Episcopalians vote to let gay couples wed in churches

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Thousands of members seated in a hall in at the General Convention of the Episcopal Church, USA.

Reuters

Thousands attend the General Convention of the Episcopal Church in Salt Lake City, Utah June 28, 2015. The General Convention of the Episcopal Church is held every three years in different cities around the country. REUTERS/Jim Urquhart

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SALT LAKE CITY (Reuters) Under the new rules, clergy can opt out of performing gay marriage ceremonies.

  • Eric

    “And the greatest of these is love.”

  • JCF

    Thanks be to God! 😀

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  • bqrq

    Everything that goes on in the so-called episcopal “church” revolves around sodomy. That is the reason people go there, and that is the reason why others don’t go there. They congregate on Sunday morning, bring in the children and teach them to reject Christian moral values and embrace all forms of sexual immorality. Episcopalians teach young children that is normal and morally righteous to practice homosexuality and fornication as soon as they reach the legal age of consent. These reprobates employ various Christian words and symbols to re-enforce their indoctrination.

  • Ro Na

    Matthew 7:13-23 and Romans 1:18-32 plus 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 also Luke 13
    all need to be taught. The Bible is the Truth/the Word of God. We must Repent!

  • “Love God” – JESUS (Matthew 22:37)
    But how?
    “Follow God’s laws!” – JESUS (Matthew 5:17)

    Which laws matter?
    ALL OF THEM!
    “I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW” – JESUS

    “Kill Homosexuals” – Yahweh (Leviticus 20:13)

    We do not need religion to know right from wrong. Religion, God and Jesus are poison darts.

  • Greg1

    Maybe they should lose their tax exempt status.

  • pete

    now youre talking

  • Doc Anthony

    Christians, it is time to leave the Episcopal Church. Period. I know church unity is important to you, but enough is enough. Time to go.

    When a church abandons God and Scripture, it’s time to abandon that church. That’s neither easy nor painless, but it’s better than staying on board the Titanic. You saw the movie, didn’t you? So find a lifeboat and leave the Episcopal Church. Do it NOW !

  • AKHF

    Clergy in the Episcopal Church have always had the right to refuse to marry any couple. This is not new for gay and lesbian couples.

  • Larry

    Oh no! They won’t hate the way I want them to! Burn the heretics!

    In 20 years the religious right will be pretending they supported marriage equality all along. The revisionism is already starting.

  • Larry

    Oh no! They won’t hate the way I want them to! Burn the heretics!

    In 20 years the religious right will be pretending they supported marriage equality all along.

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  • JR

    The Episcopal Church cannot be viewed as a Christian sect any longer.People forget that “Christian” is not an adjective meaning kind, loving, and merciful. It is a noun, meaning a follower of Christ, the Son of God. With all we know about Christ, God, His Word, and the Tradition of His Church, can anyone truly imagine Him blessing a marriage that is not a marriage? I think not.

  • Larry

    And this is why you can’t be taken seriously on the subject of religious freedom. 🙂

  • Larry

    ““Christian” is not an adjective meaning kind, loving, and merciful.”

    Because Jesus didn’t know what he was talking about. Amirite?

    All that “love thy neighbor”, “judge not lest ye be judged”, “motes and planks”, “blessed are the meek”, its all just noise. Nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever. OK. Whatever.

  • Shawnie5

    “Burn the heretics!”

    No need for that. Just do what He said to do: “Shake off the dust,” and move on.

    “In 20 years the religious right will be pretending they supported marriage equality all along.” Maybe about as much as we’ve claimed the abortion mess 40 years later. Thanks but no thanks.

  • Be Brave

    Max the Mud Pie man,

    There is no such thing as “right and wrong” in materialism. Just an unguided universe moving somehow by itself causing it to move.

    Whatever happens is simple random impulses driving the soulless hair-deprived higher ape to do whatever its mind compels it to do.

    Do the math dude.

