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Rhode Island Council of Churches director takes leave for gender transition

In this June 29, 2017, photo, the Rev. Donald Anderson gives an opening prayer for a service in Providence, R.I. The Rhode Island State Council of Churches says Anderson, its executive minister, shared with the board she is transgender and is transitioning. The organization granted Anderson a three-month sabbatical and notes she'll change her name from Donald to Donnie. (Kris Craig/Providence Journal via AP)

(RNS) — The Rev. Donald Anderson, 70, executive minister of the Rhode Island State Council of Churches, will take a three-month leave beginning June 1 to complete the transition to becoming a woman.

“Right now, at this point, this is still a very personal thing,” Anderson told Religion News Service by phone Tuesday (May 15). “We’re working this through as a family. When the fall comes, I’ll be happy to talk to people in depth.”

Anderson has been executive minister, the day-to-day head of the state council, for 11 years. She has been noted for her political positions, including opposing numerous actions of the Trump administration.

During the sabbatical, Anderson will also change her name from Don to Donnie, according to a statement by RISCC governing board president Chontell Washington, a United Church of Christ pastor.

While a membership roster for the council wasn’t available, a listing of the group’s board shows a majority of its seats are held by clergy from groups noted for a progressive stance on many issues, including the Unitarian-Universalist Association, the American Baptist Church and the Episcopal Church. Anderson is an American Baptist.

“The council is appreciative of Dr. Anderson’s ministry and totally supportive of her transition,” Washington wrote. “We look forward to welcoming the Rev. Dr. Donnie Anderson back from her sabbatical in September.”

Speaking with RNS, Anderson affirmed that the response of council members has been positive. “The response has been overwhelmingly supportive,” Anderson said. “That’s not to say some people have (not) had some negative response, but (it’s been) over 98 percent supportive.”

The issue of transgender clergy has divided some communities, most notably evangelical Christianity. The Rev. Paula Stone Williams, a board member of the Q Christian Fellowship, said she had lost several positions, including a pastorate in an evangelical megachurch and an editorial position, when she transitioned five years ago.

“There’s a massive difference between evangelicalism and mainline Protestantism” on the issue of transgenderism, said Williams, who now pastors Left Hand Church in Longmont, Colo. “I don’t know of any evangelical person who did not lose their (ministry) position for transitioning.”

Williams said it was important for clergy and church leaders to be honest in their self-expression.

“I think it’s marvelous that we’re seeing more and more religious leaders come out and be true to who they are,” Williams said. “When you’re fighting against your basic identity, it’s hard to bring your whole self to the table. When you can, it’s better for everyone.”

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Mark A. Kellner

208 Comments

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  • Before the deluge of negative comments begins, I would urge would-be naysayers to consider this question:

    Why does this person’s sexual identity bother me so much that I’d go out of my way to mock it?

    Answer that question honestly and you might learn something about yourself and your various insecurities. This person’s sexual identity has nothing to do with you.

  • But it does.

    Like gay people, transgender people challenge the certainties and comfort levels of those who are certain that the world is ordered according to their beliefs and prejudices, and that all, ALL, was revealed in an ancient book, to which they have aligned their beliefs and prejudices, which in turn assure them they are the favored favorites of an all powerful deity who will reward them for their faithfulness, and punish them for the lack of it.

  • A mere question: If your last line is true, why did RNS publish an entire news article (to a gazillion readers) that’s clearly based on “this person’s sexual identity”?

    There is no need for anybody to “mock”, but there IS a need to “think.”

    This guy — yes, the guy’s DNA says he’s a guy and his DNA will continue saying so even after the sex surgery is done — is a state religious leader of an entire council of churches. No small platform.

    He has influence, and what he’s doing will influence not only religious folks, but also some youth and adults who suffer from Gender Identity Disorder.

    The two amazing genders are NOT interchangeable, not on the outside, nor on the inside. But this guy chooses to defy both God and human experience, and he’s got a religious platform to sell his defiance.

    So readers, this guy has injected HIS private business into YOUR public business. So you actually do get to say something about it, be it “pro or con.”

  • I seriously doubt that this 70 year old man intends to have “bottom surgery.” But his three month leave may allow him to have “top surgery” as well as make the transition of presenting as female outwardly in public.

    Stronger than the DNA, is the imprint on our brains which is the true key to our gender identity. His brain tells him that he is female. It has likely told him that for decades, but fear of what others might say and how they may act toward him may have caused him to suppress his identity for years.

    Blessings upon him for finally taking this step in the final years of his life.

  • If the imprint on our brains is that strong, psychology and psychiatry are wasting their time.

  • Then why do psychologists and psychiatrists stay in business?

    Or is “gender identity” a special case, while various psychoses, disorders, and neuroses are malleable and treatable?

  • My impression was that it was to tip anyone who was not aware which theological school the Rhode Island Council of Churches represents.

  • Yes, gender identity and sexual orientation are nature, hardwired, not nurture or environment, which results in psychosis, neurosis and other disorders.

  • I certainly believe that you believe that.

    What seems to be missing is a hard scientific basis for believing it to be true.

    In fact when the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM, it did so because the members voted to do it rather than supporting the decision with any study, science, or data.

  • Psychiatry and Psychology have never been considered hard sciences. But with almost every passing day, studies across many fields gather more and more evidence that stacks up to support that its true. Twin studies, DNA studies, testosterone studies, estrogen studies, epigenetics…

  • God gives blessings and mercies to everybody, of course. But honestly? This development really ain’t one of those blessings. This one is a curse, a disorder, that is being sold and marketed in today’s America as a blessing.

    “His brain tells him that he is female.” Yes, the DSM (the manual used by psychologists) used to call that “Gender Identity Disorder.” Something to be compassionately treated and countered, NOT celebrated and marketed.

    This article is essentially an evangelistic tract for transgenderism, which is part of the LBGT religion. That’s why Christians have to speak up and point out certain aspects that this RNS puff-piece refused to point out.

  • A lot of us who work in a number of different fields regarding mental health use the DSM, which is published by the American Psychiatric Association, not the American Psychological Association. The DSM-5 has moved Gender Identity Disorder out of the section on sexual disorders into it own section and renamed Gender Dysphoria. The majority of practitioners do treat their patients/clients with compassion and dignity and most work to affirm the person’s understanding of their gender identity, not try to change them.

    It isn’t a puff piece, it’s a general interest piece about this person and why they are taking a leave of abscense. It’s an affirmation of the steps that he is taking in seeking his own wellness and happiness.

