• Frank

    I hope this becomes a model for all companies with Christians at the helm. Stand up for your faith Christians, speak boldly and refuse to be silenced. The people around you eternal lives at eat stake. Do you love them?

  • Karla

    Great that Moody encourages the people to witness at work. Many so called
    “Christians” are one way around their Christian friends and then act another
    way around their co-workers. Jesus said many will say to Me Lord,Lord and
    not enter heaven! Christians need to be living the Christian life without any
    compromise! We all must Repent/follow Him! Ephesians 5:18 says don’t get
    drunk and 1 Corinthians 6:10 says that all drunkards go to hell. The wine
    that Jesus made was new wine/diluted/made for symbolic reasons not to
    get drunk plus the Bible says don’t get drunk on strong wine and don’t get
    drunk with wine…it’s debauchery! 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 lists many sins right
    along with homosexuality so all sin is bad not just abortion or gay marriage.
    Jesus said you are one of Mine only if you follow Me! If you say you love
    Jesus then don’t follow the Bible/religion no Truth is in you! We must follow!

  • Fourth Valley

    I… kinda like the Hobby Lobby ruling actually.

    The notion that people shouldn’t have to financially support something they believe is no different than murder morally has some interesting implications that I think could be explored. As a Baha’i, I believe that no war is justifiable for this time period, until at least the time of the next prophet. So… perhaps I can stop paying the portion of my taxes that go to warfare, since I view the practice as no different than murder??

    It seems like an interesting slippery slope to be explored. If used, could give those opposed to a warfare state a new way to oppose those wars found to be objectionable. At the very least, attempting to put an anti-war spin on it would be a good litmus test to see if those who support (and oppose) the Hobby Lobby case would apply the logic used there equally to minority faiths as well as the majority faith.

  • Fourth Valley

    “Peace is the foundation of God; war is satanic institution.” -The Most Great Peace, Abdul-Baha

    I mean, if Christians aren’t forced to pay for something they think is murder, why would I be required to pay for something that my scripture says is run by Satan himself?? I’m fairly certain this precedent set says I don’t have to pay for war. At least, if the precedent is applied equally.

  • Mike

    Author says Title VII prohibits employers from proselytizing employees at work. Don’t know where he gets that. If the activity becomes severe and continuing it is harassment. But it has to reach a stage. While occasional proselytizing may be unwelcome it may not qualify as harassment.

  • Steven

    I don’t know the legalities of this practice. But I don’t have a problem with a business setting aside space during non work hours for their employees to participate in a Bible study or prayer (think Muslims). At the same time I don’t believe it is acceptable to have a coworker (no matter how sincere) recruit me for participation. I expect religious practices in the work place would be well known. If I wanted to participate I could choose to do so at my own volition. On a lighter note…I chose not to participate in coworker birthday celebrations or Secret Santa/Holiday parties. And I did feel the displeasure of some who thought I was not being a “team player.” It dogged me until I left the organization after 14 years.

  • The Great God Pan

    ““When I started the Bible studies I did a tally, and we had three people in the company who were professing believing Christians…. Today, out of roughly 100 employees we have only 20 or 25 (people) who are not yet Christians.”

    And those remaining 20 or 25 will convert once they get tired of being passed over for raises, etc.

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  • Ted

    In a free society, working for someone is a privilege, not a right.

  • I am repeatedly told by Christians that we have ‘free will’ to reject religion if we want to.

    But here is what is clear:
    If you don’t quit religion now, you won’t be allowed to quit later.

    America is quickly becoming the land of Christian Sharia Law.
    I wish I was joking.

  • Shawnie5

    Well, which is it, Max? “Religion is dying” or “America is quickly becoming the land of Christian Sharia law?”

    You may not be joking but you certainly seem confused.

  • Daniel Berry

    Moody’s perspective on integrating faith and the marketplace is dramatically different from mine: evangelicals never seem to tire of trying to shove threats of damnation down the throats of those whose beliefs are different from theirs. And unfortunately, their concept of religion in the market place often goes no deeper than that, as they ignore the egregious (and grievously sinful) abuses of megabanks and multi-national corporations – to say nothing of the Pentagon. Just once I’d like to hear one of those intrusive soul-savers witness to what Jesus has to say about the abuses of power by religious and political leaders. Mysteriously, in the main they remain strangely mute on such topics – mostly, I suspect, because conservatives align their support with abusive political figures because many such figures – supporters of Imperialism and disfigured ideas of free enterprise and the American Constitution – also use anti-abortion and anti-gay rhetoric to gain votes. It reflects a grossly impoverished reading of the Gospel, particularly the Sermon on the Mount.