    Your worldview and opinions comes from a delusion at best. You may be able to mimic Godliness but denying it makes your mind even more warped than it is. Unless of course you’re right, in which case there are no rules anyway. Star dust cannot reason. It just reacts to movement or no movement. But “right and wrong?” Doesn’t exist in an unguided universe.

    You are dangerously close to being a materialist hypocrite. Be careful or you just might have to recognize your soul. By reason.

  • Be Brave

    Little g. god:

    Thanks be to the god these apostates have chosen to replace God.

    They have chosen the wide path and it isn’t the one paved by Christ Jesus who defined marriage in abject opposition to these religionists in some episcopalian gay club somewhere.

  • Ted

    Evangelical hatred from a small and nasty voice.

  • Be Brave

    bqrq,

    I disagree with you. They go there for their haughtiness. That is why they call it gay pride.

    They have replace the truth for a lie. Not only do they embrace sin and sinning, but encourage those that do. Just as they did in Paul’s day.

    History ignored is history repeated.

    As Jude points out, we can see these people for who and what they are. They are gay activists and nothing more.

  • Ted

    Why leave a church which actually practices God’s mercy, rather than beat and condemn people with Pharisaic rules which ignore Christ’s message to love?

  • Ted

    Of course, if you are just another evangelical Pharisee looking to have your bigotries reinforced, you won’t find much comfort in the Episcopal church. There are too many adults there trying to actually practice what they preach.

  • Ted

    Silly Pharisees. You think you own Christ.

  • Garson Abuita

    Am I to understand that the Episcopal Church approved a same-sex marriage liturgy 3 years ago, but only this week approved conducting it in their churches? And the “Pharisees” are the ones that get called legalistic…

  • Larry

    But you can’t, can you?

    You guys have to hurl your petty little epithets and bare your fangs. Make bold pronouncements that they are “not really Christians”, because they chose not to follow you guys in your bigotry.

    As for 20 years from now, its a reference to how the religious right pretends to take credit for the Civil Rights Movement of the 50’s and 60’s despite being a group formed out its opposition. Revisionism has always had a place among reactionary Christians.

  • Ted

    Until this, the Episcopal Church had a “separate but equal” blessing for same sex couples. Which was a far greater step towards simply loving God and neighbor than the Pharisaic evangelical hatred and bigotry bubbling like lava throughout this site and the nation this week.

  • Shawnie5

    Larry, you need to spend less time in the atheist fun-house and visit the real world. I can assure you that, should I find it necessary to leave the UMC in the future, it will be quietly and regretfully, with no “fangs” featured in the picture at all.

    Of course I know what you were referring to, in your characteristically myopic vision of Christianity in re abolitionism/human rights. It’s a story that is millenia old, not a handful of decades.

  • Larry

    I doubt you will do anything of the sort “quietly”. You are far too invested in pretending to speak for the entire faith to be so humble.

    I can’t help it if you guys reserve your nastiest, most spiteful language for fellow Christians. Sectarian animosity has always been a major element to the Christian faith.

  • Be Brave

    Ted,

    Really?

    You seem to have a very large and nasty mouth.
    And of course, just like the society in which the Christians came out of, you echo the same perspectives as those reprobates.

    You guys have never changed.

  • Be Brave

    How mean of you addressing your atheists and LGBT pals that way Larry. But yes, of course they (and you) should stay out of Christian issues.

  • Be Brave

    Larry,

    History has already shown us that The Church has dealt with this evil and rejected it over and over again. Because it is based squarely in the demonic, it will never take over The Church.

    Read Justin Martyrs first apologia. Read down into the chapters til you get to his writings on Antinous ( a gay spouse of hadrian’s). And the chapter before that details that homosexuals and homosexuality is/are antithetical to Christian life. In 20-years, as the depravity of homosexuality has ravaged the apostate churches, this evil will be right back where it always comes from. Outside of Christian life.

    You can hate us as did the ancient depraved populace. It’s no big deal.

  • Gloria

    It’s WAY beyond the churches allowing it. The SCOTUS thinks they know better than God. Do you know what kind of jammed up courts we’re going to have over lawsuits? Churches won’t do it, pastors, reverends, priests won’t do it. And they will all be sued.

