Paula White, center right, one of President Trump's evangelical advisers, and participants at the Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom at the U.S. Department of State in Washington on July 24, 2018. Photo by State Department/Public Domain

A religious freedom summit can't undo Trump's record on Islam

(RNS) — This week’s State Department ministerial on international religious freedom has been a well-orchestrated, if hastily organized, event with a sense of common purpose rarely seen in the current administration.

It prominently features the work of the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, as bipartisan a body as you’ll find in Washington these days. The foreign ministers and religious leaders from around the world all concur that politics should be the furthest thing from anyone’s mind when it comes to a universal value like advancing religious freedom.

Yet it doesn’t take an expert to see that politics are everywhere in the United States’ current approach to religious freedom.

It’s plain, to begin with, that the impetus for putting on the event has much to do with President Trump’s indebtedness to conservative evangelical Christians for his election. To their credit, American evangelicals have engaged religious freedom issues for some time.

But the dominance of evangelicals in this sphere carries with it costs and oversights, including excessive deference to politicians and co-religionists who have shown hostility toward Islam.

In a meeting last month, Sam Brownback, the former Kansas senator and governor who is now U.S. ambassador-at-large for international religious freedom, reportedly lobbied British Ambassador Sir Kim Darroch on behalf of an English anti-Muslim activist, Tommy Robinson, now in jail in the United Kingdom. A State Department spokesman called characterizations of Brownback’s meeting with Darroch “completely false” but did not comment further.

Sam Brownback, U.S. ambassador-at-large for international religious freedom, gives opening remarks at the Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom at the State Department on July 24, 2018. RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks


 This image is available for web publication. For questions, contact Sally Morrow.

Brownback should comment further. Americans deserve to know what the United States’ interest is in a notorious bigot who has been associated with Steve Bannon, the erstwhile Trump adviser and white nativist. Brownback, who has done too little to distance himself from the anti-Muslim sentiments of the president who nominated him, should also take the opportunity to renounce positions that mar his leadership on religious freedom, including his support for Trump’s travel ban.

The White House’s equating of religious freedom with evangelical causes is apparent in its three recent nominations for USCIRF, which went to Christian political operative Gary Bauer; the Rev. Johnnie Moore, one of Trump’s liaisons to the religious right; and Nadine Maenza, who served as an aide to former Pennsylvania Republican Sen. Rick Santorum.

Trump is not alone in handing off this issue to evangelicals. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell used his USCIRF nomination to appoint Family Research Council President Tony Perkins, a longtime leader in the religious right who has made disqualifying statements about Islam.

Nobody in the capital seems to be above politics when it comes to religious freedom, of course: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer appointed Gayle Manchin to USCIRF, where she serves as vice chair. She happens to be the wife of West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, a vulnerable Democrat facing re-election this year and being pressed by Republicans to switch parties.

But the disgusting anti-Muslim sentiments of Trump and some of his supporters besmirch the argument that religious freedom is a cornerstone diplomatic priority, and, frankly, call the whole project into question.

The question is whether the ministerial, and religious freedom itself, can rise above the politics to serve a higher purpose.

The answer is likely yes. While undoubtedly a boost for evangelicals that Trump can tout as another "win,” the ministerial can only foster collaborations among the assembled government officials, civil-society representatives and faith groups and encourage them in their work ahead.

It is critical, however, for the gathering to hold the White House to account for its failures to stand up for everyone affected by religious persecution. In a thoughtful op-ed in the Globe Post, University of Vermont Professor Peter Henne says religious freedom advocates often “prize institutional access too highly.”

The well-meaning advocates who accepted the State Department’s invitation this week despite Trump's record on Islam need to say plainly that Trumpism and international religious freedom contradict each other in ways we cannot ignore.

(Jacob Lupfer, a frequent commentator on religion and politics, is a writer and consultant in Baltimore. His website is www.jacoblupfer.com. Follow him on Twitter at @jlupf. The views expressed in this commentary do not necessarily represent those of Religion News Service.)

Comments

  1. Conservatives, especially of an evangelical bent have never cared for religious freedom.

    They attack free exercise of religion of others and seek to give their faith government established authority.

    When they use the term “religious freedom”, it is Orwellian in nature. A euphemism to declare themselves above the law and attack others with impunity.

    So any expectations that Trump, his cronies, or Christian fundamentalist attention whres are going to make any progress in promoting religious freedom is a joke.

  2. what about undoing Mohammed’s views of Christianity and Judaism?

  3. you’re actually being used by islamists who seek to distort and destroy western culture from within. Islam seeks global domination, that is written in its doctrine. The same cannot be said for Christianity. Lazy relativists say “all religions are the same” yet seem to attack a nonexistent Christian Theocracy boogeyman. I’m guessing you watch the Handmaiden’s Tale too, doncha?

  4. Spuddie is being used by the AFL-CIO, the LBGTQ lobby, the Americans For the Separation of Church and State (and Commonsense), the DNC, and at least a dozen other isms, movements, and lobbies.

    Adding Islamists to the mix will hardly be noticed.

  5. Thank you ISIS stooge. You are not only parroting their propaganda you are attacking the chief weapons against them. A free society which upholds it’s principles. You would destroy our nation and everything it stands for in a panic. Fools like you are more valuable to ISIS than any terrorist operative. My guess is the sight of a hijab would send you into.apoplexy and you think Keith Ellison is a spy.

  6. You talked to him recently? I am 1000% sure you never read the Koran beyond quotes on a hate site.

    The first amendment means nobody ever has to care what others think about s given religion. It also means nobody has to follow the sectarian dictates of one either. If you are really concerned about religious fundamentalists, then defend our own laws. If you can’t. You are the problem.

  7. “ISIS” stooge is new.

    Coming from the AFL-CIO, LBGTQ lobby, Americans For the Separation of Church and State (and Commonsense), DNC, and at least a dozen other isms, movements, and lobbies stooge it is pretty amusing.

  8. >”You talked to him recently”

    Gonna ask that of the 1.6 b people who worship him?

    >” I am 1000% sure you never read the Koran beyond quotes on a hate site”
    And you’d be 1000% incorrect, but thanks for projecting your own inadequacies

    The first amendment means that there will be no GOVERNMENT MANDATED religion. If I created a religion that said “God has ordained that all families must give one of their daughters to me”, would you say I have the freedom to have that enforced? Muslims are forcing employers to give them paid prayer breaks and allocate special prayer spaces for them.

  9. I’m not a muslim, and I don’t revere the pedophile Mohammed, so clearly I’m not ISIS. Maybe more of a Crusader. Funny how we don’t have words like ‘cancerphobia’, nor do we advocate that cancer has its own rights, we shouldn’t fight it when it is in our bodies, right?

  10. Keith Ellison a spy? Probably not. Member or associate of the Nation of Islam? Absolutely.

  11. Also ANTIFA, BLM and the open borders society.

  12. And that is why you’re an 1diot.

    Islamicists hate the guy.
    http://www.citypages.com/news/isis-threatens-keith-ellison-other-moderate-muslims-8201922

    American Muslims are more effective at catching terrorists than profiling and violating civil rights of communities
    https://warisboring.com/american-muslims-turn-in-lots-of-terrorists/

    ISIS wants people to attack religious freedom and mistreat Muslim communities
    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-islamic-states-assault-on-the-gray-zone-2ba6bbcb24fb

  13. You are certainly parroting ISIS rhetoric and propaganda to the letter. You are doing their job for free. You are attacking the chief sources of effective action against them. They could not ask for a better stooge than yourself.
    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-islamic-states-assault-on-the-gray-zone-2ba6bbcb24fb

    There is no such thing as a sane argument that states “_____ religion is evil”. Unless the answer is “Every”, all you are doing is spewing sectarian hate. BTW something ISIS wants you to do as well. They want people to take shortcuts with democracy and liberty. They thrive in unfree environments.

