Bible’s teachings, I didn’t really believe in people becoming FORMER homosexuals though the power of Christ….

    ….until the one guy I was sure would **never** escape gayness and the gay life — I even told God that I had NO faith on it! — was the one guy who Jesus allowed me to see His great and terrible healing power at point-blank range.

    Edward, that one miracle, it crashed my brain forever. Permanently altered my OWN life, let alone that former gay man’s life. The guy’s voice changed, you shoulda heard his voice! His facial countenance? It also changed.
    I better just shut up. But now I have hope for all the “disdainers”, be they gay or straight. Never can tell what will happen when God shows up.

  • Hatmaker seems to have framed her Christianity around her inner self

    Otherwise known as the “image” and “likeness” (Genesis 1:26) of God?

  • Splitting hairs. Complaining about speech being shut out is tough to do with a straight face when one is doing the same.

    Bear in mind I am not defending either practice. They both can be legally justified but I find them personally distasteful.

    But one should not make a big stink about the behavior of others when they engage in it themselves.

  • As a one-time fan of Hatmaker, who my millennial children warned me against, I have come to see her as a false prophet. That’s the thing about false prophets. So much of what they say sounds so good that you almost forget they are false prophets. Yes, we should have compassion for all, but Jesus doesn’t say we have one or the other, he says he brings both truth and love. Hatmaker wants the love without the truth and has tied up her teaching in identity politics instead of servanthood and the cross. Would that she would follow the leading of Beth Moore, who I have to believe has at times been a mentor. Moore understands we need both truth and compassion not one or the other–even when it is difficult. Jesus taught hard truths. And when we say anything goes because I feel better when I do what I want, we contribute to the chaos around us. And chaos it is. Allowing people to live any way they want has not made life better. And that applies to people on both the left and the right–to all of us–whether we are talking about sexuality or immigration or any number of things where somehow we have forgotten the cross and our identity in God and the things he wants–not our identity in self and the things we think we want. Screwtape is alive and well and laughing as he continues to deceive exactly as we have been warned he would.

  • :So there’s this whole question of, “Golly, can I still be faithful and take a vacation?” “Can I still be faithful and laugh at a dumb movie?” “Is there any other response that makes sense to this world other than grief, sorrow and outrage?” That’s the trifecta right now. That’s what I see everywhere.”

    I’ve been a Christian for about 60 years now, and I’ve never encountered ANYONE who wondered if laughing at a dumb movie or taking a vacation would be a challenge to their faithfulness to Christ! (Well, there were those primative, “hardshell” Baptists, but like the Shakers, they left the scene many years ago!)

  • And I’m sure if you go to a gay-themed book store you’ll find books on reparative therapy. LOL.

  • Not splitting hairs. Lifeway makes no bones about it that it is a conservative Christian book store. They wont sell her books for the same reason they won’t sell Book of Mormons etc. or pornography.

  • As bearers of the image of God, we can respect one another because of it. But when we worship the image of God that we bear, it becomes “autolatry.”

  • “That’s the thing about false prophets.”
    Exactly. Falsehood has to ride the wave of Truth – like a surfer on a board – to appropriate its energy and appeal (having none of its own), but – again, like the surfer – it is still an alien presence on the wave.

  • In short, butterfield doesn’t want anyone in position of authority and influence to challenge the garbage she is selling, lest she no longer have to confidence to sell it, and actually might be true to herself.

  • Your so-called ex-gays are just deceived. They have denied themselves the chance to love in order to attain political correctness. They are among the many victims of fundamentalism.

  • If you can’t reach God on your own merits, then your degree of depravity doesn’t matter much.

  • Nothing is impossible to God.
    Boy that testimony makes me want to go all pentecostal and shout Glory!

  • Yes, we should have compassion for all

    If your version of compassion is calling people “false prophets”, I’d hate to consider how you’d treat people if you didn’t have compassion. The idea makes a person shudder.

  • That’s exactly it, Butterfield and other so-called “ex-gays” have reframed their sexual inclinations/choices/tendencies. I do not disdain their claims, it just doesn’t change their actual sexual orientation. It merely means they have trained themselves not to want to have gay sex.

  • There are a lot more Primitive Baptists around today than there are Shakers. Scores of such churches. There are approximately two practicing Shakers today — two people, not two churches — at the only remaining community, in Sabbathday Lake Maine.

  • Jesus spoke quite frequently of false prophets and false teachers, and cautioned us to be vigilant about them. Nothing unusual about it.

