September 8, 2014

Christian group sanctioned at two dozen college campuses

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A group of student involved with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, an evangelical Christian group with 860 chapters in the United States. Photo courtesy of Sonoma State Star

A group of student involved with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, an evangelical Christian group with 860 chapters in the United States. Photo courtesy of Sonoma State Star

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(RNS) InterVarsity has been challenged on more than 40 college campuses, but California State University, with 23 campuses, is the biggest -- so far.

  • ronald

    This is lawsuit material. Discrimenating against gays and non-Christians is part of religious freedom.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    I’m Not Evangelical, but these cases strike me as more secular tyranny. Aren’t all students coerced into paying something called student fees??? And in the state college I was in those fees were nothing but a rip-off to help favored groups (usually left-political) and punish or interfere with disfavored groups.
    Can anything be more absurd than making rules that a religious or political group has to be open to putting in leaders who may very well be out to destroy the group by undermining it from inside. Isn’t this how some of the worst pre-WWII tyranny got rolling???

  • I’ll send a link to SUNY.

  • Loren Haas

    Secular tyranny would be coming into your church and forcing you to teach what they told you to.
    You let us know when that happens?

  • exoticdoc2

    Only the bizarre liberals of CA would be rabidly PC and insane enough to require a group, established specifically to be a Christian group, to accept leadership from those who do NOT adhere to the very tenets they espouse. Another clear example that CA is idiocy at its “best.”

  • Neon Genesis

    Did you bother to read the part where it says all religious groups are required to do the same? The article even says that one of the Jewish groups have non-Jewish leaders. None of the other religious groups have complained about the rules. The only ones to complain so far are the homophobic Christian whiners.

  • Jon

    Only bizarre liberals would be rabidly PC and insane enough to require a group established specifically to be a KKK group, to accept leadership from those (such as non-whites) who do NOT adhere to the very tenets they espouse. Another clear example liberals are idiocy at its “best.” Our freedom means that we must be allowed to be discriminatory. After all, that’s what Privilege means, right? That our discrimination is allowed.

  • None of the other religious groups have complained about the rules.

    Because they aren’t very serious and are pleased to truckle to the regime.

  • Rachel

    InterVarsity was my church when I was in college. It’s where I became a Christian, and when my most formative relationships in my faith were. You might say it’s not a church, but functionally it was. So they have stormed my church. You’re rash to judge what you don’t understand.

  • You read about stories like this and you have to wonder if the student affairs apparatchiks are (a) stupid or (b) utter humbugs.

  • Larry

    Well no. They just treated it like a church and not a student organization. They didn’t tell the church what to do. Just didn’t confuse them with organizations with less discriminatory membership policies. You want them to be treated special from every other religious organization on campus because JESUS!!

  • Larry

    No, you just think being Christian exempts you from being treated like every other religious faith.

    But thank you for insulting religious organizations with beliefs other than your own. Just the sort of classy behavior we have come to expect from you.

  • Larry

    I read such stories and see Christians as self-absorbed whinybabies who want to be treated special because…Jesus.

  • Eric

    John, quit hyperventilating. If you can’t tell the difference between a privilege and a right, between being required to not discriminate and tyranny, that’s your problem, not the university’s. And your comments and half of those on this thread are evidence enough that, yes, there can indeed be something more absurd than university nondiscrimination policies.

  • Neon Genesis

    So you’re accusing every Jewish student group of being not serious? You realize you sound antisemitic doing that right?

  • No, I think when I and others have a common object, we are properly allowed to pursue that object if it does not involve force, fraud, or trafficking in vice. That’s the way it works in a free society.

    What we see here is the reductio ad absurdam of anti-discrimination law wherein corporate bodies are rendered creatures of the state and permitted only to organize along lines permissible to the Regime. There is a precise analogue to this in post-war eastern Europe with its suborned religious congregations and bogus political parties, both derived from institutional shells left by the authentic congregations and associations operating prior to 1948.

