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Princeton seminary taking some heat for honoring Redeemer’s Tim Keller

Timothy Keller is the founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan, which he started in 1989. Screenshot from Vimeo

(RNS) Princeton Theological Seminary is facing criticism for its decision to honor the Rev. Tim Keller, founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan and one of the country’s most popular and influential conservative Christian thinkers.

Keller will receive the 2017 Kuyper Prize for Excellence in Reformed Theology and Public Witness at the venerable mainline Protestant seminary in New Jersey on April 6 and will also deliver a lecture on evangelization and “church planting.”

As the seminary said in announcing the award, Keller “is widely known as an innovative theologian and church leader, well-published author, and catalyst for urban mission in major cities around the world.”

But Keller is also a leader in the Presbyterian Church in America, or PCA, which is the more conservative wing of U.S. Presbyterianism and does not permit the ordination of women or LGBTQ people.

That has prompted criticism from those who believe that a seminary such as Princeton, and one associated with the more liberal Presbyterian Church (USA), or PCUSA, should not be honoring Keller at all.

“I’ll let others argue finer points of Rev. Keller’s theology,” the Rev. Traci Smith, a seminary alum and currently a PCUSA pastor in San Antonio, Texas, wrote on her blog.

“My personal soapbox is much less refined. It boils down to this: an institution designed to train men and women for ministry shouldn’t be awarding fancy prizes to someone who believes half the student body (or is it more than half?) has no business leading churches. It’s offensive and, as I have taught my four and five year olds to express, it hurts my feelings.”

Alexander Hall is the original building of the Princeton Theological Seminary, designed by John McComb Jr. and built in 1814. Photo courtesy of Creative Commons/DJ Keddie

On her blog published on the website of the Christian Century, the flagship magazine for mainline Protestantism, author Carol Howard Merritt focused on what she said was Keller’s promotion of the view that Christian women should be submissive to their husbands – an idea known as “complementarianism” — and argued that such thinking has encouraged domestic abuse.

“I am literally shaking with grief as I write this,” wrote Merritt, whose latest book is “Healing Spiritual Wounds.” “I have spent years with women who have tried to de-program themselves after growing up in this baptized abuse.”

“In these difficult days, when our president says that women’s genitalia is up for grabs by any man with power and influence, I hoped that my denomination would stand up for women, loud and clear,” she concluded. “Instead we are honoring and celebrating a man who has championed toxic theology for decades.”

Tim Keller speaking on Sept. 30, 2006. Photo courtesy of Creative Commons/Frank Licorice

Recognizing that “many in our community are deeply concerned” by the invitation to Keller, the seminary president, the Rev. Craig Barnes, sent an email to faculty and students noting his own disagreements with Keller on issues related to women and LGBTQ people and reiterating that the seminary “embraces full inclusion for ordained leadership of the church.”

But Barnes also said that “censorship” was antithetical to the seminary’s mission and identity; it is, Barnes wrote, “a core conviction of our seminary to be a serious academic institution that will sometimes bring controversial speakers to campus because we refuse to exclude voices within the church.”

“Diversity of theological thought and practice has long been a hallmark of our school,” he wrote, noting that speakers from other wings of Protestantism as well as from the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches have spoken there.

“So my hope is that we will receive Rev. Keller in a spirit of grace and academic freedom, realizing we can listen to someone with whom many, including me, strongly disagree about this critical issue of justice,” Barnes concluded.


READ: The Rev. Timothy Keller to step down from Redeemer Presbyterian Church


Conservative voices have also begun weighing in to defend Keller — who plans to step down as full-time head of Redeemer this summer — and question his critics.

As Mark Tooley, a Methodist who heads the tradition-minded Institute on Religion and Democracy, put it, Keller is not known as a culture warrior.

He “typically avoids culture war issues and hot button debates” and he “affirms traditional Christian sexual ethics and marriage teaching but rarely speaks about it,” as Tooley put it. “His churches are full of New Yorkers who are socially liberal but drawn to his intellectually vibrant presentation of Christianity.”

“Although its celebrants often don’t realize it, the universe of liberal Protestantism is very small and getting smaller,” he concluded. “Keller will speak at Princeton on church planting, and hopefully he will be heard.”

