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People of faith urge Trump to admit more refugees

Thousands of Syrian refugees walk in order to cross into Turkey on June 14, 2015, in Akcakale, Sanliurfa province, in southeastern Turkey. (AP Photo/Lefteris Pitarakis)

(RNS) — With a decision looming on how many refugees to admit into the country, and rumors swirling that the number could drop dramatically from this year’s historic low, people of faith are coming together to ask the Trump administration to instead allow tens of thousands more to enter the United States.

Representatives of some of the largest Protestant denominations in the country — including the General Board of Church and Society of the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the Presbyterian Church (USA) and the Episcopal Church — were planning to gather outside the White House on Wednesday (Sept. 12) to press President Trump to raise the number of refugees admitted in the fiscal year that begins Oct. 1 to 75,000 people.

And the Evangelical Immigration Table — a coalition that includes the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s single largest Protestant denomination — hosted a call demanding the same.

“I just believe the church has abundant resources, America has abundant resources, to welcome refugees to enjoy security and liberty and friendship — the friendship that Christians in America and Americans have to offer those who are most vulnerable in the world,” said Patrick Vaughn, assistant pastor of Christ Church East Bay in Oakland, Calif., who was one of the participants in the call.

For evangelicals in particular, the refugee crisis brings together a number of key concerns, according to Galen Carey, vice president of government relations for the National Association of Evangelicals. That includes religious freedom, human rights, sanctity of life, peace, protecting children and families and care for the poor and vulnerable, Carey said.


RELATED: Refugee groups fight Trump travel ban — and for their own survival


The New York Times has reported Trump is considering lowering the refugee ceiling to 25,000 people in the coming fiscal year, and Nathan Bult, director of government affairs for Bethany Christian Services, said during the call he’s heard numbers as low as 5,000 and interest from members of Congress in placing it as high as 100,000.

“We are already at unprecedented low levels,” Bult said.

Trump slashed that number dramatically when he set it at 45,000 his first year in office — the lowest presidential determination in history, according to Bult — and the U.S. is on track to admit a fraction of that number in the ending fiscal year. Since last October, it has received fewer than 20,000 refugees — a number not likely to top 22,000 in the few weeks before the fiscal year ends.

In this June 26, 2017, file photo, Santa Fe Archbishop John C. Wester speaks in support for Kadhim Al-bumohammed, a 64-year-old Iraqi refugee in the U.S., at an Albuquerque rally. The leader of New Mexico’s largest Roman Catholic diocese said Jan. 17, 2018, he believes comments about immigration attributed to President Trump “reflect bigotry” and that immigrants from poor countries made the U.S. great. (AP Photo/Russell Contreras)

By comparison, former President Obama set the refugee ceiling at 110,000 his last year in office.

The outcry from religious leaders and organizations comes weeks after a number of them signed on to a pair of letters asking Trump, Congress and key administration officials to resettle at least 75,000 refugees to the U.S. in the coming fiscal year.

About 400 evangelical pastors have added their signatures to a letter dated Aug. 7 from the Evangelical Immigration Table expressing “deep concern about the impact on international religious freedom.” Its original signers included Leith Anderson, president of the National Association of Evangelicals; Scott Arbeiter, president of  World Relief; and Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference.


RELATED: Questions remain for faith-based agencies as border crisis passes


And more than 750 faith-based organizations and national and local leaders signed on to another letter, dated Aug. 21, decrying the low number of refugees admitted this year and urging an increase for the next.

“Our collective scriptural mandate and our nation’s history and capabilities as a world leader demand no less,” according to the letter.

Like Wednesday’s planned demonstration, its signers included some of the largest Protestant denominations in the U.S., as well as faith groups such as the AJC, Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration and Islamic Relief USA. They also included Church World Service, HIAS, Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service, the Episcopal Church, World Relief and at least one Catholic Charities office. (Bethany, which offers services to immigrants and refugees through Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service, also was on the list.)

Those six agencies make up the majority of the nine agencies contracted with the government to resettle refugees in the U.S. Already decimated by the Trump administration’s immigration and refugee policies, they most recently have offered legal assistance and care to families impacted by the separation crisis at the border.

About the author

Emily McFarlan Miller

Emily McFarlan Miller is a national reporter for RNS based in Chicago. She covers evangelical and mainline Protestant Christianity.

94 Comments

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  • Trump: “But they’re not white!”

    Before we get started here, lets get something out of the way. None of this has anything to do with “strong borders”, “vetting” or “security concerns”. It has to do with the malice the administration has towards people of color.

    The current policy of cutting back on refugees goes hand in hand with the overall white supremacist policy for immigration adopted by the Trump Administration of limiting immigrants for its own sake. Hence Trump’s adoption of white supremacist terms like “chain migration” and “Green card lottery” to decry legal immigration. Not to mention the demonizing and dehumanizing language frequently employed of racial/ethnic minorities.

    The US has the longest and most successful history of integrating refugees as compared to any other nation. During every refugee wave, from the Irish in the 19th Century to now people have made the same stupid arguments about these new groups not adapting to the American way of life. Nothing has ever been further from the truth. You can point to many communities built up by former refugees as a model of economic success, integration and improvement for the nation.

    https://www.amazon.com/Will-Trade-Racists-Refugees-t-shirt/dp/B06XD5FB98

  • People of faith want more refugees admitted? Since when? Trump ran on a platform of not letting people who were fleeing violence into this country. For that platform, he won 80% of the Evangelical Christian vote. It’s pretty darn disingenuous for Evangelicals to turn around now and pretend they support accepting refugees.

  • Its not those kinds of Christians. The Evangelicals who support Trump are still very much the white supremacist nativist types they always were.

  • The leaders of conservative churches want to sound like they are “saying the right things” even though most of them encouraged their voters to elect the wrong things in practice.

  • Of course, amending all actions in accordance with the West’s accolade of the protection of each human’s rights (all Americans are born equal in the eyes of the Lords: the bastard of a whore, the son of Gates and Buffett ,and the owners of the hotel chains in the capitalistic rat race) the government should use refugees to their benefit as much as possible, without exploitation. Gobble their blood if they taste for safety and give it the youth of those who cannot afford health insurance.