    I’ll say one last thing: if somebody came to me in their store and tried to work me over about my relationship with Jesus, it would be the last time they’d see me in their establishment.

  • Daniel Berry

    I’m with you: I’d be inclined to believe the change would be more due to low-intensity bullying than anything else. Bullying is a time-honored technique among “christians.” Just ask any gay person.

  • Daniel Berry

    Ms Karla, what is the Greek term for “homosexual”?

  • James E. Horn

    A Christian company such as this is wonderful. There are pitfalls however. To learn about the4se, please consider the short book: RELIGION IN THE WORKPLACE as a guide to avoid pitfalls.

  • Karla

    Daniel Berry-Romans 1:24-27

  • Larry

    Creating a hostile work environment does not have to directly caused by an employer. Sometimes it can be from failing to take action against a co-worker who is.

    IMO its fairly rude to be proselytizing in the workplace as you are spending time with people who did not volunteer to associate with you.

  • Larry

    Which is not license for an employer to treat workers like personal property or their personal acolytes to their faith.

  • Larry

    It can easily be both.

    In their death throes, American theocrats are making more obvious plays for political and social power in order to preserve what power they have remaining.

  • Larry

    I have never seen polite respectful proselytizing efforts.

    The act is inherently offensive in nature. To insult and denigrate one’s personal beliefs in favor of adopting that of the proselytizer.

  • Larry

    The precedent is never applied equally. Entangling religion and political spheres in such a manner generally leads to discriminatory practices. It always seems to favor the majority faiths. Everyone else is expected to bend to “laws of general applicability”.

    The same Bible thumping Christians demanding an opt out for laws they find inconvenient expect to see minority faiths act without any accommodations to their religion. This is why you can get the intellectual dishonesty of Antonin Scalia deciding against religious rites concerning narcotic use (Unemployment Division v. Smith) but support accommodation for Hobby Lobby’s corporate beliefs.

    In essence you have pointed out the false nature of the “Hobby Lobby Argument”. Once you start carving out exceptions on shaky allegedly religious reasons for following various laws, religion becomes license to make one a law unto themselves.

  • Daniel Berry

    You have not answered my question: you have referred me to an English translation of a Greek text that includes a broadly applied word, “aresenokoites,” the definition of which even biblical scholars of every stripe are unable to agree upon because of the variety of applications the word has in different biblical manuscripts. That being the case, since you didn’t understand my question to you, ‘m quite sure that you don’t know the word’s definition.

    As to the word, “homosexual,” which you and others facilely throw around, that word did not exist until the 19th Century when it was coined by a German psychiatrist to describe a type of behavior that is not described anywhere in the bible – except, possibly, in the story of David and Jonathan.

    In my opinion, if you’re going to put yourself forward as an expert on biblical text, you ought at least to take the trouble to learn what language the texts were written in and what the texts actually say. But, hey–that’s just my opinion.

  • @Shawnie:

    Religion is dying as an idea. Millions are abandoning it.

    But the Christian fascists won’t let it go – they are tripling their efforts and pushing Jesus harder on the rest of us THROUGH LAWS to make sure we cannot leave it – without paying a penalty of some sort.

    Hobby Lobby is a single case in point which has already handed big money a way to fight increasing secularism – but there are hundreds of examples across the country which you are well aware of.

    The entire highly funded move toward Creationism replacing Science in several states will INCREASE the ignorance of science and indoctrinate children against thinking for themselves. These big money Evangelists are making a very concerted and transparently co-optive effort to ensure the churches have plenty of believers in the future.

    Religion has lost the argument. So it is using the law to shove Jesus on everyone at the expense of our freedom.

  • Karla

    Daniel Berry- We can just agree to disagree. Bible is clear people
    who still practice sin and that means any/all sin go to hell. Read
    1 Corinthians 6:9-12 and those other verses as well. The Bible is
    very clear that we all must Repent/follow Him. We must Repent!
    Christ came to fulfill the Law not to abolish it as many try to say
    so they can live how they want but that is not true. Any sin that
    people refuse to Repent of will send them to hell. Jesus said you
    are one of Mine only if you continue in My teachings/follow Me!
    Two guys were next to Jesus on the Cross. Only one guy went to
    heaven and that’s cause only one guy Repented/had a change of
    heart about his sin. Thank you for the input/feedback. God bless.

  • Daniel Berry

    but…but…not to pay for slaughtering people different from you is unpatriotic!!

  • Daniel Berry

    …and bully others with it.

  • Daniel Berry

    In a free society, good manners require that religion will not even be brought up in the workplace unless someone specifically asks an individual about their particular practice. In that case, it’s strictly a private conversation, just as a conversation about anything else intimate – and what could possibly be more intimate than one’s religious attitudes and beliefs?