About the author

David Gibson

David Gibson is a national reporter for RNS and an award-winning religion journalist, author and filmmaker. He has written several books on Catholic topics. His latest book is on biblical artifacts: "Finding Jesus: Faith. Fact. Forgery," which was also the basis of a popular CNN series.

85 Comments

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  • The prize is certainly worthless as the title of it, “Excellence in Reformed Theology,” is an oxymoron.
    Princeton is the weird cousin of Harvard and Yale they never talk about, continually producing embarrassments like this. Alexander Hamilton had the right idea when even after his soldiers told him the Hessian mercenaries they were pursuing were no longer hiding at P.U., he had his artillery men demolish the campus with cannon fire just to make sure.

  • I’m someone who’s fairly socially liberal and wants to see women and LGBTQIA people treated with dignity and respect in our Churches, including being allowed to lead. At the same time I think these people need to grow up.

    I’m honestly getting more than a little impatient with a form of liberalism that has emerged that’s elitists and can’t handle other opinions than theirs. What they are basically saying is that because Rev Keller is a social conservative, therefore he can’t be awarded or recognized by Princeton. Many people who are from various different stripes visit Redeemer and though they may not agree with Tim Keller’s theology, they praise him for his grace in approaching people with different beliefs. Even Matthew Vines from the Reformation Project which aims to make Churches more inclusive spaces for LGBTQIA people has praised Keller on this.

  • It isn’t that Keller shouldn’t be allowed to speak at Princeton Theological Seminary. He ought not to be silenced. But he’s being given a $10,000 prize for “Excellence in Reformed Theology and Public Witness.” (The full story should have been in this article.)

    Let him speak at another time, let him take questions, let him occupy a place on a panel in which any one of a number of issues are discussed. But Keller would never invite Yolanda Pierce or Sally Brown to preach at Redeemer. Since he won’t recognize the teaching and preaching authority of women on the Princeton faculty, why on earth is he being given this award by the seminary community? Is there no better spokesperson for Reformed Theology and Public Witness available for PTS to honor and award? Based on what contribution to Reformed thought or, God help us at this moment in history, — “public witness?”

  • Well said! Not about “censorship,” as Pres. Barnes wrongfully framed it. The problem is he’s being awarded for his contribution to pubic theology when that very contribution excludes nearly half of the body of the institution giving him the award.

  • This is not a matter of merely hearing Keller. This is a matter of giving him a $10,000 award for excellence in “Reformed Theology and Public Witness.” The question as I see it is whether this man reflects such a crucial development in Reformed thought that he deserves this prestigious, annual award given by a mainline Protestant seminary. Keller could line his walls with accolades from conservative evangelical institutions. It is a mystery to me that PTS couldn’t consider the great importance of recognizing a member of the worldwide community who is now a leader in the kind of Reformed thought championed by the seminary community.

  • The seminary and the university are two different institutions. This isn’t the divinity school of Princeton University. It is no relation.

  • “What they are basically saying is that because Rev Keller is a social conservative, therefore he can’t be awarded or recognized by Princeton.”

    This is a gross, and hopefully not intentional, misrepresentation of the reasons PTS folk are objecting Keller receiving an award. The problem, easily gleaned from a fair reading of the article, is that Keller’s theology deliberately excludes almost half of the members of the institution giving him an award for his contribution to theological discourse. It is not simply that he is a “social conservative;” it is that he doesn’t think half of the population is fit to serve the church on the same basis as the other half.

    Why should PTS *award* someone who’s theology runs directly counter to it’s own?

  • If you like Keller, perhaps you should give him an award and listen to his lecture. But there is no reason PTS should do either.

  • Tim Keller teaches abuse and if it hurts my feelings it should not be happening. Carol Merritt and Traci Smith are trying to convince Princeton that they are victims of Tim Keller. If you want to minister to people who Tim Keller or the likes will never be able to reach please be more confident in why you believe what you believe and less afraid of those who disagree in areas.

  • Not about mere “disagreement” when that disagreement is rooted in the exclusion and slander of whole groups of people. Please stop pretending this is about silencing different voices. It is about not *honoring*–as exceptional, as meritorious–the theology of a pastor whose theology says some people are inherently unfit to serve the church on the same basis as others.

  • Racism is discrimination based on the color of skin. Sexism is discrimination based on the shape of skin.