    Ironically, white supremacists and ISIS have the same enemies list. Go figure
    https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/opinions/striking-similarities-between-jihadis-and-kkk-sciutto/index.html
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/isis-and-the-far-right-have-the-same-enemies-list

  14. Anyone who can claim that 1.6 billion people believe the same thing is either delusional or so full of crap that they cannot be taken seriously (or both).

    “And you’d be 1000% incorrect, but thanks for projecting your own inadequacies”

    Not showing me anything there to change my mind.

    “The first amendment means that there will be no GOVERNMENT MANDATED religion”

    Wrong-o-rino. Its precisely that kind of nonsense which enables religious extremists of any faith. The first amendment means not only are religious beliefs protected as a matter of law, but they are protected by keeping government and religion apart from each other. The separation of church and state protects both from each other.

    “If I created a religion that said “God has ordained that all families must give one of their daughters to me”, would you say I have the freedom to have that enforced? ”

    Wrong-o-mundo. Nothing I have said could possibly have given you the impression that was my position. You are now making crap up for my position instead of treating it honestly. If you were familiar with my positions you would not make up such a terrible position and pretend its mine.

    So naturally you think discrimination against gays does not get excused by Christian belief, right?

    ” Muslims are forcing employers to give them paid prayer breaks and allocate special prayer spaces for them.”

    Actually they aren’t. The are asking for accommodations and work-arounds. Like devout Christians who won’t work on Sundays or devout Jews who won’t work Friday evenings and Saturdays.

    But its good to know you are willing to lie about other things as well.

  15. Did he hang with the Nation of Islam or not?

  16. >”Anyone who can claim that 1.6 billion people believe the same thing is
    either delusional or so full of crap that they cannot be taken seriously
    (or both).”

    Now you’re being retarded right? You HAVE to believe that “There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger” TO BE A MUSLIM. So YES, that is what they believe. I really doubt you’ll extend the same standard and say “Not all Nazis were following Hitler”

    >”Not showing me anything there to change my mind”

    That’s because you’ve decided to go with a charicature of me instead of what I’m saying.

    >”Its precisely that kind of nonsense which enables religious extremists of any faith. The first amendment means not only are religious beliefs protected as a matter of law, but they are protected by keeping government and religion apart from each other. The separation of church
    and state protects both from each other.

    You do realize ‘separation of church and state’ isn’t actually IN the law, right? That’s from a paper Jefferson wrote. And no, the first amendment means there is no government religion. Apparently such freedom enables you to be retarded.

    >”Wrong-o-mundo. Nothing I have said could possibly have given you the impression that was my position”

    You just said all religious stuff should be protected, you just don’t want to be called a hypocrite.

    >”So naturally you think discrimination against gays does not get excused by Christian belief, right?”

    And now you’re confusing Judaism with Christianity…

    >”Actually they aren’t. The are asking for accommodations and work-arounds. Like devout Christians who won’t work on Sundays or devout Jews who won’t work Friday evenings and Saturdays

    Actually, they are. The muslim ISS security employees protested Amazon two MayDays ago for just that, designated prayer room, paid prayer breaks multiple times a day, and demanding all prayer rooms face mecca, so naturally they’d have to hire coordinators, who have to be muslim, to coordinate the time, since it changes by minutes every day. Then there’s the demand for halal certified food, so not only do you have to get the food, but you have to pay the extortion money for the certification.

    It’s a death by 1000 cuts method. And nope, not lying here.

  17. No, I don’t think you’ve read any ISIS propaganda. I’m not calling for infidels to be killed. “The chief sources”? LOL yeah, keep being gullible dhimmi. The only thing that kept them in check were leaders like Gaddafi and Saddam.

    >”There is no such thing as a sane argument that states “_____ religion is evil”. Unless the answer is “Every”, all you are doing is spewing sectarian hate

    Oh so, then that applies to humans? I can’t single out any and say certain individuals are evil? I have to say “All humans are evil?” Oh.. wait.. all humans aren’t the same? All books arn’t the same? All movies aren’t the same? So then.. why are all religions “the same”?

    Oh.. CNN.. yeah you’re really losing credibility..

  18. “BTW something ISIS wants you to do as well. They want people to take shortcuts with democracy and liberty.”

    Soo…. I’m guessing you actually ARE a member of ISIS since you seem to know everything they want and believe? ISIS wants a global caliphate.

  19. International Religious Freedom is a term which should be (should be) an international effort to get freedom from the historic fibs and excesses spawned by religions. This appears to be a conference dedicated to the opposite. I mean, these attendees could agree, for instance, for religions to merge and boil the doctrines down to the Golden Rule——dropping the rest of the hoopla. But——-they won’t. They are all there to learn how to better grind their axes.

  20. There is a significant difference between Islam and other world religions. Islam sees politics and religion woven together, in its writings and in its goals. Therefore it seeks world dominion, not in the spiritual sense, as many religions do, but in the actual governing of nations and rule: hence sharia law. Consider: if a Catholic, or Protestant or Jew, decides to return to a closer walk with their Creator, what do they do? They pray more, humble themselves, focus on glorifying God in their daily walk, seek the face of their Creator and seek to love and care for others in a more kind and sacrificial way. They acknowledge that the reign of men is nothing compared to God’s kingdom and that worldly rule does not change the hearts of men. That is radically different from what an Islamacist does if he returns to his religion’s roots. And that is what plays out when we see terrorists act.

  21. What planet have you been living on? Evangelical Christianity is hard at work melding their religious faith with government, and writing their sectarian beliefs into law. The reject the idea of a separation between church and state. For example, the want their religious views on marriage to be given the force of law and everyone forced to follow it, even if they aren’t Evangelical. The whole “Dominionism”theology that teaches that Evangelicals should seek positions of political power to give their faith the force of law and enforce it on everyone has been going on since the 1980’s.

  22. Nice try Sparky. Its called reading the news. You know, from actual sources providing information. I have already posted links on this thread to demonstrate my point.

    “ISIS wants a global caliphate.”

    And…..?

    You are parroting their propaganda and falling in line with making recruitment and operations easier. ISIS Stooge.

  23. “There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger” ”
    And this is different from there is one god and Jesus is his son? Nope.

    You are pretending that ISIS represents the entirety of the Muslim faith. That is exactly what ISIS wants you to say. It serves their purpose. In reaction you want to see Muslims treated badly under color of law and considered enemies as a matter of course. Also what they want because it aids recruiting and creates support networks for them.

    “You do realize ‘separation of church and state’ isn’t actually IN the law, right?”

    Now you are giving me Y’all Queda Wallbuilders fiction. Separation of church and state is the underlying concept behind the establishment clause. The concept actually predates the Constitution by about a century.

    To attack separation of church and state is also to attack free exercise of religion. It is to support ISIS like goals of government entangled with religion.

    “You just said all religious stuff should be protected, you just don’t want to be called a hypocrite.”

    I support our first amendment and religious freedom. You do not. You find it inconvenient to your goals. Just like ISIS does.