    And they deserve an insult for being poltroons.

  • I know, but you see nothing clearly.

  • Eric

    What on earth are you talking about, Deco? This is *not* an analogy to the Soviet Bloc. No one is saying that these groups are “permitted only to organize along lines permissible to the Regime” because no one is saying they can’t organize or meet.

    Read that again: no one is denying these groups the right to free assembly. Only a willful misunderstanding, or rather a deceitful conflation, of the difference between rights and privileges leads to the absurd conclusion you and others are trying to draw. In other words, your complaint is yet another example of conservative Christians thinking that not getting your way is the same thing as being oppressed.

    If we were talking about Christian groups who refused to let racial minorities join or hold office, you wouldn’t think twice about the university’s policy.

  • Eric

    Boom, exactly. Delivered through the “No True Scotsman” fallacy.

  • Larry

    You want a Christian group to be treated differently from every other student organization on campus. Even religious ones present on them from other faiths. I read the situation correctly.

    You are either not bothering to read the article or just feel like making inflammatory comments for its own sake. You have strawmen sitting in your backyard and goddammit you need to burn them.

  • rob

    Jesus said those who believe in him will be treated badly .. .. atheists and there religious
    beliefs are well received ..

    these schools cater to the atheist religion.
    .

  • Garrett Girard

    Did anyone mention frays and sororities are groups that discriminate (by gender) allowed on campus by “exemption”? It appears faith-based groups are singled out.

  • Garrett Girard

    Typo: frats

  • Garrett Girard

    “Every other student organization” that is not a fraternity or sorority or other group which has received exemption from the discrimination policy. The CSU chancellor has granted these groups exemption to the stated rule.

  • Eric, this is not that difficult to understand (but when someone’s employment depends on not understanding something – you’re not on the payroll, are you?).

    A set of state institution have expelled the Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship from their campuses because the membership criteria of that Fellowship are not in accord with ‘public policy’. The thing is, the membership criteria are derived from the institutional mission of the Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship. Any serious institution ‘discriminates’ in this manner, be it a commercial corporation, religious congregation, or political party. What has happened here is that ‘anti-discrimination law’ has been deployed to, in effect, provide a legal impediment to this association operating. You only do that if the association in question is some sort of racket or mafia. Which it is not.

    The driver of this is the notion, floating around in the addled or malicious heads of the college administration, that Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship should not be permitted to be the Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship and should function as an ‘approved’ association with ‘approved’ membership criteria. (A secondary feature of this is the notion that state colleges are sandboxes for their faculty and administration. You’d never try to sell these notions to the general public and you might have some trouble even with elements of the Democratic caucus of the state legislature).

    And now your telling me what I would or would not think (when you yourself are hopelessly confused, go figure). I do not give a rip about the membership criteria of racialized organizations either. I might if they were habitually engaged in acts which are specified in the penal code, but that’s seldom the case (unless you count raunchy fraternity parties). Went to a college with a mess of black frats and a Black Students Union and I never gave it a second thought. There was also a Jewish Students Association and a Kosher Dining Hall as well.

    A mild complication ensues when the institution subsidizes student organizations out of mandatory fees. The administration should not be in that business at any time or for anyone.

  • No, I am accusing Jewish student group who accede to silly and illegitimate strictures of being unserious.

  • Larry, I can explain my position to you, and I have. What I cannot do, is comprehend it for you.

  • I suspect that’s an artifact of donor pressure, intermediated through the athletic department.

  • Aren’t all students coerced into paying something called student fees??? And in the state college I was in those fees were nothing but a rip-off to help favored groups (usually left-political) and punish or interfere with disfavored groups.

    Yep.

    Can anything be more absurd than making rules that a religious or political group has to be open to putting in leaders who may very well be out to destroy the group by undermining it from inside.

    Not a whole lot, but read the other commenters here. Absurdity has its partisans.