  • 1. Jesus spoke against actual false prophets. Not people who are insufficiently condemning of gay people.
    2. More importantly… LynnW is NOT Jesus.

  • The apostles who wrote the NT epistles also cautioned the church to watch for false prophets and instructed them about how to recognize them. It’s the same then as now: everything is to be tested against the whole word of God.

    Interesting that when the disciples asked Jesus about what to expect in the future, the first words out of His mouth were: “Take care that none deceive you,” for false prophets would come who possibly could fool even the elect.

  • I think my definition of reframing is not precisely the same as yours, but if, as you argue, they have trained themselves not to want to have gays sex, could they not also train themselves to desire heterosexual sex? And is this not in fact a change in orientation? I’m not be snarky or sarcastic, I’m exploring the arguments and potentialities.

  • A very capable riposte, allow me to parry it with this response. Being made in the image of God requires that we treat everyone with dignity and respect, but the image and likeness does not equate with the personhood of God, therefore admonition and correction is wholly in play. Cheers.

  • I’ve seen the same transformation, only in reverse, it is definitely something taking place in the spiritual realm. I looked up the lady in question that you cited and was quite impressed. I have no difficulty in believing that such transformations take place, but I’ve also seen genuine Christians who do not receive such deliverance, and such becomes a cross they willingly bear. I only wish that such transformative cases would carry more weight within the community of LGBTQ “Christians.”

  • Not even that. They have trained themselves not to have it…maybe.

    Nothing like a homosexual hating homosexual, who start with self hatred and work down from there,

  • Too many of them have recanted their “genuine change”. Too many tried for decades to change, but somehow, did not. Alan Chambers is a good example. But google peterson Toscano. He could tell you more than I.

  • I don’t dispute total depravity, I just look at it differently. Our inability to attain sufficient holiness to please God on our own makes merely human gradations in good or evil ultimately meaningless. If the best of what we have to offer is nothing but “filthy rags” (and the Hebrew words here are somewhat graphic, akin to a discarded feminine hygiene product) then it’s rather ridiculous to try to distinguish different degrees of “filthiness.” Needless to say, we’re in no position to throw out the guidebook. “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.” Ps. 119:105

  • Lifeway Bookstores
    Our promises to our customers
    We will never abort a witch
    We will never burn a book

  • This still doesn’t address the issue of who is a false prophet. And having a different opinion on sexuality isn’t anywhere near that, except for people who worship their own heterosexuality.

  • Allowing people to live a lie is not compassion as Rosaria Butterfield has addressed with Ms. Hatmaker. I am actually quite compassionate with those I am called to minister on a whole host of things and if you knew me in person you would figure that out. I believe we are on equal ground at the foot of the cross. What I believe on this and other matters does not mean I think you flip a switch and voila, you are changed. Of course not. Many struggles are life-long journeys. I have walked a hard road with several friends without condemning them and I have my own issues with which I struggle and am not proud. Believing something to be true but loving someone regardless is compassion. I would hope my friends would do the same with me when I make un-Christlike choices. But seeing the chaos the sexual revolution has created and our determination to make either our hetero- or homo-sexual identity the be all and end all over our identity in Christ is a great issue. I call Jen Hatmaker a false prophet because she has tremendous influence. She is leading a number of people against what scripture teaches because feelings now supersede truth. As leaders we have a responsibility to truth. To change scripture as it has been understood for 2,000 years takes a special kind of acrobats no matter what Matthew Vines says. People like Sam Allberry, Wesley Hill, and Eve Tushnet provide a much better way, and all of us can learn from them about Spiritual Friendship that is far more important than our sexuality.

  • If your teachings contradict the revealed word of God, you’re a false teacher. That is why we are admonished to know the word and meditate upon it day and night. Only the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (as per Ephesians) can defend us from deception. “My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. “Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests” Hosea 4:6.

  • I follow your thought, but on this one we will probably, but respectfully, differ. Cheers.

  • I will not discount the right to a point of view based on personal experience, but that position cuts both ways. If one genuinely strove to re-orient their sexuality and failed, I see no reason to doubt either their efforts or their sincerity, but my reading of scripture requires that for such a person to continue to pursue Christ, they would then be bound by celibacy, as hard as that is for some people. At the same time, if someone affirms that they have indeed re-oriented their sexuality in favor of heterosexuality and are blessed therein, it is not my place to challenge them, unless evidence suggests otherwise. And I am convinced that such cases exist based on the most up to data regarding their lives that I have studied. As a Christian, I endeavor to navigate these waters carefully, cautiously, and with a due respect for both sets of protagonists. As I have affirmed repeatedly of late, due to a very insightful sermon by my pastor, we are all made in the express image and likeness of God. Be well.

