Bursting my personal bubble in a church full of Trump supporters

A woman prays in the room with Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump during a church service at the International Church of Las Vegas on Oct. 30, 2016. Photo courtesy of Reuters/Carlo Allegri

PHOENIX (RNS) As a reporter who covers atheism and nonbelievers, I’m not often inside a church on Sunday morning. But on the weekend after an election that left me feeling more than a little bruised and scared, I felt a driving need for some healing, reconciliation and a good dose of hope.

My husband and I were away from home, visiting suburban Phoenix. So on Sunday, while he knocked around a tennis ball, I sought out a local church to visit not as a reporter in search of a story, but as a civilian in need of some balm for a very banged-up, frightened spirit.

I deliberately picked a nearby evangelical church because I wanted to reach out beyond the Methodist circle I have been a part of. I got there before the opening worship music started and looked about. I liked what I saw — blacks, whites, Latinos all mixing together, greeting each other with what I recognized as “the kiss of peace” common to many Christians. There were multigenerational families, lone older men and women and young couples with babies.

The service was opened by a young woman who said, “I feel like reality hit me very hard this week and I feel blessed to be able to come to a church where I can worship freely, no matter what.” She then launched into a lovely song of praise. Great, I thought. My kind of place.

Then the pastor, a man who appeared to be in his early 30s, introduced the guest preacher — an 87-year-old woman who mentored him in his rise through the church. How great is this, I thought! At this historic moment, this evangelical church is giving its pulpit over to a woman, one who will give us some perspective and advice.

And she did. The title of her sermon, she informed us, was “Make Jesus Great Again.” She then described Donald Trump as a “godly man” who is “God’s instrument” and “a miracle” — proof, she said, that a country can “only wallow in sin so long” before God sends a savior. The congregation punctuated her words with scattered “amens” and a couple of “hallelujahs” and, as I looked about me, I noticed that many people — blacks, whites and Latinos — were nodding their heads in agreement. “I know,” she said to the congregation of about 80 people, “nobody in this church voted the other way. You’re too nice.”

Well, she was wrong. I voted “the other way.” At first, I thought, “I’m leaving. I don’t have to listen to this.”

Then I said to myself, “No, this is what you should be listening to. This is what we missed — so many of us, reporters, everyone I know. We missed THIS. And it’s huge.”

But I only lasted through another 10 minutes of triumphalism, gloating and intolerance. Not one word I heard come out of the preacher’s mouth was a word Jesus would have said. I left, more broken and in need of solace than I was when I went in.

How did we get to this place? How did we become so focused on our own ideas of what America ought to be that we — both Trump and Clinton supporters — missed each other’s howls of pain, cries for help and wailing of grievances? Can we ever get back from where we are now to a more unified country?

As an eternal Pollyanna, I would like to think so. But I left that church last Sunday feeling rebuked, rejected and foolish for thinking that by staying to hear the America I and many other reporters missed, ignored or wrote off, I would find some common ground, some way to hurt less. I did not.

I know that as a San Francisco Bay Area resident, I live in a big, shiny, Berkeley-tinted bubble. But I did not realize how big and completely imprisoning that bubble was until the moment the preacher said no one in this church could possibly have voted “the other way.” Go ahead, call me naive. But my personal bubble burst right then — exploded might be a better word — and for the rest of our trip I found myself staring at people in restaurants, in the rental car office, on the plane. Were they so far away from me, so utterly different, even as we seemed so close?

Later, I emailed the pastor, with whom I had chatted amiably just before the service about San Francisco, where he has family. I said never, in 25 years of visiting churches, temples, mosques, synagogues and madrassas from New York City to Pakistan had I heard anything so hurtful in my life. And because I don’t want to feel that way, I left him my name, my number and my email address to hear his side of the story, anytime. I still believe we might find a way to hear each other.

He has not called me. He has not emailed me. And I have no plans to return to a church in anything but a professional role again.

(Kimberly Winston is a national reporter for RNS) 

About the author

Kimberly Winston

Kimberly Winston is a freelance religion reporter based in the San Francisco Bay Area.


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  • I am so sorry for your experience. As a pastor myself, I am embarrassed at the naivete of the pastor to give the pulpit to a novice on such a tense weekend. He should definitely call you back and apologize. And I am embarrassed of the arrogance and belittlement the preacher somehow thought was the word of God.

  • “And I have no plans to return to a church in anything but a professional role again.” Then it is your loss. First of all, you shouldn’t expect much from a female pastor. They were/are prohibited in Christian circles.
    Trump is a mere man – a sinner – no better than you or I, but also, no worse.
    God is responsible for who was elected. If you need scripture, I can cite it. God put Trump in that position. Now, it is up to Trump whether he will be a godly man, and whether he will allow himself to be God’s instrument. God could even use you, if you let Him.

  • I do hope you only meant you would not attend THAT church, and not to exclude attendance at all churches. I can only speak to my own experience, but the Episcopal Church has made it it’s mission to welcome ALL people. It’s not just a message, it’s at our core. And to speak to one of the other commentors, we have women priests & deacons and they teach the same lessons as their male counterparts. When I was formally received into the Episcopal Church over 20 years ago, my heart was bursting because a female bishop performed the ceremony. As a woman, it was the first time I felt fully included in any church. I repeat the message above our door, “The Episcopal Church Welcomes You”. We really mean it, whoever you are.

  • I think many Christians preferred earthly power to the Gospel of Jesus and the good works he has set before us. I don’t think it’s by chance the “most religious” decided to vote for the man who is not only a sinner, but an unrepentant sinner, a man who thinks hitting back ten times harder is than turning the other cheek is a good thing, that bearing false witness against his neighbor is just good strategy. But hey, he’s going to be mean to the people we don’t like! He started his campaign by bearing false witness five years ago. But his lies don’t matter because his followers just want control, particularly control over people they don’t like.

  • As someone raised by an evangelical pastor but who discovered early in life how intolerant and hypocritical all those churches are, this certainly could not have come as a surprise to you. After all, these churches resisted abolition and desegregation in the “name of Christ” and nothing has changed one bit. For all the use it gets, most of those churches should just tear out the teachings of Jesus and throw them in the trash. They’re all about the vengeful God of the Old Testament.