  • Larry

    Except they didn’t drive them off the campus. Not in the least. They just didn’t extend the same privileges given to organizations which do not discriminate in its membership. You want the benefits of the university’s organization, you have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

    Christians want a right to discriminate which is not present in EVERY OTHER religious student organization. They want to be exempt from the rules and treated as special. Tough luck. Believing in Jesus doesn’t make you special or entitle you to greater privileges than anyone else.

  • Larry

    Art, you explained your position clear enough I just find it both bereft of facts to support it and ridiculous.

    You are claiming Christians must be treated differently from everyone else. When you don’t get privileges nobody else has either, you cry discrimination. Couple that with throwing around nonsense analogies to communism and your whole spiel is nailed down pat.

  • Larry

    Fraternities and sororities are not treated like student organizations in the same vein. They do not get funded by the student activities fees nor get special privileges for using school facilities. They are all self-funded through membership dues as well. .

  • Eric

    “A set of state institution have expelled the Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship from their campuses…”

    Deco, I quit reading when I came to this. If you can’t, or refuse to, get the basic facts of the case straight, there is no need to read further and even less to discuss it with you.

  • Larry

    @Garrett

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    “Greek” organizations are not treated the same way as general student organizations. They are exempted because they do not receive money from the student activities fees nor use the common facilities. They have membership dues and their own houses maintained separately.

  • Girardo

    I didn’t realize Greek organizations aren’t allowed to book rooms to use on campus and must not be given space to appear on campus promoting their organizations along with other recognized student groups. So they should have an exemption to discriminate. This must not happen. Thanks!

  • Pingback: Christian groups banned from campus unless they compromise beliefs…how far we have fallen | Laodicean Report()

  • Larry

    Way to miss the point and failed to read the article. Since “Greeks” are self-funded they would be outside such rules. The point is that they (and other student organizations) would not get the special discount that organizations WHICH RECEIVE FUNDING FROM STUDENT ACTIVITIES FEES would get.

  • Girardo

    So if religious organizations agreed not to receive funding then there’s no reason they shouldn’t be allowed to discriminate just as Greek organizations are exempted, (groups WHICH do not RECEIVE FUNDING FROM STUDENT ACTIVITIES FEES as I understand it). It sounds like an easy compromise–don’t receive funding and you can be recognized, meet on campus, etc. It seems silly that a compromise isn’t reached and all sides would be content! I didn’t see the funding pointed out in the article, but now it makes sense. If these groups didn’t receive funding from the school then they should be allowed to follow the same rules as the Greek organizations. Thanks!

  • 2014: “They will still have access to meeting rooms, they just will not receive as steep a discount.”

    Alabama c1960s: “Nobody’s saying they can’t use the bus, just so long as it’s the back of the bus”

  • Jonathan J. Turner

    And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and his sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

  • Peter S. Chamberlain

    Would the College Young Democrats [or Republicans], or a group devoted to one side of an issue, be required to open its offices to people who did not affirm the group’s principles and positions, as InterVarsity Christian Fellowship is required there to do, to be a recognized student group? The Supreme Court held that a state university could, but not that it was required to, do that, in a case involving the Christian Legal Society. That does not make such a policy workable, much less right or fair.

  • opheliart

    “Not a whole lot, but read the other commenters here. Absurdity has its ‘partisans’.”

    I know what you do, Art Decal, absurd as this may sound. But remember this, you still cannot tell friend from foe. There is a shadow at your door. Knock-knock.

    Tread that Holy City underfoot for forty and two months … and then what?

  • opheliart

    Larry, I take no sides in this issue, but I am compelled to share in what is shown to me. Some religious still do not realize they made the bed they insist smells of ____.

    Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

    The Roman Catholic version is: Be not deceived, God is not mocked.

    An Atheist might say it like this:
    What goes around comes around.

    God chastises those He loves.