    I’m American Indian and I’m moving back to my reservation because they don’t have to pay attention to this evil law.

  • Gary Niblock

    Bqrq, I invite you to attend an Episcopal mass on Sunday morning. Then and there you will prove to yourself how wrong you are.

  • Gary Niblock

    Jesus hung out with many an apostate Jew. He himself was condemned as an apostate by the leaders and priests of the Temple and Sanhedrin, etc. It’s hard to imagine that Jesus didn’t heal and bless the apostates he laughed, drank and partied with. He came to change the status quo. He had the courage to do so, as does the Episcopal Church today. Jesus represented and died for the justice and equality Jesus lauded as the “Kingdom Of God”. Love wins! He showed us a better way. Thousands of years of misguided theology will never change that.

  • Ro Na

    Ted-Preaching against sin is not being a Pharisee! Read Romans 1:18-32
    and 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 plus Matthew 7:13-23 also Luke 13. God bless.

  • Ro Na

    Gary Niblock-J esus did not party! The wine He made was new wine and
    was highly diluted/made for symbolic reason not to get drunk! John 2:10
    says the cheap wine was brought out last so the best for last refers to a
    watered down/poorer/highly diluted new wine. Ephesians 5:18 says don’t
    get drunk on wine for it is debauchery also/plus 1 Corinthians 6:10 says
    all drunkards go to hell. Bible also says don’t get drunk on strong wine!
    Read 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 plus Romans 1:18-32 also Luke 13 and
    also read in Matthew 7:13-23 as well/too. We all must Repent/change!

  • Ro Na

    Gary Niblock- Read 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 plus Romans 1:18-32 also read
    in Luke 13 and Matthew 7:13-23 cause if we say one sin is okay and no sin
    is okay which 1 Corinthians 5 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 and Romans 1:18-32
    make very,very clear. Luke 13 says Repent or perish! We all must Repent!

  • Shawnie5

    He called those apostates sinners in need of repentance, and Himself the doctor to the sick. The difference was that those apostates saw themselves for what they were and repented. The others, the conventionally righteous, saw no reason to repent and therefore missed the opportunity for forgiveness.

    He healed and blessed alright, and left the healed with the warning: “Stop sinning, or something worse may happen to you.” John 5:14.

  • Augustinian

    Your wise post prods me to add my own testimony:
    Long before the hip leadership of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) took upon themselves to redefine orthodox sexual mores, I departed the ELCA , the church body that had baptized, confirmed and frankly imparted me with a catholic [small c] understanding of the Christian faith. Since the swinging 60s the once Christ-centered ELCA marketed itself as a prophetic sounding board for the leftist policies of the Democrat Party. Nuclear disarmaments & freezes, women’s “reproductive health” issues, racial & ethnic quotas, race card-mania, a zealous LGBT advocacy, open borders, redistribution of wealth —-You name it and they were out there painting a pious veneer onto some very thorny secular movements. Jesus morphed into some sort of barefoot Marxist hawking “social justice”. But the membership of Liberal Protestant bodies is in a stampede—right out the door. Bad karma perhaps?

  • Augustinian

    When Jesus forgave the woman in John 8 (who was about to be stoned for adulterous affairs), he simply dismissed her with “Go and sin no more.” He did not say: “Well, the rules are harsh and impersonal and don’t account for poor women like you. Let’s open a focus group on adultery laws and determine why they are used to condemn folks unjustly.”
    “If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.”

  • Ro Na

    Many today don’t want to change so they create/make a false god/idol to
    suit themselves which is called idolatry and all idolaters go to hell. Jesus
    told people to Repent/change their heart about sin. The Cross is perfect
    example because two guys were next to Jesus on the Cross and only one
    guy went to heaven because only one guy Repented/had a change of the
    heart about his sin. Luke 13 says Repent or perish! We all must Repent!
    Preachin against sin is not being a Pharisee or legalism. We must Repent!

  • Ted

    More evangelical hatred from another small and nasty voice.

