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Southern Baptists talk sex, LGBT issues at parenting conference

Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, addresses the 2017 ERLC conference. Photo courtesy of Kelly Hunter

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (USA Today) — Last year, an elementary school classmate came out as a transgender boy to Dean Inserra’s fourth-grade son. So, the Southern Baptist pastor turned it into a teachable moment.

Inserra, who leads City Church in Tallahassee, Fla., said he told his son that nothing changes about their friendship, and the loving thing to do was to use the name his classmate preferred. However, at home, the Inserra family would make clear his friend is biologically a girl.

“The two areas that I try to focus on are compassion and clarity,” said Inserra, explaining his parenting approach to a packed conference room on Friday morning (Aug. 25) in Nashville.

He and four other panelists offered advice on how to talk to kids about same-sex attraction and gender identity. The breakout session was a part of the annual conference for the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission.

“Make a strong distinction between making judgments and being judgmental. It’s a part of Christian discipleship to make judgments … being judgmental is an attitude and we can make sure we keep that in check rightfully,” Inserra said. “I just don’t think you can separate this conversation apart from brokenness.”

ERLC on Flickr

Andrew Walker of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission moderates a panel on LGBT issues at the 2017 ERLC conference. Photo courtesy of Kelly Hunter

The Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, the public policy arm of the Nashville-based Southern Baptist Convention, focused its annual event on parenting. It started Thursday at Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center.

Sex and LGBT issues are among a plethora of topics being covered by Southern Baptists and other evangelical Christians. The Southern Baptist Convention’s official positions affirm marriage as between one man and one woman and that gender identity is determined by biological sex.

That’s not a universally agreed-upon biblical view, nor does it align much with larger societal positions. A recent Pew Research report shows that Americans are becoming more accepting of LGBT people and homosexuality.

Because of that, Inserra’s wife, Krissie Inserra, warned her son about how unpopular their beliefs are, but she urged him to show love even when he disagrees with someone’s views.

“I said, ‘You are now going to be seen as hateful by some people unless you are fully embracing this lifestyle,'” Krissie Inserra said in an interview with USA Today Network-Tennessee. “That is so hard to set your child up to know that in some circles they will be seen as a bigot and hateful.”

The Friday morning panel prompted a demonstration from Faith in America, a nonprofit that tries to stop “harmful anti-LGBT religious teachings.” About 40 people stood outside the conference room at Opryland wearing purple shirts that say “Save yOur Kids” and softly praying, singing and trying to talk to conference attendees.

The organization wants Southern Baptists to see their beliefs as harmful to LGBT youth and for all Christian denominations to remove homosexuality from the sin list, said Robert Hoffman, the co-chair and interim executive director of Faith in America.

“I think our strategy at the moment is to just be persistent and to try and engage and use this as an opportunity to make it top of mind in the evangelical culture,” Hoffman said.

The network of churches is the largest Protestant denomination in America, which is one of the reasons the nonprofit came to Nashville this week. The group brought a similar message earlier this summer to the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting in Phoenix.

At the time, Russell Moore, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, told the Baptist Press that Southern Baptists believe every person is made in the image of God, but they cannot ignore Jesus’ teachings.

One thing was made clear in Nashville this week — children will eventually hear about sex and sexuality issues. So, many of the panelists from Friday morning’s session as well as Thursday evening’s discussion on talking to kids about sex in general urged parents to be the ones to start the awkward conversations.

They encouraged parents to integrate it into everyday discussions early on, answering children’s natural curiosity with age-appropriate truth, pointing it out in movies and addressing it when opportunities arise.

Jeremy and Tori Young, of Murfreesboro, have made an effort to be that reliable and realistic source since for their three children.

“For us, we believe that we have the most real perspective of what sex is and we want to be able to communicate not only the dangers of it being misused but also the beauty of it being used in the right way,” Jeremy Young said.

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Holly Meyer

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  • I think that Mr & Mrs Inserra are just setting their kids up to fully understand the hypocrisy of their stance as the kids continue to grow up and mature. “Be kind and loving to your friend’s face and ugly and hateful behind his back. Pretend with him that he’s a boy when you’re with him, but here at home, we know that she’s really a girl! Oh, and let’s just keep this our little family secret. We don’t want others to know about our two-faced hypocrisy.”

    How long can you ask a child to maintain that cognitive dissonance before they see it all for what it truly is?

  • 3 years passed and “Southern Baptists talk sex, LGBT issues at parenting conference” – but not Evangelical Porn & Infidelity. 3 years, that is, after the following news spread throughout their households and congregations.

    According to Charisma News, “Shocker: Study Shows Most Christian Men Are Into Porn”, October 7, 2014:

    “A new national survey of Christian men reveals shocking statistics pertaining to high rates of pornography use and addiction, plus rampant sexual infidelity among married Christian men. The 2014 survey was commissioned by a nonprofit organization called Proven Men Ministries and conducted by Barna Group among a nationally representative sample of 388 self-identified Christian adult men. The statistics for Christian men between 18 and 30 years old are particularly striking … (and) for middle-aged Christian men (ages 31 to 49) … no less disturbing … Even married Christian men are falling prey to pornography and extramarital sexual affairs at alarming rates … These alarming statistics are not limited to those who nominally consider themselves Christian. Those who identify themselves as born-again Christians have similar struggles with pornography and affairs”!