  • Shawnie5

    If “millions” continue to abandon it then none of these efforts you’ve described (even if they existed) would last for very long. They would simply be legislated away, whether directly from the capitol or indirectly from the bench. You need to figure out exactly what it is you’re afraid of.

  • Shawnie5

    “…a broadly applied word, arsenokoites…”

    Well, you got that part right, at least.

  • “They would simply be legislated away”

    There is no democracy under this Corporate/Evangelical Theocratic Oligarchy. We are losing our freedoms every day despite the decline of religious people.
    The Koch brothers alone are financing more subversive nonsense than all the evangelicals in Alabama and Louisiana combined.

    Meanwhile family planning is being dismantled in Texas under new Evangelical Right Wing laws which needlessly require a hospital doctor in every family planning clinic – a ridiculous requirement! designed only to subvert the constitution. The Evangelical Right has bought and paid for all the Republicans and they are carrying out Right Wing fascist Christian policies day after day.

    Creationism is being taught as the legal system looks the other way.

    Corporate Evangelical Right Wing money is bringing corruption and dishonesty and subverting the will of the people. The masses are being outspent! We can’t BUY BACK our politicians when we need them the MOST!

  • Shawnie5

    “…laws which needlessly require a hospital doctor in every family planning clinic – a ridiculous requirement! designed only to subvert the constitution.”

    Those laws apply to clinics that perform abortions, as well as to any outpatient establishment that provides surgical services. The point is to have an immediately available physician with hospital admitting privileges in the event of a complication. So you want a special exemption for abortion clinics? Why?

    I can’t even get my flu shot covered unless it’s at a place with a registered nurse on duty. I think you’re reading a “Christian conspiracy” into an overall greater trend toward over-regulation–with which “progressives” never seem to have a problem any other time.

    “Corporate Evangelical Right Wing money is bringing corruption and dishonesty and subverting the will of the people.”

    LOL! This from the same camp that claimed the “will of the people” didn’t matter when it came to gay marriage. All that “corporate evangelical right wing money,” since it’s running everything and all, should have been able to turn that mess around, shouldn’t it?ll

    Go take a pill, for crying out loud.

  • Larry

    “…no one knows what it meant. I freely admit that it could have been taken as a reference to homosexual sex. But given the scarcity of evidence and the several contexts just analyzed, in which arsenokoités appears to refer to some particular kind of economic exploitation, no one should be allowed to get away with claiming that “of course” the term refers to “men who have sex with other men.” ”
    -Dale B. Martin, Woolsey Professor of Religious Studies at Yale University

  • Larry

    Are you claiming now to be an expert in medical regulations and standards now?

    Even the proponents of those additional requirements know the “health and safety” justifications are utter bullcrap. They acknowledge it is meant as a de facto abortion ban.

    You cannot find a supporter of it who does not go off on an anti-choice rant. If the legitimate purpose was for health and safety, then it would not have come from conservatives. People who are unconcerned with the actual function and medical efficacy of the abortion procedures.

    Every professional medical organization in the state opposed the law. People who have a genuine good faith concern in ensuring health and safety. Their opinion is far more credible on the subject than a bunch of Texas conservative politicians.

  • @Shawnie,

    “So you want a special exemption for abortion clinics? Why?”

    Requiring a Hospital surgeon to be present in every Abortion clinic is like requiring a Gourmet Chef at every McDonalds!!!
    This is a ridiculously simple procedure.

    These clinics were functioning absolutely fine, abortion has been done safely and LAWFULLY throughout Texas for years by doctors who knew what they were doing!

    And now they are all closing! There are only 4 clinics in the entire state of Texas now!

    Your support of the Government’s intrusion on a woman’s private decision over what she can do with her body is to support the destruction of a Constitutionally protected right.
    It is an attack on women as well as endorsement of Government ownership over any person’s body.

    Even though your blood could save a life, the Government does not have the right to show up at your door and TAKE THAT BLOOD FROM YOU! They cannot come and take your extra kidney just because it would save someone’s life!

    The Government does not have the right to force a woman to do things with her Uterus which she does not want to do!

    You are handing the government such rights as you endorse the Government’s ownership of a human body!

    For peace and Separation of Church and State

  • Shawnie5


    Funnily enough, Yale was Boswell’s old turf.

    Anyway, on to other scriptural scholars:

    “Paul has in fact adopted or fashioned a term which is little more than a substantival transcript from Leviticus (LXX) and which speaks
    simply of males sleeping with males.” — David Wright, dean of the Divinity School of Edinburgh University.