    Christ lives. Love lives. Hate dies.

  • Ted

    Love God. Love your neighbor. Judge not.

    Pharisees swing Bible quotes like a club, to hurt those they find different.

  • JR

    Henry VIII, the founder of the Anglican/Episcopal Church, broke from God’s law to marry his whore, so why should it surprise us now that sodomites can marry in his “church”? Even Kings can be Queens now, I guess. Nothing is what it is anymore…all definitions are meaningless. Call me Caitlyn.

  • “No such thing as right and wrong in materialism”

    How did you determine this? All evidence clearly demonstrates morality comes from material.

  • Shawnie5

    Indeed. An atheist’s opinion about what course any church ought to take is about as helpful as my input would be at my husband’s next engineering conference call.

  • Greg1

    Larry, I’m trying to keep up with you in terms of not being taken seriously. But really, Gay “marriage” is nothing more than a civil union between two men or other, and for a church to accept “civil” marriage, is to no longer be a “religious” institution. So their tax exempt status should be revoked.

  • Greg1

    Amen Gloria, and Glory to the King.

  • Greg1

    Love “Agape” is better translated as charity. In other words, give, help, etc. But Christians can never accept “Love” (Eros: erotic love) of neighbor. You need to know your Greek Larry.

  • Greg1

    As you said, JR, “And if anyone will not welcome you or listen to your message, shake the dust off your feet as you leave that house or that town.” Matthew 10:14.

  • Greg1

    Gary, external beauty does not always translate to internal beauty. Oftentimes a beautiful piece of fruit is cut open only to be found rotten inside. So don’t be fooled by superficial elements of the episcopal mass; it is fidelity to Christ that must subsist beneath the surface. They say the devil is beautiful at first sight, as well, until you begin to look a little closer.

  • Greg1

    Yes, when we die, we will be immediately Judged: St. Paul refers to this eye opening judgment in 1Cor 13:12: “For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.” So the three theological virtues will remain when we receive our glorified bodies, everything else is burned away (1Cor 3:5). And the greatest is “Love,” but as is the case in most all of our Lord’s teachings the Greek word Agape is used here. And that word differs from Philos (brotherly love), Eros (erotic love), it instead is best translated as Charity. So all of our compassionate work will forever be etched into our eternal person. As for equating Agape with homosexual attraction, is simply an
    English language thing, where one word (Love), is generic for all three Greek words, and leads a person to the wrong conclusion.

  • Gene

    Yes, indeed, I would like to trust the world’s morals to the minds and hearts of atheists (as I was one of them at one time). Let’s se . . . Pol Pot, Mao Zidong, Kim Jong, Stalin, Mussolini . . . need we go on?

  • Gene

    Yes, “Biblical” marriage, where women are cattle and property, and you can marry your slave. Just what jesus had in mind,

  • Gene

    I feel so sorry for people like this. Attached to their myths and misinterpretations of the world and religion. The Bible has 66 books, 1189 chapters, 31,102 verses, and 807,361 words — and 6 or 7 mentions, most ambiguous in meaning or misinterpreted, of ‘homosexuality’ . . . and zero from Jesus the Christ. However, Jesus wasn’t ambiguous: “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another” (John 13: 34). Consider all the many, many passages and proscriptions in scriptures that you already sensibly disregard and use the mind you’ve been given,

    These brief but much quoted passages are by no means clear and would have been lost amid the enormity of wider Biblical narratives were it not for a determined anti-homosexual agenda.

    Your thinking has already passed in the civilized mind. And our morals are so far beyond your hatred and ignorance. Thank goodness the grace of God is still available to you. Perhaps you will…

  • Gene

    Thank goodness many American Indian tribes have already approved of equal marriage.

    Nearly all mainline churches have or will approve of equal marriage rights soon.

    The grace of God is string today, and ignorance of what the Bible really sys is lessening. Thanks be for th Episcopal church.

  • Ted

    Mercy, compassion, and love are beautiful. The Episcopal Church is demonstrating these by its actions. By its willingness to treat everyone as a beloved child of God. Because we are, all of us, just that.