  • Nice that the agencies pretend they are helping refugees-with our money! How disingenuous of them not to disclose that they receive a generous subsidy from we, the taxpayers, for every refugee they “settle”. How nice that we the taxpayers will be paying for these people for the rest of their lives! How insidious is it that religious organizations receive taxpayer money to settle people who have no business being here. What a corrupt and unaccountable program-eliminate the Refugee Resettlement program and audit it’s “contractors”.

  • The Christians decrying the current limits on refugees are not people YOU would consider Christian.

    We already know from Tony Perkins’s op ed here several months ago that your kind of Evangelical goes lock step with the white supremacy based immigration policies of the president.

  • Refugees pay back their settlement costs quite easily. Since refugee status grants permanent residence and a path to citizenship, there are no work restrictions. They tend to hit the ground running towards integration and economic well being far quicker than many other forms of immigrants.

    Whatever garbage you feel like slinging about it being somehow too costly is undermined by the taxes and economic boost refugees bring.

    Every refugee wave in the last 100 years has been a net gain for the nation economically.

    You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

  • Um, they get green cards with refugee status and a path to citizenship. They can work for a living and are ineligible for most public assistance. That is hardly exploitation.

  • Rent a mob at the WH
    Remember the American Conference okf Bishops wants to keep their $100 Million in tax payer money.

  • Perhaps there are brainwashed components embedded inside my subconscious that prevents me from unhinging the truth of the motivation of fascination, but, as far as I am aware of the marbles inside this head, beside that book at the wood) I truly am interested. Where does the shadow pull lie? Religion, premeditated ideological confinement, family or ethnic background? No racism is perceived by my sight. In the words of the Gorillaz “you perceive with your mind not with your eyes.”

  • You missed my point (no problem, more debate the better). If refugees enter, the government should use them to their advantage without in anyway hindering their bodies, minds, or access to knowledge for their escape for adept poverty.

  • Each evangelical is very different. Like storms, or the their rates of inclemency, they are all unique and differ.

  • You should see how fierce some of debate each other in attempt to abate their ideological propaganda leanings. I suggest you try and take a gander out of your own conscious embedded borders and peak at the reality of your linguistic argument’s components. Your ego is good, great, and dandy, but is it in way a detriment to your own comprehension?

  • For Pete’s sake, you make my mind frustrated by the arguments you present, but, I love it! Keep the flow of thoughts going. USe words not weapons.

  • And yet when many evangelicals here describe fellow Christians whose views on civil liberties differ, they go straight into attacking them as “not really Christian”.

  • You don’t have a point. You seem to be ignorant as to how the refugee system works.

    Why shouldn’t the government help out refugees in resettlement? Its an investment which creates huge returns for the rest of the country. You strike me as the type who looks for excuses to cut off government benefits to people, just out of spite.

  • Need some ranch dressing for that word salad? You seem annoyed that your pretense was a lot more transparent than expected. Oh well.

  • Where are the studies-legitimate studies-that show refugees pay back the costs taxpayers shell out? One study compiled by CIS (Center for Immigration Studies) showed that 93% of Iraqi refugees would be on some kind of public assistance for the rest of their lives. Exactly how is Mohammed with his nine children supposed to “support” his family with a non-skilled job paying $9.00/hour? We know for a fact that “refugee contractors” like the Catholic Church, IRC, HIAS etc. receive close to a billion dollars a year and are paid on a per capita basis-that is they are paid for every single refugee “settled” in your town or city by the State Department where the refugee programs are located. They make more by “loaning” taxpayer monies to “refugees”, most of who never pay it back. They are a net drain on society from every single viewpoint-the “refugee contractors” take their monies and run to the next batch of paying refugees. The problem is that these new refugees do not assimilate and congregate in larger cities in ethnic enclaves, resisting and rejecting assimilation into the main culture. Taxpayers, again, pick up the tab for translators, state Medicaid, TANF, AFDC, SSI and a host of other taxpayer paid for goodies. And we are stuck with the negative results of people with no knowledge of and no respect for our culture and our values. And we pay for it all coming and going. It sounds to me like YOU Spuddie don’t have a clue about the corrupt Refugee Resetllement program and its negative consequences to the native population. Google up refugee Esar Met for an inside look at those “saintly” refugees.

  • Absolutely wrong, Spuddie. They are eligible for every single taxpayer program that we offer. From Medicaid, to Medicare to SSI, TANF, AFDC, Food Stamps. Along with all this, they are provided free education, free medical care and in some cases, free or reduced cost housing. They bring with them few skills and many communicable diseases, which we the taxpayers pay to treat. How can you be so wrong, sir?

  • They are also charged for the costs of their travel. They are also eligible to work and in all cases as a community pay back what we pay in resettlement costs in terms of TAXES OFF THEIR EARNINGS (since they are eligible for employment).

    https://www.cgdev.org/blog/real-economic-cost-accepting-refugees
    “In the United States, the average refugee becomes a net contributor to public coffers eight years after arrival. ”

    Your screed is contradictory nonsense. We are providing an education for them yet are unskilled? No. The truth is they contribute to economic development and skill sets here. Refugee communities in this country have a long history of doing well here.

    “They bring with them few skills and many communicable diseases, which we the taxpayers pay to treat. How can you be so wrong, sir?”

    More BS. Refugees are the most vetted immigrants within our system. We have more to worry from tourists coming to our country. You are also getting your screeds mixed u

    You are either ignorant as hell and repeating crap from white supremacist cites or just a bigoted liar rehashing garbage that was old hat a century ago.

    You are just spouting off nativist garbage and looking to harm our country to keep it a little “whiter”.

  • You have not substantiated one word of your screed, but demand studies to prove my point?