  • What’ll happen when at the same time “they see” Evangelicals’ addiction to porn and adultery (per Charisma News gist above)?

  • So these nice Christians think that it is their duty to judge, but it’s bad to be judgmental. The Jesus of “judge not” versus the Jesus of “judge righteously” when “there in no one righteous, no, not one.”

    It’s a distinction without a difference. The use of the term “lifestyle”, the insistence that biology is the sole determinant, despite the knowledge of physiological sexual ambiguity existing — read about intersex and transgender Wikipedia, wouldya, if real books are too difficult– just says to me that despite those nice Christian smiles, the underlying attitudes still exist.

    I am grateful– and I mean this sincerely– that evangelicals are attempting to make some small steps forward. But they would be better served if they actually started to talk to gay and trans people, and educate themselves according to scientific standards rather than biblical ones.

  • Life is complex, and such issues require discretion and nuance on the part of parents, at the same time I find this strategy reasonable for those Christian parents who will not surrender their understanding of what the bible teaches about human sexuality when raising their children. Difficult questions and conversations will arise, but as long as parents remain thoughtfully and prayerfully engaged with their children a pathway and process will be developed as children advance in age and maturity. In the end they are likely to form their own views, and if present trends continue the potential for a stark departure from their parent’s views is not unlikely. But as is rightly pointed out, there are a variety of questions about sexual practice that go beyond what has been presented in this article. Beyond that there are a host of moral questions having nothing to do with sexual questions that parents need to emphasize as well. I can’t speak to the strategies of non-Christian parents, as for Christian parents, there best strategy is to look to God’s Word, and to seek His face, being mindful of the fact that in general exercise if one trains up their child in the way he/she should go, when they are old they will not depart from it.

  • I do not think one can truly offer love and kindness without seeing and accepting people for who they are. I cannot say I am not a racist and then claim not to see someone’s color. I see someone is black and love and accept their blackness, including cultural differences and differences in perspectives. I appreciate the differences as a strength for society, rather than a problem that needs to be solved.

    LGBT are a fact of society. Millions and millions of people who are peaceful and generally kind hearted. They are not hard to like and even love. My brother is gay. We are close in age and raised exactly the same. I love him. I love his husband and children. I actually envy the closeness he has with his family. He is my big brother and I hope to have a family like he has one day. I hope the church will begin to show love completely and without conditions. Only then will the lessons of Jesus be truly reflective within our religion.

  • Well HpO, that’s the strange thing about “compassion & clarity” (or “grace & truth”, John 1:14) :

    They work well regardless of the issue at hand.

  • So let’s ask: What, specifically, do you want to see the Southern Baptists do regarding this problem?

    And what is your own personal response to this issue? What will you say or do if somebody confides this situation to you?

  • Why this perverse interest in defining everyone by their genitals? No discussion of a person’s talent, kindness, abilities and love matter. Very unhealthy worldview.

  • 1 word. Economize. Like Jesus said. Keep the household of God in order 1st. Do cultural warfare stuff outside after that 1st thing is mission accomplished. Now it’s opposite. Evangelicals turning into porn addicts and adulterers while antagonizing LGTBQ. That’s not economizing allocation of Jesus’ gifts of Spirit of God. But wasting God’s holy commodities.

    Now your turn. Let’s hear you suggest.

  • “John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth” – as the rationale for these words? “‘The two areas that I try to focus on are compassion and clarity,’ said Inserra”?! This Inserra character was focussing on Christ Jesus’ “glory” per that gospel truth?!

    WHAT?! That makes 0 sense.

  • The problem is you seeing it as a problem, that rather than excepting the millions of transgender folks who bear testimony of their true selves, you refuse to accept them. You insisting that everyone has to be who you say that they have to be.

    What I would see the SBC do is teach its pastors and its members to accept sexual and gender minorities as who they are, part of the glorious diversity of creation as God made them to be, in their own uniqueness.

  • Didn’t tell you. For 2 years I had “started to talk to gay” group in regular bible studies. Theirs. Subject never brought up. We just discussed scriptures. Like decent regular folks. (Would love to discuss their side of the story on the subject, if they felt led. Didn’t happen. Lesson learned for me: in all bible studies with Evangelicals not once any felt led to discuss their heterosexuality! Weird. Me, I mean, for assuming otherwise in a gay Christian bible study.)

  • Hmm, that’s an interesting reply from you. Thanks.
    As individual Christians, we all have to “economize” in our own way. Can’t focus on every issue all the time.

    But the church is *collectively* called to be “salt and light” on a whole bunch of needs & issues, all happening now.

    So while porn IS a big problem that needs attention (and SBC leaders like Mohler have done so), I also know (because of what I’ve seen), that there’s a huge need for gigs that offer good tips like Christian “compassion & clarity”, for parents of LGBT kids.