  • Females should be judged on their fecundity and total acceptance to servitude, right?
    Damn shame to relegate half the population to the level of char women.
    I know that I possess just as much value as a man and relish my independence from them as a whole. Some of the worst males I’ve discovered have been in the churches I’ve visited across the country.

    So, we get to blame your god should the innocent be plunged into a Hoover like depression again.

  • Exactly, women who are not fecund or subservient to questionable male authority are… useless.
    Therefore I have no reason to silently accept males using the bible to establish dominion over the US from Washington DC. My service in the military protected my rights to not be subjected to the avarice of ANY religion.

  • I and probably millions of Americans have seen the Evangelistic Christian for who they are..
    Those voting for and supporting a man who lacks anything like a moral compass and a man who stated that he can do anything he wants because he has power… Trump has pushed for racial hate, promotion of fear, and choices based on greed… If this is what Christians want, and obviously they do, more will be leaving their pews. Christianity has been redefined.

  • Who wants to be welcomed by an religion that promotes fear, hate, discrimination and ignorance? Christianity has been redefined by this election.. . Lets see how many Christians stand up for women, Gay , minorities, and other religions (including Muslims) rights? That is the only way that many will not associate Trump’s values with Christians.

  • God put Trump in that position. .. Is that like God put Obama in that position? Because I heard a lot of Christians claiming he was evil for the last 8 years, mainly because he is black and worked for equality for all.

  • The article from Beliefnet. Read the article from Beliefnet for a alternative perspective to “Female pastors are prohibited in Christian circles.”

    AND from https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/the-next-generation-billy-graham/ : “Billy Graham called Anne Graham Lotz (b. 1948) “the best preacher in the family,” but she prefers the title “teacher” to reduce conflict with conservative-minded Christians. Anne married dentist Daniel Lotz at age 18 and had her first child at age 20. She soon felt she was drifting and sought an anchor through Bible Study Fellowship. Her success as a Bible teacher led her to found AnGeL Ministries. She has six honorary doctorates and 11 books and has taken her “Just Give Me Jesus” seminars to 12 countries and has spoken to hundreds of thousands.”

    I know people in Fundamentalist circles that don’t believe Billy Graham to be “Christian” but that view is dying. Female preaching is not now nor never has been a litmus test for being Christian.

  • Either one follows Christ, or one follows the world. I don’t care if it’s Billy
    Graham or Spurgeon…Christ was very clear: 1 Timothy 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.”
    Women are allowed to teach women and children. (edited)

  • Yes Barb, God did put Obama in that position. He is evil. He chose not to listen to the Lord. Lord willing, Trump will listen to Him.
    Daniel 2: 20 – “…Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
    wisdom and power are his.
    21He changes times and seasons;
    he deposes kings and raises up others.

  • No woman is to be subservient to any male who is not her husband. There are people we show respect to and submit to due to their positions, but Christ did not make women a door mat. We are to be submissive to our husbands – no one else.
    I know of no scripture that states because one is a male, they have privilege over me.

  • Sounds to me as if you’re trying to teach me something. I’ll acquiesce to your authority and step aside.

  • It is what it is, Ms. Winston. You’ve got some partisan churches on BOTH sides of the current mess.

    Remember all those hearty “Amen’s” that Hillary was getting when she addressed the large black denomination “NBC-USA” national convention? Remember all the warm happy clappings that Michelle Obama got at the African Methodist Episcopal national convention in 2012? Sheer partisanship and “burst bubbles” can be found on ALL sides. Your article should have made that clear.

    Indeed, within your own Methodist Church national convention (the “2016 General Conference”), wasn’t there some very REAL tensions showing up between those liberal Methodists who openly favored gay-weddings and practicing-gay-ministers, and those biblical Methodists who openly opposed those corrosive evils? Wasn’t there lots of talk on ALL sides about “schism” (splitting up the entire denomination)? Bubbles bursting on both sides, yes.

    Yep, hard times are upon us, and there’s “bruised and scared” church-goers on ALL sides of the pew. (And here’s a little secret: Staying away from regular church attendance DOES NOT solve or even reduce the problem on the table. So just shop around for a compatible church like everybody else does!)

  • Oooh, that was clever Richard! You’ll certainly get a few points up in Heaven (or certainly someplace else) for that one!

  • They’re all about the vengeful God of the Old Testament.

    Is this the same God who “desires mercy, not sacrifice”?

  • Umm, Lainiejay said “the Episcopal Church.” That’s like 4 or 5 shades past “liberal”, on steroids!

    So hey, give ’em a try Barb. Go visit them. Given your present position(s), you’ll surely enjoy them on the spot !!

  • God bless you. I am allowed to because this is not a church.

    Where two or three are gathered in my name….

  • Lumping all Christians into the same pile is the same as calling all Muslims jihadists. The Episcopal Church stands for exactly those things you say Christians should. I am just as horrified as you at people who call themselves Christians who defame everything Jesus Christ stood for. I don’t excuse them. They make me just as angry. Please don’t show the same intolerance as the people you decry by refusing to recognize that there can be and are differences in the various denominations of the Christian religion.

  • I am very familiar with the Episcopal Church, a place where I felt welcomed for many years when I couldn’t find a a Methodist church that suited me. But I specifically wanted to go beyond my mainline comfort level last Sunday. I thought it would be a healthy thing to do. Clearly, I was wrong.

  • Careful floydlee. Jests regarding the other place, I think, are never in order, because the costs and consequences are just too dreadful. Just sayin’.

  • Perhaps you can test your comfort level in other ways, and you might reflect on the fact that Christ did not call us to be comfortable. I’m not being callous or cold, just suggesting that an effort to explore other faith groups need not necessarily be disconcerting.

  • Given the makeup of the various commentators I am not sure we can assume that we are gathered in His Name, at least not corporately.

  • Sandi, if we get the chance, I would like to speak to you again about another issue we have discussed before, but this thread doesn’t seem the place for it.

  • ” “nobody in this church voted the other way. You’re too nice.”……the preacher said ”

    That is a very very strange thing to hear, but probably typical in a fundamentalist environment.

    Here’s why the fundamentalist world creates so many of its own problems. Here’s why the attitudes and words from fundamentalists are so often loveless —

    You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how will it be made salty again? It is good for nothing anymore, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men…….Jesus…….Matthew 5:13

    …you must have the qualities of salt among yourselves and live in peace with each other…….Jesus……Mark 9:50

    Fundamentalists often quote 2 Chron 7:14…….Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land.