    “now you’re confusing Judaism with Christianity…”

    ?????? (I suspect there was an antisemitic tone there. Just like ISIS as well)

    “The muslim ISS security employees protested Amazon two MayDays ago”

    So collective bargaining is now an ISIS plot as well?At no point were such demands given color of law. They are negotiated terms. You lied there as well.

    So all in all, based on your responses, YOU HAVE MORE IN COMMON WITH ISIS THAN I EVER WILL.

  24. ” I’m not calling for infidels to be killed. ”

    You just want Muslims to be killed. That is all. Just what ISIS wants. Anti-Muslim hysteria to drive people towards them. You are a great recruiting tool for ISIS

    “Oh so, then that applies to humans?”

    Am I talking to one? I am beginning to doubt that.

    “CNN.. yeah you’re really losing credibility..”

    Alex Jones listener?

    The funny thing is my primary source cited here is a militaria news site warisboring.com.

    Your sources appears to be various hate sites.

  25. “But the dominance of evangelicals in this sphere carries with it costs and oversights, including excessive deference to politicians and co-religionists who have shown hostility toward Islam.”

    To try to pretend that there is no link between Islam and a lack of religious freedom (not to mention terrorism) is to firmly have one’s head stuck in the sand. Checking out the data available at ARDA (http://www.thearda.com/internationalData/ ), comparing majority-Christian nations to majority-Islamic nations, on a scale of 1-10 on government regulation Christian nations average 1.7 while Islamic nations average 5.8; for government favoritism, Christian nations average 4.2 while Islamic nations average 6.2; for social regulation Christian nations are at 3.7 and Islamic nations are at 6.8; for religious persecution Christian nations are at 1.3 while Islamic nations are at 3.3. The world averages are 3.0, 4.7, 4.5 & 2.0.

  26. “’There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger’ And this is different from there is one god and Jesus is his son? Nope.”

    Actually yes.

    Mohammed and Jesus were different people.

    Mohammed did not claim to be divine. Jesus did.

    Jesus cited the Old Testament.

    Mohammed claimed both the Old and the New Testament were adulterated.

    And on and on.

    No wonder you have trouble making sense.

  27. I am already seeing a link between Islamaphobia and attacks on religious freedom just from your post. Demonizing a given faith and undermining religious freedom doesn’t protect free societies from religious fanaticism, it enables it. Of course if your only objection is which religion wants government endorsement and political power, then you are part of the problem as well.

    Let’s also not pretend that nations should use brutal autocracies as benchmarks for behavior. Civilized, free nations aspire to be better then them, not dragged to their level.

    It’s telling that American Christians stump for government entanglement with religion, attack civil liberties laws and stump for religious persecution.

  28. As seen in the recent article here about Israel’s National Identity law, Ultra Orthodox Jews are acting in a similar fashion to American dominionists

  29. You see a lot of things that aren’t there.

    What else is new?

  30. Evangelical Christians have every right to present their views and influence legislation.

    Your friends did that and managed to finagle Obergefell v. Hodges, an eccentric take on American laws and sectarian if there ever was one.

    You wanted your views on marriage to be given the force of law and everyone forced to follow it.

    The whining from your side is just plain silly.

  31. International Religious Freedom is a term which should be an international ban on anti-religious trollers from annoying folks in religious discussion groups.

  32. 1.6 billion Muslims cannot believe the same thing—yes, that is true. But, at the level of intellectual discourse, there is no diversity of thought at all. Muslim op-ed writers are few in number, and those few explore a limited number of themes, namely, we Muslims are victimized by everybody else, or we Muslims are waiting for Europe’s Age of Enlightenment to reach us.

  33. No, I don’t want Muslims killed. I’d prefer they stayed in Muslim nations. They like to say “To you your religion, to us ours”, so I say “to Muslim nations their religion, to Christian nations our religion” (which includes athiests, essentially anything non-muslim). The two ideologies are conflicting and cannot coexist without borders.

    Voltaire and Dante Aleghieri are not Alex Jones, btw

  34. Mohammed and Jesus are complete opposite in character. Mohammed had 16 wives including a little nine year old girl that he diddled and said was his favorite. Jesus was celibate.

    Jesus willingly died and sacrificed himself for his beliefs, while Mohammed hired bandits to attack those who opposed him.

    Better luck next time, Godzuki.

  35. What does a Christian do? If he is of a theocratic bent, he demonizes his fellow citizens as threats, seeks power through political parties and activism, warns everyone about the antichrist for 2000 years and then votes for him when he makes an appearance, decides that discrimination on the basis of religious belief constitutes religious freedom, insists despite the evidence that we are a Christian nation, uses the Bible to justify racial discrimination, demands school prayer but only of the conservative Christian variety, seeks to insert his own particular religious dogma into education, medical decisions, and other peoples’ families.

    For starters.

  36. >”now you’re confusing Judaism with Christianity…”

    >?????? (I suspect there was an antisemitic tone there. Just like ISIS as well)

    I was replying to

    “So naturally you think discrimination against gays does not get excused by Christian belief, right?”

    and clarifying that Judaism is the one that is anti-homosexuality. Christianity doesn’t mention anything about it, only teaching forgiveness. Of course, there was a natural deterrent to homosexuality until humans invented anti-retroviral medications in 1996 at the hefty taxpayer burden of $3000 a month per victim.

  37. You have to believe that Jesus died for your sins. You have to believe that Christianity is the defender of morality, despite its track record.

    Please keep using the word “retarded”. It really makes you look, err, umm, well, I can’t use the word, can I?

  38. The great commission doesn’t exist?

  39. >”You have to believe that Jesus died for your sins.”
    yes, so you admit that Christianity has BASIC TENETS that ALL Christians share. And clearly you don’t actually understand the “die for your sins” bit. He sacrificed himself to end the Judaism covenant and seal it, and begin his covenant. He didn’t wash away the sins FROM people, he sacrificed himself to STOP GOD’S CONSTANT PUNISHMENT upon sinners.

    “You have to believe that Christianity is the defender of morality, despite its track record.”
    No… not sure where you got that one. The message of Christianity is that we are ALL sinners, that there can never be peace ON EARTH, only in the afterlife (if you’re good here), that we are all flawed. Thus, the main message is to forgive others. That’s what “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” means.. that NOBODY should ever be casting stones. (While Islam brings stoning back big time)

  40. not until 1650 apparently.. but tell me again what that has to do with a theocracy?

  41. You are digging the hole deeper there.

    In this country one only sees conservative Christians stumping to ban marriage equality and a right to discriminate against gays, under color of law.

    “Christianity doesn’t mention anything about it”

    There are several regular posters here who would vehemently disagree with you there. Including ones who upvote your posts.

    “there was a natural deterrent to homosexuality until humans invented anti-retroviral medications in 1996”

    Oh look you are bigoted against gays as well as Muslims.

    Keep digging that hole.

  42. Religious freedom means nobody ever has to care what you believe or what you think of the beliefs of others. My concern for your opinion as to which religion is less evil is zero. It’s an inherently dishonest, bigoted and brain dead argument.

    Christians love pedophiles as evidenced by support of Roy Moore and efforts to cover up and silence clergy abuse scandals. So all you are telling me is you are selectively outraged here.

    The only difference between fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims appears to be access to explosives. Otherwise they are in sync with support of theocracy, mass murder, and destroying free societies.

    Someone who loves freedom and democracy points to how all religious fundamentalists are dangerous. An ISIS stooge
    simply supports one type of theocracy over others.

    I am not defending any religion. I am going after the anti democratic, pro terrorist nonsense of sectarian bigotry of all stripes.