  • Ted

    Amen.

  • Ted

    The demon is hate. Please look to your own.

    Pride, anger, lust, envy, greed, avarice, sloth. Look to your own. Love God, love your neighbor, judge not, and pray for mercy.

    The demon is yours. Look to your own.

  • Ted

    Perhaps you should try a bit of Matthew 7:1 ….

  • Ben in oakland

    Sure.

    Torquemada, Savanarola, Pope Pius VI, Pope Innocent, cotton Mather, the holy rollers of ISIS, the holy rollers of Boko Haram, Eritrea’s Afewerki, Ferdinand and Isabella, the witch burners, the heretic burners, the entire Christian Church for 1950 years of official anti-Semitism, American evangelicals in Uganda and Nigeria, both sides of the 200 odd years of Catholic versus Protestant, and and and and and and

  • Ben in oakland

    If you actually thought that, there wouldn’t be a problem, would there?

  • Ben in oakland

    “It’s WAY beyond the churches allowing it.” Except for all the churches and entire denominations that do.

    “The SCOTUS thinks they know better than God.” they never said so.

    “Do you know what kind of jammed up courts we’re going to have over lawsuits?” Absolutely none, of course.

    “Churches won’t do it, pastors, reverends, priests won’t do it.’ Of course, except for all of the ones that do.

    “And they will all be sued..” Hasn’t happened, cannot happen, and if it did, this gay atheist would be standing right next to even the likes of homo-hating Christians, defending their right to believe and practice their faith as they will.

    As for going back to the reservation?

  • Greg1

    Ted, that would be true if they invited gay people to the church, asked them to become members, and encouraged them to change their lives so to conform with Christ. But when they flip Truth on its head, and embrace evil, then that is no longer Charitable Love, but to champion iniquity.

  • Greg1

    Ben, everything has a spillover effect, that does more than what is summarized in simple statements. The court’s decision on this is deep, wide, and voluminous. It will resonate throughout history, and into eternity. This is right up there with Abortion.

  • Fmr Cath

    @Gene and all others, what about these verses is ambiguous?
    1 Corinthians 6:9-11a 9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you WERE…. (repentance implied) meaning the aforementioned behavior (homosexual acts) did NOT continue once these people became Christians.
    1 Timothy 1:9-10 9 recognizing that law is made, not for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, ungodly and sinners, disloyal and profane, murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, manslayers, 10 sexually immoral people, men who practice homosexuality, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and everything else that is in OPPOSITION to the wholesome teaching…

  • Greg1

    Gene read Matthew 19:1-12 before making statements about what Jesus taught on marriage.

  • Greg1

    Fmr, they will only tell you that that is what “Paul” taught. Or they will try to twist Truth from the clear and obvious, to the murky and distorted. Good luck; it is only when they meet Christ will they see who was coaching them.

  • @Gene,

    Your list of supposed Atheists is a complete failure.
    Messianism is a religion.

    Atheists do not believe in gods.
    Lack of belief in God does not lead people to become messiahs.

    “All dictatorships are Theocracies” – George Orwell

  • Greg1,

    Read Leviticus 20:13 before making statements about not killing gays.

  • Ted,

    Does Christ live in a place where he cannot help anyone?
    Lots of people died of starvation while they were praying to him this year.

    You must admit Christ’s sense of humor is very cruel.
    Or acknowledge he doesn’t exist.

  • Larry

    It still doesn’t help you here Greg1. There is no charity in showing malice. In treating others uncharitably.

    You can’t polish that turd of pretending prejudice and animosity is the same thing as love.

  • Larry

    Hey Greg1, Shawnie, and BB, I can’t help it if you guys are so deranged by your sectarian animosity that you advocate denying another church its very existence.

    Its obvious to you guys “religious freedom” means license for fundamentalist Christians only.

    As much trash as you talk about atheists, I never talk about denying tax exempt status for one church and not another. In fact unlike you hateful nabobs, I have actually defend the need for such status for all churches/houses of worship.

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