    In other words, these same fundamentalists should ‘turn from their wicked ways’ of loveless rhetoric and attitudes about the things they don’t like. They should seriously understand Matthew 5:46…..If you love only those who love you, what reward will you get? and Luke 6:35……..But love those you don’t like [LGBT’s for example] and DO GOOD TO THEM…….and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is loving towards all kinds of people.

    Everyone, especially Christians, should understand —
    Our conversation and attitudes should always be seasoned with grace and salt. To speak with grace means to say what is wholesome, fitting, kind, sensitive, purposeful, complementary, gentle, truthful, loving, and thoughtful.

    Christianity ‘without’ good, quality works and deeds, with all kinds of loving attitudes, won’t amount to a hill of beans in the future…..James 2:26

    Ms. Wilson, don’t forget that great Methodist message —

    “Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can.”

  • ” He is evil. ”

    For you will be treated as you treat others. The standards and words you use in judging others will be the standards and words by which you will be judged…………Matthew 7:12

  • Great article. We are still, as a country, avoiding the *elephant* in the living room. That elephant is Christian privilege. White Christians have long been able to assert their privilege without any serious opposition. Significant opposition finally appeared in the last 8 years, with the first black president and the rise of the non-Christian (commonly called “non-religious”, even though practically all “religious” people in America are Christian – that’s part of Christian privilege too – to avoidance of saying anything that could be seen as “insulting” Christians). Now that their privilege is no longer taken for granted, they lash out. That’s why white Christians overwhelmingly voted for Trump, with 81% support from evangelicals and strong majorities Catholics, Mormons, Protestants and “other Christians”. The big question is whether or not any journalists will have the courage to call a spade a spade and talk openly about Christian privilege – by that name. Privilege works by maintaining silence – to maintain that silence is to support privilege.

  • Well, these days I’m tempted to agree, having studied a little on the topic. The other place IS dreadful, in fact the Bible presents it as utterly beyond dreadful.
    So I’ll say “Point Taken” and retract it.

    Cancel my response Richard Rush, specifically for the above stated reason. I’ll have to shop around for other jests for you.

  • From what I learned in bible study is that Jesus did not subject women to a “less than” position. He valued them for what they could teach…to anyone. Some men who claimed to be speaking for Jesus decided to subjugate women …not just wives. And yes, women are required to be submissive to men who are not their husbands. Read your entire bible again.
    So once more I say, in the fundamentalist world and it’s ever increasing hold upon more misguided men, fecundity and servitude are becoming the measure of women in general.

  • “Evangelicals” so called are neither evangelical or Christian. They are neo-nationlists who preach a false gospel that excludes and damns. they have remade Jesus into a religious cowboy who enjoys riding roughshod over minorities and immigrants. They worship a bible steeped in Leviticus “holiness codes” and excludes the New Testament call to a servanthood of love as well as ignoring both the “woes” and the Beatitudes of Jesus.They are the “goats” condemned by Jesus in that most wondrous parable of the sheep and the goats!

  • The 1 Tim. 2:11 verse seems to contradict your assertion above that no scripture states that men have privilege over women. Aren’t you asserting that these verses apply to church only? Who is she supposed to be submitting to in this verse? A male-only pastor, right? Unless her husband is the pastor I suppose.

  • If Kimberley should not have expected much from that female pastor, why should we expect anything more from you? Did the church walls dim her ability to make coherent sentences? Or does the Internet improve yours?

  • Teaching requires a lot of responsibility and teachers are held to a higher expectation The verse I quoted does apply to the church. There are others that apply to the marital relationship and well, that’s it.
    It would depend, she is married, so she should submit to her husband. If she were not married, she would be under her dad’s authority.

  • We could pick the end of an article that is no longer relevant……I’ll find a place and get back to you. How Leonard Cohen taught Judaism to the world
    You may need to click through “more articles” at the bottom of the main page to get there but no one has commented on this one in a day or so…

  • That elephant is Christian privilege. White Christians ….
    I wonder if you would have “broken trail” and crossed the prairie, risking life and limb, to build this Country. I surely hope you are not white and an American. Pathetic. Who are you, Tim Wise?

  • Learn your Bible, “rev”, :
    28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

  • Hey, this is YOUR holy book that you’ve been using as a cudgel to condemn others. You should know how your weapon works.

  • I wish you’d named the church, so that people could be aware and would know to stay away. Signed, Phoenix area resident.

  • Well, consider that Evangelical Christians don’t consider Mormons Christians. But Mormons settled the Intermountain West in the second half of the 1800s. The city I live in here in Arizona was founded by Mormon settlers in the 1870s. It just wasn’t Evangelicals who risked life and limb in the American West.

  • This is why the Evangelical Church is an absolute failure among middle-aged never married and childless singles like myself. I failed the female test for these churches, because I didn’t marry and start popping out kids. I took a different path. Paul said that he preached Christ crucified. He didn’t preach that all women were supposed to marry and have kids. If the church did that, maybe I’d think about going back. As for right now, not willing to be that woman who failed at being a woman in evangelical eyes because I’m not married with kids.

  • I see you are still trolling this site and posting your poisons as one of great judges oh wait your a woman and according to “your bible” women should be quiet and never speak but learn instead from men,well you must of overlooked that passage

  • hope you are not married Lordy what a lecture you would be getting from your husband about keeping your mouth shut and being submissive to him!

  • Some of us hear the wails of those the left ignores.

    The wails of unborn children being murdered in the womb.
    The wails of faithful men serving their nation left to die alone in Benghazi.
    The wails of those who don’t have jobs because they can’t compete with illegal labor.
    The wails of homeless veterans.
    The wails of veterans needing health care but waiting for a corrupt VA.
    The wails of tens and hundreds of thousands of families across the world because of State Dept. failure in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt and beyond.
    The wails of families grieving the loss of loved ones killed by radicalized Muslims.

    Yes, we also hear the wails of those who are falsely judged because of race, religion, or gender/sexual divergence. But we hear the wails of those the left ignores.