  43. You just want them treated as enemies of the state, their religion banned, their people banished from the nation on the basis of their faith.

    Ethnic cleansing. Genocide even when you consider it.

    How very ISIS of you.

    BTW the majority of Muslims in this country are American born converts. Citizens with the same rights as you.

  44. There is diversity of practice, of attitudes and political beliefs and actions. There is no unity or impression of it outside of fundamentalist propaganda. The same is true for any religion larger than 100 people.

  45. you are defending a pedophile’s ‘religion’. And the fact that you brought up Roy Moore again shows you don’t actually know anything outside of what CNN says. Roy Moore NEVER had sex with the girl. He was courting her, and she was 17. Less than a year to become a legal adult. And in some states, like Alabama, you CAN get married with the parent’s permission at the age of 16. 17 is worlds apart from 9. Aisha’s tubes were messed up from getting diddled that she was unable to produce offspring. Tell me how a ‘perfect messenger of God’ got that wrong?

    Again, you’re making up imaginary ‘fundamentalist Christian boogeymen”, yet where are the videos of extreme Christian groups beheading muslims in the last decade? Oh wait, they don’t exist.

    You are a lazy relativist. So does freedom of religion tolerate Nazism? After all, it had its own religion baked into its creed to paint Hitler as the Messiah. Would you tolerate Nazis running for offices? I guess half of Hollywood should be rounded up for being bigoted against Nazis openly calling for people to punch them, right?

  46. So you’re actually proving my point that you’re allowing outside groups to erode definitions of things. The whole point OF marraige isn’t about tax breaks, it’s about a contract, a bond for a man and a woman to be faithful to each other to propogate the species. Gay couples can’t propogate, so for them it’s about manipulating the law to get tax breaks. If gay couples love each other, why do they need marriage?

    Ok, then cite where Jesus commands stoning of homosexuals. I’ll wait.

    I’m not bigotted against gays, I’m just saying that using the anal orifice leads to many diseases, such as HIV, hence the high amount of syphilis in the past. I was raped by a gay guy and now I have to live with HIV/AIDs and relying on the anti-retroviral medication.

    The only ‘hole’ is the one in your head. (btw, that’s the worst Godzilla costume, the 90s was much better)

  47. How is relocating them to the vast number of Muslim countries ethnic genocide again?
    And let’s look at Islam’s track record of genocide shall we? The Armenian Genocide, anyone?
    Or how about Hitler, who PRAISED Mohammed, and despised Christianity’s “meek flabbiness”? He sure got genocidal, didn’t he? Let’s not forget Arab Islamic nations were allied to Hitler (and the Kaiser previously).

    And let’s look at Europe where once Muslims clump up together enough, they start breaking the law or imposing their own, and the police are ineffectual to stop it. So while you look at American muslims now, who are only 1%, I doubt you’re the kind of person who would want to put any measures in place to prevent it reaching 10% much less 50% right?

  48. “An ISIS stooge simply supports one type of theocracy over others”

    Which debunks your claim that I’m an ISIS stooge, since I’m not advocating FOR any theocracy. Christianity doesn’t teach or desire a theocracy. It even says “Render unto Caesar that which is his”. Christianity teaches an individual relationship, not organized religion. That’s what PROMPTED the reform Christ brought, when he saw money lenders in the Jewish temples and the hypocrisy of pharisees and the laws they kept making up using God as an authority. That’s why there is ONLY the Golden Rule in Christianity. So calling me an ISIS stooge just displays your own lack of knowledge, dhimmi.

  49. I found yesterday an article on the American Family Association’s web site (hard right wing Christian group) by Bryan Fischer that stated pretty clearly that states need to reintroduce religious tests for office because too many Muslims are running for office. He went back and cited Revolutionary War-era laws as precedent. It was interesting to note that 1: in many cases the laws spelled out that the person must be Protestant (ruling our not only Muslims but Jews and Catholics among others) 2: even in the AFA’s highly filtered comment section most everyone agreed that this was not acceptable.

    Here’s the hate speech – er, article: https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2018/07/a-dangerous-trend-muslims-running-for-office/

    Bryan Fischer is a horrible person.

  50. well, sadly, this is what lazy relativists have allowed. Many ARE running for office. We had a Somali who’d been in the US for like 4 years running for Seattle’s Port Authority Commissioner position a year or two ago. Fortunately he lost, but he garnered a good size of votes. Look at Rochester Minnesota, where muslims are running for offices and draining the local coffers dry with millions of dollars to the Somali community. Hell, JFK was even called out for being Catholic, and if it weren’t for him making a deal with LBJ as his running mate (who JFK later backstabbed, and got shot for) in order to win. Look at Malaysia and Indonesia and London for that matter. It’s a numbers game. Imitate, infiltrate and subjugate. Now Malaysia and Indonesia both are worried about hardliner Islamists increasing.

  51. Nope. You’re an ISIS stooge. You are acting according to their game plan. Seek the same goals and hate the same thing. ISIS wants fools like you to attack religious freedom and democracy. It helps create radicals, supporters and an environment they work best under.

    “since I’m not advocating FOR any theocracy”

    Given the fact you chimed in as a response to my remarks about Christian fundamentalists and have been trying to handwave their existence, you are very much in favor of Christian theocracy. You even quote their lines against the separation of church and state.

    I don’t give a crap what you think about Islam or Christianity, or any faith. I don’t have to, ever. All religions have the same right to exist and be believed in a free society.

    If you don’t like a given faith, tough crap. Freedom which is selective in such a nature is none at all.

    Your entire argument assumes religion must be entangled with the state. You even want sectarian discrimination under color of law.

    You are an ISIS stooge who hates a free society and acts in service of fundamentalist terrorists. They couldn’t ask for a more useful tool then yourself.

  52. Ask the Cherokee, the Inguish, Ethnic Indian Ugandans, Ethnic Chinese Indonesians, Rohiynga….
    Nazis called their actions deportations and evacuations.

    It is exactly the kind of autocratic bullcrap that ISIS loves. You turn an entire faith into hostiles instead of a weapon against them. They want fools like you to attack Muslims or call for their banishment. Instead of a free people who have no use for radicals you create oppressed communities and outrage.

    You are clearly an ISIS stooge.

  53. We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States

    Asia for the Asians; Africa for the Africans, White Nations are open to everyone. And we will even pay your bills!

  54. Ok, I think we’re done here. Here I am directly telling you what I believe and what I don’t, but you continue to just use your CNN-manufactured stereotype. That analysis is completely the opposite of me, so let me make one last observational laugh at the hypocrisy of “Oh go out and meet and know a muslim!” as if that brings understanding, yet here we are talking and ‘meeting’, yet it brought absolutely zero closer to ‘understanding’.

    Sayonara, Roku-chan.

  55. The only one eroding things is you. You do not protect religious freedom and democracy by crapping on it. You are a bigot who clearly wants your sectarian religious belief to be law.

    Sorry ISIS stooge, but marriage equality already exists. There were no rational and secular arguments in support of banning it. I don’t have to debate it with you. It’s settled law. You don’t like homosexual sex, don’t have it. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes is,never your business. Just like the religious beliefs of others is never your business either.

    You have far more in common with ISIS than I ever will have.

  56. I don’t care what you believe or think of the religions of others. I never have to. I only need concern myself with how people act. Because in a free society the state is separate from the dictates of any church

    You are not the Romans behind the city walk you are the barbarians at the gate. You are the threat to a free nation,not its savior.

  57. Plessy v. Ferguson was once “settled law” as well. Just like Obergefell. Evil, anti-constitutional USSC decisions do happen. And people pretend they are forever.