    Given Princeton Theological Seminary (PTS) has no problem awarding an advocate of sexism, will a future award winner be someone who supports racism? Why not since Abraham Kuyper?s theology has often been understood as the inspiration of the South African theology for Apartheid (check out his Stone Lectures at PTS).

    PTS should not be recognizing Keller or Kuyper, but follow PCUSA creeds, including Brief Statement of Faith that some of PTS faculty helped write:

    “The same Spirit
    who inspired the prophets and apostles
    rules our faith and life in Christ through Scripture,
    engages us through the Word proclaimed,
    claims us in the waters of baptism,
    feeds us with the bread of life and the cup of salvation,
    and calls women and men to all ministries of the church.”

    Bruce Gillette
    Princeton Theological Seminary, MDiv Class 1984, ThM Class 1985

  • It’s my hope that Keller does not attend and give his planned talk on church planting because the last thing we need is more Progressive Liberal social groups which refer to themselves as, “churches”.

  • If part of the umbrage in this thread, and it seems to be, is about the $10,000 awarded to Mr. Keller, then I submit that in his world and that of anyone else likely to receive the award in question, such a sum is mere chump change. For those who disagree with his theology to the extent that they are emotionally overwrought by it, then I would argue that you must not have much confidence in your own position to be so affected. This is a tempest in a teapot that will fade from memory as soon as the next “untoward award” is gifted.

  • I’m sure you understand, Princeton is the name of the town where both the seminary and the university are placed. Here’s a little about their history, and their relationship. https://blogs.princeton.edu/mudd/2015/10/dear-mr-mudd-princeton-theological-seminary/, explaining why Princeton Theological Seminary is a different sort of institution than Yale Divinity School or Harvard Divinity School which are departments, if you will, of their respective universities, governed by their trustees. Princeton Seminary and Princeton University have different presidents, and different trustees unlike those institutions. A graduate of Princeton Seminary has a Princeton Seminary diploma, not a Princeton University diploma. They apply to the seminary, not the university for matriculation.

    Princeton Seminary is an institution of the Presbyterian Church, (USA) the university is not. Princeton Seminary is a peer institution to other seminaries in the PCUSA, among them., McCormick Theological Seminary, Austin Theological Seminary, San Francisco Theological Seminary, and Columbia Theological Seminary (which is in Atlanta, also no relation to the Ivy League University which shares its name.)

  • After reading the article and attending commentary I was reminded of my own biases and will redouble my efforts not to be a “Convenient Christian”. This issue brings to mind my reading of Acts 23 and the “religiosity” of the Sanhedrin. I am thankful that I am learning not to confuse the Church of man with the Church of God.

  • He is solid on doctrine. Many christian sects today are following a feel good gospel which is not a gospel.

  • We have all these liberal universities that teach bible courses and do damage to doctrine and exegesis vs eisegesis to scripture no wonder we see the idiots like in those mega texas churches prosper: Ken copeland is the biggest buffoon of them all. Willow Creek is an emergent church and the charismatic churches and the RCC are theological cults but not the kool aid drinking kind. It’s atrocious..Tim keller’s books are killer reads!

  • Listen to his points, but honoring him is a different beast. This choice is a slap in the face to women and to the lgbtq community. As a southerner, I have recently been both surprised and dismayed by how northeastern universities don’t seem to understand the difference between listening to people and honoring them. I suppose I expected better. I’m thinking of Yale’s controversy over Calhoun and its administration’s concern that it would be erasing history if it changed the name of a site originally meant to honor him. This is, by the way, the same argument made by the Klan at the SC statehouse in relation to the Confederate flag. You do not have to honor people in order to listen to them or to remember them. And if in the process of honoring someone, an institution goes out of its way to dishonor targeted groups, perhaps it’s time for the people in that institution to be more careful in their choices.

  • Princeton Seminary and the Presbyterian Church in general should quit meddling in politics and concentrated on preaching and teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

  • So I wanted to take a moment here because I am a PTS student and one of the main authors of the letter sent from our LGBTQ on-campus group, called BGLASS, and the Women’s Center. I’ve provided the link below so you can actually read our concerns before you make assumptions about our position.