    We are tired. We are tired of laws not enforced. We tired of one man (President) or a few men/women (Supreme Court) ignoring law, due process established by the Constitution taking their pens and making up as they go, in effect doing exactly what you claim bothers you: focused on your own idea of what America should be that you ignore, delegitimize, and dismiss the views and expectations of those who are conservative. We are tired of being ignored. We made our voices heard.

    We support immigration, legal and reasonable immigration, not this turn the head the other way and let the flood of people come in.

    We feel compassion for the displaced in the middle east, but we are not stupid to presume that it is wise to import people from radicalized lands and hope no gets killed.

    We believe in compassion and humanization of all: justice, freedom, life. That includes the unborn. We can hardly consider ourselves a civilized society when we rationalize murdering unborn human beings.

    We believe skin color, race, factors given us through our genetic heritage don’t matter. What does matter is behavior. Behavior matters and it doesn’t matter whether the one with poor behavior is white, black, brown, or another background. Equal justice under the law.

    We are tired of those who feel so much more intelligent, so much more spiritual, so much more enlightened they can tell everyone else how to live, what to think, what is valuable and what is not.

    We were tired, but not too tired to vote.

    Yes, Mr. Trump is no rose in the garden. If hard evidence is presented that he is guilty of sexual harassment or assault, I hope unlike the Democrats who defended Bill Clinton and still do, that he is impeached and removed. But he is right about immigration. A system can only tolerate so much outflow or resources. We need reasonable and legal immigration. America does not exist to send 65 billion dollars a year to Mexico. We need to be smart and stop pretending that radical Islam is not a danger to the entire world, including us. And it is a much wider problem than the left wants to admit. The left needs to stop living in fantasy land and wake up to the real world. The Islamic world is a mix of good and bad like the rest. But we can’t pretend it is all good and treat it as all good and hope it just works out. People are dying because the left wants to be nice.

    It is time to be real. What we can really do. What we can really expect. How we can make the real world a better place for folks who want to be civilized.

    And I suspect Jesus didn’t come to endorse either left or right political agendas. Everyone wants a Jesus who is just like them and endorses their view of the world should look like. No one wants the Jesus who is out turning over tables.

  • I’m not so much interested in the reasons behind the rule, just how it can be that you feel you have something worthwhile to say here, but the female pastor in the story could not, and the only salient difference is that she was in church.

  • You’re right Barb. I had hoped for better. I’m trying to keep in mind that there were strong voices of dissent from the majority of evangelicals. While I am not evangelical and have many strong theological disagreements with them, faithful evangelicals have an roles too.

  • I can’t speak for many Christians but this voter for Mr. Trump
    1. has two daughters and believes their gender is irrelevant to their abilities (except giving me grandchildren one day) and that they should be free and empowered to be what they want to be and make their lives exceptional. I do not believe they should have the right to murder anyone (including their unborn children)
    2. I do not believe race or skin color matters a bit. What does matter is behavior.
    3. I believe that our country has it right: freedom of religion for all to practice or not practice as their conscience dictates. We need to be respectful of others. That said we can’t be stupid and pretend that radicalization does not exist. So we deal with hate groups inside our borders and get smart about bringing in refugees from radicalized lands.

  • This is right on the nose Jon. Loss of some degree of privilege is experienced as an attack or discrimination, not only by white Christians, but also males.

  • And you think Hillary has a moral compass?
    1. abortion into the third trimester on demand
    2. money…money…money…
    3. power…power…power…
    4. influence…influence…influence…
    5. blind toward her own husband’s sexual harassment and assault of women
    6. classing entire groups of people as “deplorable”.

    Sorry, pot calling the kettle black.

    We had two terrible choices. Folks made their best choice of the lesser of two evils. For me it came down to this:

    1. view on sexual harrasment — same
    2. view on unborn children — Trump might save some of them
    3. view on military — Hillary left some to die in Benghazi (yes I know this for certain as I was serving at the time and saw certain things unfold). Trump yet to be seen for certain.
    4. immigration — Hillary – no reasonable balance whatsoever. Trump – hopefully reasonable and as compassionate as we can handle as an economic system.
    5. power — Hillary – her coronation was started years ago when she was set up for Congress (did fairly well), set up for Dept of State (failed miserablely), coronated by Democratic party; Trump is not establishment.
    6. language – Hillary tells us what she wants us to think or says what she thinks we expect to hear and you never know if it is true or accurate. Trump — you know what he is thinking.

  • Really? You want your evangelical friend to vandalize an article about Judaism because it doesn’t arouse the strong opinions that this one does? How charming. More Christian “love.”

  • If you knew what you were talking about “rev”, you would know that your assertion is only for in church. Sigh.

  • Well then I failed the test also, but i don’t go to church for the people. I go to church for Jesus.

  • lady and i use the term loosely you are a racist and bigot. you and your ilk are harlots and you serve the father of lies by your hate. You are the perfect example of how perverted “evangelicals” are and how you and other fascists/white supremacists who have wrapped themselves in the flag under a cross have prostituted the Gospel and repudiated Jesus. You need to take your poison and your racism and leave this site. If you want to preach your hate then go to your nearest KKK rally, for I am sure you know where it is and the folkes who will be attending, and literally foam at the mouth if you want to but leave the rest of us in peace. I know your type and have seen the violence and damaged done to the innocent by your type. I have been spit on by your bible quoting friends and had my life put in danger by white supremacist who said they were doing what the “KJV”told them to do. No I have no respect for you and your kind of jackel that hides in the dark until now when that fear mongering hate merchant usurper and his porn star wife gave you permission to no longer speak in your “code language” that so called evangelicals know so well but openly and viciously attack and condemn people of colour and gay people, women, immigrants and anyone else who is not a white american neo-nazi!

  • And how does that make you more qualified to speak? If she had been out a street corner it would have been okay? Talking to strangers at Starbucks?

  • Mic drop, you say? Forget it. Gentry’s lucky that I’m trying to model (just for today) that “open hearts and minds” “compassion” shpiel you mentioned in another thread.

  • I’m all for churches preaching a message of “Make Jesus Christ Great Again!” Somewhere in there is admonition to focus our love and service on Christ’s kingdom, which is not of this world and does not observe the same metrics for success.

    If you’re not finding it in the churches you attend, then why not start a church in your home, to focus on the gospel and the Kingdom of God? There are bound to be more hungry souls who would gladly join up!