    Parents are desperate for help NOW. It ain’t something that can wait. So this badly-needed SBC conference doesn’t pose any delay or distraction from a badly-needed “C-and-C” response to porn. We need both.

  • Well, that’s food for thought, and I myself am a real believer in learning to just listen to people, but something’s still missing here.

    What was the main topic of study in this group? Did the topics of homosexual behavior, gay marriage, or other LGBT issues come up for Scriptural examination at all?

  • ” I find this strategy reasonable for those Christian parents who will not surrender their understanding of what the bible teaches about human sexuality when raising their children.”
    It seems to me this is saying, “In other words, keep on doing what you want to do regardless of facts.”
    “Their understanding of what the bible teaches” is not rational and does not promote the common good; rather, it doubles down on hatred and condescension.
    You can believe The Deity is A Loving God. And you can believe any part of the antigay hatred being promoted by the right wing. But you cannot believe both, because with the first part, A Loving God, the special singling out of our LGBT Brothers and Sisters is never justified.

  • That’s not going to happen for awhile, David. In fact, you’re effectively claiming here that **God** makes people gay (LGBT) and that is just plain falsehood, by even a minimal reading of the Bible.

    (A lotta good young folks have been damaged severely by that one lie.)

    So realistically, you’re going to see continued charitable, empathetic, but firm refusals to subscribe to the falsehoods of the LGBT activists — all four letters — on the part of the SBC. They’re just not gonna ditch their Bibles anytime soon.

  • We know what you believe and you know that isn’t what we believe. I believe that you perpetuate a hateful and damaging lie about LGBTQ folks. You believe that we perpetuate a lie about ourselves and our relation to God.

    I don’t think that any of us will be instrumental in bringing you to the truth about LGBTQ folks any time soon. I know that you won’t rip out of my heart my sure testimony of who I am and my relationship to God.

    Fortunately, the number of folks in the US who subscribe to your belief about LGBTQ folks is dwindling. And we know that the majority of folks in the US are coming to believe what I believe about LGBTQ folks.

    I guess that we are basically waiting for the die hards in your generation to shuffle off this mortal coil.

  • I have other things to do tonight. I was just taking a break.
    The very, very short and unnuanced answer is yes, of course, 100%. But there are some assumptions hidden deeply that must be displayed. It all depends on what you mean by love, and by loving god, on one independent axis, and on another, by how you define anti-gay and hatred.
    It’s very important to remember that not all bigotry is hate. So much of it is the always present, unwarranted faith in a totally imaginary superiority.
    I don’t have time for a lengthy exposition, but that’s where I would start.

  • “SBC leaders like Mohler have done so” since the October 2014 news release? So not true. I wouldn’t even call a sermon three years later entitled, “Pursue God, Not Pornography”, delivered during a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Chapel Service in February 21, 2017, a sign of good faith on his part, to do what it takes to purge the Porn-and-Adultery Desolation of Bible Churches. Half of the students probably were sleeping anyway through the sermon after a night of … what’s the word I’m looking for. So, when you asserted, “We need both”, knowing that only 1 of the 2 – not both – “ain’t something that can wait”, don’t you think you’re a bit, y’know … what’s the other word I’m looking for.

  • Topics formatted as per this formalized lectionary-styled curriculum. Sermons based on it as well. Catholics have been doing that for their liturgies. Mainstream Protestant churches have their version too now. So, no, they’re not going to spend an entire year discussing and sermonizing scriptures to justify their LGTBQ convictions; why would they? Not even Evangelicals gear up their cell groups, Sunday Schools and sermons for justifying their heterosexuality. That’s silly and stupid. Anyway, if you’re interested in that sort of thing, I’ll bet they’ll debunk you more than you they. Because, have you studied their scholarship materials based on scriptures? Forget about it. They’re too good. That’s how good LGTBQ theologies are these days. Me? Not interested. The key for me is for everybody – homo- and hetero-sexual Christians – revisiting Scriptures on Fornication and Marriage, from scratch. The gospel truth’s in there. But noone’s talking about it so as to bring about a conflict-resolution between the two camps. For sure 1’s going to lose, but my pearls on that both will lose to the power of the gospel demonstrated by Scriptures on Fornication and Marriage. Don’t ask me what they are; I’m still in a thinking-aloud mode, is all.

  • ” (A lotta good young folks have been damaged severely by that one lie.) — …**God** makes people gay (LGBT)… ”

    But couldn’t it be said? —
    Man’s ways are of the Lord, so how can we understand not only our own ways but the ways of others?………Proverbs 20:24

    Would that be considered a lie?

  • As always Ben, I strive to navigate carefully between what I devoutly believe to be true with respect to the bible, while recognizing a responsibility to be courteous and thoughtful in my responses to those who hold different views. I’m not always successful, but I’m encouraged when those with whom I differ continue to maintain a reasonably amicable window for continued conversation…because I realize people are deeply and passionately invested in their own convictions and beliefs.

  • Yes HpO, I really AM “interested on that sort of thing.” I’ve even visited a gay MCC church, just to listen to their songs, and listen to the gay pastor preach his sermon.

    (They were friendly enough, but a few key biblical items were missing from both the songs and sermon.)