  • LGBT puff-piece articles like this one, raise quick questions for many people. So Christians should use the Comment Section to offer quick information and some answers. Here’s 2 examples.

    What should Christians believe & respond about transgenderism?
    http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/2250/on-transgender-identity

    Is transgenderism hardwired? And do **former** transgenders exist?
    https://www.westernjournal.com/former-transgender-theres-no-solid-evidence-of-genetic-basis-for-trans-identity/

  • I know. After many years, the PC Police finally succeeded in making the APA remove Gender Identity Disorder (key word: “disorder”) from the DSM, just like they removed homosexuality from the DSM.

    Part of the LGBT normalization campaign, of course. The media assists this effort, by the way, by providing Puff Pieces and Evangelistic Tracts (so to speak).

    The GID hasn’t been eliminated at all; it’s still a big disorder and big problem in people’s lives. But now, just like homosexuality, it’s no longer politically correct to talk as if it’s a problem needing correction.

  • The notion that “more and more evidence that stacks up to support that its true. Twin studies, DNA studies, testosterone studies, estrogen studies, epigenetics” appears to be wishful thinking.

  • Because the DSM is based on medical science and studies that increase our knowledge yearly and not some Iron Age book of mythology.

  • ” After many years, the PC Police finally succeeded in making the APA remove Gender Identity Disorder (key word: “disorder”) from the DSM, just like they removed homosexuality from the DSM.”

    So, why didn’t your god step in with the Dominionist Christian (DC) police to prevent those changes, and/or to replace the DSM with his bible?

  • Exactly–and this is why he should resign a post that promotes the iron age book (weekly sermons) and go into science or become a researcher. If he is allowed to remain in a position of authority–what now is his source?

  • Exactly Ben. Now perhaps this 70 year old Minister who uses any portion of this mythological book might consider abandoning it along with his maleness? What vocation might he rather enjoy to avoid such maddening duplicity?

  • Neither are what I am suggesting at all. Quoting a rather frequent, far right religious contributor to these very pages, religion has nothing to do with science or experience.

    The issue isn’t with the book per se, but with what people do with it. This has been my position for years, despite the words that others insist on putting into my mouth.

    The issue isn’t abandoning his maleness, whatever that means. That’s exactly what I meant about the world’s alleged order being challenged.

  • This is about mental illness and those who want to take advantage of him. They should be locked up.

  • This isn’t about challenging anything. This is about mental illness and the evil of those who are taking advantage of this man for their perverted purposes.

  • So he left being a follower of Christ to rebel against Him and how He created him – of course he knows better than Christ, eh, the One who made him, to follow satan’s question..”Did God really say?”

  • We differ on this only because mental illness is not a defiance against Christ; The person is spiritually ill and believed the lie of satan.

  • The homosexual activists will make lots of money on this one – he’s supposed to be a Christian.

  • “God has His reasons for allowing evil in the world for a time.”

    Well, that certainly does explain why you continue to exist, at least for now.

  • So, using your “logic” . . . If a Christian guy was born with Down Syndrome, and then later in life he chose to implement a newly developed cure, you would surely say that he chose to “rebel against Him [Christ] and how He created him – of course he knows better than Christ, eh, the One who made him, to follow satan’s question..”Did God really say?”

  • The DSM used to be based on medical and psychological science. That part is true.

    But that seriously changed, with the rise of the gay activist movement. That particular bullying and pressuring effort to re-write the DSM and set some PC-Police boundaries, makes for some interesting reading.

    The DSM, and every professional using it, ultimately became subject to gay politics instead of science. Even today.

  • Look at the bright side.
    The anti-ex-gay industry can continue to raise large fortunes pushing the same crap you do.

  • Your narrative about how the APA was bullied into declassifying being gay as a mental illness is yet another one of your narratives to explain how not everybody has your rabid fears of gay people.
    I was in Honolulu in 1973. you weren’t.
    The gay movement at that time was nascent, and had none of the power to cause these massive changes that you insist they exercised in order to explain your absolute disbelief that not everyone clings to outmoded prejudices, insanity, ignorance, and bigotry.

  • The bright side would be them turning to Christ and forsaking their sin, so they don’t end up in Hell.

  • Hey, you’re right Ben, you were in Honolulu in 1973, and I wasn’t. I was right here in good ole Kansas.
    But where were you in 1970?

    Please check out the following information, readers. You gonna love this:

    The APA vote to normalize homosexuality was driven by politics, not science. Even sympathizers acknowledge this.

    Ronald Bayer was then a fellow at the Hastings Institute in New York. He reported how in 1970 the leadership of a homosexual faction within the APA planned a “systematic effort to disrupt the annual meetings of the American Psychiatric Association.”

    …The tactics worked. Acceding to pressure, the organizers of the following APA conference in 1971 agreed to sponsor a special panel, not ON homosexuality, but BY homosexuals. If the panel was not approved, the program chairman had been warned, “They’re (the homosexual activists) not going to break up just one section.

    (Continued next post)

  • (Continuing from previous post)

    But the (1971) panel was not enough. Bayer continued:

    Despite the agreement to allow homosexuals to conduct their own panel discussion at the 1971 convention, gay activists in Washington felt they had to provide yet another jolt to the psychiatric profession…Too smooth a transition would have deprived the movement of its most important weapon — the threat of disorder.

    They turned to a Gay Liberation Front collective in Washington to plan the May 1971 demonstration. Together with the collective, they developed a detailed strategy for disruption, paying attention to the most intricate logistical details.

    There’s more Ben, but I think readers now clearly see what I was talking about earlier. Away from your Hawaii and my Kansas, these gay activists decided to change science — not with more and better science, but with raw bullying threats (and raw bullying actions to make it clear they meant business.)

    THAT, folks, is how the DSM ultimately got re-written to appease the gay activists. It wasn’t science. it was raw, outright Bullying.

    All snippets are taken from Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth (1996), by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, (former fellow in Psychiatry & Child Psychiatry at Yale, and a past president of the C.G. Jung Foundation), pages 32-33.

    Dr. Satinover is quoting from Dr. Ronald Bayer’s 1981 book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis.

  • Probably because bullying tactics and the threat of violence are acceptable to the PC’s, not the DC’s.

  • Romans 6:16 (NASB) sheds much needed light, “Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?”
    Either way, we are slaves—we are God’s servant or a slave to our passions and desires. 2 Timothy 1:7 (NIV)

  • Either way, we are slaves—we are God’s servant or a slave to our passions and desires. 2 Timothy 1:7 (NIV)
    Would seem he never gave himself to Christ.