  • Seriously, Mirele? You are suggesting that all it would take for you to “think about going back to church”, is simply to be able to locate an evangelical church that “doesn’t preach that all women are supposed to marry and have kids”?

    I’m just asking. I’m asking because in my own hometown there’s at least 5 or 6 such churches that I’ve personally visited that are like that, and 7 churches if you count the church that I myself attend.

    Obviously I don’t know the church situation around Phoenix Arizona, but I do know that Phoenix’s population is over 10 times the population of my hometown. So I’m thinking that a seeker might WOULD be able to find such a church.

    Of course, there are **other** possible considerations that might create questions or issues, maybe. But merely not being “married with kids” is NOT a “Failure To Be A Good Evangelical.”

  • C’mon, Arbustin. I liked reading about Cohen as much as the next RNS reader, and I surely appreciate the musical glimpse into Judaism that he supplied during his career.

    There is no “vandalism” here, no dancing on Cohen’s grave. In other words there’s no need to transform into defense mode, for there’s no attack underway.

    If anything, it’s saying something about the peacefulness and non-volatility of the Cohen article, that other people consider it and its discussion forum to be a good locality in which to discuss another issue in a neutral peaceful manner.

  • It’s not merely that. It’s the fact that white evangelicalism has this cult of the nuclear family. Sermons surround family and children. Those of us who have neither are looked upon as fifth wheels or superfluous. If I were to go to church, I’d be expected to go have Bible study with the retired people, even though I expect to work my job for at least the next decade-plus. It also doesn’t help that I’m very much my own person, the church is not the center of my life, I have a professional job and I’m very much able to compare how women are treated in the average evangelical church with my amoral, too big to fail employer. And let me tell you, the comparison is awful. At work, my opinion is valued. At church, I’m ignored. You tell me, would you like to be in that situation Sunday after Sunday after Sunday?

    It probably also doesn’t help that I’m a very well-educated laywoman and I know when I’m being fed a line of nonsense at church. I’m not easily cowed.

  • Interesting how Jesus never said anything about going to church. It’s only later that we get the rhetoric about not forsaking the assembling together, written by the anonymous author of Hebrews.

  • Perhaps that’s the optimistic view. It just seems like more privilege to me. Apparently someone’s comments — not Sandi’s — were removed from the Cohen article for anti-Semitic content though.

  • Actually, mirele, I strongly believe in the necessity of assembly. I have seen myself fall horribly when I had no one to account to. We all need to be accountable to teach other to keep Christianity strong, and protect it from apostates.

  • Ok, so you’re a well-educated single laywoman (who is not easily cowed, and is both professional and busy) who haven’t yet found a church where your opinions are valued, and where the pastor openly preaches and invites people like you to heavy action, and where they don’t smother you with the Seniors Bible Study and the Old-Mothers-Board cookie sales. Is that accurate, Mirele?

    Okay. Won’t lie to you. Granted that I do not know you or your world, I have SEEN evangelical churches that seem to do a good job. There are places where they seem to fit your bill as you described it.

    Now in some cases, I needed to combine the “regular church” with a good bible-believing Para-Church group, so I could get whatever action the “regular church” seemed to be missing (including being able to challenge and improve you on your claimed ability to distinguish rational sense from non-sense.)

    So I’m still saying please don’t give up on “shopping around”, both with “regular church” and “para-church” groups. I think you will succeed if you don’t give up on us. Oh, btw, there ain’t no “average” evangelical church. Heh!!

  • i’m so sorry. the church should be safe and healing for every person, and your experience was neither.

  • No mic drop for you, though I do applaud a noticeable turn towards greater civility and more effective witness. Good for you.

  • “We are tired of those who feel so much more intelligent, so much more spiritual, so much more enlightened they can tell everyone else how to live, what to think, what is valuable and what is not.”
    Projection beyond grandest desires of my ability to express myself…

    When you’re not just flat out creating a caricature of a straw man of something you call “the Left.” Which apparently means anyone to the left of you, who thinks differently than you, and in your particular case, who also has a relationship with god that is every bit as genuine as yours is, but seems tp differ in the matter of what he tells them is important to him.

    Let me tell you that as a gay man, and as an atheist, I’ve been listening to your ilk for my whole life, telling me all the ways of “what is valuable and what is not.”

    More people voted for Mrs. Clinton that voted for Trump. And far to many people, poisoned by decades of right wing lies, like comey’s last minute “October surprise” and your fairy story about Benghazi, just didn’t bother to vote. Bill Clinton’s sins were at least consensual, and a major moral and political disappointment to people like me “on the left”, unlike a certain Grabby McVulva.

    ” How we can make the real world a better place for folks who want to be civilized?” Oh, I don’t know. How about something Christian like doing unto others, not bearing false witness, and judging other people.

  • Kimberly Winston probably should have looked up a UU church, where she likely would have found support, as their congregants were likely consoling each other over a minority of voters selecting one of the worst men we have ever had for President.

    A UU church is probably as close to a church as anyone should get, given religion’s long sordid history of dehumanizing the “other” and the evil that religion has visited on human beings.

    Everyone still looks at Evangelicals as a religious group that gets involved in politics. I think that’s the wrong way to look at it. They’re primarily a GOP-affiliated political action group that has some religious trappings. Evangelical churches showed Trump campaign commercials in their sanctuaries, they registered voters for the GOP in their lobbies, and they endorsed Donald Trump from their pulpits. The woman preacher was right – a true Evangelical would have voted for Trump.

  • Re “…proof, she said, that a country can ‘only wallow in sin so long’ before God sends a savior”, and
    “How did we become so focused on our own ideas of what America ought to be that we — both Trump and Clinton supporters — missed each other’s howls of pain, cries for help and wailing of grievances?”:

    I think a big part of the problem is how many people spend how much time judging how many strangers for how many things — without bothering to justify why they’re judging those strangers in the first place.

    Judging the trustworthiness of a neighbor who wants to borrow one’s car clearly makes sense. So does judging the success rate of a surgeon before one goes under the knife. But judging the merely made-up character of, and making confidently concocted accusations against, a stranger who doesn’t look or speak or act or opt or live or love or believe or pray the way one thinks they should? I don’t think that’s judgment. I don’t even think that’s moral. I think that’s vanity.

    It seems to me there’s far too much emphasis these days on standing to loudly judge others, and far too little emphasis on sitting (or kneeling) to quietly judge ourselves.