  • Apart from Alan chambers, who for years said that Exodus could change people from gay to straight, but who first admitted that he was as gay as he ever was– he’s really bisexual, as so many of them are– and then admitted that 99% don’t change, you might also want to look up John Paulk.

    He was the former poster boy for “you can change.” He even appeared on the cover of Time 20 years ago. He swore he was heterosexual as heterosexual could be. A few years ago, he admitted he had lied and had always lied, and that he knew personally a number of people who had claimed they had changed, but were also lying through their discolored teeth. He wrote an apology to the gay community a few years ago, regretting all of the damage he had done because of his own issues.

    I would take what he says far more seriously than the claims of people who are still trying to sell a fake cure for a fake disease.

    You might also want to research the unfortunately named David Pickup. He claims that he sells “authentic change therapy”, yet he admits that he is only getting more and more heterosexual all of the time, but has never in all of the years he has been selling his trash been able to quite make it over the line. I know that he is constantly seeking out blog posts where his name shows up, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he shows up here.

    Physicians, heal thyself? HA!

    There are people that have issues. Like the homosexual hating homosexuals who infest conservative religion like cockroaches in a dark cupboard, they seek to work out their own issues by attacking other people who don’t have them. And it doesn’t hurt that they make some money doing it.

    It’s disgusting.

  • She sets a new record for shallowness. Doesn’t say much about evangelical women that they have made her wealthy. She writes feeling-based drivel.

  • Disagreement is not hate. It’s disagreement.

    People who constantly accuse others of hate are always world-class haters themselves.

  • When the question is: “Do I treat someone like a human being with respect and civility?”

    Disagreement is very much an expression of hate.

    The excuses for malicious attitudes, behavior and trespasses upon others come in pretty thick.

    No, you are not showing love, compassion,or concern for the souls of others by adopting LynnW’s position, you are looking for excuses and rationalizations for prejudice and acting badly to people. It is not love thy neighbor or even hate of sin here. It’s hate of people looking for a socially acceptable excuse.

    “People who constantly accuse others of hate are always world-class haters themselves.”

    Bullsh1t. Comments like yours show one is thin skinned about being called out about prejudice but have zero desire to refute such things.

  • Actually I’m quite familiar with John Paulk, He and his ex-wife used to minister in Portland. Anne still continues in her pursuit of that same ministry, I find no cause to doubt her; and there are others. This whole subject isn’t easy for anyone. I can’t agree that people like Anne are ‘homosexual hating homosexuals.” I hesitate to say this, but could it be that you are bound so tightly by what you have experienced from the Christian community, that you are unwilling to entertain the idea that homosexuals can in some instances by changed by God, or through their own volition? I prefer to think that nothing is impossible. Still, I’m not going to implore someone to change on that basis. Each one of us is accountable to God for his/her choices, whatever they may be. If homosexuality is not a choice, one can still choose to live one’s life according to scripture if they deeply desire to walk in obedience to the New Testament; Christ and the Apostles’ clear instructions to members of the Church that Christ established. Naturally, you are not compelled to do so as you claim no membership in the Church, but I will not retreat from what I believe is compelled from Church members. But I will always endeavor to share that belief with kindness and respect.

  • Edward, i agree with so much of what you said. As always, though we disagree on this issue, what you say with kindness is what a gentleman would say, and you are that.

    However, it is one thing to live your life according to your conscience and your faith. I have no real argument with that, though I think it wrong headed, wrongly motivated, and an abuse and misuse of scripture. But still, I cannot argue with it. Her life, her choice.

    But I absolutely doubt her motivations, and more than disgree with the actions of the anti-ex-Gay industry. And it is an industry, Making a lot of money. But I am sick to death of the lies they tell, the verbal assaults on those who choose to live their lives otherwise, and the support they give to the anti gay part of the anti gay industry. Like John Paulk, and so many others. For years, he blamed all of the bad choices in his life on his being gay, as if one thing had anything to do with the other. No. He just Made a lot of bad choices, and refused to accept responsibility for them, preferring to harm other people in the service of the lies he was telling himself.