  • Ever read bayer’s book? didn’t think so.

    Of course it was all political, in the sense that millions of people were cured overnight of a disease they didn’t know they had by means of a vote of the membership, which if I remember correctly, was unprecedented. It was not political in the sense you mean it until afterward. But the vote was spurred on by the fat that there really wasn’t any evidence whatsoever that gay people were mentally ill, and CERTAINLY NOT BY THE VERY DEFINITION OF MENTAL ILLNESS ESTABLISHED BY THE APA BASED UPON SOME SORTOF MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLE.

    The real politicking came after the initial vote, when the antigays— led by Charles Soccarides, father of a gay son, and Irving Bergler— both fairly vicious homophobes, and horrified that they would be losing a prime source of income by preying on fear and prejudice, thought they could undo the vote by forcing a referendum on the entire membership. They lost.

    And why? Because there simply wasn’t any evidence that gay people are mentally ill, or doing anything other than offending bigots, religious nutcases, and anti science homophobes.

    When science, even the nonsense of gay being something mentally ill, supports your positions, you’re all for it. But when it disagrees with you, it’s “stupid scientists.”

  • PS if anything, “the politics” you decry showed how silly the whole thing was, how it was very much based upon prejudice and belief, and not medicine, mental health, or science.

  • Absolutely more nonsense. And from Satinover, no less. no surprise there.
    Why don’t you read Ronald bayers book, and report on it from there? Oh, wait. Bayer doesn’t support your conclusions, based upon a paragraph from satinover that doesn’t say what you claim it says. And in 1971, as I said, the gay movement was frankly in its beginning stages.
    You must simply have a narrative that supports your nonsense, because it is simply inconceivable to you that kind, decent, intelligent and informed people could possibly come to any different conclusion about gay people than you and the rest of the bigoted and uninformed religious nutcases can come up with.

  • While a DSM diagnosis was necessary for most to obtain medical treatment in the past, the listing did not endorse “countering” that need. Rather, it recognized the need.

    How, exactly, is this woman’s transition a threat to anyone?

  • It puts things in perspective to consider that overall, taking into account MSWs and related counselors, psychologists of various stripes, and psychiatrists of various schools, studies over decades have shown that counseling has an approximately 1/3 chance of helping an individual, 1/3 chance of doing essentially nothing, and 1/3 chance of actually damaging the client.

    Were counseling a drug, it could not achieve FDA approval.

    DSM-II considered homosexuality as a form of paraphilia in its first six printings.

    In the seventh printing of DSM-II homosexuality was shifted to sexual orientation disturbance.

    The trigger was a number of events, particularly the Stonewall riots in 1969.

    Protests by gay rights activists against the APA began in 1970 when the organization held its convention in San Francisco. The activists interrupted speakers and shouted down psychiatrists who viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder.

    In 1971 the Gay Liberation Front collective demonstrated at the APA’s convention. Gay activist Frank Kameny grabbed the microphone and yelled:

    “Psychiatry is the enemy incarnate. Psychiatry has waged a relentless war of extermination against us. You may take this as a declaration of war against you.”

    By December, 1973, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-II).

    In DSM-III, homosexuality was shifted to a new “Ego-dystonic homosexuality” classification.

    In DSM-III-R “Ego-dystonic homosexuality” classification was also removed and was largely subsumed under “sexual disorder not otherwise specified”, which can include “persistent and marked distress about one’s sexual orientation.

    And so on.

    Despite protests to the contrary by the the American Psychiatric Association, including planted “scholarly” articles defending this series of reclassificatons (see, for example “Out of DSM: Depathologizing Homosexuality”, 2015, December, by Jack Drescher which can be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov), none of this was supported by hard research but was the result of lobbying and voting first by a cowed APA, and then by what might charitably be called “New Left” psychiatrists.

  • A normalization campaign based on findings from Creation, aka biology.

    Odd thing – up until around 2000 most denominations cared very little if someone transitioned. Most quietly respected the process and allowed the person to change their name in the registry if there was one. 2002 was when the Catholic child-molesting-priests scandal was really starting to break so they brought Paul McHugh on board as their psych/science/sexuality “expert”. Funny choice given that his history included shutting down the JH gender clinic to replace it with John Money & Fred Berlin’s clinic to teach molesters how to evade legal prosecution. But I digress. Anyhow, once the Church started loudly focusing on this new topic (anti-LGBT, but eventually esp. the T) other more conservative denominations followed suit, especially evangelicals. See, there was money to be made & power to be gleaned with such a defenseless & small target. Sorta like fire & brimstone pastors railing against dancing some years back, it has very little to do with Jesus’ message.

  • The first one is the Southern Baptists, yes? Then it applies only to their faith and not that of other Christians. ‘Tis amazing how easily they claim to speak for all with such confidence.

    The second…is Walt Heyer, who lists the results of exactly one study & focuses on the word “may”. Conveniently ignoring a quarter century – thousands of papers – of exceedingly solid findings in neurology, genetics, endocrinology & developmental biology. Walt is…a bit of a character.

  • So, did the deity intend his affliction? Did it will it?

    On the other hand, does Donald Anderson have a disease?

    Just what is it that you’re trying to argue?

  • Christian denominations are all in different faiths?

    No, there are not “thousands of papers – of exceedingly solid findings in neurology, genetics, endocrinology & developmental biology”.

  • That ” until around 2000 most denominations cared very little if someone transitioned” seems – like the quality of mercy – to “droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven Upon the place beneath”.

    There is an entire body of literature in Christianity dealing with the moral issues surrounding so-called “transitioning”, which medically simply means changing some externals on an unchanged male or female.

    Yes, you clearly have an anti-Christian agenda.

    No, you seem to be wholly sans data to support it.

  • I think you meant to say “myself and people who agree with me” rather than “kind, decent, intelligent and informed people”, which suggests that those who disagree with you consists solely of “bigoted and uninformed religious nutcases”, which should be replaced with “people who disagree with me”.

  • Please do reference this “entire body of literature”. I’ve nearly a half century of studying everything from fragments of scrolls to various translations. I’d love to see what you’ve got.

  • The entire APA episode was political, not science, and certainly not driven by evidence.

  • I disagree.

    The DSM was never based on science.

    It was based on observations, framed within schools of theories.

    That is the sole and only thing that supports Mr. Ben in Oakland (apparently according to his response to you formerly Ben in Honolulu) in his argument that the APA was not going against science.