  • Um, America was built neither by nor for only Christians. All of the first half dozen US presidents were heretics, and the founding fathers included Deists, Atheists, and Agnostics in addition to Christians. That’s why we have a first amendment, and why a Christians only government is explicitly forbidden in the Constitution. The same goes for settling the west. As for me, I’m white, male, and yes, American. Not only would I have broken trail, but I’ve also had made sure everyone was fed. I’m glad to have bagged not one, but two deer last month. Roy, if you want a theocracy, one’s ready for you in Iran.

  • White Guilt………look it up. While you are at it, google White Genocide. Listen to the White Rabbit folks/Bob Whitaker. Had you just said, “Christians” and left out “white” I wouldn’t have railed on you. Once you discover those who wish to genocide us, you may just back off on your original comment. I don’t like them either………..but I’ll take them over the alternative. Tanstaafl at ageoftreason is a must listen. Kevin McDonald too.

  • You are correct. White men and women built this country. The SJW’s would like to edit that part of US history, and ultimately erase us from existence.

  • I have to say that the pastor of this church was out of line, and he should be contacting you to apologize. I had been hearing for a long time how Western Christians in general, American Christians in specific had a hard time separating our religion from our politics. I really did not know what that meant until I lived overseas for awhile. The politics of the time should never have made it to the pulpit.
    There we part company, as the saying goes.
    What I find rather stunning is that in reading many articles on the RNS, and numerous other religious publications, one thing stood out. And that was the sheer number of evangelicals who spoke out against Trump, and advised people NOT to vote for him. And yet here we see alot of responses to your article that indicate just as much hate as evangelicals are being accused of. No…Christianity has NOT been defined or even explained by Trump’s election, except maybe in the small minds of small people. First, Christians are not the only group that went for Trump. 2nd, before you start laying blame, your followers really need to look at why Clinton lost. In reality, she was a bad candidate herself, and had the left ran a more reasonable, less controversial candidate, we most likely would not even be having this conversation.
    But of even bigger concern is your last sentence. Not return to church again except in a professional role? Really?
    Sorry, but that statement begs the question: Are you a Christian? Or more precisely, are you a Church Christian, or a Biblical Christian? The two are not always the same thing.

  • No, you know who has been erased from history? The millions of African slaves who were stolen from Africa, taken to the United States, used as chattel property and did not receive the fruits of their labor. We don’t hear often about how the wealth of America was built on the back of African-American slaves and on the stolen land of indigenous Americans. And yes, the Mormons had slaves (not very many) and stole the land of the local Native Americans.

    But you completely missed the point. No, I don’t plan on helping you figure it out.

  • OMG……….please tell me you are not a White person. Your comment is the epitome of ‘white guilt’.

  • Whatever, guy. I’m just telling you my experience. Sorry you can’t see that my experience is shared by millions of others and the evangelical church does a lousy job of appealing to those of us outside the nuclear family milieu.

  • If your Christianity doesn’t work when you’re alone, and requires constant reinforcement through group rituals, it’s not much of a Christianity, IMHO.

  • No. I’m like a sheep – stupid – and I need other sheep who follow the same shepherd so I can stay in line.

  • You know what happens to sheep? They get sheared (which I love, because I spin their wool–yes, I really do have a spinning wheel) and they get slaughtered. You know, I’m not in the mood to be slaughtered. Jesus also said to be as wily as serpents too.

  • Yes He did…but I am one of His sheep, and I am safer with Him and His than on my own, hoping I am following Him.

  • I agree that our choices of candidates were not the best, but saying we chose the lessor of two evils, we voted for evil. I do not think either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump is evil. For me it was a matter of looking at the platforms of both candidates and the policies they would implement. I happen to agree and have more in common with the Repubican platform and that was how I voted. If my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ voted another way, who am I to judge? Romans 14:4 says, “who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.”

  • Thanks, but don’t be too quick to applaud me for anything. Gentry messes up again, I may choose to “backslide” (and have fun doing so, too) !!

  • Triggered! There is nothing “Racist” about Sandi or her comments; but somehow you pulled them out of a hat like a magician. Triggered. Grow up.

  • Late term abortion is invariably done by mothers who intended to keep their pregnancy but could not due to medical situations. Your arrogance, ignorance and overwhelming desire to trespass upon the lives of women is duly noted.

    Deplorable is a good description for a good deal of Trump’s current inner circle and some of the views they express. What was immoral was walking back from the statement.

    “view on unborn children — Trump might save some of them”

    LMAO!!! I wonder how many women Trump forced to have an abortion. He doesn’t give a damn about the subject. You guys are so desperate you impute such beliefs to him.

    “3. view on military” Trump called POW’s wimps, wants nuclear proliferation, wants the US to be pwned throughout the world and picked a fight with the parents of a fallen soldier. At this point we should be lucky if he outsources decisions concerning the military lest we end up with nuclear armageddon

    “4. immigration” He lied to you guys pretty clearly. Trump has always benefitted from illegal alien labor as do all people who represent big monied interests. Don’t expect foundations to that wall to be dug any time soon. There have been only two governments out there who were capable of deporting millions of people at a clip. Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. Good luck with that.

  • “The wails of unborn children being murdered in the womb.”
    You voted for someone who tells poor mothers and their children to starve and die

    “The wails of faithful men serving their nation left to die alone in Benghazi.”
    You voted for a person who called POW’s wimps and started a week long hissyfit with the parents of a fallen soldier

    “The wails of those who don’t have jobs because they can’t compete with illegal labor.”
    You have to be pretty uneducated and lacking in skills to be competing with illegal alien labor for jobs. Most Americans prefer welfare to doing that kind of work. Trump thinks such people should be working at Mexican or China level wages.

    “The wails of homeless veterans.The wails of veterans needing health care but waiting for a corrupt VA.”
    Republicans have consistently voted to slash the VA, freeze military salaries, cut military benefits, slash pensions, and cut programs to help veterans adjust after the military. And you voted for them. So you don’t get to complain about this one. You are responsible as well.

    “The wails of tens and hundreds of thousands of families across the world because of State Dept. failure in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt and beyond.”
    I don’t get this one. Republicans talks out of both sides of their mouths on this one. You get isolationists who complain about any foreign involvement, then you have the chickenhawks who just complain we are not involved enough. 99% of their platform was just disagreeing with the president for its own sake. So no, you don’t get to claim that one either. People like you are part of the problem.