    However, before visiting, I had completed an extensive Scripture study, and was aware of how the “gay theology” talking points are fully — as in fully — defeated by the Scriptures.

    That’s important. It’s the gay theology, (the belief system behind all the gay politics), that’s really killing the souls of young people and their families.

    So let’s revisit ALL the Scriptures, (and revisit prayer & fasting & fellowship with other Christians too). People are hurting, enslaved, and got “situations” NOW, so it’s time to act.

  • Take a look at the top photograph again. There’s a banner back there. It says “Christ-centered Parenting in a Complex World.” That, is what the conference was about. A key point of that theme is Compassion & Clarity. Both at the same time, NOT one without the other.

    The items you said — a person’s talent, kindness, abilities, or love — a compassion discussion may include any of those items. Say a young person’s good qualities, tell ’em God loves them, gave them a lot of stuff, and He’s got big plans and adventures. Tell them you flat-out love them.

    But also do the clarity. Tell the Bible truth on their situations. If LGBT issues are involved, then tell the Bible truth on whatever letter (L, G, B, T) is the problem. Say that Jesus offers 1 Cor. 6:9-11 and 1 Cor.10:13 for everybody. Tell ’em Nothing Is Too Hard For God (Jer. 32:27), and to never give up on Him. Tell ’em God gives real Healing and Help.
    Offer some Christian change-oriented resources. Give both Compassion & Clarity.

  • Prov. 20:24 clearly does not say that God made anybody gay or LGBT.

    Nor does Prov. 20:24 say that man’s SINS “are of the Lord.” Otherwise people would be using this text to negate the biblical prohibitions against adultery, bestiality, lying, greed, etc. Which would lead to people saying:

    “My adulterous ways are of the Lord, says Prov. 20:24. Therefore GOD made me an adulterer. So regardless of what the rest of the Bible says, my adultery is NOT a sin. My behavior is all kewl, according to Prov. 20:24.”

  • I think Prov. 20:24 should be applied in a general sense without considering whether something is right or wrong or as sin or not.

    If I didn’t think of something about myself as bad or as sin, then I would be encouraged by a verse like that, thinking that I was being and doing the best for myself. It would help eliminate doubt about my ways in the world. It would help explain myself to myself. I certainly couldn’t believe that ‘good young folks have been damaged severely’ by believing such things.

    The question is again on the table then — is my gay nature good or bad or sin or not. Sexual orientation is no simple matter to deal with. We must consider our satisfaction, or lack of, with this nature. Most decide in a positive way and live happily ever after.

    Here’s another verse that’s similar to Prov. 20:24 —
    …Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?……………Romans 9:20

  • You’ve hit upon a truth here. We gay people are often accused of being obsessed with our sexuality. It’s entirely projection on the part of the people who are actually obsessed with our sexuality.

    One of those most interesting things to me in the many years I’ve been on these boards is the willingness of some people to go into graphic detail about my sex life. It’s all they can talk about.. I don’t discuss my sex life in public, but that’s the first place they go.

  • Actually, Dr. Mohler has offered several YEARS of anti-porn messages, like on July 3, 2017, “How Can Pastors and Churches Fight The Pornography Epidemic.”
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=mohler+how+can+pastors+and+churches+fight&view=detail&mid=FA24D37EEAEAB251A37DFA24D37EEAEAB251A37D&FORM=VIRE

    You can find his past articles here.
    http://www.albertmohler.com/search/?q=pornography

    And Dr. Denny Burk’s great Feb. 21, 2017 message, “Pursue God, Not Porn.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y8tMOkwxpc
    And in fact, the entire SBC has agreed on the following:
    http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/2257/on-pornography-and-sexual-purity

    Now all those efforts may be worth nothing in your estimation, but it’s looking pretty admirable to many folks, me included.

  • No dear. It’s antigay theology, and the bigotry that hides behind “sincere religious belief”, that has been harming gay people, gay kids, and our families for centuries.

    But of course you, as a card carrying member of the party of personal responsibility, are quick to declare that it is really someone else’s fault.

    And not yours.

  • Grace and truth, HpO. Compassion and clarity. Combo platter.

    If you’re really focusing on Jesus’ glory, you won’t leave out any of these qualities.

  • Needless to say, we won’t ever agree on this. And no middle ground.
    We do agree that harm IS taking place, for we’ve both seen it in person.

    But the direction the harm is coming from, and how to respound, we can’t agree on it, unless one side effectively surrenders their Final Authority, (object of worship), to the other side’s Final Authority (object of worship).

    Can’t serve “God” and “Gay” at the same time. Can’t get what’cha really need way-down inside, from one of them. One of these choices, is a lying dog-excrement devil that hurts and cripples the hearts of young and old alike. The other is the Healer and Cleanser of all hurts and infirmities, whose overwhelming love will “make a way outta no way” for anybody.

    Ben, who ya really gonna choose?

  • If it was needless to say, You shouldn’t have said it. But you’d never pass up the opportunity.

    It’s very clear to anyone with a brain and a heart that the lying dog-excrement devil that hurts and cripples the hearts of young and old alike is antigay hatred and bigotry. Being gay has never hurt anyone.