    There was little or no science to go against.

  • The DSM has never been based on medical science and studies.

    It has always been based on a vote, sort of a shared myth.

  • Yeah, there really are. Although the citation chain goes back much further for simple statistics collection (see R.Green 1970) the modern era of sex dimorphic neurology studies really start with Zhou et all 1994. It was extremely rough as many pioneering studies are, with a statistically insignificant sample size. But from there entire new fields of study, whole new specialties evolved over the next quarter century. From that came knowledge that today in those fields is now simply accepted as baseline knowledge. Such as how the SRY gene goes through a 3-way dance of expression-inhibition to trigger specific brain sites to develop toward the male or female end of the spectrum. Or that those sites contain things like a low level neural map of the body much like how one part of the occipital lobe contains a map of the retina. Or that said map is hardwired but works in concert with one that is near the top levels of brain function for things like movement. Really, you owe it to yourself to look such things up before commenting lest you risk appearing ignorant.

  • As soon as you reference the non-existent ” thousands of papers – of exceedingly solid findings in neurology, genetics, endocrinology & developmental biology” supporting yourself.

    While you do your research – which should take a few years – here are samplers to whet the appetite:

    https://www.ncbcenter.org/resources/frequently-asked-questions/gender-identity-disorder-and-sex-change-operations/

    https://www.ncbcenter.org/files/3915/1248/9483/Gender_Transitioning_and_Catholic_Health_Care-DiCamillo.pdf

    https://www.ncbcenter.org/files/7115/2028/5324/2017FAQ_TransgenderResponses_FINAL.pdf

    Since the Catholics seem to have the most schools of philosophy and medicine, and because of the approach they take to ethical issues, they are probably the largest single source of considerations of the ethics of gender transitioning.

  • Two names.

    No books.

    No articles.

    Nothing.

    Swell.

    I am so impressed.

    Really, you owe it to yourself to look such things up before commenting lest you risk appearing ignorant.

  • No, I wouldn’t bother because you haven’t indicated having the slightest clue about what you’d be presented with.

  • please make it harder next time.

    Here is an excerpt of a lecture by Dr. Robert Sapolsky an American neuroendocrinologist, professor of biology, neuroscience, and neurosurgery at Stanford University, researcher and author

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3C4ZJ7HyuE

    The research he is referring to is indicated below with leading asterisks (**)

    Peer-Reviewed Papers on Neurological gendered differences in the transsexual brain

    Male-to-female transsexuals show sex-atypical hypothalamus activation when smelling odorous steroids. by Berglund et al Cerebral Cortex 2008 18(8):1900-1908;

    http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/8/1900.abstract

    …the data implicate that transsexuality may be associated with sex-atypical physiological responses in specific hypothalamic circuits, possibly as a consequence of a variant neuronal differentiation.

    **Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full

    The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.

    Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15724806

    Solid evidence for the importance of postnatal social factors is lacking. In the human brain, structural diferences have been described that seem to be related to gender identity and sexual orientation.

    **A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html

    Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones

    A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity. by Garcia-Falgueras et al Brain. 2008 Dec;131(Pt 12):3132-46.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980961?dopt=Abstract

    We propose that the sex reversal of the INAH3 in transsexual people is at least partly a marker of an early atypical sexual differentiation of the brain and that the changes in INAH3 and the BSTc may belong to a complex network that may structurally and functionally be related to gender identity.

    White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. Rametti et al, J Psychiatr Res. 2010 Jun 8.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20562024

    Our results show that the white matter microstructure pattern in untreated FtM transsexuals is closer to the pattern of subjects who share their gender identity (males) than those who share their biological sex (females). Our results provide evidence for an inherent difference in the brain structure of FtM transsexuals.

    Regional cerebral blood flow changes in female to male gender identity disorder. Tanaka et al, Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2010 Apr 1;64(2):157-61.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20132527

    GID subjects had a significant decrease in rCBF in the left anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and a significant increase in the right insula compared to control subjects.

    The ACC and insula are regions that have been noted as being related to human sexual behavior and consciousness. From these findings, useful insights into the biological basis of GID were suggested.

    Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation. Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955753?dopt=Abstract

    The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

  • it’s not a special case.

    the fact is you have no treatment plan that is supportable.

    nothing you try works. it’s not medicine.

    and if there is something that can change this, you don’t have it.

    you have some snake oil, and some anecdotes, but so do the people that sell herbalife.

  • Robert Sapolsky, an avowed atheist, has focused his research on issues of stress and neuronal degeneration, not human sexuality.

    https://news-media.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/08115014/sapolsky_qa.jpg

    Your citations, one at a time:

    https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/18/8/1900/285954

    Discusses “One working hypothesis behind transsexuality”. Concludes “data implicate that transsexuality *may* be associated with sex-atypical physiological responses in specific hypothalamic circuits, possibly as a consequence of a variant neuronal differentiation.” More research is needed.

    https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/85/5/2034/2660626

    Considered whether the reported difference according to gender identity in the central part of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) of transsexuals was based on a neuronal difference in the BSTc itself or just a reflection of a difference in vasoactive intestinal polypeptide innervation from the amygdala, which was used as a marker. Found some somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain to indicate a differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder. More research is needed.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15724806

    In the human brain, structural diferences have been described that *seem* to be related to gender identity and sexual orientation. More research is needed.

    http://www.nature.com/articles/378068a0

    This 1995 study purportedly shows a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals which “supports the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones”.

    The basis for this “study” was a post-mortem examination of 34 subjects, (9 presumed heterosexual males, 9 homosexual males, 10 presumed heterosexual females, and 6 male-to-female transsexuals) ranging from 20–53 yr of age, plus 6 brains (3 males and 3 females) of patients with sex hormone disorders.

    The EXACT SAME DATA was then reused in 2000 in an article in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism you cite above by the very same researchers.

    Among the concerns others researchers have expressed are that these were post mortem examinations, based on assumptions from animal studies, a statistically useless tiny sample size, not to mention reusing the very same subjects and very same data to reinforce previous findings.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980961?dopt=Abstract

    Proposes that the sex reversal of the INAH3 in transsexual people is at least partly a marker of an early atypical sexual differentiation of the brain and that the changes in INAH3 and the BSTc *may* belong to a complex network that *may* structurally and functionally be related to gender identity. More research is needed.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20562024

    “Our results show that the white matter microstructure pattern in untreated FtM transsexuals is closer to the pattern of subjects who share their gender identity (males) than those who share their biological sex (females). Our results provide evidence for an inherent difference in the brain structure of FtM transsexuals.” More research is needed.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20132527

    “Despite a range of research on gender identity disorder (GID), at present there is no scientific consensus on whether the etiology of GID is mental or physical.”