    “The wails of families grieving the loss of loved ones killed by radicalized Muslims.”
    And yet the current plan is to radicalize American Muslims by outright discrimination. By ignoring 1st Amendment religious freedoms. ISIS celebrated Trump’s victory as a boon to their propaganda efforts. Think about that for a moment

    “Yes, we also hear the wails of those who are falsely judged because of race, religion, or gender/sexual divergence. But we hear the wails of those the left ignores.”

    You hear the wails BECAUSE YOU ARE CAUSING THEM!

  • Are you serious? Mr. Obama. Married once. No affairs. No scandals. Thought hard about god, and churches, having been exposed to several different belief systems growing up, chose Christianity and attends, whether you care for his choice of churches or not. While President he attended several D.C. churches. Was given hell by the left for not getting rid of faith based days of prayer in a secular country. But he is evil.

    You are extolling, as put in place by god, a man who has had at least one affair during each of his three marriages, and who encourage Maples to abort Tiffany as he didn’t want any more children. Admitted to sexual assault of women because “When you’re a star they let you do anything”.

    Politics are what they are, judging the Obamas as evil and Trump as good when you look at the actions of their lives, is truly insane.

    I find your version of Christianity, that judges and condemns good people like the Obamas, because you disagree with them politically, to be the most evil I have seen.

  • Sandy, it amazes me you consider yourself christian. You behavior certainly isn’t. It matches the Pharisees quite nicely though, be proud. Yours is the type of Christianity that makes people hate it, and makes me very glad my relationship with god has moved far past it.
    I truly hope some day something opens your heart to the love of god and you lose your need to enforce your man made rules and regulations on others, and to be so proud and arrogant in the process.

  • Even if you are not one of these reality TV entertainer supporting evangelicals, if you advocate for a world haunted by gods and demons, then you are part of the problem. Because you help legitimize a world in which these evangelicals play. You don’t get to foster a world haunted by gods and demons that want humans to do things, and then innocently sit around and watch the carnage that ensues.

  • That’s the cool thing about Christianity. It’s bendable enough to have hundreds if not thousands of differing beliefs under the same umbrella, all somehow following the “truth”, so there is definitely plenty of room under this umbrella for any number of differing types of churches which fit nicely within the “truth” of the congregants.

  • “I wonder if you would have “broken trail” and crossed the prairie, risking life and limb, to build this Country.”

    So the Native Americans where Christian and white before the first white Christians stepped foot in the country?

    What of the people who actually built the country and not the ones who financed it? Were the Chinese white and Christian only while they were building the railroads? What of the black people? Were they white and Christian while they were being forced to pick cotton?
    The list could go on to include every race of people and a vast majority of the ethnic groups around the world.

    I’m not one to be needlessly charitable so I’ll call it how I see it. All you’ve accomplished is to show how stupid you really are regarding the Country you would like everyone to believe you love so much.

  • White genocide? You mean the conspiracy theory propagated by scared little boys like David Lane?
    Do you really want to be taken seriously when you talk or write?

  • 1. So you agree that it is okay to grab a woman by the pussy just because?

    2. Good deal. Now bring yourselves to actually care about those children after they’re born. Make it so that there are no children in the United States up for adoption and no need for foster care. Surely there are enough Christians in the Country to make this happen if they actually cared aren’t there?

    3. Really? That’s the best you’ve got? How many past presidents, SecStates, SecDefs, etc. have done the same in any number of situations? How many of them did you support and how many do you continue to defend?

    4. Reasonable? You’re hoping Trump will be reasonable and compassionate when he won, partly, because he promised to ban all Muslims and build a wall along the U.S./Mexican border? How much have you bent and twisted the definitions of reasonable and compassionate?

    5. And Trump’s didn’t? He was set up by daddy Trump. Failed miserably multiple times and still thinks he’s something special. As far as establishment. Establishment is not just politicians. It is also the businessmen who benefit from and influence politicians and politics so, yes, he is establishment.

    6. Trump told you exactly what you wanted to hear. You really think you know what he’s thinking? Look back at your own points 3 and 4. Two points that are supposedly important to you and you don’t even know how Trump’s going to deal with them.

  • You call Tents “Civilization” as in “Western Civilization”?
    Tents are close to Coliseums and Aqueducts etc., etc., etc., as in construction and development? Who is the stupid one.

  • IF you are a white person, check out the White Rabbit folks. White Rabbit radio/ Check out the Coudenhave Calergi plan.

  • No, I’m not a member of the NSDAP. Men like Kaufman and Morgenthal did a pretty good job neutering those men and women. KKK? Do you honestly believe the kkk has any influence or following? When was the last time you personally saw a man wearing a hood. What a joke. Look up Frank Collin aka Frank Cohen. I like how you admit you are a ‘traitor’ to your race. I would not have called you that. Sad you hate yourself.

  • Sorry it has taken me three days to respond to your comment. I did not name the church or the pastor because I did not announce myself to him or to the congregation as a reporter planning to write about the experience because I had no intention of doing so when I walked in. I went as a civilian, so to speak, and to call them out by name after the fact would not be fair or journalistically sound. I am sorry.

  • So sad to hear about this and how disgusting to see politics from the pulpit!! I would have not lasted there very long either. I attend a church in San Antonio that has brought me back to church! I walked away from organized religion because it seemed to push the organization and NOT His message. What I absolutely love about my Pastor is that I have no idea what his politics are. He will routinely speak about truths while throwing Republicans, Democrats, Christians (who don’t act as Christians) under the bus of truth. Real, raw and relevant has been used to describe Rick Godwin. Please don’t give up on all Christians by sampling the worst of them. I wouldn’t judge Christians by Westboro “Baptist” Church and feel there are many places of tolerance in this world. While I know we have people in our church who may feel like the people in the church you visited, they don’t get a voixpce from the pulpit at my church, thank God. My Pastor doesn’t tell me who to vote for, or that the world is going to end in the next couple of weeks – for that I am truly grateful. The purpose of The Church is to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ and that is what I see at our church. God Bless you!!

  • Exactly, Jesus neither preached hate nor forced his Salvation on anyone! Not sure where forcing your views on others is covered in my Bible…. Still looking….