    That falseness gets really old, and really fast. I’ve known hundreds if not thousand of gay people in my life. Very few have made the kinds of choices Paulk made– including his choice to lie for years about how he was cured of his so called evil. Except that he wasn’t, and he knew it, and he chose to lie for Jesus and call it moral. Like Alan chambers, John Schmidt, and a host of others.

    If you can find it, I would suggest you read a book called “Prayers for Bobby”, by Mary Griffith. It tells the true story of a young man who killed himself because he could not hope to please either his god or his viciously fundamentalist mother. This is just one body among the trail of bodies that the anti-ex-Gay industry has left in its wake.

    They will have a lot to answer for should they meet Jesus,

  • I think in many ways you are correct, I have no doubt God’s justice will prevail to all in the end. And I quite agree that gay or not, people regularly make poor choices with significant consequence to themselves and others.

  • Just a quick word: Alan Chambers does NOT claim that he is himself gay.

    Ben, you are telling a falsehood when you say that Alan “admitted that he was as gay as he ever was.” Chambers didn’t even self-identify as gay (not even as bisexual) when he marched in the 2016 DC Pride Parade. He told the Washington Blade, “my orientation is my (female) wife.” Imagine that.

    So much has taken place, but the one thing Alan Chambers HASN’T done, is retract his own story of what Jesus did for him. That’s amazing, even today.

  • He’s married to a woman. That doesn’t mean he’s not still gay. And he himself said that no one changes, least of all himself.

  • I think you miss the point! We were earned in the birthday to be ware of false prophets! That is exactly what she is! She doesn’t refer to Jesus and the Cross because that would not support her radical theology!

  • I gather you are homosexual and even if not, false prophets only share their… should I say false beliefs, distorting the word of God. The Bible tells us that homosexual behavior is an abomination! That’s why we try to teach them in love and share God’s word with them!

  • There is no need to cuss at him. You disagree with what he says so you tell him what love and compassion look like, then cuss at him, criticize him, and make a judgement call on his desires???? so you hate him?

  • Tone trolling is duly noted. Out of an entire post, you focused on one word being used and ignored the point entirely.

    Maybe next time don’t be so skittish about saucy language and bother to read something in its entirety. This way you wouldn’t be guessing as to intent.

  • 🙂 That is a fun word.. tone trolling, I have never heard of that, thank yout. Out of curiosity are you military? Ok, those are side bars…. I didn’t miss the point, good redirection away from the questions. you were the only person to have cursed, so I said something, I’m sorry this caused you a negative reaction.

  • Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned
    in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is
    unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error
    which was meet.

    Leaving = Strong’s 863 aphiemi =to desert wrongfully, to disregard, abandon, leave destitute.

    the natural = Strong’s G5446 physikos = produced by nature, inborn,agreeable to nature, governed by (the instincts of) nature

    According to God’s word – no one is born homosexual – we all have the inborn instinct to be heterosexual. So way are people same sex attracted? Because Romans 7 says that sin (a noun) lives within each one of us. The original sin of Adam was disobedience to God’s Word – that according to Scripture lives in each of us.

    Jesus said the Holy Spirit would come to reprove/convict the world of sin John 16:8

    reprove = Strong’s G1651 elegcho = to convict, refute, confute, generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted. by conviction to bring to the light, to expose. to find fault with, correct by word. to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
    by deed.to chasten, to punish.

    By proclaiming the truth of God’s word it will convict people of their sins – it is not Christians hating anyone – but loving them enough to tell them the truth. The Holy Spirit has imbued God’s Word with His power.

  • Spuddie, you say disagreement is very much an expression of hate. If you said that 2+2=5, and I disagreed with you, I am not hating on you, I just think that the truth is actually 4, regardless of what you think. Am I hating? I think not. LynnW seems like a pretty solid person…She never implied anything that you spewed in one of your comments.

  • It’s telling you won’t address what I said in a specific way. Your response is beyond stupid and dishonest.

    The subject here is “do I treat others as human beings”. I say yes. Your disagreement here means you want to treat people badly. Hateful behavior. Just because you are emphatic about acting badly to others, doesn’t mean it is immutable or doesn’t reflect badly on you personally.

    LynnW seems like a spineless dishonest bigot. You do as well given the excuses you give to act maliciously to others.

  • Yep. If you oppose treating people as human beings, you are by definition hateful.

    Your post was nonsense. You came to me. Happy Holidays

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