    Amen.

    “The ACC and insula are regions that have been noted as being related to human sexual behavior and consciousness. From these findings, useful insights into the biological basis of GID were suggested.”

    Again more research is needed.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955753?dopt=Abstract

    “…. in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain”.

    More research is needed.

    So, let’s summarize.

    All of these very preliminary studies raise areas possibly worth further investigation.

    None of them are conclusive.

    None of them indicate transsexuality is treatable or untreatable.

    At least one of the teams, the one which includes Jiang-Ning Zhou, has dusted off the same data and tried different presentations in an effort to attract some grant money.

    So, more research is need. Until then, the jury is out.

  • 1. there is no such thing as “conclusive” (the way you’re using it) data on human sexual behavior and gendered behavior, and you know it.

    2. Robert Sapolsky’s personal belief system is not relevant.

    3. You misrepresented the 1995 and 2000 studies. Different studies carried out by different orgs.

    You also misleadingly claim more research is needed, despite this evidence being stronger and more compelling than anything you’ve offered to claim it’s mutable.

  • I haven’t tried anything.

    Since 2/3 of the patients of psychologists and psychiatrist already gain no benefit or are actually damaged by the “approved” therapies for almost any ailment, including common maladies such as depression, it is not clear that walling off potential reparation therapies as a special case is anything but politically motivated.

    In fact the very citations you provided on very preliminary research point to possible interventions prenatal and postnatal that might prove useful.

  • Of course you haven’t tried anything. What could you try? You have no solutions. Nothing.

    > Since 2/3 of the patients of psychologists and psychiatrist already gain no benefit or are actually damaged by the “approved” therapies for almost any ailment, including common maladies such as depression, it is not clear that walling off potential reparation therapies as a special case is anything but politically motivated.

    That’s still almost 1/3 more than your torture therapy manages, and your torture therapy raises rates of suicide and self harm. Which is why it’s medically unethical. If you had data to say otherwise, one of you would have produced it by now. All you have is years of no results, and ex-ex gays who lead organizations like Exodus coming clean about the scam.

    > In fact the very citations you provided on very preliminary research point to possible interventions prenatal and postnatal that might prove useful.

    You mean eugenics. First abort babies with downs, and then we’ll talk about aborting trans kids.

  • I agree there is no conclusive evidence on transgender symptoms. I don’t agree that there is no conclusive data on human sexual behavior.

    Of course Sapolsky’s beliefs are relevant. He has an agenda, and this is not the only area where he’s exhibited it.

    No, look at the fresh urls I provided – they are the SAME data, the SAME researchers, the SAME cadavers. I’ve run into these guys before.

    I don’t make any claim about more research being needed.

    You obviously have not spent any time reading this sort of stuff.

    A study of 34 cadavers is preliminary preliminary study.

    The purpose of these papers is to let other researchers know what is being studied, and to obtain funding for more research.

    Most of your citations were summary in nature, but if you’ll take a look at them they are filled with “may” and “could” and so on. To reach conclusions you need a lot more than these tidbits.

    So far there is no smoking gun, period.

  • > I don’t agree that there is no conclusive data on human sexual behavior.

    Your agreement isn’t relevant. The facts remain what they are even when you disagree. You can’t disagree with facts. You can disagree with opinions. My statement wasn’t an opinion.

    > Of course Sapolsky’s beliefs are relevant. He has an agenda, and this is not the only area where he’s exhibited it.

    Speculation, not fact.

    > You obviously have not spent any time reading this sort of stuff.

    More time than you. By years. I’ve also spent more time living the issue than you.

    You don’t want to make, experience and exposure, and level of knowledge the metric here, because you might as well walk away.

    I’ve forgotten more about the subject, then you’ll ever learn.

    > A study of 34 cadavers is preliminary preliminary study.

    Small sample sizes on trans people are always going to be an issue.

    All studies on trans people are preliminary by that metric. All studies on trans people will remain preliminary by that metric.

    It’s still more data than you have, which is nothing. Let’s not forget that.

    > Most of your citations were summary in nature, but if you’ll take a look at them they are filled with “may” and “could” and so on. To reach conclusions you need a lot more than these tidbits.

    You understand that I would have to give you access to my pubmed account for you to get more than summary, and that this would be stealing, and I’d be breaking commandment – you get that, right?

    Unlike you, I do care about keeping the covenant.

  • Thank you for making it clear that what you’re armed with is opinions.

    And nothing more.

  • Of course that isn’t true. But even if it were…

    The original denunciation, err, umm, expert medical opinion was based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

    And that, dear bob, is a fact.

  • [T]here are not “thousands of papers – of exceedingly solid findings in neurology, genetics, endocrinology & developmental biology.”

    You’re guilty of the same. You make broad unsupported statements all the time, more than once in this thread of comments. Somehow you feel that you are allowed, but not others.

    How about a list of 50 recent studies/papers out of the thousands you say support your belief.

  • You state all this, aside from trying to confuse the weak, as if the first statements about sexual diversity were correct. A lot like you believe your understanding of a very ancient book are correct.

  • You apparently failed to notice that I did not mention a deity or a book in my description of the events.

    With all due respect to the mind mavens, the DSM is NOT a scientific treatise, nor does the inclusion or exclusion of this or that in it constitute anything other than the voted on common knowledge of a trade that often claims to do considerably more than it actually can.

  • Then I’m confusing two Bobs. The other one must be the fundy.

    If you’re not religious, why do you seem to be arguing against sexual minorities?

  • I personally did NOT claim that thousands of studies and papers support any belief of my own.

    After our little discussion about the Episcopal Church USA one might assume you understand that I generally do not bluff.

    Now, if there is a particular claim that I made requiring support, bring it up while it is being discussed and I will do my best.

    However, not being your personal slave, I probably won’t be inclined to produce “50 recent studies/papers” at your beck.

  • Of course it’s true.

    The trip of the DSM entry through the DSM and out was not driven by “expert medical opinion”.

    There is little in psychiatry that is medical science.

  • I am not.

    I do take issue with non-facts presented as fact, and with odd interpretations of religious scriptures and traditions in support of non-facts.

    Unfortunately you and your cohorts see the world in black and white terms, and whether it’s you or Ben in Oakland or whoever all those who disagree must be benighted fundies, etc. etc, etc.