    🙂

  • Larry

    Their membership is open to all willing to sit through their meetings (even regstered Republicans). You can’t say that about InterVarsity. It really comes down to funding. To get in on that student activites fee funding, you have to play by certain rules. One of them is being open to membership to all comers.

    There is nothing unfair about that. The Christian group is held to the same standards as everyone else. You want them to have the privilege of ignoring such rules.

    If you want a discriminatory college organization. Find funding from somewhere besides the fees paid by all students. Have membership dues or outside patrons. All students do not need to pay to fund grous where they can’t be allowed to join. That is fair. Christians evidently don’t want fair, they want to be treated special.

  • Larry

    It’s aways funny when people engaging in discrimination play victim because nobody wants to treat them special.

    So why should all students pay for funding a group which excludes them? You want to discriminate, do it on your own dime.

  • Mark

    The real answer to this whole problem is . . . get rid of student activity fees!

  • Doc Anthony

    It’s a student religious organization, Larry. It’s not a church denomination, it’s not even an independent community church. They have the right to insist that the leaders of the student religious organization AT LEAST share the organization’s religious beliefs.

    That’s merely common sense Larry. You and I should be able to agree on THAT one, whether it’s InterVarsity or the Secular Student Alliance. BOTH national organizations have the same right to have campus chapter officers/leaders who agree with the beliefs and mission statements of the group.

    The fascists who run CSU are aware of this. That’s why they aren’t able to directly kick them off their campuses. So what does CSU resort to? Econonic blackmail. Economic anti-religious discrimination. Unethical mess.

    But such mess is NOT how rational people create and nurture an open, broad, and free academic environment at the college level. CSU’s mess is absolutely NOT the way to promote either free-thinkers or religious-thinkers of the future.

    Wouldn’t you agree ?

  • Larry

    You missed something very very important.

    As a student organization, in order to feed at the student activities fee trough, they have to follow a very simple rule. Open membership to everyone who comes through the door. ALL other campus religious organizations follow this rule. InterVarsity wants to be treated special. So no, this is not a religion/atheist conflict. This is a Christian/everyone else conflict.

    They want to act like a private club, they can be treated like one. No need to force all students to pay for an organization which does not let all students in. THAT is common sense.

    There is nothing rational about seeking special privileges and glomming off of common funding to engage in activities every other organization is barred from doing. But it is par for the course for people expecting “Christian Privilege”

  • Larry

    Or better yet, collect dues from InterVarsity members or find a nice church to underwrite them. No need to upend an entire system because a bunch of whiny Christians can’t discriminate using other people’s money.

  • Mark

    I smell religious freedom lawsuit coming. I am sure the ACLJ will be happy to take IV’s case.

  • Doc Anthony

    The Jewish group should be free to elect a non-Jewish leader if it so chooses. Or not, because THEY should be allowed to set their own boundaries for leader positions like all other groups.

    But that means the key word: CHOICE. Let the student organization do the choosing. Let each student group set its own boundaries.

    University Anti-Christian Fascist Bums can start their OWN student group and set its own boundaries and choose their own leaders. They should have that right. But they don’t need to be trying to do their tyranny on other student groups.

    .

  • Bob Mayer

    Just like their misguided friends at Vanderbilt, the Cal State administration is now practicing religious bigotry. Welcome to the beginning of the end of religious freedom in this country, brought to you by the thought police whom George Orwell described in Animal Farm and Nineteen Eighty-four. Don’t you just love it: hatred and bigotry in the name of tolerance. Newspeak if I have ever seen it.

  • Frank

    Anyone who reads the bible in any way would see homosexual behavior is sinful.

  • Larry

    Its bigotry to hold Christians to the same standards as everyone else?

    Gawd you guys are so whiny. You don’t seek religious freedom, you seek privileges over other faiths.

  • Larry

    The choice to take funding from all students means one has to accept the obligations that come with it. That means membership open to all comers.