    But next year? Next decade? We’ll see. Plessy’s gone now. It’s Obergefell’s turn to die.

  58. So not only should there be a religious test for holding office but for voters?

    The general consensus I’ve seen, even among Evangelicals who believe Islam is evil, is that religious tests are not a good thing. Precisely because of the “shoe-on-the-other-foot” rule: if we rule one group out, there is nothing preventing ruling them out.

  59. we were fine with ruling Nazis out in the 40s… the problem is allowing Islam to masquerade as ‘simply a religion’ instead of a complete socio-political ideology. The constitution clearly states that preventing those whose ideology is subversion and usurping our nation’s principles – which Islam clearly states in its doctrine as its goal.

  60. And no one but you cares what you believe or think about anything.

    Seems fair to me.

  61. Ah, a Stooge calling someone a stooge.

  62. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination

    “The ratification of the United Nations Charter in 1945 at the end of World War II placed the right of self-determination into the framework of international law and diplomacy.”

    “Chapter 1, Article 1, part 2 states that purpose of the UN Charter is: ‘To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace.’”

    “Article 1 in both the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)[26] and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR)[27] reads: ‘All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.’”

    ***

    “Criteria for the definition of ‘people having the right of self-determination’ was proposed during 2010 Kosovo case decision of the International Court of Justice: 1. traditions and culture 2. ethnicity 3. historical ties and heritage 4. language 5. religion 6. sense of identity or kinship 7. the will to constitute a people 8. common suffering.”

    That last sounds just like Israel.

  63. But it isn’t anymore. A better reason why “Constitutional Originalism” is a crock. Because we should never hold our society out by attitudes of people centuries ago. Especially on the issue of civil liberties. One of many things our Founders got terribly wrong early on.

    You guys never had a sane argument put forward in Obergfell, just like there was never one against Roe or Casey. Decades of resistance to Brown and Roe have yielded nothing either despite a largely conservative Court for 50+ years. You have always been played.

  64. Go run off. I am sure you need to pick up your check from ISIS. After all such support doesn’t come cheap.

    All you have done is shown what kind of malicious, bigoted, ignorant scum attack our basic freedoms and democratic way of life. All in order to attack a given religion. Exactly the kind of person terrorist groups like ISIS depend on for increasing recruiting efforts.

    “continue to just use your CNN-manufactured stereotype”

    No, I am working off your own brain dead rhetoric. You are the one demanding genocide on the basis of religious faith. You are the one who has no respect for religious freedom. You are the one who sticks their nose into the bedrooms of others (where it never belongs).

    ” “Oh go out and meet and know a muslim!” as if that brings understanding, yet here we are talking and ‘meeting’, yet it brought absolutely zero closer to ‘understanding’.”

    I am not Muslim. You are such a raging ignorant bigot that you assume people who disagree with you must be. Actually I am just a freedom loving American atheist. One who could not give a flying crap what people believe,’ as long as they behave well in public.

    “Sayonara, Roku-chan.”

    Goodbye Sixie???? (Is that supposed to make sense. Did you learn Japanese from watching One Piece anime?)

    Dewa Mata

  65. “Imitate, infiltrate and subjugate.”
    ______________

    That’s exactly what fake “Christians” like Sam Brownback have been doing in politics for many, many years. But where’s your objection to that?

  66. Who has forced you into a gay marriage, Bob? Meanwhile, your precious evangelical “Christians” side with a serial adulterer and sexual predator.

  67. who? what policies are you referring to?

  68. Roku-chan aka “roxanne”. Godzilla vs Megalon. Sheesh, pal.

  69. Do you have some issue against “retarded” human beings (kids and adults with mental impairments)? Stop using that word — it makes you look stupid. Which you obviously are.

  70. I can’t stand that people choose to use that word.

  71. awww poor baby. how does it feel to propagate political correctness?

  72. Plenty of Christian pedophiles out there.

  73. If being being polite to those regarding those who can’t defend themselves is “politically correct”, then yes. Is it polite for you to tell a boy with Down Syndrome that he is retarded? You’re not only stupid, you’re a truly ignorant deplorable. Now fk off loser.

  74. No problem not standing that particular person.

  75. and which of them have a religion dedicated to them, seen as the perfect role model / messenger of God and has 1.6 billion followers ?

  76. except I’m clearly not talking to an actual retarded person, ergo it’s a jab. An actual mentally retarded person, I’d feel bad for. So again, how does it feel to only have morality attacks?

  77. A deep cut from the MST3K version. Jeez. 🙂

  78. Like I said, who? I mean you guys completely distorted the f*ck out of Roy Moore calling him a pedophile, when he was in a state where legally a woman can get married with parent’s permission at 16, and she was 17, and he had not had any sexual intercourse with her. So fill me in on your conspiracy theory for this guy, will ya?

  79. http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/10/democrats-dont-fear-brett-kavanaugh-they-fear-constitution/
    By David Harsanyi

    July 10, 2018

    The other day Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was in Israel to receive an award for her commitment to tikkun olam (“to heal the world” in Hebrew,) a spiritual concept that progressive Jews have long distorted so that their malleable religious views could better align with leftist orthodoxy. It’s the sort of convenient philosophy that allows traditions to be subsumed by the vagaries of contemporary politics.

    So it is with an increasing number of Democrats and the Constitution: a document they seem believe must bend to the will of their policy preferences rather than preserve legal continuity, limited government, individual liberty, or enlightenment ideals.

    Sure, some of the anger aimed Donald Trump’s nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court is partisan bluster meant to placate the activist base. Still, most Democrats were going to get hysterical about any pick, because any conservative pick was going to take the Constitution far too literally for their liking. For those who rely on the administrative state and coercion as a policy tool — forcing people to join political organizations, forcing them to support abortion, forcing them to subsidize socially progressive sacraments, forcing them to create products that undermine their faith, and so on — that’s a big problem.

    Some, like former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, indulged in the histrionic rhetoric we’ve come to expect in the Trump era, claiming that Kavanaugh would “threaten the lives of millions of Americans for decades to come.” But almost none of the objections coming from leading Democrats were, even ostensibly, about Kavanaugh’s qualifications as a jurist or, for that matter, with his interpretation of the Constitution.

    “Specifically,” prospective presidential candidate Kamala Harris argues, “as a replacement for Justice Anthony Kennedy, his nomination presents an existential threat to the health care of hundreds of millions of Americans.” Surely the former attorney general of California comprehends that “health care” is not a constitutional right, but rather a policy concern whose contours are still being debated by lawmakers, and probably will be for decades.

    What Harris probably means is that Kavanaugh is an existential threat to the practice of forcing Americans to buy products in the private marketplace against their will. Kavanaugh, incidentally, upheld Obamacare as an appellate judge for jurisdictional reasons even though it displeased him on policy grounds (he wrote that the law was without “principled limit”). He did this because he has far more reverence for the law than Harris does.

    Leading presidential contender Bernie Sanders, whose collectivist doctrine clashes directly with the Constitution’s goal of restraining the state and empowering the individual, worried about “workers’ rights, health care, climate change, environmental protection and gun safety.” He should.

    Kavanaugh, with Justice Neil Gorsuch, is a critic of Chevron deference, the practice that allows administrative agencies to ignore their legal charge and have free rein to interpret statutory authority in virtually any way they please. Few things undermine the socialist agenda more than limiting our regulatory agencies’ ability to lord over the economic decisions of Americans.