    Here is the link:
    https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/open-letter-to-the-abraham-kuyper-center#scrollTo–4240093

    Something that seems to have evaded people in this discussion from its beginning – and I am not sure why, because I think the letter is incredibly clear on this point – we are not looking to censor free speech or limit academic dialogue. I, for one, grew up in a very conservative environment as a gay man and I know firsthand how to remain in dialogue with people that both disagreed with my theological convictions and rejected my call to ministry. I have been on countless coffee dates trying to learn and understand from people different than I, even people that stared me down to tell me that there was something wrong with me.

    The issue is not academic freedom. Our intention with the letter was to highlight our concern that Tim Keller not be awarded a $10,000 prize when he stands in complete opposition to the values that the PC(USA) upholds, as does Princeton Theological Seminary. Indeed, the hallmark of his denomination is the exclusion of women. To that point there is no dispute.

    To those who level accusations of fascism, or that we are “snowflakes” who are unable to hear people that disagree with us is a complete distortion of our argument and signals clearly that you have not done your due diligence to read and intellectually parse our arguments. If you want to have a theological discourse about inclusivity, be my guest.

    There could have been a way to invite Rev. Tim Keller graciously for dialogue, but a $10,000 prize? Absolutely not.

  • If that’s so then they are fraudulent to begin with as they are using P.U.’s brand to advance themselves.

  • Hell, we can handle this “difference of opinion” just fine, thank you, but when you honor someone with reprehensible opinions you dishonor yourself.

  • It seems like a sexist pig like Keller is the one following a feel good gospel which is not a gospel as he has given his group status over those outside of it and claimed divine authoriteh to do so. The man is a fraud and persons of character spit and defy his false assertions of authoriteh.

  • It’s easy to be a critic especially when one be never listened to any or very few sermons nor read a single page or books he has written. He never wrote a “feel good “NarrAtive as you like to call it..but he has solidified the hardships of true Gospel response and responsibilitys many embrace wholeheartedly. Read a book of his..before beheAding him like you’Re some ISIS JIHADIST MENTALMIDGIT nonsense propaganda you adhere to. Good day.

  • You needn’t say, “if that’s so,” you can look it up. They’ve been Princeton Theological Seminary since 1810. The University was founded in 1756, and the area was known by that name before that. There are also lots of businesses listed in the Princeton Chamber of Commerce named for the town. There is no Yale, Connecticut (the town is New Haven) or Harvard, Massachusettes, (the university is in Cambridge) — but there is a Princeton, New Jersey. That’s where they got the name. Like San Francisco Theological Seminary. Louisville Theological Seminary. Austin Theological Seminary. All Presbyterian seminaries named for the city where they are located.

  • If Christians who baptize babies and Christians who refuse to baptize babies can love one another and respect one another’s contribution to the church without accusing people of sins like “ageism” or “literally shaking with grief” why can’t Christians who ordain and don’t ordain women show respect for one another without rancor?

    If the stakes are really so high with women’s ordination, are they LESS high with the “least of these” who are infants?

    Princeton’s theology descends from the reformed wing of calvin and zwingli. Zwingli executed baptists who refused to open the sacrament of baptism to infants, by drowning them. I’m disappointed that a zwinglian spirit lingers today, seeing those who won’t ordain women as some kind of poisoners who would, I presume, be guilty of mass deaths.

  • An egalitarian woman who worked with Keller on staff at redeemer said that he had no problem with their work for the church and that they consider the semiinary’s actions shocking.

  • I don’t view this as a referendum on Keller’s character.

    For this to be shocking, one would have to imagine Redeemer Presbyterian offering a $10,000 preaching award to Sally Brown, a member of the Princeton faculty. Wouldn’t happen, would it?

    As the petition notes, this is his published position on the role of women, which is at odds with the position of the PCUSA, and PTS. And to be given an award for Reformed Theology by an institution in which half of the student body is female, seems plenty odd. It seems plenty odd that he would accept it, actually.

    “I affirm and support the PCA’s belief in male headship in the home and church. I would never want to see our denomination compromise its support of this biblical complementarianism. Along with Ligon Duncan, I have never seen a credible biblical case made for the ordination of women to be elders or pastors. And when I see some of my friends try to make such a biblical case, I find their use of Scripture alarming and disturbing.” http://byfaithonline.com/the-case-for-commissioning-not-ordaining-deaconesses/

    So is it really that shocking that alumni, students and staff at PTS are non-plussed by this award?