    “One study compiled by CIS”

    CIS is a white supremacist anti-immigrant group. Their word isn’t worth a pile of dogcrap. They are a hate group. Of course this explains how you can be so ignorant or dishonest on the subject. You are quoting hate sites which oppose all immigration. Favorites of neo-nazis.

    https://www.politifact.com/florida/article/2017/mar/22/center-immigration-studies-hate-group-southern-pov/

    CIS has a long history of bigotry, starting with its founder, white nationalist John Tanton, but in 2016, the group hit a new low. CIS commissioned Jason Richwine, a man who’s Ph.D. dissertation endorses the idea of IQ differences between the races, to write multiple reports and blog pieces for the organization. The group also continued to circulate racist and anti-Semitic authors to its supporters, and finally, staffer John Miano attended the white nationalist group VDARE’s Christmas party in December.”

    Statistics Show Syrian Refugees Help Host Country Economies
    https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2017/05/12/statistics-show-syrian-refugees-help-host-country-economies/

    Migrants and refugees are good for economies
    “Analysis of 30 years of data from Western Europe refutes suggestions that asylum seekers pose a financial burden.”
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05507-0

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/whats-the-economic-impact-of-refugees-in-america
    “From what I’ve read and seen, the refugees that are coming now are more well-educated and better off than the typical person in the countries they are leaving. And they are young, so when they come to America, they don’t receive as many social services as they would if they were older. For a while, this must be a real net plus.”

    If you are going to continue to quote bullcrap studies by bigoted liars, go elsewhere.

  • The Center for Immigration Studies is NOT a white supremacist group simply because you say so with your silly quotes from lefty sources. Prove it or shut up! And please, the “non-profit quarterly” is your source? No problem there, they want the flow of refugees to continue, because of their bank accounts and you know it. You can go to the State Department website to verify all of the information I have posted. Nature and PBS are about as left of center as you can get and I am not interested in pan-Europaen propaganda-no sale, we are talking about America.. I can quote all the legitimate studies I want; this is still a free country until or unless the refugee agencies get their wish to inundate America with unvetted, Muslims. Take your fake “charity”, supported by taxpayers, and stick it. You are one of the reasons why Great Britain and Germany are turning into war zones-your unbridled greed and so-called altruism are blind. Refugees are not more educated simply because PBS says so. You are one of the reasons Trump won, and will continue to win. We have seen the horrific effects of do-gooders and their complete intolerance for the taxpaying public and their safety. I look forward to the day when refugee agencies are defunded, fold up their tents and go home. I guess it’s ok with you that refugees murder and rape Americans, eh? What does that make you????

  • Well then why are refugees murdering and raping Americans? Please tell me about how well vetted they are-what a lie and a scam! Then why do these heavily vetted people commit crimes against Americans? Are you going to deny that also or just shrink back into your lefty talking points that prove nothing. Sounds like you have an agenda-if somebody is getting close to the truth than call them names-white supremacist, indeed. How about a lover of the rule of law and order? You do know that refugees with communicable diseases are allowed into the US and not EVEN TREATED UNTIL THEY SIGN UP FOR state medicaid? What is your ugly response to that, fool? I would say that, based on all the evidence and studies, that you and you alone want to harm our country by allowing unvetted people into the US to change the population. Just what obama wanted and why he spent so much time and $$$ with the “Welcoming New Americans” program. I bet you must be really proud of places like Hammutrauck and Dearborn Michigan and other places where tens of thousands of Somallis have been placed, changing those towns and cities forever. I am not ignorant, it sounds like you are the one with little to no knowledge of how the Refugee Resettlement Program works-or in this case-doesn’t work at all.

  • Your saying so does not negate established facts about CIS. Founded by white supremacists, known for publishing phony studies attacking all forms of immigration.

    ” I can quote all the legitimate studies I want”

    But you haven’t. You cited a hate group, and not even directly. So I guess you can’t. I showed my work and linked to sources. You respond with a silly “nyuh-huh”. Your word isn’t worth a pile of crap in light of that.

    If you wanted to be taken seriously, try linking to sources to support your view instead of cutting and pasting from hate sites without attribution. Your views on the sources I cited aren’t a rebuttal which means anything.

    “this is still a free country until or unless the refugee agencies get their wish to inundate America with unvetted, Muslim”

    Now we get the ignorant bigoted “Brown Peril” garbage that I expected from a white supremacist who makes your kind of arguments. BTW liar, refugees are THE most vetted immigrants in our system.

    ” I guess it’s ok with you that refugees murder and rape Americans, eh? What does that make you????”

    Someone who does not believe in fictions borne by hate groups like you do.

    Are you going to regale me with nonsense about “no go zones”, “creeping Sharia” and “the sky high crime rate in American Muslim communities”? I need a good laugh.

  • Because you are giving me a fictional premise and expecting me to take it seriously. You are full of crap.

    Cities which took in the most refugees had significant DROPS in crime rates
    https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/is-there-a-link-between-refugees-and-u-s-crime-rates/

    Immigrants Do Not Increase Crime, Research Shows
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/immigrants-do-not-increase-crime-research-shows/

    Immigrant communities have lower crime rates per capita in general
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/us/trump-illegal-immigrants-crime.html

    You already proved to me you are both a liar and a bigot. Someone who takes garbage from hate sites at face value but is too spineless to bother to cite to them.

    “Please tell me about how well vetted they are-what a lie and a scam!

    I could, but you clearly don’t want to bother to read it. You are beholden to a dishonest and bigoted narrative having nothing to do with facts. Hence your reluctance to cite any outside source other than a prior reference to hatemonger liars Center for Immigration Studies.

    Try these articles concerning Trump’s false claims about refugee vetting

    https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/feb/03/tom-mcclintock/americas-refugee-vetting-already-robust-not-haphaz/
    “claims about “very haphazard vetting” and that “we simply accepted the word of applicants” are overly broad and do not match up with how refugee screenings work.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/vetting-refugees-trump/544430/

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/29/us/refugee-vetting-process.html

    http://time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/

    Finally
    http://www.anklejive.com/Assets/ProductImages/NOTICE_WILL_TRADE_RACISTS_FOR_REFUGEES.jpg

  • Your description of one source of many I cited is as worthless as Montanagirl1’s .

    Its telling that the people who most criticize SPLC are the ones who actively support discrimination and bigoted rhetoric. So your opinion of them is of no consequence here. Of course you don’t like them.