    No one is worshipping gay. That’s your story. Plenty of Christians disagree with you about god and gay. You set yourself up as the arbiter of god and gay, the arbiter of god’s relationship with anyone else on the planet. Which would make you one of those whited sepulchre guys, worshipping your opinions and your book rather has the god you claim to worship.

  • I hear you, brother, I hear you. I’m just saying prooftexting each other (gays are doing that too now) is a dead end. Have you found the key to a decent dialogue time with LGTBQ Christians? Me, like I said, I think it’s Fornication & Marriage, which put hetero- and homo-sexual Christians onto an even field. I don’t know. Not altogether, like I said.

    OK, case closed for now. Nice iron-sharpening-iron with you. Thanks for your patience.

  • God is love, gracious, and merciful. He is the waiting Fatherly of the prodigal. He is the Good Shepherd carrying the lost sheep to safety. The Jesus Prayer “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner,” is repeated through out the Gospels in one form or another. Comforting words and images that Christians identify with. Truth – profound and food for the soul.
    But there is another truth that sometimes gets shoved to the side – Col. 3:5 Therefore put to death the parts of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the sons of disobedience. 7 You also once walked in these, when you lived in them.
    see also: Rom 1:18; Eph 5:6

    Jesus said in John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

    This is a sobering truth: God’s wrath is visited upon those who reject Christ and reject obedience to Him. SBC parents have the responsibility before God to raise up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord regardless of the chattering naysayers.

  • a 9? 10? year old child….and the preacher want’s to talk about “brokenness”

    Most trans people know their divergent gender identity by 5 or 6 years old – kids from hurting homes and loving homes, skeptic homes and Christian homes, homes around the world and here in America, homes in the 21st century and every one that came before – there is no one narrative that can POSSIBLY account for the incredible variety of backgrounds EXCEPT biology.

    Here we are again, repeating history – the denomination that only exists at all because it chose human hateful tradition over the revelation of God can’t resist the temptation of repeating that error over and over and over.

    Objective fact: NOTHING in Scripture, studied in an exegetically sound manner, addresses being trans or transitioning in any negative way. The entire structure of this SBC doctrine is based on eisegetical inference and assumption which shoehorns a human tradition into an interpretation of unrelated passages.

    To make this mistake once is regrettable, to make it repeatedly is disgraceful on every level.

  • it is NOT “Christ centered” to advance a doctrine that has no support whatsoever in Scripture, but rather reflects a cultural tradition shoehorned into the Bible. This is the way of the Pharisee, not Christ.

    It is NOT “Christ centered” to drive seeking, hurting, rejected people – including quite often ones own child – AWAY from the arms of Christ because your false doctrine stands between what they know to be true of themselves and the church’s legalistic adherence to the golden calf of tradition.

    It is NOT “Christ centered” to tell a trans person for DECADES that “nothing is too hard for God to fix” when God has no interest in fixing it, it is not Christ centered to say you just need to pray harder or have more faith or deal with it while that person goes through their whole life – ever how much of it they can endure before they give up and seek death – based on a false doctrine. You would not say these things to one born blind or deaf, but you happily commit spiritual abuse and place yourself between trans people and the arms of God because any subject involving a penis makes you a little bit nutty.

    Don’t come at me with “change oriented” – I prayed every conceivable prayer, often in bitter tears, for over 30 years for this to change; I’ve studied and prayed more on this one subject that most 90 year old lifelong Christians have studied and prayed about all subjects combined; I have “claimed in faith” and I have repented in ashes; I spend my whole life serving the church until I realized how I’d been betrayed and almost 20 of that preaching the same hateful traditions I was being abused by.

    NO.

    Your FIRST job is to demonstrate from Scripture, rightly divided, that God forbids being trans or transitioning before you get to say ANYTHING to trans people about “Christ centered” reactions.

    And when you get done with that, then feel free to explain how it is that Christians have room for mutual respect when it comes to the doctrine of HOW SOMEONE GETS SAVED but you tolerate NO disagreement concerning God’s will for the penis.

  • The “Nashville Statement”? Why did they use the city of Nashville in the name of their Statement? The city of Nashville had nothing to do with it, and in fact the city is supportive of LGBT rights. Hopefully the city leaders demand that Nashville’s name be removed from the bigoted Statement. Truth in advertising would more accurately call it the “SBC Statement”. Ironically they met at a hotel/convention center that is supportive of LGBT equality and employment.

  • The issue is that you falsely define what is going on. It isn’t God or Gay any more than it is God or Heterosexual. You serve God and you happen to be heterosexual. I serve God and I happen to be homosexual. Or, as I like to say, if we use our sexuality in a Godly manner, then we are holysexuals.

  • Well the LGBT terrorists should be imprisoned and heavily fined for violating the free speech and freedom of religion Constitutionally protected rights.

  • Obviously you know little to nothing about scripture except what homosexuals have twisted.