  • Obviously Dr. Satinover’s book has taken you by surprise. I figured it would. Lotta interesting material there.

    You are unable to refute Dr. Bayer’s very specific reports of organized gay bullying and threats at the ’70-’71 APA meetings.

    The DSM got altered, not by fresh science, but by fresh threats (and actions) of disorder & violence from gay activists.

  • I have been aware of satinover for years.
    No surprise whatsoever. He has both a lot of degrees and a lot of obsession over gay people.

    This is all we really need to know about satinover: “i]n the end the debate over homosexual behavior and its implications for public policy can only be decided conclusively on moral grounds, and moral grounds will ultimately mean religious grounds.”

    In other words, another conservative Christian publishing all sorts of crap to justify his religious biases.

    Perhaps he can explain how a small group of gay people managed to bully an entire convention of several thousand people, with security guards, police , and so forth, especially in the privacy of their voting habits.

    There were absolutely demonstrations. But the bullying part is a nonsense narrative intended to instill fear of Big Gay Goliath when it simply didn’t happen and wasn’t possible. It didn’t happen, could t happen, but is a useful narrative neverthelesss.

  • No, not quite factual Ben.

    Just because something gets listed in the DSM, doesn’t mean a person is insane. Nobody wants to put the old mental illness stigmas on people. Not “crazy”, not “asylum.”

    But a DSM listing does mean that there’s some kind of disorder (“objective disorder”, says the Catholic Catechism), somewhere in a person’s life. There”s an issue there, and we all got issues.

    A DSM listing also implies a need for change, help, healing, a removal of the disorder, a return to as much psychological health and freedom as possible.

    Which angered the gay activists to no earthly end. DSM became a top target.

  • Well my friend Elagabalus, I’ll pose you a better question: Why does a guy who’s enjoyed all the benefits of living in a male body for SEVENTY YEARS, suddenly decide he wants to try life in a female body??

    If this were a troubled young guy in his 20’s or 30’s, it would have some credence with me. But SEVENTY? C’mon!

  • I didn’t use the word “insane”, a legal term. you did.

    And again, you need to pretend that they are actually saying something. They are not.

    But if you want to go there, there are, many people — I’m not one of them— who would determine YOUR condition as a disorder. After all, Black people suffer from a variety of problems. High blood pressure. Children born out of wedlock at nearly twice the rate of “normal” people. A black man is more likely to go to prison than college. Fatherless homes. And all of those protests in the last century, including massive violent ones, intended to Bully white people into treating them decently? Do black lives matter?

    Your idiocy can cut both ways.

  • Ask your question of yourself. Why would that happen? Why do you think it is “sudden”? Do you think it is a decision made lightly in the spur of a moment?

    I’ve known a bu,her of gay men who always knew they were gay, but lived a heterosexual lifestyle— love that word— for years, only to come out late in life. It wasn’t sudden, but it was extremely difficult.

  • Boob makes a point of NOT specifying his religious proclivities for two reasons:

    1) so that he can pretend he is being objective. But in fact, he is not, and is quite religious. His constant references to “natural law” would lead me to suspect he is catholic, but he may merely be a hyper baptist.

    2) his religious proclivities, if named, would probably allow someone to conclude who he really is. According to him, he is famous, and has written no less than four books, and is an expert on everything.

    And if you disagree, as you have no doubt noticed, you’re a big poopy head,

  • Sorry, but I didn’t use the term “insane”, except to deny that a DSM listing automatically means “insane.” If you disagree with that specific denial, just say so.

    Meanwhile, I think the DSM history lesson is clear now, and well worth considering. Bullying and threats and organized gay disruptions, instead of science.

    If it makes you feel any better about things, the Black Lives Matter folks are just as guilty of bullyng mess, threats, and violence (and viciously inciting cop-killing too, which you guys did NOT do.)

    But that still doesn’t erase 1970-71.

  • Nor does it make your narrative a true one. no one was bullied into anything. It would have been impossible.

  • Bonobo makes a point of NOT addressing his allegations of religious proclivities to the author for two reasons:

    1) He is unable to figure out how to attack positions grounded in natural law rather than scriptures, and so he claims his opponent is “quite religious”. For example, he suggests that “(h)is constant references to ‘natural law’ would lead me to suspect he is catholic”, but when faced with:

    “…. the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation ….”

    and

    “… We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights …”

    by Jefferson, who was decidedly not Catholic, silence.

    2) He seriously want to identify anyone who differs with him so that he can get off whatever the topic at hand might be and get personal. He makes egregious and ridiculous statements such as “According to him, he is famous” and “(he) is an expert on everything”. This, of course, is simply cover for the fact that religion bashing is his one and only skill, and everything has to be channeled to fit it.

    Of course those who disagree with are big poopy heads.

    Btw, his last name is not “In Oakland”.

  • There is nothing in Christianity that is science. Stop inciting violence against gay and trans people, bigot.

  • Ben, it’s usually someone in their younger years–say by their mid 20’s, that they start experiencing some ambivalence about being of a different gender than that of the body they inhabit.

    It’s amazing to me that this man had the sensitivity and courage to discern a call to the ministry and follow through with the preparation for it. Yet, somehow he needed a whole 65 years to discern his gender problem and have the courage to communicate his feelings about it.

    Twenty more years, maybe. A full 65, uh, NO!

  • It doesn’t mean that he wasn’t aware of it, but that there are huge pressures on people to conform in terms of gender and sexuality, and some people are more susceptible to it than others. It also doesn’t mean your life stops because you realize you are gay and trans.

    I knew I was gay when I was probably three. I didn’t know what it was until I was 10, or what it meant until I was 13. It took another eight years before I finally came out, and another three years after that before I was fully comfortable. But my life didn’t stop while I was doing everything else as a young man.

    Look at the positive viciousness of so many people when it comes to keeping gay and trans in the places assigned to them. We have people on these very pages defining a Christian according to whether someone is antigay, or antigay enough. The pressures on gay people can be immense, and on trans people, beyond immense.

  • I of III
    Speaking of dishonest as h-ll, when confronted with the allegation that “he is the smartest guy in this or any room, an expertly on catholic theology, behavioral science, Protestant theology, biblical history, biblical exegesis, science in general, politics, history, ancient history, biblical history, psychology, gay rights, democracy, the constitution, and anything else.”, I support a specific position (not, of course, a request for 50 recent citations) with one or more citations.

    You on the other hand … nada.