    CIS is a hate group, they are not a source which is objectively credible. They have direct links to white supremacists. Its established fact. You saying “nyuh-huh” is not.

    Montanagirl1 melted down with a whole triggered rant demonstrating her outright bigotry against immigrants in general and took to repeating often used malicious fictions concerning them. I was right from the very beginning. Her view (and yours apparently) is just white supremacist nonsense.

  • Your conceit equating border security with bigotry/white supremacy/whatever, would be amusing, if only it weren’t so tiresome.

  • We are not discussing border security. Refugees are admitted to the country on our own accord. You are a fool spouting off a canned line. Conservatives always say “border security” when they are flustered and out of their depth on immigration issues.

    Fact is the conservative view of immigration and refugees is entirely informed by white supremacist nonsense. It’s tiresome to you because you are too lazy to educate yourself on he subject. And you are chiming in support of a poster who went off the rails with a long string of bigoted ranting on fictional issues. So again, your opinion in if itself here is worthless.

  • So you deny that refugees rape and murder citizens? Obviously you haven’t heard of Esar Met who murdered a Christian girl in Colorado. Guess that her death is just fiction, because you don’t like it? And the SPLC designating anyone as a hate group is simply laughable. They will label anyone, of any origin as a “hate” group because they don’t agree with their philosophy. (And by the way, exactly what is “hate” and who gets to define the term?) I and many others consider the SPLC a hate group in and of itself! So please what is it about my posts that sets you off? The FACT that they are true or the fact that you are some kind of weirdo who will defend corruption and high crimes because it fits your agenda? Nonsense about no-go zones in Sweden and France- it is a fact. Islam is the culture of hating anyone/anything that are not Muslim. Do you not read up on current events, such as Sweden turning to the right due to their importation of Islam into their country and the chaos it has caused? How about the thousands of girls and women raped by Pakistani Muslims in Rotherham, England?. Is that not a fact? How about the rapes of thousands of women in Cologne Germany on New Years Eve in 2015? More fiction? Sounds to me like you chose to be ignorant of those facts that don’t fit your pre-conceived world view. As to the refugee program, it should be terminated immediately and the close to a billion dollars it gives to agencies stopped until we can actually vet refugees from war torn countries with no documents. But I guess the death of a few Americans is of no importance to you-just keep the money flowing.

  • Very funny quoting the NYT as some kind of objective “source”. They gave away their soul for a few shekels decades ago and can’t find anything good to say about America or our president. Scientific American, really?

  • Hey Spud-
    In your previous posts you would not even admit that the State Dept spends our $$$ on bringing refugees here. At least you admitted that the “government” helps refugees out. Now if we could just get some of those $$$ to help American citizens instead of bringing in people who have no desire to assimilate or contribute, we might have something to talk about. And please, tell me how Mohammed with nine kids who doesn’t even speak our language is supposed to support them? Hint: Taxpayers pick up the tab.

  • White supremacist nonsense-sounds to me like YOU are the White Supremacist. The rest of us are talking about the Refugee Resettlement Program and you are calling anyone who disagrees a vile and ugly name. Can’t talk about the program, just spew hate towards those who disagree with you. Sounds like a typical lefty to me.

  • LOL! Said the person who cited a neo-nazi inspired anti-immigration group. Get bent!

    You are talking about fictitious crime waves and spouting ignorant rants about refugee vetting, and costs of resettlement. Nothing you said had a hint of factual support. You cited known liars with known white supremacist goals.

    You are annoyed at being called a bigot. But fact is, you are. You haven’t done a thing to show why my label for you is remotely untrue. You are not talking about the program in a sane or informed manner. You are spewing nonsense, lies and garbage demonizing a group of people for its own sake. If you don’t like being called a bigot, don’t be one, snowflake. I couldn’t care less whether you like reading it or not.

    According to your rants, anyone who isn’t setting up lynch mobs for refugees is a “lefty”. Whatever.

  • Hey bigot, learn about a subject first before spouting off. You really have no idea what you are talking about

    ” Now if we could just get some of those $$$ to help American citizens instead ”

    You fools OPPOSE sending money to help American citizens, who are you kidding. You aren’t contributing anything of value to the country. Calling any measure of the type “socialism!!!”. Sane people trying call it things like access to healthcare, education, living wages, enforcement of labor laws, and free markets. So who are you kidding here? This is not money being taken away from citizens. Our economy grows with immigration. It doesn’t grow by voting for politicians who kick tax money up to the uppermost wealthy as Right wingnuts love to do.

    American citizens like you seem hell bent on harming yourselves. You vote for people who outright harm your economic interests as long as they appeal to your prejudices. So you take it out on people who come here and are successful. Those refugees PAY BACK the money for repatriation and add to the economy in ways you are too dishonest to acknowledge.

    ” And please, tell me how Mohammed with nine kids who doesn’t even speak our language is supposed to support them? Hint: Taxpayers pick up the tab.”

    Hint, you are a bigot who doesn’t get that THESE PEOPLE WORK FOR A LIVING.

  • Even funnier are the ignorant dishonest derps who attack the NY Times, a long standing newspaper with a reputation for journalistic integrity, but cite studies by white supremacist liars as the basis of their argument.

    “can’t find anything good to say about America or our president”

    No honest person can. Plenty of liars, bigots and trollbots find things to say about the president which are good for them, but crappy for anyone else.

  • Yes, because you haven’t cited any source to that assertion and it is a common claim by ignorant bigots. Plus I cited various sources saying you were full of crap.

    Typically people like you they cite to a single incident and claim the entire community does such things. Exactly what a bigot does. All bad acts are collective responsibility if they involve a minority. When a white christian type does it, they are loners. Of course you even lied about the one anectdotal incident. Esar Met killed a girl who was also a refugee from the same community. Your entirely fictional “a christian girl” was meant as a hysterical bigoted inflection. Typical “(insert color here) Peril” nonsense.

    I have yet to see someone here who rags on the SPLC who did not also support groups anyone would objectively called hate groups. Typically it is the people calling for attacks on civil liberties of others, Using prejudiced languages, slurs, and lie about classes of people to demonize them. Bigots supporting hate groups don’t like SPLC. Color me surprised.