    1 Cor 6:9-11 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor wantons, nor buggerers,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified, in the Name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Gal 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
    19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    1 Timothy 1:8-11
    8 And we know, that the Law is good, if a man use it lawfully.
    9 Knowing this, that the Law is not given unto a righteous man, but unto the lawless and disobedient, to the ungodly, and to sinners, to the unholy, and to the profane, to murderers of fathers and mothers, to manslayers,
    10 To buggerers , to menstealers, to liars, to the perjured, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to wholesome doctrine,
    11 Which is according to the glorious Gospel of the blessed God, which is committed unto me.

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
    10 And in all deceivableness of unrighteousness, among them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And therefore God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe lies,
    12 That all they might be damned which believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Romans 1 21-32
    21 Because that when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was full of darkness.
    22 When they professed themselves to be wise, they became fools.
    23 For they turned the glory of the incorruptible God to the similitude of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and four footed beasts, and of creeping things.
    24 Wherefore also God gave them up to their hearts lusts, unto uncleanness, to defile their own bodies between themselves:
    25 Which turned the truth of God unto a lie, and worshipped and served the creature, forsaking the Creator which is blessed forever, Amen.
    26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    Colossians 3:5
    Mortify therefore your members which are on the earth, fornication, uncleanness, the inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness which is idolatry.

    1 Samuel 15: 1 Samuel
    23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and transgression is wickedness and idolatry. Because thou hast cast away the word of the Lord, therefore he hath cast away thee from being king.

  • Genesis 2: 23 – 25
    23 Then the man said, This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of the man.
    24 Therefore shall man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh.
    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and they were not ashamed.

    Matthew 19:4-5
    4. And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning, made them male and female,
    5.And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

    Mark 10:6-7
    6. But at the beginning of the creation God made them male and female:
    7.For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

    Ephesians 5:31
    For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

    1 Corinthians 11:11
    Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

    Leviticus 21:13
    And he shall take a wife in her virginity.

    Proverbs 18:22
    Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

    Proverbs 19:14
    House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD.

    1 Cor 7:4-7
    1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me, It were good for a man not to touch a woman.
    2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
    3 Let the husband give unto the wife due benevolence, and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
    4 The wife hath not the power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not the power of his own body, but the wife.

    1 Corinthians 7:10
    And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

    1 Corinthians 7:14
    For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

    1 Corinthians 7:33
    But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

    Ephesians 5:23
    For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

    Ephesians 5:33
    Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

    1 Timothy 3:2
    A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

    1 Timothy 3:12
    Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

    Titus 1:6
    If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

    1 Peter 3:7
    Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

  • I’m gonna number those 1-18 for ease of response:

    1. assuming the creationist theology, this refers to the perfect pre-fall creation. According to your own theological system, neither human physicality or behavior now is measured by what took place before the fall. Thus, it doesn’t apply.
    2. your quote refers to marriage, and has no bearing on trans people – however in verse 12 following your quote, Christ specifically describes people who are not conformed to the sex and gender roles and biology that you are defending – those born that way, those made that way after birth as well – and specifically says to you: “accept them”
    3. marriage again, not relevant. But just to disabuse you of the citation, in the same way that it is not a sin to remain single (i.e. an exception to the general principle that God designed the sexes to be paired) it is not a sin to be some other sort of exception.
    4. see above
    5. see above – do you tell single people (by choice)they are sinning?

    6.-11. Ditto
    12. This passage is one in which Paul is literally advocating FOR singleness.
    13.-18. Sir, you seem to be wildly off topic. I haven’t read your other reply yet but you seem to be not very good at this.

  • “scripture except what homosexuals have twisted.”

    Homosexuality is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
    Numbered again:
    1. Being trans is not mentioned in this passage, or even implied.
    2. Ditto.
    3. Ditto.
    4. The “strong delusion” might be (likely is) the ongoing insistence on elevating man-made tradition to the status of God’s word, as did the Pharisees. that’s the interesting thing about the Bible, you can read into it whatever affirms what you want to think in the first place. For example, the Catholics hold a different doctrine about salvation than the Baptists, and both are different than the Church of Christ, and so forth – each of them can read that passage and easily assume that those who have a differing doctrine of salvation are suffering under a strong delusion.
    Or, for a more pertinent example Segregationists 60 years ago would very quickly tell you that “race mixers” were suffering under a strong delusion. Citing a verse that you can manipulate to reaffirm in your mind that you are right does nothing to convince anyone who disagrees, no matter the context.
    5. says nothing at all regarding trans people.
    6. Ditto.
    7. Ditto.

    I was right – you really are NOT very good at this.

  • God does not make people gay – or straight or bi- God does not make people trans – or cis or intersex.

    NATURE does.

    Even in the most conservative reading of the Bible, taken as literally as possible, God designed the natural order, man sinned and sin corrupted the natural orders, henceforth bad things happen (up to and including death, but for our purposes also including disorders of pre-natal development.
    To invoke “God made you” is both bad science and bad theology on it’s face…that phrase invokes a cultural tradition of though, not anything objective.

    Which is the signature failing of the SBC, as well as the church at large – confusing a human tradition with “God said”…the SBC only EXISTS because of that error, and the continued to double down on that error for their first century and a half.