  • I find the term “sexist pig” not helptful, to say the least. This is about the dignity of human beings, including women, and lgbt people. I couldn’t disagree more with Keller’s “complementarianism” and view it as harmful. But I suspect you don’t know him, and neither do I. To be a fraud implies he is not dealing in good faith, and that is a claim without evidence.

  • We are not asking to silence Keller and certainly not planning to drown him. We object to him being given a $10,000 award by an institution in which women are trained to be preachers and leaders. Fully half the student body in fact. This is a theological impossibility in his mind. Some of us think this annual, prestigious award could be given to encourage scholars and leaders who at least respect the mission of the institution giving the prize. Is that really so hard to understand?

  • I echo those who say, contrary to what the leader of PTS suggests, that the point is not to censor Keller or keep him from speaking at PTS. Either of those things would indeed go against important principles of free speech. The point is that PTS should not HONOR with a major AWARD someone who believes that women and LGBTQIA people, who make up roughly half of PTS’s student body, should be excluded from certain important positions in church leadership. This isn’t about “whiny liberals trying to block free speech” or however you want to put. Read what people are saying more carefully!

  • He claims women cannot do what men can, so that’s what he is. If it’s not helpful, then he should repent.

  • Amen! When everything is said and done. This is the only thing that is important! Our views are so mixed with the views of the this culture that we loose site of what we are called to do. I read many of the comments and they are so mired in political views instead of the perspective of God’s view which is written in His Word. Its that simple.

  • Arm chair critics who have never turned a page in the New Testament concerning doctrine Paul the Apostle wrote have yet to convince me of their tiring intellect..as yours. I have issues is not a response it conveys intolerance and total ignorance on your part. Thank you for revealing such inadequacies you purposely have displayed on social media.the man you denigrate Mr.Keller is intellectually a strong advocate of such matters in the New Testament. Instead of “I have issues” try reading for once IN your life and get. A. Commentary to understand the context of biblical studies. Your approach is like Bill Mahers..to get an audience clap as some here did with you in agreeing with you.. Post modernism is a a weak Faith..many will say “my truth is paramount to the Bibles” there is no conversation once you turn that corner..thus you use the tired line..you have issues…yes I think you do have issues.

  • Are we to make decisions that reflect the church body based on our political views (man’s view) or based upon God’s view which is written in His Word?

  • Half the student body! PTS..seriously #! Half…do you have in possession that pertinent info.in some document..I’ll bet that was a hubris comment.

  • Where were these opposing views when the Kuyper committee was considering the award for Tim Keller? To announce the award and then retract it suggests that the committee is not as representative of the larger PTS community as it ought to have been. Or, that they and the trustees are spineless in their willingness to defend their decisions. Neither are appealing attributes.

  • Your point of view seems to reject the fact that Jesus himself took on his culture and meddled in the political issues of the day by allegory and action. If all Christians did was preach and teach, the Church would have died out long ago.

  • Funny. I’ve studied more of the Bible than you fundamentalist sorts ever will. I’m not sure what Maher has to do with this. He was funny as that law partner of Geena Davis’ in her sitcom “Sara.”

    Bottom line, your boy Keller got announced to receive an award, then they announced he would not get it because of his reprehensible theological legerdemain to justify sexism. Thus once the good people won and this poor excuse for an academic gets a speech but no certificate. If he would get what he’d deserve he get the same sort of reception Milo Yiannopoulous gets when he shows up on a campus, but the seminary sorts are much too polite for that. Even so, a good result.

    Being a fundamentalist and trying to shout down someone immune to your false arguments has got to be frustrating. That’s OK. Life goes on.

  • Oh Really! It seems to me that “the culture of Jesus’ time and the political issues of the day” all came forth from moral issues that underwrite individual and group behaviors. IF Christians would simply preach and teach the Gospel, there would be many fewer cultural and political issues to try and confront! The Gospel changes people from the inside-out, not the outside-in!