    Its not just them calling CIS out.
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/

    “CIS have been widely deemed misleading and riddled with basic errors by scholars on immigration; think tanks from across the ideological and political spectrum; media of all stripes; several leading nonpartisan immigration-research organizations; and by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ”

    THEY ARE LIARS. You are one too.

    Cologne New Years rape, MYTH
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cologne-sex-assaults-muslim-rape-myths-fit-a-neo-nazi-agenda-a6872566.html

    No Go Zones, MYTH
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sharia-law-muslim-no-go-zones/

    Sweden is the Rape Capital of Europe, MYTH
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

    You can’t point to a single example from American refuge communities of widespread crime. As I cited before, the cities which took in the most refugees HAD A DROP IN CRIME RATE. But you didn’t bother to read it.

    My bet is you have never seen an American Muslim community and just take garbage from hate sites at face value. I live in an area with one of the largest in the country. Nothing you are saying is even remotely like what I see every day.

    ” But I guess the death of a few Americans is of no importance to you-just keep the money flowing.”

    What deaths? Keep the money flowing? Meaning they are generating money and improving the economy? Doesn’t that contradict your nonsense about refugees being costly?

    I guess being a bigot and using a canned phrase means never having to make sense.

  • Planned parenthood was “founded” by advocates of the Eugenics movement which was extremely racist. So is Planned Parenthood a “hate group”? The claim that CIS is a hate group was vetted by Politifact and contrary to what Spuddie claims, the finding was NOT substantiated. The analysis described the evidence on both sides and there was no clear evidence that CIS currently operates as a hate group.

  • Go ask some random members of your American Muslim refugee community what they think about Jews. I think you will find them to be among the most anti-Semitic people currently living in the USA.

  • Wrong. You are citing a well known malicious fiction about PP. One commonly used by fetus worshipers to attack family planning efforts,

    https://rewire.news/article/2015/08/20/false-narratives-margaret-sanger-used-shame-black-women/
    “Anti-choicers wield misattributed and often outright false quotes about Sanger as weapons to shame Black women for exercising their right to choose, and even more nonsensically, to shame them for supporting Planned Parenthood.”

    Fetus worshipers have been known to even fabricate quotes about her.
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/margaret-sanger-weeds/

    None of that remotely changes the fact that CIS isn’t just founded by white supremacists, but serves its goals and flat out lies in services of them. All of which is well documented and referenced in various outside sources.

    You are a liar in service of bigots.

    BTW its telling that the right wing nut jobs make a big stink about sources I cite, but don’t link to any themselves. Jeff, your opinion of such matters is worthless fiction. I have no reason to take your statements at face value. Especially in light of my response to sources demonstrating how fictional these assertions are.

  • Probably better things than what you would say about them.

    Brooklyn’s “Little Baghdad” has existed next to a Haredi Jewish community for well over 70 years peacefully. In North/Central New Jersey it is not uncommon to find yeshivas and madrassas within blocks of each other. Journal Square Jersey City and Jackson Heights Queens have Muslim and Hindu communities , Indian and Pakistani communities entangled and mixed. Groups which are killing each other abroad are surprisingly good neighbors here.

    Thank you for confirming, I am responding to an ignorant fool.

  • I am not a “fetus worshipper” and ambivalent about abortion. However, the Eugenics movement was strong in the 1920s and Sanger was part of it. See
    http://time.com/4081760/margaret-sanger-history-eugenics/

    Sanger wrote: ““the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective.”

    You completely missed my point. It is wrong to condemn PP today based on what Sanger wrote in 1921 just as it is wrong to condemn CIS or anyone else who opposes liberal immigration from third world nations as being “racist” just because some extremist groups have similar views.

  • Muslim relations with Jews are okay as long as Jews accept their status as dhimmis. Muslims have great difficulty accepting Jews are no longer second-class citizens and generally (not all) rejected Jewish claims to Israel (or put another way, they reject the Judaeo-Christian interpretation of the Bible). Muslims may be getting along well with Jews in NY where both are distinct minorities but that doesn’t mean it would go very well for Jews if Muslims ever gained the ascendancy in the USA, even in a local community. Just look at what is happening in Europe where Muslims have local control.

    Your “good neighbors” theory is BS because it ignores the fact the Muslims lack the numbers (currently) to fundamentally change these communities.

  • You were giving me well worn anti-choice FICTIONAL screeds about Margret Sanger. Which btw are refuted by the article you are dishonestly citing out of context

    From your own linked source”
    “Much of the controversy stems from a 1939 letter in which Sanger outlined her plan to reach out to black leaders — specifically ministers — to help dispel community suspicions about the family planning clinics she was opening in the South”

    ” Sanger “uniformly repudiated the racist exploitation of eugenics principles.”

    “In 1966, Martin Luther King Jr. made clear that he agreed that Sanger’s life’s work was anything but inhumane. In 1966, when King received Planned Parenthood’s Margaret Sanger Award in Human Rights, he praised her contributions to the black community.”

    BTW it is entirely correct to condemn CIS. Your analogy is garbage. Not only are their origins based in white supremacy, they continue to further such goals. Even to the point of lying in service of them with phony studies that are criticized on the entire political spectrum by experts in the field. If you cite them, you are citing white supremacists, period.

    ” anyone else who opposes liberal immigration from third world nations as being “racist””

    THEY ARE! The opposition is ENTIRELY based on bigotry and is taken right from extremist group views. Even down to the same rhetoric In such opposition you are actually working towards the explicit goals of white supremacist extremists. Making you one in the same.

    All you are telling me is you are a bigot who agrees with white supremacist extremists but are too spineless to say so openly.

  • Everyone is “bigoted.” Ask Mexicans what they think of Salvadorans. Or ask Spanish Mexicans about Mestizos and Mulattos. There is nothing wrong with believing America should retain its general demographic mix. You could not dump 300 million Chinese into America suddenly and expect it would be the same culture or the same nation. Same if you dumped 300 million Muslims or even 300 million Central Americans/Mexicans (if there were that many). These are not radical or evil thoughts. They are just facts.