    For the record, speaking as a member of the target group – and as a formerly lifelong member of the SBC and a preacher for almost 20 years – the SBC’s interaction with LGB/T persons is not REMOTELY compassionate or empathetic. One can only wonder if lying to yourselves is a violation of the commandment about false witness.

  • but what they end up doing is raising them in the nurture and admonition of human tradition – as did their segregationist grandfathers.

  • “Christian parents who will not surrender their understanding of what the
    bible teaches about human sexuality when raising their children.”

    let’s get our time ray and take that comment back in time 70 years:

    “Christian parents who will not surrender their understanding of what the
    bible teaches about race relations when raising their children.”

    how does it read to you now? Do you deny that millions of Traditionalist Christians – particularly Southern Baptists – would have wholeheartedly affirmed that latter comment in 1947?
    Did they turn out to be right – or wrong – in what they believed God said on that point?

    “Oh” but you’ll say “this isn’t like race” – doesn’t have to be, that’s totally beside the point.

    The point is that in that moment (and for years to follow) these people were firmly committed to what they had been taught to be “God said” when in fact MEN had put their own words into the mouth of God by way of religious tradition.

    And not for the first time. Church history is basically an unbroken string of men repeating that error over and over and over again. I trust you don’t need me to cite a dozen or so other examples of things that “every Christian knows” at some point in or 2,000 year history that turned out to be flat wrong. At least, in the opinion of Christians today.

    Now here’s my question for you: How do they KNOW that the SBC is not repeating the EXACT same error that the church has constantly repeated over the centuries – that THIS time it’s different?

  • 1. assuming the creationist theology, this refers to the perfect
    pre-fall creation. According to your own theological system, neither
    human physicality or behavior now is measured by what took place before
    the fall. Thus, it doesn’t apply.

    Yes you assume there was a pre-creation and nothing in the bible assumes that foolishness.

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    1 Cor 6:9-11 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor wantons, nor buggerers,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified, in the Name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Gal 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
    19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    1 Timothy 1:8-11
    8 And we know, that the Law is good, if a man use it lawfully.
    9 Knowing this, that the Law is not given unto a righteous man, but unto the lawless and disobedient, to the ungodly, and to sinners, to the unholy, and to the profane, to murderers of fathers and mothers, to manslayers,
    10 To buggerers , to menstealers, to liars, to the perjured, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to wholesome doctrine,
    11 Which is according to the glorious Gospel of the blessed God, which is committed unto me.

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
    10 And in all deceivableness of unrighteousness, among them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And therefore God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe lies,
    12 That all they might be damned which believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    2. your quote refers to marriage,
    and has no bearing on trans people – however in verse 12 following your
    quote, Christ specifically describes people who are not conformed to the
    sex and gender roles and biology that you are defending – those born
    that way, those made that way after birth as well – and specifically
    says to you: “accept them”

    The bible is very specific on condemning all types of homosexuality.

    3. marriage again, not relevant. But just
    to disabuse you of the citation, in the same way that it is not a sin to
    remain single (i.e. an exception to the general principle that God
    designed the sexes to be paired) it is not a sin to be some other sort
    of exception.

    I never sais it was sin to remain single but then again it is you that assumes to much.

    4. see above

    Nonsensical response

    5. see above – do you tell single people (by choice)they are sinning?

    Again that is something I never said and yes the bible absolutely supports being single.

    6.-11. Ditto

    Another nonsensical response.

    12. This passage is one in which Paul is literally advocating FOR singleness.

    AND?

    13.-18. Sir, you seem to be wildly off topic. I haven’t read your other reply yet but you seem to be not very good at this.

    You seem to read things that just weren’t said. Try rereading my post without reading things that just aren’t there.

    1 Timothy 2:12
    I permit not a woman to teach, neither to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the Churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they ought to be subject, as also the Law saith.
    35 And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the Church.

    1 Corinthians 11:3
    But I will that ye know, that Christ is the head of every man: and the man is the woman’s head: and God is Christ’s head.

    1 Corinthians 11:7
    For a man ought not to cover his head: forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

  • You know little to nothing about scripture and I won’t waste any more time rebuking you on that lack of knowledge. You also need to stop ranting about things that just weren’t said.

  • I have two question for you…
    1.) Where do you get the authority to reinterpret scripture?

    2.) Where do you get the authority to tell someone that what the post is irrelevant?

  • 1. No reinterpretation has taken place, except of course for the hundreds of varieties of Christianity that all cite the same single book as supporting their conflicting views.

    2. I didn’t say you couldn’t make an irrelevant post, so no authority is invoked. Noting that it is irrelevant is simply a matter of observation. If you’d have posted a meatloaf recipe it would not have taken any “authority” to point out it was irrelevant to the ongoing discussion.

  • your very first sentence:
    “Yes you assume there was a pre-creation and nothing in the bible assumes that foolishness.”

    Not a single thing in my comment refers to a “pre-creation” – reading comprehension is your friend, if it fails you on a comment thread it will certainly fail you when you study your Bible. If you can’t get the first comment right, the rest of your response is likely too bizarre to bother with replying to. But we’ll see.