  • II of III
    Also speaking of dishonest as h-ll, you’ve been unable to cite a single statement in which I call my opponent “a m-ron, a hater, AND a big po-ppy head”, although I have pointed out – with citations – you’re a hater of religion.

    As today’s rants demonstrate, the answer to “if only we knew who he really was, but he doesn’t tell anyone who he is for reasons known only to him.” is with folks like you, whose last name assuredly is not “in Oakland”, on the internet, revealing personal information is a sign of insanity.

    With nothing further of substance to add to a discussion, you’re reduced to “Not surprisingly, he was posting his diatribes under two different names until he was called out on it by yours truly, which has earned me his extra special enmity so that he follows me around everywhere just to denounce me.”

  • III of III

    You’re nowhere near getting anything right, and nowhere near significant enough to follow around anywhere, let alone everywhere.

    As to “Said alter ego made a brief reappearance a few weeks ago, but the resurrection didn’t take.”, unlike you I actually took a look at the poster’s ID, and golly gee whillikers Wally, there were two other individuals. Apparently D-squs put a bullet in them.

    Thank you, once again, for making it clear that if you happen to get a fact right, it is an accident.

  • We have a doctor, orthopedic surgeon here in town who transition after he retired at 75. He was certain he’d lose his well respected practice had he transitions younger. And, yes, she had her wife are still married and were surprised and pleased to fine out this community still likes and respects her as her.

  • The rampant molestation, greed, and degeneracy of the catholic church makes me wonder why – the fact that it is satanic aside – you’d think their “ethics” are worth considering.

    They are not ethical.

  • the secret of that arrogance is insecurity. every time he has to blow his own horn, he is reacting to dredged up feelings of personal inadequacy.

    there’s also dissonance there. so i can guarantee you that emotionally, he is not having a good time of this.

    that’s enough reason for me to continue.

    that i have the facts on my side is window dressing, and not why i bother with men like this.

    i bother with men like this because he breaks several mitzvot, and in doing so he’s building his own little box of suffering and gnashing of teeth.

    i’m just stringing that along.

  • There’s nothing to falsify.

    You presented a handful of tiny (one a duplicate) preliminary studies.

    Whoop whoop.

  • Your opinion of the Catholic Church certainly fits your other opinions, and appears to be drawn from the same well.

  • The secret of your arrogance is your overwhelming sense of inadequacy, which unfortunately is based on a realty of overwhelming inadequacy.

  • My position is that you presented a handful of tiny (one duplicate) preliminary studies.

    The support was your post and my excerpts with – in some cases – better urls for your citations.

  • oh look, more projection.

    i am simply one of the wretched, almost-people.

    not a giant among men as you claim to be.

    just a nobody.

    They inquired of the LORD again, “Has anyone else come here?” And the LORD replied, “Yes; he is hiding among the baggage.”

    Thus he will not act haughtily toward his fellows or deviate from the Instruction to the right or to the left, to the end that he and his descendants may reign long in the midst of Israel.

    but i value the truth.

  • Small northern California coastal town. I get to much hate mail and death threats as it is to care to narrow it down for you. There was an article about them in an international paper, about a year ago, should you care to do the research.

  • No, I have not taken the position “that trans people shouldn’t transition”.

    Read the posts and, if you find my statement saying that, quote it.

    As to “born trans”, my position is that the jury is still out.

    Your cited studies showed some potential areas of inquiry for further study, but all were rife with “may”, “could”, “support”, and other qualifiers because they simply were not the sort of large in-depth types of studies that are needed to settle a matter.

    What you may not care for is that at least two of them – if the hypotheses pan out long range – point towards potential treatments, either prenatal or postnatal.

    That should give California a real twist in its knickers.

  • If Christ decides to use therapy to help these people, more power to Him. I suppose you are against Alcoholics Anonymous helping people to quit drinking because people can die experiencing alcohol withdrawals.
    It will not kill a person to come to the reality of Christ honey.

  • the evidence is on it being neurological.

    you of course will deny deny deny even as evidence accrues accrues accrues.

    you want an impossible standard of proof: the complete and full schematic for human neurology reduced to bullet points. you won’t accept anything less. not medical science, not evidence, nothing.

    you’ve made that clear, and i am done with your dishonesty. you are now blocked.

  • The preliminary studies show that there may be a neurological component. Similar studies have been done on depression, OCD, and other behavioral abnormalities and none of them have led to conclusions as definitive as you seem to think these studies were.

    The standard of proof is not impossible, but it can’t be met with 34 cadaver brains.

    You’re not going to last long in this discussion, young lady.

  • “When you thing injecting cattle with hormones is evil but you think injecting kids with hormones to change their gender is just fine.” the
    Activist Mommy

  • i already did. i cited a parable in Matt 25 and the entire chapter of Matt 7.

    i’m sorry you don’t recognize a citation to scripture when you see it.

    maybe if you read the bible, that might help?

  • ANd that, dear boob, is an outright lie.

    You claim to have written four books. You stated clearly that everyone would be so impressed if they only knew your true identity, which we will assume is not Superman.

  • Thanks. I have sources that I respect also. No verses in Matthew 7, or am I to try to read your mind?
    Matthew 25: I haven’t identified you as a goat, yet. A little confused, but that happens to us all at times.
    Homosexuality is a sin honey. Christ created us male and female; not and/or.

  • all the verses of Matt 7. The entire chapter is relevant. Or i wouldn’t have said Matt 7

    As far as how you identify me? it doesn’t matter.

    this was about activist mommy’s lawlessness, not yours. do try and keep up.

  • Did I accuse you of that, or is it another example of your lack of comprehension honey?

  • Bonobo,

    You will be unable to find anything I have written which “stated clearly that everyone would be so impressed if they only knew your true identity”, period.

    I do think that those who know me, my background, my family, and so on are much less surprised at what I post than – say – you are.

    Your statement, btw, I don’t consider a lie, which would require being conscious of the truth and willfully stating something else.

    I am not convinced you can clearly delineate between what you believe and what is factual, what you feel and what is real.

  • what is the greek word Paul uses for a transsexual male in scripture, and what is it’s english counterpart?

    I’ll give you hint, you either have to read it in greek, or in the original KJV, or the NASB because other translations change the greek

  • You were just upset with me elsewhere because you thought I misidentified you. Make up your mind pleasel

  • You never answered my question by the way….are you against Alcoholics Anonymous also?

  • I’m not going to bother going through your 1000’s of comments to find it. You know you said it, I know you said it.
    Have a nice day.