  • Following Jesus’ teachings is the True Christian argument – Christ NEVER taught hate and exclusion, EVER!!

  • You can scream it as loud as you want but there is no “true Christian” other than Christ if he even existed.
    Any person other than him is a pretender to the throne practicing their religion by how they believe

  • 1. No. If hard evidence of sexual assault is presented he should be impeached.
    2. Agree…this also needs looking at.
    3. I continue to assert Hillary has made her position on DoD plain and her incompetence is clear. Trump can be no worse and likely some better.
    4. Yes a wall is necessary. I fully support legal immigration. I fully support a ban on all Muslim refugees until we can be certain they are safe. It is not worth the life of anyone in my family or any of my friends to bring refugees from radicalized regions to the US.
    5. Trump will create necessary conversation in Washington.
    6. Know, but I suspect how Hillary would have an in my opinion it would have been more disaster on teh scale of Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq/ISIL and so on.

  • 1. So you don’t really agree with him on that point.
    2. You also don’t agree with him on this point as he has said nothing in regards to it.
    3. So you’re giving a free pass to all those before Hillary who have put others in harms way simply because you like them and don’t like her?
    4. So you want to “make America great again” but you’re willing to let go of the idea or fact that America is the greatest, freest nation in the world? All through his monkey show Trump reference back to times past for this idea of his. When in the past, when America was supposedly great or greater, did these ideas surface? When were they part of the fabric of freedom of America?
    5. You know this to be a fact? How?
    6. So it’s only your opinion and you really don’t know how Trump thinks or how he’s going to deal with anything. How much did you have to delude yourself to be able to make the statement that you know what Trump’s thinking?

  • Broken hearted, I take no glee in hearing this story I have been living it for two weeks. I am a former pastor who heart is broken, over the fact that friends and family have sacrificed their faith for a form that puts their political views over the words of Christ. Where do I turn now I can’t even see those I love understanding how I feel right now. The fear I now have for my children and all children if they are of color like mine or not. How to explain I’m pro-life, for all killed in war, as well as those on death row, not just the unborn. What happens to the children born and live in squalor, cutting funding to social services is no proof of love or justice. So now what? Progressives can be as hostile to people of evangelical faith as those in evangelical community are to those christian who disagree with them. I feel trapped my church who supported Trump are far from the words of Jesus and I not sure where to turn

  • I share your dismay, despair, fear, and feeling of entrapment, Tomaz. Even though I don’t share your beliefs, I share your concerns about the increasing volume and intensity of mean-spirited busy-bullies who have somehow allowed themselves to believe that mistreating others is somewhere between acceptable and commendable.

    “…cutting funding to social services is no proof of love or justice.” Amen. And this is only one example of what is happening now, and what I sadly expect to continue happening for the foreseeable future.

    I wish those busy-bullies — who mindfully yet soullessly dismiss and disparage other people’s rights, lives, beliefs, and needs — were roundly, soundly, and houndly challenged and condemned by their religious, political, and cultural leaders and peers.

    I wish those leaders and peers would relentlessly remind the busy-bullies that humility is a virtue, not hubris; that self-restraint is a virtue, not self-righteousness; that mercy is a virtue, not malice; and that coexistence is a virtue, not conquest.

    I wish this socializing, equalizing, humanizing response would become a norm in our shared society.

    And I sincerely hope that those religious, political, and cultural leaders and peers — who currently seem to be abdicating their moral duty — will soon allow their guilt to trump their fears about “draining the swamp” of its ungodly reptilian predators.

    I deeply wish I could offer you comfort for your broken heart, Tomaz, and hope for your children. I hope you do find both comfort and hope in the words of your God and Savior.

  • Seriously now!! if we have so many ?’s knowing what morality, love, temperance, comes from God, how is it that we can continue to call these people of God. Many will be deceived in these last days, we are here so only the way to get solace is from God himself. Many often seek a middleman like a church or pastor, Why not talk and be with God yourself. You don’t need a middleman or a church because you are being disappointed because they are fallible men and women who are deceived so their message only will make it worst. Lets just pray for God to bless America and rid us of Trump quickly.!! God has a plan and we just have to Trust Him, now that’s faith, believing God when it looks the worst.

  • You know, I went to J-school and came *this* close to getting a bachelor of journalism in 1982 (failed the last class in the program), so I have a slight bit of understanding about journalistic ethics. I also have a law degree, so I know you don’t owe that guy or his church any sort of confidentiality regarding who they are.

    I am of the opinion that not disclosing the church is wrong. You wrote about the experience, but we are missing some key details that would help us to put the experience into context. Knowing which church it was would have helped me and other readers to answer the question, “Well, is this to be expected, knowing it’s X church and they’re known for that?” or “Oh my, this is completely unexpected, it looks like this stuff is spreading.”

    Personally, I think you should not have written about this at all if you couldn’t have disclosed the church. It’s ultimately unhelpful.

    –Deana M. Holmes

  • KKK = Dominionism, fascsim, authoritarianism, racism There are many names for the same, sick evil that constitutes right wing world view.

  • Germans loving and caring for other Germans = Evil
    Japanese loving and caring for other Japanese = Good
    Mexicans loving and caring for other Mexicans = Good
    You get the point.
    I really hope you (Tamsen) are not a Caucasian person.

  • “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters–yes, even his own life–he cannot be My disciple.” – JESUS (Luke 14:26) You might think differently if you ever read your own religion’s scriptures once…

  • “Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth; I came not to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set at variance A man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and the enemies of the man are his own household. The one loving father or mother above Me is not worthy of Me, and the one loving son or daughter above Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.” – JESUS (Matt. 10:34-38)

  • OMG, NO! If they actually READ the Bible in all its constituent parts, they’d be confused. Better to just believe in your own Personal Jesus, My Coach And Best Bud–that Jesus never asks anything but that you get Squishy over Him.

  • Yeah, shop around until you find your own Personal Jesus, the Jesus who only pets and praises you and NEVER asks you to do anything you’re uncomfortable with, like accepting gay people as human beings with rights. Jesus would NEVER ask you to do anything nasty like that. You people are disgusting.

  • From my experience serving in uniform in AFRICOM during Hillary’s horrible leadership that cost American lives I have to say Trump has still proven to be better.