    InterVarsity is not being removed from campus or banned from using facilities. Its that they chose to ignore the rules concerning acceptance of student activities fee money. So they are not entitled to the benefits of it. Rendering unto Caesar and whatnot.

    They are more than welcomed to seek funding from any number of churches which would gladly subsidize such activities or from membership dues from its faithful.

  • Neon Genesis

    Evangelicals are the ones redefining religious freedom to discriminate. Even Islam doesn’t do this. I just wish you evangelicals would be honest and admit you don’t really believe in religious freedom.

  • Pingback: Article: California State Universities Oust Christian Organizations #InterVarsity | ChurchHealthWiki.com()

  • MrSplashyPants

    Larry its ok to commandeer all the student orgs then, right? I can get my whole fraternity together, go to all the student org mtgs, and get them to vote for me. I can simultaneously be the president of the Islamic Student Association, Young Demos, Young Repubs, the Catholic Student Org, the Kayaking club, and the LGBT club. Then my friends and I can feast upon student fees all semester.

    I’m sure you agree.

  • Larry

    Yep. As ridiculous as it sounds, that is exactly what you can do. All of those clubs are open to the public without exception.

    I take it you haven’t seen Rushmore or Election 🙂

  • MrSplashyPants

    So, sincerity of belief can be suspended in favor of any other motivation. Skinheads can “takeover” the African American student group, make a mockery without any negative repercussions. No judging allowed. They would be, as Vandy would call them, “transformational leaders,” who are redefining what it means to be African American.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    When I was in college I had no time for the student organizations of any kind that slurped at the college fees trough. And the money usually went to groups I didn’t like as much as some people on here hate Christian groups getting any money unless they follow bizarre, idiotic, mindless rules . I had to spend my time behind a cash register to afford tuition, etc. Thus -of all my college expenses the part I most found revolting was the student fee.

  • Traci

    Larry: Please be accurate. InterVarsity membership is open to all. Leadership is not. Any interested student can be a member, if you want to call it that. Membership is self-ascribed. Not every student interested can be a leader.

  • Larry

    So now you are arguing that clubs must exclude people on the basis of enforcing ideological purity if they are to remain whole.

    How very Marxist of you!

  • Larry

    Which is still considered discriminatory. I got that much from reading the article.

  • auggie

    This is not about membership or who is let in the doors. Did you even read the article? What is so terrible about letting student-led clubs insist on leadership that agrees with the group’s principles, be they right- or left-leaning? Like DA says, basic common sense.

  • MrSplashyPants

    Is that whining? Surely not.

  • MrSplashyPants

    The answer for Intervarsity is simple, on paper. IV estimates $30,000 extra per university per year. There are 23 Cal universities. IV raises $690,000 (one year’s extra operating funds.)

    A semester for a commuter at Cal State – Fullerton is less than $6,900. $690,000 “buys” 100 full fledged Cal State students. These 100 students then methodically take over every single Cal State student organization. [Per Larry, et al, no whining is allowed by other students.] The administration set the rules, and every rule would be followed. Then IV (or any org, i.e. skinheads, or a fraternity) can change the purpose of all the organizations to be whatever they wish. They would lock down thousands of dollars of student fees, they could frustrate the students who want to participate for the original belief-based reasons of all the other clubs. The administration would support IV’s right to do this, since they (IV students) would simply be “transformational leaders” who are demonstrating the “new direction” of the students at Cal State. Any “whining” would be intolerant and judgmental, right? No one would have any right to judge IV students for this, since the motivations for participating in clubs on campus have been made meaningless by the Cal State admin.

    The student body would have to wait until next year to form new student groups, which would now have a diluted budget, since IV students now controls the budgets of the 50 original student groups. But of course IV would just repeat the process the next year and probably succeed with at least half the new groups who were attempting to form a group around a ‘belief system.” Belief in Islam or Kayaking.