  • Are you still trying to impress yourself?
    Try to stay with the conversation….

  • i don’t answer silly questions.

    Alcoholics anonymous will lead nobody to the promised land.

    neither will the torture you bill as “therapy”

    the only thing that will get you to God, is Christ.

    Not alcoholics anonymous
    not the politicans you vote for
    or the torture you try to bill as medicine

  • Truthfully, I’m not interested.
    Do tell though, do you disagree with Alcoholics anonymous also?

  • yet you follow me around and comment afterward. You are having a difficult day today

  • yeah, because you need to find Christ, and you are lost. It’s my duty as a keeper of the covenant to help you get back on the path.

    trust me, i’d sooner leave you to your sin, if i was following my heart instead of God.

  • I’m still waiting for an answer to my question .l….oh well, you run along and pester someone else now.

  • Really? Measuring games as a form of debate? Thanks for the 5th grade efforts to play bully.

  • Actually, scripture – which you assert a superior knowledge of, ahem – condemns drunkenness.
    Also what will get you to God is following Christ. He is the door and the way.
    Now, run along and pester someone else

  • well, hopefully you have impressed yourself. Run along and pester someone else now.

  • condemning drunkenness is not the same thing as blessing alcoholics anonymous.

    could jesus have been any more clear than he was in John 14:6?

    He is your only path to salvation. That’s it.

    Not alcoholic’s anonymous. they won’t save you. at best all they can do is help keep you from drinking, but even then they don’t do a very good job, by the numbers.

    if you want to rescue yourself AA won’t do it. neither will the torture you want to inflict on people you can’t even name in a biblical sense.

  • A “bonobo” is at least a higher life form than you have shown yourself to be. Since cowardice is not associated with having a spine, we are forced to compare you with invertebrates. The primates are all far above you. But I am not sure I want to insult the banana slugs, either.

  • Again, your lack of comprehension is showing. Run along before you make yourself look sillier. God bless.

  • Note that the gun supporter, deluded Christian nutcase, bigot, and NRA shill presenting himself in this thread as “Bob Arnzen” variously and dishonestly uses a variety of names on RNS such as Bob Arnzen, José Carioca, and others. However, there is actually no real Bob Arnzen, and there is no real José Carioca.

    It is recommended that you refer to him and reply to him stating his name as “Bobosé”, “BobbyJoe”, or just “snowflake”.

    The José Carioca account for this post is used as a parody of “Bob Arnzen”.

  • It is sad that you persist in creating new fake accounts

    https://disqus.com/by/jcarioca/

    https://disqus.com/by/jcarioca1/

    https://disqus.com/by/jcarioca2/

    after Disqus closes them one at a time for violating the prohibition against “Impersonation — misrepresents themselves as someone else”. Eventually Disqus will block your url and you’ll have to go to a public library to post.

    There is no Ben in Oakland, there is no Pope Hilarius II, there is no Moderator DC, there is no NoMoreBadTown, there is no PsiCop, and there is no Kangaroo52 because there is no ban on using pen names to avoid personal harassment, which is also a violation of Disqus terms of use.

    If you were able to carry on an actual discussion based on facts and reason we would not be reading your post, which makes clear who the deluded nutcase, bigot, etc. really is.

    -xx

  • I am sick to death of people putting down the state of California. This state is not full of beaches, woo-woo people and crackpots. We have a very diverse population, by any measure, including Democrats and Republicans. Or are Nunes, and Issa not Republicans? We have the highest point and the lowest point in the Continental 48, the largest agricultural valley in the county in the Central Valley, bigger than the country of Denmark.

    We are running a state surplus, our schools are funded again, and we are the 6th largest economy in the world. We receive back .78 for every dollar we sent the Federal government in taxes, while your “real America” takes back as much as $1.38 for every dollar they send in. Both Alaska and Hawaii take back more than $1.38 , but their cost of living is much higher as well. And I’m certain from your comments you would call one of those states “real” America and one of them not.

    So we produce most of the food you eat, much of the technology you use, and support your state’s federal funding with money we end in to the feds, but you are real America, and we aren’t.

    I am done discussing anything with you, the truth isn’t in you.

  • “I am sick to death of people putting down the state of California. This state is not full of beaches, woo-woo people and crackpots.”

    The most populous counties, and the governor’s mansion, unfortunately are.

    They’re the blue areas on the map:

    https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2018/01/18/USATODAY/USATODAY/636518813515786266-011618-New-California-state-NEW-Online.png

    The last time I was in California, just north of Sacramento, I had a local businessman apologize for the state before I had a chance to say anything.

    Yes, every fact you cited is true.

    Of course, the $7.6 billion surplus, the result of an overall stimulation of the economy across the nation since January, 2017, and massive tax increases, has already got the legislature devising plans to spend it.

    But I appreciate your sensitivity and your complete lack of a sense of humor.

  • Re: “After many years, the PC Police finally succeeded in making the APA remove Gender Identity Disorder (key word: ‘disorder‘) from the DSM, just like they removed homosexuality from the DSM.”  

    Yes, I know. How awful of them to have done that to you! Why, that APA decision must be positively painful for you. I’m certain the torment of it is unendurable.  

    </sarcasm>  

  • Gotta love how these Chrishun folk think their metaphysical beliefs magically grant them credentials in a scientific field … to the extent that they claim to know it better than actual professionals.  

    They do the same in many other fields, too (such as history). It’s laughable and childish — yet they do it nonetheless, and get all sanctimoniously enraged when it’s pointed out to them. 

  • Indeed, It would never occur to them that the psychiatrists voted as they did because enough of them had enough clinical experience and enough brains to come to that conclusion all by themselves, without guidance from religious idjits.

    Instead it has to be a massive conspiracy orchestrated by the gay Illuminati in order to bully them into voting as they did.

    It’s stupid beyond belief, but then…

  • Except, of course, for the irrefutable evidence of the shift of the membership of the APA to the left, the lack of any research supporting the change, and the numerous demonstrations and other documented pressure place on the APA.

    It must have been Polly Pure science and sheer brain power that bounced homosexuality all over the DSM and out the door over the years.

  • When I’m told that I am obligated to affirm a person’s anti-biological fantasies (“No, I really am a woman – it’s my biology that’s the liar”), it does “have to do with me.” I really don’t care what fantasies this man entertains – it’s none of my business. But it is my business when the force of law or public opinion require me to support him in his delusions.

  • Perhaps the question could be:

    Why does a reverend who’s teaching and life violates The Bible bother you?

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