    Democratic Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, another potential presidential hopeful, says Kavanaugh “can’t be trusted to safeguard rights for women, workers or to end the flow of corporate money to campaigns.” To “safeguard” the rights of women means keeping abortion legal on the federal level, without any genuine restrictions. While invented rights are sacramental, other precedents, like stopping the “flow of corporate money” — which is to say, the right of free expression codified by the Citizens United decision — should be conveniently discarded. There is absolutely no guiding principle to any of this other than political preference.

    It seems to me that with another originalist justice we inch closer to a time when the majority of the Left will simply dismiss the court as an antiquated impediment to progress. We already see this happening. Not only from progressives, but from supposed moderates. It’s why flip-flopping partisans like Ezra Klein are now lamenting the “anti-democratic” position of the court. By “anti-democratic,” he doesn’t mean the court had legalized abortion or gay marriage without the consent of states, but rather that it has recently stopped the federal government from compelling individuals to act in ways he, and many others, approve of.

    Normalizing the idea that the Constitution should be subservient to the fleeting will of politics or progressive conceptions of “justice” goes back to Barack Obama, who in 2008 promised to nominate justices who shared “one’s deepest values, one’s core concerns, one’s broader perspectives on how the world works, and the depth and breadth of one’s empathy.” The Left hailed this position as proof of a thoughtful and moral temperament, when in reality it’s an ideological position that allows judges to arbitrarily create law and subordinate their constitutional duty to their personal worldview.

    Of course there are a number of legitimate debates about how we should interpret the Constitution. Of course all justices aren’t political on all issues, nor are all conservatives pure. But it’s the Left that now embraces relativistic arguments about the intent and purpose of the Constitution.

    I wish the Supreme Court were less important. But right now, it’s one of the only institutions preserving constitutional order. And it’s why the Left is about to go nuts again.

    ***

    David Harsanyi is a Senior Editor at The Federalist. He is the author of the forthcoming book, First Freedom: A Ride Through America’s Enduring History with the Gun, From the Revolution to Today.

  80. No, you’re thinking of Citizens United, Your Blackness.

    Black people should know better than to trampleon the civil rights of others.

  81. I’m guessing you’ve never been to the South, have you?

    Christians are too stupid to care about gay and trans children being murdered by their own parents, and too lazy to do anything about it even if they did care, which they don’t.

  82. What part of “ignorant, stupid troll” do you not get? And on top of that, you’re a pedophile?

  83. Speak for yourself, Breitbart-believer.

  84. Catholicism and other Christian denominations have centuries of sexual predation from their ministers. It’s in their culture.

  85. You want all gay and trans people to be killed.

  86. Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition?

  87. You sound like a homophobe, masturbating furiously to gay porn, while condemning those who produced it to hell.

  88. Do you think that pedophile priests don’t prey on young women, as well?

  89. You must be a pedophile yourself, with the way you defend Roy Moore sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl.

  90. Actually, you’re thinking of Christianity. Stop defending pedophiles, you pedophile.

  91. Using your oral orifice leads to many diseases, such as homophobia.
    #ChristianityIsCancer

  92. # of people killed by ANTIFA ever = zero
    # of people killed in America by people who demonize ANTIFA and promote white supremacy since 9/11 = 70+

    Russian trolls love demonizing BLM. Something about a peaceful protest movement against trigger happy police which makes them such targets.
    https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/russian-trolls-are-obsessed-with-black-lives-matter.html

    Open borders = A nativist has lost an argument and is trying to use a nonsense label to characterize an opponent.

  93. Trump is a white supremacist and enables ISIS.

    The State Department considered the Travel Ban garbage
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/31/world/americas/state-dept-dissent-cable-trump-immigration-order.html

    By attacking refugees fleeing Islamicist terror he gives aid and comfort to ISIS. Giving them more people under their thumb.

    Trump supports domestic terrorists. He calls them “Very fine people”.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/trump-charlottesville-white-nationalists.html

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/domestic-terrorism-white-supremacists-islamist-extremists_us_594c46e4e4b0da2c731a84df

    Those who trade freedom for security deserve neither
    -Ben Franklin

  94. Nazis should leave this country altogether. They never belonged here. Go to Russia. We will gladly take up the collection plate.

  95. oh yeah, when Christians in Spain regained control of the country after hundreds of years of dhimmi status to Islamists?

  96. Catholicism is the only one that has done that, only because priests are practicing MONASTICISM.

  97. Believe it or not Bobbie is real. He bends over for free.

  98. Ok, so I just looked it up, and I was under the impression she was 17, but apparently she was 14. That I don’t defend. Consider my stance on Moore changed.

  99. Christ didn’t diddle a kid, Mohammed did. Stop defending pedophilia, pedophile.

  100. so what orifice was used for you to get Christophobia?

  101. If you read the second sentence I just wrote, it’d answer that question

  102. Now you’re really just frothing at the mouth

  103. He needed to take something away from those formative years in communal showers.

  104. No… Catholicism is an institution, but none of them are regarded as the Messiah or the son of God. They’re all still regarded as flawed humans.

  105. I lived 26 years in the South, and it’s not like that at all. The homophobes in the South are actually predominantly the black community.

  106. but again, if that’s true. My trust in the media during campaign season is about 3%.

  107. It is true. You are a liar and a pedophile-protector.

  108. I grew up in the South. Homophobia is everywhere, including the black community.

  109. That’s an interesting take on Jesus in Catholicism.

  110. I was molested in all of my orifices, while growing up in a Christian family in Alabama. #ThatsSoChristian

  111. You’re the fan of Roy Moore, here.

  112. No, when Christians decided to torture to death anyone who wasn’t Christian enough. Clearly, you’ve never heard this before.

  113. You must be from Alabama — you’re dumb as a rock. Do you even know what monasticism is? And there have been clergy child sex abuse cases in practically every denomination. It’s not just a Catholic thing.

  114. that’s because of taqqiya permissible for both Jews and Muslims. Hence, “Confess!”

  115. you’re the fan of mohammed, pedophile

  116. sounds more like one of your fantasies to me

  117. we’re not talking about Jesus. We’re talking about the human priests who you are accusing of being pedophiles

  118. says the person protecting an ideology created by a pedophile

  119. born in california, but raised in alabama, then moved to tennessee for 10 years, and now in Seattle for 8. It does seem that pedophilia is popping up more and more all over the world, in Hollywood, secret clubs and human trafficking – and it’s really freaking the hell out of me. I honestly don’t know why anyone would want to diddle kids. There’s plenty of hot 20-30 year old women. But it does seem in general to be getting out of hand and widespread globally

  120. I am not protecting Mohamed, if that’s what you mean.

  121. No, I am not. Although I am a fan of Islamic architecture.

  122. The facts are not that many. 80% of abusing priests are same-sex attracting, and the victims are 90% post-pubescent.

  123. Your “sources” are noted.

    Your second NY Times article, written by Glenn Thrush and Maggie Haberman is interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggie_Haberman

    “In October 2016, one month before Donald Trump defeated Hillary Clinton in the 2016 US Presidential election, a document was released by Wikileaks that showed the Clinton campaign’s use of Haberman to place sympathetic stories in Politico. ‘[The Clinton Campaign has] a very good relationship with Maggie Haberman of Politico over the last year. We have had her tee up stories for us before and have never been disappointed. While we should have a larger conversation in the near future about a broader strategy for reengaging the beat press that covers HRC, for this we think we can achieve our objective and do the most shaping by going to Maggie.’”

    No point in gilding that lilly by going over Glenn Thrush.