  • You make all the same arguments and claims unbelievers make when their challenged on their unfounded thoughts about God’s sword. So as with them you’re arguments are moot.

    Romans 13:13
    So that we walk honestly, as in the day: not in gluttony, and drunkenness, neither in chambering and wantonness, nor in strife and envying.

  • your lack of rebuttal is noted and logged. Not at all unexpected since none exists but still, good to have you on the record.

  • by your definition, someone who does not agree entirely with your bigotry is by definition an “unbeliever” who “knows nothing” because otherwise you’d have to confront the possibility that you may have been wrong about something – and obviously THAT can’t be the case, right?

  • The only ones that call Christians bigots are those like you that feign being Christians to mock Christians that stand on God’s word alone.

  • I don’t remember stating that those that disagree with me aren’t
    Christians but I do let those that mock God’s word prove what they
    are….and here you are doing just that.

  • I wrote you probably 1500, maybe 2000 words – this is not what is known as “at a loss for a reply”

    I refer to some people as a bigot because that attitude is denoted in their own comments. Not everyone I disagree with reveals bigotry in their words and thus not everyone is refereed to by the term.

  • “rightly dividing the word of God” by using only sound exegetical techniques, taught in the most well respected conservative Bible colleges – is not “mocking” Scripture.

    I do however reserve the right to mock those like yourself who employ rank eisegesis in order to put their own words into the mouth of God.

  • your argument is the Gospel of Bob wearing the mask of “God’s Word” because you can’t conceive of a God who doesn’t agree with you.

  • Your arrogance is only surpassed by your ignorance when you resort to calling people bigots because YOU disagree with something that pricked you conscience.

  • Just because a college labels itself “Baptist” doesn’t mean it’s respected or teaches “rightly dividing the word of God” your arrogance is proof of that. I taken note of many “Baptist” churches and colleges are of the world rather than “rightly dividing the word of God” So mock away and show me right about your arrogance. Remember YOU picked this battle and lost it long ago because of being puffed up in pride. BTW the bible speaks about the great deception and as far as that goes and you corrupting God’s word you are indeed part of that deception attempting to justify the corruption of the temple of the Lord through homosexuality.

  • see that was the response I was expecting. If you had never spoken with me and were just simply reading up on the reputations of various schools for turning out rock solid conservative traditional Christians, you’d find very few more well regarded than the one I attended. It’s a pastor making machine – and pastors you’d approve of.

    And save one course, I got 95+ scores in every Bible/preaching related course.

    I certainly learned enough to recognize blatant eisegesis when i see it. But see, you HAVE to assume the worst about the school because your arrogance will not allow you to consider any reality that might imply you’ve been wrong about anything. And that, sir, is your “great deception”- the modern day Pharisees who claim the name of Christ but bow the knee to the golden calf of worldly political power at all costs. One need look no further than the VVS gleefully hosting Steve Bannon and Seb Gorka (to say nothing of Trump) to find your great deception.

  • I’ll address your questions when you answer my question “Were you born a genetic male” and we’ll go from there Satan knows the bible like the back of his hand.

  • the fact that I’ve made all these many points without mentioning it and you STILL think I’m talking about homosexuality reveals all anyone needs to know about your capacity for objective reasoning.

  • But you show yourself as a woman but in reality you were born genetically a man…..that objective reasoning?

  • indeed it is. For those who’s minds can consider science more complex than what they taught you in middle school.

  • don’t know. Most likely neither do you. I’ve never been kerotyped, very few have and likely you are not one of them.

  • I believe little a transsexual says one this subject knowing you can’t be subjective. I know without being tested what a male and female are and the only ones that question their gender are already suffering from sexual dysphoria. .

  • I went through high school before sexual dysphoria was supported by progressives that still can’t tell the difference between males and females.

  • Paul may have advocated for singleness, but he was a loyal servant to God, not his own ‘fleshly’ desires…We were all made in His image for His purpose…to Worship Him alone…but the flesh is weak, and the ‘fall of man’ proved that…so God gave us marriage between man and woman, and trials and tribulations for our natural life, and if we turned to Him, through His actions of becoming ‘flesh’, and believing and accepting His Cross-Offering of Himself-God Incarnate(Jesus Christ), then we are promised a better life after death…but if we live for the world(satan), then that is the eternal torment we will receive.
    You are what you are, but it’s how you use it that may be your downfall.
    In other words, it is a ‘choice’ to do what we do when acting on sex, whether homo-or-hetero…un-natural affections, fornication, adultry, worship, lying, cheating, etc, etc…the flesh is weak through satan…
    If one is truly ‘born’ gay, then his actions are of utter importance in how he chooses to act…if he truly loves God, and not man, he will serve only God, and keep from his sin…same for a heterosexual…if they choose, they will serve God, and keep away from fornication…or adultry if married…
    But the the big difference is the hetero man does have God’s blessing if they want to marry, and keep the marriage bed undefiled. The homosexuals do not have that blessing, according to Scripture…and if the Scriptures are changed in any way, it is false…as God has never, nor will He ever change His mind…

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