    There is absolutely nothing that should prohibit IV from making such a move. They are a huge org and can easily raise the funds. This would be cheaper than five lawsuits or trying to operate under the current rules over the long haul. They could make the Cal system say Uncle. Actually, only TWO things could prohibit this from happening:

    1. A Reaction by the Cal State Admin. Upon seeing the mockery that IV made of their high-minded rules, the Administrators would quickly and hypocritically change the rules. They would game the system again, to get the outcome they want. But their answer could look more foolish than even the current direction.

    2. The ethics of Intervarsity. You see, this is what the Administrators are counting on, They are actively using the ethics of the Christians against them. If the Vandy or Cal State Administrator even thought for one short second that IV would try the power play above, then this whole sham would go up in smoke.

    The fact is, other students DO care about their orgs and “beliefs” as much as IV students. They want to go kayaking, talk about Justice, talk about politics, talk about gay rights as much OR MORE than IV wants to simply hold Bible studies led by real IV leaders. All IV has to do is just take it all away from them (at the open invitation of the tolerant Cal State and Vandy administrators.) Things would change in a heartbeat. Things would go back to normal of “restricting” potential leaders to upholding the original tenets of the org. As it should be.

    Since this can be done easily on paper, seems like Cal State admins are bullies to make Intervarsity go through with it? What other organizations count on the ethics of their opponents to protect them from losing their battles?

  • Larry

    If what you were saying was even remotely true, why is only the Christian group the one which is chafing at this rule and not EVERY OTHER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION on campus? Obviously their conduct goes beyond what is done by others in the same position.

    It is simply a matter of Christians thinking rules do not apply to them or wanting special privileges because of their faith.

  • Larry

    Yes it is whining. You complain about how colleges try to enforce certain ideologies on students yet that is EXACTLY what you want to do for yourself.

    Somehow rules which every other religious organization abides by and does not have trouble with is this great imposition of Christians. They want to feel special and above rules governing any other religious organization. That is not defending one’s rights. That is just taking liberties you are not entitled to.

    Also thrown into the mix is the ridiculous idea that discriminatory conduct is somehow OK as long as you tell people “Jesus wants it that way”. As if being Christian entitles you to privileges no other religious belief does.

    The worst thing is the solution is simple. Don’t take student activities fee money. There are plenty of churches who would be willing to underwrite IV.

  • Larry

    If ideological purity is so important to an organization, so much so that it can’t abide by the rules governing all those who accept the student activities fee, then the answer is simple. Take the sacrifice of the fees in order to protect what you feel is important.

    The problem being, IV wants to be treated special. Their ethics seem to be parasitic. Take as much advantage of the system as possible and avoid any kind of obligations entailed by it.

    Fact of the matter is, only IV seems to be the ones chafing at these rules. Obviously your worry about a group “changing the fundamental nature” of a club is just so much useless hypothetical and chicken little’ing.

  • MrSplashyPants

    Larry, the main thing you are wrong about is the “ideological purity” thing. To the kayak club, “ideological purity” is going kayaking. It is what they want to do, and doing it doesn’t hurt anyone. If some weirdo comes in and takes over their club to prove some point and doesn’t want to kayak anymore, then they are screwed. Their weird leader “changed the fundamental narure” of the org for no good reason. You will hear them yell louder than IV. Make the example Islam or LGBT and the example goes nuclear. I’m sure you wouldn’t disagree with that. They want their leaders to be “ideologically pure,” just like the kayak club.

    Intervarsity is the only org with the camel’s nose under their tent. They aren’t bothering anyone. The admins are the one’s whining and wanting this privilege.

  • Larry

    Why are the IV the only ones making these complaints?

    Why is nobody else complaining about outsiders “ruining the fundamental nature” of their clubs with the campus policy?

    Because the issue is nonsense.

    The Christians feel that God absolves them from responsibilities and obligations to everyone else. Not even other religious based groups are making these complaints.