    “The word, arsenokoitai., is not found in any extant Greek text earlier than I Corinthians. Some scholars have suggested that its meaning is uncertain, but Robin Scroggs has shown that the word is a translation of the Hebrew mishkav zakur (“lying with the male), derived directly from Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 and used in rabbinic texts to refer to homosexual intercourse. The Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) of Leviticus 20:13 reads, “Whoever lies with a man as with a woman [meta arsenos koiten gynaikos], they have both done an abomination.” This is almost certainly the idiom from which the noun arsenokoitai was coined. Thus, Paul’s use of the term presupposes and reaffirms the holiness code’s condemnation of homosexual acts. This is not a controversial point in Paul’s argument; the letter gives no evidence that anyone at Corinth was arguing for the acceptance of same-sex erotic activity. Paul simply assumes that his readers will share his conviction that those who indulge in homosexual activity are “wrongdoers” (adikoi, literally “unrighteous”), along with other sorts of offenders in his list.” — Dr. Richard B. Hays, Dean and the George Washington Ivey Professor of New Testament at Duke Divinity School,

    “Paul’s wholesale attack on Greco-Roman culture makes better sense if, like Josephus and Philo, he lumps all forms of same-sex eros together as a mark of Gentile decadence,” including committed relationships by those homoerotically oriented.” — Dr. William R. Schoedel, professor emeritus University of Illinois

    “According to [one] interpretation, Paul’s words were not directed at “bona fide” homosexuals in committed relationships. But such a reading, however well-intentioned, seems strained and unhistorical. Nowhere does Paul or any other Jewish writer of this period imply the least acceptance of same-sex relations under any circumstance. The idea that homosexuals might be redeemed by mutual devotion would have been wholly foreign to Paul or any other Jew or early Christian.” — Louis Cromption ( you can look him up for yourself 🙂 )

    “With regard to arsenokoitai note: (a) clear connections of this word to the absolute Levitical prohibitions of man-male intercourse (18:22; 20:13), evident from the fact that the word, exclusively used in Jewish and Christian contexts until late in antiquity, was formulated directly from the Levitical prohibitions, that ancient rabbis used a parallel Hebrew term, mishkav zakur (“lying with a male”), to apply to all men-male sexual bonds, and that 1 Tim 1:10 explicitly connects opposition to this vice (among other vices) to the law of Moses; (b) early Judaism’s univocal interpretation of the Levitical prohibitions against men-male intercourse as allowing only sexual relations between a man and a woman (e.g., Josephus, Philo, the rabbis); (c) the singular use of arsenokoites and related words subsequent to Paul in connection with male-male intercourse per se, without limitation to pederasts or clients of cult prostitutes; (d) the implications of the context of 1 Corinthians 5-7, given the parallel case of adult, consensual incest in ch. 5, the assumption of consent in the vice list in 6:9-10, the citation of Gen 2:24 in 1 Cor 6:16 (see also 11:7-9, 12), and the presumption everywhere in ch. 7 that sex is confined to male-female marriage; and (e) the fact that the Greco-Roman milieu considered it worse for a man to have sex with another adult male than with a boy because the former had left behind his “softness.” — Dr. Robert Gagnon, Associate Professor of New Testament at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary.

    Did you look up the Koine Greek compound words with “koite” yet?

  • Dave V


    Excuse me for butting in.

    No pun intended.

  • Dave V

    @ Daniel Berry Oct 30, 2014 at 3:18 pm
    …and bully others with it.

    if anyone being bullied is highlighted in our 21st century town square, it is the Christians.

  • Shawnie5

    You’re excused for butting in, but it doesn’t mean pederest– it subsumes that word. All pederests were arsenokoites, but not all arsenokoites were pederests.

  • Larry

    Aw poor baby. You have to follow the same rules as everyone else. Nobody thinks you are special because you thump a Bible. Do you need a diaper change?

  • Danny

    “Warren, who is the chairman of Weldaloy Products Company, also described starting Bible studies for employees at his secular company. “When I started the Bible studies I did a tally, and we had three people in the company who were professing believing Christians,” he said, explaining that the company hired Christians and non-Christians alike. He added, “Today, out of roughly 100 employees we have only 20 or 25 (people) who are not yet Christians.”

    This brings me to wonder if people are proclaiming to be Christians because they actually believe? Or because they think its job protection to do so?
    If my boss started a specific type of group, and I wanted to move up, or just get an edge over those in case layoffs came, I would seriously consider joining the group, even if it was something I wasnt actually believer in. Its called survival.

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  • Nessa

    I LOVE this. I do want it printed on shirt!

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