  124. So, you’re the DNC/AFL-CIO troll planted to counter the Russian trolls?

  125. Interesting use of “relativist” as an epithet. I can see no greater relativist than a Christian conservative. Any act or position, no matter how immoral is justified by proof-texting the Bible. They find new and interesting excuses for rules to apply to others, but not to them.

    “Look at Rochester Minnesota, where muslims are running for offices and draining the local coffers dry with millions of dollars to the Somali community. ”

    You mean people revitalizing the community by bringing in small businesses and a labor force which was shrinking in the past?

    “and London for that matter”

    American Conservatives got their posteriors handed to them in the press after spreading lies about London and the fictional “No-go zones”.

    Any other fictions you want to spread here in your zeal to support ISIS?

  126. Actually nobody is doing that. We are protecting an ideology which stands for religious freedom and democracy. You are the one looking to further ISIS-like goals of a theocracy here.

  127. The vast majority of Christians are not theocrats, so your cliche ridden accusations do not apply. They do, however, refrain from strapping bombs on themselves and instead voice their opinions in public forums, as citizens, which galls haters of them, such as you. And they seem to live out their faith, without being told what not to think or do, by pc thugs.

  128. I gave the facts.

    For the source: Read the USCCB 2016 report on abuse. Google USCCB 2016 sexual abuse pdf

    Download it and read. It’s all in there, finally, some truth on this topic from the even the politically correct USCCB

  129. I don’t like Trump and never will but he has it correct when it comes to Islam and its horror dictates of the Koran that has resulted in 24/7 terrorism across the globe.

  130. Dominion theology is a false teaching not applicable in non theocratic nations. Separation of church and state does not mean Christians should be silent or conform to beliefs or practices contrary to their foundational beliefs. And as regards marriage and abortion, evangelicals are merely upholding standards of protection of life and institution of marriage which were observed by all for thousands of years before arrogant and self-styled enightened thinkers threw them aside in the last decades.

  131. Poor, persecuted you. Poor, persecuted you. Poor, persecuted you. Poor, persecuted you. Poor, persecuted you.

  132. Yet you still consider the people who COVERED UP THE ONGOING AND SYSTEMATIC CRIMINAL ABUSE to have some semblance of moral authority.

    Go figure.

  133. LOL, no links, no research, no care.

  134. then you honestly aren’t paying attention to what I said. I never ever once claimed to desire a theocracy. But it’s is absolutely ridiculous and willfully naive to think that some ideologies are worse than others. Just answer me this – is it OK for people to run for political offices under the Nazi Party? Because it seems, in reality, that would garner a sh*tstorm.

  135. Buncha f*ckin retarded lemmings, you lot. Can you BE any more vague with your bashing of Christian conservatives? Where are you pulling this crap FROM??

    LOL lies about London, what like massive amounts of stabbing to the point of banning cutlery, topping NYC for most dangerous city, massive child grooming sex gangs. That last line shows what a dolt you are because you think it has to have an official decree from the police with a big sign labeling it as an official “No-Go Zone”.

    The only ones supporting ISIS here are you guys by dhimmi’ing out to the two-front attack of Islam.

  136. 1) Ok, you lost allc red calling Trump a white supremacist

    2) he said ALL of the people “FINE PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES” – since your side had the ANTIFA thugs out there.

    3) NYT and HuffPo are the lefty equivalent of FOX. Please try again lemming.

  137. so you’re bigotted against Nazis? Now you ARE a hypocrite.. what about freedom of religion and all that jazz? You do realize the ISLAMIC Ottoman Empire remnants and the Islamic Arab nations were ALLIED to the Nazis in WW2, right?

  138. and here you are saying “Islamophobia” while openly being a “Naziphobe”. Nice. And you’re a “Christophobe” as well.

  139. Nope. That was beyond pathetic.

    Even Nazis are still entitled to free speech under the First Amendment as are Derpy Christians. They can believe anything they want and speak their mind in public. Just like I can criticize them as well.

    I am not advocating stripping them of citizenship rights and shipping them off to other countries. I leave that to ISIS stooges like you.

    You really don’t get what the 1st Amendment really means. As expected from a stooge for theocratic terrorists.

  140. Your reading comprehension skills are lacking.

    “what about freedom of religion and all that jazz?”

    I am asking the Nazi here to leave the country on his own volition. I will even take up the collection.

    I am not advocating the stripping of citizenship rights and banishment. I leave such things to the stooge for theocratic terrorism like you.

  141. is this where you’re ‘making up excuses’?

  142. No, you don’t know what the first amendment means, ISIS stooge.

    “Nazis should leave this country altogether”,

    ok in that case, lemme just say “MUSLIMS should leave this country altogether”

    That’s said exactly the same way. And i you criticize them, are you also content to be labeled a Naziphobe, as critics of muslims are labeled?

  143. 1) Because it is not only true but documented as such. Annoyance over a label is not a refutation of it.

    2) He didn’t use “both sides” until called out on supporting the Nazis. He was full of crap as well. Since one of them were Nazis who committed an act of domestic terrorism murder there. Making one side very very bad.

    3) Far from true. Fox news scores lowest for accuracy in reporting out of all of the broadcast news sources. Attacking a source is not the same as refuting it.

  144. 1) No, it isn’t. Please provide said documentation?
    2) That actually wasn’t a Nazi who hit the car that hit Heather Heyer. Dude was being attacked by AntiFa, attacking his car with bats, he sped off away from them, and ended up hitting a car that hit the obese Heather that caused her to die of a heart attack. But Trump DID say “Very fine people on both sides” – that is the entire quote.
    3) LOOOOOOOL okiedokie Kool-Aid lemming. So according to the left news outlet, the right news outlet has the lowest accuracy. LOL. Yet all of the sources you back were consistently inaccurate with Trump’s “pussy” comment.

    btw, I noticed you’re now going through and reporting my comments and having them deleted. Truly the work of a Nazi.

  145. LOL not a single thing you said was true.

    “topping NYC for most dangerous city”

    Ignorant redneck NYC is at a 40 year low in crime and doesn’t even break the top 25 most dangerous cities on any list. As opposed to Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans…

    London is also one of the safest cities in Europe. Again not even in the top most dangerous in Europe.

    The No-Go zones still don’t exist. No matter what you keep saying. American politicians have already been raked over the coals lying about those as well.

    Lying is a vital part of your view. ISIS does well with stooges like you.

  146. No, I have been paying attention. You have been spewing anti-democracy garbage and demanding the banishment of people on the basis of their religious belief.

    You are falling in line with exactly what a stooge for theocratic terrorism would support.

    You are not only a liar, bigot and fool, but you have shown utter disdain for a free and democratic way of life. ISIS thugs can only kill people and break things. But citizenry as ignorant, hateful and disdainful of our system can do far more damage than terrorists ever can.

  147. A youtube from a dumbazz talkshow. Could you choose a less credible source?

    Still absolutely false
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sharia-law-muslim-no-go-zones/

    Why the Muslim ‘No-Go-Zone’ Myth Won’t Die
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/paris-mayor-to-sue-fox-over-no-go-zone-comments/384656/

    Bobby Jindal got his posterior handed to him by Fox News on the subject!
    https://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/01/bobby_jindal_fox_news.html

    You are a lying sack of crap.