    Now you may say, good riddance to the old “white privileged” America and hello the America of the future. Maybe you should move to one of those nations which are already free of the evil “white privileged” people rather than try to convert America into a different nation.

    And don’t say America has always accepted immigrants. The fact is there is always a breaking point before the country is no longer the same country. What is left of Celtic culture in England after the Angles, Saxon and Norman invasions? Maybe that was an improvement, but I doubt America will improve if your policies are successful.

    No I don’t agree with “white supremacists” because the term “white” is too vague and is applied in arbitrary fashion. But I do think America has a unique culture/civilization and it is one of the best if not the best in the world the last 100 years.

  • By all means show evidence of that kind of behavior in American communities.

    You are talking out of your sphincter.

    Typical bigot who thinks they are an expert on a religion they despise and just rehashes crap from hate sites. You clearly have no contact with actual Muslim people or know what they believe and practice.

    You sound like every Neo-nazi when speaking about Jews, every SDA speaking about Catholicism, and Evangelicals discussing the LDS.

    “Muslims may be getting along well with Jews in NY where both are distinct minorities but that doesn’t mean it would go very well for Jews if Muslims ever gained the ascendancy in the USA”

    So now you create an excuse for why your screeds have no factual support in the real world.
    ..
    If you defend our Constitution and free way of life NO RELIGION gains ascendancy in the USA. Things would go badly for any religious minority if ANY religion gains ascendancy in the US.

    I suspect you are a theocrat who seeks or mistakenly believes Christianity has, or should be given an exaulted place in our government and privilege over others. Only someone truly contemptuous of our first amendment would posit that kind of argument in a serious manner.

    “Your “good neighbors” theory is BS because it ignores the fact the Muslims lack the numbers (currently) to fundamentally change these communities.”

    You are full of BS because you ignore facts.

  • No. Just people who give arguments such as “___ religion is evil and must be attacked under color of law”. Like you.

    “These are not radical or evil thoughts. They are just facts.”

    Those are not facts. They are evil expressions of bigotry. Not even very original ones.

    You are giving me garbage “(insert color here) Peril” arguments which were old and musty 100 years ago. The crap they said about EVERY immigrant group that has come to this country who weren’t white English Protestants.

    You wanted to talk about the Jews, you described the kind of garbage that encouraged our nation and Canada to send thousands of Jewish refugees away to their death during WWII rather than accept them here.
    [Google “SS St Louis”]

    “The fact is there is always a breaking point before the country is no longer the same country.”

    Again complete and utter bullcrap, nor borne by history of this nation in any way, shape or form. Our country has absorbed immigrants and refugees and made them part of our culture since inception.

    What culture are you protecting here? White Protestant majority. That’s it.

    You are nothing more than the new version of the same old anti-immigrant bigots who were all up in arms a few generations ago when people from East of the Rhine and South of the Alps were coming to this country.

    “No I don’t agree with “white supremacists” because the term “white” is too vague and is applied in arbitrary fashion”

    I don’t care if you disagree or not. You are giving me white supremacist arguments and agreeing with their position. You are giving me the American neo-nazi party line here.

    “But I do think America has a unique culture/civilization and it is one of the best if not the best in the world the last 100 years.”

    Yet you have shown me twice you despise what makes it great and unique.

  • I said 300 million Chinese, Mexicans or Muslims. How are you going to assimilate that? You are confusing limited immigration of compatible cultures with what I am talking about. In 200 years Muslims have played only a trivial role in this country. In every country in the world where Islam conquered the existing culture/civilization was radically destroyed/changed. That’s a fact. Same could be said of European Christian culture in the New World by the say, just so you don’t think I am just some crazy Islamophobe as you would no doubt say.

  • Islam is not just a religion It is a totalitarian geo-political movement. There is nothing like it among modern religions. It is similar to Christianity of the Middle Ages and later the Age of Exploration.

    I am not a theocrat. That is why I warn of dangers of Islamism taking hold in America. You sound like an atheist. I wonder why you would side with Muslims. It’s crazy. They are your worst enemy in the world. Maybe some Christians don’t want to host your gay weddings but the Muslims will throw you off a building. Atheism is apostasy of the worst kind to Muslims.

  • You are a weasel wording bigot trying to rehash old “Non White Non Protestant Immigrant Peril” arguments that were garbage a century ago.

    “Limited” being any and all immigration that comes up. Depending on when excuse you want to give at any conceivable moment.

    “Compatible Cultures” meaning white European Christian.

    Right now the greatest threat to our democracy are people who are claiming Christian culture is more important than freedom, civil liberties, and rule of law. People looking to attack our first amendment and deliberately target people for attack based on their religion. People like you.

    You betray our principles of freedom of religion out of fear and hatred. You keep calling nonsense rants facts when they are nothing more than skewed opi ions.

    You are more than an islsmaphobe, you are a terrorism enabling stooge. Attacking our system and buying into their propaganda.

  • Can you be a more cliched bigot here? No, it’s a religion. You’re just a hateful liar who wants to weasel out of his obvious contempt for freedom of religion.

    You aren’t even the first bigoted loser to use that line on this thread. You guys all work off the same stupid script.

    Let me be absolutely clear here. I do not take you seriously. You are not an expert or even a student of Islam or history.

    There is no reasonable argument saying , “___ religion is evil and we must treat its believers as enemies of humanity”. It is inherently nothing more then an expression of sectarian bigotry.

    You are doing exactly what terrorists want. You are their stooge.

  • CIS is not a neo-nazi group, much as you would wish it to be. To want to regulate immigration and refugees is not in any way “nazism” or were you sleeping during world history class? CIS and their compilations and stats come directly from the State Dept, is that neo-Nazi also? And just because you say something does not make it so! I am not a bigot at all and will not even bother to discuss or lend any weight to such a silly accusation. My point is that 9 religious and secular organizations resettle refugees and are paid by the head. If you disagree, I really don’t care, that’s reality. We all know it, apparently, except you. Go to the state department website and check it out for yourself. Of course, you’ll have to do some searching. I am not annoyed at all, just wondering why something so obvious and verifiable is so repugnant to you that you would call someone such ugly names. The truth of the matter is that refugee contractors are no more caring than any other peoples; they participate in a business model and have absolutely not a care as to what happens to the communities who are burdened with these people. They would fold up their tents tomorrow if the money dried up; indeed some agencies are entirely dependent on the federal gov and taxpayers to pay for their “charity”. I object strongly to organisations such as the Catholic Church, Jewish Social Services and other religious taking our money and pretending it’s from the “charity” of their hearts and congregations. And of course, they will not discuss the myriad of problems today,s Islamic refugees bring with them, and the social structure/religion Islam.