  • Keller is using hermeneutics tools to define Greek and Hebrew words. His biblical work is based around how doctrine matters. Yet liberal’s have a hard time with exegesis rules or most any rules to discern notably.Yet you say I’m shouting, that’s a ruse of the “left”; no one is shouting but you because you want to disregard biblical contexts and RULES to understand the authors intent not your own biased interpretation.Keller has it right on how women are loved and considered in biblical thought. try using your degree in biblical context and not going by the biasedness of a liberal professors so called interpretation..its like fake news in the media- the journalists cant or don’t use their degrees in journalism so they slant everything to a leftist ideology to shape opinion Your professors DID the SAME..when they (Journalists) finally figure it out maybe their ratings will go up and their credibility as well..gee wouldn’t that be refreshing … get it? Read between the lines professor.

    “Fake news” has become a subject of real news. But there’s nothing new about “fake news.” Holocaust deniers have generated fake news for decades. The deniers have funded “research” “institutes,” “journals,” books, magazines, videos, websites, newsflashes – all designed to provide a patina of academic respectability to demonstrable falsehoods; this is no different in higher education and Princeton Theological Seminary is no exception.

  • Just like fundamentalism. Thank you.

    “…women are loved and considered in biblical thought….” Sounds like how slaveholders preached to the slaves how fortunate they were to be the slaves of Christians. No, anything which places limitations on what women are permitted to do which are not also placed on men, is oppression, no matter how hard you try to pretty it up.

  • Princeton – in the last generation – has produced no one even comparably as impactful as Keller. Mainline institutions are dying. This is among the many reasons why. I hope this only accelerates their demise.

  • This is silly. For 1900 years the church advanced embracing exactly the kind of practice exemplified by Keller. Now the mainline is dying due to this form of heterodoxy.

  • Take into account of the culture of that time –its like comparing that time to this time as apples and pineapples

  • non christians in those times also had slaves. When christianity came it slowly changed the dynamic of those societies to not have slaves.Today we abhore slavery yet the muslim ISIS men take people presently and enslave them in sex trafficking . Many people in 3’rd world societies have slavery and it is wrong. christianity in no part of our world today upholds slavery- yet look at the societies that do.

    we were talking about hermeneutics and greek- hebrew of biblical context and yet as a lefty as your self- you change the subject matter to make another point- another ruse of the left that cant or will not answer the first question about RULES of context in biblical interpretations. Quit changing subject matter or else were pretty much at a standstill- Princeton Seminary IS a beehive of liberal professors who DO bend the theological to suit their will and their opinion on wary students making them so left leaning to take on a post modernism thought that looking at biblical thought (for its time) becomes anathema.

  • Princeton theological seminary needs to get out of the P.C. business of denigrating Keller and biblical context otherwise no one can make a statement of opinion..so Princeton is closed minded due to p.c. policies to shout down any opposition and that is you sir- fascist left leaning ideology is slavery.that’s oppression and slavery if that’s how YOU want it. So slave owner of p.c ideology try to use your degree before commencing with the shouts…by changing the subject matter and quit being so eisegesis for once.

  • One more thought Princeton Theological Seminary used left wing tactics of OPPRESSION=slavery to their P>C> stance on Keller- so there you have it Princeton turns out slave drones from their lovely University setting. That’s oppression not only towards Keller but also to students who are more than likely oppressed in their papers to professors who look at all their hard work through P.C. lenses of their world. That is OPPRESSION and that is slavery..so be a slave to your own p.c. values my friend and ohh just ignore our first conversation when I presented to you rules of context I so mentioned earlier. Have a great day and don’t let the p.c. door hit you in the butt on the way out.

  • Yes the leftist dialogue always denigrates others or is devisive on race issues..calling him a sexist pig is onerous at best and it subplants decent conversAtion. Leave it to the basest lowest level for many sore losers of the left who basically cannot still believe what’s her name lost in her election on prom night as she was surprisingly DUMPED. We had had enough of self interest politicians to keep them from more marxism ideology as she so obviously addored.

  • PTS is enslaved to political correctness.as most liberal institutions in higher education bow down to. Sort of like Baal worship of the anti god..with a patinA of academia on the surface to look respectable.

  • Doctrine matters..order in the body of Christ..you need to read the passages that are pertinent to Christianity. It started in the Garden.

  • No one..it’s the onerous leftist feel gooders who take Keller to task as to what scripture actually says..so the liberals cry foul and say its a hate crime.

  • Fundamentalism loves to denigrate “pc” but they just advocate their own form of it. Sometimes they call it “orthodoxy” – same animal.

  • Precisely why early church history is a poor reference for opposing gender equality. Thank you.