  148. 1) Nope. You are still a liar by nature.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-fearful-and-the-frustrated

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/29/trump-tweets-several-videos-alleging-physical-attacks-muslims-posted-far-right-british-leader/904332001/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/is-it-a-coincidence-that-trump-uses-the-language-of-white-supremacy/2018/04/20/01a2c202-44aa-11e8-ad8f-27a8c409298b_story.html?utm_term=.ef14fa9438cc

    The list goes on Sparky…

    2) Lying again. The guy deliberately murdered a person with his car like ISIS would. Of course since you talk out of both sides of your mouth you are both denying and defending white supremacists.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/12/14/neo-nazi-driver-charged-first-degree-murder-charlottesville-car-attack/954321001/

    3) You are flinging poo because you have no rational argument or facts to support yourself

    “I noticed you’re now going through and reporting my comments and having them deleted”

    Not I. That is too much work for me. I am far too lazy for that.

    I prefer people to leave their garbage up there for everyone to see. Lest they mistake you for reasonable and rational people in the future.

  149. A guy who wants to ban an entire religion, who lies about the Establishment Clause and seeks to commit genocide on the basis of sectarian beliefs has the nerve to claim others don’t know what the first amendment means? LMAO!

    You are entitled to speak your mind here. What you are not entitled to, is to expect government support for it. Because such things violate its nature as a free and democratic nation.

    “ok in that case, lemme just say “MUSLIMS should leave this country altogether”

    As long as you are not demanding their banishment under color of law and stripping their rights, like you did before, ISIS stooge, then you are entitled to your speech. Even if it is ignorant hateful garbage.

    There is no such thing as a Naziphobe. No right minded and decent person likes them. They are literally the declared enemies of our nation. But good to see another kind of bigotry you are supporting. It really makes it easy not to take you seriously.

  150. Nope. Its where I call to question your intelligence and ability to read. Evidently both are lacking.

  151. If you can provide a citation of the page number and specific statistics that you are quoting, I’d be happy to check your references, you simpering homophobe.

  152. You asked for facts, and a source, and I gave both to you…but because you’re lazy, arrogant, and incapable of reading a summary report (not even high science), I’ll give you pages and quotes.

    Page 40, “The percentages reported for year 2016 in
    Figure 5 are similar to those reported for year 2015
    (July 1, 2014, to June 30, 2015), where 81 percent of
    the victims were male and 19 percent were female. ”

    Table 5.

  153. It’s common courtesy to properly cite your sources, duh. There’s nothing in your quote about the ages of victims, either.

  154. An able person could have found the report when I first referenced it…then I gave the url…then I gave chapter verse.

    You didn’t want to have to change your empty opinion on the matter with facts…that’s the real root cause of your problem.

    If you read right below the quote I gave you can determine their age cut off..14….the more or less age of puberty.

    Are public schools this bad? Inferencing is no longer taught…they need a spoon. Has to be below 90 points to be this dull.

  155. None of your wankering offers any justification for your homophobia, FYI.

  156. You’re wasting your time providing her with facts, references, urls, etc. She doesn’t care about them.

    Then after you’ve wasted your time doing all that, she’ll just lob some gratuitous insults at you, as she does below. She’s simply here to insult those she disagrees with, not to have any real discussion with them.

  157. I figured when you finally were forced to stare at quotes, you’d cut and run and try to pee on someone.

  158. Is that what you’re into? It certainly seems to be right up Trump’s alley.

  159. don’t confuse yourself with the rest of america .

  160. That’s right. The Nation of Islam is right up there with the sisters of the poor.

  161. discuss what i said . not the fantasies haunting your mind .

  162. Yup. It’s amazing what you can communicate in just three words. A whole world full of imaginary persecution Becuase you no longer are privileged, nor do you get to have dominion over the Iives of others,

  163. Ben, your contempt for Christians renders you delusional.

  164. Your contempt for people who disagree with hyper conservative Christianity and it’s sociopolitical agenda make YOU delusional.

    My oldest friend in the world is a committed Christian. A Christian minister officiated at our wedding.

  165. Then I am very sorry that you harbor such hostility to the faith that is Christianity. It’s very self-destructive to a person to hate so many so deeply.

  166. Like so many of your type, you need to make up stories about people. Nothing I ever said.

  167. My hostility is towards people who use their “faith” as a weapon against other people, whether it is gay people, other religions, liberals, or other Christians who don’t conform to the kind of theology that uses “faith” as a weapon against other people.

    As I have often said on these very pages, if you people would just learn to mind your own goddam and goddamming business, you would be surprised how little anyone would care about your so called faith.

    What I note, and note repeatedly, is that when Christians of your type attack others, it is simply disagreement, with the addendum that disagree,ent isn’t hate.

    When other people protest, it is all about what victims you are, how much persecution you must endure for your “faith”, and how we must hate you. Again, it is just YOUR story that YOU tell yourselves to justify how YOU are in the world.

    Let me repeat one more time. I DON’T HATE YOU. Like a good Christian, I hate what you do, not who you are— your desire to mess inthe lives of other people, your overweening pride in being god’s BFFF, your ever present assumption of your own moral, spiritual, and human superiority.

    But sure. Believe what you need to.

  168. Having moral frameworks that identify some things as good (e.g., marriage as union of a man and a woman, human life) and seeking to defend those goods does not equal weaponizing faith against others. Resisting that which is wrong and standing up for what is right — and has been regarded as such for thousands of years — is virtue.

  169. Sure. Not weaponized at all. When Good Christians call me, my husband, and my marriage shaking my fist at (their) god, a threat to man woman marriage, a threat to society, against god…

    when they call me and my community child molesters in suppoat of that…

    and in order in order to defend their churchand deflect attention their from a 1000 year old institutional problem.

    Well yes. I’ll call that the weaponization of faith. You, obviously, call it love.

  170. You have the right to live your life any way you choose but you do not have the right to silence those whose moral principles reject that lifestyle as right, nor do you have right to compel others to approve your choices, or to redefine institutions and definitions to align with your choices. We have to speak truth, and we understand that the world will often hate it.

  171. No one has silenced you. That’s your first moral lie.

    You have the right to reject— absolutely. No one is saying otherwise. But that doesn’t mean you get do,inion over my life.

    that lifestyle. It’s not s life style, it’s a life. It’s your problem you refuse to understand that. You insist on making it mine, but seem shocked that I might object.

    You’re right, I don’t have the right to compel you to approve. I’m neither asking your approval nor trying to compel you. And you don’t have the right to make my life difficult, expensive, unpleasant, and dangerous becuase of your rather silly beliefs about me and my life.

    When heterosexuals are in the minority and no longer allowed to be married, you can talk about redefining. Right now, the only thing that has been redefined are gay people. We are no longer legally, Morally, culturally, socially, familiarly, and religiouslY your inferiors. And you REALLY hate that.

    I haven’t yet heard you speak a word of truth about us or about your motivations.

  172. No one wants to make your life more difficult but when you want those who disagree with you to shut up or adhere to behaviors that contradict their beliefs, you’ve crossed a line. I guess you are convinced that you are the victim and Christian heterosexuals are the persecutors. You regard my beliefs as silly and yourself as a victim of a religion that wants to control your life. Nothing will shake you out of that conviction, I suspect, so further discussion would be a waste of time. May God keep His eye on you.

  173. Of course you want to control my life.

    I’m sure you would like to see my marriage ended and a legal impossibility.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if you thought I was unfit to raise children, be in the military, or should be jailed if I don’t stop that “horrible crime against nature, not to be named among Christians.”

    I’m pretty sure you would object were I to be nominated to serve as a chaplain or pastor.

  174. Anyone who passes a law wants to control someone’s life.

    You’re not special.

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