    Again, if it is so important, then they can forgo receiving funds which obligate them to follow the rules against discriminating. But that is not enough for the Christian group. They want to be treated special. As if they were the only campus group (and religion) which matters.

    You want to protect the nature of the group, if discrimination is that important to you, then man up and take the consequences of such policies.

  • MrSplashyPants

    Larry, why are you such a radical against kayaking?? Why are you willing for some nosy, know-it-all who hates kayaking to take them over and shut them down at any moment? When all they want to do is kayak?? They are not hurting anyone!! That’s a really crazy view you hold.

    The answer to your question is that IV is the only org (so far) with active thought police judging their views. But I will warn the kayakers that you are coming for them. You can have the last word.

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  • foo

    Except No.

  • Larry

    Because you are full of crap and making imaginary arguments instead of addressing the issue on its own facts.

    The poor IV can’t discriminate at the cost of all students at the university. Boo hoo.

  • Frank

    A comment on headline writers and ambiguity, especially in light of the above headline: “Christian group sanctioned at two dozen college campuses.”

    The word “sanction” is one of the few English words that is self-contradictory. It can mean “to approve” or “to penalize.” Hopefully the writer of the headline (which may not be the writer of the article) realizes just how misleading the headline title of this article can be.

  • Apologeezer

    Should churches be allowed to teach that homosexuality is a sin?

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  • Linda Maria

    I think the Intervarsity Christin Fellowship is a wonderful Christian organization, that has helped thousands of college students! The Christian support and role-modeling, can help shape a young person into an excellent Christian, and also, an excellent American citizen, and possibly a future leader— for our Nation! We need such organizations, to help young people go in the right directions, towards adult maturity, and a good future life! So many kids are tragically misled into immoral, unhealthy and destructive lives, of dope, promiscuity, and even crime! And there are often too many liberal, radical, immoral, unhealthy, and near-criminal influences on modern college campuses, right in the classrooms– to corrupt and destroy young students! There should be a great many student organizations on college campuses, to help support a student while away at college, in a very positive, wholesome, and constructive way! I recall, many years ago, the snobbery and meanness of sorority girls in cliques, choosing to include or exclude students– and the pain of lonely, shy, nice girls, who were excluded cruelly! Such groups did very little, for a positive, wholesome, good influence, on students’ lives! Yet, sororities and fraternities have always been accepted, as a part of college life! Student organizations that serve students of particular ethnic or religious backgrounds, should operate according to their particular religious beliefs or ethnic needs only, very honestly– and do a good job, of serving their students’ needs! For athletes who are Jewish, or Muslim, or Buddhist (etc.)— of course they should be free, to form a “Jewish” Intervarsity club, or “Muslim” Intervarsity club, (etc.) and serve all of their own students! Why not?? And please, don’t tell me, for example– that a “Gentile,” like myself– should boorishly and barbarically insist on being eligible to join and even lead, a Jewish club! That is ridiculous– and BAD MANNERS!! Want to tell me to join an African-American club and lead it– if I am not Black?? How CRUEL!! BARBARIC!! IGNORANT!! RACIST!! And so many colleges today– are ignorantly “RACIST” to Christians!!

  • Veronica

    Agree…Can a member of ISIL beciome the leader of Jewish group? Or a supporter of traditional marriage lead a LGBT gay group? Or a white supremacist lead a black group?

  • Veronica

    Let’s have it your way then Larry. Reparative therapists should lead LGBTQ groups, segregationists black groups. pro-lifers leading anti-life, abortion, groups, etc.

  • Veronica

    Larry….Hamas can lead a Jewish group?

  • Veronica

    No, the real ‘discrimination’ is done by those who engage in forcing others to violate their religious liberty.