  • Couldn’t agree more Jeffrey. Islam is the problem and wherever Islam goes, trouble follows and not just a little bit. I guess Spuddie would have us believe that Islam is the religion of “peace”, when in fact it is exactly the opposite. I’m old enough to remember the history of Islam, it’s conquests, it’s violence against Christians and it’s unrelenting war on infidels. Mohammed conquered much of what we now know as the Middle East by the sword, killing those who would not convert. They make no secret of their dislike of Jews and Christians and nowhere will they even allow these groups to worship in Muslim-majority countries. Once they reach a certain percentage in a country, they demand Sharia law. When/if this happens it is pretty much over for the native population, whether they be Swede, Pakistanis, Turks or any form of religion except Islam.

  • And you need to wake up to the dangers of Islam and unfettered open borders. How anyone could be so naive about refugees and immigration is hard to believe. And calling people “terrorists”, etc. only makes you seem unhinged.

  • Why is it that millions of Muslims want to leave their Muslim paradises (states) and move to the lands of the infidels, but almost no one wants to go live in a Muslim nation? Spuddie, you care to move to Gaza maybe? No, that’s not fair, you can pick one. But just keep your atheism to itself.

  • We are most certainly discussing border security. Brain dead far-leftist useful idiots like yourself always start in with their name calling -“white supremacist” “racist”, etc. – in order to shut down discussion, and hide the fact that they themselves have no sound and valid arguments to make. You use that tactic again and again in the deluded notion that you are actually saying something, but it reveals that you’ve got nothing and your words are always the verbal equivalent of diarrhea.

    Fact is you understand squat about the conservative view of immigration due to your leftist/progressive brainwashing – although I hesitate to use the term “brainwashing” because I have grave doubts that they even have brains. They certainly don’t know how to use them!

    I have no problem with admitting a predetermined number of valid political refugees in accordance with the laws of our land, and the safety of our citizens – two considerations which far-lefties like yourself care nothing about.

  • The New York Times has sunk to the swamp level and now is only read by far leftists to get their daily dose of hate. The NYT is now a laughable left wing mouthpiece that continues to destroy our country by aiding and abetting fake news. The NYT sold it’s soul to the left and is not even fit to call itself real news. Defending this hate as normal is one of the pathologies of the left. But go ahead, keep reading this bird cage liner as if it represents anyone or anything other than it’s ugly racists self. Just sayin!

  • LOL! You have not linked to one source to back up the myriad of bullcrap you have slung. You go into wild rants about fictional things you read online from hate group sources . Yet I am supposed to take your opinion about a long standing newspaper with a long history of professional reporting seriously? Nope. Not even going to be close.

    You already showed yourself to be either ignorant or dishonest as hell as well as a raving frothing at the mouth bigot. Your opinion on any given source is worthless.

  • No, dummy. Refugees are admitted to our country by our government. They are vetted prior to even getting to immigration entry points. Border Security is not the same thing. Border Security agents aren’t involved in the process. YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. You ignorant nativist types always scream “border security” when you are out of your depth on the subject of immigration. This is no exception.

    Name calling is perfectly appropriate when it is true. White Supremacy and racism inform your views of immigration. White supremacists are even setting the tone of your arguments here, Your distaste for the label is not a refutation of it. Your views are reprehensible and ignorant, it deserves a descriptive label which fits it. You can complain about being called a bigot, but it doesn’t make the label incorrect or inappropriate here.

    I have yet to talk to a conservative who even knew basic facts about the immigration system and laws. Yet they all feel the need to chime in with their opinions on the subject. They don’t even bother to do the most basic research on the subject and always get facts wildly wrong. As every conservative here has done. You are no exception. The explanation for such vehemence coupled with willful ignorance is that bigotry informs their views.

    “I have no problem with admitting a predetermined number of valid political refugees in accordance with the laws of our land, and the safety of our citizens”

    Yes you do, hence you chiming in on the subject. Our current reduction of refugees here has nothing to do with safety of our citizens. The Trump Administration has nothing to do with safety of our citizens or justifiable fears. Our own State Department called the president a liar over it.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/31/world/americas/state-dept-dissent-cable-trump-immigration-order.html

    https://www.thenation.com/article/the-xenophobic-lie-behind-trumps-ban-on-syrian-refugees/
    (Who am I kidding you aren’t going to read those links. Facts do not interest you)

    It all has to do with refugees being non-white and non-protestants. I said it in my first post here. I have been vindicated by the responses I am getting.

  • LOL! Now you are trying to make excuses for White Supremacy being a perfectly normal and not at all reprehensible point of view? How funny. Nope. Not even going to pretend to take you seriously here,

  • You mean to say the dangers of religious freedom of our 1st Amendment, rule of law, and fictional takes on immigration issues. Why do you hate our free way of life so much?

    “Open borders” is what conservative nativist bigots shout when they are flustered want to make up arguments about opponents. Arguments which nobody actually ascribes to.

    You oppose freedom of religion, seeking to have Muslims separated from our democratic society and treated as a hostile population. You claim ISIS represents the rightful beliefs of 1.6 Billion Muslims. Just what ISIS believes and works towards. What a coincidence! You are by definition supporting the aims and goals of ISIS. You are a stooge for terrorists.

    I am not the one in a panic over FAKE dangers, deliberately phony accounts and lies given by our president that his own State Department called him out on. Our own experts in government are calling your view bullcrap. The ones whose job it is to evaluate these dangers.
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-draft-dissent-channel-memo-trump-refugee-and-visa-order

  • Yes, they are. Founded by a neo-nazi, furthering their goals, and lying in service of them.