  • Not all on the left, if that is what you mean by a “leftist.” And is it not denigrating to refer to a presidential candidate as a rejected prom date? But perhaps you just stumbled onto the wrong message board. We weren’t talking about the election.

  • Fundamentals realize the neutering of p.c…it doesn’t explain the. Content but hides behind a patina of intellect.you’re neutered intellectually by p.c.ing your need to dumb down the content.you also still did not answer my previous question.

  • Kangaroo seems to have all the answers but cant answer not one of my questions and refers to a tactic of switch and bait..he is neither a theological student and if he is- he listened to marxist leftists professors who mangled scripture- FUBAR

  • I’m not familiar with the theological term FUBAR. Is that a scriptural reference known in more conservative church circles?

  • I don’t regard political correctness as my strong suit either..I’ll get my point across by any means..

  • So help me understand. A conservative Christian is against “political correctness,” which he defines as whatever it was that was keeping the brakes on using the f-word in a periodical open to readership of any age. I thought avoidance of such language was something else– maturity, common decency, civility, respect for others, manners. I can’t imagine Keller is thrilled at being defended by your comment.

    And all this because you don’t think you could make your point in, well, English? Has it occurred to you that you are forcing people to deal with your tone and they might never get to your point?

  • listen don’t get all worked up over a WW-2 expression.: FUBAR has been around a lot longer and is a great acronym without having to say the F word..may the virgin ears of our society forever blame the WW-2 vets. its sardonic humor. As for Keller he is stellar in his dissertations and books. As a devout christian //no ones perfect..and im sure your friends could attest to your behaviour at times as well..take some inventory before casting judgement,.as Jesus it is better to forgive than to dwell on the sins of others..paraphrased of course.

  • as for our past 8 years of marxist behaviour from a derelict president who played hop scotch with the US constituion i say fubar to that as well..it sardonic and it fits. Princeton as well!

  • I am concerned about a society in which even the Christians don’t care about common decency, maturity and respect. My father, a WWII vet, would never have used that term.

  • I’m just as concerned my friend..many people have been through a hellish 8 years of insults from the left. yet to receive them from the right conservatives is indicative as to how they treat each other in congress..republicans can’t circle a wagon against the left and come together without shooting the hell out of each other over “PETTY” differences.In fact i detest the word and use usually milder language. I’ve been through some pretty bad stinky S–t from moron idiots who run corporations. at least the democratic liberals know how to circle a wagon and shoot at the enemy ..this is why finger pointing within the church gets me down time after time…its time the church grow up and realize were not perfect, were not from the same shoe leather of all our pasts. were just as fubar as the liberals if you know what i mean. take a look at your church setting- i’m sure you and other s walk away at times disillusioned by the people within those walls. I have and have been totally peeod at ministers or lay people getting all uppity in their heavenly perfect lives ..that that is insulting.

  • It is no wonder even christianity in these troubled times that many are walking away..i for one have not. recognize the I’m trying to circle a wagon now..or are you not aware of my intent. Keller would have my back- in fact after listening to a huge amount of his sermons..i’m inclined to believe this guy has had a few bad days himself and has muttered some obscenity under his breath- that makes him far more human than the pat me on the back christians in church who hate me behind my back…I’d get in a foxhole and shoot the enemy with Keller anyday of the week.

  • I find this whole discussion below to be rather strange. Despite the differences of understanding of scripture or political leanings I thought that we were in the business of the great commission that is making disciples or bringing people into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. What I read below if it represents the PTS graduate or faculty would not encourage me to even consider a PTS graduate. The sniping, calling names and actual admission that if we use strong swear words in acronyms we have avoided the actual word is simply not acceptable within those who are supposedly representatives of Christ. It certainly also is not inclusive of all, only of certain groups which have been identified elsewhere. This comment section is a poor representation of PTS.

  • Straw man.

    No theological conservative I know, including Keller, who was my pastor for 10 years, thinks that women are, “unfit” to serve as leaders. We understand the scriptures clearly teach that they are not called to such a role.

    This isn’t about being, “mean” which I know is the unpardonable sin in the eyes of Liberals. This is about being faithful to what we’ve been charge with.

    Redeemer Presbyterian Church (NYC) excludes no one. Have you been? I highly recommend it.

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