  • Karen

    My question to people like Neon Genesis and Larry…Why would you want to join a group that you did not believe in what they were teaching or doing? Most groups are set up to join together like minded individuals or people with the same interests, etc. Unless of course you were a Debate group. And common sense would say How can you be a leader in a group that you don’t believe or support what they do or stand for??? I would not expect to join a group that is for Atheists and be a leader in that group when I do not believe that way. (As an example) Nor would I expect them to want me to be.

  • John JP Patterson

    Should taxpayers support ANY religious group?

    Loss of recognition means we lose 3 things:
    1) Free access to rooms
    (this will cost our chapters $13k-30k/year to reserve room).
    2) We also lose access to student activities programs, including the new student fairs where we meet most students.
    3) We also lose standing when we engage faculty, students and administrators.

    They are a religious group, not a school sponsored program. Why did they have these 3 things in the first place? Puzzled…

  • John

    So, don’t Christian students pay their student activity fees just like everyone else? If religions can’t discriminate based upon their doctrinal teachings, then the university system has effectively deprived these students of their freedom of religion (the first amendment in case anti-Christian bigots are not clear on that). To limit membership based upon how people choose to live their lives is not discrimination at all anyway. You cannot be said to discriminate against a practice, you can only be said to discriminate against an individual. Presumably, a Moslem group would “discriminate” against a devout Christian joining/leading its organization. But there would be no issue if the Christian converted to Islam. See how it works? The decision makers in this situation should all lose their jobs and the university system should be sued for $millions for their bigotry. Ohio accomodated its religious organizations. Why can’t the Nazis running the California system?

  • MJ

    Larry, I don’t think you’ve got the facts right. All students are welcome to join InterVarsity. They simply require that those in positions of leadership share in the beliefs that constitute the organization. The university objects to this because they believe that to be discriminatory. Also, the university’s rules apply to other religious groups too, not just evangelical Christians. I’m not sure about CSU, but in other instances where this policy has been implemented, such as Vanderbilt, something like a dozen groups were deactivated. The end result is to stifle the free expression of religious conviction.

  • Linear

    You and others keep saying that the Christian group wants special treatment, but that is false. Rather, it wants all groups to be able to place requirements upon their own leaders, as it was previously.

    For the most part the new rule is meaningless, since honest members will most likely elect those that represent the principles of the group. i.e. the discrimination will be democratically based. That’s why most groups are not protesting.

    But the absurdity of the new rule would be manifest by the formation of an Anti-Group group that democratically takes over other groups and dissolves them.

    What you have been ignoring is that the right of free association necessarily implies the right to discriminate. Therefore, the fact that the government should not discriminate rationally limits its possible domain.

    Of course, an even earlier issue is that students should not be forced to fund organizations that they do not want to be a part of.

  • Linear

    Unfortunately, eliminating student activity fees is not enough, since colleges grant other privileges to recognized student organizations, such as free use of space.

  • Tim

    This is ridiculous. If a Buddhist organization is going to be active on a campus, I’d expect its leaderrs to be Buddhists. If a Jewish organization is going to be active on a campus, I’d expect its leaders to be Jewish, if a Christian organization is going to be active on a campus, I’d expect its leaders to be Christian. Booting InterVarsity, a highly reputable, mainstream Christian organization that has helped countless Christian students for decades because it wants to keep its leadership Christian, is the wrong thing to do.

  • Emily

    That would be happening right now in Texas, where they want to demand ministers to turn over their sermons.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/houston-pastor-sermon_n_5992044.html

    Pay attention, this will happen more and more.

  • Emily

    Loren Haas September 8, 2014 at 7:26 pm
    Secular tyranny would be coming into your church and forcing you to teach what they told you to.
    You let us know when that happens?

    It’s happening right now in Texas, where they want to force ministers to hand over their sermons before preaching.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/houston-pastor-sermon_n_5992044.html

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  • Frank

    Rachel, why should a gay student fund a group that believes he should be murdered if he has sex even once in his life time. That is after all what Intervarsity Christian Fellowship’s belief in the literal interpretation of Biblical passages about homosexuality means.