    CIS’s studies are thoroughly rejected as phony, badly done and deliberately dishonest. I already quoted how they are not considered a legitimate source.
    https://www.wired.com/2017/01/fake-think-tanks-fuel-fake-news-presidents-tweets/

    They also tend toward hate: …and a whole slew of groups fixated on immigration. Three of the biggest—Federation for American Immigration Reform, the Center for Immigration Studies, and NumbersUSA—are intertwined, all connected in their origins to white nationalist John Tanton.

    The Cato Institute excoriated a 2015 CIS report that exaggerated immigrant use of welfare by omitting crucial data. As Alex Norwath put it, “the CIS study does not compare apples to apples but rather apples to elephants.” In 2016, the Cato Institute found that a different CIS report on immigrant welfare use “lacks any kind of reasonable statistical controls.”
    https://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-exaggerates-immigrant-welfare-use
    https://www.cato.org/blog/cis-exaggerates-cost-immigrant-welfare-use

    The Cato Institution is a right wing think tank. The Koch Brothers. Even they are calling CIS a bunch of liars.

    BTW, I have yet to see a single link to an outside source to support your views. You are clearly used to arguing in an echo chamber where people take bullcrap assertions at face value.

    “My point is that 9 religious and secular organizations resettle refugees and are paid by the head.”

    A point not verified by any objective source. CIS, Breitbart, and WND are all over that. But none of those sources are worth a pile of crap.
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/world-net-daily-wnd/
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/breitbart/
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/

  • Islam IS evil and we must not import it’s evil into America. What other structure relegates women to second class status and treats them like chattel? What other quasi-religious group has it in their own religious books to kill those who do not convert? And carry it out in the 21st Century? What other group shouts “Death to America”, but want to come here as refugees to destroy us from within? I really don’t care about you either, Spuddie, and your comments are laced with hatred for those who don’t toe the line. I don’t care to be an expert, but a well-read and disciplined thinker. As for you, never seen such hatred of those who don’t think like you do. You are extremely uninformed; and think that somehow you know something; you know nothing and that will get us all into trouble. The Refugee Program is corrupt to the core; and should be completely eliminated; there is no sane reason to bring people here who cannot be vetted and wish us ill. A recipe for disaster, please see England, Sweden, Italy, etc.

  • Your opinion on any given religion isn’t worth a pile of dog crap.

    You are just making it clear, this is all about sectarian bigotry and nothing else. You have no regard for our first amendment, rule of law or basic principles of our democratic government. You are willing to lie and depend on liars to further your prejudices here.

    There is no circumstances or argument which can he reasonably made, that our government must discriminate against an entire class of people on the basis of their religious belief. It doesn’t matter who the people are or what faith they have.

    “What other structure relegates women to second class status and treats them like chattel?”

    The Republican Party and its evangelical supporters.

    “What other quasi-religious group has it in their own religious books to kill those who do not convert? ”

    Same answer. As what are you proposing we do to Muslims in our country?

    Panicky dishonest ignorant bigots like yourself are great stooges on behalf of ISIS. You accept their propaganda about representing all 1.6 billion Muslims, you further their goals of attacking our democratic and free way of life, you demand Muslim’s be isolated from free society. Perfect for recruiting and support networks.

    You are doing exactly what terrorists want and you are too stupid and hateful to realize it.

    You dont know squat about the refugee program, you have been giving me nothing but dishonest rehashed white supremacist talking points. Your posts are useless ill informed garbage. Terrorists love the crap you are slinging.

    Have fun helping ISIS. You have nothing to say worth reading.

  • Liar. I know many American Muslims. They want to live in a democracy and have religious freedom. They want to get along with others of different religions. Your ignorance is showing JW.

  • ah, their readership goes up and up as, along with the Washington Post and LA Times, etc. the last bastions against FUX News and the Rush Limbaugh’s of the world stand above the Garbage GOP and Agent Orange in the White House.

  • So why was it that White Protestant Europeans like your ancestors left their Christianity dominated paradise to come to the US?

    Funny thing is I don’t find people living in any developing world dictatorship really like it there and love to come here. Religion not being much of a distinguishing factor.

    I am not here to defend Islam or any religion. I couldn’t care less what religion someone has, nor do I ever have to care. I am here to oppose bigotry and ignorance coming from derps like you. To uphold our free way of life. Something you have no regard for. Anyone who decries freedom of religion as dangerous or a “suicide pact” has no place in this country. They are nothing but stooges for terrorists.

    “But just keep your atheism to itself.”

    Get bent bigot. Your sectarian hate is laughable garbage. Our country doesn’t need it.

  • Montanagirl1 and Jeffrey Wilens don’t sound like they have even seen American Muslims, let alone know what they believe.

  • “So why was it that White Protestant Europeans like your ancestors left their Christianity dominated paradise to come to the US?”

    It was for the tobacco.

  • I see you are still in your “Everyone who disagrees with me on immigration and border security is a racist, a white supremacist, and they also steal candy from babies” bubble. Your delusion is a hard one for many to overcome.

  • I see you are still a snowflake who complains about labels being used to describe you and your position, but does nothing to show it is inappropriate or untrue.

    Fact is, conservatives are almost entirely following white supremacist arguments and using appeals to bigotry on this subject. Your pathetic whining hasn’t demonstrated otherwise.

    I already have delt with three triggered fools who went into long rants about why our first amendment religious freedom is a “suicide pact”. Rabid, frothing at the mouth with malicious fictions and inherently bigoted screeds.

    Your argument is just plain stupid. If you don’t like being called a bigot, don’t follow bigoted views. Prove my label was incorrect.

    Otherwise, tough luck, truth hurts. Your thin skin is not a refutation here.

    BTW you have done nothing here but show your ignorance on the subject.

  • In the case of the article you linked to, my use of the words “racist” and “anti-Semitic” were purely descriptive.

  • Puddie: “Bigot! Racist! White supremacist!”

    Like his mentor Goebbels, Puddie thinks that: “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.”

  • The meaning is in the duplication of talk, i.e., double talk. Under the surface of the words, it is chalk full of meaning, hence the double talk.

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